Pilots Never Saw This Mid Air Collision Coming

[@BW12149]

My wife and I were on the Norwegian sun cruise ship. We were on the port side, docked at Ketchikan AK. I was standing on our balcony watching the aircraft take off and land. I watched both these aircraft take off near our ship. The Beaver having a radial engine really was full throttle to take off. The Otter took off a bit later. About an hour later we were on the top deck and seeing Ketchikan fire dept and various emergency vehicles running past the ships towards the coast guard facility. A few hours later our captain made an announcement about the accident and loss of life. All the aircraft passengers came from another cruise ship docked right behind us. Watching the other cruise ship, there was a lot of activity from many of the employees of the ship. That evening, the local news made a detailed report on out the crash. Knowing I had seen both aircraft take off, it kind of hit me I had watched the last moments of a bunch of people that wouldn’t be coming back.

[@icanseeyou3418]

Nice

[@pamelaremel7477]

How horrible for you & fellow passengers!

[@deweyoxburger295]

I flew in that same Otter a week prior on the Misty Fjords tour. I sat in the copilot's seat where that lady latter died. I took many photos inside and outside of the aircraft. The NTSB used my one photo for their report cover. I will never forget this.

[@thomaswest5931]

I think I did the same thing about 8 years ago. Sat in the right seat on that tour. He was an airline pilot temporarily flying the tours and waiting to get called back. (Not saying the same pilot, but a guy with high time in the profession.)

[@deweyoxburger295]

My first thought was that steel yoke in front of my chest, that I wouldn't want to crash with that thing there. I was nervous the whole flight; with the terrain, with taking off and landing on water (twice), it was all new to me. The pilot was dressed more like a farmer, with boots on, etc. He played music to calm our nerves. Once we landed and docked, I took that photo after everyone had deplaned. @@thomaswest5931

[@nerdjournal]

I had flown on the Grand Canyon's Papillion Helicopter and have video of the flight from a few weeks before the crash in 2018. Has anyone ever looked into how many crashes have happened at the Grand Canyon? I know I hadn't until that happened. Sketchy sketchy.

[@dojoswitzer]

@@nerdjournalThe canyon rim and required flight paths are pretty high altitude. I would like to fly over but assume it would need to be a dry & cold winter day to get the airplane off the ground.

[@jakebiebel8609]

@@nerdjournalI was in Vegas about to go drive to do that helicopter ride that day! I will never go on a helicopter since that accident

[@davidhorizon8401]

Non pilot but aviation enthusiast. You do a great job explaining difficult things. I really like your channel.

[@casssmith2610]

Me too… I’m a Road Warrior of over 30 years of 3-4 million airmiles for business, internationally. I love flying obviously as it’s my commute. I love flight crews. But I also love all flight channels as I learn so much about the mechanics of flying as well as the way various personalities impact flight dynamics. Hoover is so informative!

[@Sam590ss]

I'm subscribed to several aviation channels on here. This one is by far the best in my opinion.

[@peteranson4021]

A few years ago I was flying in the Australian outback, a place where the "Big Sky" can't possibly get much bigger. I had an interesting experience on a leg between Wilcannia and Menindee. I use Ozrunways on my iPad for flight planning and navigation. One of the features is that if you are within range of the mobile phone network it will “broadcast” your position and planned course and altitude to other Ozrunway users and display it on their screens; almost as good as radar but with a bit of a time delay. The mobile network is very limited in the outback but at altitude it’s surprisingly good. While heading south west roughly parallel to the Darling River at the recommended cruise altitude of 2500 feet I could “see” another aircraft tracking east across my path but marked as “unidentified”. He was only 300 feet higher and as we closed it looked like we might pass pretty close to each other so I kept a close watch on our altitude separation, and when it looked like I might be able to spot him I looked in the likely direction and was surprised to see a large helicopter, I think it was a Bell 412 air ambulance, within a few hundred metres and closing rapidly. We did have a small altitude separation but I think he got a bit of a shock too because he made a sudden bank to the left to pass behind me. We were probably the only aircraft within a 100 mile radius but we came that close. Sometimes the big sky just isn’t big enough.

[@johnschlottman619]

Things hugely separated by space, yet ultimately colliding? I think you may have the seed there of a good theory as to how planets form.... Oh, and stars. Using 🧠 brain (and their products,, e.g. gadgets) beats 'leaving it up to nature / chance / wishful thinking' often enough as to assume 'every time'. Unless you want to end up like a star/planet. ⭐

[@dokwalk]

​@johnschlottman619 you think that's good? Wait til you get past middle school philosophy.

[@skellious]

​@@johnschlottman619 in that case gravity also plays a large role, as well as time

[@ShaggyRogers1]

@@johnschlottman619 Things in space collide because of gravity. Not nearly the same thing as two aircraft colliding despite dozens of miles of empty space in all directions.

[@jackielikesgme9228]

@@johnschlottman619 this is not a good seed for planet formation theories, Friend. I get stoned and watch these videos too but not every thought needs to be shared lol

[@steelhealer1]

I worked up in Alaska for 3 months during my junior internship in medical school. Alaska has the greatest number of pilots per capita. Towns and villages are far apart. Areas are remote and having a pilot's license and access to a plane opens life up. I am new to Pilot Debrief, not a pilot, but my dad was B17 bomber pilot in WWII. Leaving the Air Force he was given a commercial pilot rating and he used to take me flying out of then Zahn's Airport. We built model airplanes together and he taught me some basics of flying. This collision was sad and just shows you that even an experienced pilot can find themselves in a bad place. Hoover..great website and thanks for keeping your explanations understandable for all us "non flying pilots at heart". F

[@thomaswest5931]

Living in western NYS years ago, a gorgeous clear day got me up for a pleasure flight. Flying the C172 solo in an area far from airports I missed a midair with a C172 that crossed directly under me. Instructors (blessed be the good ones) had drilled into me to always scan and it paid off. Saw him coming about 2:00 position about 3 sec before crossing paths. Pulled up and saw the rivets on his wing as he crossed directly beneath me. He never saw me until we crossed. He did a pull up turn after to check me out. We never met or talked later. “Big blue sky” my ass. That was one of two near misses in 30yrs/1000 hrs of flying. Both saved me by scanning and situational awareness. Ever vigilante!

[@smartysmarty1714]

The same thing happened to me, probably about 25 years ago. Central Wisconsin, clear summer day, all farmland under me. The plane (I think it was a Bonanza, but was never sure) converged on me much like in this video, but more from my 3 o'clock position. I was flying a 182. He was above me and I never saw him until he was about 20 feet from me. We directly intersected, separated by maybe 10' at best. 10' between life and death. I can still vividly remember that he had blonde hair and David Clark headsets. It was over in less than a second. I never saw him until he was in front of me, and I have no doubt he never saw me at all. I constantly scan for airplanes, but bad things can still happen. Big sky/little airplane didn't apply that day. Some things you remember throughout your life, and I think of that day quite often. Just one or two seconds made all the difference in the world.

[@thomaswest5931]

@@smartysmarty1714 I hear you. My memory is vivid of those few seconds all those years ago. I still see the details.

[@andrebello4191]

Big blue sky my ass. That's a good way to put it. Sometimes the sky is not so big. A DC 8 and a constellation collided in 1960 or something like that. Aeromexico 498 PSA 182 DHL and that Russian etc etc etc it happens in busy airspace.

[@SmegInThePants]

They sky might be big, but that's of little relevance to collisions. That's like saying the universe is huge, maybe even infinite, so there is no need to worry about traffic while riding your motorcycle around because the odds are tiny that a motorcycle located at some random location in the vast mostly empty universe would happen to share a collision course with another vehicle. Such tiny odds! Would be ridiculous to worry about it! Ride away! Obviously it makes no sense to use that reasoning to abandon any fear for safety when riding a motorcycle. The universe might be infinite, but its not the entirety of space in the entire universe that is relevant when figuring out the odds of a motorcycle versus vehicle collision. Its not even the entirety of land mass on planet earth. Its not even the entirety of the road space on the planet, or your country, or your town/city. The universe might be infinite, but your motorcycle ride will be on a route w/a departure and a termination point over an amount of space that is not remotely infinite. The sky is indeed big, but you don't fly through the entirety of the sky, just a tiny tiny portion of said sky, and that portion of sky you flying through ain't so big, and is shared by many others whose schedules you are probably unaware of. For instance, you are probably taking off from some sort of air field. So you are sharing a limited number of common embarkation/termination points within that vastness of sky with all other travelers within that vastness. Not so vast at all when all vectors lead to and from the same finite number of locations. And time is a factor as well. Some times and dates are far more popular than others. The odds of collision rely much more on factors other than the size of the medium you are moving through to such an extent that the bigness of said medium is practically irrelevant to the issue, except the other way around because of the false confidence it gives.

[@blackbirdwisconsin]

​@@smartysmarty1714dad and I were approaching Shawano from the south and I swear I heard a guy announcing a departure. Shortly after, I swear I saw a blip opposite direction pass just above us. Both our noses blocked seeing each other. I've often wondered if center controllers witnessed this on their radar scopes.

[@dessertfox3263]

Thank you for a great video. About 50 years ago, I got my pilot's license and flew about 100 hours in Los Angeles area. After I had a couple of near misses, I decided to quit flying because it was obvious that I just didn't have the awareness required to be a safe pilot. It was a difficult decision to make because flying is so much fun, but I doubt if I would be alive today if I would have continued to fly.

[@michaelscott356]

Sorry to hear, but good for you. I have my ultralight license, but for reasons similar to yours, I never advanced either. I've flown with a buddy in his Piper Arrow a few times, and just watching and listening to him, I knew I could be dangerous up there. There's no shame in staying alive and doing other things that are similarly enjoyable... and safer for all concerned. Again, good on ya!

[@dessertfox3263]

@@michaelscott356 Thank you for the kind comment and sharing your experience. I appreciate your encouragement about enjoying other things. Before I quit flying I was married and had one daughter and that really made me think about survival. After I quit, we had two more daughters which provided more joy.

[@miragesmack007]

The company who owned the Otter had another wreck a week later, killing both occupants, and suspended operations for awhile. That plane was a Beaver. They were under stricter observation by the FAA, and eventually resumed flying tours.

[@grandyco]

Watching these videos should be required by all pilots with 100 hours or less. One video a week with an exam after each one. Hover, you are the best. Thank you for taking time away from your family to provide the aviation public with this information. This is your mission field

[@angeloftheabyss5265]

Fuck that

[@timpassmore7455]

Back in 1986, I was working as ship's photographer aboard the Pacific Princess, the original Love Boat. Sailing out of Seattle, we had a day in Ketchikan, and these tours were very popular with the passengers. On one cruise, a woman who had some kind of travel program on a Bay Area TV station asked if I would come on a floatplane tour and run the video camera she had as their budget couldn't swing a real operator. With just three of us, the pilot was constantly answering questions and positioning the plane for the best viewing. I can only imagine what it would be like with 10. Another time, the captain sent for me shortly after we docked and said that the harbor master had requested a photographer to go up in one of the tour helicopters to get pics of the five cruise ships that were in port, the first time they'd ever had five at once. Before taking off, I had them take my door off so I wouldn't have to try shooting out the small window. It made it a little chilly and noisy, but with the intercom, that wasn't a problem. I was a little taken aback when he said I would have to help him keep a lookout for other aircraft. With five ships in harbor, the airspace was swarming, but I didn't consider the odds of a midair to be too seroius. I should have known better. The previous December, I'd been aboard the Mississippi Queen riverboat when it collided with a barge train between Baton Rouge and New Orleans and had to be run onto a mud bank to keep from sinking.

[@digger3578]

One random day, while in flight training at Merrill field in Anchorage Alaska, I counted seventeen other aircraft in the sky. It’s extremely possible to have midair collisions.

[@jamesordwayultralightpilot]

Yes but to have 2 pilots take off from the same airport and take separate routes and wind up colliding as the both enter the pattern of a completely different airport at the same time. That is pretty amazing.

[@thomasmixson7064]

@jamesordwayultralightpilot I always presume there are other aircraft about, especially while approaching an airport!!! Not only report position, etc but also talk to other pilots....fair skies & tail winds to ya!.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@jamesordwayultralightpilot Not so amazing when you consider the pure and simple popularity for both treks between said airports. Popular sites and sceneries develop clusters because people are drawn to go and see them... Airports are their own traffic hazard because every plane in the air has to find one sooner or later. The odds are somewhat stacked against precisely the scenario, but certainly NOT against the possibility of intersecting flight paths over the scenic waterfalls or near the airport in any of the available traffic patterns in and out bound. "Big Sky Theory" ONLY works "sort of" when in the middle of route, at cruise. The chances of someone else being at your precise altitude on the same track are relatively low, but NOT zero. It's not likely you'll randomly intersect other aircraft at precisely your altitude going other directions, and ATC works pretty hard to even reduce it from what it would be if planes just flew "willy-nilly"... BUT it's still NOT zero. It hasn't even approached zero for decades. Worse yet, General Aviation, which is where these planes are classed alongside hobby pilots in Cessnas and the like, there isn't nearly the variety of altitudes available, nor the traffic controls to keep them separated by rote. Commercial Airspace is much more tightly regulated, and that's why there are more classes and requisite skills for a cert as a commercial pilot, while the hobbyists and amateurs get fairly loose reigns to run amok in lower altitudes with unpressurized and frequently out of date aircraft. ;o)

[@AK.Navy.Veteran]

True we have had a couple mid air collisions out here in the Matsu Valley over the years.

[@adotintheshark4848]

Not if everyone is looking out for other aircraft.

[@AaronWbirdman]

Another great breakdown. Thank you. The animation at the end where the one aircraft was hidden due to the frame of the structure of the aircraft was informative and frightening.

[@57Jimmy]

As small as it may look, if one was to triangulate from the pilots eye to each side of the frame and extend each line outwards it is alarming as to how soon and how large the blind spot becomes! Not only does it show how large an area is obscured but the aircraft can move substantially inside that blind spot and still not be noticed. This is why it is so important to move your head, change headings frequently and be aware of the surroundings.

[@raymondo162]

i got the similar problem when i bought a kia rio. the windscreen pillars are badly in the way, and i found myself craning my neck to look around it at various bends and junctions

[@dojoswitzer]

I have that problem with my car and pedestrians all the time. I need to sift my head when approaching a populated intersection.

[@raybates3119]

Communicate, communicate, communicate! Even just a friendly chat on CTAF as both aircraft were leaving could have indicated both of their intentions to each other and allowed them to deconflict their proposed flights before they got near each other. Well done analysis!

[@mumblesbadly7708]

Looks to me that the Otter pilot was careless and didn’t properly scan for other aircraft as it decended and started to catch up to it.

[@gavanwhatever8196]

Both pilots left from the same area at the same time to do essentially the same tour. How hard would it have been to talk to each other?

[@AlbuquerqueImaging]

pride

[@neilsingh5311]

Complacency.

[@BeachsideHank]

@@AlbuquerqueImaging And competitive ego.

[@marcussilvertabby1433]

It would seem sensible to at least cooperate by staggering their departures to mitigate against arriving at the same time over target. Maybe that was the intention by flying seperate routes, but Otters swim faster than Beavers.

[@bobwilson758]

Got it ! Wow - WTF huh ?

[@casssmith2610]

You’re a natural teacher. That’s why it’s so addictive for me to watch your channel. I’m an outsider looking in but the wealth of info you have is beyond measure for ppl learning. I love scrolling thru comments and looking for other pilots comments, too. Fascinating.

[@BeachsideHank]

Your surgical forensics of aerial accidents are of university quality, thanks for sharing your valuable and insightful expertise.

[@MrPaxio]

university quality 😂 so like military grade? aka 💩?

[@rougelazer8278]

​@@MrPaxiook he probably meant pre 2000's university grade 😂

[@gainestruk1]

This reminds me, on my first cross country solo, at about half way I saw something to right when I turned my head I saw another C150 headed straight at me, luckily he was about 50 feet below me, when we crossed if at same altitude he would hit me just ahead of windshield, I'm sure we would have died, I learned a valuable lesson to keep head on a swivel, this happened in 1979 just south of SWO, by far the closest call I have had to now, I had nightmares with us hitting for quite a while.

[@timdykes6675]

Pilot to pilot position reports during sightseeing activities. Saves lives.

[@pollylewis9611]

Thank you for this debrief with your insight on this tragic accident.

[@miragesmack007]

This is why Alaska has the most dangerous airspace in America during summer, if you account for numbers of accidents. I watched their wrecks one period, they had an accident for 8 straight days. Most out in the wild, as everyone flies just to get around, but some are like this one.

[@casssmith2610]

Same thing for Grand Canyon. Years ago I treated my mother to a trip to Vegas and to get out of the Strip, for a break, we chose to do the Grand Canyon/Hoover Dam tour in a plane with maybe 4 other ppl. It was so much fun and she loved it which made me happy (she crossed over 2 years later) but shortly after we returned home, we saw the same company we used had a crash. I researched and saw just how common they were. One a year or so later was a collision of two just like this video.

[@PRC533]

It's also one of the most unregulated areas of airspace by the FAA. I know for a fact that there was a large stretch of time where they didn't even have anyone doing compliance in the state, the guy had to come from Maryland to do it. The NTSB actually held a hearing in Anchorage in 2017 for a crash (the first held outside DC in 20 years) because of how many people were dying in aircraft. That hasn't changed, and the self-policing Medallion program that they tried to implement failed miserably as well.

[@dudeonbike800]

@@PRC533 my very first hitchhiking experience was an Alaskan gubernatorial candidate who picked us up. He couldn't have been a better introduction to Alaska for us greenhorns. He gave us a lot of advice, but the one that I remember most was, "Never fly with the bush pilots. They crash all the time."

[@larryfromwisconsin9970]

Sad. My cousin's husband was a bush pilot in Alaska that died in a midair collision in the 1990s.

[@pamelaremel7477]

Non-pilot myself, but love aviation. This was just tragic! Keep up the great work Hoover!

[@Roberto-oi7lm]

I'm old enough to remember the collision between a United DC-7 and a TWA Constellation over the Grand Canyon back in 1956. It was the first aircraft accident which killed more than 100 people. Circumstances were quite similar to the ones you reviewed in this excellent video. Anyone not familiar with the saying "Fly TWA and meet your friends on United over the Grand Canyon" should do a search and read about how airline flying was done back in the mid 50's. Hint: A good deal of it was uncontrolled and often without any radio contact with ATC at all.

[@stubryant9145]

It definitely happens. In 1986 there was a midair over the Grand Canyon, a Twin Otter and a Jet Ranger helo. There were 25 fatalities. Supposedly the helo deviated from the agreed pattern. The Twin Otter pilot was a college friend of mine. He was an excellent pilot and a very humble man. Today, we have the benefit of the ADSB system in most cases which can help awareness of other nearby traffic, but there is never a substitute for keeping eyes open and scanning unless flying in instrument conditions.

[@Powerbandm]

There was a recent crash into a residential home in Newberg Oregon. I think it would be a perfect video topic for you! Your channel is fantastic, keep up the good work!

[@Sashazur]

I live in that area so I also would like to see a video on that one.

[@dhouse-d5l]

My old CFI. When VFR its head outside all the time L R, on a swivel, and as you swivel ,u scan. Served me well.

[@pluggedfinn-bj3hn]

This reminds me of some Duck Tours accidents.. person in control of the vehicle being occupied with narrating a tour and not having full focus on safely operating the vehicle. I feel like tour planes like this should have 2 crew onboard, but not sure what is the real solution, better avoidance systems and using them correctly also important, but not sure if it's enough.

[@johnnyut100]

About 40 years ago I learned to fly at an uncontrolled airport. I had 2 near misses in a 2 month period - one of them in the circuit, the other on a cross country flight. I stopped flying as a result. If you want to learn how to fly, I highly recommend learning at a controlled airport.

[@jstar1000]

My dad was a bush pilot in Alaska for over 30 years, lost many O friends, but never had a fatel mishap himself. He was a legend.

[@miskatonic6210]

The arrogance calling his own father a legend... Who cares about some random pilot in cold ass Alaska?

[@jstar1000]

@@miskatonic6210 This video is about pilots flying in Alaska is it not? If me being proud of my dads piloting prowess and many years of experience makes me arrogant then so be it! I can live with that.

[@Ozbird-72]

See and avoid starts with flight training. As a CFI on helicopters I totaled 4 near misses in uncontrolled, heavy traffic airspace and learned from this. My learnings are: - Complex avionics lure you into a false sense of security, do not rely on them. - Train situational awareness about the airspace yyou are in. Are there Ultralight or glider airfields close by? Or parachute drop zones? Sightseeing hotspots? Paragliders? - If you are in a highly populated VFR airspace, perform frequent course changes that help you to see into "blind spots" and also help others see you. In most airplanes, you will need some wing raising and course changes to really see around. Do them and explain this to your passengers. - Ask and instruct passengers to also keep an eye out for traffic and report if traffic is spotted. Explain them the clock orientation of your aircraft to make better indications. They actually like being involved.

[@pilot-debrief]

Great points!

[@michaelscott356]

I, too, am a Certified Instructor, but of the Motorcycle Safety course. Even in my "2 dimensional world" I'm constantly stunned, disappointed and concerned about how little "situational awareness" (SA) is 1. Taught, and 2. Conceived and 3. Practiced/executed. I see a few comments about "complacency", which is just another word to describe lack of SA. Another way of describing it is my old favorite, "familiarity breeds contempt". As we old (and alive!) bikers and pilots know, you can NEVER let your guard down or assume good, safe, correct things will always happen... because far too often, they don't, and the results can be life-changing.

[@Ozbird-72]

@@michaelscott356 Very much agreed! Biking and flying have a LOT in common and attract very similar people.

[@gunnardog69]

Thanks for your breakdowns and commentary. I like your logic and way of analyzing situations that can make us all better pilots. Keep up the good work!

[@Kinkle_Z]

Harkens back to that Grand Canyon collision in the 50s back before Air Traffic Control. So tragic.

[@irishtino1595]

You just convinced me to never take a sightseeing tour in Alaska. Thank you for you highly professional and insightful aviation videos!

[@joeshmoe7967]

or anywhere. Mishaps in areas that offer multiple tour/aircraft have had more than enough mishaps to leave me firmly on the ground.

[@BlueCyann]

@@joeshmoe7967 Yeah, this is far from the only such fatal accident I've heard of where aircraft are supposed to be expected to see each other, but don't. It makes me wonder how often "see and avoid" actually prevents a collision and how much of it is just the luck of never being in the same spot at the same time.

[@nancykaufmann3993]

@@joeshmoe7967Just too many small plane and helicopter accidents for me to ever even consider it.

[@airtechmech6681]

Very well done, sir. During my private pilot check ride in west Houston in 1984, after passing near a very small airport at around 1500 ' agl, my examiner grabbed her yoke and put us in a hard left bank. I looked out the aft window and saw a C-210 climbing right next to us. It was extremely close! The C-210 pilot must not have been conducting see and avoid because we would have been seen right in the middle of the 210's windshield as they were climbing out. Back then, there were 27 airports in the Houston Terminal Area and hundreds of VFR flights everyday. See and avoid was all we had back then unless we were transitioning to one of the primary airports in any of the three TCA's that were there, or if approaching or entering a traffic pattern during which radio calls were needed.

[@GeekBoyMN]

You wouldn't happen to have been flying out of the old Andrau Airpark would you? I lived near Westheimer and Kirkwood in the late 80s and would hear small planes buzzing around and found out about Andrau being less than a mile from my apartment. By the mid-90s Andrau was gone and that whole area has been built up since.

[@airtechmech6681]

@@GeekBoyMN Yes, Andrau. It was right where Kirkwood stopped at Westhiemer. I worked there as an aircraft mechanic.

[@30yearsfuelingbigjets]

hoover...I've watched other plane crash videos..like this one, that you are covering. but I have to stop my regular comment(s) and tell you that you do an outstanding job, you leave no stone unturned, you deserve an academy award!

[@harbepirot6651]

Mr Hoover I admire your professionalism and your behaviour quality. Keep up the good work!

[@Negativity808]

Im working on my private cert and planning on Commercial/CFI i really enjoy this videos and they have imrpoved my SA greatly, i failed my first check due to a SA issue but i understand now that i wasnt ready at that time and then when i finally did Solo i was more than ready to be safe.

[@toportime]

What a tragic story, RIP to the lost souls and condolences to the families of the lost.

[@themidnighttavern6784]

I'm stunned the otter held together after the collision, that's insane.

[@allenthoe8091]

Thank you for all the work you put into this video. Really well done and explained. Sad story, but a lot to learn from.

[@QFWP]

Hoover, great to hear that the operators are going to voluntarily upgrade safety on their planes. Hopefully that means similar navigation aids, maybe even more distinctive/vibrant colours on planes to make them more visable against the green, brown and blue background. Greetings from Australia

[@gwiyomikim5988]

Tour planes could use “takeoff checklists”, like passenger airlines use, to make sure avionics equipment (like the Garmin) is turned on and working properly.

[@kmg501]

That sounds like a good idea. I would add to the check list that passengers should be informed to call out any visual traffic they see to the pilot.

[@paulis7319]

@@kmg501 yep, when I was flying with a passenger I would always tell them before the flight to let me know if they see another airplane, and all the other tour pilots I know did the same during their preflight passenger briefing.

[@sirreptitious6645]

Not checking the Garmin because “I didn’t turn it off, so it must be on” sounds like negligence.

[@GeekBoyMN]

This is the 2nd or 3rd video I've seen about this crash and to my non-pilot mind considering a lot of the visibility issues, the workload on the pilots conducting tours, and the differences in ADS-B equipment I'm surprised there aren't more crashes like this. If I was ever going to take a sightseeing flight I would be asking tons of questions.

[@ShaunHensley]

And add to the workload?

[@GeekBoyMN]

@@ShaunHensley I mean before the flight.

[@ShaunHensley]

@@GeekBoyMN After watching this, I think I’ll stay away from sightseeing tours

[@mikegallegos7]

I recommend looking around windscreen obstacles ... a forward movement to check areas concealed by aircraft construction.

[@pilotreefer2930]

Thank you for your reporting. Very professional your views are. Also informative and knowledgeable.

[@bodystomp5302]

Great coverage, great channel. Well done, Hoover.

[@JoeLikesTrains]

The photo at the beginning gives me the same feeling of the JU 52 that crashed a few years ago in the Swiss Alps, a passenger took a photo of the mountainside seconds before it stalled and crashed killing all on board

[@glennbowers78]

ADS-B is a game changer. I use it all the time not only for avoiding other traffic, but for mid-air rejoins. I can display traffic on a yoke-mounted and hardwired Aera 660, and I also have it blue-toothed to my iPad. If I have a passenger, I'll give the iPad to them and ask them to be my backup watching for traffic.

[@Chrisovideos]

Comment 1: I find it not uncommon to see aircraft on my screen (Foreflight) and it being very difficult to acquire them visually over certain types of terrain (especially terrain similar to this incident) when they are lower than my altitude even though I know exactly where to look. I often remark to myself when I finally find them how hard it was to find them. I often wonder how many non ADSB aircraft have passed close to me without any of us knowing. Comment 2: It is shocking in the "big sky" how often a plane comes within 1 mile of me, so I'm not surprised that things like this happen in a popular area. Given the congestion in this area, probably as part of the passenger briefing, these passengers should have been told to look for other traffic and alert the pilot

[@drsudz]

Me too! I know wherr they should be but can't find them. Have you ever had "ghost" aircraft show up? It's happened to me a few times and is really frustrating. First time i was like "Geezus, why is that guy shadowing me?"

[@Chrisovideos]

I get them sometimes. Not in the last year or so. Apparently its some sort of delay glitch with the ground towers. First time it happened it scared the crap out of me. I took evasive action like I was in a dog fight. I remember thinking "why is someone following me so close" then I realized I was following myself. The audio alert always catches your attention. @@drsudz

[@hefeibao]

@@drsudzUsually if I have a ghost aircraft that's very close it's because I have my own Sentry in the cockpit with me as well as the one installed in the aircraft. It will show a 0' delta in altitude but then goes away pretty soon after establishing cruise. That's the only time I've experienced this phenomenon. @chrisovideos - you're not alone in having trouble spotting other aircraft, even when you know where to look.

[@richd8537]

Great debrief Hoover. I once had my butt saved by VFR altitude selection. Went head to head with another Cessna on a reciprocal course. The detect decide action sequence happens so damned quickly.

[@thomaswest5931]

Advice I received was to fly VFR at odd altitudes. Like 50’ above/below the nominal altitudes (1050’, 2550’, etc). Certainly no substitute for constant full scans!

[@DougBow96]

Thanks for the debrief. Excellent lessons to be learned.

[@Jim-Wade]

My wife and I took one of those flights in 2009 and really enjoyed it. The pilot landed on a lake so we could get out on the pontoons and watch the bears. When we got back in, I made sure he knew I'd bumped the instrument panel switches with my knee when I got out!

[@ArkansaDave1]

I have come close and had to deviate to miss other traffic. I wasn't even flight seeing or in a congested area. It is crazy how airplanes can come close in the great big sky.

[@diggy-d8w]

We see these "Traffic" related issues a lot when helicopters(more than 1) are following along in a high speed car chase where police are involved. They are chasing along while narrating to a live audience & I'm amazed they don't wreck more often and "big sky" doesn't count when you collide = you're in little skies at that point ! Good video, thanks

[@kurtak9452]

Great debriefing....I fly in AK with my head on a swivel for sure...

[@driftwoods2229]

I'm surprised I haven't stumbled upon this video sooner. I was connected to this incident in a distant but close manner. I prepared the emergency pack out equipment for the Otter in this incident. Prepped to sustain 12 people with food and shelter supplies for a couple of days. After the incident the pilot of the otter called me and thanked me for making the plane so prepared but unfortunately the pack-out bag sunk immediately and he was focused on all the people aboard that it was a lost cause. RIP Randy Rest in Power

[@coriscotupi]

I recall that in the 80s I read about a collision involving two military aircraft (I'm thinking they were F-111s) a few years prior. The investigation determined that they were approaching each other in straight trajectories and at constant closure rate and that for each pilot, the other aircraft would appear stationary relative to his window and was constantly hidden behind his window post, until it was too late for evasive reaction. Not too different from this accident. So sad.

[@rallwest]

I have learned a TON from watching pilot videos, and even more from watching yours, hoover. I have to say that as a newer pilot this video is the most impactful for me. The more videos I watch and the more things and situations to which I am made aware the more I realize, and two things that have become so present are: 1. How irresponsible and inadequate the pilot training I have received has been, and 2. How much more potentially dangerous flying really is. Airplanes have been flying through the skies since before I was born and have for my entire life been a common sight, the safety of which seems to be taken for granted by most people. I almost seems like flying an airplane can be akin to gambling at the casino. "The house isn't going to lose in the long run." I'm humbled into realizing that there probably isn't a a level of responsibility that is "too much." I have been taking from these videos many notes that I am incorporating into my check lists and my own operating procedures to avoid both "holes in the swiss cheese," as well as "allowing any holes in the cheese to line up." In other words, I am looking at all the vulnerabilities that I can see and eliminating them as best as I possibly can. This video was very impactful for me as I imagine in horror how easily and quickly aircraft can collide mid-air from a blind spot. Thanks again.

[@captricflyer3116]

"Aviation in itself is inherently safe, however unlike the sea it is unforgiving of mistakes" This was a placard on a wall of an aviation trainging school from over 56 years ago where I was training as both as aircraft mechanic and pilot.. I know some sea going bellhops will get their dander up .. as I also know having been a sailor and the sea. Of which both can be deadly by mistakes... We all need to remember safety first, yourself and those around you. On the ground, in the air or on the sea.. Mr. Hoover Pilot Debrief - I/We thank you for your making all of us aware how these accidents happen.. and for all of us to be aware -safety first. Young or Old, Experienced or Not makes no difference.

[@PaulRubino]

As a retired ATCer i love thse videos.

[@csqr]

I’m a future pilot and aviation enthusiast and love your channel. Thanks for all that you do. Just wondering how expensive are radar systems that would show all nearby traffic? I would have assumed that all planes have such systems, but obviously that’s a wrong assumption.

[@alk672]

See and avoid is a concept from the earlier days of aviation where traffic density was incredibly low. It is not nearly sufficient anymore, and ADS-B must be required everywhere, not just in random segments of airspace. There are too many blind spots in any aircraft, not nearly enough visibility to avoid a collision at these speeds in three-dimensional space.

[@LarryPortouw]

I had a near mid-air like this at the Arizona meteor crater. Missed by 23-30 feet according to a passenger and I never saw the other aircraft, to include after. They weren't visible on ADS-B.

[@MrMelvinSchlock]

That window post issue extends to cars as well. More times than I care to admit I’ve almost collided with pedestrians or cars whose velocity matched that blind spot. Usually it’s a passenger in my car who yells at me.

[@jamesmorgan34]

Several years ago my wife and I were flying home to southern CA in our V35 Bonanza on a return trip from Laughlin Nevada. We were climbing out through about 6000 ft. when a Cessna 210 suddenly appeared descending about 200 feet directly over us at the same direction but fortunately at a greater speed. That was a bit of a shocker because we had no warning and it was before the adsb in & out capability, and we were not yet able to pick up flight following for the short flight home. I'll never forget the belly of that Cessna 210 appearing right above my windscreen!

[@dinosoarmotorsports]

Another great video and instruction...thank you, sir.

[@The46Chief]

I remember flying around Talkeetna and the AK range. There are mountain traffic advisory frequencies with popular routes and maybe 50 different reporting points because its BUSY. Knik glacier area has the same system. Very high traffic areas and the reporting systems work very well.

[@sirwinston2368]

It's absolutely horrible that there was the loss of multiple lives and I feel for the families and friends who lost loved ones. That's first and foremost. But on a much less significant note - Those DHC planes are beautiful. De Havilland stopped making the Beaver in the late 60's. They still make a twin-engine Otter, but the single engine variety was taken out of production in the late 60's, just like the Beaver. Beautiful airplanes! There are only so many still flying today. Nice job Hoover. I am a relatively new viewer and not a pilot (but... my 18-year old daughter plans on being a pilot after she graduates high school in a few months). Thank you. sw

[@gumbymofugga]

I really appreciate all the effort you put into creating these informative diagrams for us and making sure to pore over the NTSB reports to ensure that you're being accurate. There's no way you're not putting in 5 times as much effort as comparable channels.

[@edwarddavis507]

I’m seeing some trends. First, the lack of appreciation for ppe, seatbelts. Second, lack of awareness for the Garmin, a significant navigation tool, and its functionality.

[@atzuras]

Also, why not use strobe lights that go on automatically when other traffic comes too close? Transponders are great but still you have to see to avoid.

[@huracanmedia1661]

Hoover-Really appreciate the detailed insights and unfortunately also shows with highly experienced pilots in perfect weather things can go wrong very quickly. I am not a pilot however fly on regular basis with a family friend in his own beechcraft baron, its 100% by th book regardless of 20 min flight or 4 hour flight. I sit in the right seat and same procedure every flight, walk around, weight/balance check even with just two of us, prelight check list i read to him, he reads it back to me and double checks i did not miss anything, ultra detailed and he never says yeah ok, its yes and visually shows me the switch, check whatever. Whenever i fly on small planes even if sitting in the back i always make sure i see the pilot doing a preflight and even ask about weight/balance.

[@TheRoguelement]

When your Capt of a sight seeing tour flight your Number one concern MUST be situational awareness ESPECIALLY when the air is thick with other sightseeing tour jockeys all playing for the same airspace ...So each flight had at least 4 eye's watching out for other aircraft and yet not a single eye ball noticed anything until both aircraft were likely occupying the same airspace . Bravo well done ...

[@pittmanfh]

There are so many of those planes flying around tourist areas in Alaska, I am surprised this doesn't happen more often.

[@Rhaspun]

Another comment said that one of the companies involved in this accident had another accident a week after this accident.

[@alantoon5708]

No one ever expects that someone else will occupy the same bit of airspace that they want to occupy. A good pilot will expect that.

[@erictaylor5462]

I had the crap scared out of me when I was taking a flight lesson. We were headed into Nut Tree Airport. Nut Tree is an uncontrolled airport in Vacaville, Ca. Incoming aircraft report when the fly over Winters, Ca (In Yolo County, you only live once!). Winters is a tiny little town only about a mile across. Just as I was about to key the radio and announce we were over Winters, another aircraft reported he was over Winters. My instructor and I looked at each other and without her saying anything I called the other plane asking for his altitude, stating I was over winters as well and I gave my altitude, saying I didn't have him in sight. He called back saying he was several thousand feet below me, he had me in sight and I was falling behind him. I felt much better and continued my decent. When I finally got sight of him he was maybe two miles ahead. My instructor said it was not a close call, we had tons of separation, but it sure scared the hell out of me.

[@frankiefernandez5252]

Aug 20, 2015 I saw a mid-air collision near Browns Field, San Diego. Cessna, vs small business jet. Explosion and fireball, all killed. 3 airports in a small area.

[@jaxbutterfly9186]

I really love your debriefs. Very clear and understandable for an average person such as myself. Jax 70 in Hawaii 🌴🌺

[@brianmcdermott2430]

Good info. and a great job explaining it. Thank you for all you do.

[@scottfiresign953]

Hey Hoover really tragic accident. I have my private pilots license with just around 100 hours in a Cessna150, 172 and 182. Whenever I flew I usually always had flight following. It was an extra set of eyes to keep me and my passengers safe and out of trouble. It is extremely hard to see other aircraft in the air, which most non-pilots don't realize. It seems like that would have saved a lot of lives in this scenario. Maybe NTSB should make flight following mandatory for all flight tour operations. Clearly there are a lot of distractions when the pilot is wearing several hats as pilot/tour guide. Thanks Scott

[@AviationJeremy]

Had a close call myself on Friday night flying into HWD. Structure obstructing line of sight is no joke.

[@1gravityworks]

Years ago I was a passenger on a helicopter as a technician GPSing the boundary of a wildfire. We had completed the mission and were on our way back to the heliport / airport decreasing our altitude when suddenly a fixed wing aircraft appeared in front of us. We did not see it intially becaus of it was gaining altitude and was masked by the terrain and houses of the town where were headed. Luckily we were able to maneuver to avoid a collision. It was starting how fast that plane appear and how quickly the distance shrank. Having worked as both as part of a helitack crew on wildfires as well as mapping tree diseases using fixed wing aircraft one of the mantras all of the pilots enphasized was that it is everyone's responsibility in the craft to keep our eyes open for other aircraft and to alert them if we spotted something. As a side note, the two best pilots I ever worked with; one was an old Vietnam war helicopter pilot and flew a Lama helicopter. He could long line a load and drop it on a dime and, more importantly, he had nothing to prove. His main focus was being a damn good pilot. The other person was woman who flew lead plane and airtankers on wildfires plus side gigs like ours. I think she was one of the first women in that program. Same thing, she had no ego in the game. She just took pride in her skill as a smooth, conscientious pilot.

[@Seadog..C5]

Sightseeing tours remind me a lot of news coverage of a crime scene. Everybody maneuvering to get the best view

[@shaun6729]

This happened in Australia recently between two helicopters. The onboard footage is disturbing when you can see one of the passengers trying to alert the pilot to the rapidly ascending helicopter just before the collision. It will be very interesting to seen the outcome of the investigation.

[@jerrytracey6602]

Your comment that the NTSB noted the possibility that the door pillar had occluded the Otter Pilot's view is interesting. A good car driver moves their head and body around in the car to make sure they can see around the A-pillar for any hazards. It's a lot to ask a pilot to do this as well as everything else, especially if they follow the doctrine of the Big Sky, but when flying VFR in a congested airspace, surely it's a precaution well worth getting into the habit of taking?

[@57Jimmy]

As tempting as it may be, I would never take a ‘sightseeing’ flight on any cruise or trip of any kind.

[@samkilker90qc]

In Canada we have this enroute frequency. When we are not in the control area of an airport we report on the 126,7. We can then talk to any pilot in our area and prevent collision. In the US you don’t seem to have a similar frequency. This would add another layer of protection instead of relying on technology and your eyes.

[@scarybaldguy]

On a recent flight, I (PA28-180) departed the uncontrolled field behind another Cherokee. He was considerably heavier than me, so I was closing on him even climbing at Vy. He saw me on Foreflight and called on CTAF to ask my intentions, since I was at his 5 o'clock (my 11 o'clock) and out of his sight. I advised that I had him visual and on FF and would be turning 45 degrees off his tail in about 30 seconds. Worked out perfectly that time, but far more often I've had ADS-B callouts where I never saw the other guy and they never responded to me asking if they were up on freq.

[@thomasmixson7064]

I find it helpful in scaning for aircraft to quickly look up & down through thin slices of sky from space to the ground from 700 o'clock to 5:00 o'clock.

[@corydalus981]

The lack of relative motion making it hard to recognize an oncoming object is something that dragonflies take advantage of while hunting. A dragonfly will angle in on flying prey in a curved path that keeps the dragonfly motionless in relation to the background.

[@UMSLdragon]

It's only big until we make it small. Like Hoover said, they converged on a common landmark for the tour. That makes the skies quite small. In my opinion, to help prevent this sort of thing from happening is that the tour companies agree to broadcast radio calls at all the common land marks they have on their tours. Kind of like VFR call out spots on the sectionals.

[@brokkster]

that photo of the otter looks unreal. wow.

[@Ty-tie_FTW]

A similar collision happened over cda lake in north idaho. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that crash. It was a few years ago i think but it was huge news here where it happened

[@trevcessna1723]

You’d think air to air COM would be mandatory for all sight seeing aircraft to give frequent position reports. 100% preventable but I guarantee 100% likely it will happen again. So sad, my thoughts are with the families.

[@waynesworld7804]

Love your work Hoover.

[@NorwayT]

Great Pilot Debrief! 👍

[@richardreimer]

I just might have to Subscribe to your channel. You explain everything very Good. I'm x Navy, Aviation & then 45 years in General aviation, 📻 Avionics. Collins, Bendix, King, Garmin, etc. etc engineered, fabricated & installed them all. Thank You, Great Video.✈

[@prichardgs]

WOw what shame...Great break down! As always!

[@Dav-S5658]

The efforts of the Otter pilot to save passengers on his plane must have been incredible. I would have liked to hear how that went down. The Otter was obviously mortally damaged, but only lost one passenger in that collision? One aspect never mentioned was that the pilots were serving as tour guides as well as pilots. That had to be distracting. A similar thing happened in a midair news helicopter collision over Phoenix. Pilots should not be news reporters or tour guides! I believe that now these news helicopters must have a pilot and a reporter on board to split tasks. This helicopter collision is another example of aircraft converging on a single target.

[@kingleonidasonline]

Great point about the passenger briefing that could have helps avoid 😊