Pinball Arcade Loses Bally and Williams Tables -

Pinball Arcade is losing the license for Bally and Williams tables.
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[@PatTheNESpunk]

Do you have Pinball Arcade? Will you scramble to buy the tables that are leaving? ✅More info @bit.ly/2IpkjoL ✅Support the podcast @ patreon.com/cupodcast ✅More #CUPodcast vids: bit.ly/1pOBDVH ✅Follow on twitter @ twitter.com/patthenespunk & twitter.com/pxlsicle

[@Blood-PawWerewolf]

Pat the NES Punk licensing kills game preservation. Also Bally/Midway is another zombie trademark (after midway went under I believe) that a company that no one knows who runs it (yet we do know that it’s an arcade company in Las Vegas if I’m remembering correctly. If I’m wrong please correct me) and I’m guessing two major things that can happen, #1 is greed (wanting way more money that what the devs/publisher wants) #2 dropping out of the agreement because of the publisher acquired the rights to a competitor’s IP (because of Stern Pinball Arcade being released, it could of invalidated the license agreement between pinball arcade and Bally/midway.

[@thesnakeman8006]

If it comes back to the Xbox live on the 360 I just might

[@craigb.8859]

Currently the license holder for Bally/Williams is Scientific Games Corporation, which is basically a slot machine manufacturer that makes in the billions so this contract with Farsight was a drop in the bucket for them.

[@guerillagrueplays6301]

I WOULD buy them all... except I already have them all. Truly a sad day; I recommend this game to people ALL THE TIME to try and get more modern gamers into one of the keystones that defined video game design early in its life, and now so much of that history is gonna be unavailable.

[@seedranka]

Are you banned from Buffalopinball as well?

[@Blood-PawWerewolf]

And just another blow to game preservation because of licensing.

[@codynorton8025]

Also there is a physical one probably not all the tables tho.

[@DijaVlogsGames]

Fun Fact: Farsight Studios were also the developers of the Genesis Action 52.

[@Seantendo]

This is a truly saddening announcement. Pinball is an endangered animal. On the rare occasion that I find a pinball table anywhere, it's out of order.

[@SumerNivek]

Bobby Peru, pinball seems to be making a comeback actually. I see tables more often in the last year at different places then I did in the early 2000s. My local comic shop just joined the “scene” and has added 12 tables to the back room. Good stuff! I hope the uptick continues!

[@Seantendo]

SumerNivek That's good to hear!

[@ljh7557]

It actually has been doing better these days, in fact I would say the best in nearly 20 years. Check out pinside.com 's pin map for tables near your area.

[@iwonderifthisislegal]

There's the pinball museum here in Las Vegas. There's tons of them. There are also a bunch of sellers here in Vegas....that are out of their F-ing minds with asking prices. $7k-$22k I've seen. Yeah, no.

[@MsSteveman]

The only places i find pinball is at a bowling alley or a pizza place once in a rare while i miss and love pinball :(

[@Lifesizemortal]

good news is i wont have to feel bad about pirating those Bally and Williams tables now!!

[@oppyh]

Eight Ball Deluxe--the best solid state table ever made, and the emulation from Pinball Arcade is near as perfect. So sad it is going away.

[@rabiroden]

61 tables is a pretty massive blow. I know they went through a ton of trouble to get the Addams Family table cleared for release. Even ran a Kickstarter for $100k to get all the licensing. Now it's gonna be gone after only a few years on the market.

[@facerip6814]

Just realized there is a place near me with over 100 different pinball machines, and it says Cactus Canyon is one of them. I used what another commenter recommended, pinside.com, and found it. It looks like you have to pay to be a member, but it's open twice a year to the public. Maybe I'll join. Get my pinball on.

[@sidrat2000]

I'm just speculating, but this may shed a little light as to why the licences were not renewed. A quote from Wikipedia: "WMS Industries, Inc. (Williams/Bally/Midway) merged with Scientific Games in October 2013, becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of Scientific Games. Scientific Games paid $1.5 billion for WMS, and WMS shareholders received $26.00 per share. At the time of the merger, the company's stock ceased trading on the New York Stock Exchange. In 2016, WMS was reorganized and fully merged into Scientific Games. Today, WMS is retained as a brand of Scientific Games, along with SG, Bally and Shuffle Master." In other words: The company appears to have changed hands a couple of years ago. The new ownership probably honored the remainder of the old licencing deals, but perhaps wishes to take the Williams titles a different direction. Scientific Games is known for making casino games (slot, poker, etc.). I fear this may be where our beloved Williams titles are headed.

[@cerberus144]

No Pin Bot? Riot!

[@DrewberTravels]

I love pinball arcade. It has the best physics imo. Zen pinball feels too much like video game pinball and not enough like a real table.

[@MosoKaiser]

D. B try Pro Pinball! ...or perhaps don't, it would ruin PA for you.

[@eastender74]

Taking awhile to sort through pinball arcade on the xb1. The tables are sorted into seasons. Bally and Williams are scattered throughout those seasons. 7 seasons in total currently and at $30 a season your looking at $210 plus tax for the whole shebang. Not exactly a cheap venture. Will be giving it more consideration. This could be a ploy by pinball arcade to get everyone who hasn't bought all of their tables to do so now in a frenzy. Taking a page from Nintendo and their NES and SNES classic scenario.

[@PeiceofNick]

Its a pinball graveyard now.

[@elgigante2001]

Looks like I'm late, because all the ones Pat read off are now unavailable for purchase on the PlayStation store.

[@maxsayo]

To mention, the switch version of Pinball Arcade only has the Gottlieb and Stern tables. I was so let down when I downloaded it.

[@creekwoodjoe1607]

what tables should i hord and grab b4 theyre gone?

[@ObiTrev]

These games got me through College Poly-Sci. I completed Arabian Tales during the lecture before my final. Totally aced it.

[@ccateni28]

Aw, that's sad. At least I got the stern pinball arcade for the switch and now the pinball acrcade for switch. I got the retale version via toysrus. :)

[@starsiegeplayer]

I wonder why Bally and Williams would not renew.

[@N02F3AR02]

My thought, maybe they want a better cut of the money and are going to make their own programs. I doubt it will go well.

[@Clay3613]

Some asshat holding company probably bought them out and decided to hoard the assets.

[@GeoNeilUK]

I have a feeling they're gping to launch their own games that will be more expensive and not as good as Pinball Arcade.

[@WilliamPorygon]

The licenses are currently held by slot machine company Scientific Games and the prevailing theory (at least among the folks at pinballarcadefans.com) is that they don't feel it makes enough money to warrant hiring a lawyer to renew the contracts every couple of years compared to what they're making off their slot machines. The licensing issue with the Switch may have upset them as well (supposedly the reason it was pulled and eventually re-released without the Bally/Williams tables is because they said the current deal doesn't include the Switch, but FarSight claims it covers "Nintendo.") While it's certainly *possible* they might be looking to license the virtual recreation rights out to a different company, I would be highly surprised if that were the case, sadly.

[@GeoNeilUK]

"The licenses are currently held by slot machine company Scientific Games and the prevailing theory (at least among the folks at pinballarcadefans.com) is that they don't feel it makes enough money to warrant hiring a lawyer to renew the contracts every couple of years compared to what they're making off their slot machines." So asset hoarders then.

[@pipesmokerman]

You know the switch version is back out again?

[@GrumpyRetroGamers]

*predicts a riot*

[@57yearoldjamesbond]

Guess I'll have nothing to do in the game then

[@sweetfeathery]

Was the 1989 Batman pinball ever a thing on this?

[@CMRetroGaming]

I so happy I bought the physical versions for the PS4

[@dravenlee4473]

Buy the physical PS4 versions while you can. Season 1 and 2 were released in the UK and they are dirt cheap for now. Tons of tables for the price.

[@MechaRandom42]

All the good tables are going. As long as I can still play them if I have them already, I'm fine, but it's sad. Maybe someone will get the license and do a massive collection in the future.

[@marcovoltage]

A sad day for pinball simulation. Lucky I bought all the tables. Farsight stated they keep supporting the tables after the end of license for everyone that already bought the tables. I was affraid to lose the tables at an app update. Hopefully this means that is not the case.

[@pinfarmer]

WMS is dumb for dropping pinball for slots. It still made money. Oh well got most of these in the real anyways. WMS licensed out for physical remakes of some of their best tables.

[@pinballwiz45b]

Remember how well those games did in the early 90's? Compare that with how they did later that decade. Nowhere near numbers like TAF or TZ or anything like that. Operators weren't buying new games -- they were competing with themselves, essentially. So you're faced with a scenario -- a booming slot business, or pinball that's seemingly dropping off the face of the earth? Also, WMS isn't the only company that dropped pinball. Capcom, Alvin G, and Gottlieb dropped the ball in the late 90's, probably because of that same reason. Games weren't selling as well as they did back in the early 90s. Sega considered, too, until WMS decided for them. Someone had to keep pinball alive for the next decade.

[@cleetusvandame]

There goes my dream of playing Congo again 🙁

[@ardvarkboy]

Pinball Arcade retweeted your post of this video.

[@mr.grumpygrumpy2035]

Just bought a PS4 today. Was all happy about Pinball Arcade being available. But then...

[@eastender74]

I have Stern Pinball on Switch and it gets the most play out of all of the games I own! More play then the big title games I own like Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild or Doom. I totally agree with Pat on the enjoyment of playing Pinball on the Switch on the go. It's become THE game to play when I'm on the road or even at home for that matter. I'll probably buy the other tables for my Xbox One.

[@prgalahad5139]

Well, by now we all know what happened... FarSight screws up and WMS are fed up with them. The Williams/Bally license is now over at Zen Studios and they already have 7 tables released, all TOP quality. And the others, like STERN, GOTTLIEB will follow WMS to the Pinball FX3 platform. Zen Studios are far more professional at what they do, to the licence-holder and to the customer.

[@Cosanplayprops]

This is a shame, I play it on steam, but it's good I get to keep what I bought, an 60 tables are a lot

[@TJ_Actual1]

It's a shame to hear this. Been playing since they started on 360. It's a great experience to play rare and expensive pins that you'll probably never get to play in real life.

[@B1ACKMAG3666]

Bride of Pin Bot is my fucking jam. I have sunk way too many quarters just trying to learn the table to get decent at it

[@user10476]

I prefer playing Tales of the Arabian Nights and that table were included for free. Do I have to buy it to keep playing it after June 30? And how do I buy a free table?

[@technicasualty19]

If you have the Core pack or Season 1, then you get to keep TotAN.

[@user10476]

Technicasualty it's not listed in the content of season 1. How do I know that I will i actually be able to keep it if I buy S1?

[@badreality2]

Thank God I saw this video. ...Let me guess, Farsight ran out of Replays, on their Bally/Williams contract.

[@CMKGraphics]

Time to pirate those tables now

[@technicasualty19]

You can buy them until June 30th and you will support FarSight Studios, the developer. Or you can be a total asshole and use this as an excuse to justify you wanting free shit.

[@pixelpassion655]

Technicasualty thank you glad someone said it first

[@MasterZebulin]

@@technicasualty19 Well, that's what you get for letting the license expire.

[@spartonberry]

One table I can imagine won't come because of licensing is Super Mario Bros. (I think it was Gottlieb?) With VS. SMB finally having gotten a licensed home release on Switch, there's not a chance Nintendo would make it reasonable to get the SMB table up? No, I didn't play much pinball as a kid so I only really played that one, because of the license.

[@theodorerelic2718]

Hey, didja know Farsight Studios also did the Genesis version of Action 52? But yeah, big fan of the various Pinball Arcade titles, beginning with the Gottlieb Collection for PS2 and PSP, and The Williams Collection for the 360, as well as Pinball Arcade for PS4, Steam and my Kindle Fire 8HD. And I must say it's a sad day when Farsight feels they need to dump most of their best tables for whatever reason. I've played pinball since the very early 70s and I've played a lot of digital titles since the late 90s as well. Yes, I would have loved to have seen more of the older 60s and 70s tables on the platform but I can deal with what I can get. Not really a big fan of the Stern tables, and if there is going to be a preponderance of those on the platform now I'll likely be buying a lot less of Pinball Arcade. But I have till June 30, so I am hoping for a sale (they've had sets on sale via Steam in the past) but failing that, I'll just buy the Williams/Bally tables I want before we lose them.

[@pinballwiz45b]

You're out of luck regarding discounts. WMS blocked that aspect during this time, too.

[@theodorerelic2718]

Oh well, then I'll just buy the tables I'm interested in.

[@TheBeatfox]

It wasn't FarSight's decision. Scientific Games own the IP and have the power to dictate what things that use that IP can or can't be sold or distributed. The folks at FarSight are just as bummed about the whole situation as the fans, if not more so.

[@Rountree1985]

You can still buy tables on Switch, they just don’t have the Williams and Bally tables.

[@joelggundam]

FYI, PS4 version is all caught up to mobile and PC.

[@craigb.8859]

Here is the Blahcade podcast interview with Farsight over what happened to the Bally/Williams' license: medium.com/blahcade-pinball-podcast/blahcade-135-bobby-king-wms-licensing-interview-and-commentary-65c59a402b38

[@toxicavenga777]

What if this was a ploy by pinball arcade to make some extra money ? Call out that they are losing the licensing, everyone buys their pinballs, then pinball arcade make an announcement that they have the licensing back ?

[@packie2624]

Mostly the Bally and Williams Pinball tables are made by MIDWAY and they are mostly owned by Warner Bros. Games divisions and they should want them back and make A pinball arcade collection MIDWAY arcade Pinball for Williams and Bally in their classic arcade games

[@MsSteveman]

I think the official count of tables lost is gonna be 60-65 :( and of COURSE the gotlieb tables are staying grrrrrr well at least rescue 911 was a decent gotlieb table

[@supergeoff]

I have The Addams Family and Ghostbusters,hopefully they'll will add sega and Data east Pinball games I would love to see Rocky and Bullwinkle pinball arcade but that really sucks that they losing two license of great pinball tables😥😫

[@supergeoff]

Yes Capcom

[@TheDarkwingj]

I told pinball arcade themselves to add JP to pinball arcade they told me its a great table and would pass it along

[@ChrisJones-hv7mo]

The game has been available on steam for a long time.

[@joebaumgart1146]

Plays TAPS

[@TheCrulZ2348]

The thing 2 big questions Iallways had since the news if this have been why don't they renew the licence and what will happen to the pinball arcade underground releases if the tables since it gives you all of season 1 for free

[@technicasualty19]

The holder of the IP for the WMS tables, Scientific Games Corporation, has said that they are not interested in offering the license to be renewed. FarSight Studios, the devs of Pinball Arcade, has no choice in the matter. Scientific Games Corporation won't let them renew the license, so they have to pull the tables from the market.

[@WishItWas1984]

I believe every release is also on Steam. I have a MAME setup with pinball buttons on my controller and it is fantastic. I'm going through the tables going away one by one to make sure I have everything I like and I already found another 5 tables I'll be buying so far. According to the PInball Arcade Facebook page, they say they don't know why they are not getting the license renewed. PA wants it, it's the fucking nobs who own Williams/Bally's that up and told them they will not be renewing, and didn't give the professional fucking respect to say why. That is, if PA's comments are true, but I haven't heard jack from the copyright owners, so there you go. This is just free money for them, it makes no sense. If they think they, or someone else, can do a better job than the people mastering the space for years....talk about shit business decisions.

[@toxicavenga777]

If anyone wants to keep the free - tales from Arabian nights ,then buy the pro version

[@duckbuster]

Wtf!? What happened if you bought the tables?

[@MosoKaiser]

I'm sure it's futile to dream, but I will nonetheless: those licenses + Barnstorm Games! Real tables with Pro Pinball physics modeling... man that would be sweet! Yeah, I've always disliked PA's physics. SO frustrating to have lackluster physics when the table recreations themselves are so well done...

[@Bubbabyte99]

Now I don't feel bad for pirating the Android version. Luckily I also bought Creature from the Black Lagoon on the PC version (which is my favorite).

[@TheCreepypro]

well time to get off my ass and get these before the due date I have no excuse not to now

[@kamealex]

Anybody knows how to change the horrendous flipper sound? Pinball FX got it right, Visual Pinball emulator got it perfect. The Pinball Arcade sounds like shit.

[@TheDarkwingj]

I'm trying to get Addams Family, Judge Dredd, Getaway High Speed II, High Speed, World Champion Soccer or World Cup 94, and Who done it also Medevil madness and theater of magic before they go in June, I told Pinball arcade themselves they have to fill the void with Stern archives to introduce the tables of Data East and Sega to a new generation

[@JetFire0422]

This is such disappointing news. I love Pinball arcade especially the Gorgar table

[@JohnnyTong215]

I really want Congo, Johnny Mnemonic, Tales from the Crypt and Guns n Roses!! I wish they made their way into Pinball Arcade but maybe not.😩 Addams Family doesn’t have the likeness of Christopher Lloyd!!

[@matthewbryant2972]

There is a huge pinball festival in Lodi this weekend. Y'all fuck up and not know about it? You should go next year.

[@vtrip_]

This sucks. I’ve been playing PBA for years. I need to download Firepower.

[@LastCallHall]

Farsight Studios needs to run a massive sale on their expiring tables. Kinda like a giant F-U to Williams and Bally.

[@TheBeatfox]

They can't even if they wanted to. Their contract with Scientific Games (the Williams/Bally rights holders) prohibits them from dropping the price of those tables or the table packs that contain them.

[@LastCallHall]

Bah! That sucks. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Time to get the tables I really want.

[@mikeyjdm]

Yeah screw Williams, they bought Ballys and then they dropped out of the game in 2001. Now all they do is make slot machines. I like some of the newer Stern tables but they feel kind of cheap to me. In my opinion the best Pinball tables were made by Williams and Ballys in the late eighties and all throughout the nineties, those tables just feel better made, better quality and I am said to see Farsight lose thier licensing with Williams, I have that app on my Ipad and I love it. I was always hoping that they would get to the Williams Indiana Jones table from 1993, I haven't been able to find that table around my town for a few years now, and I would love to have a virtual version. Sad.

[@ScottWozniak]

It's just "Bally." "Bally's" is a chain of hotels and casinos.

[@mikel6989]

Lets start a campaign to get pat unblocked

[@Spike223]

Why don't you talk about the retro game streamers on Twitch and KZbin? Like Hippokittie or somloi productions?

[@wasmadeinthe80s]

Windows 98 3D Pinball is best Pinball.

[@FirstPersonShitter]

pinball arcade best emulator 100 percent real feel physics but the updates were lazy and the pre-ordered dlc was always released too late or even not released at all. I think management is a mess in that company. i can understand pinball manufacturers had it. it's a shame

[@3rdaxis649]

Maybe if their product looked like something that wasn't made in 1995 they would still have it. lol. Seriously, with the game engines that are out today there was no excuse. I mean look at Visual Pinball X, it looks and plays way better then TPA and it's just Visual basic lol. Just lazy.

[@werdman24]

#GamesPreservation

[@matthewbryant2972]

Wait... What is this? I got the Frankenstein table which is sick... I have the Switch Pinball emularor... Guess this is not that.

[@bud9450]

😤😤😭😭

[@LinkMEP]

Nooooooooooooooo

[@Glitch_343]

F

[@theswapmeetflea]

N

[@ardvarkboy]

I

[@pulseweld]

cashgrab

[@turbografx7]

Chicago gaming company is making physical Bally williams games. Maybe that has something to do with it?

[@bungalowfeuhler1541]

Pinball Arcade meant so much to me. I’ve invested hundreds of dollars to be able to play these forever. They claim they will continue to support them, but I know that will turn out to be a lie. Counting down the days till they take my tables away. I know it’s coming. This breaks my heart.

[@Kate-E42]

*sadface*

[@QuietPandaMike]

Zen Pinball/ Pinball FX is much better, imo.

[@AceFondu]

I agree, better as a video game as it's more arcade-like.

[@Crator1000]

I love both and got all the tables. I enjoy Pinball Arcade a fair bit more though cause its actual tables.

[@QuietPandaMike]

Joe Monkee I just prefer Zen because I feel it's that it has more fluidity. Pinball arcade just feels 'off' to me.

[@Gigidag77]

welp, time to uninstal.

[@SecretlyStarscream]

Gigidag77 actually it'd be better if you don't uninstall... That way you keep the tables