Alien Biosphere Evolution #7: Deep Body Patterning (Evo-Devo)

[@samuelmincarelli5051]

This is perhaps the most underated channel on yt.

[@gabrielnewcomer2866]

I could not possibly agree more! Where else can you learn of morphogens? This answers questions I've been pursuing for years!

[@Phrenotopia]

Thank you both! There's plenty on hox genes in everything from book form to youtube videos. However, I noticed the format can become very technical and detail-oriented, and it's often not presented in an engaging way, notable exceptions notwithstanding. The advantage of my angle by looking at universal principles for life in the universe at large , is that I can generalize, simplify and skip over the details for the time being. And also I like to visualize the heck out of my musings. 😄

[@Phrenotopia]

BTW I recently got the book by Sean Carroll titled "Endless Forms Most Beautiful: The New Science of Evo Devo and the Making of the Animal Kingdom" from 2005. I have just started reading it, but should have done so years ago, since the insights it popularizes are so foundational. I can already see that a lot of the same things that I highlight in my videos were already described in a more extensive way there. So if a book format works for you, I can highly recommend that one.

[@niklasmolen4753]

This kind of deep analysis of a narrow topic is difficult to reach a wide audience. The video has high production quality and deserves more viewers.

[@xuanluu4873]

@@Phrenotopia so are you fine with your position on youtube?

[@tonio103683]

15:10 A mechanic idea I had for a spore-like game is that removing parts should costs as much as adding them… and adding parts would basically be equivalent to removdeling parts instead of sticking them to the body.

[@Phrenotopia]

You should check out Thrive by Revolutionary Games Studios. It's work in progress, and maybe we could come up with a better creature designer in that evolution simulation game.

[@tonio103683]

@@Phrenotopia I already know about it, but thanks still. I really hope they will be able to go up at least the "creature" stage.

[@animationspace8550]

@@tonio103683 the creature stage and the cell stage are basically the same thing

[@Dedicatedfollower467]

Dude this series is one of the most helpful things I have ever found. *No one* else talks about how to evolve speculative aliens with this kind of detail, scientific accuracy, and ease-of-understanding for the average person. I love every episode that I've seen so far and I can't wait for the rest!

[@Internet_Simian]

If you like this series, you shoud go to check out Biblaridion's alien biospheres playlist. He does an especulative evolution exercise in which he creates two main animal clades on a ficticious planet, quite scientifically accurate and interesting

[@ronjayrose9706]

Biblaridion and some other KZbinr's make videos on speculative alien biology

[@tylerdruskoff9689]

@@Internet_Simian I love that guy. Do you know any other KZbinrs who do similar things?

[@user-ft3jq5vi2l]

@@tylerdruskoff9689 there's a guy called Proyect Rose who's also making a series with very high quality.

[@CubeSavvy]

When playing through Spore I always tried to modify my creature and cell stage species one change at a time and to do so with deliberate intent and meticulous consideration so as to better mirror natural selection's sluggish pace. :D Thank you for another great video!

[@scptime1188]

Same! I tried to make humams from a quadraped, from cell to space stage. Didn't go too bad, but the changes i made were definitely random tbh. I essentailly made convergent evolution

[@Phrenotopia]

Awesome tip! I do like Spore, but it was a disappointment as an evolution simulator. I hope we can make Thrive by Revolutionary Games more interesting eventually.

[@CubeSavvy]

@@Phrenotopia Yes! Thank you also for your Thrive gameplay video! I am enthralled that such a scientifically modeled game is gaining popularity.

[@samuelmincarelli5051]

In my interpretation, I believe the golden tokens signifying the acquisition of a new part represent mutation. The user is the judge of whether they are an improvement, or adaption, or are worse than the previous design, thus being selected out and not seen. The dna currency is a buffer to prohibit the creature from adapting too quickly and unrealistically. With this consideration, Spore becomes a more simplified version of real evolution. Edit: grammar

[@Jpteryx]

It was almost surreal seeing A Capella Science and Spore referenced.

[@Legospasm]

How dare you trick me into learning so much biology!

[@atanumaiti578]

This video has enlightened me to create an evolution simulator of my own.

[@Phrenotopia]

I'm actually working on that myself, so if you are patient, I'll open it for contributions. :-)

[@TheAnton4life]

I like how this series somehow keeps getting more complex while becoming more simple at the same time. I guess its cool seeing just how powerful of an effect the fundamental parts of evolution and life have on its overall structure. Really looking forward to the next one

[@Simon-ow6td]

This is in my top 5 channels. I tend to forget it exist now and then, but am so happy every time I see a new video pop up in my notifications. They are so incredibly well made and informative. They really provide a very holistic and easily digestible understanding of the entire history of the general principles of life and evolution one step at the time. Just wonderful work!

[@Phrenotopia]

Wow, thank you!

[@Simon-ow6td]

@@Phrenotopia Thank you for your work! It is a pleasure to watch and learn! :)

[@OzoneTheLynx]

14:00 I love that song. Well all their songs really. This video is is interesting too though 😉

[@ooraculo223]

This is the best video that i saw in KZbin until now,Thank you very much 👏👏

[@dproduzioni]

This guy is brilliant, I hope he does teaching for a living, it would have been awesome if I've had a teacher like him

[@irrelevantirrelevant7332]

A criminally underrated channel indeed. I am looking forward to seeing more of this series! I really like your educational style and editing. Perhaps an idea to bring even more depth to your series: In every video you refer to "metaphysical" concepts like gravity, evolution, bilateralism, axis etc. Those things are in accordance to our current understanding of physics and are in my understanding self evident and provable. You could point out that these concepts apply everywhere anytime and are fundamental properties and inherent logic of our universe. Oh, and Platon wrote an entire book about that. So might be interesting, but just a humble suggestion.

[@icantfeelmylegs9329]

this is easily the most interesting series ive seen in like forever. its just cool learning biology is normally boring but THIS... this is the good stuff

[@06081958]

underrated channel

[@telekinesys7025]

Fantastic, as ususal! I may need to watch the vid once more to ensure that I have understood everything but that is definitively more that worth it! Keep up the great work!

[@Dragrath1]

Well done showing how emergent complex behavior can arise from simple rules superimposed it never ceases to fascinate me really. glad to see you mention cnidarians when it came to hox genes as that was a real unexpected surprise it is also worth noting that their appears to be a far greater complexity at the base of bilateria will be interesting to see where that goes. One thing that might be worth discussing is how do other multicellular organisms approach this after all I have read somewhere that there are some striking similarities between sponge development and choanoflagellate coordination with tumor formation/development suggesting there may be a link. So it is possible a different tweak or coordination might be out there in parameter space. Doesn't change the underlying principal for the need to differentiate at least to our knowledge with with a limited sample size it is hard to say for sure.

[@lexibyday9504]

This is specifically about earth analogus life but lets speculate a bit. If a lifeform developed in the vacuum of space, presumably from molecules drifting about in a nebula or cosmic dust cloud, they would have no gravity to orient themselves by. So would these life forms have bilatteral symetry? Would they have some other kind of symetry? Or would they be completely asymetrical in every direction?

[@Jpteryx]

If they move, or if they orbit an energy source, they will probably have at least a front and a back, with the front being the direction they move in or the side facing the energy source.

[@kevinpeters6709]

This is why I love Thrive... even if the first stage isn’t finished. It forces you to think about this stuff.

[@lapinranger7405]

This Video Was Amazing i May become my favorite video of internet thank you a lot for your work Amazing on so many levels

[@Phrenotopia]

Wow thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Triliton]

I need to re-watch the complete video once i get home from work. So far as ive seen was great!

[@Iamwolf134]

Evolution is also a series of iterative adaptations to any given environment.

[@jtktomb8598]

As a biology student, this video was very helpfull and extremely interesting, the animations were also very well made. Can't wait for the next episode !

[@Phrenotopia]

Glad it was helpful!

[@keynadaby]

Your channel is so amazing, talking from Brazil ❤️🇧🇷

[@Phrenotopia]

Glad you enjoy it! Thank you!

[@guilhermeduarte7192]

I found this series by chance and I'm addicted! This is soooo good, so instructive! I'm a fantasy worldbuilder myself, so I could just take the safe route and put an extra pair of legs in a horse and call it a horcey if I wanted to make different creatures. However, speculative biology is somehting that has caught my attention some for some months now and I was not sure how to begin. Thanks for this rich content, and please keep it up!

[@Phrenotopia]

Welcome aboard!

[@AG-hf1ww]

I'm always amazed by how in-depth these are. Thank you again for another amazing video!

[@thelaughinghyenas8465]

I did enjoy this and look forward to seeing how you tie it all together. This is the sort of content from you that I really enjoy.

[@Phrenotopia]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@d4ry7d4vid2]

I love your content!!!

[@zs9652]

Very good video, Phrenotopia. Thank you for creating it.

[@Phrenotopia]

My pleasure!

[@PedanticNo1]

I hope you continue your great work here, this is amazing.

[@johnroesch2159]

The deep body pattern you describe in your video is structuralism and is explained by Dr. Michael J. Denton in his book 'Nature’s Destiny: How the laws of biology reveal purpose in the universe'. The concept of structuralism is also explained by Dr. Simon Conway Morris in his books 'Life's Solution: Inevitable Humans in a Lonely Universe' and 'Runes of Evolution: How the Universe became Self-Aware'. These books should be added to your list of books listed above.

[@mihajlojovanovic7651]

this channel gives me life

[@PhilosoShysGameChannel]

PHRENOMYTHIC BEST BIOLOGIST, HOO-AH!

[@MRCOLOURfilld]

There is a great series on youtube on Biblaridian s youtube channel on creating an alien biosphere

[@fausthanos6947]

Do other multicellular beings like Plants or Fungi have their Morphogens too? Though their "cellogy" is way more simple than animaloids. 14:21 nah not good not good!😁

[@Phrenotopia]

Good question actually. Vascular plants have a very different way of growing than animals, but they do have chemicals, often called plant hormones, that control this process. An animal is a delimited clumps of tissues that grows sort of like a water balloon does. Plants just expand and branch out in specific directions from a single point (the seed). So it's a very different process.

[@fausthanos6947]

Good point! Plants just grow in 1 (or 2) directions, so it also makes easier to regenerate bigger body parts than a animal could. Though animal are more complex(more tissue types) and dont grow as plants, which just grow "up". One type of plant morphogen could be the one which makes the plant grow in the direction of light, maybe? Smaller channels are the best! They give a lot more importance to the fans and that is why they respond and care about your opinion, in addition to working hard and having higher quality work, unlike youtubers with many subscribers who only want views and money, in which each individual fan does not matter much. But I still think that you deserve more subscribers Thanks for the answer!

[@Phrenotopia]

Thanks! You could search the internet for phytohormones aka plant growth regulators for more info.

[@aleksitjvladica.]

I waited for this for so long! Thank you so much for creating it!

[@Phrenotopia]

My pleasure!

[@aleksitjvladica.]

Awwww

[@deathbyseatoast8854]

thanks for the new vid! always a pleasure to see more content from you.

[@Phrenotopia]

Thanks! More to come!

[@capacamaru]

Loving this series! Great work!

[@Phrenotopia]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@aquaworldbuilder6227]

Thanks, this really helps with my world!!!

[@Phrenotopia]

Glad to hear that!

[@mnrvaprjct]

we need that evolution episode #8

[@Phrenotopia]

Working on it. Check Twitter for updates or the community tab.

[@womtv69]

Could not the third example at 4:43 represent Flatworms(Acoelomorpha, Xenoturbellida, Platyhelminthes) or Proarticulata(Dickinsonia)? And the second example Petalonomae like Charnia?

[@rzrx1337]

Nice

[@Phrenotopia]

Thanks!!!

[@mnrvaprjct]

have been waiting for this one

[@droopsmoop]

I already know that this is gonna be good

[@danthiel8623]

Interesting 🧐🤔

[@NA-AN]

Nice.

[@mechamudskipper]

interesting

[@randomuser5443]

I’m 36 minutes late. Time to enjoy

[@wormthirtyfour]

my body is ready

[@wojtekimbier]

Glad to have stumbled into this channel thanks to revolutionary games' Thrive

[@xuanluu4873]

So how many phylum body plans are you going to cover for this series?

[@Phrenotopia]

ALL of them!!! ;)

[@xuanluu4873]

@@Phrenotopia so the 9 major phylums? Nice!

[@atanumaiti578]

In your previous video (part6) you said that there is another way to evolve cells. When is that video coming

[@Phrenotopia]

In the future... I still got a lot of ground to cover.

[@worldbuildingjuice]

i really enjoyed the video. i just want to comment some constructive criticism. first, i don't think you gave a definition of morphogens. as far as i remember you just started talking about them, and i even went back a couple seconds to see if i missed something but i don't think i did. i figured from the rest of the video what it means, but it would've been better to be given a definition. second, i don't think you mentioned why/how bilateral symmetry would evolve/be selected for. maybe you didn't care to, but you mentioned it like it's a given and maybe you shouldn't have. idk i feel that perhaps it would've helped if you'd've said one or two sentences about it just to explain real quick why it would happen. otherwise, great video i really enjoyed it. keep it up!

[@Phrenotopia]

Thanks and I'm sorry if I didn't get this across clearly enough. When disseminating these complex subjects, I have to cut corners sometimes and skim through a lot of stuff. From 5:20 I did state these were "special signal molecules" that "typically are special regulator proteins able to turn genes on or off". With regards to bilateral symmetry, I explained its evolution in an earlier video: Episode # 2 at around 7 minutes in with "directional movement". I hope that makes matters more clear.

[@worldbuildingjuice]

@@Phrenotopia oh yeah i see now. I understand you need to cut corners, i get that. I do see now that you do explain what morphogens are. And i guess i forgot you explained bilateral symmetry before. Whoops. Anyway i hope youre proud of your videos bc theyre extremely well done. Thank you!

[@doodelay]

This is awesome! Do you have a team that helps draw everything, write, research and create music?

[@Phrenotopia]

I do everything myself, but also pull a lot of (non-copyrighted) stuff from the internet.

[@thumper8684]

Can you have rotational symmetry without lateral symmetry?

[@anonymoususer6251]

When will the next video be here...... I realy like this series

[@PoleTooke]

What about rogue planets that rely on self heating and don't have a sun?

[@DundG]

If someone's asks why alien live would be anything but similar to ours I have now many arguments like the symmetries and how a directionaol movement gives creation to a head.

[@danthiel8623]

Everything seem to be pretty much the same but is pretty nice 👍

[@MixMasterJ1221]

How about we get a real evolution simulator game. Could be very fun, you get to make little changes every time period, and eventually evolve a new species! Could be cool.

[@grubbybum3614]

Could you please interrupt this series to do a video on how important fire 🔥 is for high-intellegence to occur? Like is it even possible for a water dwelling species (no matter how clever they are) to manipulate their environment? I feel like if a species doesn't have oxygen atmosphere like us, then they will never manipulative minerals into tools, weapons or even space craft.

[@Phrenotopia]

I've got too many other projects and things I want to do videos on, but I will get to this particular question too eventually. Octopuses are highly intelligent invertebrates that can build shelters and manipulate their environment in many ways. Dolphins do also have the intelligence to handle objects, also in nature, where they often pick up stuff like seaweed or other things to play around with. By whipping their tails over shallow bottoms, they can create walls of suspended sand, trapping fish schools inside. So they certainly have the wits to make innovative use of materials, but without hands or even fire, they may forever be hampered in progressing further. I'm actually planning a video on cetaceans like that, but what if they had something like hands. :-)

[@grubbybum3614]

@@Phrenotopia awesome, no rush 😎

[@vernaute2803]

If we know how complex body plans arise from the distribution of morphogens, how does the machinery that dictates the distribution of morphogens arise?

[@vernaute2803]

Is that process the fact of evolution itself?

[@Phrenotopia]

In the end, these are all peptides produced by DNA so subject to the same processes of mutation and selection.

[@petersmythe6462]

I kinda want to design something that uses signals and neurocytes as Morphogens in cell lab now.

[@Phrenotopia]

I'm working on something that may be interested in then. :-) More to follow later.

[@xenotundra3346]

8:27 France jumpscare

[@ekszentrik]

Just when I think I can have a week without an existential crisis this video comes along and made me question: what the fuck are lifeforms to begin with? Some chemistry driven by factors like genes that were entirely unknown to ALL lifeforms until barely a few decades ago! How weird is it that lifeforms themselves (except for humans) have absolutely no clue what mechanisms allow them to exist? More arguments for life simply being chemistry gone absolutely bonkers. Nothing has actually a name. Can we appreciate this fact for a moment? Literally nothing in the universe was named or defined before humans came along. Everything ultra-mega-complex just happened because it happened, there was not a SINGLE thought behind ANY of it until us. And what the fuck is existence anyway? Why am I, a hypercomplicated chemistry reaction, not simply a consciousless robot, why this superfluous sensations of actually phenomenally seeing and experiencing stuff? Roombas work fine without! Why even existence? And what the

[@Phrenotopia]

Explore panpsychism. 😉

[@danthiel8623]

Biblaridion vibes here

[@joratto2833]

Could not click on this fast enough

[@petersmythe6462]

"To form a peduncle." This is known as Alsace-Lorraine.

[@gendalfgray7889]

Isnt tbese shapes coded by dna? Dna is data array?

[@Phrenotopia]

Yes indeed

[@hiddenhist]

👍🏿

[@Phrenotopia]

✊🏻

[@Zalidia]

No matter how many times i watch this i still don't understand

[@vernonlynn5028]

i got a game i think you like it is in other waters

[@Phrenotopia]

That does indeed appear to be something I'd like! Thanks for the tip!

[@angelorasmijn7306]

Comment. 👋🏼

[@Phrenotopia]

Dank je! 😉

[@petruraciula9056]

Comment on my way out

[@tylerdruskoff9689]

At 8:30 France had already started their plan for world domination

[@finnaustin4002]

Nitpick, but it's only a co-ordinate with two or more axes

[@Phrenotopia]

With each morphogen a new coordinate is introduced.

[@finnaustin4002]

@@Phrenotopia I'm just being semantic, technically it isn't co-ordinate with only one morphogen, which is pretty redundant anyway because it seems as though all animals have multiple axes of morphogens

[@Phrenotopia]

It is a coordinate also in a single dimension, alternatively known as a number line.

[@glenn_r_frank_author]

So, you are saying that everyone (no matter what planet they are from) has a mouth on them, and an A hole. Some things never change

[@mosterchife6045]

8:28 ngl looks kinda like a backwards France flag

[@rogermon3s141]

First

[@Potato-pq5ez]

first

[@volcryndarkstar]

1:36 Looks like someone's about to get pregnant

[@Sailorman-xp9nf]

You are obviously a smart guy, but you’re totally in the weeds and well off the topic that you started off discussing which was would aliens look like humans? This is video seven and you are still in microbiology. It’s much more informative to think about this issue from the other end. Defining intelligence in aliens or even humans ha ha is challenging so let’s just cut to the chase and say intelligence of a species is defined as pass or fail: reaching and traveling through outer space. To reach this level of technology Implementation a species needs several things, good brain, hands with manual dexterity, sensory organs that focus their attention on the hands, A physical structure that is capable of doing significant work of lifting and moving things and ability to exist in a world that has fire. It’s not that evolution is deterministic in moving towards a human form it’s just that the human form and the environment that it involved was conducive to moving up the technological ladder. Creatures in water, atmosphere, cold methane worlds, etc. could not move up the tactical ladder because they would not have fire, they could not refine metals, they could not build computer chips. So what could work? You’re seven videos into your analysis and haven’t offered one idea yet. For land bearing animals, your analysis of insectoids as not really workable at the larger scale was informative. Other alternatives are also likely unworkable: a horse or pig with extra arms would be inefficient and not well-suited to doing heavy labor AND having fine motor skills. The dinosaur body type is probably the most prevalent alternative to humans but again not well-suited for technological accomplishment, lacking ability to do heavy labor, fine motor skills, and sensory organs are in the wrong location. Perhaps these could be remedied by shrinking the tail, enlarging the arms, improving the hands, and moving the eyes to the forefront, but then you basically have a humanoid. So let’s start with the end in mind to come up with a few ideas that pass the technological implementation test.

[@murderyoutubeworkersandceos]

like they said in Mass Effect: Evolution seems to favour those, who can grab a gun. Its gonna be a long time til we get to explore arms in this series, but i already wanna talk about th "predator" alien from that movie. Whn it takes off its mask, u get th pov shot of the alien seeing nothing, but red and only the mask allows it to filter and parse the visual data. How the fuck did an almost blind alien get to build such a sophisticated tool?!