Dawn Gate - The Game that Solved Toxicity - 2

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• Dawn Gate - The Game t... - Part 1
• Dawn Gate - The Game t... - Part 2
• Dawn Gate - The Game t... - Part 3
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#Shorts #Twitch #PirateSoftware

[@randomguyontheinternet5030]

"when was the last time you saw someone apologize in a MOBA" Holy fuck. You're so right.

[@SuperMurxus]

Is apologizing online even allowed? I mean - doesn't that conflict with some human rights? ;D

[@max7971]

When was the last time you saw someone apologizing online? Why should you see someone apologizing online? Why do you feel that you deserve an apology?

[@mysongsbob5681]

I said 'sorry I fucked that' in a lol game and after literally like 5 chill lines after. Got chat warning contested it and cause i dropped the f bomb even against me the chat warning was valid

[@randomguyontheinternet5030]

@@mysongsbob5681 Yeah that does suck. Youd think they could just have a chat filter if it was over text.

[@MirrorHall_Clay]

​​​@@max7971people like you are the reason mobas are toxic hellholes. If you aren't a dick people will like you. If you are a dick you become that guy nobody likes. That's everybody on mobas, because of that self-centered "I don't _owe_ you anything" mindset you seem to think is acceptable. I've seen plenty of people apologizing online. _Because all parties involved are humans._ The anonymity of the internet is not an excuse, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.

[@coachleif]

Reminds me a bit of older MMOs, where community mattered more, and your reputation followed you. By no means perfect, but you found it chilled a lot of people out, and made them want to work together because there was a hit to your ability to progress if everyone hated you.

[@HauntingSpectre]

WoW Before the Servers became essentially pointless. Used to be huge server communities and reputations. People knew everybody, especially on the smaller servers. Didn't matter which side you were on.

[@Nuvizzle]

And then there were the agents of chaos who actually did everything in their power to grief everyone they met, but because they were relatively rare and so committed to their craft it felt like a genuine part of the roleplaying experience. Dudes were just the villains of the story and did it better than any NPC ever could.

[@HauntingSpectre]

@@Nuvizzle Griefer on Ursin was basically legendary for being a KOS Undead Rogue. If it was red, it was dead, and he'd often do it to lure out other high level Alliance players for him to fight. Brought about some legendary open World PvP that did, complete with scout reports on his last known where abouts.

[@kedalin]

Who didn't play MMORPGs before WoW doesn't know what a nice and chilled community is. WoW ruined that for everyone.

[@Kabopple]

Definitely feel this. Everquest was like that. If you were a jerk then everyone on the server knew, or at least your level cohort, and it would become impossible to group/level/raid.

[@TH-dg2mm]

People fail to understand this. The reason League of Legends is so toxic is because you can buy a new botted level 30 ranked-ready account for literally $1.00.

[@PirateSoftware]

Absolutely true. Dawn Gate made this process harder because botting without interaction didn't give you enough EXP to progress to 30 in any meaningful amount of time. This meant that account sellers needed to run the bots for longer and it cut into their overall pay over time. Better system than league by far.

[@sasuke-qn2yo]

That’s my side hustle 😈

[@osososd]

Well due to toxicity people getting better ranks

[@Ghost-Raccoon]

And even moderately toxic people don't really get permabanned. You have to be really really awful to get banned for toxicity.

[@gulagchampxd]

wrong the reason people are so toxic are because my teammates are dogshit🤓🤓

[@scottwagner2566]

I apologized once in LoL for a failed engage and got 3 people piling on me for fucking up. All that taught me was to turn off chat. Which then drove me away from competitive multiplayer games for years. People are exhausting.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

*shitty ppl are exhausting

[@vectoralphaSec]

This is one reason I only play single player games.

[@gbishel]

I would play with you

[@mcponcho7242]

I always found doubling down on the apology worked well. So after you say “MB that didn’t work” and they pile on you continue with “Yeah absolutely dog**** of me, just report me at the end guys, I deserve it”. Guaranteed they stop. Nobody wants to listen to the depressive self abuse, and the people looking for an argument aren’t getting their fix.

[@StephenButlerOne]

​@@vectoralphaSecbeing in my 40s I never got into multiplayer games. And I hate the trend towards online multiplayer. I've think I played GTA online once in its early days and l lasted about ten mins. Also few years before that I tried a single game for FIFA online. Just some kid screaming at me. My kids in the other hand, the lads play FIFA online almost 100% and my daughter is in was on MC servers, and then moved over to Roblox, she has meant some good longtime friends. And run into the odd weirdo.

[@koshey245]

I apologized to someone after an M+, explained that it has been a hell of a week and I'd just lost my dad to suicide and took it out on them without thinking. Ended up grouping with them a few times over the next few months and they always asked how I was that day

[@caden.copeland1727]

Damn that’s wholesome, so sorry about your dad though man.

[@dongriffith2662]

Felix that you?

[@thetageist]

I hope you’re doing much better these days. You deserve it for being self-aware and able to open up like that.

[@nofme]

How you doing today?

[@mrginedive]

I'm sorry for your lost buddy

[@perrycarters3113]

The one time I turned a toxic situation around in League, it was with a team that was super angry at each other because our first game went badly, saying some really heinous shit. So I told them to put up or shut up. Convinced all four of my angry, arguing teammates to queue up one more time, all in the same roles, same champs, and see what happens. "If the loss REALLY wasn't your fault, then you'll have no problem spending 20 minutes and proving it." We had a hard-fought 35 minute victory. By the 20 minute mark, everyone was on the same side. No arguing, no yelling, no mean comments when someone died or made a mistake. Just callouts, compliments and even some banter. We ended up queuing up together a few more times after that. Last time I heard from them, two of them had become good friends and were actually planning to room together at the same college. I still think about it sometimes and feel proud of myself.

[@hatsurrin]

Leage matchmaker fr 🫡🫡

[@abyssion8]

Oh man, Dawngate. Getting that Divine Gift at the end was such a feeling of power.

[@RabidDogma]

It was genuinely the most fun I ever had in a MOBA. And of course EA didn't even let it get through beta OR allow fans to keep it alive. Actually disgusting.

[@amythistxue1]

still remember the first time I got a new character out of one of those, loved that game then EA murdered it before it even had a chance to get going

[@Neselman21]

@@RabidDogma is it possible that more people hated it than loved it?

[@drizztdourden4929]

@@Neselman21 Very unlikely. Gamers want to have fun. Trust each other. Play together. Toxicity tends to bring the worst out of people and lead to loneliness and paranoia as you cant trust anyone. Watched that multiple times on all different kinds of Servers. When the mods are overwhelmed by toxicity and give up all the good players leave or minimise their interaction with other players. The resulting playerbase is destructive against new players and harms the game long term as it only attracts even more toxic players

[@Butelish]

@@RabidDogma cause no one care about another one league of legends copy.

[@Patrick_The_Pure]

I saw it happen once in Smite, dude had a stroll of bad luck with match after match after match, day in, day out, of absolute garbage. He was fed up, he was cranky, he insulted us simply for not having the ability of foresight. We lost the match and he apologized cause the match really didn't go that bad, it was an even match. We could have reported him, but we didn't, he reflected on his behavior and thought "man i was a prick", he even said so. He apologized and that's it, and apology goes a long way. If we did report him, he would have gotten a 2 week suspension. However, this was one time, never have i seen anyone apologize ever again.

[@lilv47368]

I see alot of people use vvs in smite, but the problem with voice lines saying sorry, as opposed to typed interactions, is that people often interpret them as sarcastic

[@Patrick_The_Pure]

@@lilv47368 "You Rock" "Cancel That"

[@Trapp_]

Design defines player interaction.

[@emporioalnino4670]

We are all products of our environment in games and in reality

[@tarzymmos]

Exactly! That's why games like DRG are so surprising wholesome when you've been playing fps games like cod your whole life

[@cattysplat]

Only for those who care. Anyone who doesn't just barge in and say/do what they want. Happens everywhere in life.

[@TuhljinTampergauge]

Environment attracts and repels certain types of people, too. There are plenty of good people who don't get transformed by game design into jerks. If game design "makes" you a jerk, you already wanted to be one.

[@Trapp_]

@@TuhljinTampergaugeIt's not about being a jerk. For example. Imagine you can enter a certain activity once a week and only once a week. Game progression is designed in a way that if you fail it you significantly fall behind for the next 5 weeks. And this activity allows only a limited amount of players in at once. Then if all players have a boost from previous weeks they can skip portions of mechanics and make finishing activity way easier. You can absolutely bet that people would form closed groups and allow no new players to join, unless they cleared it multiple times and have an active boosts. People who clear it every week may or may not act as an elitist jerks, people who get regected may or may not despise clearing group. But either way it breeds division and toxicity. If you scale down some elements of design community problems may scale down with them over time. But amount of stoic good people can not change the whole game community, a lot of gamers will silently avoid drama and just prioritise their fun (or a small amount of time to relax after a stressful day) over somebody else's desire to play/engage. That's why it's on game designers to avoid negative engagement instruments like lockouts and designed balancement issues and griefing mechanics.

[@gamersresidence6040]

A crackling voice comes in over the radio. Hectic screams are all you can pick up before the transmission cuts off: "HE IS TOO NICE! we can't overpo-"

[@polygondeath2361]

In my 4+ years of playing League, I’ve never seen anyone apologize. I audibly gasped when I heard someone apologized in a MOBA 😂

[@blankazure217]

I played since season 1 until literally this year. I never seen anyone apologize, they're more likely to run it down than apologize or even play. I'm too damn old to deal with it, anymore.

[@Lkabss]

Saw someone apologize once in like 11 years. He flamed me for not following him to a stupid dragon call, which i called him out on. He was typing to me later for not ashe hawking a dragon so he could steal with smite so my friend started bashing him for it, but I typed "no hes right its fine". Communication was 10x better after that and after making a massive comeback he was like "mb for the flame bro" Only apology I've ever seen in league to this day.

[@AdamOwenBrowning]

I started in S1 and ended in S4. A few people apologize, it wasn't massively rare now on my NA smurf, everyone behaves like an absolute bellend, and Gold players on NA were Bronze players on EUW It's so bizarre how EUW and NA differ. doubt you get many apologies there.

[@battlebots1]

I see apologies all the time but I guess I mostly play draft not ranked

[@babygirlaether]

i rarely flame anyone but i have added people after the game just to apologize for being harsh 🙈🙈🙈

[@shiroblank277]

THE DAWNGATE HAS OPENED. I miss this game so bad.

[@ArcaneEiro]

🥹🥹

[@gentleman_oni]

The first MOBA that not only took good gameplay into consideration, but also the story. I loved every update to the ongoing comic

[@nekomyeggo8821]

As an ex Overwatch player they messed up more than just player power when it came to endorsements. Even if you did great it was so easy to forget to endorse because you would have to pull up the tab to endorse between queue which is when most people afk. There were so many times I realized i forgot to endorse a support or just a player I thought derived it. Also the rewards just sucked even in the higher tiers it never felt rewarding to hit such a thing let alone if you weren't an E-girl or popular streaming tier 5 would derank to fast to maintain for a meaningful amount of time.

[@FighteroftheNightman]

The deranking was brutal and in ow2 you couldn't endorse everyone usually people did the support and tank never dps. My dps was level 1 endorsement my support was 4

[@WhyWasItMyRealName]

Should have made it so that voting for someone is worth 1 point aswell

[@adamstapley6995]

Yeah playing overwatch is the equivalent of playing league of legends, toxic, sweaty no matter what gamemode you play quickplay being the sweatiest mode, and a lot of ppl suffering from the dunning kruger effect, plus it's free so little kids are playing too which is fine until they start acting like that as well

[@HardnerPL]

Also people often endorse based on how well you play. So you can be the nicest person in the world, but you're gonna get reported rather than endorsed if you had a bad game. Toxic people use endorsements in a toxic way.

[@topogigio7031]

Rein Main here, knowing that you've positively influenced someone enough to endorse you at all is it's own reward

[@thadman3003]

'links in the comments'....... Pin that shit

[@Unpwned89]

It was really sad the year that almost all online games stopped moderating. I remember even League of Legends had a tribunal thing where if you had reported enough people who were toxic then riot would give you a title basically saying you were a tribunal person. And I remember getting on there and I would read tons of things to vote on they let you see chat logs and everything and you could vote whether or not someone should get a temp ban or a perma ban. That only lasted a few months and they took it all down.

[@cattysplat]

We live in an automated hell today.

[@DaveUnknown]

If I remember correctly, around 90% of the people that did tribunal would just randomly click ban or forgive and not read anything in order to get the reward that was tied to it faster. The results from the tribunal was basically useless and RNG if people would actually get banned.

[@1MooseyGoosey1]

This could have been easily solved if people were tricked into taking test tribunals where it's obvious if a ban is necessary or not, and if their answer is wrong then it means that person is incompetent or just not reading the chat log. And these tests could be intermittently done so that they can remove players from tribunals if theh ever start just not reading the chat. Trivial fix but no one implemented it.

[@Nuvizzle]

Tribunal didn't work out because they offered rewards for doing it and people would just run through all their tribunal cases and click the punish button without reading what happened. Yes Riot could've mitigated this and done things better, but this is Riot we're talking about. They tried the Tribunal because it seemed like the easiest solution that required the least work on their part, the moment it was obvious it wasn't working they dropped it like they usually do.

[@ssFaxes]

i was in the 10% i really enjoyed the tribunal stuff, one shit part was it didn't keep the end lobby chat if I remember right. @@DaveUnknown

[@S1ippyOG]

Meanwhile TF2: YOU WIN AN ACHIEVMENT IF U MAKE A DOMINATED PLAYER QUIT

[@stagaries1696]

Instead riot removes any form of communication so players eat up their frustration and let it out in gameplay since that doesnt get punished anyway. This year i was 10 times more toxic gameplay wise, because simply chatting got me flagged somehow (most "offensive" was "did drake kill you?" or sth like that). Since they also refuse to balance their game in a healthy manner i finally was able to uninstall and ive never been happier all my life (ive played the game since i was 9 lel)

[@DaveUnknown]

Your comment makes me think that played for 4 years

[@mooted5513]

Exactly. Allow people to cuss each other out. Get over yourself. If you can’t cope with someone calling you a f f n f a m r pos, go read a book

[@johan4989]

​@@mooted5513if you can't play video games without being a cussy lil baby towards your teammates, maybe you're the mf who should read a book lmao

[@mooted5513]

@@johan4989 Yeah.. but then I can’t ask you to stop being a massive f

[@jordan9604]

So, the real question, how old are you? The 9 years old... lel.. has me spinning. Did you pick up the game a month ago, or 8 years ago? Genuinely confused.

[@xoffewt3344]

if the part 1&2 comment is already pinned, ignore this comment

[@lampshade6579]

I think this is a vastly underappreciated aspect of competitive games. Studies have proven that people can perform better, and stay in flow states for longer with cooperative and positive teammates. So putting in a system that would diminish toxic people's progress in competitive climb, would legitimately raise the skill ceiling of online multiplayer games. This what I think the next big step in competitive gaming that we need to take.

[@3eve0n]

ok but the ranked climb is supposed to be based on skill level, winning and losing. If you let anything else affect rating, you'll have inflated/deflated ratings, players won't trust the ladder because of that, and worst of all, it could also affect matchmakings ability to create balanced matches.

[@Onlyg0d]

@@3eve0nthink pick up basketball, and trash talk. It’s popular and it works. It makes people win or lose bc it’s insufferable. Do you really want that?

[@3eve0n]

@@Onlyg0d you know what's more insufferable? Having a teammate that's only at your rating because they're nice, so they have no idea what they're doing and are completely useless to the team to the point you might as well be playing down a person the whole time. This system is great when applied to basically anything but a ranked ladder, but when put into that context specifically, this is the sort of scenario it creates. Sorry mate, but I'll take balanced matches over people maybe being a little less toxic any day of the week.

[@Onlyg0d]

@@3eve0n I assumed you wouldn’t get promoted for being nice. I just assumed you’d get banned for being a jerk. Would you at least agree with that being a good idea?

[@3eve0n]

@@Onlyg0d uh yeah of course that's a good idea it's literally the standard.

[@sbader7248]

Just started playing iracing and it’s basically the same system. The only way to rank up is to be a safe driver so it’s really common to see people apologize after doing something dumb so they don’t get reported for intentionally causing a wreck.

[@gamo-LT-fut]

This, exactly. Iracing and other sims are trying to go that path, which is waaaaaaay less toxic than other "competitive" online games. Enjoy the drive brother

[@i.c.wiener2750]

I don't understand the need for this. If someone bothers you, just mute them. It's quicker than reporting someone after a game and has a 100% success rate. The system wouldn't even solve toxicity. It's not like people stop raging IRL because of this. Also nowadays with purely automated punishments and bans the system gets abused way too often. Talked about the Israel/Palestine conflict in barrens chat at 3am and got a 7 day ban for it. Not because of the words I said, but because enough people (Muslims lol) reported me.

[@TheOblomoff]

Just because I like to poke at the seams, I'll say this: Losing in ranked matches (if you don't care about your rank too much, that is) - gives you easier opponents. Therefore gives you a sense of power. So, contrary happens. Being a jerk, afking, losing on purpose - gives you power. Can that be fixed? Probably not. Unless you like, actually do tie your power to your 'not being a jerk'. Huh. I guess the title doesn't lie.

[@benjaminhartsock3281]

Agreed, but this system solves even that. Because there's fewer people in ranked, due to the grind, and the fact that the people in ranked are disinclined to get banned or reported, people intentionally losing would get caught a lot faster, and get banned a lot faster.

[@max7971]

@@benjaminhartsock3281 >people are disciplined to be banned or reported The brave new world

[@DizzyDisco93]

Ah yes. Limiting player count is a perfect solution.

[@AimbotFreak]

​@@benjaminhartsock3281 Meaning rank fails to function.

[@SCP-tn2ln]

So your solution is making every single game a grind and you have to play thousands of hours for progression? Fuck no, i want to get good at a game because of skill, not because of not having a life

[@itsSteaLy]

this idea is actually genuis

[@JACpotatos]

To an extent.... And then you realize that playing with friends crippled your progression. Or maybe you just don't want to be extra talkative that day. It's not a bad idea, but it's kinda weird to punish people for playing with their friends

[@GrugTheJust]

Implemented Psychology 101, determine what you want from the person, engineer the system back from that. I learned this in communication class, the final was "get someone to do something during a presentation." My presentation was as a pretend gumball machine salesman, during my "pitch" I had a gumball machine on stage and invited everyone to use it, while I handed out quarters. Most everyone went up to the machine, and I basically bought an A on my final for about 7 dollars.

[@Nuvizzle]

@@JACpotatos I assure you, you didn't have to be talkative. People were happy to honor you after the game as long as you weren't a jerk. It basically worked the opposite of how honoring works in League, instead of only honoring if you thought someone particularly deserved it you simply didn't honor someone you didn't think deserved it.

[@max7971]

@@Nuvizzle lmao, literally a participation trophy. No wonder the game failed.

[@mugnuz]

@@GrugTheJust im glad you learned something because that sounds like the easiest final ive ever heard of.

[@keylightsystems]

Stop with the nice crap in games. It really ruins the experience.

[@Bobbyjyner]

Omg I’ve been listening to your shorts for a while now and it finally hit me. Your voice is just a deeper version of Alan Alda. Hell yeah

[@sariarosegold]

he does have a similar pacing to his voice doesnt he

[@izzetfactory7828]

I saw someone apologize in a moba once , he told me "im sorry ... you were ever born" real heartwarming stuff

[@HecticNova]

I was wrong about something yesterday. I apologized and my carry was completely understanding. Good game.

[@cerealhit555]

What a dumb idea. Do people not understand how easily abusable this is?

[@Bane_Diesel]

I find it funny how nice some people can be in EFT and it is not because they gain anything from being nice. It is because they know what the struggle for new players is like and have sympathy for the newbs.

[@TheArklyte]

As a Warthunder player, I have a weird gut feeling that this idea would NOT work as well as you advertise it 😅

[@pilotowl]

We really need more developers like him.. Finally someone understands how a community is a big part of a game. And it needs to be taken care of. New games rather gifts toxic people, not punishing them.

[@vappyreon1176]

It's not about developers, it's that the structure of a lot of gaming companies prevents the developers from making better games

[@max7971]

You are delusional if you think that developers cater to “toxic” people, or reward them in any way. The moderation is downright invasive, the bans are instant and automated, and Thor is unironically advocating social credit score. How is this not enough for you?

[@munteanucatalin9833]

I am glad Dawngate died and not even went out of Beta. Insane grind for nothing in particular, clunky mechanics and an overall bad and unsatisfactory user experience. I usually dislike and disagree with EA, but in this case they made the right decision.

[@dragunwerks5246]

I was one of the QA Testers on Dawngate. That game was the worst snowballing MOBA the developers could make and refused to listen to any feedback from the QA team. It did have a "nice" community though.

[@disrespank]

In 15 years of being a gamer, only once did a player apologize to me after the match, explain that he had a difficult day, and say that he was sorry for his behaviour.

[@FighteroftheNightman]

I was once toxic to someone and then apologized i was just frustrated. You can tell most the players never played organized team sports. In actual sports you up your game when a homie is having a bad game and he will do the same. In video games everyone acts like theyre always perfect theyignore their mistakes. In ow2 there was almost always something i could have done in a team fight. Now injust play path of exile, minecraft, and Crusader Kings 3 though indont even mess with other games everything is sooo toxic its not even worth it

[@SargentD4]

Bad take and creates a fake environment

[@lettherebedots]

People apologize in MOBAs?? WTF?

[@ravvij9643]

So, how would you keep this from being abused in other games? Fir example, Overwatch's competitive play. A lot of people got spamed and banned for just using a character people didn’t like at the time. Not even a ligit reason, but swarmed with bullshit reasons and as fast as possible so the auto-ban would kick in. I've also heard that a similar thing happeneing to players who were... (different?) basically just didn’t have the same attitude, personality, and speaking petterns as the other competative players, as far as i could tell. Would it be prudent to put this system into place for the those doing the false reporting as well?

[@Draenal]

Dawngate was the greatest game that never got to happen. Everything about that game felt awesome.

[@DefianceOrDeath]

And there's a reason I've never heard of Dawn Gate. Toxicity is human. Humans play video games. You people want to code your way around human nature and whenever I see games try to do this, the game isn't successful. They might have been successful in preventing "toxicity", but they were also successful in alienating a huge portion of people that play video games. One might assume I'm a major asshole for saying this, and like being rude to people. I have my moments, sure-- but that's largely moments where people are doing scummy things. So games like this essentially create situations where people can do scummy things, but others cannot tell them off for it. I don't like that scenario. I don't like that someone can "be a jerk" with their actions and be fine, but then I could get banned for telling them that they're a jerk in slightly more animated language. That to me is a situation and environment that isn't worth investing my time in. In general I don't think any human beings voice should be silenced unless they're saying illegal things. Toxicity isn't the end of the world. If a stranger on the Internet can impact your real life with the words they say, honestly, you're the problem.

[@fuzzyfailure2691]

Honestly, the last time I heard someone apologise, I was playing with a really passionate Russian dude, me and my best friend didn’t take the toxicity too seriously bc it was a lot of ‘your mum is x’ so I just started telling back saying ‘ITS WINNABLE, WERE A TEAM BRO, WE GOT THIS’ full screaming into my microphone, about 15 minutes later we started making a full comeback and we just hear this Russian dude sheepishly like “I… I’m sorry for what I said about your mother…” and I was just “ITS ALL GOOD BRO, WE’RE A TEAM, RIDE OR DIE HOMIE!” And he just perked right up and started yelling and being passionate again. Honestly my most wholesome moba experience ever

[@Disk]

"When was the last time you saw someone apologize in a MOBA?" HAHHH!!

[@K3ArtTime]

But that doesn’t actually solve the problem you’re just creating fake people, you’re creating two faced people. People will lie to your face and then report you. Banning people is not the solution. People are getting angry because the game is not worth the hassle it’s giving them.

[@ballewinalol3462]

Man I cant stop watching this guy

[@justateddybear951]

I dunno man. Forced positivity seems almost more toxic to me. Like the sort of thing that would actually just make someone go insane

[@shodanargie1574]

Forcing people to be nice not because thats us what they feel like being but rather out of fear doesnt really sound great. Id rather have more genuine honest reactions even if its toxic

[@Neniuki]

Interesting way to handle it, but what if it was abused by people using false reports?

[@AaronMichaelLong]

Dawn Gate was shuttered before launch, so the notion that some "be nice" system was going to actually work is completely conjectural.

[@OsthatoAlfakyn]

Ah, that is useful context, thank you for sharing!

[@DatsVatSheSaid]

Yes, but it shut down before launch because it's parent company was EA who were disappointed it didn't make League level money in early access.

[@Arjay404]

Yeah, I don't see how this system wouldn't just be gamed by all the players, they would all have as secret agreement to always give everyone else a positive vote, then everyone gets power and the whole system becomes meaningless.

[@AaronMichaelLong]

@@Arjay404Maybe, maybe it devolves into a griefing engine. Without empirical evidence, I think it's just self-indulgent to pretend that you've "solved" toxicity.

[@AimbotFreak]

​@@DatsVatSheSaid The system stifled progression because it tied it to other peoples decisions rather than gameplay.

[@uppishcub1617]

So what you're saying is that if I get max level, despite being based, it'll prove just how much better I am than everyone else.

[@Macks-bc1gg]

Oh my god thank you so much. This is the first channel that actually puts links for the other parts. Thank you

[@DingusKhan42]

Except now you're actively disincentivized to play with friends.

[@chrisburgett165]

That's a fair point

[@asonofliberty3662]

Not really? Why could you not play with friends?

[@polygondeath2361]

@@asonofliberty3662it is a fair point since you cannot be voted on by your friend(s).

[@DingusKhan42]

@@asonofliberty3662it's not that you couldn't, but if player power/progression is tied to kudos, if you want to not be penalized and level at a glacial pace, you have to play solo queue for even the opportunity to level faster. A five stack that always plays together progresses at the same rate as the most toxic player alive.

[@rompevuevitos222]

You usually get party bonuses in these games AND idk what psychopath can tell their friend "i don't want to play with you, i want my good person bonus"

[@Riku_DarkWielder]

I apologize all the time in Dota2, thankfully I don't play ranked and a lot people honestly are pretty understanding.

[@kayinzel5183]

My friends and I still talk about how good that game was all the time. Wish it never got shut down cause they did everything right.

[@max7971]

-they did everything right -they shit down the game Pick one, and only one

[@Sapphier4Dav]

Game devs habe to understand that in the world of today they have the job to educate as well. Games in the past didnt. Its like the soccer club or others clubs forge the behaviour of the people in it. Especially the young ones

[@JfkNeedsWindWall]

Openly toxic behavior is preferable to soft inting. At least I can mentally check out of the game if someone admits they'll run it down unlike someone pretending to have a bad game that isn't reportable

[@cattysplat]

Also block their communication.

[@juanignaciocaso4651]

they successfully digitized getting punched in the mouth for being a jerk, and everyone is suddenly kind and polite. go figure.

[@airborngaming2250]

Because false pleasantries and two faced personalities are so nice to deal with.

[@max7971]

Absolutely agree. I can’t stand ffxiv people, I’ll take bluntness over passive-aggressive bickering any day of the week.

[@everlastiny]

I'd rather deal with fake politeness over honest rudeness, they are not people who you are gonna be part of your life, so who cares if they are being fake?

[@Squallcloud95]

I want to play a game not marry them haha. Politeness with stranger is basic social behavior.

[@shinobuoshino5066]

@@everlastiny so you'd rather have a guy trolling and being nice in chat than a guy carrying your ass and flaming you every time you make a mistake?

[@TheNeoVid]

Fake nice is much better than genuine asshole.

[@hamiltonow5214]

(This did not work)

[@beatzbyreefah]

I just found this channel today and I already love it

[@shweed1447]

I don’t think being nice should be necessary for video games I think people need thinker skin.

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

When being matched with a bad player and having to play with them effects you more than being a dick to that player, enough people will be shitheads.

[@smevox7490]

Game will fail. 100%

[@Stedman75]

I think one of the best online experiences you can have is in Deep Rock Galactic.

[@AlexW-]

this sounds sooo bad... what the fuck. who wants that ???

[@max7971]

Reddit people

[@boiboi2674]

let people say what ever they want... there is a mute button for a reason.

[@beast714mode]

sounds boring

[@BTRshow]

Apologizing? In LoL???!? 💀💀💀

[@them4309]

Yeah, it's simply called, "consequences".

[@askmeagain43]

'Part 1 and 3 in comments' ...where though?

[@WraithTDK]

The IDEA is fantastic, but I can't imagine the implimentation of it. How do they quantify niceness? What metrics are they using for that? Seems like such a subjective concept. Team Fortress 2 is a fantastic example. I've been kicked out of more games than I can count because people were just FURIOUS at me for actually playing the game the way it was designed to be played. IE, I shoot the enemy team, and I try to win the game. I don't cheat, I don't insult people, I don't go out of my way to grief anyeone, I just try to win. But in that game, a lot of people just want to screw around and inact memes. To THEM, I'm toxic because I'm "ruining their fun." To ME, they're toxic, because they're logging in to a game that they apparently don't consider to be fun when actually played as intended, and giving people hell for wanting to just play a normal game. So who, if anyone, gets penalized in a situation like this?

[@Johnny_C137]

Imagine trying to do this in Halo, or COD...

[@juanmanuelsantamaria2223]

last time someone apologized in a moba was when he apologized to my mother for having to give birth to me 😂

[@josephbommarito4227]

When have I ever wanted someone to apologize? As long as you are not hacking I do not care how you play or what you say. Can you grief me and get me frustrated? Yes. Can you hurt my feelings? No. We are strangers playing a video game over the internet....... The harder you try; the harder I'm laughing.

[@gabadaba5436]

I dont think overwatch's toxicity problem will ever be solved, unless they tie the endorsement system to how fast you rank up, which i dont see them ever doing. The fact that a level one account can do the exact same stuff as a level 1000+ account will keep the game toxic, because it doesnt matter. Even them cracking down on toxic players isnt helping

[@yakopc6600]

Ive seen people apologise in a shooter (valorant). This is not to dismiss the point, I knew I was witnessing a shiny odds game xD Altho in paladins I barely never had overtly toxic experiences. I think in a few years I only got tilted from someone being toxic twice or thrice, and they did have specific praises to give to players after the match :)

[@MJS-lk2ej]

who would have thunk it. actually (instead of symbolically) rewarding good behaviour whilst punishing bad behaviour is how you modify behaviours... I could have sworn there is a field of science that has had this figured out for decades but its name slips my mind.

[@AimbotFreak]

Except it doesn't do either instead it ties your progression to the democratic process.

[@max7971]

I would tell you to go and enjoy your hug-box echo chamber, but it failed before release, so I guess we are stuck with you here.

[@andrewprahst2529]

I would not want to play a game like that.

[@JustWatchingVideo56]

Typical corporate

[@ayylmao1193]

Unfathomably cringe

[@TheGreenYoutuber]

Thor you goddamn liar where is part 3

[@kupas2]

kzbin.infovMi0rR3SjAc

[@Banana_Loupe]

Thats why I love Counterstrike. Nothing is moderated, its just a war field and im the main character in it.

[@Terotrous]

To be honest, I feel like toxicity is usually a game design problem. I play a lot of games with a certain friend, and we literally never argue except when we play Overwatch, which seems to be a common experience if the forums are any indication. I think the main issue is that Overwatch is an incredibly frustrating game to play, and frustration makes people toxic. There's a lot of factors that make the game frustrating, but I think the biggest one is the lack of useful player feedback. When a game is going badly, you know something is wrong and you need to take action (generally by swapping a character), but the game doesn't give you any useful information to determine what the actual problem is, so it just leads to a ton of finger pointing.

[@thenextbondvillainklaussch3266]

Or you make a Game world based around Tolkien's Books ....... 😉 LOTRO is the best community ive ever been a part of.

[@stahliboi6249]

Sounds like a good way to smurf. Get a high rank, be a jerk, lose your rank and do your placements again.

[@柯書凱-k4o]

Mobile Legends is a daily grind for me, but the toxicity is unreal. Reporting feels like a ritual, yet bans rarely happen. It's a global issue, from Japan to Singapore, with the worst experiences often linked to certain regions. Moonton's efforts fall short; chatting can get you reported even for minor slip-ups. The rare apology in-game doesn't save you. It's time for a real change in the system! On the flipside, I play FFXIV every day, also on the Japan server. There are jerks in the game, but there's a system in place to deal with them. If you're really bad, you'll end up in the "Mordion Gaol." It's a different world compared to Mobile Legends!

[@killaekiron9009]

That reminds me of Sidereal Confluence, my favorite board game. It fixes a lot of the problems with trading and negotiation games by rewarding even and mutually beneficial trades between players. Usually, the winning player isn't the one who got more out of each trade, but the one who did the most mutually beneficial trades.

[@PhantazmaSage]

Moba players hate themselves so I couldn't imagine them liking a teammate very much

[@airrogue4428]

Forced positivity in games is just disgusting, feels like your in some totalitarian country and need to control your social credit lol

[@Timoshemperoni]

Maybe but how hard is it for people to not be toxic? Whenever I play an MMO like wow or eso, the tradechat is full of chaotic political discussions, annoying memes and cringey edge lords. I play video games to escape that crap, not have it shoved in my face. There is nothing nicer that playing with a kind and considerate player. Now things are different in a cod lobby but anyone can be muted for bullying. That's more competitive and has a history of being chaotic. I don't have an issue with tea bagging or camping but the stupid chatter gets on my nerves lol.

[@airrogue4428]

@@Timoshemperoni being toxic is normal, people is toxic by default, and the way to fix it is make the game itself about working together. Best example is deep rock galactic, where toxic players is almost nonexistent, but I don’t think means to prevent toxicity even exist there, the game is just so heavily based around working together that people doesn’t want to be toxic. And all this “you said bad word now you get executed by firing squad” is just cringe imo

[@SH1NK1R01]

As time goes on I became more aware of how little riot actually does to solve toxicity in league despite all the “things” they literally do. It’s so obvious that toxicity is a natural symptom of a games environment and people need to be encouraged to be nicer. Being put in a team you didn’t pick who use characters you also didn’t pick, against 5 people you also couldn’t pick or affect is guaranteed to frustrate when things go wrong. Chat restrictions and suspensions won’t change the cause. And honor orbs, or victorious skins aren’t enough incentive. They need to be willing to really bust the players balls over being toxic and shower you for being polite or it won’t change.

[@emojaknight9823]

This is why deep rock galactic works so well

[@Dredd-Mau]

Did I hear a Rock and Stone?

[@Fr_dG]

Daniel Suarez explored this idea in his 2006 books Daemon and Freedom. Great reads!

[@JoeDhirk]

overwatch is not like that anymore since ow2 comes... now it's same as moba, only difference is that you can get banned and it's free now so... new account

[@StrobeFireStudios]

I once laned vs a Jakiro in Dota2. Dude was so cocky and typing in all chat, "ahaha Oracle noob, got you again." - So I'm 0 for 2 and I'm happily biding my time. I get my phylactery and aether lens and start hunting. I end the game 17 for 2 and the Jakiro said "Sorry man I had the wrong attitude earlier" Consider yourself humbled, Mr Jakiro.

[@ZeginMakesMusic]

Imagine Rust adopting those practices. It would ruin the game

[@718Insomniac]

I apologize often. I can get heated, or be in a bad mood and say some extra stuff that wasn't necessary. And ill say it just like that, and apologize for being a jerk.

[@nak3dxsnake]

I didn't even know people could communicate to each other in Overwatch. Such a featureless compact mobile style game. I actually blame it for so many companies thinking its okay to release crappy small games for the $50 price point. The real toxicity is having to play a game like this and watching other people accept it like its a real game. Reminds me of when Angry Birds was popular even though better versions of that exist and have just been forgotten about.

[@Tory-JJ]

I was an alpha tester, best fera player in ranked.

[@randomuser5443]

Id also consider if the game itself is hostile. Warframe doesn’t have a toxicity problem because everyone knows being toxic wont make a difference

[@They_Call_Me_HeartFace]

the last time? in a challenger ELO, maybe 1-3 years ago between known players or pro's.