Pioneer SA9100 & TX9100 - Repairing The Old Married Couple - Part 2 - The Tuner

[@nickphilpot420]

great to see your enthusiasm for this old equipment, it really was a golden age of hi Fi. pioneer has always been my favourite manufacturer probably because I was given a tx 606 tuner and sa 606 amp back when I was 16 in 1978. Each unit probably cost the equivalent of several weeks wages back in those days! keep up the great videos.

[@ernstelderenbosch1715]

I really enjoyed your excellent two part series. After studying electronics I ended up as an IT manager and now, close to retirement, I really enjoy going back to my roots and along the way picking up a lot I either long forgot or never knew. Your last two videos were a very interesting mix of repair, practical restoration tips and education, along with practical ways to set up test equipment. Thank you for spending the time and effort to make these interesting videos!

[@jaybats7865]

Great vid Tony! My favorite speakers are the JBL Century L100, I have 4 of them hooked up to my Pioneer SX 1010 and they are fantastic. PS…I had to pull out Robert Plant’s Principle Of Moments LP and play In The Mood, it is awesome for sure but my favorite song on that album is Big Log 😊 Thanks for the fun

[@keybutnolock]

Great video (s) watched the amp one, so I had to watch this one. I am glad I did ! Interesting stuff, that Pioneer scope is a work of art.

[@pedrorm8632]

Fantástico como siempre. Muy instructivo.gracias a personas como you videos very interesantes y instructivos

[@jameskrivitsky9715]

Thanks Tony, a bit more involved than I was expecting, but none the less educational. I recently subscribed and will view other videos on your site to see what I've missed. J K

[@garfo992e]

Just discovered your videos tonight, really enjoyable, well done and informative. Thank you.

[@TY-ob7fz]

Hi Tony. As one of the viewer said also, the de-emphasis sounds like Dolby A and B when it first came out, when they encoded on audio cassette tapes. Then when you play back would decode the audio to reduce the tape hiss and restore the sound around the hiss frequencies. Many thanks for the fun and informative video you've taken the time to put together and sharing your knowledge !!!

[@grahamtownsend3751]

When it comes to re-capping I go one or two caps at a time and then test, just to be sure that if anything does go wrong you don't have to back track a huge amount to try and resolve whatever went wrong, bearing in mind that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link and the problem may have been created elsewhere because of what you've replaced.

[@mr16ga]

Good best practice!

[@Scott-K7sce]

these are such a nice set, well worth the restoration.. for me tho i never use am/fm ditched that garbage ages ago theres nothing on it thesedays but to many ads and commercials so just like TV. i ditched both ages ago

[@antraciet]

yes, very interesting video. Thank you. And the multipath in FM; on shortwave you can hear it sometimes very good when the signals comes from both sides of the world.

[@ronshaw80]

I remember the Rectilinear 3's. The biggest problem I had with them is that they spread the tweeters all over the front baffle, making good imaging impossible (others did that in those days, too). I preferred speakers like the Dynaco A25's and 35's, the large Advents, and the KLH and AR's. The Rectilinears were pretty efficient, though!

[@spytsiTube]

Big thanks for this intuitive tutorial, Tony. Coincidentally, last June I purchased this very tuner on eBay, so this video came as a valuable guide and answered numerous questions that I had as regards its operation and adjustments. My device is in good working condition. I cleaned up with deoxit all switches and performed some basic alignment with good results (don't have the equipment to attempt adjusting the separation control, though). On inspection, the capacitors do not seem to have major flaws (although I am well aware that this is not enough to guarantee their optimal working condition; on the other hand, a recaping procedure goes far beyond my level of expertise and involvement with this hobby). Anyway, I am pleased with the tuner's performance, with one exception: it does not play stereo. Since the first day it arrived, this has been my major concern and it persists even after all this basic cleaning and maintenance I performed. At first, I thought that the stereo light indicator might be burnt, but this was not the case here; after being tuned and running for hours, the stereo light may unexpectedly and intermittently go on for a few seconds and then off again. So, I guess that it is an issue that has something to do with the tuner's electronics. According to your knowledge and experience, do these "symptoms" imply some possible cause(s) for this stereo malfunction? Could you share any suggestions on where/what to check for inside the device, in hope that I might spot the cause and attempt to fix it? All feedback, guidance, and help is greatly appreciated! Spyridon

[@xraytonyb]

Hi, and thanks for watching! I'm not sure what kind of test equipment you have access to, but if you could inject a 19kHz pilot signal into the multiplex section of the tuner, that would be a good start. If the stereo light comes on, you at least know that the circuit is working. My guess is that the pilot circuit is slightly off center. You could also check and see if the FM IF and discriminator is properly aligned. Beyond that , you would need a stereo multiplex signal generator, such as the Sencore SG-165, Sound Technologies 1000A or similar device. Hope that helps! You also should download the service manual before attempting any alignment.

[@spytsiTube]

Hello and many thanks for your prompt reply and advice. Since all this is a hobby to me, I will try to gain access to the suggested professional equipment, in order to perform the tests and post back my findings. I discovered on the web the tuner owner's manual and schematics. Please pardon my naivety, but I'm still not sure about which one is (where exactly lies) the tuner's stereo pilot circuit. Could you please point that out to me? Is it accessible from the top of the unit (under one of these black metal shieldings), or do I have to remove the bottom cover to gain access to it? [Shall I guess that the mentioned multiplex section is, in fact, the stereo circuit? And at which point(s) exactly do I inject/apply the 19 kHz signal into?] Best regards!

[@jamesmdeluca]

Greetings: The best way to minimize multipath signals from transmitters not co-located is with a directional antenna with a rotator. I realize many listeners are lucky to have permission for mounting an outdoor antenna, often a good indoor antenna may be attic located and direction adjusted with feedback from the multipath scope.

[@Stlthpntr]

You were guessing about the 50 or 75 micro secs switch function.....1971 was the advent of Dolby FM broadcasting in the USA. since this tuner did not contain an onboard Dolby FM decoder the owner could buy a standalone Dolby FM decoder and connect the output of the tuner to it between the TX 9100 and the preamp. Standalone decoders required the correct de-emphasis signal from the RF section of the tuner to function properly.So it was up to the owner to inform the HiFi store to set the correct de-emphasis in order for Dolby FM to work with this Tuner.The additional 25 microsecs (From 50 to 75) were used when an outboard Dolby FM unit was going to be used. As far as I know Pioneer never incorporated Dolby FM in any of its tuners,while Marantz did add that function.I bought a new TX-9100 and SA-9100 in 1973 Liked the tuner but bought a Marantz 250M to bypass the lifeless amp section of the SA9100

[@kphickman]

I had an SA9100 back in 73 to 78. I had JBL L100s and later EPI 100s. Rectilinear speakers were considered junk speakers for stoners. The number of drivers and crossovers required the use of inexpensive (read Cheap) components. Having said that, I didn't have these speakers so I this wasn't a 1st hand opinion, but something that I picked up during extensive shopping for speakers. The premiere speakers at that time were Klipsch and Magnaplaner. Bose 901 were new and trendy, but couldn't handle the bass on rock music like Emerson Lake and Palmer and Dark Side of the Moon.

[@jdekong3945]

Great video as usual Tony, would love some more info on which capacitors you prefer to use on audio restoration products, signal path & PSU

[@aklef]

I have a '74 Sony SQR-6750 on the bench right now. The annoying thing with those caps is they tend to leak on the bottom so I can only visually tell they're bad once I've got them off the boards. Had the legs of one fall right out when I was removing it

[@Rangerman9404]

Robert Plant: excellent choice!

[@delukxy]

De emphasis can be compared somewhat to the way that Dolby B works. I was given a Sanyo tuner because there was no stereo. Basically the decoder pot had got a bit corroded and just twiddling it back and forth restored it to good stereo again. No instruments, so all by ear. Found that by switching to mono it was easy to get the tuning needle to centre but switching back to stereo deflected the needle a bit but not out of the central black section. Centralised it by micro adjusting the decoder pot and it was then 100% good. This leads to my question as to whether you would consider it a good idea to move all of these adjuster pots back and forth a few degrees to make sure they were giving a good clean contact. Maybe a tiny squirt of de-oxit as well.

[@spytsiTube]

Hi Deluk, I'm facing a quite similar no-stereo issue with a same TX-9100 tuner (see my relevant detailed comment above). What exactly is the decoder pot? Where can I find it in this Pioneer tuner? Maybe trying a micro-adjustment of this pot could also solve my stereo issue? And, as you said, is it safe to use a drop or two of deoxit on this pot? Thanks for the help!

[@delukxy]

I'm not that tech savvy but I found the stereo decoder board and looked for the tiny adjustable pots. From memory it had something like mpx next to it. Ultimately a scope can be used but I have nothing like that. I think Tony might comment as far as the location of where this board is on this tuner. Might well be under a cover but mine wasn't.

[@brianjuffs4662]

Steve your saying those capacitors were leaking. They were leaking DC through them long before bulging and leaking physically. When capacitors get old they begin to pass DC. Depending on which part of the circiut. This affects how the system operates, stability, noise and frequency response.

[@OldTechFan]

Ok I'll bite.....I would definitely try those highboy 3's with that amp. They are a surprisingly accurate speaker in my opinion. Good match power wise as well. Good high frequency response without sounding overly bright. I love trying different speakers with dfferent amps.

[@pauldavies8638]

I use yamaha ns 45e I find them very well suited to the sa 9100

[@vmhanlon]

Is the Sencore SG165 enough to do most tuner alignments? I see the HP in use quite often when tuner work is being done

[@Chrissy4605]

I am blessed with computer speakers that sound great!!! Sadly they do not sell them anymore.

[@peterwikvist2433]

Love your videos.

[@dtvdave1]

"Multipath" is what caused "ghosting" in analog TV video. You may remember seeing this if you're old enough to have viewed analog TV - ghost images of the picture, usually to the right of the main image. Adjusting the antenna could minimize this (easy to tell if it's right - the ghost is minimized). "Airplane flutter" was the same thing, caused by the signal reflecting off a passing plane and getting to your antenna slightly later than the direct signal from the station. In the last years of analog TV, stations would transmit a reference signal that some receivers could use to correct for this error (within reason). Digital TV includes a correction for this (again, within reason). With digital TV you won't see a ghost, you just won't decode a signal (or at least not reliably). Circular or elliptical polarization in FM and TV transmitting antennas tends to minimize this.

[@Rangerman9404]

Yeah, I thought of that when he explained the multi path thing. I never thought of it as affecting audio in the same way it affects video. I'm quite familiar with it having lived in a first floor apartment in a major city for the final years of analog TV and beyond, the only way I could avoid it altogether was cable TV

[@raysmith8307]

I have a Sansui AU-719 looking for a rebuild. it works but happy to pay the going rebuild rate.

[@TY-ob7fz]

Another thought. Sales of product is dictated by profit and in the seventies and eighties was no different. But a few factors allowed these vintage units to excell in quality of built was post war economy boom and the high value of the US dollar during that time. Also during that time our thougts were on technology and enlightenment. My view of course and I might be mistaken but ... All this exposure to these puppies is going to push up the value of vintage and deservingly so. But always needs a good caring responsible person to do restoration.

[@ronwade2206]

We tossed them outside until the veneer blistered off.

[@1959Berre]

I checked some Pioneer and Marantz prices on the 2nd hand market lately, some gear is more expensive than when it was brand new.

[@machtschnell7452]

Imagine that!

[@justincase3880]

You can make a 3 meter J-Pole antenna out of a 300 ohm twin lead cable for FM (tuned at 98.1) ...

[@gime3steps]

To keep things in the vintage era my speaker choice would be Pioneer 99a x4.

[@lelandclayton5462]

awesome info.

[@Rangerman9404]

I was wondering when you were talking about "FM Multi path" you mentioned radio waves travelling at "near the speed of light". If I'm not mistaken, radio waves are part of the same electromagnetic spectrum as visible light is, so wouldn't a radio signal be actually travelling at the speed of light?

[@xraytonyb]

Great question!! I was hoping someone would pick up on that. RF (i.e. an electromagnetic signal ) travels at the speed of light in a vacuum. Here on Earth, our atmosphere interacts with the signal, causing it to travel slightly slower than in a vacuum. Barometric pressure, humidity and other factors contribute to this. This is also seen when a signal travels through a wire. This is why there are so many different types of RF cables. The amount of effect a type of cable has on a signal is called its "velocity factor", which describes the ratio of velocity a signal will travel through a medium with respect to its velocity in a vacuum. RF still travels near the speed of light in Earth's atmosphere, so most people just say that "radio travels at the speed of light" everywhere. I knew if I said it that way though, someone would be giving this explanation to me! Thanks for watching!

[@Rangerman9404]

The factors you mention influence the entire magnetic spectrum, so I would imagine that factors that slow down RF would slow visible (and invisible) light by the same amount

[@xraytonyb]

You are correct. Even fiber-optic cable has a velocity factor.

[@keybutnolock]

@@xraytonyb Yes, and the longer the wavelength, the slower the speed. This causes that whistle that reduces in pitch, fades and starts over. (distant lightning storms) And then there's probability amplitude for c to be + or - some % ... ha, but I don't know QM well enough to say anymore.

[@Kennynva]

Is this the scope?? Pioneer SD-1100 oscilloscope

[@pd1jdw630]

Speakers ? Sonab OA5 mkII , my guess you will hear much more. But hey, good luck trying to find a quad ore even a pair.

[@Trex1268]

Speaker wise I like my Pioneer HPM-100 (100 watt versions)

[@elonlovesyou]

Rectal in-ears?

[@johnbateman4255]

Hi you should listen to some music from a Hitachi HA 7700 amplifier. It's from the 1980s and sounds really good.

[@DoRC]

Multipass?

[@xraytonyb]

Mulltipath. Did I spell it wrong somewhere??!? Stupid spellcheck!!

[@DoRC]

xraytonyb nope. I was making a fifth Element reference:)

[@RUfromthe40s]

any good and powerfull speakers even modern, sound great with this 70´s pioneer´s amplifiers and big woofers needed for strong but clean bass about the tuner it´s like mine and it seems not a problem with it but so fm stations captured over each other so when the signal is captured it seems it goes out of center but it´s refering to the station beneath or over , regards

[@rogerwillams2814]

realistic tm -1001 tuner one of my favs it has a multipath meter has any one heard of that $12,000 dlr tuner day -sequerra think it came out in the early 90s?? i love that one tuner from sae .

[@jamesclawson9156]

Sounds like Dolby function in high frequency.

[@richardkelsch3640]

OMG you have a 1KHz tone riding on this video. Five minutes is all I could take

[@ncsuperdad]

What brand of capacitors are you using for replacing?

[@CovertCulvert]

Good question! And...what series of what brand in which circuit? Tony has addressed this to a degree in some videos, and there is another guy, Maxxarcade, who makes references to different series in different circuits, but it would be really nice if someone did an in-depth video about choosing capacitor series for particular circuits.

[@ronshaw80]

The Pioneer SD-1100 Audio Scope. www.classic-audio.com/pioneer/sd1100.html

[@xraytonyb]

Made of unobtainium! I wish I had one!

[@ronshaw80]

Me too!

[@machtschnell7452]

There is the McIntosh MPI-4

[@moodyga40]

Jbl would be the best speaker

[@shaun9107]

subsrribed today

[@gizmothewytchdoktor1049]

fried studio 4's ;-)

[@billallen2419]

To drawn out for my liking - Way to much nattering and next to nothing done on the receiver . . . .

[@gtoger]

I don't mind the "tour". Maybe it could be tightened up in editing a bit, or additional use of graphics etc. The title could possibly be revised so it's not just advertised as a repair vid. Just a thought. Fun time with some old hifi gear, though!

[@xraytonyb]

Although this video is a lot of natter, and much of its content consists of idle chatter, there are things contained within that actually matter. Yes the unimportant makes this video fatter, but many of the viewers like to know what's on my platter! Thanks so much for watching ;)