You're WRONG about the Grubs - Season 14 Jungle

[@matthewlovesyou4902]

My favourite type of league content is good players/coaches with a very relaxed tone doing a 2-4 minute video explaining a common misconception by showing an example or pulling up stats

[@PinkeySuavo]

i didnt even know about this misconception

[@webignar]

2:31 Gotta love getting ping restricted in practice tool. Great content, thanks for the info!!

[@jdogsful]

same as the afk warning

[@WolfmanluPurpleclaw]

And this is why I am subscribed, accurate information, short and concise. Have a great day man.

[@zanebruce2546]

Was not aware of this argument, but I'm here for the knowledge vids

[@kapparooni8168]

Stumbled upon your channel and I want to say it's so far fantastic, really well put together information

[@Phylaris]

Just resumed making videos a few days ago after a really long hiatus, so hopefully I'll have more relevant things to watch soon.

[@kapparooni8168]

@@Phylaris I hope so, I will for sure stay tuned for even more

[@X33Ultras0und]

I'm glad this was cleared up, I thought it work out like "the first grub of the first spawn set gives the bonus 80" so if only two or one is left, then you'll only get 75, not 70+80. Grubs is a very slow camp to clear too. I often get dragon about 3 seconds after or 4 seconds before the enemy gets all 3 grubs (even slower if they don't have 2 smite charges).

[@Phylaris]

Grub take speed depends heavily on whether they're first spawn or second spawn grubs, and the jungler's amount of AOE. A champ like Hecarim will solo first spawn grubs in ~15 seconds. Second spawn grubs are WAY tankier (each Grub has +1000 HP or more, which also converts to more shielding), and incredibly slow and painful to take on single-target junglers. Meanwhile, second Drake barely has any more HP than first Drake.

[@zachariastsampasidis8880]

​@@Phylarisyeah unless you got super fed or have insane aoe clear it feels super bait to try to full clear grubs early

[@FantasticKruH]

Warwick without tiamat ):

[@SpectraP12]

And that's why belveth only gets one coral from grubs, not 3

[@NurseJoe]

Phylaris doing some of the best info content as always. You've helped me so much climbing over the years that you probably don't even know. Thank you for what you are doing.

[@Phylaris]

Thanks for the kind words.

[@iSlasheR22]

I missed your videos so much was so happy to see new ones in my sub page. Hope to see more soon and maybe the return of the clear guides 👀

[@DonTheCrown]

nice video, always a fan of people actually testing stuff more than once to figure out whats going on 👍

[@onemoment6769]

So what I'm getting from this is that if, say I'm a jgler that can't clear grubs well, I could clear one and get that experience buff, leave before they rotate, and go back to my clear. If I do this on the second grub spawn, I can deny a stronger early game jgler that full grub buff.

[@Phylaris]

You can do this yeah, if it's not a large detour. You can also easily just drop by and smitesteal one sometimes, since enemy jg doesn't have a Smite for each grub. That's not to say you should always do this, but it is a consideration.

[@yuukifenia1611]

The only argument I've seen that made sense for this scenario was getting the first grub with the grub clear and hitting level 6 before the enemy Jg to win the fight and take the rest. The exp discussion always confused me for the reasons you stated but I only recently started to play Jg again so I wasn't aware. Very informative and well paced video! This + the Grub clear were hugely helpful even if they aren't always applicable.

[@Hydrodictyon]

I just started League, learned about grub path, then got randomly tossed into Jungle. First thing I noticed was the dissonance: people on the interned were tearing their throats telling me I gotta hit like level 6 with grubs EAZY, while no, I didn’t even cross 4. But I’m like acc lv14, maybe I’m dumb? Well, it’s now that I learned that I am, in fact, just observant.

[@synnoh4147]

This is a very interesting thing that I hadn’t heard of before. However, regardless of whether or not they’re worth a lot of xp, it still seems like getting all 3 grubs, especially from the first spawn early, and sometimes even from the second spawn to some degree, is incredibly powerful and worth fighting for if you have the ability to push lanes, due to it being true damage to turrets that helps you get more plates for every single team member(Of course, not every team member is going to be able to push up and take them consistently, but its more the strength of it early feels a lot more noticeable than say a first dragon imo)

[@Phylaris]

Oh naturally yeah - the buff is really powerful in the right spots. It's just good to be able to evaluate the value of a Grub take (or partial Grub take) holistically, since the potential Gold/EXP payoff is always going to be a large component of any play as well, especially early in the game when you don't have a whole lot of it.

[@NeoNoctem148]

very happy to see that you upload again been missing the videos!

[@jonathanrussell8998]

This was some very interesting info, thanks! Didn’t know about all the jungle exp shenanigans. I never even knew about the whole EXP thing though, I only consider the grubs high worth because the challenger player I watch says that having the voidmites is extremely good (I think he said one time that if a team gets all 6 grubs it’s like a 90% win rate but IDK if that was just high elo) And maybe that’s also kind of a cause and effect thing like, if your team is able to get all 6 grubs they’re probably better than the enemy team, but still.

[@DrenkoApenax]

welcome back king

[@Zolf3r]

really usefull info nice short focused video, enjoyable content, well done.

[@thomasnguyen4427]

ah. I didn’t even know that +150 for your VERY FIRST camp was a thing to guarantee the level up. now I know why I felt disconnect from what those content creators said versus reality.

[@Maqnuz_]

I also noticed that when playing Bel'Veth at or after lvl6, she gets a Void Coral from only one Grub.

[@Phylaris]

Yep, same reason. Only the first Grubby you kill will count as an Epic.

[@kittensarecool]

So glad you are back keep it up absolutely love you

[@pychnektv]

thanks for the video, I've seen a lot of people saying it was worth 300 exp

[@AlphadystTFT]

"Wait I'm wrong" made me wheeze

[@Pigraider268]

I don't know what this video is about, but as a Cait main I love Grubbs 💜🐛🐛🐛

[@Phylaris]

And the Grubs love you.

[@FzFrost]

Very usefull information to keep in mind nice :)

[@TheMycelle]

This deserve to be pinned on the homepage client . 100% good info

[@sampines]

this video is an easy subscribe for me. Great content 10/10 would recommend. No, I am not a bot

[@Julez3133]

dude that hec skin is so clean

[@Phylaris]

Yeah it really is. I think the base skin looks better than all the chromas too. The only thing I don't like is the feet...they're like flat little diamonds.

[@justv7536]

Still going to have a monkey fight for these

[@citizen.spleen]

as a toplaner, thx for sharing !

[@alesturon502]

ganking bot and than going dragon first is the best way now... bonus points if you somehow make it to grubs in time and take at least one

[@kalil6464]

Love the content, glad to see you back, can You do a Tarzan Graves video? i want to learn why hes top 1 KR

[@garagavia]

It worked the way I thought, good to know.

[@peterpan2687]

Great video. Quick question about the Grubs: Does it announce everytime I kill a Grub like shows on the right side of screen to everyone or does it only show when i kill all of them?

[@Phylaris]

If you're not on vision, then only when all the Grubs are finished.

[@peterpan2687]

@@Phylaris I see. Thanks for instant response!

[@PinkeySuavo]

@@Phylaris However, you can see in the "TAB" if the number increases. If you tab and see "1" they are most probably taking it. You can keep looking, if it jumps to 2 then you're sure that they are at it. Not many people know about it and it's crucial just to run there or drake or some gank when you see "1" cause it just means they just started.

[@veno2195]

And that's why u da goat P

[@marianogenco673]

I would reverse the order of the camps. Because the larvae crab is going to be done and gives vision to the enemy. I understand that the path you recommend is safer, even so it is very compromising to give a lot of information in the early game for the other jungler. Generally I notice that it is always larvae per dragon... To avoid this, the path should be reversed and priority should be given to a single larva. Not at 3.

[@Andrea-wr5wd]

similarly Cho'Gath R only stacks on the first void grub,if you eat another without making them respawn it won't give another stack though it might partially be a bug

[@Phylaris]

Not a bug - stuff like Bel works the same way. Only that first Grub counts as an epic.

[@olivoliv-cr8om]

Also, belveth only gets one void coral from the grubs, from the first one she kills

[@Rayonnant_style]

In practice, people who are misinformed about this tend to smite grub 1, like it's drag/baron, leaving themselves open to being smite stolen on 2 or 3. Now that we know grub 1 isn't particularly special, we can at least 50/50 contest 2 or 3 by saving smite.

[@obitooftheworld6761]

Thanks for the info. From time to time I still see junglers who do not prioritize at lvl5 this crucialest camp of league

[@lightdk6321]

Phylaris is a genius

[@newbie2k477]

Very good video

[@eyesee5413]

God like content my dude.

[@jaycee6764]

thanks for this

[@algebraizt]

I love the new grubs because its an absolute Thunderdome when they spawn and its hilarious. Help me secure scuttle crab? Nah I'm farming. Hey lets take dragon its free? Lol, no, we're recalling go solo it smiteless. Grubs? I mean they're okay I guess..guys? Top, mid and support all bringing their steel chairs to the river minute 5 and decide the entire game.

[@Seige57]

@Phylaris So the first one of those three gives you a bonus. When the second batch of three grubs spawn, does the first one of those give large monster bonus as well? Or do you only get that bonus once per game, once per all six grubs?

[@Phylaris]

Second spawn is a separate camp. You can get the bonus again.

[@zera2314]

Lets be honest. The chances of an enemy jungler leaving one or two grubs up after killing one of three is low unless you happen to contest it while they are doing them and you manage to snag a grub kill. The logic of getting "the first grub" still ends up being sound because you want to kill all of them if you can or risk losing them or die trying to get them.

[@Phylaris]

It's for situations where there's a contest for Grubs. Often what happens is the junglers will compromise their teamfight positions to try to secure Smite once the first Grub gets low, thinking that's the most important Grub. In reality that's not necessary at all, and you can let the first Grub go and simply guaranteed Smite the second, since the enemy jungler already Smited the first Grub.

[@danielshamlian2800]

So you're saying, if I kill each grub first as my first camp of the game, while killing each of the grubs first, then I'll end up with 915 exp for one camp... I can't wait to be the first one to use this a few times

[@DanielGreis1]

I have never heard about this exp thing anyways

[@ggShini]

Great vid :)

[@DaemonFranks]

Love your content.

[@TopCurls]

I’m just gonna start asking enemy jg’s if they want to gentlemen to 1 grub each

[@YGP64]

Phylaris have you found out a way to kill the grubs the fastest? Do you focus on grub or get them all low or

[@niwoh]

They get a % max health + % missing health shield, so you'll want to focus your single target damage on one at a time until it's dead, but you'll want any aoe damage to hit as many of them as possible.

[@Daaanny]

he’s talking about coach Eagz video 😂

[@silvix3137]

phylaris is finally back?

[@zenyatta5064]

I don't play. Does it not matter to get xp lead early? sorry if dumb question

[@ciclonable]

So my biggest concern is that i have seen many many junglers saying "they are not worth the time" and let the enemy get all 5-6 stacks of grubs. I never wanted them for the exp rate , I want them for the tower buffs. and if i am wrong about them being valuable, please let me know why, so i get better.

[@Phylaris]

They're both valuable. That said, the tower buff is only particularly strong for siege or splitpush teams that are constantly chipping at turrets. It's not as useful for 5v5 deathball teamfight comps.

[@RiptidexRiltreks]

Personally. When I climb. I like to make good use of macro and splitpushing. Voidgrubs make this process like 5x easier for me because of the weaker gp passive on turrets. It also ENCOURAGES these anti turret engage low elo goombas to actually hit the turret. So its absolutely insane. I give 0 fucks about exp Personally. And if the jg wants me to affect map with a massive amount of ease of use, they'd better get me at least 2.

[@sephirothcloud3953]

You are the best

[@jdogsful]

i dont even view grubs and drags as a jg objective. they are team objectives. Im not fighting alone for a team buff if the team doesnt care enough to fight for them. i can just get ganks and gold instead. Ill ping objectives, but if no one comes, ill just leave it. Quite frankly, laners are the ones that benefit from grubs and as soon as grubs spawn, top and mid should immediately go to grubs and try to get them, not the jungler.

[@N3207H05]

yeah but i still have to fight for the grub spawn so theoreticly you are right practicly not.

[@Theguy-py4oi]

No, you mosh at 5 minutes because it sets you a permanent buff

[@rickelmemonti1405]

sick

[@xXTheBennyXx]

Do junglers need to lasthit the grub to get the exp or is it just shared?

[@Phylaris]

Bonus jungle pet EXP is always solo and will go solely to the jungler as long as he participated in killing the Grub. The ~75 Grub EXP itself is shared evenly among all allies that participated in killing the Grub. Last hit only affects the gold split.

[@exxon101]

Get some grub.

[@heon9519]

will you ever stream, do you already?

[@Phylaris]

Nope, I'm a washed up boomer and play ranked maybe once every 3 seasons, just to make sure I can still play at GM/Chall level. There are way, way better junglers to watch.

[@SuperbFairy]

man's honest, I like@@Phylaris

[@heon9519]

yeah but I enjoy watching you, plus you explain thing very well, consider streaming maybe you will enjoy it@@Phylaris

[@moonblastx1996]

interesting, and yet even though they are "wrong" but they're not, because functionally everyone should try to get at least 1 grub (their first) but really, silly argument because you should try to get as many as possible, it's always more exp, and their buff is BROKEN AS SHIT. get these grubbies people. this wins games easily

[@Phylaris]

It's important to understand in contest scenarios, so you don't grief your positioning to try to Smitefight for the first Grub thinking it's the most important. If you let the enemy jungler Smite it, you can always Smite the second for free while the enemy jungler's Smite is down. I've seen a ton of inting to try to secure that first Grub specifically.

[@moonblastx1996]

@@Phylaris yeah I get what you mean, but then again League players assume they know things and then they rarely actually know. i am back to the game after not playing for almost 3 years, and I didn't keep up with the game at all in the meantime. I'm still exploiting mistakes left and right. awful positioning, people drop wards while I'm clearing them so I can just clear more for free lol

[@JessicaMorgani]

does it give 150 if you're level 5?

[@Phylaris]

Levels have nothing to do with it.

[@iisollated01]

Youre wrong about me being wrong about grubs

[@Phylaris]

checkmate

[@LockArthan1996]

Blows my mind that you're not the most visited channel in league for referencing jungle content. You should have a permanent spot in leagues first page tbh. Guess I'll abuse the fact you're not meta to climb lol

[@bobfake3831]

why show the people now ill have to worry to lose like 10% wr lul

[@hisaichiyushiki8219]

This video proves that league players more often than not (every time) judge something based on false information or incomplete research. This is why people flame everyone in ranked. Everyone is wrong, stop arguing. Try to win with what you know, not what you don't. Idiots...

[@w58461]

APRENDE REVOLTA, APRENDE

[@ta-nez3013]

the fact that you're saying every letter of "exp" is very frustrating

[@Polevolter]

Came here so I can feel justified in flaming my junglers for grub flipping🫡

[@cashbag]

it's critical to get a least 1 grub from each spawn, to prevent voidmites and for the exp

[@Phylaris]

It's great if you can get at least one Grub from each spawn for sure. I wouldn't int or give up on a strong crossmap play for it, but for sure if you can drive-by and quickly clear or smitesteal one Grub it's good.

[@trucmachin2840]

In my opinion, the oft-heard argument that says "go to the Grubs anyway, just to get xp from the first monster" is also invalid. Unless you're already not far away, you're usually already gaining xp in your jungle (especially during the 1st spawn at 5min). So you might as well continue your farm cycle rather than leaving everything to go and do 1 Grubs. it's really not that important as an objective, or at least not as important as people think. And if you really want to avoid the 5/6 enemy stack, just contest the 2nd spawn

[@Phylaris]

@@trucmachin2840 It really depends on your other options and which way you're routing yeah. For example if you're Redside and opened Blue-Gromp-Wolves-Raps-Red/Krugs, then on second rotation it's not a large detour to go Gromp-Wolves-Raps-Grubs-Krugs and try to sneak one even if the camp is contested. But if you're pathing top to bot on your second rotation, and you're giving up a on a clean clear sequence into dive on botside just to try to deny a single Grub, then it's really griefing.

[@trioz1819]

​@@trucmachin2840i think is just about ult spike

[@gtagusta]

i would like to further enforce his point about the extra exp you get after killing your first grub, the reason for that is due to the fact that epic monsters effects applies only to the first grub you kill not all 3 of them, this also applies to cho gath R and other abilities, items and so on that have special interactions with epic monsters

[@kaltziferYT]

Each player with jungle item get the bonus. So we need 3 smites in our team.

[@Phylaris]

Now this is the real shit.

[@Twitch-oq3ir]

just the xp isnt worth it or am i wrong? 75xp is like half a camp and i dont think the effect is that broken that i would give dragon for that. and if you are getting stuff elsewhere on the map you can then still contest 2nd spawn to deny the 5stacks

[@Phylaris]

You're correct - I would not sacrifice a Drake handshake or a bot dive just to deny one Grub. It's just that sometimes those aren't realistic options even if the enemy jungler is on Grubs, just due to draft or how the game played out. Games don't always go ideally, so it's just good to know how everything works for the inevitable games where you do find yourself in a position where you're fighting for or trying to sneak/steal a Grub or two.

[@niwoh]

You just can't split the camp tbh, I'd gladly give up a dragon for 2 full voidgrub camps. Probably even worth giving up 2 drags to get all the grubs but that's pretty risky since they can easily get stolen.

[@jurjen909]

Also a good tip for clearing Grubs if you have short range aoe. Attack the front most grub. Pull the furthest 2 grubs towards river untill they are ontop of the first grub. Then you can more easily aoe them.

[@Monjijii]

I was lost without your videos, now that youre back im gonna reach a new peak for sure.

[@DamianSzajnowski]

Eh, I don't jungle but that's intuitive.

[@niwoh]

the convoluted jungle exp mechanics are anything but intuitive lol

[@thod345]

i mean if MY JUNGLER takes ALL the grubs then THERE JUNGLER will never get that amount of exp so IN THEORY my jungler WILL BE AHEAD just saying (pls top laners already dont give a shit about them let them belive that their more inportand than they are im sure in a few patches ill have to do what i do for dragon SPAM PING THEM and stil get ignored) good video though

[@CheekyHaggis]

Should one prioritize Dragons or Grubs Mr. Phylaris?

[@CheekyHaggis]

as a general rule

[@djb1928]

grubs 1000000000000000000000% @@CheekyHaggis

[@Phylaris]

Grub value is high if you have a siege comp or a splitpush comp that's constantly going to be chipping away at the turrets and applying the DOT. Grub value is a lot lower if you have a 5v5 deathball or melee comp that isn't hitting towers often. Grub value is also quite low if your team is losing and unable to actually hit towers. The same is applicable in reverse - if the enemy team is in a good/bad position to make use of the Grub buff, it can be more/less valuable to deny Grubs from them.

[@celloj3703]

Sometimes I’m so glad I didn’t try to follow any S14 guides and adapted to the game myself. I don’t have to worry about dumb shit like this lol

[@CivilengineeringX]

Thx for the info As an emerald jungler this will give a new way to play around them

[@johnpierre812]

wait ppl really believe that? Sorry but thats stupid lmao

[@Volidasp]

who should care about exp? its an OBJECTIVE worth for pushing power your team gets,its not about exp or gold,like dragon and every other objective should be

[@Phylaris]

You want to consider both aspects, not just one - they're both very important. If you regularly neglect to consider your own item/level tempo as a jungler solely to prioritize teamwide objectives, you'll often end up behind individually and unable to impact the map as well as you otherwise could. That lost map pressure can be more much more detrimental to your team's ability to push lanes and take towers than losing a few Grubs. Why be a jungler that can only think about objective buff value, when you can be a jungler that can think about that, AND gold+EXP?

[@niwoh]

@@Phylaris As a Nunu player I disagree, even full build my champ still does no damage and dies in 2 seconds and skill points are useless past maxing Q 😎

[@DarkLeviathan8]

Got my like instantly at the fake "wait im wrong" lol.

[@jazzWF]

so in other words the videos saying you should just get one grub then leave are wrong and you must also get the other two to deny the enemy jg getting them

[@Phylaris]

Not necessarily. If you're tight on time and about to get collapsed on, it's better to get one Grub and leave than to overstay and die. Or, if there's simply somewhere you need to be right away, taking one Grub then dipping can be alright, since it takes longer to clear the next two (shields) and you'll receive less EXP than from the first one you killed.

[@MrQmein]

thanks for the clarification

[@zealdestroyer7600]

🍗 superb content

[@SIMEN480]

Amazing!! Vid. Absolutely top shelf!

[@HerjungleBarou]

I mean you still want to get at least one grub since it’s a camp worth of exp

[@Phylaris]

A single Grub is worth less EXP than a camp and significantly less gold than a camp. It's for sure nice to get a Grub, but I wouldn't do it at the cost of a decent play option or Drake trade botside for example.

[@HerjungleBarou]

@@Phylaris isn’t it the same as lvl 2 group? 155 for first grub, 130~ for lvl 2 gromp.

[@Phylaris]

@@HerjungleBarou You have to add 80 EXP to whatever Gromp's EXP is as well. Every camp benefits from that bonus EXP, not just the Grubs. Level 2 Gromp also never exists in the game. Second spawn camps are always level 4/5.

[@Swoots275]

tl;dr?