Physics of the wrath - The Zornhau

[@bleachedink]

One of my favourite things about German Longsword is the rad names they give everything, "Yes I named this move the wrath cut because it shows how thoroughly pissed I am at you" On a serious note, love the vids, really informative for my beginning into HEMA!

[@kyletoelle]

The Hedgerow has seen some things

[@bernardputersznit64]

Love the visual analytics. Lucid. Thank you.

[@burakurgancoglu6908]

Really neat comparison at 2:04

[@randelldarky3920]

He is a master of the Sword. I would not advise You to tease Him about His pants.

[@narusawa74]

Excellent depiction of the body mechanics!! Very good tutorial all over, I'd have liked a bit more about the follow ups strikes and the mechanics to transition fluidly (like you) from the miss to any possible upper strikes. Please moooooarrr!! You got my subscription sir!

[@luna_moon6662]

I to want more of what this good man speaks of

[@croweater6814]

I had trouble getting a feel for this cut, this vid helped alot.

[@Druid_Ignacy]

This video is awesome

[@acboesefrau7729]

Fantastic! Finally I get the difference!

[@HeraclitoAragaoPinheiro]

great video, thank you

[@NoOne-dz8mf]

Very nice ! As always

[@oguzhantavus4237]

Very effective technique. He is a great teacher.

[@quesder]

2:33 follow up

[@Native_love]

Great video! Thank you!

[@brandonfarfan1978]

I always found this Zornhau stance interesting.

[@torvaldrunarson4219]

Dude thank you for all these videos. Coming from martial arts, I can tell you are very good ! I will be watching many more. I am still trying to figure out when did the first bastard / 1.5 hand swords appear and when were they widly used. Do you have any idea, or better, a source to give me ?

[@Euclidiuss]

I thought a Zornhau was a thrust counter where you push an oberhau away with the false edge and turn the sword upwards for begin a thrust.

@@Euclidiuss No...the Zornhau is just a diagonal cut. What you mean is a Zornhau-Ort...where a diagonal "Zornhau" is used to displace a incoming cut to make room for a subsequent thrust with the "Ort"* or point :)

...and displacing with the short edge would be a "Schielhau". I guess you mix something up here. I have a video about these topic "16 ways to strike with the longsword".

[@danijellino1921]

Why am i watching this? I'm not a swordfighter? I don't plan to be isekai'd either. So why the hell am i consuming these videos at such a rapid pace?

[@HeyBoSsBar]

Thanks

[@Papuaani]

Would it be too risky to deliver the blow at the end of the step? Looks like that could give much more reach, and maybe double as a Zornhau feint

[@sirpepeofhousekek6741]

2:33 smooth

[@REALdavidmiscarriage]

would this be considered a master strike?

[@D4l4m4r]

My Instructor always focuses on how the step should end in the same moment the strike hits, which makes sense to me. You, on the other hand, are mid-step when the strike hits (when the blad is in Langort-Position). Wont that be a problem with stability and follow up actions?

No probs because your step ends a split second later. You have also the advantage to take your sword first in place before your body follows. Your are well protected behind your sword.

But it is not wrong to step and hit to the same time. It is what mostly happened when your not focused to perfect "true time" actions. It would be wrong when you are stepping first and hit secondly, after the bodymovement.

[@Bounty_Hunter0000]

Does anyone know the name of the federschwert that Bjorn is using in this video?

Pavel Moc :)

[@Bounty_Hunter0000]

@ I mean the name of the company :D Is that it or it's the name You gave it? :)

[@Bounty_Hunter0000]

Ok thanks, I got to the webstite :D

[@x-rhoden-x6477]

Thank you for the video, but I have a few questions. Firstly, this cut seems very heavily telegraphed, and in all the HEMA competitions I've watched I don't think I've ever seen a cut like this used. So, what purpose does the Zornhau serve? Is it meant to smash past the opponent's guard and deliver a hit through sheer force? Is it meant to cover distance and surprise the opponent through how quickly one can reach them? Or is this meant for a real sword fight where you want to deliver a blow with actual stopping power which will cause the opponent to go down instantly if it connects thereby removing any potential after-blows from them?

[@Khrene]

My guess, asymmetric warefare, particularly against a spear or another pole-arm. I could see coming from Long Point, Fools Guard, or... Bear guard? (Where your sword is pointing directly up) stepping back to wrath to both move your head out the way and deflect your opponent's advance. Then (like you said) closing the distance and plowing through any resistance.

[@narusawa74]

You're right regarding the use against a spear to break the shaft and for a 2 tempi strike. I think that strike is mostly a bait. You can follow up with a high thrust (as in video) or short cut it and step side way and then thrust from left side opposing the true edge to stay safe. It's such a telegraphed hit that the huge body motion is a perfect feint to get the opponent to go for a parry to save his dear life from such a powerful looking blow. Even if he manage to see your hight thrust and push his blade up you can still roll under his blade and go for a disarm, pommel strike or half swording to his neck/face. Now in real fight no one holds his strikes for follow up so much in longsword.... I always have a hard time to do something complex like that and I know the techniques well.... It's just too fast and adrenaline prevents the clear thoughts..... Rapier though offers a cleaner more technical fight where you can work on the techniques better. I wish I was good enough to instinctively apply my longsword techniques in real bouts..... Ugh. That may also explain why armored fight tends to go for grapple and throws so fast....? Armored and oppressed to save your life you won't bash at each other until you're tired..... German tradition is a battlefield system, can't waste time 1on1 when you don't know where the other opponents might be... But I degress, apologies.

[@Khrene]

@@narusawa74 Thanks for expanding on my thoughts! I practice martial arts, but I'm not a very practiced swordsman especially with 2 handed weapons. So while it makes sense, I don't really have the sword sparring experience to comment on the effectiveness of this as a feint. Playing with it, transition into Wrathguard from anywhere wouldn't provide any structure against someone trying to hurt or harm you. My thought process was comparing the motion to that of a rising forward elbow strike/rising elbow block. "I wish I was good enough to instinctively apply my longsword techniques in real bouts." I feel that. At my college fencing school a friend would go into skilled maniac mode with french foil where his only intent was get in a stab no matter what, and my main goal was not to get stabbed when stabbing him back, to train that sense of panic. Do you practice other martial arts? Or even dance? Having other martial practices might expand you pool of potential sparring friends and allow your brain to get used to sparing/fighting mindset. Either solo or partner dancing will help with footwork, and partner dancing should enhance your blade feel, it definitely did for my sticky hands.

[@narusawa74]

@@Khrene I do(did). I went on the Asian side of fencing with kenjutsu and Iaido. The flow is a rule in any martial activity, dance, gymnastic, and obviously Tai-Chi and so on. No matter from where you discover the flow you should always try to feel it and apply it to any activity. I think that's what Musashi ment by "reflect upon it" in his Go Rin no Sho. The way is expandable to anything. Aikido is also a great vector to teach the flow. I couldn't Get it when I was young but strangely it became obvious as I was getting older...it's everywhere... For your experience of sport fencing and foil, it's one of the trickiest art of all.... Rules of engagment, where a riposte count only after a parry, if I recall? I.was much more into saber for the duel and blade work aspect (and pain😁) and epee for the explosive side in it. For me fencing is done with the guts and the soul not rules, it's an art made to express our old inside insticinct, beast, tamed and refined to the perfection and transfered to a sword art. Sound fantasy and Romantic I know but in the end it's a way to get to the flow and path to get there.

[@narusawa74]

@@Khrene oh, start European historical fencing with a rapier system, Spanish and Italian are awesome but different. In the end the geometry works for any blade and even limbs when it's about fighting. So your physical understanding of martial arts will help transition to an extention of your arm, like a sword. Try it, Destrezza or Capoferro, you'll get hooked.

[@emilioespinosa4179]

master sword, cool!

[@niklasfischer1781]

In meiner Fechtschule habe ich den Zornhau als Oberhau ohne Schritt, und mit verstärkter Körperdrehung beigebracht bekommen....also quasi ein Oberhau, der nur durch die starke Rotation des Körpers und der Arme angetrieben wird, und wo sich die Beine nicht bewegen.....nur die Füße drehen sich bei der Körperdrehung mit.

Ein Zornhau ist unser stärkster Hau den wir im Fechtsystem haben. Ohne Schritt wäre da viel Kraft vergebens. Aber ein schräger Oberhau, auch ohne Schritt, ist immernoch ein Zornhau. Von daher auch nicht wirklich falsch. Vieleicht wurde der Zornhau bei Dir in der Schule ja gern mit dem Zornhau-Ort gelehrt. Da kann es von Vorteil sein keinen grossen oder garkeinen Schritt zu tun, da der Z. hier als Bruch benutzt wird und die Distanzüberbrückung bereits vom Angreifer erledigt wird. Der Zornhau ist ein vielschichtiges Werkzeug.

[@niklasfischer1781]

@ Ja, bei mir wurde es eher als Zornhau-Ort gelehrt. Bei uns ist es das Ziel mit dem Zornhau den Klingenkontakt herzustellen, um dann Indes weiterzuarbeiten, z.B mutieren...daher Zornhau-Ort.

[@TheMan-tn4jk]

What is the purpose of power in a standard longsword? I only ask this because i like swords, but I'm also a bit of a musclehead, so I want to know if using a sword as a bludgeon was tactically viable as opposed to using finesse.

It has more of a psychological effect than a physical...

[@TheMan-tn4jk]

@ dang, makes sense. Guess I'll have to stick to axes and hammers

[@rgarcia7392]

Thank you for a very good breakdown, but I have some questions. The purpose of using true time, in my understanding, is to make it harder for your opponent to react to your attack. In boxing, for example, a jab is done in true time, forcing a reaction in the opponent which is then exploited by the boxer. A jab, and true time cuts, have speed at the price of power. By moving the body first, as in your video, you lose the element of surprise that one normally expects in a true time cut. In addition, by stopping your body and allowing the blade to carry forward, you also lose the advantage of false time cuts. False time cuts, as I see them, are physically powerful cuts. A baseball player swings his bat or throws the ball in false time, in order to generate more power. This is my simple understanding of swordplay, and I'm assuming I'm missing something about your video that you know. Could you elaborate, please?

The Zorn is both: From Zornhut to a specific point (sword near the shoulder) the cut is not true time. There is only power generation, but after this point the cut turn into true time. That means that the sword is occupied the center very quick before the body comes after. Sure, one effect is destroyed by our first body movement (in the power generating part). We have no surprising sword-first-movement. But in the Meyer-System it is not uncommon to read about those movements who should be seen by our opponent (because we have always our follow-up technique in mind). The Zornhau is not a quick sniper shot. It is a threatening and powerful cut, but also save in the execution (by come into true time with sword first into line at some point). So yes, are are right. Zornhau is not really performed in true timeat all, but we execute this cut with all what we can get from true time cutting without forgetting to remember for what the cut is done. I hope thats helps a bit. It was very difficult to include my thoughts into the video without overloading it with long essays :) Sincerely, Björn

[@Ranziel1]

True time is closely related to distance. Your time is false only if you're entering your opponent's true place (which is him being able to hit you without making a step) without having your sword in the lead. A large pass allows you to make several motions with your arms and arrive at true place with your sword threatening the opponent, probably having made a feint or two during the step. A large single intention strike with a full passing step isn't going to hit anybody, which is fine, because it still produces threat and provokes the opponent by giving an obvious opening (Meyer shows some Italian influences and those guys love their provocations and baiting the opponent into a careless attack) while keeping you in a position to make a powerful deflecting cut.

[@thomasgladstone7637]

Yet that would make it a false time attack because you moved the body first and then the hand and then the foot. By fighting in false you time you've entered a range where the opponent can slip the blow and counter without having to step at all. It's a false time attack no matter how you try to justify it. Italian fencing also places a large emphasis on moving the sword first.

[@Ranziel1]

Watch this video, it explains it better than I can. /watch?v=UYQcOeyWGY4

[@thomasgladstone7637]

And yet if you're in range to do Meyer's Zornhau you are in range to strike or be struck. Moving the body first when you're in measure would be fighting in false times. Since you're rotating the body first to generate power what's stopping someone from just walking the point into you or even shifting into a zwerhau from an oberhau? You're giving them plenty of time to react by moving the body first and making your swing so large. Since we're not talking about moving into distance but the mechanics of the strike itself once you're in range to strike it you're still fighting in false time.

[@themightypaw3318]

Its just not for me. I would feel too overextended for a countermeasure. Could a video be posted on the counters to this strike?

[@Aleph-Ayin]

2:30

[@SvampMamma]

well... the lichenhauer oberhau has the same range just take a lager step

[@LycanRace]

Hab ich das richtig gesehen nach dem 'verpassten' Zornhau: Wechsel, umbschlagen, Zwerch, Oberhau?

Fast :) Zorn in den Wechsel, umschiessen in den Ochs, Zwerch und wieder Zorn in Langenort.

[@Michael-hi3ht]

# Vote 100000000000

[@tonyrenshaw3143]

All the primary cuts including zornhau are done with the shoulder as the centre of the cutting circle, not the elbow as shown here. nor does use it linear attacks and defenses, but rather stepping in to your opponent from the sides, either circularly or at 45 degree angles, common HEMA errors

Hey thx for your comment. But sry, i dont get it what you mean. Shoulder in center of cutting circle? In terms of attack with primary strikes in a 45 degree i must disagree. That not necessary for a primary cut.

[@tonyrenshaw3143]

@ hi bjorn. first id like to sy you have nice body mechanics, movement and flow, keep it up. I"ll try and explain. you can cut using the wrist, the elbow or the shoulder in a circular motion. if you hold your arm out straight in front of you and cut figure eights with just the wrist, not moving the arm other than the wrist, then the wrist becomes the centre of your cutting circle. now cut some figure eights using your elbow as the centre of the circle, these will be larger motions, now use your shoulder as the centre of the circle, these will be the largest motions. by figure eights i mean descending diagonal cuts left and right. the shoulder cuts are the largest, slowest and most powerfull cuts, then the elbow, finally the wrist cuts are the smallest and fastest. As is stated in the german tradition, the Zornhau is the most powerfull cut a person can make and its done correctly like this. in the wrath guard your hands are held a little above and behind you ear, closer to your head than you show them. from there let your forearm go out to your side, bringing the blade and point high and to your right, still hanging a little backwards. dont bring your arm forward at all, only to the side, your elbow about the height of your ear. you should feel a little stretched out. now your ready to cut. step, turn your body which brings your whole arm forward while stepping. as the blade descends from above toward him it will pass by your face at the height of the bridge of the nose between your eyes and finish on your left side hilt at the height of your chin roughly in line with your left shoulder into longpoint closing of his line of attack to your head.the arm should not be to straight so as not to cause injury to your elbow joint but rather a little bent through the whole cut doebringer tells us several times not to attack straight on but rather come at him from the sides. that you will take him better that way. this is ignored by HEMA but was common knowledge for not hundreds, but rather thousands of years, all the cut based living traditions that have their footwork still intact use some variation of this. rapier and small sword etc are more linear, except the spanish who still used circular and 45 degree diagonal stepping. typically the understanding of the footwork goes first, and with it the understanding of how you actually fought with it, regardless if every other aspect was still taught or not, if you dont know the footwork, people typically just stand in front of each other and hit, and this commonly ends in mutual destruction. phillipino arts are a perfect example, its all there, all the footwork drills and everything, but they dont know how to use it in an actual fight so they fight lineally to their mutual destruction. they cant defend themselves, everybody keeps hitting each other. from the wrath guard. step with your left foot laterally to your right side. past , to the side and in front of your right foot. now step with your right foot around your left and to him so you attack from the side of him at a 45 degree angle. cut all the way through to the left wrath guard and do the same, left, right, left, right. if from the wrath guard you bring your elbow forward first then cut, as you show, that is an elbow cut. the english called the wrath cut a downright blow, the cut that you are doing from the wrath guard they called the quarter strike two different things. i hope this makes some sense, its easy to show, hard to describe in writing

@@tonyrenshaw3143 thx for your explanation. I believe that the biggest possible power is given by a couple of factors. Body movement, arm pivots etc. The shoulder-rotator muscle are a factor, but there are also the lattissimus, triceps etc. Also i use two arms which means that my left arm gives me more shoulder rotation than my right and vice-versa regarding the elbow-rotation. If the emphasis is only or mainly in the (right) shoulder as a pivot-point you avoid others or make them less effective. I think the main-problem in our discussion is that we have different opinions on how to use the Zornhau. I strongly believe a Zornhau is to bridge distance, like all other Principal-strikes. With a side-step 45 degree its not possible, you just circle around without going in to hit. I agree that a fencer has to jump from one side to the other when it comes to a situation where both opponents can reach each other. But in prefencing you have to go in straight. But Ok, if i do a Zornhau like you described i have to step aside, because the momentum gives me no other option. But i dont see there any advantage. Perhaps we can meet each other somewhere and you show me your opinion :) Or you make a video!

[@taylorahern3755]

With the right timing & speed such techniques would prove plenty effective in stopping or killing a superbly well trained Samurai wielding a Katana! Thus would that general belief in the superiority of Japanese Samurai swordsmanship be upended & dispelled (as amazingly elaborate, dazzling & lethal as it is, nonetheless!).

[@gwynbleidd1917]

Nice video. It would be a proper zornhau if you didn't bend your elbows in the strike. You're losing most of the force by creating a fulcrum, and zornhau is done from the shoulder like most strikes in German Longsword

I don't see anything wrong with my execution. Maybe you show me how you would do it in a short vid?

[@vargata]

Sorry to say, but you're doing it all wrong. Zornhut isn’t just a static position to start an attack from; it’s part of a circular motion. Think about this: go from a bind to nebenhut rechts, then to zornhut, and finally to vomtag and langort. This creates a smooth, circular strike that can be done on either side. When you go from the bind to nebenhut, it’s straightforward, but when you transition to zornhut, you shift your weight to your back leg. From zornhut, you can then move back to the center with vomtag and strike by stepping forward or shifting your weight. These aren’t four separate stances; they’re just different steps in one fluid strike. Also, forget about those exaggerated, theatrical moves; they’re just the result of poor drawing skills from the medieval artists who didn’t understand anatomy well.