PirateSoftware Drama - Thor is in the Wrong | GrappLr Reacts

[@XassassinTV.]

Reason why he won't apologize is because this was intentional. It's not the first time he roach out. He clearly does not correct bad habits, and he is trying to rationalize his behaviour with the way he has always played the game. Can't wait to see what the Guild decides to do with this.

[@mrfreeman2911]

Tank made a terrible pull. Rogue did nothing and also made a bad call to "run run run". Druid actually got himself and healer killed by jumping into a third pack in the middle of video. Nothing Pirate could have done there, as Ogres are immune to many CCs. Pirate might be a cringe guy, but he really couldn't have helped much.

[@XassassinTV.]

@@mrfreeman2911 Pirate isn't the only one to blame for sure, everyone made mistakes on that run. It's the lack of accountability and remorse for his responsibility in that dungeon as a mage. Actions speaks louder than words, and people are expecting a serious punishment for this.

[@heathensein6582]

They won't do anything sadly as they're full damage control mode because he's being harassed but this is going to backfire with him involved in some bigger trouble.

[@mrfreeman2911]

@@XassassinTV. punishment? LOL! Okay bud

[@13YoJest13]

@@XassassinTV.lack of accountability? The raid leader said run so he ran and then they changed their mind halfway through. He even admitted on Tyler’s stream that yea he could have done more but the cons out weighed the pros to him. Seeing as it was the tanks who scuffed the pull and the raid leader made confusing calls. He even mentioned that he was at only 40% mana and they still tried this scuffed ass way of skipping the 2nd boss.

[@cjwarrington177]

IDK anything any this Pirate guy but he's giving big Reddit Mod energy.

[@GrappLr]

Yeah, this scenario was pretty bad. I usually like his content.

[@amuro9624]

He's usually a pretty cool guy he just didn't handle criticism well here. It's an easy trap to try to paint people as heroes and villains because it makes it easier to understand the world around you but sometimes people just do shitty things. that doesn't mean they're a shitty person. You have to be able to criticize people without putting them in categories of bad or good people because when you do that it becomes harder to give objective criticism to people because you decided they're a good or bad person earlier.

[@cjwarrington177]

@@amuro9624 Idk, I watched more of his content out of morbid curiosity, and I think he consistently comes off as a complete twat. Maybe in real life he's different, but the persona he puts in front of the camera is an insufferably egotistical dude-bro. I think the clip that really got me was this short where he talks up how he cleverly devised a way to catch cheaters (its important here that he frames it as something he invented) and then goes on to describe a method you learn in an entry level programming class. That just speaks to a mindset that, for me, immediately disqualifies someone from being "a cool guy."

[@BRADLIKESPVP]

The more I see from Pirate Software, the more I start to realize how cocky this guy is. His Viewership thinks he's always right because "he's a developer himself", but a lot of his takes are completely abysmal and his ego is massive.

[@GrappLr]

Idk, maybe I don’t watch enough, but this is the first really bad clip I’ve seen of the dude.

[@Tech419z]

I don’t mind abysmal takes where humans it’s the ego and always right mentality that’s aggravating…

[@rafaelgoncalvesdias7459]

As a dev myself I see it more as a viewer count than being a dev. Which streamer with 1mil+ subs doesn't have a inflated ego?

[@Grady655]

I jumped ship when he got upset for being called a nepo hire, then proceeded to tell a story about how he got a job at Blizzard as a teenager because his dad worked there.

[@Dunkeyhote]

He isn’t a dev though he was QA…

[@noobamonggods2556]

from the breakdown, Ozyfell aggro's the one group, then Snupy runs down aggro'ing the second group, they stayed on the ramp which the boss would be able to spot them which it does. Ozyfell and Yamdef calls to run so they run, Pirate runs Yamdef runs Sara runs but Ozyfell and Snupy decided on their own to stay back and fight. Pirate turns around blizzards to give everyone a chance to get away but they decided to stay and fight while he runs, Yamdef calls pirate out saying it's salvageable, then Snupy pulls another group which killed Sara who's the priest and then snupy dies shortly after. not defending pirate because he could have done some stuff but from what I can see it's mainly Snupy's fault for pulling the second group possibly the boss(not sure if that was snupy or ozyfell who aggro'd the boss) and then aggro's the 3rd group.

[@omega7057]

I think people are mostly mad because he's refusing to just say "mb guys, should have stayed and maybe we could have done something", instead he just goes directly to the defensive, this would have been a nothing burguer if he just tried to be somewhat humble about the whole thing

[@aidenrevetta4805]

Ozzy and Snuppy did not stay back to fight. If the priest hadnt "gone back a little bit" the tank 100% dies because he has aggro on everything and is being left behind. Agter the initial call to run 4 players decided to help each other, and Pirate roached. The bad pulls opened the opportunity of death to players, Pirate's roach guaranteed their death.

[@0rcd0c]

On 44:00 they're not bound spells & items. In his stream he actually clicks on these things up there.

[@minecrafter129]

thats how you know someone is garbage at MMOs, steven sharif the scammer also clicks.

[@maicolito1178]

Just like you thought Yamato is annoying, so did pirate. He thought, correctly, that his party played bad so its a deserved death. thats the issue, not the play. Just like he thought he was not worth dying bc of him being enchanter, he also thought he did nothing wrong and his party screwed it up so they earned their death. Its all an attitude problem not a bad play one

[@nerfedmann]

Problem was, before this raid he also pulled mobs and he said nothing about it

[@cooledcannon]

I think pirate is correct here if true.

[@varietygamer7859]

I get what your saying but pirate software talks like he is the best gamer ever and how easy wow is. He knows what he did and his ego couldn’t let him say sorry

[@GrappLr]

Idk the dude, but from the little I’ve watched, he usually seemed chill. I did wipe his entire raid group in AoC though, as a 2 man with BiS gear though xD

[@varietygamer7859]

@ fair he probably is a chill dude irl with just a big ego

[@Bordapatrol]

when he was smug about not needing addons to mythic raid, and dude plays a bear druid, i knew the level of gameplay I was gunna see.

[@Exirock]

Pirate slowly showing who he really is with the boost he getting, is Ego is pretty big and will hurt him sooner or later, him saying all the excuses in the world and having mana+pot+crystal and saying i dont hv mana cmon, the entire fight he had one thing on his mind and was run if they slip im off, its not entirely is fault but he has some cause you a the pillar they trusted with to save their asses and if you cant i mean i dont even wanna know what is he can do in the real world.

[@mizzbizz9476]

The rogue called it was salvageable and then they pulled another group and that's why people died. The only thing he did wrong was lying about not having mana. Anyone expecting him to be some sort of hero and save everyone is expecting way too much because they constantly watch people who have put the last 15 years into WoW.

[@Cptraktorn]

Fundamentally everything is ozy's fault but I knew the mob psychosis would hit so hard when pirate software wouldnt take the blame. as someone who's been a tank for almost 20 years I've never once done a bad pull and then blamed dpsers for not handling it wether they have the toolkit to do it or not.

[@aidenrevetta4805]

If you bring a healer, and they dont heal when theyre needed to heal, are they wrong?

[@typoko]

To me it looks like he burns his mana intentionally by casting high tier blizzard and then constantly blinking and casting ice armor. Tho, you can still see that he has mana for the rank 1 blizzard as the icon is not darkened.

[@gabrielsmith3993]

I've never agreed with everything someone said more than you; This was a joy to listen to.

[@cooledcannon]

42:13 "especially the part like where like are you done speaking over me alright you're out of here peace" Seems like yamato is really annoying to him and he didn't want to deal with him. Same with the entire abandon in the raid.

[@GrappLr]

I thought this too. I'll have a new vid out in an hour or two, where he does it in another scenario, without anyone being rude to him. So I'm seeing a pattern.

[@xWiranekx]

this is such a dogshit "drama". tank did a horrible pull, druid contributed to it, rogue got frustrated and pushed healer to death while also calling shitty things AND arguing WHILE the bad pull was in progress, mage roached out. even if the mage seems to have an ego, why is that the focus when clearly, the tank is the one that basically made this situation real?

[@maliciousmudkip3656]

The mage had built up an image of himself to be a very experienced, knowledgeable and rational player. That led to the inexperienced players trusting him and they paid the price for it. Afterwards his attitude was basically "Get F'd dweebs." When you act like an asshole to people, expect to be called out no matter how big your follower count is.

[@JustVexxed]

Okay so I only understand, WoW from a viewer perspective. Can someone tell me why people are hating on the guy so badly. From what I understand he admitted everyone didn't play perfectly including himself. He ran when he was told to run by the raid leader, and because he escaped with his life people are mad at him. Why is no one mad at the person who told him to run in the first place. It all just seems like the community he was in was just waiting for a reason to hate on him for the slightest reason and then they exploded. Remember he burnt all of his mana because he blinked, and he only blinked because he was told to run had he ran before it was called I would completely understand all the Hate. Pirate admitted faults and even criticised his own gameplay and it isn't that he isn't handling criticism well. If they spoke to him about what he could've done better that's criticism they went in their with burning stakes and pitchforks looking to allocate all the blame onto one person. The drama just makes it out to look like a very rotten community.

[@ZubaFix]

Run doesn't mean "Every man for himself", it means you pull out as a group, trying to keep everyone alive. He did everything wrong, did not help at all. On top of that there's a clip of him roasting other mages for not helping their party. He's a clown

[@ladyj.9350]

A big problem is that pirates been steadily accumulating haters with his attitude so when this situation happened, they jumped like hyenas. Personally I used to watch him but started noticing small things here and there not stacking up, and ultimately his inability to take an L turned me off of his content

[@captainmeris]

loving these drama videos! also, good job keeping it well thought through and observed from different perspectives. keep up the nice work man💪

[@QalTzeentch]

Your analysis of the situation seems pretty spot on. I'll also add that one more reason people find Thor's behavior extra scummy here is also because he has criticized other mages for acting the same way before (running, not pressing their buttons, etc) and because he has thrown a bit of a tantrum the last few days over other streamers "hate raiding" him for reacting to this despite OnlyFangs literally being a content guild and himself having reacted in similar manners to other incidents. It all seems very hypocritical and a little narcissistic.

[@bicentrick9989]

a year ago i was watching the guy shorts, found him wholesome tried to catch a stream of his because i appreciated his content..once i did i subbed immediately, at the time he was talking about how you shouldn't stare at the sun during an eclipse i responded jokingly "lol tell that to trump" i get banned instantly.. apparently he has a "no politics rule" i was not aware of that so tried to appeal, got a response from him saying, well you didn't even hold for even a 4 min, well watching how all this drama unfold ngl it feels revendicating

[@GrappLr]

Yeah, some people just have really weird policies. But it works for him I guess

[@RovalisGTO]

@@GrappLr no politics is a pretty common policy...

[@meritbrevity]

The biggest issue was the pull. To put a terrible pull on the mages back to fix everything is trash. 100% he could have done more. But the biggest issue was the pull.

[@RovalisGTO]

Lmfao this is so stupid. I can't get through more than 15 minutes of this. Run was called, the DPS ran. Thor wasn't going to be able to salvage this in ANY way, even with full mana, by himself. He already did more than was necessary by stopping and dropping a blizzard on the adds. This was caused by the Rogue and Warrior calling for RUN, and then changing their mind half-way through... and pulling multiple packs at the same time, as well as the boss. The amount of children back-seat driving simply because they access to the Streamer View is hilarious and pathetic.

[@GrappLr]

I’m sure you know better than multiple gladiator+ mage mains who have said otherwise in terms of what he could have done. Thank you for you input.

[@RovalisGTO]

@@GrappLr I've played WoW since the day it released in 2004. I was probably clearing MC and BWL before you were tying your own shoes bud. Hindsight is 20/20, of course Thor could have done it differently. That doesn't change the fact that Thors character could not salvage this situation. Your Gladiator+ fanboys can butter your cheeks all they want. If they think otherwise, they're wrong. And besides - you miss the point. This situation was caused by others making WAY bigger mistakes than Thor. It's like you goofballs just wanted Thor to pay a price alongside the others, for no reason whatsoever. "Run" was called, DPS ran. It's not rocket science brother. Quit trying to cash in here.

[@Acebets70]

WOW players are worse than League players...

[@austinb5656]

@@RovalisGTOhe ain’t gonna let u hit lil bro, chill and stop glazing. He was in the wrong and now he’s kicked. Done deal. No one said the pull was ever his fault. He’s at fault for hard roaching then having a gigantic ego about it. Your input is irrelevant, any sane person could see what’s up.

[@RovalisGTO]

@@austinb5656 Kid… stop arguing with adults. You didn’t change anything here. Run was called, DPS ran. Find another excuse to hate Thor.

[@StepCrow]

I’ve said this about PirateSoftware a lot; I don’t hate the guy, but he will NEVER admit when he’s wrong. He will ALWAYS double down. And that’s so frustrating to watch more than anything else, so I just don’t.

[@GrappLr]

Interesting

[@ladyj.9350]

Someone calculated the amount of active coding time that he actually did during his hours and hours of coding livestreams, and it was crazily short

[@nickchivers9029]

​@@ladyj.9350 in 164 hours of streaming, hes done 15 minutes of actual coding on his game. Whether he works on it off stream or not, thats a crazy stat.

[@Plight_]

A Roach is someone that wants to live by any means necessary. They'll throw their team under the bus, run when things are looking slightly challenging etc. They're called roaches because roaches are hard to kill and a pest

[@HoshiKisame]

Ive heard "we added" the boss and i already knew whats going to happen :D, this trash is brutal and the boss patrols the whole area, they should not have pulled the trash when the boss is already so close (like 100 yards away is close), even in normal classic i would not pull like this with this level of gear, blaming pirate for this is useless, sure he could have done more, never rely on other people to magically save you, aaaand running away like pirate is kinda scummy

[@GrappLr]

Yeah, big issue is how he handled it afterwards. If he just said “my bad” this would never have been a big deal.

[@13YoJest13]

⁠@@GrappLrhow is it his bad though? They scuffed the pull and he already admitted with Tyler1 in call that he 100% could have done more but why should he now be forced to risk his character because they scuffed the pull. The part everyone else is leaving out is that this is the 2nd attempt of this group and they scuffed it the same way the first time and he already lost confidence. Now did he making some noobie plays? Absolutely, but that raid failing was not his fault, and he accepted his part of the blame. I feel for both sides on this but if my raid leader kept being wishy washy and going back and forth on calls. I would have also just said fuck this I’m not losing my 60 cause they couldn’t pull properly. Considering how Yamato came in screaming at him during his call with Tyler and accusing him when Tyler and his entire community heard Pirate say I made mistakes and I absolutely could have done more like 30 seconds before. Yes he made mistakes but he is also human and there is no reason he has to sit there and take everyone’s slander. No reason for Yamato to coming screaming a like a 7 year playing CoD in the early 2000’s Would I be salty if I lost my character while ran yea, but I can accept that if I died it’s cause we scuffed the pull. Yes he is an expert but he is also an expert that played with people who knew how to run these dungeons. If you’re doing something the same way for years and a group just tries something you’ve never seen before you’d also say just wonder what the hell is going on. Saying people only died because he didn’t cast spells is insane. You could also say no one would have died if they didn’t over pull by trying this scuffed up way of skipping the 2nd boss.

[@jasonbaker4475]

Those that can't do... teach. So they say.

[@shrimp6647]

I think you should see also others POV, yes, he made some mistakes, but those mistakes don't matter that much. Looking from Rogue POV, rogue didn't use blind/got combo points for stun. Also when they were running away druid took another pack with them, making situation where they are dying. Also there's communication issue. Don't place fault fully on him, everyone could've done better, evaluating in % who's whole maybe pirate is 15%, priest is 5%, rogue is 20%, druid 55%, warrior 5%.

[@GrappLr]

It’s not even so much if he’s at fault, it’s his attitude afterwards. And also his lack of regard while running away. Even with the way he ran without attempting to help anyone, if he would have ended it with “idk if I did anything wrong, I’ll check vod”, this would never have been a big deal. But he’s dying on the hill if he did nothing wrong. That combined with acting like a jerk to the people on coms right after they died sits wrong with many people.

[@0rcd0c]

Rogue misplayed too but it's much harder to pull off cc on a rogue than on a mage in this situation. Also rogue was a noob and not a 20+ years veteran. Mage totally failed in terms of performance but mainly in terms of roach attitude.

[@seanhutt4621]

Yea a ton of mistakes were made from most of the players here but I don't think he should take the blame when the others screwed up a ton aswell

[@Weorhtleas]

@@seanhutt4621 It's not a case of "no one should take blame because others also screwed up", it's "everyone should take responsibility for their own actions (or lack thereof)" Could X player have played better? Absolutely. And everyone else in the group has said they could've done better, that they wish it had turned out differently, etc etc. Everyone.. except Pirate Even if you give him as much generosity as possible - he thought he was oom, he forgot about mana gem, he didn't think blizzard would help, he was scared, he was panicking, etc etc.. even in that situation, given the time it's been since the event, he should now comfortably be able to say "You guys are right, I could've used blizzard, I could've used that mana gem, maybe I could've even thrown out a polymorph or just anything. My bad, I'll do better next time" - instead, he does his best to put blame on everyone else, always saying that "no one played perfectly", and talking about how he's more valuable because he has enchanting, implying that he'll do the exact same thing again if another situation like that happens Like Summit says at the end of the clip - if Pirate is going to value his life more than others, and say that it "isn't worth it" to try and save others if it even remotely risks his own character, then why would anyone want to group with him? There's always some inherent risk trying to help someone else, even if it's 0.00001% chance of you dying, it could happen. If you aren't willing to take that tiny tiny risk, then you just aren't a team player, simple as that. Teamplay is a pretty important part of endgame dungeons/raiding in an MMORPG

[@amuro9624]

The problem is not really in how they played but more on how he reacted to criticism acting like he didn't do anything wrong and he was just a better player than all of them.

[@cooledcannon]

In a vacuum it seems like Pirate was wrong. However, it seems the possible argument is just the whole group was stupid or bad communicators. If he decided to use his blizzards/novas/polys, snupy/yama/ozzy seem likely to decide to stay. Then the stay would cause an entire wipe.

[@cooledcannon]

If the group was going to run anyways, Pirate is absolutely in the wrong considering he has the skill to save the group. If the group was going to stay if Pirate saved them, Pirate's comments actually make so much sense.

[@Corkeyw]

100% pvp players are ON AVERAGE waaaaaayyyy better players than pve players. they actually ON the spot have to adapt to a new situation and use their toolkit to stay alive efficiently - in pvp the person who makes the least amount of errors win. you can make only one MINOR mistake, but if the other person played perfectly thats gg's. pve content is pretty much solved and you expect everything so you just do the same repetitive motion every time you enter an instance. also pvp players ON AVERAGE are way better at dealing w/ higher stressed situations + dancing around low health situations that would freak out a pve player - they would know if they are in actual danger as to not unnecessarily pop defensive CD's (because pvp players understand that if they lose their defensives for nothing they will lose)

[@GrappLr]

100% true. Teaching a PvP player to PvE at a high level is 10x easier than teaching a PvE player to PvP at a high level.

[@Infidel.]

He panicked and it also seems like he knows hes not skilled enough for those clutch senarios. If you even played League or any other MOBA the worse teammate you can have are the ones who run away without looking back.

[@zacharyleffel3123]

Eh… in league it can also be bad if you try to save a teammate who is 100% dying and it gets you killed too, right? Maybe his attitude was not humble enough but if he got told to run and then wasn’t immediately ready to turn around and go back in because people changed their mind, can you really blame him?

[@Infidel.]

@zacharyleffel3123 The situation varies, and I am looking back trying to help your team as Soraka. Lissandra, Alistair is not the same as looking back as a Darius. It's never a good senario to just completely walk away without paying attention. Even bronze players know this

[@AkkarinRothen]

damn i'm seeing this shi* everywhere and people really pile this thing up... while imo, it's just so silly the whole situation. There are 2 types of person. 1 just runs out, cause of beeing scared losing his progress (which is understandable, specially in HC) and the other one tries to help the team and maybe sacrifices himself, through that action. People need to lower their expectations of heroic behaviour and just also realize and accept, that there are people without that characeristic. Pirate could have done more definitely, would it helped, we will never know. Sooo. Rog did nothing at all, druid jumped and pulled a 3rd pack. No shotcaller and if there was one, why was alomst everyone shotcalling and so on. And else, it's a game at the end.

[@GrappLr]

The way he played was scummy, but that in itself wouldn’t be a big deal. The big deal is refusing to admit they played badly, only blaming others, and dying on that hill.

[@AkkarinRothen]

@@GrappLr well i get that and i agree, but a problem for who?

[@AkkarinRothen]

@@GrappLr feels like middle school

[@DM-iz9wz]

​@@GrappLr bro he even said he could have done more 🤦‍♂️

[@amuro9624]

He's usually a cool guy so I wanted to be on his side when I first heard about this I wanted to be on his side but after hearing more explanation from different people he's clearly in the wrong. He decided the pull was bad and the whole thing is fucked so he decided to just dip out while pretending to be unable to help. At the end of the day it would still be fine cause no one wants to die and in the heat of the action people don't always make the best decisions but it's just his attitude after the thing that's problematic. He threw everyone under the bus and acted like he was above them. It could have been a situation where things didn't go well and people did bad plays but he turned it into a conflict with his attitude.

[@GrappLr]

Yeah, he handled it pretty badly imo.

[@axxessdenied]

24:00 huh... weird take to me. Maybe i am misremembering or its because I played in good guilds when I was heavily into WoW during Vanilla/TBC but using rank 1 spells was pretty common for mages in both PvE and PvP - if you actually cared about being good that is. If Pirate has been playing for as long as he says than he knows exactly how to utilize the mage class. If we had more inexperienced players join a guild we simply taught them the ways.

[@karolisbareika8306]

56:30 this was before asmon saw pirate's perspective. At the time he thought pirates out of mana, pot is on cd, and has used his gem. In other words completely oom and useless. In reality pirate, had ALL of those things plus an extra 150 mana from robes of the archmage BUT he used none of that to help out his team. He didnt even have mana pot bound. He simply watched his teammates die because of tunnel vision. He's a trash player with an ego that wasted 2 peoples several days of in-game play time and effort. Deserves all the hate, imo.

[@karolisbareika8306]

In addition, the reason why this was unsalvageable according to asmon in this clip is because both the boss and mastiff have a social aggro ability. Basically they are linked with other mobs in the room that have a chance to aggro if in range. The longer they stayed in that center room, the more mobs they would have likely pulled. I believe Mastiffs have an ability in which they can call for aid regardless. However, if they cleared either the left or right flanks they would have been safe, imo. This is because they wouldn't be in the center of the room surrounded by mobs in aggro range of the boss. Furthermore, they would have had more room to kite and avoid damage if they needed to by falling back. However they decided to skip a pack as they entered the center room. In short, the tank fucked up big time mostly because of the route he chose. However, everything that happened after he chain pulled the boss was on the mage and feral druid (who thought he can off tank the boss when the healer was at 30% mana and could only focus on healing the tank). Feral kind of deserved to die, but the healer absolutely did not, imo.

[@TunaIRL]

Wheres the mana pot in his inv?

[@seanhutt4621]

The problem was aggro the boss pack can't blame the mage for that So if we want to ignore the other mistakes that people made and try to just say that this guy could have warned the Superman cape and saved the day if he was the best player who ever played is asinine Playing the what if game and blaming someone else when the real mistake was already made they called run he ran it is what it is

[@chestierre8785]

Well I think the group knows that they all made mistakes. But situations like this will always happens, bad pulls, unexpected situations, Etc. Yes it is preventable but the thing is it happened. What makes a good player is how do you expect to act if it does happen. It is about how he handled it, he just left them to die. Running does not mean just run. Running means having the back to each other and run as group as much as possible. He just choked, that all and double down on it as response.

[@crybirb]

He did a bad call on a videogame, got insistent in being wrong, and people are being now witch hunting. We don't know how his day went or things in personal life. Maybe it was a bad day. I dont like him much because he does too much of the "I'm a dev" thing, I am a game dev in a first party, and that doesn't make me an authority on this at all. Game dev is so big that pulling that card so often feels weird to people who are in the industry since we know it's a huge collaborative effort making a game. But this is pretty ridiculous. Overall the dude has very good things to say besides my personal gripe with his ego.

[@GrappLr]

I feel the same in most scenarios, which is why I found this very weird. I went in thinking I’d be on his side, as he’s always been pretty based in his takes. But I think he’s way off.

[@Turgal_]

check Asmongold he Explains the Run completly and even in Slow motion top show the people The dude been playin this game for 20 years so knows his shit !!

[@peek3246]

​@@Turgal_calm down asmon hasn't touched wow in years. Pretty much all the wow vets are saying pirate is in the wrong for roaching here. I don't think I've even seen a single other wow vet defend pirate besides asmon 💀

[@crybirb]

@ I don't like asmon, I'm not a wow player and I'm not invested enough. The point is, dude, as it seems, made a mistake in game and was stubborn about accepting. There's no reason for this to be drama. As I mentioned I do feel he has a strong ego, related to his game dev experience.

[@shawn9922]

I don't care about Pirate software I care about the rogue who played worse and instantly flamed Pirate while telling the group what to do as a rogue main he could have saved both people he is just garbage.

[@Tain_edReaper]

Imo pirate played much worse for his experience level, knowledge and past boasts. As an example, in league of legends terms it's like pirate was a diamond rank experience player playing like a bronze rank. And the rogue with iron rank level experience playing like an iron rank. I expect the rogue to play like an iron rank. I don't expect the diamond rank to play like he's in bronze. Unless he's a fraud. So yeah in proper terms pirate played the worst in the group, mechanically, strategically and morally.

[@SlimothyPlays]

He had 1400 mana... aaaaaaaaaaaand it's gone.

[@GrappLr]

Gone in a blink... wait what?

[@Monjijii]

Grapplr ever think about joining onlyfangs?

[@GrappLr]

Could be fun

[@Monjijii]

@GrappLr I would follow your journey for sure

[@xHarakai]

I generally like Thor. He's done a few good things in the in the streaming community/world. Everyone's got their flaws, and this is one of them. Selfishness and a big ego. tbh if I was in his shoes it would be tough to keep myself in check. I can't watch more than 30 minutes of his stream because his chat glazes him 24/7. It is next levels of cringe. All that positive reinforcement can instil bad habits.

[@Kaiser25]

Get your TL;DR here folks: Supposed WoW veteran missplays (along with most of his group) and proceeds to take 0 accountability

[@paro2210]

I have done that run with tanks that has full MC raid gear and if the pull is large like it was here, with a boss, they get fucked. Dire maul mobs and bosses hits way harder than all the other dungeons. It will destroy a group like this easy. Doing the pull like that, pretty much just dooms the group. Sure if the entire group is players like Xaryu they would be fine, but average players, no chance. Also Thor having played for 20 years, doesn't say much. Because most of that time would be retail, aka no ranks on spells. I don't think Thor has played any classic private servers, and barely classic. This was a really bad pull. Should have cleared the pack to the left then pulled the patrol there, and let the boss pass.

[@0rcd0c]

Retail is much harder and more complex. You won't be strolling around with stock UI and one bar of keybinds. I have no idea how he supposedly raided mythic but his butt was probably dragged through the raid or it was very late into the tier. Judging by his skill level I'd say he's a normal raider on retail at best but more likely LFR.

[@justanobody0]

your reactions at 50 min mark and 51:40 are great (just clip worthy)

[@Angrypapalol]

I do agree with grubby that it wasn't great for yamato to yell "why are you running" at that time. That is what caused pirate to full on roach. I watched him play later that night with a different group/players and they had to exit the dungeon several times and he used rank 1 blizzard and frost nova just fine to allow those players to exit safely. He didn't do it here because he was butthurt from yamato's comment and intentionally did not help to be spiteful and petty. That seems much more plausible than him just being bad and not knowing better (we literally know he is better because of his past comments on utilizing rank 1 blizzard, and actually watching him play in other groups where he helps his teammates leave safely). I've watched many other reaction videos, and I really enjoyed yours (I sat through the entire thing). You gave a balanced and fair assessment and you seem like a cool guy. Thanks for making the reaction.

[@GrappLr]

That makes it even worse, if true.

[@Angrypapalol]

@@GrappLr Yeah :(

[@Verienn]

Nobody would care about him playing it badly, but the guy wouldnt shut up about how easy wow is and about how good he is. Then this happens, he shits the bed and refuses to admit it. And him leaving call just because he got criticized by Yamato is insanely rude. (Also Onlyfangs Grapplr arc when?)

[@GrappLr]

Maybe if they do another fresh start, I'd try to sign up for OnlyFangs.

[@Verienn]

@GrappLr that would be peak content

[@cooledcannon]

Yeah it seems he purposely let them die.

[@kingman1012]

With him deleting all negative comments about this event he is basically just creating an echo chamber where people are only allowed to say "It wasn't your fault."

[@Terry.M.I.]

pirate was for sure a roach about all in game and on coms roach behavior buuut i feel he is just getting all this attention because he is a big streamer and yamato(the rogue saying why are you running) is a league of legends player at his core it was honestly holding back when he said that he wanted to tell him to uninstall irl you could see it in his pov him biting his arm holding back its so funny so i get why he is being put under the microscope feel bad for ozzy, snupy, and sera being in between those two going at each other

[@GrappLr]

I mean, this is all drama content farming, and I have no stake in it. But I empathized with the people dying, and him being smug on voice coms and coming off as condescending really would tilt me if I had died.

[@Masterom2000xx]

If they all ran away as per the call, nobody dies but they kept going back in vs a CC immune boss. This drama is dumb lol.

[@GrappLr]

Tank needed help so healer had to back.

[@13YoJest13]

@@GrappLrfrom what I heard they could all get away and then the shot called decided “nah wait we can probably do this” and just made a terrible call that was not communicated in anyway. If they wamted to turn back they could have all gotten out first the time they originally called to run. This half baked run/don’t run kills groups in every game not just WoW bad shit calling killed more people than Thors bad plays.

[@chestierre8785]

With no disrespect, I disagree. They need to run and kite, emphasis on the kite. If they all acted the way pirate did they all gonna die with no heals and peel. Dungeon mobs are generally faster than players and sprint potion only lasts a few seconds. As some streamers pointed out if all players acted like Pirate does, there will be no tanks or healers.

[@chestierre8785]

​@@13YoJest13 hmm... They are not thinking that they can beat the boss. It was a run and kite situation. I think Yamato saying that it is salvageable is that nobody has to die which is true. When you say run in dungeon does not mean you just run l, you look up the backs with each other and run as a group if it is salvageable, which again it is. The thing is, Pirate just left them to die and just all smug about it.

[@roundededge]

Asmon had a stream planned with Pirate the day after he gave his opinion, so your not wrong.

[@Durahan82]

The Whole mess was 100% the Tank's fault, anyway. But Pirate Software choked we all saw that , as a matter of fact [besides the Priest] , everyone choked.

[@chestierre8785]

100% hahahaha. But Pirate choked the most lol.

[@catdad626]

Lol i never played wow but i know the guy reports coding the anti cheat for blizz games including wow, or was involved at least. The guy started his own company prob bc he didn't like working for people he disagree with. Probably has little patience for people blaming him. Sounds like he messed up mechanically badly, but it also sounds like he has bad blood with this guy previously and league players are notoriously toxic if that's what the other guy's history is. So he probably doesn't want to hear it again or something. People usually don't blow up at their friends like this so i feel like there's other stuff that wasn't part of the current drama. It's hard to admit you're wrong but it's harder to admit you're wrong when you don't like someone or they have been a jerk previously. We don't know everything, so I'll overlook him not wanting to ingratiate to someone in the moment, yeah sad situation for the ones who died but i dunno not all thor's fault in the first place. If we assume he panicked and messed up bc he not a good mage, how can we assume he could have successfully executed saving people with what ifs? So i think there's unknown variables between the two parties that led to the falling out. Giant nothing burger imo, glad I'm not addicted to WoW like other games I've played if it's this high stakes Edit: grubby i trust too, watched plenty of his heroes of the storm stuff. He has the right take. Communicate better, don't ask leading questions

[@Denguir]

Roach = Cockroach -__-'' Papaya 101

[@Weorhtleas]

Great take. Obviously some people take the situation too far with death threats etc, but Pirate is 100% in the wrong here. He's said things in the past that makes it seem like he's fully aware of things like rank 1 blizzard, CC in general, helping out his group.. but not only does he not live up to that, he doesn't admit that he was wrong, and seems like he's going to continue making that same decision again in the future. I certainly wouldn't be joining his group after this So many people in the guild have made bad calls, the difference is that most of them end with "I fucked up, my bad" and the players laugh it off and move on. The deaths still suck, but the situation is done within a couple hours. Pirate however has continued to double down and only made the situation worse for himself, and from what I've seen the closest he's come to an apology or owning up to the mistake was "WE didn't play perfectly". At the very least, he should've gone to sleep, and the next day just said on stream "My bad, I could've done better, you guys were right". Apologize to the people who died, doesn't even have to be on stream, and admit fault. 95%+ of people would've moved on after that

[@GrappLr]

Exactly this. Well said.

[@Turgal_]

i dont get it why he got to admit that he was Wrong when he wasnt ?? i dont know the dude , but heard about the Drama wich is Stupid over Pixels , but too be Fair been Raidleading for 15 years in Everquest 2 , when i say Run you Run no Question asked ... but First saying Run , then when they used there potion or what ever Skill to rush out Tank says come back .. Really ... Run = Run Simple ... not Run and Maybe come back .. I suggest to check Asmon Video he got it The run Completly debunk The run , Sow motion etc ... He even talk to the Group leader

[@Weorhtleas]

@@Turgal_ What do you mean he "wasn't" wrong, though? He WAS wrong. There are videos of the best mages in the game stating exactly how he could have helped. Like Soda said in this video, Asmongold is either ragebaiting, or he's just wrong. Asmon hasn't played classic (for more than a couple hours) since it was current content, and as far as I know he's never really played a mage either Who's more likely to be right? The best PvE + PvP mages currently in the game that have been playing classic for the last 5+ years, or a single warrior player who hasn't played classic in ~20 years? As has been said - he could have casted rank 1 blizzard. He could have done this with NO risk to himself, from 30 yards away (more if specced into it). There was no risk of him pulling aggro, and even if he could, the mobs would have been slowed. From 30 yards away. With his blink readily available. The only way Pirate dies there is if he disconnects, literally. I don't think a single good, knowledgeable player, would say that Pirate played it right. Don't get me wrong on that - I'm not saying he deserves the harassment etc, but it doesn't come down to opinion here. He could have done more to help, and it's LIKELY that him helping would have saved the group.

[@KubeSquared]

Let's be real, the team was dogshit, and they died cause they sucked. They were confused on whether they were running or holding, they were unable to run around the corner correctly (tight, so you don't pull extra packs), they pulled extras in the first place. Thor did nothing wrong.

[@0rcd0c]

Thor couldn't play his class and proceeded to boast how goat he is, lied about the mana, lied that he wasn't able to do anything and showed 0 compassion or accoountability for the deaths. He could have easily saved the druid if you watched his POV and probably the priest, too. Awful player with an awful attitude.

[@KubeSquared]

​@@0rcd0c typical zoomer. "we're gonna hold hands and cry together and say we're all at fault so no one feels bad about their mistakes"

[@0rcd0c]

@@KubeSquared How did you end up at THAT conclusion from what I wrote? xD Your take that piRat did nothing wrong is objectively false. He messed up big time in terms of performance and even bigger in terms of lying and attitude.

[@KubeSquared]

@ I didn't think it was possible to be on the internet and be this bad at reading. Do you have a text-to-speech read for you?

[@13YoJest13]

Shit shot calling made more people die than Thor playing badly here… They literally tried to skip the 2nd boss in a way that he has never seen anyone try before and it pulled extra mobs. You put most players in a situation they’re normally familiar with and then just start changing how stuff operates, you can’t just expect them to adapt instantly.

[@Valerianqelbri]

Asmon had the complete opposite take.

[@GrappLr]

Interesting

[@Turgal_]

@@GrappLr And Asmon ahs been playin WOW for 20 years !! I take his view tbh , not Trashing you but even if i dont know this Pirate guy you defn can see that they social Agro too much Grps !!

[@Sub-zp2gs]

@@Turgal_ He was ragebaiting so hard, and people who think his take was genuine are on heavy copium, from a streamer who tells you not to "outsource your critical thinking" all the fan boys/girls sure aren't thinking to much.... and Soda is a better player with same amount of time played, so why would you take asmond's take over his, because it fits your narrative

[@0rcd0c]

@@Turgal_ Tbh Asmon's view on this one is totally inaccurate. Anyone currently playing said otherwise and if Asmon was honest and not protecting his buddy he'd say it was 100% roaching by mage.

[@minecrafter129]

asmongold is also a scammer who supports AoC scam, not surprising he will defend a fellow scammer such as piratesoftware

[@UgyBoogie]

People just love seeing others fall from grace, that's all there is to this nothing burger situation. Thor has been a beloved content creator for years, and this "situation" only blew up because people love drama, especially when they can drag down someone on a pedestal. Even if he was entirely in the wrong here, the worst thing he did was making a bad call in a video game. And suddenly he is the devil incarnate. Absolutely ridicolous.

[@GrappLr]

I do agree; and for me personally, this only shows a small slice of his personality. I’d not extrapolate this and think he’s like this all the time. But he’s doing himself a massive disservice by digging his heels into the ground and dying on this hill. He’s strictly in the wrong.

[@UgyBoogie]

@@GrappLr The main issue is that there is a hill at all. If everyone involved just went "Oh dang, that could've gone better" from the beginning, no one would bat an eye at this whole ordeal. Again, all of this over a misstep in a video game... poorly handled by everyone involved.

[@StereotypicalOtaku]

@@UgyBoogie When you make a mistake, you say you're sorry. People spend hundreds of hours on their characters, and that progress has been irrevocably erased. It's only natural that these people are frustrated. In this situation, he needs to take accountability for his actions - at this point, they're just asking for the recognition of it. But Thor doubled, tripled, quadrupled down, and, feeling defensive, he belittled other people in this moment rather than trying to defuse the situation. Maybe this isn't a microcosm of his behavior, but it just doesn't look good for someone who people really believed in (and has said he has a lot of knowledge on how to play the game).

[@phwang94]

This isn't about playing poorly. Literally everybody agrees that panic can set in and people misplay all the time. People are annoyed because he refuses to admit he could have done more and condescends to others the whole time. And now he's playing the victim as though everyone is solely blaming him. Literally everyone agrees the initial pull was bad and there was multiple mistakes from others aggroing other packs of mobs as well. If he literally just said "my bad, i panicked and didn't want to die" nobody would have held it against him. Onlyfangs is a streamer guild, it's filled with people with little to no experience in WoW. Playing poorly is not a problem. This vid also skips over 11:18-11:19 in the vid, where Pirate mouses over his mana gem and robe. I think that's what he first realized he still had mana. This is where I think it goes from bad gameplay to actually malicious. His team was still actively trying to get out, if he could swallow his pride he could still have turned around and helped then. Snupy, the second person to die, dies entirely to the dogs (his POV was streamed as well). Pirate could have easily saved him.

[@cooledcannon]

I think usually Pirate would've saved the group. He just didn't want to here. Someone who's more familiar with him in other groups can weigh in.

[@unwillingprophet1567]

Unfortunately most people have seen a cherry picked video. He actually pulled an extra group and then pretended like he didn't, he is actually smirking as he runs away. All he needs to do is say Sorry, I messed up, could have played that better. But his ego is so fragile he would prefer to ban his own supporters when they question it at all. And be careful what you say, he has apparently called daddy for help and rumor is bans are going out in Warcraft to people who make fun of him.

[@GeorgeKarala]

Nah if leader says run everyone should start running they stopped there are povs literally standing there instead running yeah thor had some mana but not anything game changing this is leader calls fault

[@GrappLr]

I’d entertain this take, but vid just came out and you havnt had time to watch whole thing.

[@solitudesf8111]

cope

[@cinamoonmoon]

@@GrappLr i have no idea what is going on why is this a thing??

[@basal4425]

When someone says to run they don't mean "RUN TO THE EXIT OF THE DUNGEON", they mean "RUN AWY FROM THE SHIT THATS ATTACKING US AT THIS MOMENT". Pirate literally abandoned his team and ran to the exit lmao.

[@GeorgeKarala]

@@basal4425 one run is fall back two run is fall back spamming run means leave also they are not too farm from exit so yeah

[@connorsegren6066]

You should really watch asmons video on this. While there were more things thor couldve done, the druid ass pulling 3 other mobs kinda screwed everyone.

[@GrappLr]

Maybe I should. But how does that change the fact that he could have cast a few blizzards and allowed everyone to run via the slow?

[@nothgorb9115]

Definitely give it a watch. As you noticed, they started when he's at like half mana, they pull, he blizzards the mobs which kills a lot of his mana, they ass pull extra mobs, they adjusted too poorly to account for the boss, they pull the boss at 1:21 of your video, then call to kill mastiffs when they've already called to run.. and arousal lot of ppl give him crap for using the wrong rank blizzard...chances are he's already knee-deep in fight or flight so he's not making perfect decisions... then when the tank is clear of danger and could run, he goes back in for some reason that we can't see here, when it's a terrible doomed pull to start. I agree with the idea you should attempt to help as much as you can, especially when youre pretty much in the clear yourself, but that doesnt change that the start of the video shows a hugely problematic pull. Thor isn't the only one that messed up this situation, he's being targeted because of who he is and it's being blown way out of proportion. TLDR: he didn't have much mana to start, he panicked, he forgot consumables, forgot rank 1 blizzard and he ran the hell out as was called. He could have helped more, but we have the benefit of hindsight decision making, it's easy to criticize from that standpoint.

[@connorsegren6066]

Because they didn't stick to the call, they called run, then waffled on salvaging it, then ran again. If they had stuck to the run less people would've died.

[@connorsegren6066]

@@nothgorb9115 definitely agree on this. He did not cause everyone to die, he simply acted decisively on the call that was made and when the caller second guessed themselves and called everyone back and let the mobs run up, with the rogue not doing anything either. If everyone had gotten clear kess folks would've died if any

[@Weorhtleas]

@@nothgorb9115 No one here is making the argument of "Pirate didn't play perfectly, therefore he's trash, I hate Pirate, everyone else was amazing and had no mistakes at all" though. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone forgets things, no one is going to play perfectly. Especially in hardcore, especially once they start panicking The issue isn't his level of play. The issue is that he thinks there was absolutely nothing he could have done whatsoever, even after being told that there is, and instead of realizing that and saying "You're right, I could've cast a few rank 1 blizzards, used my mana gem, hell even just thrown out a polymorph or something. My bad guys, I'm sorry you died" he's gone the route of.. shifting the blame to everyone else, STILL saying that he couldn't do anything due to mana, and then saying that his life is more valuable because he's an enchanter. That he wouldn't risk his life to save someone else unless he knows 100% that he won't die, which you will NEVER know, which means he will never attempt to save another player. Which not only leads to more people trolling (which to be fair, a lot of people have taken way too far with death threats etc, no one is condoning that) but also leads to people not trusting him. As Summit says in this video - if a player values their life more than yours, and isn't willing to be a team player in an MMORPG where teamwork is highly important, why would anyone group with him? Everyone else in that group misplayed (except maybe sara), everyone else in that group accepts that. They've all said they could've done more, that they wish they had done X differently, that they're sorry to the people who died. Everyone except Pirate. That is the issue people have with it

[@Dunkeyhote]

Roach software

[@wintervale474]

L take here, watch Asmon's video. Thor did absolutely nothing wrong here.

[@0rcd0c]

I've never seen Asmon spill so much bs in so little time. His take was as dog poop as piRats performance.

[@Weorhtleas]

Asmon hasn't touched WoW in years, and hasn't played vanilla since it was current content. AKA, ~20 years ago. He's also never really played a mage. Compare that to the multiple top tier PvE/PvP mages that have played classic since it came out and are all in agreeance that Pirate could have done more. Pretty obvious who's correct here. Asmon is either just wrong, or he's ragebaiting.

[@aidenrevetta4805]

Asmon is the ONLY streamer that has come out defending Thor here, and he's never once played mage. Literally every other streamer who has reacted to this agrees that Pirate could have easily helped his team

[@tylerparks5926]

The only people in the wrong are the rogue and the druid, as well as the troglodytes crying about pirate software lol. (And no I don't watch the guy, nor any of these boring content creators) Glad I never watched any of your videos lol, def a pathetic waste case. Waste all the time in the world replying, you will get ignored because you have nothing to say of value. You literally sat here and talked about details of a game you don't play and were wrong about EVERY DETAIL lol.

[@PaulSmith-fd2gy]

Harden up = Run apparently

[@tibz7634]

Guy who knows little about WoW, gives a oppinion on something he knows shit of. "Oh I dont know what classes these are". Its clear af its priest rogue warrior druid mage. Just made the video to leech of a hot subject.

[@GrappLr]

I no lifed OG classic wow when it launched a few years ago. It’s easy to forget icons if not playing a game for years. Chill

[@tibz7634]

@@GrappLr And u didnt even make it to Dire Maul, so you barely played.