Piper Lance II - short field landing

[@michaelfortunato3117]

Thanks for the ride!

[@fredschultz6468]

With just you and big engine why wouldn't it fly, thank you so much for making the case for the T tail.

[@capt.robertodegioannis9954]

Nice Jim...! 👍

[@x0veN_trading]

Very nice. Thanks for sharing. Keep it up. Looking at buying a Lance right now.

[@gmonnig]

I miss the T-tail Lance, it felt solid on approaches and I enjoyed the handling. I own a 1960 Comanche 250 now and it has a lot of the same feel as the Lance. Manual flaps (which I absolutely love on both planes), speeds were very similar with about a 5kt advantage going to the Comanche, great useful loads, and roomy!

[@dylanszakacs4838]

I have a ‘78 turbo Lance II as well. My home runway is 3000’ and I have landed and taken off on a 2300’ grass strip many times. The T tail has outperformed what I was led to believe it would.

[@Finder245]

Any regrets since? I am also thinking about getting one.

[@dylanszakacs4838]

Honestly no regrets. It was great plane. I moved up to a malibu for more IFR capabilities

[@flyingmechanic1]

Great demonstration! I considered buying a T tail turbo lance but went for a normally aspirated low tail lance, I fly a lot from very short runways and was worried about the T tail performances and couldnt find any T tail lances around here that I could fly and see for myself... I often land/ take off from a 1500ft gravel strip with my lance and a 2500 ft ice runway during winter time.

[@mbmb1799]

I used to go into Oceano (L52) airport all the time

[@ksw1961]

Hey Jim, I'm going to look at a t tail next week. Moving from a Comanche to Lance(I hope). Thank you for posting . Please post more when you can. I needed to watch this. :)

[@piperjim3188]

Hey Kevin - thanks for the message. I failed to mention that I moved up from a Piper Archer. This is my first high performance, retract plane and at the time I recorded this video I only had 30hrs in this plane. I now have over 50hrs and still love this plane. Suits my type of flying perfectly. Again, I have no regrets and wouldn’t hesitate recommend the t-tail Lance to anyone on the fence. My wife and I will be making major upgrades in the coming year, starting with a complete interior upgrade this month. I will definitely post more videos and would love to see the Lance if you decide to purchase. By the way, your Comanche is beautiful. Cheers, and happy flying.

[@saadathosseini3581]

@@piperjim3188 Hi Jim and Kevin, I do also own a t tail turbo lance for the past 3 years, I also, like you, moved up from an Archer, you are right not much Video online for T tail Lance, I am glad you have posted, I love my plane, I love the fact that I don't have to tell my wife pack light, and I don't have to leave anyone behind, you are right, it does have some bad review( which usually from people who have never owned one) but if you learn how to fly them, they are sweet airplanes. like you do, you only have to fly them about 5 knots faster, This is how I fly mine, with zero flap, I rotate at 85 knots, I fly the down wind at 110,(one notch) base at 100 ( second notch) and final at 95 and short final at 90, I am CFI with 2000+ hours and my personal minimums are 3500 feet runways, and Kevin if you ended up buying one, try to find someone in you area that has actually flown T tail, and get really comfortable in it, they are a different animal. Thanks for your video. Sam

[@danielreuter2565]

At my home airport Palo Alto California KPAO, the runway is 2400'. Which is tiny compared to most obviously, but we have just about every kind of prop aircraft you can think of based here including T Tails. King Airs, PC-12, TBM, other twins, etc. No jets. It's sea level so that's a factor, but we also get some pretty good winds since the runway is literally right next to the SF Bay. Can be very challenging but totally do-able. And we have tons of student pilots learning here too.

[@JoshuaHambyOfficial]

Sweet. Thanks for the video. I have one in a prebuy right now looking good.

[@piperjim3188]

That’s great Joshua. Keep me posted on the prebuy. You will love the T-tail. I’ve repainted, updated the interior, and completed redone the panel since this video. I plan to own this plane for a very, very long time.

[@JoshuaHambyOfficial]

@@piperjim3188 awesome! Looking forward to the video of the updates.

[@steveburch5113]

Soooo. I bought a 1978 Lance II T-Tail yesterday. I will be following y'all carefully. I share addresses in North Georgia and Key West FL. Hence the need for load and legs.

[@brentstreater9395]

Jim, Thanks for posting this video. I’ve been considering purchasing a Lance for several months now. Happy to hear it’s been a good plane for you. What airport are you based out of? I fly out of Bowman Field KLOU in Louisville KY. Keep posting and stay safe. Brent

[@piperjim3188]

Brent, thanks for the comments. I fly out of Richmond Executive Chesterfield County Airport (KFCI). I’ve lived in Richmond Va most of my adult life and this is the closest airport. The Lance is currently in PA getting new paint and interior. I won’t have it back for a couple of months but will post more videos as soon as I can.

[@markseifried3959]

Thanks for the video. I don't understand the 90 knots on short final in a Lance. I had one for ten years. Isn;'t the bottom of the white arc about 65 knots? (That's stalling speed with gear down and flaps full ) This plane can make short takeoffs and landings very well. I always used one notch of flaps for takeoff. Why not get off the ground 5 knots earlier and save your tires from wear? I didn't notice in this video but please do not touch anything while rolling out after touchdown. It seems that everyone wants to retract the flaps. Aren't they a source of drag? When you fly a jet at an airline we touch absolutely nothing while rolling out. Concentrate on rolling out on the centerline, stopping, adding more aileron especially if the crosswind is strong, and not skidding as you exit on a wet runway. (The big jets slide real easy on wet asphalt) Our Lance was dependable and held about 1420 lbs. We flew it at 65% power with 155 knits true with about 16.5 gallons per hour & 75 degrees rich. That's about six hours of flying with no reserve. Happy Flying!

[@piperjim3188]

Hey Mark - so couple of things about this video. First, I had a grand total of 30hrs in this plane at the time. I moved up from an Archer to this plane and was keeping the speeds up until I got comfortable with the handling characteristics. Secondly, this is a t-tail, not a straight tail. So the landing and takeoff speeds are a bit higher…as is the stall speed. I now have over 250hrs in this plane and no longer use 90kts as my approach speed. I’m more in the 75-80kt range across the threshold. This tends to work much better and I’ll adjust accordingly depending on wind and/or weight. Although I haven’t tried it I’d feel very comfortable landing and taking off on a runway as short as 2500ft as long as I’m not at full gross weight. It’s a great airplane and the t-tail gets a bad rep because of the longer takeoff and landing distances, but in the grand scheme of things it’s not that much different. Lastly, there is a lot of debate around dumping flaps on touch down. I was taught to do this by my instructor and actually dumping flaps slows the plane down faster as there is not enough speed to create lift. I’ve tried this both ways and for me dumping flaps on touch down reduces my ground roll. And I’m prepared for a go around if necessary. Oh and I’ve tried taking off with one notch of flaps. Didn’t notice much difference. But if I have four people in the plane and close to full fuel I’ll use that technique. Seems to work better with higher weight. Appreciate the comments and always love hearing from other, more experienced, PA-32 pilots.

[@mbmb1799]

I own a "T" tail 32 also and I have " 0" issues

[@flyingphobiahelp]

Floated too long? If so did u adjust Vref for reduced weight?

[@piperjim3188]

Thanks for the post. So, at the time of this video I had a grand total of 30hrs in this plane. I came from a Piper Archer. I didn’t really adjust speeds for weight early on. I stuck to full gross v-speeds until I got comfortable with the plane. Now I have almost 200hrs in this plane and I have definitely adjusted v-speeds depending on weight/configuration. For instance, if I’m light my my final approach speed is usually around 85-90 knots with touch down target of 70-75. This tends to work really well. If I’m heavier I add about 5kts to theses numbers, but the adjustments I make also depends on other factors like runway length, density altitude, surface conditions, etc. To date 3000ft is the shortest runway I’ve landed on with his plane. It will definitely land on shorter runways with no problem but I’m not there yet.

[@richardchampon7209]

Really? A lance is an awesome airplane. A short runway for a lance is 2200 feet. And take off. Now that’s exceptional. Maybe you need more hours in the great single engine airplane. I flew mine to Italy and back to NYC.

[@piperjim3188]

Richard - I agree I can land on shorter runways but only with more practice and managing weight and fuel. I had a grand total of 30hrs in this plane when I filmed this video. Coming from Archer II where I could land just about anywhere I was being mindful of my lack of experience in this (new to me) plane. Also, remember this is a t-tail, not a straight tail. Landing and takeoff distances are a bit more in this plane. But I’ll get there. Better to build experience and confidence before I attempt anything too much shorter.

[@richardchampon7209]

Jim Whitehurst I stand corrected. I didn’t realize how few hours you had in the lance. I have 6000 hours as a private pilot. 5000 hours in the lance. Enjoy your time in that awesome airplane. Mine is a straight tail. I never flew the T Tail Although all the reading I have done, they are harder to land & take off, and do need more distance. Happy flying.

[@piperjim3188]

richard no worries at all. I should have been more clear in the description that I had very few hours in this plane. But I love that you’ve got a ton of hours in a Lance and still think so highly of them. I really love this plane and hope to have her a LONG time. As for the “harder to fly” part, I wouldn’t say they are harder (I’ve flown a straight tail). You just have to be vigilant on the v-speeds, which are a bit higher. But otherwise it’s a great flying plane.

[@tvapor_zone3397]

Very nice What was your fuel cost? How many hours it took you to get there and how many lending do achieve that?

[@thyagorosa879]

For sale?

[@piperjim3188]

No, not at this time. I plan on keeping this one for a long time after all the upgrades.