Dumbest Source Engine Arguments

This video sat in the junkyard playlist for a year because it didn't feel up to standard, until I decided to add in one more story which was good, but at the time still felt too recent to feel right to include. The third story was replaced with a new one, and it knocks the video out of the park for me.
00:00 Intro
01:07 Half-Life 2 Does Has Bullet Penetration
03:33 Zombie spawns?
06:17 A strange edit
This video's subtitles took 94 minutes.

[@Pinsplash]

13:24 by the way when i said "literally all visibility optimization" i seriously meant that, cause brushes are the only thing that block visibility from one visleaf to another

[@poke548]

Can't wait to see that guy's game completed. "Well, you see, if you'd gone to game college and kept a bunch of links to random Blender tutorials in your back pocket you might know that modern game design doesn't even use visleaves anymore, so I don't need to worry about splitting them up. Also, my map isn't leaking, the lighting is just supposed to look like that."

[@simonsoupshark8009]

is there a story behind that "oh fucking brother" after he mentions auto cad?

[@LinkiePup]

As far as I am aware this is because displacements are invisible to Vvis, and are considered “non-solid” for that, and is also the reason why it can cause leaks if they’re used to attempt to seal a map. Since they only have the one visible face, too. Also, fun fact: in portal if you have a displacement next to a wall that can hold a portal, shoot a portal, then try to step through, you’ll fall through the displacement. Guess the engine checks to see if the surface under the player is solid, and because displacements aren’t technically a solid- have fun slipping through the floor!

[@BenLubar]

I'm learning so much from this video! Did you know that brushes and sides of brushes are names for the same thing? Which means that brushes are infinite-dimension shapes I guess?

[@NoVIcE_Source]

@@simonsoupshark8009 I think because he mentioned college

[@notthefox]

The fact that Valve employee literally lock the page is so funny

[@antlionworkerfan2007]

They should really get some IP ban system like Wikipedia has so that morons like HammerEditor can’t just create loads of accounts

[@tf_d]

yk times are tough when employees start locking threads

[@wuketuke6601]

That guy really actively made the world a worse place

[@C.A._Old]

Yeah i agree that.

[@bluegum6438]

@@wuketuke6601 It's almost scary how single-minded he was about being completely pants-on-head nonsensically wrong. They had to lock the goddamn page to stop this nutter.

[@IsolationStreams]

"your idealism is a epic failure" bro thought he was a philosopher with that line💀

[@redwiltshire1816]

GOOGLE TRANSLATE: bad idea He really did lol

[@kyIesaurus____________________]

Mf forgot that it's not "a", it's "an". Eh, I'm not surprised about these "pro" anyway.

[@joecobb4604]

he should be embarrassed for trying to sound like he’s some smartass with that quip

[@auramaster2068]

I’m gonna start using that

[@SeedemFeedemRobots]

it was in 2008, which was the style at the time

[@Blixibon]

The displacement guy also edited the response at 18:28 to say "dill" instead of "hill", and then the Valve employee reverted that too

[@Wheagg]

why would you even do that

[@clamdove3292]

@@Wheagg i guess they liked pickles

[@arranberns4073]

based

[@eggonog]

The editing of the end segment, where it keeps fading out to black and then revealing that the guy made another alt, was perfect

[@Nessinby]

I was expecting another "made an alt and edited it [or another page]" after the page got locked. It's sad that trolls like that can ruin wikis and the ability for people to contribute to information sources like that.

[@FranciscoFJM]

You could make an infinite loop of that and i would still laugh

[@Emm1lyn]

@@FranciscoFJM _downloads this video and opens up a video editing tool_

[@christopherm4739]

One year later, he came back on a new account, made a whole new page, and got banned again. (Made up)

[@nuxx1876]

@@christopherm4739 ........Five months later, he came back on a new account, edited other pages that had nothing to do with displacements, and got banned again, resulting in the entire wiki being locked indefinitely. Seven hours later, he went on Wikipedia under the same name, edited the page for the Source Engine, and got banned again.

[@sorrydudebros]

Actually, HammerEditor was right the whole time. Because *proceeds to write mostly random gibberish and link to a random page because it has the number 69 in it*

[@Intrusive_Thought878]

the first sentence gave me a cold sweat

[@scarletcrusader5431]

They had me at the first half

[@ZuraTheCat]

For a guy named Hammer editor, he sure does not understand that the sources he's linking to is, in fact not hammer

[@Maximum432]

@@ZuraTheCat He's called HammerEditor because he used a hammer to edit the shape of his skull.

[@ZuraTheCat]

@@Maximum432 I guess he's trying to add some wrinkles to his smooth brain

[@Templarfreak]

sometimes, i make claims about things. and sometimes, i wonder to myself if they might be a bit outlandish, or come off as stupid, or arrogant, or, worst of all, that the claims are just plain wrong. this video has really put into perspective to me that i am *nowhere near* as bad as i _could be._

[@Noxedwin]

You can do it if you set your mind to it, I believe in you. Don't let your dreams stay dreams. For real, though, I've fought and bled on a hill or two before. But not "made three alts to continue the beef that the site has decided-by-committee is only a product of me being tragically wrong" bled.

[@PlayerZeroStart]

@@Noxedwin Yeah! Be the worst "you" you can be! Be the change nobody wants to see in the world!

[@FiksIIanzO]

It's really simple. You don't even need to be a moron in order to be like those folks. Just stop accepting any and all criticism, internal _or_ external, of your own thoughts. Make what you think what _is._ If someone challenges your way of seeing the world, go to hell and back to shut them up, from actual counter arguments if applicable, to tangents and distractions, to ad hominims if all else fails. _Never_ admit being wrong, go through as much mental gymnastics as you have to in order to twist your words around other people's inarguable facts as you can - that part is actually surprisingly easy, especially if you're well educated, because then you can effectively throw pseudoscientific babble into people's eyes and some might actually think that you know what you're talking about. Make yourself infallable in your own eyes, and soon you will start spewing bullshit on all kinds of topics.

[@G.A.N.]

Displacements part is so hillarious. Typical drama between discussing Modern standards VS historical facts.

[@FiksIIanzO]

This wasn't even an argument of modern standards, it was a person arguing that displacements in Source games are not displacements, but generic nameless meshes. Dude literally got banned four times over an "um, ackshually 🤓" definitions argument. Hilarious. Or at least I think that's what it was all about. If it wasn't then it makes even less sense to me, and it already made little.

[@trashrabbit69]

@@FiksIIanzO It's close enough. The reason you can't make sense of it is because its nonsense. Pure word salad. I'm nowhere near an expert on Source either, so this is the best guess I could make of the whole situation: I think their argument is that displacements are somehow obsolete in Source because modern game engines can have more aggressive BSP partitions for brush compiling, subdivisions for geometry to make meshes more... detailed (?), and that nobody should be using the old triangular brush-to-mesh displacements because its old and crusty and shit. But the twist is... Source isn't a modern game engine. It doesn't really use fancy culling for better visibility optimization. You have BSP, and you have VVIS, which can really help make sense of all the objects that will be rendered on a map, and that's mainly it. Displacements are also technically invisible to VVIS, which means making a map out of purely displacements will result in such leakage of each visleaf to one another it'll be an ugly unoptimized mess. If there are some wacky Source wizards who can better explain this, be my guest! I'm literally getting all of this from cursory readings of Valve's Developer Community lmao

[@genghisdingus]

Not even a modern standards thing. Modern computers would lose a lot of FPS for no reason for using meshes over brushes. Even if they didn't using meshes instead would slow development time for no reason. The dude is just an idiot brushes are very much important to modern game design.

[@autismspirit]

​@@trashrabbit69 >because modern game engines can have more aggressive BSP partitions for brush compiling Here's the funny part, most modern game engines don't use BSP at all. CSG still exists kinda, but it's getting phased out, like in Unreal 4/5. CSG is technically the same workflow, but it converts the final brush shapes into normal meshes rather than use them to divide up the level like in oldschool engines.

[@emisorano]

I'm like 100% sure cod still uses bsp for occlusion

[@AlmyTheAlien]

"Your idealism is a epic failure" sounds like a villain line from a bad fan translation that took too many liberties with an anime that already wasn't very good to begin with.

[@golarac6433]

What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets

[@xweert711]

One of the most annoying things of exploring the Hammer Editor subreddit is all of the people who suffer greatly with the Dunning Kruger effect, where they have unbelievable confidence in their abilities but also have no idea how to do anything outside of make brushes in maps. It's totally okay to just be content with the fact you aren't a master game developer and are just a novice or beginner in a very niche engine that is unbelievably out of date, but this type of thing just seriously goes to people's heads.

[@autismspirit]

I've had people complaining or asking "why do you use so many models?" when they saw my project made in UNITY. People who use nothing but Source have no idea how other software works, yet still think it's the same 19 years later

[@AuditorMadness]

​@@autismspirit well yeah, people who work on older engines aren't used to that luxury so they have a more economic mindset when doing anything.

[@spetsnaz4537]

@@AuditorMadness hammer.exe has stopped responding

[@soupcangaming662]

@@spetsnaz4537 the fucking error report program crashes

[@SteampunkCorvus]

Can we have a part 2? This is honestly amazing, I ate this video up like fine dining

[@kadrix732]

+1 to this comment, I also absolutely loved this video

[@CruzGD]

Yes i would love this

[@ApertureAce]

There nothing quite as engaging as seeing some public drama in a internet community lol

[@erykdoors]

id love it

[@BeatCrazey]

I LOL'ed at "negative on that soldier". That guy really was the TF2 soldier, the idiocy level is the same.

[@SU76M]

"Soldier is trying to create his own TF2 map GMOD animation"

[@jbh759]

That's an insult to TF2 Soldier's intelligence

[@SamuelTrademarked]

the difference is the TF2 soldier can speak to people in real life and MAY have the mental capacity to use his words for a better purpose

[@escape209]

He even uses the word "numbnuts" at 16:52, which TF2 Soldier says in at least 2 quotes

[@oliverhenry4676]

I imagine him as a hecu grunt sitting in front of a computer

[@usualunusualkid7149]

moral of the story: people who call others "r******d" or accuse others of having "a spectrum disorder" can't use source engine

[@gunman1299]

6:17 "... this part was recorded a year later." How long have you had this video in oven for?

[@darkdwarf007]

description says that this video have been in junkyard playlist for a year

[@BSPNode]

Seriously, that Dunning-Kruger effect definition couldn't have been more perfect for HammerEditor. I won't lie, every community has these sorts of individuals roaming around, but I always see it the most in the software / game community.

[@FiksIIanzO]

Um, actually Dunning-Kruger has nothing to do with any of these people, because 1) it actually has _two_ points of confidence, one of which is associated with high skill, and 2) You need to have deep technical knowledge to even begin to argue such complex topics. Therefore you don't even know what a Dunning-Kruger is and I'd advice getting at least basic middle school training before arguing such complex subjects. I go into great detail on the difference on my website but I won't link it here as I wouldn't like it banned. But it's an easy mistake to make, totally understandable. Wait, what were we talking about?

[@bennnoboyo5238]

@@FiksIIanzO you really pulled an “umm ackshually 🤓” and expected to get anything in response? hell, you might as well be glad the most you’re getting is this.

[@BSPNode]

@@bennnoboyo5238 ’Twas’’ a joke, soldier 😊

[@FiksIIanzO]

@@BSPNode Shh, don't spook them off, I wanna see how many people can't see through sarcasm this thick

[@ghoulbuster1]

@@FiksIIanzO 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓

[@TacBans]

imagine getting into a multi-day long argument, getting AN ACTUAL VALVE EMPLOYEE to come in and shut you down, and STILL coming back to try and tell the _company that made the engine in the first place_ is wrong, to the point where the company shuts down any discussion related to it entirely.

[@hot_soup4319]

HammerEditor trying to explain how things work and how smart he is, and simultaneously not knowing its "Would've" and not "Would of" is fucking hilarious.

[@rebel6301]

As our boy Splash already said, they are a walking Dunning-Kruger effect in action.

[@FlyboyHelosim]

To be fair, many people seen as some sort of intellectuals aren't necessarily the best at grammar and punctuation.

[@HJkos]

He came back on an new account and died in a tornado But then he came back on a new account and died in a tornado

[@quantumblur_3145]

Then it sank into the swamp, so we built another one

[@LocalHolehead]

@@quantumblur_3145 And would you believe it, not only did he drown in said swamp, but THEN the tornado took him.

[@nuxx1876]

@@LocalHolehead And then he somehow died in a tornado again despite not even having returned yet

[@jtcameron8345]

That guy not understanding how the game director spawning zombies in Left 4 Dead works is pretty funny since that's one of the main selling points of the game

[@pyroparagon8945]

I assure you that no niche source engine detail was the main selling point of the game. I think the main selling point was the zombies.

[@somdudewillson]

@@pyroparagon8945 Main bullet points on the original left 4 dead website back in 2008: - Multiplayer, co-op and single player modes. - 4-on-4 Versus mode, Zombies vs. Survivors. - *AI Director ensures dynamic re-playability.* - 4 deep cinematic 'movie' campaigns. - Matchmaking, stats, and achievements. - Behind-the-scenes Designer's Commentary. - Powered by the Source engine and Steam.

[@pyroparagon8945]

@somdudewillson5899 most players will never know, or even care to know, the inner workings of that system.

[@jtcameron8345]

@@pyroparagon8945 have you ever played l4d because the spawn director choosing to screw you and your entire time is a very integral part of gameplay

[@pyroparagon8945]

@jtcameron8345 most players won't know anything about it other than "zombies spawn" and "replayability." You're severely overestimating how many people actually know the ins and outs of Source.

[@Whomobile]

There's something about Source engine that attracts an interesting crowd

[@emperorfaiz]

Nerds are never well known to have good social skills.

[@NeonBeeCat]

​@@emperorfaizthe audacity hammereditor had to call the person that wouldn't believe his bullshit autistic.

[@UCILaGtQaYAh3wnkvg4Rxzqg]

@@emperorfaiz I think you might be hammereditor at this point bro😭

[@SpookySkeleton738]

HammerEditor's rants read like something generated by the language model I spent an hour and a half training

[@antenoelle]

how ironic that somebody named HammerEditor would be an idiot with no actual clue what they're talking about with the source engine

[@c0nqu3r3rlol]

with the mapping community I believe it's par for the course

[@antenoelle]

@@c0nqu3r3rlol real actually

[@poke548]

No real Source dev would name themselves after elements of the Source engine-or if they did, they named themselves after an element that frustrates them. Most are in-jokes from over a decade ago and are now impossible to explain without sounding like a lunatic. If someone named "BrushDrawer" or whatever shows up, take them with a grain of salt; the real experts walk in with names like "BingySlushjob3301" and "Leaky_Map".

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@poke548sigsegv may not have been a mapper, but you could tell he knew his stuff with a name that specific

[@antenoelle]

@@poke548 yeah that's true. on that note, i have a couple years experience with source and hammer so i'm familiar with some stupidly specific in-jokes, and my personal favorite has to be "Tentacle Shit Water"

[@6WeeksTV]

I got into an argument in a youtube comments section once because this guy was arguing that the Source engine is actually a modified Havok game engine, not just using Havok Physics. He made some ridiculous claims it was so funny, wish I could find it

[@benjaminzarkhin1293]

"It's inefficient to use displacements for every surface" CS:GO/ 2's Dust II almost fully made of displacements: *Sweating in the corner*

[@poke548]

There's a lot of optimization done behind the scenes to make that work, and even then it's much less efficient than if you were trying to do it in some other engines that are more geared towards that sort of thing. Speaking of engines more geared towards that sort of thing: Source 2. Disclaimer: I am much less familiar with Source 2 than Source 1 aside from the pieces they share, but Source 2's mapping workflow is better, and overall handles displacements much better. There were credible theories at the time (which, now that CS2 is a thing, have even more credence) that many recent Valve maps were first made in Source 2, then had their map geometry and a few other things back-ported to CS:GO, then cleaned up and made to work properly in Source 1. Granted, we don't know for sure (it could just be someone making a Source 1 map after spending months working with the Source 2 Hammer Editor), but a close look at new Dust II and Ancient really shows signs of a Source 2-style mapping process.

[@croatbruhmoment2910]

"Woopy due" is my new favorite phrase. Thank you Mr. Pinsplash.

[@cool_bug_facts]

May I also suggest "kerfuffle"? It's one of my personal favorites and it's quite topical too.

[@ManyManyPandas]

inactreate gibberous is a close second

[@croatbruhmoment2910]

@@cool_bug_facts Woopy Due, i haven't thought of that one.

[@CaveyMoth]

Conflabbid thing

[@golarac6433]

bone apple tea

[@twgt666]

the pinsplash breencast aint no way

[@benjaminzarkhin1293]

To think that this guy's mod is somewhere out there, made entirely out of displacements with broken lighting and shit optimization is worrying.

[@mr.101.8]

I think he's a troll, that can't be real. If I'm wrong and someone finds it, reply pls. I'd love to see that crap 😂.

[@CringePotato]

I feel like they are either a troll and the mod doesn't exists, or they were serious and never finished the maps because they ran into issues along the way and gave up because they would have to admit defeat and go to the displacement page to get info on why it was causing issues. Either is funny because the trolling is hilarious, and if it wasn't trolling it's just hilariously sad.

[@GarethJason]

I bet HammerEditor is *still* mad that he can't edit a single word on a very obscure thing on a wiki for a engine that's old. What a life to live...

[@SaintRedFox]

just wait for when he makes a new account, edits a page and gets banned again

[@WillowWisp2112]

I'll admit, I don't know jack shit about the source engine beyond absolute basic knowledge, but when I heard the part where the dude tried to claim the game would just spawn zombies outside the map and crash the whole engine, all I could think was "...Bro, that would have been the FIRST THING they'd make sure never happened, good fucking god"

[@mostdakka3295]

I like to think that that these people are still around somewhere and will stumble upon this video and trigger flashbacks. Hopefully they got smarter with age.

[@quantumblur_3145]

This kind of behavior doesn't get better with age

[@AuditorMadness]

​@@quantumblur_3145 not really. I used to say lots of cringe things on forums when I was young.

[@rebelfriendlier6082]

​@@AuditorMadnessNow you say them in private with friends.

[@wisdomax2891]

pin really saw a 20 year old argument and was like "i cant let this stand"

[@TheGreatCalsby]

I hope HammerEditor sees this video

[@AbolishTheInternet]

"woopie due" has entered the lexicon

[@ahmed4363]

inactreate gibberous

[@Jofoyo]

I nearly had an aneurysm during the "HammerEditor" segment.

[@ardentparagon159]

Had some dude call us simpletons for not understanding the true potential of using halo 5 forge to block out map designs for csgo. As much as it sounds like it I promise you this guy was not a troll.

[@ZombieZMB]

That's actually genius. Not only do you have to build the map with a controller but you get to built the entire map twice.

[@neevko267]

I understand his thought process, sometimes visualizing the building blocks of something can help you design it but using another map editor to make the base of a map design for another game is like using scissors to open scissors

[@Spunney]

Crazy how many people I've encountered that are exactly like that HammerEditor guy in every way. I don't get what goes on to make these kinds of people. The obsession with telling people they have disorders or that they're using logical fallacies, the "You have not provided me with factual arguments" line, the being unable to accept that they could ever be wrong in the slightest way, just the way they talk in general... I wonder if they're all just the same guy. How else could so many identical people exist?

[@mole_rat_gaming]

Yeah, it really baffles me why there seems to be so many people like this. The Dunning-Kruger effect shows us that it's easy to be confidently wrong when you don't know how much you have left to learn, and experts can forgive that naivety, but starting an argument with the _literal expert_ is something I've never understood. I touch enough grass to know how important it is to respect the experts.

[@quantumblur_3145]

I've been adamant about stuff before, I think the only difference between me and someone like that is... I know how to vet my sources and recognize people with more experience. Or maybe it's just all the lead in the pipes

[@quantumblur_3145]

@L I have no idea which character's supposed to represent who in your sentence, ngl

[@pagedMov]

a volatile mixture of being told you're a genious throughout your childhood, not having any meaningful relationships with anyone, being terminally online, and only being "good at" or "knowledgeable about" a single thing. The last one is big, because if these people ever admit they're wrong about the one thing they know anything about, they are basically accepting that they dont know anything about anything, so it's literally not even an option for them. It seems like a really unlikely possibility for all of these things to line up, but it's pretty sad how common it is.

[@quantumblur_3145]

@@pagedMov that can't be it, I'm all those things but came out with a tremendous amount of self-doubt and no certainty about anything. There's gotta be an extra variable somewhere

[@lucialambda]

this was a very entertaining video and i'm always down for longer form pinsplash vids

[@grantb7901]

Yeaaahhh old VDC was a fun place. The VDCBot locked the page indefinitely, so now editors have to do some mediawiki bullcrap to make edits. It was fun to see the view history for the page and see that happen.

[@DemodiX]

OBSOLETE

[@Speed74LP]

... Isn't Havok the physics engine used by Source? What has Havok todo with rendering?

[@Tr0tim]

It's so exhausting dealing with people like this. Cathartic video (working on a TF2 mod made me see arguments like this far too often)

[@Baba-yv6ml]

oh shid it's tf2c dev!!!!!!

[@teaboy301]

I have not that many hours using hammer, and I'm really dumb. But sir edit said "Displacement brushes, are brushes" I was dead. The FIRST THING I LEARNT ABOUT DISPLACEMENTS, IS THAT THEY ARE NOT THE SAME AS BRUSHES, AND ARE NOT SOLID.

[@MakotoIchinose]

10:06 As a developer using Unreal Engine, I can't hold my laughter because of how delusional that comparison is lmfao

[@carrie_is_gay]

insanely deep source engine lore. 10/10

[@NyanKaka]

I hope this is new and will be a nice addition to your next HL2 facts video. I remember when I was a kid, my brother and I liked to dabble with harpoons, which can be found in several places in the Sandtraps chapter. With them you could kill any mobs with a single blow and nailing them to the wall. It even killed antlion guards with one hit. But at the end of sandtraps it was breaking the game, and vort would not go outside to make a bugbait. We decided to try to get the harpoon to the end of the game, killing all the mobs along the way with it. So when we got to the Entanglement chapter and met Alyx, we decided to try throwing a harpoon at her. And she died instantly too, while the game continued. We decided to play around with this mechanic some more, and once we even hooked Alyx's ragdoll onto a harpoon and walked around with it. But when we played HL2 afterwards, we couldn't do it anymore. It turns out that this feature of the harpoon was because of the physgun_interactions parameter in the game config. But in the latest versions of the game the parameter spin_none is broken. The harpoon mechanics worked back in the 2004 version of the game. It seems like the mechanics were accidentally cut out with the release of Source SDK 2013.

[@jeeBisOkay]

"woopy due"

[@0snowbunny0]

inactreate gibberous has had me laughing for five minutes straight what was he even trying to say?😭

[@Thezanlynxer]

inaccurate gibberish

[@ButtonMasherReal]

@@Thezanlynxer Ironic. He could save others from inaccurate gibberish, but not himself.

[@NunyaMcBusiness]

Pretty sure bro was a child

[@rebelfriendlier6082]

​@@NunyaMcBusiness it's possible it was 2020 after all

[@Pokycraftgamer9]

@@Thezanlynxer thats some inactreate gibberous

[@andhieyusuf7008]

On every open source games forum, there's always the one dude who creates a single map/mod once, convinced they're about to change the way the engine works, and got into fights with the senior members

[@SpringySpring04]

When the "all-mighty" HammerEditor guy came back for more and got banned four times in a row I thought of the Queen song, "Another one bites the dust"

[@rabbet6972]

I was hoping the breencast at the end was going to be the breen voice AI reading out the editors rants.

[@CreepyboomGamer]

I was expecting something crazy like “One week later, he created another account on the Valve Developer Wiki, got administrator permissions, edited the page, and got banned again.” At the end.

[@HalfLifeDecay]

I cant imagine being in an online argument for more than an hour, let alone 8+ days lol

[@thewoodpeckers655]

“The next day, he created a new account, edited the page, and got banned again” “The next day, he created a new account, edited the page, and got banned again” “The next day, he created a new account, edited the page, and got banned again” “The nex-”

[@Pokycraftgamer9]

it is the Editor that never ends, it will go on and on my friend

[@unfa00]

On a different note, I love when game reviewers blame engines for poorly optimized or programmed games. A lot of people who never worked in a game studio have a lot of random ideas about what game engines are, what they do and have w they work. Most of these ideas aren't correct and are usually misguided in some way, confused or completely wrong.

[@Brawltendo]

My favorite thing is when people just come up with random bullshit about what game engines do lol. I see this the most whenever Frostbite is involved, especially when it’s Need for Speed even though the NFS franchise has been on the engine for over a decade and was the first to switch over. Some of the ridiculous things I’ve seen are that the cars in NFS use bullet physics (not the Bullet physics engine, literal bullet physics) because Frostbite is an “FPS engine” and that cars in NFS The Run had to have guns hidden in the engine bay in order to work. The latter has been spread around for years which I guess was because it came from a guy that claimed to either know someone at EA or was formerly a dev at an EA studio. Either way it’s so outlandish that it never should’ve caught on but somehow people bought it and continued to spread it lmao. People also think that just because they use Frostbite that they use Battlefield’s vehicle sim which isn’t the case at all. Being someone that’s been reverse engineering NFS games and Frostbite for years is frustrating but also entertaining.

[@krollic]

i was expecting something about poorly coded engine logic arguments, not dumb actual arguments about the engine. cool

[@elvenezolanoxd6245]

4:21 "your idealism is a epic failure" XD

[@scantyer]

Happy 3 years anniversary of the displacement page getting locked forever

[@dominikrni]

yipee!!

[@MillywiggZ]

Is “Sir Editor” confused about the difference between subdivide/subsurface and triangulate? Because it sounds like they think subdivide/subsurface (which he seems to think are the same thing) will make a mesh magically transform from quads to tris but also boolean the surfaces together seamlessly. I’m sorry for using Blender terms here, but he’s the one that brought up Blender hahaa! I’ve never used Hammer or any Source editors but at least that puts me on equal footing to argue with them. I really hope they find and reply to this.

[@realmamitler]

It's funny to see arguments over source engine stuff. Good content as always!

[@TamiyaGuy123]

So, my "experience" of hammer is limited to hacking together barely-functional crapboxes for videos. The fact that you're able to take these arguments and help a moron like me kind-of understand them while laughing out loud at your absolute deadpan delivery is the sign of a great video. Absolutely fantastic stuff. I was tempted to click ooff when I saw that chapter 3 was twice as long as 1 & 2 combined, but I am _so_ glad I stayed.

[@rimickulous]

i learned more about source from this video than HammerEditor ever knew

[@Anomidae]

that last guy, what an absolute legend. I hope to be that stubborn one day awesome video, pls make more of these

[@benjaminzarkhin1293]

Please don't. You're not cool nor impressive.

[@dagothkronk348]

holy shit anomidae sighted

[@the-guy-beyond-the-socket]

"The souse engine has a reputation... "

[@somedudethatripsplanetinha4221]

We need a 1 hour version of Pinsplash saying "The next day, came back on a new account, edited the page, and got banned again"

[@AverageMichaelJordans]

The oddly respectful look into what they did after the incident was welcome, even if it was just to emphasise how insane HammerEditor was. Even the best of us get dragged down to our lowest lows when an online argument starts. Don't go on forums kids.

[@noicehoenn5642]

forums starts to get interesting when someone say some dumb shit. I remember one time a guy say 3rd worlders has poorer health because they drink "brown water", and that the west does not because they drink the safe "blue water". I'm surprised some still remember him when I revisited the forum again

[@AuditorMadness]

​@@noicehoenn5642 lmao probably a daily mcdonalds eater

[@SeedemFeedemRobots]

@@AuditorMadness as long as he drinks the blue water he should be okay

[@CrraVideos]

The last guy its yanderedev levels of being dense

[@Humble_Merchant]

On the bullet penetration, it seemed like the guy was just saying, "CSS has bullet penetration, so it's not impossible for HL2 has it," and then people attacked him for that and he had to defend himself albeit poorly

[@gametram6139]

UHM ACKTUALLY Source distantly originates from the GoldSrc engine, itself a heavily modified version of John Carmack's Quake engine with some code from the Quake II engine. Carmack commented on his blog in 2004 that "there are still bits of early Quake code in Half-Life 2".[1] Valve employee Erik Johnson explained the engine's nomenclature on the Valve Developer Community:[2] When we were getting very close to releasing Half-Life (less than a week or so), we found there were already some projects that we needed to start working on, but we couldn't risk checking in code to the shipping version of the game. At that point we forked off the code in VSS to be both /$Goldsrc and /$Src. Over the next few years, we used these terms internally as "Goldsource" and "Source". At least initially, the Goldsrc branch of code referred to the codebase that was currently released, and Src referred to the next set of more risky technology that we were working on. When it came down to show Half-Life 2 for the first time at E3, it was part of our internal communication to refer to the "Source" engine vs. the "Goldsource" engine, and the name stuck. Source was developed part-by-part from this fork onwards, slowly replacing GoldSrc in Valve's internal projects[3] and, in part, explaining the reasons behind its unusually modular nature. Valve's development of Source since has been a mixture of licensed middleware and in-house-developed code. Among others, Source uses Bink Video for video playback.[4] Modularity and notable updates Source was created to evolve incrementally with new technology, as opposed to the backward compatibility-breaking "version jumps" of its competitors. Different systems within Source are represented by separate modules which can be updated independently. With Steam, Valve can distribute these updates automatically among its many users. In practice, however, there have been occasional breaks in this chain of compatibility. The release of Half-Life 2: Episode One and The Orange Box both introduced new versions of the engine that could not be used to run older games or mods without the developers performing upgrades to code and, in some cases, content.[5] Both cases required markedly less work to update its version than competing engines. Source 2006 A screenshot of Half-Life 2: Episode One. The high-dynamic-range rendering and Phong shading effects are evident. The Source 2006 branch was the term used for Valve's games using technology that culminated with the release of Half-Life 2: Episode One. HDR rendering and color correction were first implemented in 2005 using Day of Defeat: Source, which required the engine's shaders to be rewritten.[6] The former, along with developer commentary tracks, were showcased in Half-Life 2: Lost Coast. Episode One introduced Phong shading and other smaller features. Image-based rendering technology had been in development for Half-Life 2,[7] but was cut from the engine before its release. It was mentioned again by Gabe Newell in 2006 as a piece of technology he would like to add to Source to implement support for much larger scenes that are impossible with strictly polygonal objects.[8] Source 2007 The Source 2007 branch represented a full upgrade of the Source engine for the release of The Orange Box. An artist-driven, threaded particle system replaced previously hard-coded effects for all of the games within.[citation needed] An in-process tools framework was created to support it, which also supported the initial builds of Source Filmmaker. In addition, the facial animation system was made hardware-accelerated on modern video cards for "feature film and broadcast television" quality.[9] The release of The Orange Box on multiple platforms allowed for a large code refactoring, which let the Source engine take advantage of multiple CPU cores.[10] However, support on the PC was experimental and unstable[11] until the release of Left 4 Dead.[12] Multiprocessor support was later backported to Team Fortress 2 and Day of Defeat: Source.[13] Valve created the Xbox 360 release of The Orange Box in-house, and support for the console is fully integrated into the main engine codeline. It includes asset converters, cross-platform play and Xbox Live integration.[14] Program code can be ported from PC to Xbox 360 simply by recompiling it.[15] The PlayStation 3 release was outsourced to Electronic Arts, and was plagued with issues throughout the process. Gabe Newell cited these issues when criticizing the console during the release of The Orange Box.[16] Left 4 Dead branch The Left 4 Dead branch is an overhaul of many aspects of the Source engine through the development of the Left 4 Dead series. Multiprocessor support was further expanded, allowing for features like split screen multiplayer, additional post-processing effects, event scripting with Squirrel, and the highly-dynamic AI Director. The menu interface was re-implemented with a new layout designed to be more console-oriented. This branch later fueled the releases of Alien Swarm and Portal 2, the former released with source code outlining many of the changes made since the branch began. Portal 2, in addition, served as the result of Valve taking the problem of porting to PlayStation 3 in-house, and in combination with Steamworks integration creating what they called "the best console version of the game".[17] OS X, Linux, and Android support In April 2010, Valve released all of their major Source games on OS X, coinciding with the release of the Steam client on the same platform. Valve announced that all their future games would be released simultaneously for Windows and Mac.[18][19] The first of Valve's games to support Linux was Team Fortress 2, the port released in October 2012 along with the closed beta of the Linux version of Steam. Both the OS X and Linux ports of the engine take advantage of OpenGL and are powered by Simple DirectMedia Layer.[20] During the process of porting, Valve rearranged most of the games released up to The Orange Box into separate, but parallel "singleplayer" and "multiplayer" branches. The game code to these branches was made public to mod developers in 2013, and they serve as the current stable release of Source designated for mods. Support for Valve's internal Steam Pipe distribution system as well as the Oculus Rift are included.[21] In May 2014, Nvidia released ports of Portal and Half-Life 2 to their Tegra 4-based Android handheld game console Nvidia Shield.[22] Tools and resources Source SDK Source SDK is the software development kit for the Source engine, and contains many of the tools used by Valve to develop assets for their games. It comes with several command-line programs designed for special functions within the asset pipeline, as well as a few GUI-based programs designed for handling more complex functions. Source SDK was launched as a free standalone toolset through Steam, and required a Source game to be purchased on the same account. Since the release of Left 4 Dead in late 2008, Valve began releasing "Authoring Tools" for individual games, which constitute the same programs adapted for each game's engine build. After Team Fortress 2 became free-to-play, Source SDK was effectively made open to all Steam users. When some Source games were updated to Source 2013, the older Source SDKs were phased out. The three applications mentioned below are now included in the install of each game.[citation needed] There are three applications packaged in the Source SDK: Hammer Editor, Model Viewer, and Face Poser. The Model Viewer is a program that allows users to view models and can be used for a variety of different purposes, including development. Developers may use the program to view models and their corresponding animations, attachment points, bones, and so on. Face Poser is the tool used to access facial animations and choreography systems. This tool allows one to edit facial expressions, gestures and movements for characters, lip sync speech, and sequence expressions and other acting cues and preview what the scene will look like in the game engine.[23] Hammer Editor "Valve Hammer" redirects here. For the repair tool, see valve hammer. The Hammer Editor, the engine's official level editor, uses rendering and compiling tools included in the SDK to create maps using the binary space partitioning (BSP) method. Level geometry is created with 3D polygons called brushes; each face can be assigned a texture which also defines the properties of the surface such as the sounds used for footsteps.[24] Faces can also be converted into a displacement allowing for more natural shapes such as hills to be created.

[@Sasujerk]

I have no idea why I read the whole thing

[@inha1ed]

“You’ve already died on this hill and now you’ve come back to life just to die on it again” I don’t understand why he was so focused on editing a single page. Like is it really that big a deal? I thought he would have taken the hint after being banned lol

[@casperjones8476]

i'm living for the inactreate gibberous

[@FiksIIanzO]

People who made 2 microgames on RPGMaker keep thinking they know what a game engine is meant to be

[@viper1757]

0:49 this was a jarring reminder to me that Titanfall 2 was made in the fucking source engine

[@farawaygaming_]

So was apex legends haha

[@TheMentalgen]

man what is it with source and attracting the weirdest freaks

[@poke548]

The Cult of Source is a corrupting influence. It is a good pain.

[@s_callahan]

i wonder the same thing ngl

[@golarac6433]

This is a very interesting topic and I love your intro to this video. Pretty much every source engine related video is making fun of the 'le spaghetti' code. It's not perfect, sure, but the only reason you even know how "broken" it is is because how open Valve is with their software, intentionally or not (leaks are their tradition at this point lol)

[@charlotte80389]

I'm REALLY ashamed that I was one of these kind of people. but life taught me that trying to look smart will only result in looking stupid. and also cringe

[@ninjacat230]

you would thing after getting banned three times, he would learn that he was not wanted

[@ErumTheProwler]

Bro thought he is the Thinker xd

[@quantumblur_3145]

You know it's good when you already know the number is BS and now you have to dig to figure out _where_ they even got that number

[@ben12355]

The person known as HammerEditor is now hated by valve, the employees and maybe gabe himself

[@liquid_oxygen]

INFRA is the best independent source engine game

[@Ozaron]

Love Infra, such a good game. It does have some crashing issues but it's a gem

[@buddyisbored2355]

I'd watch nerds fight over the source engine for hours. I hope you make more of this

[@redwiltshire1816]

The funniest part of all this you could easily test all these elements yourself

[@ViKODiN_]

Yet again, delivering incredible content. Your ability to provide consistent education and entertainment from a 20 year old engine is world class, and as of now, you’re my favorite KZbinr ❤❤

[@Benethen_]

i lol'd so hard at 7:22, the way you said "of" EDIT: i seriously love how many times the dude tried coming back and immediately got banned

[@gurlight2131]

Most likely he's read all those topics/words somewhere, understood few parts of it, proceeded to think himself as the "supersmart guy researching deep topics", got his ego inflated more than the economy, and then went correcting others on topics he clearly knew about, and got assmad when people suggested he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Probably because gaining knowledge on that topic was the most fulfilling thing they had achieved in a long time. You find these people everywhere - linux forums, car guys forums, sports bars, social science academia, your uncle on any topic etc.

[@Sasujerk]

Especially linux forums

[@un1d]

On the whole displacement thing, isn’t it a thing that modern CS:GO maps are mostly made out of displacements, even if the floors/walls are flat, for optimisation reasons?

[@Pietre115]

Don’t you fucking dare. Brushes are an essential part of hammer, you sick fuck

[@mfaizsyahmi]

What optimization? If you're optimizing for Source you'd want to convert them all to plain old brushes. The reason displacements were liberally used in CS:GO is because they're developed on Source 2 toolset which, if you watch the CS2 trailers, has a completely different paradigm which doesn't feel like classic Hammer CSG anymore, but more like Blender. The closest thing to that in Source is displacements, and lots of props. Very hard to convert meshes to brushes, but easier to convert to displacements.

[@GODofTimewaste2]

I wouldn't say it's for optimization, but rather just to make the maps look nicer. In addition to the whole bumpyness thing, displacements support blend textures, which normal brushes don't.

[@ethanbear360]

@@GODofTimewaste2 That's the main reason (Though I believe Source 2 supports it for any plane of geometry). There are still brushes right underneath all the displacements in the Source version.

[@Pinsplash]

I've heard some people say that if you disable at least one collision type on displacements, they're in some way "faster" than brushes but I know nothing more about that.

[@mfaizsyahmi]

If a person uses "would of" "should of" etc. his entire accreditation should be discarded and his entire argument invalid.

[@alevegaliolios]

I'd wanna give the first guy the benefit of the doubt and just assume that, as at that time nobody knew almost anything about the source engine and it probably was all speculation, that whatever basic stuff he probably knew or speculated about, it might've been more than it really was back in the day.

[@CaveyMoth]

Someone died on that displacement mesh hill.

[@TheGreatCalsby]

I love that the internet has started to be around for so long that we can look back at 20 year old forums and eat up the drama

[@lololghi7909]

PLEASE make more videos like this! This was insanely funny!

[@realdragon]

Source engine is revolutionary. over a decade after release people still somehow find new bugs in TF2 that nobody ever before had

[@wiiprocontroller6471]

On Vacation, it's like 7:45 AM. I have no idea how the Source Engine works, it's also too early to actually comprehend this but yet I watch because people are stupid and I love it

[@B5OD]

0:35 "What is wrong with you? Why are you blue?"

[@PSEUDOSOPHER]

I need a sequel to this

[@DragoanDell]

I cannot express how hilarious these things are when you know game development. That last story had me rolling, amazing video

[@r.g.thesecond]

OK that last part was very funny. Thank you for your edu-tain-tional content, would become a member once I get a job.

[@summerdeaf]

great video I know very little about source but it was explained in a way that made sense

[@reptarien]

I can not believe that that guy tried to come back THREE TIMES. What a slack-jawed idiot. That bit was edited hilariously, btw, I laughed my ass off. And thanks for trying to put people like this in their place -- not enough people have the time/ patience to do so (there will never be enough, because there will always be idiots, but we can't help but try anyway)

[@bigman1688]

"my game which i am making on source is drawn nearly entirely out of displacements" - bms devs

[@golarac6433]

I guess the point HammerEditor tried to make is that most modern engines no longer use brushes and bsp but just render arbitrary 3d meshes but why would he argue that on the page of a specific feature of a specific gaming engine ? lmao