Safety move eliminates violin bow shakes

Every violinist, from Heifetz on down, has come down with a case of "the shakes". Nerves happen, and the design of the modern bow makes it all too easy for unwanted shakes and bounces to derail those slow, soft notes that you want to play. But I have a safety move that can stop the shakes in their tracks.

[@sculean]

what your looking for starts at 6:20

[@CosmosFiddler]

I REALLY like the way you add in the thought processes of a performing violinist. I can so, so, so identify. It is hard to separate our worth from our ability, and so many young teachers haven't taught long enough to be able to offer more than what's on the page and maybe a little more. Having tools that solve psychological battles we all have as violin players is really original. Very good.

[@natesviolin]

+CosmosFiddler Thank you for this note!

[@anwar4080]

i agree!

[@davidjohnston5572]

CosmosFiddler q

[@paigebuursma5699]

Nathan, THANK YOU for sharing this! My tremor gets totally out of control whenever I get the slightest surge in adrenaline, and over the years my hands have started over-compensating by seizing up and I lose all the flexibility I need to play in the lower half of the bow. It's really crippling- even when I take beta blockers, the tension is still there. Until now the best advice anyone's been able to offer is "just try to relax," (If only it were that easy in the moment) and I am so glad to finally hear some sound technical advice that doesn't include the word "relax."

[@connorhlane]

I know I’m six years late, but your situation is exactly what happens to me. I’ll do all this fantastic chord work, left-hand pizz., ric. bows, but as soon as I get to a largo passage, my bow starts bouncing on the string-it’s sooooo embarrassing. And I’ve also overcompensated by going to the tip. Have the things he’s suggested helped in the long run?

[@bluemoon7378]

its my amateur way of doing vibrato :)

[@trock111jomy]

Lol..I always thought of it as..ehy can't we use this as vibrato

[@rainier_graeme_nii]

Haha.

[@MyDyingDoom]

Thank you for a very detailed analysis of bow shaking. Very easy to understand. And your humour makes the video even more enjoyable!

[@str3123]

I've been playing viola since 14 years, taking beta-blockers since 4/5 years. Although I study with one of the best violist in the world, I still struggle with performance anxiety exactly because of the problem you describe here. I already do, unconsciously, what you suggest but I never knew why or how to do it effectively. Thank you very VERY much for uploading this: can't wait to try it out... Best regards!

[@natesviolin]

+str3123 Thanks so much! Hope it's helpful!

[@exitolaboral]

Very detailed explanation, helps a lot! The practical examples are very important.

[@aychpii]

OMG.... U R BRILLIANT! i had wondered what the purpose/ effect of the bow- tilt- little did i know, it woukd be the answer to my worst fear! from this day forth, i will be a bow-shaker no more! thank you thank you thank you! will be watching more of your videos & look forward to your wisdom :)

[@JonKovach]

I was under the impression that adding tension to the hand is not a good idea and that the problem is actually in a tense shoulder and arm. My teacher taught me to practice with a very light weight wrapped around my elbow and practice like that for a bit then take it off and your arm feels much more relaxed and eventually your arm learns to stay in that relaxed state. Similar to how a baseball player uses a weight during practice swings. Helps your arm drop smoothly rather than all tensed up.

[@dorgana68]

Nathan, thank you so much for this tip! I practice so much, and so focused to get rid of the damn bow shake, and yes, it makes me want to throw both violin and bow out the window. But of course I don't, so I keep practicing your tip. It works. Thank you!!

[@WordDrivenMinisteringtheWord]

😀

[@firevulkannn3584]

I was always taught to tilt the stick when playing soft but I never wouldve thought to tilt it more when I'm still bouncing

[@raharaha5688]

wonderful point of view ... the combination of physics and music ....!!!

[@randifishenfeld]

THANK YOU!!!! I practice after morning coffee (OY!) Very shaky bow arm (can't give up my morning coffee) Also get very nervous when performing slow classical solos in front of an audience. Viscous cycle, the more you're aware of it, the worse it gets. Luckily, I play mostly improvisational fusion, rock, blues and jazz so I don't shake there (louder playing due to louder bands thus more bow pressure) This video was VERY helpful!

[@houseofbluebliss]

That was fantastic, so helpful!! Really well presented too.

[@natesviolin]

+Blue Bliss Thank you!

[@nanxi1211]

This really helps! Have been having this problem with a solo long note in Gershwin's American in Paris, shaking in front of the whole orchestra is not a pretty sight...But the bow tilt really does help a lot! Thank you so much! Great video!

[@ekklectriccurrent2094]

Thank you, Nathan! I look forward to incorporating this into my daily Simon Fischer Tone Production exercises. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos!

[@maestromusicteacher3922]

Thanks Nate...I really appreciate your excellent instructional videos!

[@natesviolin]

Hi Daniel, I use this move on whatever string may be the issue. I only do it when necessary though. So there's no rule about having to do it any time you play on a certain string. Hope this helps!

[@joelkang7113]

Hello Mr. Cole, I do not know if you are still active on this channel, but I had a sectional with you at the Colburn School. I didn’t know that you had a channel, but I am pretty greatful that you did so. Thank you for the advice both here and at my rehearsal.

[@ivanmcdrago]

Gonna start trying this. Had a bit of a nightmare other day starting a piece. Not difficult piece at all but nervous and just finished playing a faster piece segue straight into slower piece. Adrenaline pumping had zero control and sounded awful at beginning. Needed something like this little trick to anchor onto as it was only the shakiness of the bow which I was fearing the most. Its ok practicing at home as nobody is watching but when pressure is on need a secret weapon I think and I’m sure you’re right that even the best get nervous. Thank you for the advice. I’ve just subscribed and wish you great success. 👍

[@acomposer2489]

Well explained says Diablofex. Excellent.

[@dizzyfeed3288]

A great tip, thanks Nathan, brilliant. I was sitting behind the concertmaster during a performance of Dvorak's Symphony 7, the slow movement (which is heaven) has MANY places where 'the stick shake' can happen. I wish I'd seen this thread, I simply stopped playing for fear of making a hideous chattering. Brilliant tip.

[@natesviolin]

+dizzyfeed For next time then! There are so many moments like that in orchestra, so try it out and see what you think.

[@jsreaves1019]

I was playing Meditation for my teacher yesterday. It begins softly, on a down bow. I was a little nervous and had 2 cups of coffee on board. No surprise, then, that my bow started shaking. This trick is really helpful!

[@natesviolin]

Haha! Perfect proving ground for the "safety move". Glad it helped.

[@musica201196]

Very good! your are th best explicacion about problem !

[@daleturner]

AWESOME!!!!! (Junkie XL sent me, haha! You were mentioned in his interview vid w/Rick Beato, yesterday.) Fantastic instruction, maestro!!!!

[@ElenaLukinaEL]

Thank you so much, Nathan !

[@marcogabbarini7105]

Amazing Nathan

[@fateindustry]

It happened at my last audition few days ago. 1st excerpt out of the 4 that I had to play live, I had bouncy bow playing a slow Mozart that required bow control. The jitters eventually go away after the 1st excerpt, but it can cost the violinist an audition. The scary part is to go full bow from Lower Half to tip, and Back to the frog. This was the first part of mozart 39 1st mvmt at 1/8 about 76.

[@natesviolin]

Sorry about the unpleasant audition experience! Many times it seems terrible to you but not very noticeable to a committee. This has helped get me out of some jams.

[@pchandler4952]

Excellent. I'll try this and thanks. I have actually found myself unconsciously stopping the bow when it gets to that location on a donwbow for fear of starting the bounce. I've also noticed that dropping a finger, say the 2nd, on the fingerboard at the exact time the bow passes that spot, will kick off the bounce. My question is why this phenomenon only occurs at this one particular location on the bow and why only on the downbow. I believe the problem is one of physics and specifically of mechanical resonance of the arm/bow/string system. The downbow places a different vertical load on the string than the upbow; that fact combined with the stiffness of the bow/hair system at that exact point on the stick and with the stiffnessss of the string will cause the system to go into mechanical resonance. I am planning a series of experiments to try and change the parameters of the system (stiffness and/or mass) that directly affect the bounce in an attempt to reduce the bounce. One example of this is loosening the bow hair to the point where there is no bounce. That reduces the bow's contribution to the overall k in the sqrt(k/m) equation away from resonance but as you know it also makes the bow unusable for most types of music. I don't think the bouncing can be eliminated but I believe it can be reduced to the point of inaudiblity. I'll report back here when I get some progress. Thanks.

[@camtothemax]

The bow shakes at the point where I start bending my elbow and stop using my upper arm. How do I train this transition to be smoother?

[@rubaabdul7931]

You described my problem precisely..

[@deltatropie3571]

Finally something that works

[@mzaragoza03]

very good info.. I'll give it a try...

[@peymanalijany5253]

Thank you thank you thank you 🙂👌🦋⚘

[@gabeg9653]

And now i have another issue: violin shakes when doing vibrato. It feels so out of control. Any tips?

[@DeniseAWright]

That probably means that you are using your left hand to support the violin instead of letting your chin and shoulder do the work. Can you hold the violin in place without your left hand touching it?

[@fedegroxo]

@@DeniseAWright A lot of violinists play without a shoulder rest and have a great vibrato. The violin doesn't have to be held solely by the chin / shoulder

[@DeniseAWright]

@@fedegroxo I know they do. You can still support the violin entirely with your shoulder and chin without a shoulder rest. Those who usually use their hand to support most of the violin will stop while shifting or during vibrato. Because how is something that's shaking gonna support something with stability?

[@qltygrl3187]

I hope this helps me! I have a new bow that’s lighter than I’m used to and I get a lot of bounce going from the E string to the A. Mainly somewhere between the frog and middle of the bow.

[@emadnekooie5337]

Insted of doing this what about bring your violin little up while your bow is starting shaking ??i mean the scroll of violin??

[@anwar4080]

Thankyou!!!

[@AndrewPooleTodd]

2:10 can you describe how you bounce the bow like this for so long?

[@natesviolin]

Andrew Poole Todd It's one of those not-so-useful things but it does show off how springy the bow is! I always start it in the middle of the bow, about halfway between the bridge and fingerboard. I start it quite close to the string and let the bouncing begin. The "trick" then is to maintain the exact same slow bow speed and the exact same pressure with the right hand. Once you find the combination, you can bounce it like that for a minute or more!

[@arianealexander4511]

so is this the same technique heifetz uses in hora staccato? you can see in the overhead view that he angles out the bow and changes his hold when he plays it

[@ElsweyrDiego]

Me too think heifetz use some kind of trick like that, i just don't see his hand movint the 'normal' way for staccato, his hand just keep smoothly all the notes.

[@Danhan12341]

Hi, thanks for posting this video. I've been trying to find ways to fix my bow from bouncing whenever I use the whole bow; my bow usually bounces whenever I bow from the middle to the tip of the violin. Ex. Whenever I practice whole note scales. I have one questions though. Do you usually curve the bow with all the strings to stop the bouncing, because I'm sometimes confused that whether you're suppose to curve your boe whenever you play in the G and E string?

[@myviolinprogresschannel1209]

alright, alright, i'll subscribe!

[@BarroqueSpirit]

Excelente!

[@violinphelan]

I could still hear the tiny shake at the top end of the now though

[@angelfire1122]

I find that when I play at different venues my bow arm shakes more than when I play at known venues. Do you think that it is my nerves?

[@natesviolin]

For sure! Even time of day makes a difference for many folks, including me. Any variable may make the situation seem less comfortable.

[@AkantorDrumer]

very good man ty

[@mypianofavourites1635]

Dear Violin Tutor... FAB Video I am Shopping for A VIOLIN BRIDGE....mine having broke THREE Times Yesterday whist playing Expressive FORTE Chords in Bach's Adagio. Please tell me....WHICH MAKE of Violin Bridge do you use or recommend... And Do YOU use a Violin "E" String Bridge Protector...either Plastic or Ebony?? PLUS...Violin Bridge Protector-- Should I/one AVOID bridges with "Protector inserts"... because they don’t sound as good as solid maple bridge???? Thank you in anticipation of a response Posted on 3rd August 2015 +++++

[@natesviolin]

+My Piano Favourites Hi, I'm sorry that I missed your questions until now... they were filed as spam for some reason. The bridge on my violin is by Josef Teller. I've actually never broken a bridge, much less three times in a day! So you should definitely check with someone to take a look at your setup. I do not use a bridge protector or insert except for parchment that's placed on top of the bridge. I would not use one with an insert.

[@SarumChoirmaster]

A strong double stops routine can solve this problem.

[@vickdays]

Hi Nathan, Love your videos, you help me a lot! My biggest problem is in the tip, when I am nervous my bow starts to bow on the tip, should I use the same rolling techinque to solve it? Greetings from Colombia.

[@natesviolin]

This can help at the tip, yes. One other thing to look at is the overall firmness of your fingers on the bow. Sometimes people try to hold the bow so lightly that they lose control. Of course, others hold too tight. Finally, I like a bow hold that lets the fingers curve (in other words, the stick is not far away from the hand).

[@janpipal9500]

the moment i start playing the concerts i feel headpressure, dizziness ,bowshakes too ,but i don´t panic, is it treatable?

[@Nockiz3]

Hi Nathan! I'm a violin student who's applying to college next year and wanted to upgrade from my 250 euro pernambuco bow to something a bit better (I bought this bow from my teacher, he used it for quite some time). I was wondering if you have any tips on what to search for, any deal breakers, any thing in specific to look for, you know? Because every bow I try will feel diferent and better from the one I currently have. Also, this thing you do of bouncing the bow forever without doing anything with the hand besides the inicial bounce, is that something a bad bow wont do, should I learn to do that and use it to test bows? Thank you for the videos, they're really amazing and very helpfull, took a lot of tips from your NY Audition videos :D P.s. Sorry for the long coment

[@natesviolin]

Thanks for checking out my videos, glad they've been helpful! The "endless" bouncing thing is something most bows can do, but it's not essential for everyday playing. I suppose I would wonder "what's wrong" if a bow couldn't do that, but I've never tested a bow in that way. There are two sides to the bow equation, how it sounds and how it feels... Both can be tough to judge "under the ear". Sound because of course that can change once you get a few feet away. And feel because we are usually predisposed to like bows that are like ones we already play. So I would advise taking a teacher or trusted colleague with you to try bows.

[@lynnrixson3013]

Hello Nathan, I have just subscribed. I'm not an experienced player but even when I'm playing myself, therefore not nervous, my bow shakes if I start a down bow after finishing on a down bow. In other words, I've lifted the bow to start a down bow again. I thought I was clumsy and maybe heavy handed, but I am still trying to rectify this. I have watched you video in smooth bow changes too. Do you think it's just practice and more practice? Thank you

[@natesviolin]

Practice helps everything, I suppose! But one thing to watch for is that your "circle" that brings you back to the frog for the next down bow matches the sound you are about to make. You never want hesitation before you start the sound. I assume you are talking mostly about slower down bows that shake. In this case, make sure that you time the circle to arrive just when you want the sound to start. There will be momentary contact between hair and string before the motion starts, but so momentary that it's pretty much instantaneous. You can incorporate the technique from that other video (soft starts/smooth bow changes) with that as well. The circle will bring the bow to just above the string, and lifting the instrument could start the next slow down bow.

[@lynnrixson3013]

Nathan Cole Thank you so much. Advice is appreciated. I guess also that I'm being mentally negative and thinking it's going to happen .... and it does !! I will work at it as it's my biggest monster at the moment. Thank you again....

[@natesviolin]

Sure thing... and you're right, sometimes just getting a bit more confidence (even if it's from a "trick") means that it's less likely to happen, which builds more confidence, etc. Eventually you make the subtle physical changes that make it even less likely to be a nuisance. But still never fully defeated, even for the best players!

[@lynnrixson3013]

Nathan Cole thank you very much.

[@richardsvarghese7157]

When i twist my bow it get less grip in frog and feel falling from string sometimes

[@natesviolin]

I would only do "the move" temporarily to get out of a tight spot, then resume as normal.

[@cipheraltura2202]

Sir, is this the Milstein Stradivarius?

[@Akeruyri]

The Large object has more inertia so its harder to move than a smaller object

[@pancakesak47]

no inertia has nothing to do with volume

[@bakirev]

+Imagine Kam It has to do with mass though

[@paularnold9009]

Simon/Vuillaume picture bow?

[@mukeshkanna1975]

Thanks for ur great secret it works 👍

[@alexandretodorovic5950]

GO TO THE PÖINT HAAAAA

[@luis-mel9631]

traduccion al español por favor

[@csmihaly]

Love the intelligent, -- scientific if you will, -- articulate, calm presentation... Mind- body, neuro-muscular... Looks simple, probably takes long time to ... Click..

[@ssdpr6825]

Hey Nathan what string do u use?

[@natesviolin]

+김진수 I use Pirastro Passione. They're gut core strings.

[@asadyamin4867]

It hasn't afflicted Ling Ling...

[@marks9618]

Ling ling gives the orchestra shaky bow when he plays the solo

[@asadyamin4867]

@@marks9618 Lol I had an audition 1 hr ago and my bow has never gotten shaky but this time it did and I messed my 4 octave scales up and also accidentally played Mozart next to my bridge oh how nice.

[@marks9618]

Asad Yamin oof. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sure you did great, though!

[@asadyamin4867]

@@marks9618 I hope

[@asadyamin4867]

@@marks9618 I don't know why I'm back here but I got into the highest orchestra!! (Found out 2 hrs ago)

[@jmg1884]

?????

[@Rossmancer]

This trick is awesome but how can we play the violin without having to rely on this trick? Great violin players don't have to roll their bows to eliminate bow bouncing. They just don't have that problem. I wonder why? What are they doing differently?

[@kevinlam1956]

Ross Fox you can press down with your pointer finger to give more weight to the string, preventing the bow from bouncing off the stribg

[@Sungha-im5df]

Playback speed 1.5x....

[@user-ps8gt2gp1l]

06:00

[@viasevenvai]

easier to just get a coffee

[@lilnova3146]

I found this looking for TikTok's "I bet he doesn't kiss ya" on violin. OK, youtube...

[@user-hw4nr7ue9h]

background in this video looks like ukraininan flag

[@natesviolin]

True! Never noticed that…

[@user-hw4nr7ue9h]

@@natesviolin as they say, text is always read in context :)

[@gera13sa]

Казалось бы...

[@Hongchen1105]

100000000000000000000 likes

[@lifeisbeautiful7824]

lateral thinking

[@w8sted1]

The bow shakes when you are not balancing the bow properly in the hand to produce the sound that you want.. ie holding the bow like you are playing heavy when the sound you want is light. Your idea of "adding work for the muscles" is the wrong path..

[@ElsweyrDiego]

but he plays bautifully nonetheless, this trick is what he choose for him and worked out, so he ask us to try this too. if doesn't work for you, ok. for someone this will work. just simple.

[@sidhudalwinder]

You are least practical rather takativr

[@davidramos4707]

7:21 spoiler alert Secret move