Pinky power: how to tame and strengthen violin fourth finger

[@edwardemanuel1033]

I’ve got a wild 4th finger that seems to point upwards at random times. This has helped me keep it under control! Thanks!

[@deadmanswife3625]

Edward that just means you're polite when you're ready to have a cup of tea

[@edwardemanuel1033]

@@deadmanswife3625 thanks for the prompt reply

[@deadmanswife3625]

@@edwardemanuel1033 bwahahah

[@DanielKurganov]

Thanks for the great tips. Proper pinky usage is something I avoided for a while and then said "it's time". Was one of the best decisions I made. A few things I learned...and I would love to know your thoughts on these! 1.Use the pinky at every possibility. 2.Working on pinky vibrato, especially making sure that last finger joint is freely moving back and forth, strengthens the pinky in passagework as well. 3. There was a great exercise from Milstein for pinky problems. Basically, you take some Schradieck-esque passage in 1st position, ideally without using the 1st finger and play it normally, noticing whatever issues or weakness in the pinky. Then swap your hand from under the neck so that it now rests between your index and middle finger (no longer between thumb and index). This transforms the pinky's role, as it's closer to the fulcrum now. The pinky should feel stronger, and it will be easier to keep it curved and moving in the correct manner. You then try to repeat the passage (it won't be possible to use 1st finger now) with this superior feeling pinky. Then you quickly swap back to normal, and try to maintain the feeling. Going back and forth like that can be useful sensory trick.

[@rixu2671]

Sounds interesting! I'll try!

[@deadmanswife3625]

@@rixu2671 any luck?

[@StanglMusic]

Thanks, Nathan! Several years ago I had worked on strengthening my pinky, but it fell out since then. Your exercises brought it back quickly! Love your clarity of instruction.

[@ciorstaidhhill2050]

my fourth finger is genuinely 3 centimetres long, and im getting to the stage in my lessons where fourth finger should be second nature but it genuinely hurts to make that stretch, still going to work on this thank you for this video :-)

[@user-fb4bg9dr7l]

Same. I measured and it's around that size too. It locks up like crazy.

[@xhotdog100]

After seeing your comment, I went ahead and measured mine, 4.5.cm. Cannot believe what 3cm would be like. I have already hurt my pinky reaching for the 4th position on my violin. I have been playing the 4th position on the next string for weeks as a work around. (Also had to plat with only my right hand on piano for a week or so.) Wish I saw this video earlier to avoid the injury. I am 5 feet tall so I am actually playing on a 3/4 violin now. But that doesn't alleviate the 4th finger problem.

[@shiftfocus3583]

Thank you so much for teaching generously 🙏🏻🎻

[@aprilandarthursworld1769]

You're Ling Ling's Brother for sure. You're the best!

[@pavikichu1609]

Hmmm... A Twosetter...

[@lmao6405]

Now Twosetters are found everywhere 😂🎉

[@pavikichu1609]

@@lmao6405 We are gonna conquer the *WORLD* # twosetviola

[@sarahev.1087]

@@pavikichu1609 hahaha really?? Twoset "viola"? 🤧😂😂😂🤣

[@pavikichu1609]

@@sarahev.1087 😎😋😁😅 . . . . . And you have two accounts🧐...

[@BrawnyPony]

my pinky always shifts to the opposite direction of the violin. if all my fingers point South West to the violin my pinky just moves to the North West. i will start the tissue exercise today and hope for the best. i've been doing the tapping and string shifting thing for a while now. that helped me move my pinky faster to the other string and with more accuracy on the note placement. i always have to constantly focus on my pinky if i have to move it and keep it curved which can make it hard for a piece to enjoyable or just ruin the piece if i make a mistake

[@eggyegg7424]

I highly recommend bending at least a little bit the 4th finger since I recently developed a strain that'll probably never go away, because I was flattening it. Addressed this to my teacher multiple times since I started playing, but she never saw it necessary to fix this. It has always bothered and concerned me. Now it's the time it finally went wrong and I really suggest training it even if your teacher doesn't deem it important enough.

[@BeccaRoodleRoo]

Thank you so much for your videos, they are very helpful! I have been playing for 2 1/2 years, mainly self-taught with 3 in-person lessons this past year. I consult videos during practice, to help ensure proper form & technique. This video addresses exactly my issue when trying to incorporate my 4th finger. I am already using the exercises you mentioned. I look forward to more of your videos! :)

[@xiaoleideng]

Good video, thank you Nathan! I had issues with losing my hand shape (base knuckles drop down) and curve in my 4th finger when I stretch my index finger towards the scroll or move my middle finger, yes a flat minor can be problematic and also my go to scale for hand frame. I am not sure why but once I put the violin scroll against a wall, my hand frame and tension between thumb/index and violin neck becomes a lot better. I found it helpful to start my practice this way and try to replicate the feeling while playing normally.

[@bradykelso8682]

Excellent video. Thanks!

[@saramohamed.8403]

Thx for the exercises ❤️ I'll some today and some tomorrow 😊

[@michelgalland2457]

Très bonnes explications thank you

[@rixu2671]

Thank you so much for these tips. Big help! How to do pinky vibrato then?

[@mick3027-i4d]

Hi Nathan This is great thank you ! where were you when I was at the conservatorium 12 years ago!!!

[@paggieplays2797]

I'm excited to try out the tissue exercise! I play the viola, but my fingers are quite short. My pinky has always collapsed in a way, where the second joint is never activated. I struggle with arching the pinky as this has been an issue since I started playing. Any extra tips for that problem or should the tissue exercise do the trick? Thanks in advance 😊

[@SF-ru3lp]

Hi Paggie I have small hands and narrow finger tips. Over the last 2 years I've done a few things. One or two may be of interest. I bought a 7/8 size violin I got the strings 'dropped' (closer to fingerboard) I got the strings set closer together I shifted the 'balance' of my hand forward to the middle 2 fingers I do finger 'stomping' and 'sliding' exercises every day I practice (both all on same string and with the active finger on other strings). This is v gd. I played lots of studies (basic ones but used 4th finger for each open string). I played these basic studies keeping all my fingers down as far as possible all the time and only moving the finger that is playing the next note. I practiced vibrato exercises every day for 1 minute (all I could manage but it helped). I press a Gripmaster every day before starting to practice (also another hand 'clencher') but Mr. Cole's Gripmaster exercises are more powerful and focused. The next video coming up is from Dr. Lynn Kuo. I think she may have one or two extra exercises... That's my list Paggie... albeit a few years after your question. Very best regards. G Ire (adult student)😢

[@robi8279]

Thank you! By the end of this video my 4th finger was curved! I'm adding this to my daily practice!

[@Olivman84]

Why is my violin teacher never telling me any of that kind of stuff!?🙄 I thumbed up and subscribed!👍🦁

[@ErikSvansbo]

Thank you nate! Especially for that last comment. My pinky is angled towards the other fingers and I have found it really hard to shape it like the other fingers.

[@mga440]

Thank you Nathan for the excellent video. I'm currently being taught the rocking left arm technique but will now consider the finger reach model you advocate as well. I'm having an issue I'm hoping you might be able to address. I'm not having too much difficulty with the fourth finger placement per se. But I seem to have an issue with the third finger. If I place 1,2,3,4 on B, C#, D., E on the A string, the 3 is inevitably pulled sharp. I can easily finger B, C#, D#, E. It seems to be the link between fingers 3 and 4 that pulls 3 along for the ride. Playing up the scale is fine but to descend. I have to pull the third finger back down the fingerboard next to the second finger. It's fine with slow scales but fast scales or trills... Forget it.

[@user-fb4bg9dr7l]

I'm the person with a pinky so short it won't curve at all. It locks up and it's starting to make my hands really sore. Thank you for this! Ever since this quarantine I haven't been able to communicate with my teacher, and you're the best I got lol. Also, my pinky is always, even when I'm not playing with it, completely straight in the air. My sister who plays piano does this too. It's terribly difficult to overcome.

[@milliem9816]

I have the same thing! I actually found out there's a name for this: flexor digitarum superficialis. I'm trying to find exercises that help. Do these help? Have you found anything that helps?

[@user-fb4bg9dr7l]

@@milliem9816 I just practiced and it got a bit better. Also I never knew that it had a name! But yeah it's still rough, using my 4th finger feels like I'm shifting sometimes.

[@user-fb4bg9dr7l]

@@milliem9816 Also I used the tissue exercise from time to time and I think it helped a bit. I'd just say that practicing and not getting inside your head would be the best thing you could do.

[@robsonalfieri4747]

Great video. Make one with tips about pinky vibrato on G string and high position

[@natesviolin]

That's a tall order! I try not to do those three things at once, but occasionally it will happen...

[@natesviolin]

This is a Stradivari on loan from the LA Philharmonic.

[@natesviolin]

Really happy for you, thanks!

[@elguy749]

Very useful instructions. Thank you.

[@leiicass]

Thanks for this! My fourth finger is really small so when I strech it, my third finger goes a little bit to close to the 4th and the 2nd goes closer to the first and the first is out of tune and then everything sound out of tune

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Thank you! As usual top content presented in a very nice way! Btw. Do you play an Oliv a-string? Just curious :)

[@natesviolin]

My G, D, and A are Pirastro Passione.

[@SimonStreuffViolinEducation]

Thank you! Never tried them yet. Definitely on my to do list, since I loved to play on Olivs and Oliv-stiffs a lot!

[@xinyuzhu2086]

Thank you!! Always helping!

[@williambradford3627]

VERY helpful!! What violin are you using in this lesson?

[@kavishkabartlett4261]

This video was so helpful! Thank you so much. Do you lift the pinky with the knuckle?

[@safejas]

Thanks Nathan! I look forward to the next video of yours.

[@MeadowlarkViolin]

Great video! Thanks for the tips!

[@somerjordan6947]

I really like the way you teach. Thank you.

[@chanijacob5781]

Thank you very much!

[@marlymarmala91]

I really appreciate your excellent videos!!

[@ivanmcdrago]

Thank you Nathan. Really well presented and clear. Been struggling with 4th finger for years so gonna try this out.

[@danielbelmir0]

Did it work?

[@joykuoviolin]

I love your very helpful videos so much! Thank you for doing them😊 My 4th finger usually is okay, but when it gets to the high G or above on the E string then it becomes a problem that I very often need to use the 3rd finger instead, and it limits my choices of the fingerings for the high positions. I am not sure if it is because my pinky is shorter or I don’t have the right hand frame up there. Does anyone have any suggestions? I would be really appreciate 😊

[@natesviolin]

Those with shorter pinkies will more often choose other fingers in those high positions. That’s just reality! Without seeing you play it’s impossible to say, but take a look at videos of violinists you admire and make a note of how extended their 4th fingers are, what the angle of the fingertip is (how upright), etc.

[@joykuoviolin]

@@natesviolin Thank you so much for your reply. I actually have been observing how your left hand shape is when it gets to the high positions especially when you played the La Mer excerpt. I will keep exploring and trying!

[@rayseymour9877]

its not about the forth finger being week its about the other three fingers being relaxed when u press the pinky down

[@abolfazlmc9947]

Thanks sir this video helps me so much.

[@cocainehemp4700]

Thanks for your video so much！After do these exercises my pinky can stand up!

[@bluecosmo.]

now that i have started to control my fourth finger to be more curved it wants to go flat pitchwise 😭 any tips on getting the third and fourth finger to separate comfortable?

[@yutengma]

great video thanks for the help! I always suffered from my double jointed hands and I have found resolve for my 4th finger that never adapted correctly.

[@lynnrixson3013]

Wonderful as usual ....

[@SR-jg3bp]

I canr have much gap between my pinky and ring finger when playing the violen. Hopefully this helps

[@bachakademieaustralia6219]

Thanks Nathan! I found this very useful indeed.

[@Plathianloner]

Very helpful, thank you

[@DivaDeb1234]

I have the curve but I feel like I have to press really hard to get the tone I want.

[@DivaDeb1234]

Same

[@teachersparker]

I can’t seem to do it which is why i gave up after play over 7 years. My pinky locks up and is straight... it won’t curve.

[@jobrycimafrancacrossovervi1477]

thanks for this video! this helped me a lot. btw do you have a video how to practice trills? and vibrato of 4th finger on high positions. thank you!

[@natesviolin]

As to the vibrato specifically for 4 in high positions, not yet! Although my video on flexible vibrato still applies up high. Just make sure your arm is not so far "around" that your hand is way above the instrument. This makes the finger too steep and difficult to vibrate. If you watch my Don Juan video you'll see my hand position for 4th finger up high. For trills, in this video at 9:20 I start getting the 4th finger note shorter and shorter. This would be the start of a trill exercise, but I would also do it in different rhythms. I do plan a trill video!

[@jobrycimafrancacrossovervi1477]

Nathan Cole cant wait for your next videos! 😎

[@jobrycimafrancacrossovervi1477]

Nathan Cole yes please! My trills are terrible.

[@andreseduardomostajomichel4156]

Yes, Nathan posted there videos of trills! You have to watch them, they are really useful!

[@chris2442uk]

Hi Nathan. I was taught (and have been teaching) to move your left arm when crossing strings, rather than reaching with your fingers. This was to aid intonation. Do you feel that this is wrong?

[@NathanMeltzer]

Thank you!

[@RayPlusTV]

Hey Nathan, I am a violinist in CKYO Symphony. I'm sure you know this youth orchestra since you're a Kentuckian and student of Mason. I need some help with my third and fourth finger they both lean inward like your pinky. it is so hard to play in higher positions cause of the leaning and with lack of mobility on my thumb and my short fingers/arms. If you could give me some tips it would be really appreciated!

[@yeetyoink2236]

I have a viola and my pinky is REALLY SMALL. This video isn’t really helping and it’s really hard for me to do fourth finger. I literally have to bend my arm REALLY far to even be able to touch the fourth position. Please help, what should I do?

[@natesviolin]

With viola and an especially small pinky, your hands may be tied, so to speak. You may need to limit when you use the fourth finger, and you may need to make compromises (such as not insisting on a curved pinky in the first place)!

[@amorosocadenza-violincover2268]

Very nice, Sir

[@micahretief7893]

My fourth finger is slightly curved towards my third

[@biancawesley-smith4794]

This is great, thank you so much!

[@mrpinguspenguin672]

My pinky gets 'locked' when I try to play 4th finger because it's double jointed and I literally can't move it

[@FU6713]

When I play, only the first segment of my pinky finger bends whilst the rest of the other 2 segments remain straight or bent the other way round. Is that normal?

[@Donutters]

same but after i adjusted my wrist near the neck then like what he said u can put ur string near ur nail then i did it lmao I'm still practicingg for vibrato tho, Goodluck!

[@DominicProMax]

Can't seem to figure out how to get my 5th finger to behave :/

[@And777_mgn]

Great video as ever! So it reminds me to "Urstudien", what do You think about them? And more, I tried very interesting especially when you talk about the "correct"position; Just I ever tried to "follow" the design of the other fingers, tried to keeping the "same way", the same perspective. My 4h finger is short and go in the "wrong way", it seems it can be good! it was a revelation

[@natesviolin]

Yes for me too it was great to discover that it was "OK" to just put my finger where it wanted to go! The lifting motion however, I had to change, and that was a good change. As to the Urstudien, I love them! They are similar in nature to Simon Fischer's book Warming Up, which is more compact and I believe more elegant.

[@And777_mgn]

Nathan Cole so I'm going to try them; I didn't know! Great!, Thank you very much for your precious things! Ever

[@floatingorenda4832]

im going to change the shape of my fourth after 15 years of playing .wish me luck

[@daniellenew6073]

Helpful

[@aleziotara2598]

Thanks! I Saw all your videos and I hope you will keep doing them. I have a question. I started again practicing (after this video) the kreutzer n. 9 and sometimes (not always) at around 140 with metronome I cannot control well the finger. It is not always but I cannot be faster than 140. Some tips? And then what do you think could be the fastest metronome speed of this exercise?

[@DivaDeb1234]

I am at the point that I think pinky is holding me back !!

[@shailebeth]

Hey I know this sounds absurd but I know you can lengthen parts of your body, like people in tribal communities stretch their necks and a friend of mine did stretching exercises and she was actually taller than me!! She used to be shorter than me! I wonder if you can do that then you can probably lengthen your pinky finger by doing stretching exercises? I wonder if this is possible?

[@chibimoon1432]

i don't think you can, you'd literally be pulling the limb out of its socket. even in those tribal communities they're not actually stretching their necks it's just an illusion. they're really just shoving their collar bone downward over time.

[@pswapnavaruna7353]

nice

[@jonahmenikoff1997]

i play viola but my pinky is double jointed

[@deboramaccio7463]

HOLA GRACIAS SOS LO MÁS

[@nicolasmartinssantos1815]

Great video! Who is the maker of your violin? Wonderful color and shape....

[@thoyo]

Hi Nathan, do you still do private Skype lessons?

[@alinparcalab7269]

what strings are those white strings ?

[@natesviolin]

ALin Parcalab Looks like my reply went to the wrong place, they are Pirastro Passione.

[@playwithpar]

he is like simon

[@spatin51]

I tried to subscribe and to receive all notifications from Nathan Cole videos. KZbin would not let me activate the bell to the right of the subscribe button because of some "made for kids" program. Does anyone know about this? It is absurd. Nathan's violin videos are definitely not directed to "made for kids" programming.

[@shivamansouri4367]

keep it up I like you vid

[@Tritone]

The secret to fourth finger vibrato is to keep the third finger down when you vibrate your fourth.

[@khern4747]

I play viola so fourth finger is definitely tormenting

[@tylervoyer74]

SassyGiraffe , not if you practice ;)) i play a 16.5” viola and it’s no problem now.

[@khern4747]

Tyler Voyer I’m currently practicing wolfhardt etudes and it’s getting a lot better :)!

[@meikeuntari392]

Soo dificult😰😭

[@babigirl9111]

Dude your hand is wide as the violin neck is long.... how is this supposed to help the people with smaller hands? I can’t reach as far as you..

[@stariix5143]

2:35 when he starts

[@rayseymour9877]

not diggin it bro...stop trying to teach things to people the way YOU learned

[@Otri86]

Thank you 😃