Piratesoftware Dire Maul - A 20 year tanks perspective on the drama

[@StayHungry41]

Anytime I group in hardcore and people want to do risky skips, I tell everyone in the party to type /played. Then I ask, is that amount of time worth risking just to save yourself 90 seconds? You can usually talk people into taking it slow after that.

[@Mythix-net]

Man, this is smart on so many levels. Its really hard to get people to get their brain out of the game for a second and reflect, thats pretty good.

[@arthurgrey8967]

Spot on. This is 100% on the tank imo. The mage didn't play well and definitely prioritized himself over the group, but I have little issue with that fact. The second guessing the call to run out was dumb and I wouldn't have listened either. Would have tried to cc before leaving, but the tank and rogue negated that anyway by deciding to stay and fight. In terms of game play errors he was the only one not at fault other than the healer. The rogue was useless other than encouraging others to risk their character with his inane calls. The druid killed himself by running around spastically and pulling a 3rd set of mobs. The poor priest died because he was the healer and had an inherent responsibility to try to keep up the tank and others. He should have been more selfish and said to hell with this stupidity.

[@thecreeker1917]

Damn, that's a logical strike from the tank. That's hella smart!

[@Ozymandias-ri6gz]

@@arthurgrey8967 I keep seeing people saying "they went back on the call to run", "they decided to stay and fight". That's simply not true. They never stopped moving towards the exit and the call to "run" doesn't mean to just run out without helping your group members in the first place. You can move and fight at the same time. The rogue and the druid are both new classic players, you can't really put the responsibility to save the group on them, especially if you have a (supposedly) experienced mage there. If the mage stayed with the group, there would have been no risk at all. He could have kept the trash mobs slowed/rooted and they could have walked out of there while the tank holds aggro on the boss. If you acknowledge that it is the priests inherent responsibility to heal, then you also have to acknowledge that it is the mages inherent responsibility to slow/root the trash. Even if the bad pull is on the tank, everything that happened after is on the mage who left his group to die. Not to mention that they were all in coms. Everyone could have voiced their concerns for the route the tank chose and his pulls, but the mage was literally talking to someone on discord who wasn't even in the group about completely unrelated topics. And to make this clear; the reason Pirate is getting so much flak for this situation is not just because he left his (guild) group behind. It's because he always acted like this classic WoW guru, criticising other mages for not helping in situations like this one and boasting about all the things he would do better, talking about how his favorite moments in hardcore are whenever someone makes a mistake in a dungeon and the whole group has to work together to get out alive. And the worst thing is that he didn't even acknowledge that he left his group behind after he let 2 of his guild mates die. He smugly put all the blame on the group, took 0 accountability and left the call, acting like he did nothing wrong at all. Meanwhile everyone else in the group admitted their mistakes.

[@craftypacaderm]

Genuinely a genius idea.

[@YupYupIWin]

Best take... 8:58 Sara did fear there... The only one I saw in all the clips doing their job perfectly is the healer... Sara GOAT!!!

[@Mythix-net]

@@YupYupIWin yeah great player, the group let Sara down on this one

[@CineGoodog]

if she did everything perfectly she would be alive, she shoulda have just let people die and saved herself. GL on her next character. Never rely on other people for your survival.

[@Promatheos]

@@CineGoodog That's ironic advice, never rely on others to live, when talking about the healer...the role everyone is relying on to live. Sara made a bad call for their own life, but the right call for the team. Someone else would be dead instead if they didn't heal. They played a perfect for a team-oriented goal.

[@YupYupIWin]

@@CineGoodog Bait better... Go fetch dog

[@BobbyFlay14]

Yeah Sara is a beast. She had 9 ears at the time of death. Shouldn’t have died for them

[@rokman5000]

As a fellow tank of 20 years when you started playing the video, before you even said anything I was like "Why is he face pulling? He should be pulling those back".

[@Mythix-net]

@@rokman5000 hahaha yeah

[@anotherhuman21]

first time watching his pov.... good lord ozzy could have prevented all of this. - not 20yr tank but a good 8+

[@robertsteinagle8798]

Honestly first thing I thought when I saw this is why not break Los to pull as someone who used to play pally tank for years it made me mad

[@Daz86.]

the first time i tanked i was very hesitant but some guildies were desperate, i didnt want the responsibility, im very casual when i hit 69/70 most players were rolling 2nd or 3rd alts. one guy said hes a pro he'll walk me thru it. it was only valiance keep or w/e its called. the stuff he told me was all simple common sense stuff and the ranged pull was the 1st tip he gave. "pull stuff back to us from range, and kill the casters 1st 99% of the time"

[@jessenichols9618]

I think face pulling is a bad habit that was formed by alot of tanks because dps has became increasingly picky about speed. This comes from a non hard-core player tho

[@ArchFline]

As a tank main I completely agree. The tank is always responsible for the pace and position of the party. The tank here fucked the group because he wanted to go fast.

[@Mythix-net]

For sure, not that I want any drama or anything for Ozy I think he was just having an off day but yeah he was definitely responsible for the way things unfolded for his team here.

[@kissme1518]

He was likely pressured into going fast. I know this for a fact as a tank. If you don't put a certain pace in the dps starts pulling and mucking it up. Ozy is the kind of guy to get pressured by the group and this group has been going on for a while. As the tank you have to state if they want to rush shit and start pulling they can die and I'm going to leave them to their death. You have to be assertive like that.

[@thebigzdog08]

Its the whole groups fault THEY ALL panicked and its what caused them to get ppl killed. Rogue did nothing just crying bout the mage and didn't even help to slow/stop the mobs, the tank faced pulled and the then ofc the mage also didn't try and help and just worried bout himself which i think is def selfish. The only person who has the right to complain was the poor healer imagine that poor guy trying to heal and keep everyone up during the chaos lol.

[@SirKanti1]

Funny thing is Pirater and the healer didn't seem to panic at all. Just did what they were told to do. Warrior, druid and Rogues were panicking and calling bad shots. Rip Sara, you were too good for this world.

[@martinusgerbald]

nope, not everyone panicked,watch the mage POV. He did not panic. It was all calculated.

[@UrsusObesus]

@@SirKanti1 The problem was they didn't know the dungeon. The Boss runs faster than players and can't be snared/slowed. So when the call to run happened all the mobs but the boss were slowed already. The boss caught up to Ozzy who was running with his back to the boss and got dazed. This allowed the Hyenas to catch Ozzy and snare him, which is why they then called for them to be killed. Go watch the rogues VOD, he's doing nothing to help but yelling and actually biting his arm. Ozzy 100% got the two players killed by trying to take shortcuts and doing an ass pull. There is nothing you can do to stop the boss who is constantly Dazing a player.

[@thebigzdog08]

@@martinusgerbald yea i agree but pirate did play very selfishly and couldve helped crying bout mana when he has a mana gem and robes that were both not used lmfao

[@thebigzdog08]

@@SirKanti1 ikr i feel soo bad for the poor healer the one who got cucked the most from that whole experience 😭

[@Geadsss]

Tank failed the pull, utility failed locking down ads, panic set in, everybody messed up

[@Evirthewarrior]

The whole pirate thing in a nut shell: First it was "he roached out" Then it was "he didn't even help when he could have" after people said he was told to run Then it was "he should just admit he could have done something" after it was pointed out that the rogue didn't do anything either when he had tons of chances to Then it was "well it was his ego man" after he did admit he could have done something. Seems to me like people just wanted someone to blame and hate.

[@Mythix-net]

Its definitely social dogpiling that I think people wanted to get into because of Pirates response.

[@Salty876]

Yeah you nailed it. They were probably angry over the loss, wanted a witch hunt, Pirate sensed it, and didn't give them the scapegoat they wanted. He could have done more for the team sure, but watching him take all the heat when the responsibility is basically split between the tank and rogue is insane. That Yama character seems like a real tool to deal with to be frank. I wouldn't play with em.

[@AcidPop101]

I don’t know pirate. But he def could have helped peel, but he just ran and left his GUILD behind. Sure it was a bad pull, but they definitely could have burned thru the adds and the cat go bear and tank the boss. He swears that he has all this experience and yet he is still clicking skills and laying down terrible blizzards. No cone of cold no nova and more importantly no damn keybinds. Who the fuck clicks on skills like this in 2025, how can you say you a wow veteran and have no keybinds.

[@hatinguh]

It’s called moving the goalpost , they won’t let you go no matter what you do

[@ashiok]

He didn't really apologize, though. You should look into narcissism. Narcissists never actually apologize, they deflect responsibility ('everyone made mistakes, we could have played it better' is not the same as 'I'm sorry', and this isn't a minor semantic thing because it very deeply relates to the pattern of behavior). Pirate has quite literally never, in his entire life on the internet, admitted to his own mistake by its own terms, i.e. without deflecting responsibility, and so on. Find me one single clip of Pirate ever simply saying "I'm sorry" after making a mistake, and I will respond to you in such a way as to admit that I am wrong about everything and you are much smarter than I could ever hope to be. I will fully concede every aspect of myself if you can find a single clip of this. And it's not fair to deflect responsibility so as to make it sound like everyone is equally culpable when certain roles have way more agency and relevance than others. In the scenario which unfolded, the most responsible players for the negative outcome are the tank (first and foremost, but the tank fully accepted this post-mortum) followed by Pirate. Any other assessment is simply objectively incorrect (i.e. blaming the rogue OVER the mage, which is a great litmus test for people who are outing themselves as not being very good at the game) and indicates a lack of mechanical understanding of the game and its limits. Also, as for him running when told, this point has been refuted several times over. Please look into Savix' response so that you can understand the perspective from an intelligent person who is good at the game. I don't mean this offensively, but based on your perception of this it seems fairly apparent that you either don't play WoW much, or you're not very good at it despite whatever experience you might have. At any rate, just check out Savix' content for an example.

[@Ryan-qu4vx]

Honestly, I think the main thing Pirate did wrong was that he didn't leave the group after the first fail. He was clearly titled by the groups risk taking behavior and bad positioning so when they pulled all the mobs and went back on the run call he just camped in a good los position. I could almost hear him think "you are either going to figure out your positioning or you are going to die, and I don't care which one it is", I have been that caster before and I was never in a good headspace when having those thoughts.

[@ThePalo48]

Except the first fail pull was actually pirates fault. He asspulled. So it would be kinda hard to just leave because of that. Especially with his ego.

[@Ryan-qu4vx]

@@ThePalo48 This is just my opinion but failing because of buttpulls is failing because of bad positioning. I don't blame the druid for aggroing mobs even though he technically aggroed all three that run. You have to anticipate that your team is going to move erratically in a fight and give them space to do that without worrying about accidental aggro.

[@edgybravo4287]

@@Ryan-qu4vx first asspull was his fault and he left them as well. Second one wasn't his fault but he also left them. He just a rat it's obvious. He played terrible insta canceling max blizzard and then acting like he didn't have mana which was a lie he used the rest of his mana to prove a point you can clearly see it in his pov. Idk why people are online doing crazy mental gymnastics to try and explain the situation like the dude's a rat and he sucks and when he got called out for it by a noob player (the rogue) he got tilted and purposely let them die. You could clearly see him cursor over his gem then snarkly smirk and said to himself "nah Imma let them die". It's quite obvious that's what happened.

[@Ryan-qu4vx]

@ So which part of my assessment do you disagree with? Is it the fact that you think asspulls are the fault of the person who accidentally aggroed? Because everything else is basically my statement with additional "Pirate sucks" flavor.

[@edgybravo4287]

@ I disagree with the part when you said his main mistake was he didn't leave after the first fail. Because the first fail was literally his fault? And as you can see from his PoV he clearly thinks his gameplay is perfection and how could it be his fault? 🤣 The rest of what you said is true and I agree. The main thing I wanted to add was only the point of the "noob" rogue tilting him. You can clearly see that he did NOT like the fact that someone he considered worse than him called him out on playing badly. He instantly got snarky and even wasted the rest of his mana to prove a point. And that was the reason he didn't like that a "bad" player was calling him out. That's it bud I don't got no beef with you I just was saying.

[@MoonmunkPersonal]

mythix, this is why I subbed. "I don't want to rag on them as people, I want to rag on their play styles". That is such a fresh breath of air for not only the wow community (Hardcore, retail, classic, turtle doesn't matter) but for the internet in general.

[@Mythix-net]

@@MoonmunkPersonal Thank you Moonmunk I appreciate it, hopefully with enough effort we can make positive impacts

[@plaguesseven9163]

@@Mythix-net Your response to this incident made me subscribe to your channel. Great to see a another vet apply common military principles to video games to make them fun. Slow is fast...

[@Weeho_]

"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast" we used in the navy too, I use it everyday still. IRL, mmo's, ect. It's a gg motto.

[@cavalieroutdoors6036]

I've played all three roles in various MMOs - tank, healer, and DPS. I suppose you could add 'crowd control' to the roster but usually that falls into the DPS square. I've also been in a position to make calls on what plays the team should be making. Oddly enough I hadn't considered it from the tank perspective - because I didn't know that he streamed too, and up to this moment had not seen his perspective. Good synopsis, he really did drop the ball hard here. From where I sit, the rogue caused a full break down of cohesion the moment the 'call' switched from 'run' to 'wait, stand and fight!' There was some small amount of group cohesion while they were trying to salvage it, there was still a bit of cohesion once the call to run was made. Once the call to come back and salvage it was made - and the infighting began, it was just pure chaos. And the seed of it was the rogue. The tank did an oops, but that was a recoverable oops in my estimation if it had stopped with just that one pack. Sometimes you can make changes to your strategy as things progress. But it can't be as drastic as, 'Run run run!' flipping to, 'No wait...come back! We can salvage this!' especially as things are getting worse - not better. Now confusion and doubt are sewn, because there are two very different orders in a short span of time and that will cause some people's brain to short circuit. They'll hesitate and think instead of acting, and even taking the wrong action but doing it decisively is usually a better outcome than hesitating. Plus there is now doubt in the shot caller's ability to assess situations. Particularly if, for example, a player is now doing their own assessment of the situation and coming to a different conclusion than the one saying this can be saved. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the person calling the shots. And honestly I think this problem started much earlier. I'm wondering whose decision it was to try skipping trash packs. And in the earlier attempt at the other wing of Dire Maul, who decided to try skipping trash and a boss. Was the tank the sole person making these decisions, or was he doing what someone else told him to? When I tank, typically my response is, "That's a cool strategy - but we're doing this my way this time." If they don't like it, they're free to exit the party. Most healers that I've met are on board with slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. It's usually a DPS player that wants to go-go-go and skip all the things, and more often than not it isn't a DPS player that relies on Mana who has to stop and drink every now and then.

[@Mythix-net]

Definitely good psychology insights definitely some truth to the hesitation setting in when mixed calls are happening.

[@shade0mirth]

Avoiding mixed calls is something I would have thought was obvious. "Order, counter-order, disorder," as the saying goes.

[@Ashaman0gbg]

Facepull and abilities, Not a single interrupt at any point, failed target selection (split focus on initial, rogue on dogs, druid far back and dashing in late), Sara chunked on initial pull overpull. no crowd control on ANYONE except 2 blizzards and a scream on Sara before dying (forgot a late stomp), Rogue eating his own arm and not playing, Mage running and not playing, Spacial/situational awareness on the run out, Tone of coms/coms focus, Split calls. -Edit- Can add 'Expecting others to clutch' as a general fail aswell. Had a long analysis.. but deleted it, because: In the end its the Coms/Vibe that causes all this, both before the pull(no focus) and after(mixed signals and blamegame). Listening to them - 80% of it comes from an aggressive sounding german drowning out everything else. Ofcourse people will go defensive. I wasnt in there, and I actually want to smack the Rogue in the face for not shutting up when the Tank needs to lead coms.

[@AmongRevenants]

I saw a breakdown of fault yesterday. Tank - 65% Healer - 5% all dps 10% each Sounds about right. It was all do to a crap tank making a bad pull and losing control. Yet every demanded the mage apologize for killing two players. Each of those deaths chose to group up and stay grouped with a bad tank doing sloppy clears for sake of speed. Their deaths are on themselves, for self-sacrificing, to save a bad tank, over the greater good of the raid.

[@Araseth]

People REALLY wanna hate Pirate Software for some reason, its fucking weird. Regardless of whether or not he's at fault the fact that he's gotten DOXXED and DEATH THREATS over this event is fucking insane.

[@Mythix-net]

Agreed man super crazy escalations.

[@jvrd243]

It really isn't any weird, just type his name and "prof of being an assh*" on yt see and take your own opinion. The problem is not in this event in wow, It's everywhere he is, the dude has more ego and superiority síndrome than Vegeta in DBZ, and i'm not even going to go in his kinky furry past.

[@paulwong8985]

The majority of his original audience are a bunch wretches. Him getting flak from a video with Asmon is proof.

[@devinusleton6634]

ok i hadn't seen ozy's pov before and like.... he's just staring that patrol in the face as he face pulls? ...why?

[@Mythix-net]

@@devinusleton6634 haha yeah I think he might have just had other stuff going on

[@deneios1905]

Because ozy is a bad tank and should probably roll something else than a warrior.

[@cavalieroutdoors6036]

Clearly not paying attention. You couldn't miss the pack of mobs right at the bottom of the ramp from his perspective.

[@devinusleton6634]

@@cavalieroutdoors6036 lol it's just the absurdity of him staring RIGHT AT THEM that gets me

[@bugnazbinnyking1198]

For a while I was wondering if he couldn't see the patrols because he was playing Scrolled Into 1st Perspective (I did it once by accident), but then I realised - it is HIS perspective we are watching...

[@lilijagaming]

The best take so far. While I've been a healer in Vanilla and a DPS for the rest of my WoW experience (over 2 decades), I've always known that if the tank doesn't do certain things, it's asking for trouble and anything that happens afterwards is irrelevant. The rogue was the one that made most of the fuss (during the situation and afterwards). Only because he stayed closed, he still did less than Pirate, who at least tried before running out of mana (and the argument could be made that he should have used lower ranks but burned most of his mana before it was known it would be an overpull). I have certain doubts about whether Frost Nova would have helped. Frost Nova has this tendency to make mobs attack people randomly in melee. I've died so many times in WoW by a mage trying to "save me" with a Frost Nova. And looking at this situation there wasn't really a 100% safe moment for Frost Nova. From the Pirate's pov, it looked like a miscommunication. It happens that mages are the fastest when it comes to moving away from the threat. He didn't the rest of the group moved back and the call to do so was not clear. And in my experience, if you call "run" you DO NOT change your mind. Maybe this is because I was mainly a raider is why I see proper calling as the main point of responsibility and blaming anyone for not being a mind reader after bad calls is unfair. This is what it looked like to me in this situation. The tank didn't look like he was in that much danger and calling for others to move back put them in greater danger. And yes, there was a point where Pirate made a judgement call to not come back to help. He was obviously considering that when was called looking at his actions. The call he made seems like from the point of lack of trust towards the rest of the team and seeing the types of mistakes the others did till that point, I would not trust the others to be capable of keeping him safe if he ran back. It is correct that frost mages are at the top of kiting capabilities but given the nature of their skills (especially how wonky the frost nova is), the other people need to gtfo for that to work. The rest of the group didn't look like doing that.

[@Mythix-net]

Wow, this is a really great and articulate response that has alot of critical thought and depth. First I really appreciated your response regarding frost nova and your 100% right it does have a tendency to switch the aggro of the mobs to the nearest target which can be incredibly dangerous if they are nova'd when someone is casting a spell cause they will get dropped immediately. Second I really appreciated that your response was clearly your own ideas. Many times people will regurgitate what they hear from their favorite streamer without making their own opinions. This was clearly unique. Great response. Edit: Fixed my Grammar.

[@D-Boy22]

@@Mythix-net Brilliant exchange right here, rare to see

[@Schamisheep]

I've seen the pov of pirate and especially for the last part I agree. I think he didn't really realize they pulled two additional groups on their way to the entrance and when he realized this he probably thought something like "If I go in there, there is a high probability of me not surviving this." especially because at that point there where mobs running around completely wild attacking everyone (except the rogue because he basically only stood next to them and blamed pirate..). If I where in this situation I would probably also hesitate to help, simply because it was already a terrible idea to ignore the groups they added accidentally on their way to the boss and I would be really mad if such calls would kill my character.

[@Tuttlund]

What do you mean” u do bot change your mind? ” you saw him do the same thing in the dungeon before where he was the one who buttpulled and did nothing to aid his teammates? Whp cares if he trusts them? Thats the beauty and strength of mages. They dont need anyone else but everyone needs them. And how is trust something you need to cast 3 rank 1 blizzards? Please stop talking about psychology of anyone but pirates, its actually completely irrelevant. Multiple dungeons go sideways everyday and u NEVER see stuff like this happen from any other mage. Lacari would do that better and the guy has 19 years less of experience?

[@blackyvertigo]

yamdef did literally nothing. when the run was called he stopped all dps. just played cheerleader. whined that pirate was walking. no poisons, no gouges, no cp for a kidney, no vanish into cs and didnt even think to blind until at the door - and tries to blind the boss. a 60 hardcore rogue should not be that inept with their toolkit - unless he has been hard carried by mages.

[@Mythix-net]

Completely agree that he should have done way more. I was super annoyed hearing him call for everyone else to act while just sitting there haha.

[@ResidentFurryx]

I think what's not talked about enough is how Yamdef came at him immediately after the incident was over. I fully believe that if Yamdef was more measured in his response to Thor, he would have been more receptive. But Yamdef, his fans, and a lot of people just looking for a way to farm content or hate on Pirate. All decided to witch hunt and shift an undue amount of blame onto him. Despite the main driver of this being the most useless and disruptive one of the bunch, Yamdef. This is also the reason that this hasnt been let go already, and why it's not only pointless, but counterproductive for Pirate to give a public apology. Most of the people going in on him have already decided they hate him, and theyll just keep moving that goal post until there is another incident to draw their attention. Ive seen it many times before.

[@daxxian]

This, exactly this...once the blood is in the water and the dogpile starts there's no point in giving the mob more blood.

[@kolrengenify]

It is never counterproductive to you, yourself, being a decent human being. Pirate can stop being a complete narcissist about the ordeal and point out that Yam was a douche all at the same time. No need for him to quadruple down on being an asshole. Really bad take.

[@jaykay9783]

@@kolrengenify Right, like that would have changed anything, that crazy german was set from the start to blame pirate, nothing pirate could have said besides taking 100% responsibility would have satisfied that idiot. Which would have caused the same shit behavior from yamdefs followers. Your take is just dog shit.Yamdef did NOTHING but run his mouth, the tank and druid made mistake after mistake that got the priest killed. if they just kept retreating towards the entrance and the trash pack down the ramp, things might have been salvageable if the druid didn't pull that 3rd pack there.

[@jshadow62]

I have seen a bunch of LoL players say that he is known for 3 things. 1. Yelling at and over people. 2. Being toxic. 3. If something went wrong, he always pushes the blame on to others. That's from people who have played league since that's the community he is initially from. He seems to be new to WoW so I'm gonna have to agree with with the other LoL fans are saying about him.

[@daxxian]

​@@kolrengenify Yeah no, it's pretty obvious Yama is a tool and noone is going to respond well to some angry kid throwing a tantrum. It's come out pirate reached out to everyone else except him and apologized privately and their all cool. The only one's still stirring up trouble is yama and the other streamers milking this for drama. AFAIK he was still on stream for a few hours after this happened and it only continued to escalate after that. It's one thing to be human privately, but making a show of some public humiliation ritual, which you and I both know is what everyone really wanted "repent sinner! we want to see you prostrate before our outrage!"... these are 2 very different things. TLDR: was pirate being a douche? probably. Did yama personally deserve some big public apology? hell no

[@RandR383]

If ppl are honest with themselves, this is all on the tank and the rogue. Whether you think Pirate roached out or not, he wouldn't have had to if those 3 idiots didn't do the things they did. Anyone that has played WoW for years knows we don't reward bad players by saving them, we let them learn from their mistakes. If I was in Pirates position, the only person I would have tried to save was Sara, but all she had to do was keep running also. Blame percentage Ozy: 60%, BAD TANK!!! Yama: 30% for awful callouts, 3 calls to run then uncalled when he shouldn't have, Snupy: 5% because he got himself killed lmao by just not running and panic jumping into a 3rd mob, Pirate 5% for joining that group.

[@Mythix-net]

@@RandR383 definitely man Its funny cause people are so quick to talk smack but Ive played with all these dudes, they do the exact same thing OR WORSE lol. But despite it they dog piled on him so fast, crazy.

[@jaykay9783]

Pretty much agree with you, the only thing you missed is the druid pulling both extra packs. If you watch closely at the initial pull the druid moves behind the ogre butt pulling that 2nd pack. not to mention he doesn't really retreats, then starts jumping around on the lower ramp butt pulling the 2nd pack which eventually got sara killed.

[@trevorgibbsnc]

Here’s my blame outlook: Blame order: Tank 50% Druid 40%, Rogue 10%, Pirate 0%, Healer 0% Tank: poor party placement Druid: Pulled Boss and 2nd Pack Rogue: zero CC, said RUN Pirate: used blizzard to slow Healer: 100% in the clear

[@cavalieroutdoors6036]

@@trevorgibbsnc I do give the healer a little bit of blame. Too selfless. And maybe too slow on the psychic scream. Maybe give Pirate some blame too, for the opposite reason. But it's not a ton. The healer could've saved themselves. Pirate probably could've done a little more before saving his own bacon. But the root cause of the problem I will agree was awful tanking, and the Druid not paying attention to his positioning. And of course the rogue with the confusing 'Do this! No wait, do the opposite of what I just said!' calls.

[@KarazolaX]

The mage could have completely saved the group if he hadn't played as poorly as he did. He was instantly halfway across kalimdor, when all he needed to completely save the group could have just been a frost nova. And there's clips of him talking trash about other frost mages letting their tanks down by not CCing mobs. There's another clip where he says "I don't run until the tank is 💀. He says he has no mana, but he is staring at his mana gem and robes of the archmage. The other players made mistakes, but they were trying to support each other at least. Pirate was in a guild with these people and he treated them like NPCs. He wasted 60% of his mana bar, and put himself very low on mana, then blinks. Being out of mana isn't even an excuse, as rank 1 casts will still apply slow, and they take up less then 1% of mana, they're basically free to cast. He very likely could have protected the priest, and he definitely could have saved the druid, just by frost novaing them to keep them from reaching.

[@sacredsushi2709]

the first non-biased/insulting take I have seen.

[@Mohroka]

The shot caller screwed up big time, immediately started blaming others instead of doing anything actually useful. They all played bad, but its starts and ends with the leader of the group.

[@Mythix-net]

I feel similarly, when im tanking my goal is to make things go smooth, to have the run go well so nobody in my group experiences the drama, grief, or disaster that happened here. This was all preventable and their experience is full of lessons for all of us to put in a little extra effort on our hardcore runs. Saves alot of headache.

[@bitze865]

on the other side, if the shot caller (in that case just the loud mouthed rogue that said run because the communication was shit from all parts) changes the call you cant at the same time argue that "your just doing what your told" and then ignore if the call changes. he cherry picked this argument to justify the roach.

[@Mohroka]

@ When they rest of the party noticed he had roached, they should have said to themselves and each other, lets just bail, but they didn't. Running was ALWAYS an option, you get a few bad pulls, you retreat, its part of the game. The fact that no one is considering that speaks to how poorly the arguments are against the one person who decided to just bail. They could have reset, talked strategy so on and so forth, instead they thought they could handle something they couldn't, not because it isn't possible, but because the group cohesion was severely lacking. Which is an inherent problem with pug groups in general, If I saw the tank fuck up like that, and then the druid pull not one but two more groups and a boss. I would bail too.

[@Xershade]

@@bitze865 ​ No, when shot caller calls run, everyone runs. End of story. That's a call that isn't something you take back after calling it. It's an emergency level callout, when it's called it's called. Pull is done, everyone bails. It's an emergency level callout for a reason.

[@bitze865]

@Xershade this is completely false and debunked by everyone that ever reviewed this clip or played wow especially hardcore, unless in extremely rare scenarios where it is stated run means "tactical retreat" it means supporting each other to try and keep casualties to a minimum, it means cc what is to cc, heal the tank to keep him alive taking what isn't ccable and only run if everyone can follow. Second of all, imagine your in molten core and the cc warlock of a banished target does, you got told you could dps that fight because there were enough warlock and the raid leader says: hey xershade take over this target for banish... is your answer then "no you called that I can dps" and instead of switching blink out of the raid? Calls change all the time and if you only listen to certain ones, you're just cherry picking them as an excuse

[@Runningthesteadyrace]

It’s nice to hear someone have such a level headed response instead of just blindly dig piling on pirate just to hate. It’s unreal how out of control this has gotten and how many times the goal post has been moved in blame and it’s not because of this it’s because of that banter. At this point people up in arms have said they’re upset over several different things but at the end of the day they just wanted this guy tossed out it seems.

[@Mythix-net]

@@Runningthesteadyrace Yeah its not cool. If they were in his position they would be hoping for mercy and grace. Especially considering how far people are still taking it, time to relax and let things heal

[@kaliduncanel3356]

It's definitely because some people don't like pirate plenty of people have roached since onlyfangs started but, this is clearly because people don't like his attitude. The situation is just a good excuse

[@mvprime8]

@@kaliduncanel3356 it's a perfect point to bring up that there have been other "roaches", but none of them have gotten a response quite like this. Well as always, context is everything. AFAIK, the other "roaches" have been at lower levels, like 20-40, so while bad, it isn't as bad as letting other level 60's die. And usually, even when roaching, those other people have still done more than PS did in this situation. They still tried to help their group at least in some way. And the key part is the attitude towards the other people in your group/guild. Let's take the moonmoon situation for example. He escaped with the other mage, and he is immediately visibly embarrassed that he escaped and two players died. He is cringing at himself and the whole situation. Afterwards, the whole guild was memeing about it and making jokes about him roaching. He didn't lash out at his guildies for making fun of him. His own chat joined in on the roasting of him, and he let it happen and joked about it himself. He didn't respond in anger. He knew he fucked up and deserved the jokes, and said he would do better next time. Now contrast to PS: in the debrief he is the one blaming everyone else, like he is a teacher and they are his pupils, and he just left them to die because he didn't feel like helping (he has admitted to this). His ego and arrogance towards others is unsustainable in a guild setting. It's irrelevant to analyze who is at fault for the bad pull, everyone knows how it happened. Bad pulls happen all the time, then you have to deal with them. What doesn't happen all the time is a player like PirateSoftware treating his guild mates with the contempt that he did and just letting them die, then refusing to apologize or even feel bad for them.

[@Goldenjews1234]

@@Mythix-net As soon things started to crumble they could of regain control but like you say that they panic in moment as communication broken down. Isn't the blizzard slow tick still bug because I notice him use it for pre cast to get it but with max rank blizzard wasn't the best choice but with low r1 blizzard could of been spammed.

[@Valid_Viking]

The only 2 buttons the Rogue pushed was Sprint and blind. And he wasted the blind on the boss and not literally any other target. Your take has been the best so far, by far. Same as I would have commented on this as a vet of long time. I would have called out "CC targets!" and backed off, back pedal until we're safe to start dps again, such things. Having an experience shot-caller is important. And having someone that screams "Run Run Run!" is definitly a big no-no. No one should have listened to that shout or denied it as early as possible. And at the end of the day, its a game. Content creators fanning the flame to want drama to get easy views has blow this way out of proportion, and its very obvious and intentional. Thanks for the good take, been annoying to see all this drama in my recommended, but I'm thankful I found this video. o7

[@Kanif69]

Some major points that should be considered in Pirates defense 1. That boss, like most bosses, can't be cc'd, both slows and stuns/sheep 2. He did actually throw out 2 blizzards, though there probably was a more efficient option, but he did throw out 2 slows 3. The group kept doubling back or staying and fighting even if he did all he could idk how much would of been salavged if they kept fighting a losing fight, on top of pulling a third pack because they chose not to keep moving 4. This group prior was already having issues with this Dungeon, and the GM even made it very clear every person should be playing for themselves, and part of that is the guild was losing to many people in full group wipes and even had to push raiding back a month to recoupe At the end of the day the argument shouldnt be "who could of done what" its ehat was the goal in the first place. I think the group wanted to fight and maybe even salvage it while Pirate thought the goal was get tf out. They think he's in the wrong for not helping the fight, while he thinks there shouldn't have been a fight in the first place.

[@Mythix-net]

@@Kanif69 I like the details provided Kanif pretty factual response I like the context your providing alot, thank you

[@philpie2998]

this is true for a standard groups. Most groups don't have a mage with millions of followers based on talking down to other players and calling WoW easy. The way he cut and run is a very naked moment for him and it's hilarious. Obviously the tanks and druid scuffed the pulls. But if a scuffed pull in DM is enough to make Pirate run like a coward, who you must admit, boasts frequently. It's only going to get better when they get to a real boss fight.

[@MortyIsnotonline]

Funny part is yama is so inexperienced in wow and should never call anything. I think pirate was mad at them because they failed. A bit before and wanted to punish them for not listening to him. Also if so afraid of dying then don’t do group things in hc since shit happens

[@Mythix-net]

@@MortyIsnotonline seems like it haha

[@Xershade]

@@Mythix-net I don't play WoW but correct me if I'm wrong here but we have similar calls to run in ESO and FFXIV, anyhow the question: When run is called it means EVERYONE RUN OUT NOW right? Like "I pulled the fire alarm, we'll debate if there's a fire outside"?

[@MrJAbeln]

@@Xershade I've played WoW for 20 years and every organized dungeon/raid I was in, Run is the last resort call. It always meant to leave by any means necessary. On my pally I would bubble hearth. If they would have said kite back, or something else, the plan would have been obvious to all and not left up to an individual to determine what Run means. And it wasn't just a run call. The rogue called, run, run, run, run, run, run, run and then a second later the tank said, yeah, just run. The only thing I would have done different than Pirate would be I wouldn't have looked back.

[@cavalieroutdoors6036]

@@Xershade Given that this is Hardcore mode, meaning there is no resurrecting the downed characters? There seems to be a split of opinions. Some people seem to think it means run - while also doing your level best to make sure no one gets dropped along the way. Others seem to think at that point it was every man for himself. Ultimately you're not gonna get these two groups to be on the same page. From where I sit? They should've just ran, the decision to try and salvage that mess was probably the thing that got the healer downed. I think if they had just ran, maybe the tank lost his character but no one else. Emphasis on that maybe as the tank did make it out while the healer and druid did not. Mostly because of a trash pack that the druid accidentally pulled by jumping into aggro range. And I wouldn't have any sympathy if it was the tank on the altar because he was the one who should've been in control of that whole affair and let it go to pot, as Mythix described in the video.

[@dooflegoof]

Definitely, but I don't think it's "I wanna punish them" but more like "Yeah, be a smartass let's see how it goes" kinda feeling I got that feeling a lot when playing games with people that have that Yamato guy's vibe act smart, good for nothing except blaming others and ruins the vibe, I just go non-verbal and let them face the consequences

[@Oumegi]

Thank you for this response. As a healer main, the reaction to this entire situation honestly kind of surprised me. Seeing the bad tank calls - wrong pull timing, wrong type of pull, lack of pack movement. Then seeing the druid butt pull extra packs TWICE, rogue doing nothing just screaming and panicking the entire time ... and pirate REACTING to all of it, the way he reacted. His fault is minor, like seriously. Even if I was in there, and died because he ran, I'd be like "Sigh man, you could have like ... done something, but I get it, this was a mess." I also think that most of the group was ok with the outcome, but the rogue escalated the whole thing into a whole new level. He went into every streamers chat, that was reacting to it, and started lying about pirate not admitting faul (Pirate admitted they all made mistakes, it's clipped). He pulled in the guild leader and cried, while embelishing his role in all of this ("I saved the tank single handedly"). He pulled in some of the world best mage players (world first holders) to tell Pirate what he should have done (absolutely ridiculous lol). The rogue honestly, should have gotten gkicked as well, as a condition for gkicking Pirate - "If he goes, you go too". Imagine having a friend like that IRL. Edit : Oh, and I don't even like Pirate, I think his takes on gaming industry are sometimes questionable at best. Which is btw what I think drives a lot of the negative reactions, people openly admit that they hated him before, and this just confirmed their bias, so ...

[@lordteensie6156]

If this was my guild I definitely would have kicked Yama too, I agree it's insane he's still in the guild

[@Mythix-net]

@ I dont think either one should be kicked they clearly need some help and guidance. This would have been a great opportunity for guild lead to personally start working with and training the two individuals in the clip. I don't think they should be outcasted I think we should give them some opportunities to learn to play more as a team.

[@Oumegi]

@ Well, I didn't necesarily mean kick both, perhaps I should have worded it differently. What I meant is that if Yamato insisted on gkicking pirate, it should have been presented to him that that it only happens if he goes too. He asked for shared responsibility > he should have it. I think his behaviour was extremely childish the entire time, and so he should be treated as such.

[@lordteensie6156]

@@Oumegi that's fair, I misspoke a little, personally I would have kicked Yama regardless but maybe I'm too harsh, definitely both or neither tho.

[@Dragonited]

The whole almost everyone against Pirate here is ridiculous. The fact that he get doxxed and deaththreats over a game is insane.

[@Mythix-net]

@@Dragonited Agreed, I think he needed guidance here. This was an opportunity to help everyone improve and instead they booted him and farmed him for content

[@JohnSmith-nr3sr]

The real crime is that Druid jumping into another pack that got the priest killed. Pirate roached and the rogue didn’t do anything but jump like an idiot.

[@Mythix-net]

Yamdef was definitely getting on my nerves as well in the video. Running around doing 0 damage, 0 cripples, 0 gouges, 0 cheap shots, kidneys just running his mouth and interrupting comms causing chaos the entire time haha.

[@JohnSmith-nr3sr]

@ on top of that he was the first one to flame on Pirate after the whole debacle. Pirate took it the wrong way and reacted at him. Which all snowballed into people typing death threats and seating attempts. Toxic community. Great analysis tho. I’ve tanked since 2005 and I’ve done more Dire maul runs than anyone back in the day farming for Forors compendium. As soon I saw them running through the middle on a tribute run I was like…they went the wrong way and this run is about to be scuffed (pirate did say they failed it one time and it was a redo). What a mess

[@anotherhuman21]

honestly they all paniced and roached no one did shit besides the priest. they used maybe half their toolkit. sad situation stakes were high i guess.

[@yuugur666]

​@@JohnSmith-nr3sryeah. When you're being given full blame in the moment, BEFORE THE INSTANCE IS EVEN CLOSED, most people would react the same way thor did. It was obvious that Yam was just being inflammatory, and pirate wasn't gonna deal with it. Everybody's all "oh everybody took responsibility for their actions except pirate" yeah, sure, later. Not immediately. Immediately, all blame went to Thor. It's all "oh, yam's a noob" Yeah, but the same exact issues people have against pirate (the fact that the shit that could have saved the players is mage 101 type shit) ITS THE SAME SHIT FOR YAM, HES FUCKING MAX LEVEL IN HC, HE KNOWS HOW HIS SKILLS WORK, MAYBE NOT ENOUGH TO USE THEM TO THEIR BEST, BUT ENOUGH TO USE THEM FUCKING AT ALL AT LEAST.

[@kissme1518]

Druid pulled the group behind the caster ogre and then another one down the ramp. He has no spatial awreness. He was a big contributor for their wipe. Sara healed the druid and got heal aggro from the new group.

[@keleitas150]

100% agree. Pirate could have done better? sure. Even though he tried to slow the enemies down, but probably panicked after seeing immune from the boss. but also the rogue didn't do basically anything beside wasting blind on the boss. no evasion, no vanish, no crippling poison, no kidney shot. just a few swings here and there. the druid dashed through the mobs and while i'm not 100% sure i think he was probably the one who asspulled first (though it wouldn't matter probably since the boss was gonna walk that way) the tank as you said facepulled. The only error the priest made is following the call of the rogue. also i'm really buffled to see HC players skip packs tbh. that was the first great mistake of the run.

[@Mythix-net]

I feel the same way I was just saying similar things with someone yeah 100%.

[@kissme1518]

Yes in any mage fashion that has played one, you see immune you run and make as much distance as possible because you will get two shotted.

[@TheMadwizz]

I have seen a few videos now of peoples option on this event. Your is the shortest and the most fair one. Well done!

[@Mythix-net]

@@TheMadwizz thank you! Appreciate the feedback.

[@halcyonglaze1614]

THANK YOU. Finally a warrior like myself calling out the tank. To me, I feel the exact same way, my job as the tank is to control the flow of the fights and to prevent dumb dps from doing dumb dps things. The pull was incredibly high risk for how it was pulled, nothing was debuffed, nothing was controlled, he allowed a second pack to pull and EVERYTHING that happened because of that is the tank's fault. Worse, the room was not safe to back into when the second pack is pulled. Tanks need to be on a higher level than dps and healers; we can always control this, we could have controlled pulling the second pack, we could have controlled having a safe area to pull back into, the tank is entirely at fault here. Yes, the rogue and the mage messed up too, but if I had been there as the tank, they would never have even had an opportunity to make those mistakes because I would not have made the massive mistakes this tank did. Like you said, slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

[@cavalieroutdoors6036]

Yeah, I agree. I didn't start tanking until Wrath - but the premise is the same up through BFA. As the tank I control what is pulled, where I pull it, and how safe the area is that we're coming from based on my decisions. If I were the tank, the mobs the druid backed into would've been cleared. The mobs in that room the boss was in would've been cleared. There would be *zero* face pulling unless I was absolutely certain it was safe to do so. So the path behind would've been clear, and the boss pulled far enough away from the extra pack they couldn't have aggro'd.

[@halcyonglaze1614]

@@cavalieroutdoors6036 Exactly. It's my job to protect my crew and that means a lot more than just holding aggro.

[@slashangryface]

Yes and plz pull back. As a rogue player its super annoying to not be able to stand behind the target cos we simply are to close to other mobs. Just move ?

[@Mythix-net]

True yes, its as easy as ABC A - Always B - Pull C - Back Lol

[@justanotherchannel9250]

Finally a reasonable take on what happened. Like I've been saying, this is like 90% on Ozy, but no one wants to point that out or talk about that. Good analysis of it.

[@fateweaver9844]

He admitted he fucked up. And again. Who. Cares? Last time I checked it's the TANK and HEALER who are responsible for keeping the party alive. Not dps. I get that it's a team effort and maybe PS could have laid down a blizzard for a slow but it wouldn't have done a shit ton of good except to maybe say "hey guildies, I helped but we died anyway". The group as a whole fucked up in skipping a pack. The ONLY time you should skip packs is during a speed run and only in multi life mode. Skipping packs in HC is no-life energy and that's why HC players end up back at level 1. It's insane to me the parasocial relationship people seem to have with WoW streamers. Definite virgin energy ​@@PaulSmith-fd2gy

[@Johni_martini]

For the most it isnt about whos fault it was. Ozy allready said that his pull was dogshit. Most people are upset how Pirat did just run away while he could do more. But they dont understand that it was a group fail. They just want to blame Pirat, just like little kids. You could also blame yamato for not distract the boss. That would have give them 10 seconds to move the adds furhter away It was a group fail, just forgett it already.

[@Mythix-net]

@@Johni_martini Yeah definitely man, there are some responses out there that are breaking my heart to see. The level of hatred and the depths over something that wont matter in 5 minutes is just... So many people are hurting so deeply and you can tell when they lash out at something meaningless.

[@musicaddicted777]

ozy didnt lie his way out of it, nor was it failure in regards to character, this is the greatest fault a person can have and no one actually gives a shit about the specifics of the mistake that lead to the pull because its self evident, its how it was dealt with that was polemic and out of order, pirate wasnt oom he made himself oom, he wasnt even in danger he was basically one foot out of the dungeon, he made excuses for himself and started arguing as people were dying

[@Selendeki]

I actually think the biggest problem is Yamato making the call to run when the situation was totally manageable. If he had kept his mouth shut they would have just killed the Mage-Lord and the dogs and everything would have worked out. On the back end of this, Pirate seemed to have contempt for his guildies and just couldn't care enough to even try to help them escape. I think you're being deliberately dense if you can't see why people were outraged at his gameplay but also attitude.

[@malevanor]

Looks like there were plenty of fails for everyone, starting with not clearing patrols. Best analysis I've seen so far, you get a sub for it.

[@Mythix-net]

@@malevanor I appreciate it Malevanor

[@jeremymorse43]

This and Grubby are the only responses that take an adult approach. Facts matter.

[@Mythix-net]

@@jeremymorse43 thanks Jeremy hopefully with enough effort we can make the situation better for everyone instead of hate farming

[@jeremymorse43]

@Mythix-net You're talking about changing the minds of the internet in a collective manner? I praise your optimism sir

[@snatchadams5567]

best take yet.

[@Mythix-net]

Thank you I appreciate it

[@pokiblue5870]

The group had bad vibe too from the first attempt with same group. I think pirate was done with this group and the rogue that just keeps yelling and arguing during combat…instead of calmly ask for pirate a rank 1 blizzard. Im 200% sure that pirate would have used a rank 1 blizzard if rogue communicated nicely.

[@Mythix-net]

I think this is pretty much summing up what Grubby said today, definitely. Comms were chaos for sure.

[@bitze865]

and honestly, if pirate said it like that this whole thing wouldnt have exploded like that, it was his attitude afterwards what made people mad, his double, triple and quadrupling down on "i did nothing wrong, there was nothing i could do, i had no mana and you deserved to die" it wasnt the gameplay people really critizise or the roaching, that happens a lot...just another thursday...it was his smug ego about it.

[@GeoDeathDeathGeo]

@@bitze865 When you feel like your being attacked or backed into a corner, your gonna either plant your feet or cave to the pressure. He had to make responses because of all the crazies come to dogpile on him, its understandable. Whats not is how everyone treated him like a lolcow for content as he self destructed with the exception of Tyler1 actually tried to squash everything with Pirate until Yamato came in and wanted his ego to do the talking because he couldn't except that Tyler was handling it his own way he wanted to force Pirate to say and do what he wanted, so you can see how that went Pirate bailed on the call so the Drama continued. Then all of a sudden the streamers had something to say about Pirate once he was kicked, none of the people shitting on him tried to resolve this but got offended when he got to be to much of an issue for them. But hey Savix got a good pat on the back for his tweet vs refusing to actually talk to Pirate because he felt it wasn't his place to yet felt it was his place to make a tweet about it.

[@F4R207]

@@bitze865 Dude, it wouldn't have mattered, Yamjato was on the attack calling for Pirate to be punished and Pirate literally did say he played it bad when talking to Tyler, which Tyler pointed out to Yamato but Yamato wouldn't have it and was pushing for punishment when he, Yamato, himself had every ability off cooldown, had no combo points, and was totally safe with both sprint and sneak (title?) ability available, fucking any possibility of good vibes andbanding together with his run run run run and toxic projection guilt blaming. PIrate did admit, it didn't matter, people wanted to hate, streamers wanted to hate, OF content creators wanted to hate, and they sure hated, to the point of doxxing and death threats which some in OF explicitly said was "justified", yeah, such a nice group of guildies.

[@Oneofthecoments]

100% This, they all messed up bad on that pull and then turned around and tried to putt all of the blame on Pirate. That was some really bad tanking…

[@Mythix-net]

@@Oneofthecoments tank was definitely distracted or just not 100% in the moment

[@Fluvanna]

100% the Wars fault was my first thought too. Face pulls, doesnt move back. Pulls another pack, still doesnt move back. Boss pulls and NOW he starts to realize that maybe this was just a bad af pull.

[@goofverdinus165]

the pull was his fault for sure, mistakes happen. Letting them die however is 100% on the mage. Couldve saved them with 0 risk, anyone that ever played a mage knows this

[@Unf0rget]

Ozzy is a pretty terrible tank. He genuinely needs some guidance. That said, the drama kinda isn't about why the wipe started. Heck, its not even about how far a mage could have gone trying to save the party. It's that Pirate did not try, whatsoever, despite it being a rather light weight amount of mobs directly vulnerable to frost mage control. He had all of the slack to do any amount of help and chose 1 second of blizzard on top of the boss he endlessly reminds us can't be slowed. Then ditched. Hard. No staying in range to try something opportune. He was gone. And then rejected any attention on his roach behavior and paints anyone he talks to as angry or belligerent no matter how calmly they are speaking. The inciting incident doesn't even matter anymore because Pirate's responses are the fuel now. Every denial just makes it worse.

[@Eddneton94]

​@@goofverdinus165 the druid (hard but doable / high danger), the rogue (easylie doable with minute danger) and the mage (arguably easyest but also middling danger) all had the potential to salvage the runout as a runout without trying to fight the fucking boss that you want alive anyway

[@jaykay9783]

@@goofverdinus165 Tihs is just useless, pirate put a blizzzard down on ozy to give him the chance to create a gap, what does he do, turns his back on the boss and gets dazed. Then when the adds catch up he stops moving instead of pushing ahead to a safer space. He almost pulled the patrol in between the ramps when he stopped running. If he just back pedalled around the corner and the druid didn't spaz out and pulled that 3rd pack they had plenty of space where pirate was waiting for them to deal with it. 3 people fucking up and then expecting the mage to solve the shit they created is just incompetence. It's just fucked up the priest had to pay the price for the tank, druid and rogue's fuck ups.

[@anotherhuman21]

@@goofverdinus165 ive mained mage and prot pal/warrior for a while now i can clearly say the mage did not want to help the meele, he tried to slow the boss so it wouldnt get on the healer thats why he used max rank blizz. he saw healer was right next to him then kept going. Also as a tank first 1-2 maybe 3 mistakes could happen but as soon as the tank heard run he didnt even try to get aggro on the mobs that ran right past him "also the boss" straight to hmm i wonder who pulls aggro if no one hits it.... then calls for healer to run back and heal him, then says to kill the hyenas? the list goes on, i cant speak much about the others but everyone could have played "better". at the end of the day its a game, they chose to play hardcore and shit happens.

[@Dino-dc7wb]

Finally a video that is not focused on Thor and how he did, but more on general situation and perspective! For someone who played a little WoW and never got that high - I understand situation better and also know tank perspective with a little of other characters! Thank you!

[@Mythix-net]

@@Dino-dc7wb thanks Dino I appreciate the positive impact your bringing here!

[@SanjuroSan]

Finally, the analysis I've been waiting for. I'm a veteran, all the vanilla stuff all the way through wraith, tanked and healed. Besides clearing the side pulls i would have had the team wait in the center circle, range pulled, and los behind the pillar. Smooth and clean.

[@Sioliar]

I'd be lazy and just los about 1/3 screen to the side above stairs. Since this shitshow started, as soon as I seen the tank, a question popped in my mind. Did he got boosted to 60? No way did he get this far, got all the gear and didn't learn any pulling tech.

[@Lolraulphrofl64]

@@Sioliar bro me and my buds had this exact same discussion, dude got hard carried to 60, if you tank like this you would’ve got your group wiped in deadmines 😂 unless he played dps and this was his first dungeon tanking. Plus it’s a streamer guild, all these clowns were spoon fed. As ridiculous as the drama around this has gotten, im now in the camp of wouldve been hilarious if everyone died except the healer, the only player that didn’t deserve to die. RIP

[@Sioliar]

@ that'd explain it but deadmines... "shudders". I can see that. Tbh I remembered it to be easier in vanilla than classic. And yeah, the heal should've just run after seeing that kind of pull. Or at least try to stay ahead of the group. But when I saw the priest actually go back while the tank was already in his line of sight, it just got too painful to watch at this point.

[@Lolraulphrofl64]

@@Sioliar truly a jaw dropping view. Clearly they are all inexperienced, the second that tank had first group and didn’t start moving back I would’ve immediately told his ass to start moving. Upsets me to see no one control the situation and some league player with 1mo. on wow start yapping and making calls and chewing on his arm. Lot of “dire” hehe situations are salvageable… until group cohesion falls apart then everything is off the table. Lol

[@Sioliar]

@@Lolraulphrofl64 for sure!

[@Saintedlight]

Yeah The rogue could have done a lot more to help as well he even tried to blind the boss for some reason. I'm not saying Pirate was 100% right. but he do not deserve all the hate for nothing.

[@Mythix-net]

For sure

[@sifayun6336]

The chain of drama videos has eventually led me to this video. I wanted to share my feedback on the video itself, to Mythix. I've never played WoW. I'm too nervous to try to enter a community that has had 20 years of doing things, that I feel people would just assume I'm a troll for actually being new. You explained things in your video that I felt I could understand, such as "face pull," a term I'd never heard before, but then you went on to say to use a ranged weapon. Even if I never play WoW, tactics like this could be used in future, similar RPGs I might play. Thank you for taking the time to teach from experience.

[@Mythix-net]

@@sifayun6336 Thanks Sifayun I hope we do get to have you join us on TurtleWoW one of these days, its free to play if you wanted a low commitment way to try, there is less pressure on TurtleWoW because its constantly expanding and changing so even 20 year players are learning new things and I think that helps the atmosphere be more positive. Either way may your journey be great where you go. Thank you for the feedback I appreciate you.

[@Barugane]

Finally a take from someone who knows stuff. I have been mainhealing for the last 20 years and everything about this situation has been super hard to watch. DM, in hardcore, not clearing stuff in the first place? Im out, sorry, im not joining that group. And everyone here showed their inexperience, and thats no criticism, its just fact. Also, all the hate going out to the streamers is super unhinged.

[@Mythix-net]

@@Barugane Appreciate this response Grissly, you sound like you have a life and experiences outside the internet. Very refreshing to hear thank you

[@Barugane]

@@Mythix-net thanks for the kind words!

[@jandnorton]

Thank you! All these non-Wow ppl just do not understand what they are watching and are just going with whoever is shouting the loudest.

[@lonewanderer9113]

RUN AWAY............nah man this is salvageable *dude next to him dies*

[@Mythix-net]

Tis but a flesh wound

[@mugzy81]

One of the best takes ever on this sad situation. Great job!

[@Mythix-net]

@@mugzy81 thank you Mugzy!

[@gndtchoopz7246]

"you've already pulled the whole damn instance anyway" *WHEEEEZZZZEEEE* was my favorite part. :D

[@Mythix-net]

@@gndtchoopz7246 hahaha

[@iTzDeyo]

As a Jock/nerd I can tell you there is nothing worse and more obnoxious than a NERD that's also a bully, selfish, and has a god complex. I'd rather deal with a jock bully than a nerd bully.. ANYDAY!

[@Mythix-net]

Jock / Nerd is a good breed man. Most of the Jock / Nerds ive played with have held incredibly healthy mindsets and usually are fantastic team players because they played in football or baseball on a team etc. Thats awesome man, its great to have hobbies and motivators outside of gaming.

[@obsideondemon2977]

Thank you sir for giving an educated, and experienced opinion on the matter. I love how no one talked about the tank making a pantheon of amateur hour mistakes while tanking and the rogue literally doing 37 dmg, no poisons on his blades and adding nothing to the pull except for bad calls as he panicked. Who calls for a run then 5 seconds later second guesses himself and then blames the guy who listened to the call. The tank is 50% blame for his shit poor tanking, and the rogue is the other 50% for his amateur calls and second guessing bullshit.

[@Mythix-net]

@@obsideondemon2977 thanks obsideon appreciate it

[@MsTake82]

Total side note: This is currently my favourite drama... I find myself invested, only because it is all so meaningless. In the whole scope of everything, its just a video game and in a week, it will not even be a thing anymore. The fact that ANYONE is being harrassed about it is absolutely crazy!! People need to keep things in perspective.

[@Mythix-net]

100%

[@TheSortingHelmet]

Finally a sensible take on this whole drama. Sir you earned my like.

[@Mythix-net]

@@TheSortingHelmet thank you 🙏 hoping with enough effort we can make a positive impact

[@alexrog6868]

pirate did use CC, you don't see it from ozzy's perspective but he uses blizzard specked for slow, and realizes the boss is immune to CC when it doesn't work. he's also the guilds primary enchanter, and has all their enchanting supplies. furthermore he was following a call to run from the shot caller, meaning he blinked, used CC while running, and kept going under the assumption that they were running. he then stopped and when he saw that the situation couldn't be salvaged he kept running. i really recommend going and watching his perspective if you can.

[@Mythix-net]

@@alexrog6868 His perspective has a couple of things going and here are some gameplay changes he can work on namely, he should have been paying attention to the adds not the boss here to protect the group. > Rank 1 Blizzard and Frost Nova to reduce mana costs > All Mana gems of various ranks could be utilitized > Robes of the Archmage can be utilized > Sheep can be utilized > Cone of Cold Rank 1 can be utilized - Blinking and Popping shield when you do not have primary threat and interrupting your MP5 is not recommended - Casting Max Rank Blizzard and then interrupting the cast is not recommended All that being said its just a game and even if he could have CC’d better its a live and learn situation I dont think it warrants doxxing/swatting or drama, these things arent worth it and anger is a hot coal in the hands that burns the one who holds it.

[@alexrog6868]

@Mythix-net fair enough. Thanks for the response, and I appreciate your take on the matter.

[@kissme1518]

I noticed Ozy didn't have aggro on the boss, the boss was heading straight towards the others, Pirate used blizzard then panicked when he realized the boss is immune and he's coming towards him (probably not but not on the tank). With any clothie paper armored mage instinct he runs as fast as he can making as much distance as he can. And of course this is from someone not in the heat of the moment he could have at least waited the 5 second mana rule and waiting for some mana to come back up, run up there and lay down one frost nova at the risk of pulling boss on hiimself. About two hits from the boss could finish him off with no mana and being a mage. He put the mana shield on because he was thinking about helping but have to wait for his mana to recharge.

[@AmongRevenants]

Sudden shock can strike anyone and it can apply tunnel vision. It's sometimes why experienced pilots crash planes. But if everyone knew the safe spots to jump in DM. There might of been a way to slow the threat down while the group recovered from the shock.

[@Mythix-net]

Yeah totally, its always a good idea to discuss exit plans before they happen because when things hit the fan and panic or adrenaline sets in you wont be able to think clearly. Put the extra brainpower and planning in before the adrenaline hits.

[@AmongRevenants]

Great take. And I've seen mages solo DM. Hunter's as well. Hardcore is also parkour. If possible take advantage of the terrain.

[@krelekari]

That tunnel vision is why I feel like the pivotal moment was the accusatory tone seeing him walk away as commanded. It both forced both the audience and thor to lock in on defense in a tense situation because deeper though could result in more deadly misplays. That includes false confidence that was already present when everyone waited about 10s instead of doing what you can and ensuring every second counts. That forced the twitch viewers to already have someone to blame and thor to lock up, resulting in the response everyone was so pissed at.

[@confusedashell020]

That is exactly what people playing hardcore should do, but for content farming it probably helps to have some risky behavior.

[@AmongRevenants]

@@confusedashell020 Fast, dangerous pulls is all for the view counts.

[@MadMattInc1]

Honestly was my first thought too when I saw this going down. "I've played MMOs for years. Why aren't they pulling back further? I'm sure the aggro for getting a small amount of attention is more then 5 feet. Why are they sitting on top of the spot they aggroed them at?"

[@rains00the]

I don't think anyone is arguing it's the mage's fault, they're just arguing he could've done more (with close to no risk), and he's acting like he couldn't have.

[@Mythix-net]

@@rains00the this is a good summary, yeah. I just feel like its water under the bridge. As a tank if you lead your people right they never would have got to this point or be put in this position. Definitely a good learning experience for everyone involved

[@snakebebop]

​@@Mythix-net well yeah obviously if you never make a bad pull then you'll never be in these situations. The issue is that piRAT refuses to acknowledge his mistakes.

[@mikeso2084]

@@Mythix-net Learning experience? Have you seen the clips from before this when he's talking about what he'd do in basically this exact situation? It's fuken hilarious!

[@jaykay9783]

@@mikeso2084 Yes it's a learning experience. They probably didn't play together much before this, trust in everyones capabilities wasn't there yet. i've seen what pirate said in the meeting before that, it takes time to have that confidence in the other players in the group. Doesn't make what he said less valid. Would you risk hundreds of hours of game time in this situation with a pug? when shit went this badly.

[@Nightstalker314]

@@mikeso2084 The very same day he did another tribute run, no fuck ups there.

[@martinmcbride4530]

This will go down as a catalyst people needed to go on a hate crusade on Pirate, it's events like this that makes me disappointed in the gaming community as a whole, these things are all too common.

[@Golikol369258]

all they had to do was pop retalliation or shield wall mass taunt and kill those mobs... they just overcomplicated their stuff to the utmost level. pirate could have used r1 frost nova and blizz to kite all the cc-able mobs and as well. yes there were mistakes everywhere. the only dude playing proper is actualy the priest.

[@Mythix-net]

@@Golikol369258 The priest was great, this is why you dont catch me doing hardcore though haha Sara deserved better

[@m.s.3121]

this was the best analyze of the situation I have seen so far and yes, everyone made big mistakes except the healer, so its even more sad that healer died for that BS, they took shortcuts and rushed the boss and it backfired. I played only WoW during Burning Crusade but you mentioned it, where is the damn marker, people yelled at me back than if there was not clear marked what to sheep and stun.

[@Mythix-net]

@@m.s.3121 haha thank you, yeah poor Sara they played awesome

[@ramongoroth]

Thank you for your take. I appreciate your analytical an unbiased views

[@Mythix-net]

@@ramongoroth thank you, hopefully with enough effort this can have a positive impact

[@BearGodX]

The haters are just jealous how stoic Pirate is, he handled it perfectly. its not his job to save a group which is sabotaging themselves he doesnt owe anyone an apology. There were a million things Yamato and Ozzy even the others couldve done but didnt. People just dont like Pirates personality and wanted to just dog pile him

[@Mythix-net]

@@BearGodX exactly, Dogpiling is just people trying to group up on a soft target because its socially acceptable to hate them and act like garbage, definitely overblown reactions im disappointed to see so many.

[@justin5002]

“It’s only game, why you have to be mad” is the take I got from all of it😂. Good video!

[@Mythix-net]

@@justin5002 😂 lol

[@ricksonsa770]

man they talk shit about his half second blizzard but the tank didnt have that aggro on the boss he was dazed and very far away from it actually

[@Mythix-net]

For sure, I think this whole situation could have been prevented with more care from the tank.

[@gfpunto]

Dude. Best take i've seen so far. o7

[@Mythix-net]

@@gfpunto thanks Gfpunto appreciate it

[@modtyrant1784]

As someone with 5000 hours in guild wars, i really appreciate the comment about never face pulling. You're just asking to get mobbed by every enemy and patrol in the map.

[@Mythix-net]

haha its true man the mobs know. If you face pull they shout to all their buddies on the map and stuff like "Hey this guy doesnt know, lets teach him a lesson"

[@modtyrant1784]

@@Mythix-net Haha exactly!

[@samdoyle1497]

First completely impartial review ive seen!

[@Mythix-net]

@@samdoyle1497 thank you Samdoyle I am hoping to make a positive impact

[@nathanscarlett4772]

This is the best explanation of everything that went wrong. Thank you!

[@Mythix-net]

Thank you Nathan I appreciate it!

[@Big.Stepper.]

Very knowledgeable assessment

[@Mythix-net]

@@Big.Stepper. thank you Big Stepper

[@LAK9]

I’m just a passerby. And this is the best assessment of the situation I’ve heard. I hate how the loudest voices warp a narrative. Hope this video gains traction

[@Mythix-net]

Thank you, with enough effort I am hoping a positive impact can be made as well.

[@rhodrijones8267]

Cheers for this insight, I'll probably pass this video on if this particular topic comes up in conversation in the future

[@Mythix-net]

@@rhodrijones8267 Thank you Rhodri hoping to have a positive impact.

[@serrethindustries9468]

I don't play WoW. I don't follow Pirate Software. I don't know who any of these people are, but now I'm an expert in all of these things. Informative video is best.

[@Mythix-net]

@@serrethindustries9468 excellent, thank you Serreth

[@Wrathlon]

Pirate was scapegoated hard because they were salty he survived and didnt go down with their fail train.

[@alimzhanomirzhanov4411]

One thing none has mention before is that boss was on mage(you can see it when mage dodges his charge with blink) so the only way piratesoftware could save them is to use nova or blizzard in the first 1-2 sec after the ninja pool but considering bad calls and so on you can't really blame him for delayed reaction

[@Mythix-net]

@@alimzhanomirzhanov4411 Good insight on the additional charge mechanic cautions being taken

[@Nightstalker314]

The entire route was cursed. They skipped 2 crucial patrols that might have killed them on the way out if the timings were off. In addition they are always close to adding more trash packs from the top area in each corner. And if they decide to fight the boss there is the risk that he will call trash groups at low HP which are all around them.

[@Mythix-net]

Haha cursed is an appropriate word for their run yeah

[@avalonvt]

There's an old saying in MMOs if the tank dies it's the DPS fault, if a DPS dies it's the tank's fault, and if the healer dies everyone's already dead. Glad to know this applies here. From what I've seen of Pirate Software's perspective of the situation I kind of got the feeling that everyone at least made one mistake in that pull. I couldn't see much because he was off in the sticks being a ranged fighter. But yeah this is classic MMO player drama. The group will fall apart, Thor will be the butt of a few jokes in the group then they'll forget about each other like they never met. This is just how the world of hardcore clear oriented content goes. Tempers flare in the heat of the moment and someone says something they might regret later. It happens.

[@Schamisheep]

As a long time tank (when I still played) I completely agree with the analysis. The whole group made a terrible amount of mistakes leading to this disaster (especially the tank). It literally went from mistake to bad to terrible to horrible in a short time because of this. They basically pulled 3 groups and a boss accidentally which is absolutely crazy for a lvl 60 instance on hardcore. While the mage could possibly have changed something I think it's unfair to blame it on him (as many do). Personally if I played hardcore and my group would skip a potentially dangerous group I would instantly leave. Thats probably pirates worst mistake here, as I heard there was already a bit drama/disagreements before this accident. If you play hardcore and people do sketchy stuff and don't want to listen just leave. It's not worth the stress..

[@Mythix-net]

@@Schamisheep yeah for sure

[@deSolAxe]

I played WoW just for a bit and as a shammy, so I can only say my general observations... I didn't really study it closely, but I think that when Pirate was waiting in front of the door and checking where everybody is, he turned the cam too soon and didn't see the train of adds, so he might have even assumed that they'll make it. But to be fair, the communication in general seemed abyssmal. If you're oom say it, if you're pulling a boss, check with everybody to see who needs to rebuff and prepare. All-around it didn't seem like a guild party run, I've had better coordination with strangers on DF than this.

[@Mythix-net]

@@deSolAxe Definitely man communication was crazy

[@nerdobject5351]

I like your points about taking the time to clearing other mobs for space. Played tank 20 years ago and I would do this when the stakes were even lower. Mainly because a wipe easily would frustrate people and they would leave the group. It easier to listen to them gripe than to refill the group. Good takes.

[@Mythix-net]

@@nerdobject5351 Very true, yeah and in a game like this reputation can be important to uphold. Players wouldn’t want to regroup with a tank if they had negative emotions about them or saw them as bad. Definitely, going the extra mile is always worth it

[@yuugur666]

Fwiw, the druid pulled basically every extra pack

[@Mythix-net]

@@yuugur666 yeah haha true

[@grom4818]

case of everyone expecting the smart person in the room to perform miracles to save their garbage decisions, i wouldn't blame him if he was even conscious of the ability to get mana back. it's a question of deserving.

[@Mythix-net]

@@grom4818 could definitely be a driving factor that was unsaid from the mages perspective

[@quinncharleshatton]

Really believe piratesoftware just checked out when this all happened

[@Mythix-net]

I think so too Quinn

[@iamthebubblelady]

It was a shit show and because he is vocal about people and their bad plays he got flamed. Thanks for the tank POV breakdown.

[@Mythix-net]

@@iamthebubblelady Yeah, for sure. Cant believe how much it escalated but yeah I can see how it started with Pirate.

[@tarelsun4025]

So the Rogue could have: 1. Kicked the Mage that Social aggroed the Boss to delay the inevitable 2. He could have built Combopoints to stun the Boss to save his tank, what could have saved the Healer because the Healer could have been running (and yes the Boss ist stunnable, thats why Warstomp from the Druid worked) 3. He could have built Combopoints and stun the Mage that aggroed on the ramp by the druid to save the druid He did none of this and blamed the Mage. He even went so far to snitch on the Mage by their Guild Leader What an excuse for a human being. If you kick the Mage, you also have to kick the Rogue for playing like a Noob.

[@fetzie23]

Nah the mage should have counterspelled the caster. The rogue would have risked body-pulling the pack at the bottom of the ramp with how close they are. Or the tank just LoS pulls it from the start and it’s a non-issue.

[@Tentacle_NIL]

Thanks for this. Anyone in the future look up loltyler1's 1st Dire Maul run. Yamdef should have no excuse here. He has already gone through here and was shown the path and was told everything he needed to know but basically yawned at it and forgot it. He did not forget the damage though or the side swipe the Ogres do to him. He also knows that loltyler1 uses a crossbow to pull in the run. So, he helped the Tank fail. The guy panics the moment he doesn't have a barrier on him and even more when he is at 75%-50% health Which is why he started calling for run the moment he saw that and sticking out his tongue and biting his him like an idiot if you watch his POV. He's the 1st one to say something when someone else isn't doing something yet his usual DPS in his 1st run is nowhere to be seen here. Yamdef or Yamato functions better when he's not the leader and should not have been allowed to give orders. Heck the party functions way better when they don't listen to him and know what to do. This wasn't even the full dungeon run. Everyone would be dead if it got past this point guaranteed.

[@SkoomaFish]

My opinion as a *Raid/Guild/RBG leader/callout* since release: These aren't _bad players,_ it was just a _bad pull and bad awareness._ *This has happened anyone who's ever run a dungeon in WoW.* Panic, confusion, bad callouts, bad positioning.. any _one_ of those is all it takes, and here all of em happened at once. We've wiped dozens of times working a Raid (esp vanilla), or pushing RBG rating.. even at high-level play, it's very easy to make stupid mistakes. Look at any sport, these things happen. *What was Pirate sposed to do?* He already threw some blizzards down to CC at range for larger, more sustained area and slow (he mentioned his Blizzard Slow spec). Getting in the middle of the pack and drop _Ice Nova,_ maybe root a couple or slow for 0.5 seconds (does not slow Boss), _pulling aggro at melee range_ and dying along with them? People that are angry have never played or only casually. *_joj_* my mains: Mage - Rogue - Rdrood - ProtWar

[@Mythix-net]

@@SkoomaFish Yeah its definitely a teachable moment and any value that could have been learned of the setbacks that team experienced were lost when they started attacking an exiling each other.

[@failswithtails]

The take I heard from DisguisedToast is that basically everyone had misplays, *maybe* short of the healer. I don't have WoW experience, but I've played other games (including other MMOs), and I'm inclined to believe no single one person is at fault. 1. Don't take crazy shortcuts unless you accept the heightened risks, and in hardcore, that risk includes permadeath. Like you said, slow is smooth, and smooth is fast, and that matches my lived experience in gaming, paid work, volunteer work, and hobbies. 2. Don't face-check if you don't have to. Don't face-pull if you don't have to. That's asking for trouble. 3. Know your kit. That also encompasses point 2, but know your pull options. Know your debuff and buff cooldowns and ranges. Know your DPS options. Know your CCs, cooldowns, durations, and mana costs. Maybe don't channel blizzard(?) if there are other lower cost CCs available. Probably don't channel anything (regardless of your class or the ability) if it's going to need to be interrupted shortly after - it certainly doesn't sound cost efficient unless the effect just has immensely high payoff. 4. I don't know the full context of the calls being made, but once you start retreating, there never should be a call to "turn around" the fight. Focus on whatever it takes to get people out and safe, pull back, regroup, and start again. 5. Maybe don't go into a group activity requiring intense teamwork and coordination with high stakes, with pre-existing tensions among the group.

[@Mythix-net]

@@failswithtails Sounds like you pretty much understand the gist of the situation for sure. I think they were all probably tired and distracted and made some pretty big missteps

[@_Zir]

'' run means run, im runnning out '' imagine if everyone used that logic.... EVERY SINGLE TANK WOULD BE DEAD.... if this guy was the healer... would he be running out as like this? not healing?..... crazy to think about....

[@arthurgrey8967]

The priest was the healer, he listened to the low IQ rogue and tank, and now he's releveling another toon days before raid.

[@Mythix-net]

@@arthurgrey8967 also true yeah the old saying is (no good deed goes unpunished) the priest deserved better than this for sure they were great

[@arthurgrey8967]

@@Mythix-net And the saddest thing is it was pointless. Unfortunately there was no one good enough in the group to challenge the ridiculous calls and insist they continue running out. Or prevent the many earlier errors that led up to it for that matter. There is only so much a group can expect from a player on the team. I'll stay with a group thats wiping in retail, especially if it involves someone elses key, where the worst outcome is losing some gold or time. That seems fair to me. But not going to lose my character, days before raid, being a good sport for idiots making stupid decisions. That isn't a reasonable expectation.

[@jaykay9783]

Why would it be crazy, as a tank you have the responsibilty of keeping your team out of train wrecks like this, this tank made soo many amateur mistakes. The priest paid for those mistakes.

[@Everdred]

This guy might have the best perspective of the whole situation I've ever seen please do me and everyone else a favor and upload your thoughts on the rogues perspective you might be surprised to see that he is 100% energy during the whole panic attack and I really would like to know what you have to say about that

[@Mythix-net]

@@Everdred haha it would probably drive me crazy, even when I was watching from the tanks POV it was driving me crazy

[@Everdred]

@Mythix-net it's so hard to find people who actually look at the rogues point of view because everyone's just dogpiling on pirate and I'm not here to just side with pirate or something I just as a rogue player can see with those rogue eyes

[@rapidtrap787]

@@Everdred don't want to call out quin but he watched rouge and said dud was doing great, looking for opportunities to go in XD, in reality he just jumped on rouges ship to shit on pirate, after all in this kind of drama you don't want to be on losing side of the argument only one who goes hard on rogue was asmon, and look where it got him to, half thinks he is delusional other half his rage baiting

[@Everdred]

@rapidtrap787 yeah I completely agree it is kind of a shame that we don't look at all point of view like it doesn't dispel what pirate did but at the same time we still can point at everyone individually

[@bighammer624]

As a former prot tank... im so glad we 100% on same page...

[@Kradily]

So just like asmon said, “ percentage wise you all fked up but who fked up the most?” 😂

[@Mythix-net]

@@Kradily the tank 50000%. The tank was having a rough night. His pulls were careless and his positioning on the pulls lead to this chaos

[@PROdotes]

As someone that used to be a guild MT, it hurts to see so many potential groups and patrols left alive... with no exit strategy if things go south... no place they can fall back to to handle a salvageable situation... But... as people are pointing out, what pirate doesn't understand is that most people aren't mad because "it's all his fault"... they are mad cause after 2 people died, he shows no regret and just goes "are you done talking? now go roll a mage"... and leaves the call... and keeps saying "everyone played badly" instead of "I'm sorry that I panicked and didn't do better"

[@Mythix-net]

@@PROdotes Yeah not a great response on his part, Im thinking it may have been a defensive response in the heat of it.

[@PROdotes]

@@Mythix-net Ye... as Grubby said... it seems to be a gut reaction of "I'm getting attacked, I have to defend"... I have it too at times... But when the heat dies down, in 10-20 minutes, I can usually go say "ok, I was wrong, sorry..."

[@kolrengenify]

@@PROdotes - It wasn't. Pirate has quadrupled down on every angle of this argument and still has not, to any degree (other than a small sentence in a Twitter post meant to deflect) shown any solidarity or appetite for taking even minimal accountability..

[@PROdotes]

@ I think he just doesn't understand that he just came out as very heartless and selfish... and by now he prolly thinks the damage is done and admiting it will just give people "more ammo"... but only pirate knows what pirate thinks... Only thing I'm sure of is... from his videos and commentary, his main line of thinking is "is there any risk for me"... and even if the risk is 1%, he will not risk it to save another person who might have a 50% risk of dying... and it seems that's what got him gkicked today...

[@kolrengenify]

@@PROdotes I think you're right. Empathy seems completely lost to him. He still has not mentioned Snupy or Sara in any way, but has made every single communication about him and his "victimhood". If he had simply owned up to his own shortcomings, this would've died down as quickly as it arose. But people do not like when you drone on about how much game-knowledge you have and how great of a mage-player you are, only to display the complete opposite and then take no blame whatsoever. Add to that a general way of communicating as if he's always better/smarter about any situation, even when people clearly more skilled are telling him otherwise, is just cringe. With that line of thinking its probably not a great fit to be in a guild in a game-mode all about overcoming odds collaboratively while only having one life. When you so clearly only care about yourself and your own achievements.

[@IFeastOnGlue]

I have never played this game so I have no idea what was going on. But this breakdown is really good and helped me understand

[@Mythix-net]

@@IFeastOnGlue Im glad it helped, Wow is really fun its my favorite RPG ever made because its easy to learn hard to master. This is the hardcore community where you only get one life which is why people are upset about it haha

[@Youseeinthisrn]

All i know for sure is Sara is an absolute goat staying focused and not having any hard feelings towards anyone. W Healer.

[@Mythix-net]

@@Youseeinthisrn true

[@DakotaHorton-g2m]

glad to know im not the only one thinking that while yeah pirate could have done better. the majority of the group had things they did wrong.

[@Mythix-net]

Absolutely.

[@352vagrant]

Maybe I just seen Pirate the way he is/was from the start, that's not a good or bad statement. So every time I hear people say he did or didn't take accountability or saved his own ass over doing something else i'm just like "why are you surprised?", again not good or bad. It's a lot like when the new guys in the Army would get mad the Marines stole their stuff "Yeah they do that, we had like a 3 hour power point on it and got issued locks specifically for that." When you're putting time, money, or your "life" on the line it's on you to do your due diligence and verify the people you're playing with are competent and someone you want to play with.

[@bmXadie]

Great perspective, enjoyed the video.

[@Mythix-net]

@@bmXadie Thank you Xadie, hope you have a great journey in life and in game if you play

[@thomaskopv2366]

How is it that only Pirate should apologize for his wrong doings? Everyone effected handled the situation terribly, but Pirate is the bad guy in this situation. I did not know the WoW community is this toxic. We certainly need more people like you that go into things level headed.

[@Mythix-net]

@@thomaskopv2366 Thanks Thomas, I just think its where we are as a society. Nobody seems to have a big picture perspective and they are stuck in their feelings about him because they here their streamer talk about him and instead of thinking for themselves they make someone elses opinion their own. I think attacking someone makes people who otherwise feel lost, feel like part of a group. Its gotten so out of hand though. It never should have gotten this far.

[@thomaskopv2366]

@@Mythix-net Very good point. Mob mentality certainly has rocketed especially on the internet.

[@518UN4]

The problem is that everyone else acknowledged that they didn't play optimally but pirate kept doubling down on doing everything right. The drama isn't about him playing bad. It's about him playing bad and saying he didn't.

[@jshadow62]

​@518UN4 he admitted fault. Whst do you mean

[@nicb5557]

​@@518UN4 He was going to say he was also at fault buy yamato kept talking over him so he does left

[@timo6647]

What I kinda hate the most about that situation is it kinda feels like a trap for pirate software because the call was run and in the middle of running away they say "yeah nah let's fight back I think we can get at least a few", why the fuck would they it's already a bad situation so why risk maybe salvaging it when they could have just kept running regroup and done it again the right way

[@Mythix-net]

No idea man, I believe the tank also pitched in to ask the group to stop running and fight after making some of these pulls. It was chaos.

[@jonathontoney2338]

I'd group with everyone there after this except for the rogue. Healer did great, tanks bad pull practice could be fixed with a few suggestions, Pirate issue would be easy fix in normal situations like tanks, druid was fine till panic like pirate so again easy. Rogue made 2 bad calls that doomed them, 1 to run, 1 to stop. Then after he started everyone's favorite game the blame game. Everyone is up in arms about Pirates 'attitude' while ignoring the fact that they almost 100% certainly have done the same thing in the past themselves when someone blamed them. Get over yourselves people its a game, he is just a guy playing a game, you don't like him don't watch him but people are making way to big a deal out of it. Do what I would do, don't like the blame game don't play with the rogue, don't like Pirates attitude don't play with him, enough with pitchforks and torches.

[@jaykay9783]

Not a bad take the only critque i have on it is that you seem to have missed the druids role in the mayhem. He was the one to pull the 2nd pack on the pull when he moved behind the ogre and then pulling the 3rd pack down the ramp by jumping around. If you watch the footage carefully you can see the ogre down the ramp frost bolt him, before they took out the priest from healing aggro.

[@Aisaaax]

Rogue did literally nothing this entire encounter. If you look at his perspective he didn't even attack the mobs. He basically was doing the same thing as Pirate but closer to the party, while nonstop shouting. Druid ass pulled both additional trash packs. That aside (which is a huge aside) he played ok. Mage did roach out and didn't help. But I feel if you were to attribute blame the others F-ed up so much that his contribution is like 5-10%.

[@Mythix-net]

@@Aisaaax yeah for sure

[@CyberMonkey03]

Rogue killed 1 mob at least(mastiff), and he got aggro on boss so Ozzy could make it out at the end. 😂 He did more than that mage who completely roached

[@GreenBeanGreenBean]

No, all the problems would have been solved by rank 1 blizzard on the initial pack pull. The healer got clubbed by adds that were not slowed. That is entirely on pirate. Everyone made mistakes but pirate was responsible for 50% plus... including letting the adds run over to the healer. The worst part of it is he was pouting in an argument with the other dps and let the entire group down to blink out... and it wasn't his worst roach out of the run, that happened a half hour earlier.

[@Aisaaax]

@CyberMonkey03 Pirate also killed a mastiff before running. Also rogue did NOT get aggro. First of all he can't, without doing damage. He cast blind on an immune boss which is the only CD he used. No crippling, no cc, nothing. What you saw there isn't aggro - this mob randomly charges at people.

[@Aisaaax]

@GreenBeanGreenBean look, I'm not saying that mage couldn't SOLVE the problems. What I'm saying is that him not solving the issue is less of a bad thing than other people CAUSING the issues to begin with. Did Pirate play bad and had a negative attitude? Yes! But if I tally up all the mistakes and bad calls here and play blame attribution - he is at like 5-10%. What you have is 3 people each causing massive problems and then blaming a mage for not SOLVING the problems THEY caused.

[@fateweaver9844]

All I can say is people making death threats towards PirateSoftware (and yes, people are that parasitic when it comes to streamers) really need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and reevaluate their life and personal choices. It's honestly creepy af to get that emotionally involved, ESPECIALLY since it wasn't your hc toon that died. Like, whether or not PirateSoftware effed up or not, it's completely insane to threaten actual physical harm against him and those in his circle. Even IF it was your toon that died it's a goddamn video game. It's pixels on a screen. Move on with life. 😅

[@Mythix-net]

I am both shocked that people are threatening someone over a game and deeply saddened at the deeper reflection for whats happening to our young men in society. We should have more dignity and honor than this men, breaks my heart to hear.

[@Dunkeyhote]

No one is making any legit death threats. This is just an attempt to garner pity lol

[@fateweaver9844]

@Dunkeyhote Yeah okay. 🙄🙄🙄. Because death threats NEVER happen to streamers

[@Dunkeyhote]

@ can you name a single streamer that has received a credible death threats?

[@fateweaver9844]

@Dunkeyhote Can you prove no streamer ever has? You are very very new to social media if you think streamers don't get credible death threats. Might as well claim streamers don't get legit SWATed either. 🤣🤣🤣 Dmfk clown Even joking about killing someone still proves an unhinged grasp on reality over a fucking video game. You are coming off as someone who has either made death threats towards a streamer or condone it.