Pivot of Empire METAGAME Changes in Victoria 3's Patch 1.8

[@generalistgaming]

I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT ABDICATION WAS SIGNIFICANTLY NERFED AS WELL

[@spadegaming6348]

Minimum expected increasing with high taxation is interesting. Since I'm pretty sure but could be wrong that minimum expected affects pop wage . I'm curious as to how this would interact with taxes lowering their overall disposable income if thats the case.

[@kams2520]

-55% mortality on India in agriculture you now just need the Jewish mortality for -75%

[@EappleSandbox]

@@spadegaming6348 In hotfix 1.8.1 they made it so taxes' effect on expected SOL don't affect wages.

[@gapl2370]

Can you make a stand-alone video about that please? I can’t find anyone else covering the topic

[@Tabako-san]

These new discrimination changes are actually amazing, I'll admit I've had my doubt about how to bring nuance to rather underbaked systems in Victoria 3 without adding more heavy calculation bloat and I hadn't keep up with the dev notes as much as I did with past patches. But they 100% surpassed my expectations with an interesting system that really opened new options for different play patterns and possible choices with a simple and easy to understand change.

[@Solsbeary]

thanks for the point well made 🫶

[@Clear4ce]

What automobiles do well is that it makes pops consume cars (which is a country wide resource) instead of transportation (that is local), and that in turn allows you to use transportation for labour saving PMs

[@generalistgaming]

I'm not sure that effect overall is good, since if it collapses transport prices in some locations that will force you to pay much bigger subsidies. (Edit: I'm not sure it's *bad* either)

[@anotherfreeroller]

​​​@@generalistgamingPaved roads tech affects this calculus a lot, of course. In the meantime, you *can* take off public transportation in specific states' urban centers if their rail subsidies get too punishing. Oh I just described America didn't I

[@grahamturner2640]

The other issue with automobiles is that they’re just one goods substitution PM for motor industries, rather than their own industries.

[@Clear4ce]

@@anotherfreeroller I quickly had a look at this and i think its better to turn railroads to prioritize cargo (i.e. turn off passanger wagons) because public transportation in urban centers is actually a labour saving PM. I havnt delved too deeply in to the subject though so i could very well be wrong.

[@anotherfreeroller]

@@Clear4ce that's a really good point!

[@N4tticus]

One interesting thing with the discrimination rework is that you cannot assimilate pops which have Full Acceptance. This isn't super impactful, but it does mean that multiculturalism + total separation makes you completely unable to assimilate anyone.

[@superdark336]

You have a window to assimilate them as they go up the acceptence ladder but yeah once theyre maxed out, no assimilation

[@KeanuRigley]

The new non discriminating migration is crazy Bro I’m getting millions if immigrants as Russia in 1840😭

[@ynkesfan2003]

Ethnostate/state religion seem like a bad idea in the turmoil meta. What I'm noticing is that you need to pay much closer attention to your loyalist/radical ratio as you don't have a tool to quickly fix radicalism anymore. Income to the player took a bazooka to the head this patch with the change to bankrolls and taxes, taking an additional hit to tax collection and reduced construction efficiency makes growth anemic. It feels gross to say, but I think we need to listen to the peasants this patch.

[@generalistgaming]

I think the might be bad early on and better as your SoL in general rises.

[@genew3452]

If i am undestanding how companies are working now, basically if you choose a company to become leader in its field, you are wanting to turn over all (or most) development in that industry to the private sector (in the form of a market-dominant company), removing the need for the state to actively involve itself in that industry's further development. I think this makes sense once you reach a point where an industry is profitable enough that you do not need to subsidize it to keep it running, and so long as you support industries that either feed into the company's industry or absorb its production, then the company should remain prosperous. For countries that start out fairly advanced economically this probably means some companies are good to use right from the start, while in less developed countries you as the state need to "kick start" the new industry and then once it gets itself established turn the reins over to a company that can develop it further. What might be interesting is to see how this plays out in a laissez-faire situation where you had the investment pool building up an industry due to market needs now having to compete with a favored company that gets throughput bonuses allowing it to gain greater and greater market share within that industry versus the rest of the investment pool.

[@Archadies]

Since 1.0 I have been determined to turn Argentina into a beef/basic textiles superpower. Currently seeing if I can with this patch. Argentina has a couple companies that buff each other along these lines.

[@MANFAIC]

18:30 You can check which pops support a movement. If you find that some pops in the IG you want to manipulate support it, but not enough to pressure the IG, you can force more pops to switch over by simultaneously bolstering the desired movement and suppressing a movement that exerts a lot of pressure on that IG already. This is particularly useful for corn laws, as I found that just bolstering the liberal movement was not enough to pressure the landowners. I sat there for years just bolstering and nothing happened, but when I suppressed every movement that the landowners liked it only took 2 weeks.

[@KieranDix0n]

I think it's worth mentioning that subjects will now always get the 0.2 liberty desire modifier when you annex another subject, even if they accept the annexation.

[@joelfilho2625]

This still sucks so much. Annexing luxembourg has the exact same effect on all your subjects as annexing goddamn mexico. Please make it make sense.

[@rendigmor]

@@joelfilho2625 Won't it be better to just conquer Luxemburg anyway?

[@joelfilho2625]

@@rendigmor It's an example, buddy. Even then, there are many many tiny puppets that you can inherit/randomly "get" in the game, such as krakow when forming super germany (or just playing austria) luxembourg when annexing the dutch, or the 25398 tiny indian princes that you have as the EIC/UK. Annexing any one of these causes the exact same liberty desire effect on every other subject as, say, annexing the entirety of persia or egypt.

[@generalistgaming]

Love this change; hated it being a random roll that was so impactful

[@whitefang20]

They did something to war as well. I pushed in a straight line to the opposing capital without the whole wave of states needed before

[@meatharbor]

Really hoping low wages isn't going to end up being _the_ way to go, especially with slavery. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense economically or historically. Higher wages should mean higher demand and allow for higher prices, which also happens to be one of the core reasons slavery was abolished. Slaves can't buy shit. Slavery is a much more useful institution (from the perspective of the dominant class) if the productive forces are underdeveloped and the need for unskilled, physical labor is higher. As the productive forces develop, labor-saving technologies eliminate the most mundane, unskilled, physical labor first while expanding the need for more skilled laborers to utilize the new technologies. More skilled laborers command higher wages and have increased buying power, etc. etc.. Training/educating/etc. slaves for more "advanced" work is also more expensive, smarter slaves are harder to control and their labor is more valuable and less interchangeable, making it difficult to simply replace less "cooperative" slaves. The institution of wage labor serves all the same purposes of slavery but without nearly so much risk of emancipatory violence (the jalapeno poppers must flow), less costs for the capitalists (since the financial responsibility of paying for the survival, education, propagation, etc. of labor is placed on the worker), workers must fight one-another to compete for jobs rather than cooperating and organizing against the interests of capital and the contradictions and failures of the mode of production itself can be blamed on the workers (you're not poor because you're being exploited, you're poor because you're lazy/stupid/immoral/disloyal/something something bootstraps).

[@generalistgaming]

It seems like finding ways to push the higher brackets of taxes without generating too many radicals is kind of the thing being solved, not sure how slavery figures into that.

[@MindLikeFire]

They're really cooking with these updates not gonna lie

[@theprotractor0379]

Here before the title changed

[@generalistgaming]

Oof

[@BlankTemplate123]

Huh. So does that meam that Ethnostate was buffed in what it does? It was only -33% wages before, it is -50% now. That is a lot less wages and more money for troops!

[@lazykatie42069]

One notable thing you can do with religious schools is, if you're planning to go state atheism, which as far as I can tell is still a pretty good law to get this patch, before you go state atheism, go religious schools for the conversion bonus bc you can't pass religious schools if you're on state atheism but you CAN pass state atheism if you're on religious schools, and the conversion bonus from religious schools means in your first 10 years under state atheism you'll have a whopping 225% conversion rate if your education level is maxed, and even the 125% you'll have after should STILL be enough to outpace the rate of migration to your country, allowing you to eventually get a completely atheist population.

[@generalistgaming]

High discrimination seems best in China, might have to try that out

[@lazykatie42069]

@@generalistgaming I was pretty impressed with the religious schools + state atheism combo when I did it in my Romania run I did recently, I imagine it should still be good on this patch though I haven't tested it yet as I'm waiting for more hotfixes before I play the new patch

[@guahlg2834]

NEW META ALERT 🚨

[@user-lz2oh9zz4y]

in this new patch qualifications became a problem for government buildings early game

[@carlosfuentes9506]

Make sure your citizenship laws allow your pops to work in government buildings. For example, with racial segregation the most discriminated pops can’t serve in the military

[@thebestdamager7400]

I experienced the opposite, as it feels a lot easier to "upgrade" pops into less discriminated classes. Like passing less restricting religious laws or just going up 1 level in citizenship laws is often enough to somewhat resolve employment problems

[@kfoelsch]

Thanks!

[@generalistgaming]

You're very welcome! Thank you for the Superchat!

[@lordflatworm]

Thanks for putting all this together. It would have taken me forever to figure out why high taxes were ruining everything.

[@jacbar_01]

42:11 requesting military assistance as Japan from great powers seems a good strategy, to fight China, instead of going after them from day 1 (when the opium debuff is active)

[@JimStorrie-v3s]

an issue with going state religion + ethnostate is that pops at violent hostility don't convert, and then are eternally stuck at violent hostility from the -25 for being bad religion. if you're absorbing much migration it's hard to pair state religion with anything less than multiculturalism i'm finding

[@lazykatie42069]

btw I looked into game files and secret police arrange accident seems to be actually worth it now so long as you max out home affairs institution, with maxed out home affairs institution the chance of failing and getting caught goes to 0% and you have around a 75% chance of succeeding secret police could potentially be meta now, depends on how much we actually care about the suppression effect on movement radicalism

[@generalistgaming]

The other creators that tested it felt that it basically turned off movements

[@lazykatie42069]

@@generalistgaming yeah, which begs the question of how much we actually like this or not and tbh could be highly context dependent

[@leoF_0312]

Playing as a South American country, my mass migrations (in fact, every mass migration in game) stacked until researching multiculturalism (in 1906!)

[@maximus5668]

This changes are amazing, I remember in forums we talk about the discrimination systems was really plain and had no difference between accepted and country primary culture, that was really bad for immersion, also that the Estate paid the same for public and private healthcare and education, that also had no sense, now all is fixed. All changes seems to be amazing, it´s great patch!

[@generalistgaming]

Yeah I’m thinking about making a patch review video

[@Drakonak]

After a month extra of 1.8, would you be able to put out a video describing how well or not all your proposed theories in this video held out? EG companies play pattern, etc.

[@SoyPhoenix]

Did the discrimination update rework homelands in some meaningful way? I always found weird how population would just outright refuse assimilation even if it would raise their SoL just because of an arbitrary tag in the state.

[@generalistgaming]

I imagine they can now? If a pop is fully accepted they won't though, and homelands give a bonus to acceptance

[@Chrissnessable]

I’d love to see a Reconstruction guide for USA post-civil war post-1.8

[@jasonquigley2633]

FYI it's pronounced se-far-dim (with the most obvious pronunciation) not se-fara-din.

[@maxsilva11]

It sounded almost like he was accidentally calling them "journey of the faith" in Arabic - سفر الدين (Just a beginner learner so my grammar might be wrong there, but it has that cadence to my ears)

[@amnord7607]

Will you continue your EIC run? I loved your last episode on it

[@generalistgaming]

I'll do at least 4 episodes I think

[@craigstephenson7676]

Can’t wait for the spreadsheet videos

[@connorvic3]

An intrest group is pressured by a movement if 10% of their clout supports it

[@jruss609]

Can anyone give me advice for when to “turn and burn” and go high infamy? I feel like that probably is around 1880s and once you can simultaneously defeat every other GP, but would love to have my understanding checked.

[@generalistgaming]

You don't need to get that strong, but there's also a lot of low infamy expansion that's worthwhile anyway. The correct approach involves juggling and seting up obligations and humiliations so that you don't have to 1vX anyway, and also to do stuff like release Occitania/Hungary to make the GPs weak before turning the corner. The resident WC guy on my discord thinks that it was early 1870s in 1.7, but everything is a bit slower now.

[@jruss609]

@ thanks so much, those are some good pointers and milestones to aim for during my next “try hard” play through!

[@kfoelsch]

Good stuff. Really appreciate the punctuality on this video.

[@generalistgaming]

Glad it was helpful!

[@eduardomelo151]

30:27 I hope Qing don't die from floods like the ming does in eu4

[@jj-ib2id]

Appreciate your victoria 3 videos, I'm trying to get better at the game and your knowledge is really helpful

[@generalistgaming]

Glad to hear it!

[@Deterremus]

There is a nuance with disallowance to work in govetment buildings. With all citizenship laws except multiculturalism pops are banned to work in middle and upper strata positions in goverment buildings if their acceptence rate is below 40. On Multiculturalism, however, any pop can work at any building. So, right now, if you want Forbidden City to work properly as an european, you either need to enact Cultural Exclusion + Total Separation wich gives you 20+15 acceptence, plus you have +10 acceptence for han culture in Beijing from homeland bonus, or you justr enact Multiculturalism. I am personaly thinking that right now first setup is better, cose you still got depressed wages for not fully accepted cultures, plus it easIer to accomplish by tech perspective, especially for Russia.

[@generalistgaming]

I think this might be true, unless multi+religion is better

[@dima9171]

What might be the best take away out of this, is that you are NOT SURE about a lot of things, which actually means that finally there is not one optimal way to play the game, but multiple, which is good for this game.

[@generalistgaming]

This more significantly overhauls the metagame than any other patch I think

[@couruu]

"It is easier to pass Ethnostate after passing Multiculturalism" Paradox endorsing accelerationism? Interesting

[@Croweyboi]

hey can u do a short video on hiw to manage the intrest groups to bolster and suppress and how to build the groups up u want to pass the laws u want need help?

[@generalistgaming]

My confidence in how well I understand these systems is relatively low

[@jaredprather8060]

Doesn't Sinosphere also work for the "dual" assimilation affect?

[@generalistgaming]

Not sure, someone said they checked the game files and that there was only the one

[@whitefang20]

I get the religion law blocking that power bloc but I don’t like that republics can’t form sovereign empire

[@generalistgaming]

I mean tbf they lack a sovereign, and vassal spamming is to some extent antithetical to republican ideals

[@dearg_doom]

Sephardim is pronounced "seh-faar-dim"

[@TeloMovies]

thank you for your insight!

[@Ezoghulable]

So i'm very new to this game, I've never played this game or Vic2 and I started a week ago durning free weekend. I started USA and got civil war, afterwards there was this event form which one mission was to increase afroamericans acceptance to 80 i belive. I checked victoria wikipedia how to do this and the guide said I have to pass Cultural Exclusion and it would be done. I've passed this law yet still this mission was not done... Now I know that this guide is outdated for this patch and I have no idea how to get them to main culture

[@generalistgaming]

It seems that you need to pass multiculturalism now, which is considerably harder

[@Ezoghulable]

@@generalistgaming yeah, pretty much (?) impossible for early-to-mid game as I have to have large labour party (? forgot the name) support, which seems really hard to achieve early on

[@Keztraz]

What? Generalist Gaming promoting national supr. ? Dont let twitter hear that! xD Thanks for the video, it helped alot

[@generalistgaming]

These days Twitter might not mind 😂

[@donaldpetersen2382]

Went 25+ years without a single chance to downsize into bankruptcy and couldn't change parties in government due to 25 years strait of revolutions. Great patch /s

[@generalistgaming]

I think that very high taxes is out

[@GertGurty]

These new migration changes are really annoying . If i wanna play isolationist japan i dont want randoms discriminated pops coming in because of high sol. Migration controls should work on international migration as well, like before. Doesnt bode well for people who want to roleplay and not minmax the game.

[@generalistgaming]

Just don't enable migration controls? Edit: Your migration law will still apply, so if you keep closed borders and discriminate other pops can't enter.

[@GertGurty]

​@@generalistgaming that is true but it also disallows internal migration which kinda sucks.. I did a test run with the belgium for fun (still learning the game) and i had 5% indian cultures in flanders in 1850 with migration controls. Normally i dont mind but if i wanna be an ethnostate/isolationist state its weird you cant keep discriminated pops out (beneath 60 acceptance) while still allowing internal migration for non discriminated pops(above 60 acceptance) like before.

[@ChrisIanThompson]

​@GertGurty closed borders doesn't stop internal migration as far as I'm aware. It's serfdom/tenant farmers that block.

[@GertGurty]

​@@ChrisIanThompson could you explain? bc as far as im aware tenant farmers blocks peasants from migrating and closed borders blocks all migration even from state to state. But i might be wrong. I started playing again for the first time since release so it might have been reworked

[@ChrisIanThompson]

@GertGurty its not well worded in the tool tip but I'm quite certain closed borders will still allow internal migration. Last Japan game I had closed borders and migration to Hokkaido.

[@jonw7214]

How do you get them to give you a bankroll?

[@generalistgaming]

It's not very good, but it's a diplo sway you can use if they country you're swaying fills the requirements

[@jonw7214]

@@generalistgaming I ended up seeing you do it on a video and figured it out. I thought there was a way outside of war to get bankrolls

[@lamename2010]

Private health care did have a PB political strength boost before that. Public healthcare is still better because of the SoL increase for everyone. The upper strata makes up only a small percentage of the population after all. I dunno how they could have done it otherwise, but it should have had an SoL increase for everyone beyond a certain wealth threshold. So basically, high enough SoL gives even higher SoL.

[@lamename2010]

Speaking of upper Strata and PB, it makes so little sense to combine the two, considering PB pops mostly come from the middle strata, not the upper strata. Very strange and honestly just feels like an attempt at buffing PB, when it used to be so very hard to get them out of marginalized. Conversely at game start, prussia now starts with PB as the strongest IG, so they might be able to drop this weird buff for them in private healthcare.

[@generalistgaming]

A product of OPB agitating for the PB for a while now I suspect

[@lamename2010]

​@@generalistgaming Most certainly, I went from seeing PB barely struggle out of marginalized in 1.0 or so, when playing as prussia, to starting the game with them as the strongest IG in the most recent update. They have had to consistently buff PB clout generation for a while now.

[@kalakamu1]

hello generalist, I would like to bring to your attention the fact that vic 3 devs keep stealing things from HMPS without crediting them :(

[@generalistgaming]

I don't know what HMPS means

[@sebastienfiol5494]

Thanks u for your work

[@generalistgaming]

My pleasure!

[@theankios1202]

"Let's humanise them" 🤔

[@ehk5948]

Oh that just ended. lol

[@generalistgaming]

I forgot to do the outro, and then just decided getting it out faster was better than going back in

[@ehk5948]

@@generalistgaming I was listenin to you while playing some EU4 and thought my internet cut out at fist.

[@WasanChannel]

I’m in 1900s now and no option to abolish slavery.

[@Pazzystar]

based... 😂

[@adamhicks4359]

I think they are saying once you reach the 1900’s slavery is so ingrained there is now no point in abolishing it!

[@Hexas87]

As USA I was unable to start a gold company with over 40 gold mines because there wasn't 5 levels available on LF. This game is a joke

[@generalistgaming]

I believe as of now this has been hotfixed

[@floflo1645]

Bro really said jews are the best race 💀

[@blazeburner303]

Wages are dependent on your tax type, if you have a lower strata taxation system like per capita taxation you want high wages to get a lot more tax, when you have upper strata taxation like granulated taxation you want low wages so more money goes into the capitalist’s pockets and thus taxation

[@generalistgaming]

I disagree, I think with the two flat tax systems that are regressive that raising taxes is a lot more dangerous and that with progressive taxes you want to ramp up taxes more.

[@blazeburner303]

@ I was specifically talking about wages, lol

[@carlosfuentes9506]

Is Israel the new OP state since it has Sephardim as primary culture?

[@generalistgaming]

Best religion too

[@davidd.w.8681]

14:20 USA moment

[@generalistgaming]

big oof

[@Claustrophobic69]

Hey, know its not your style, but consider doing shorter videos/shorts

[@generalistgaming]

I'm going to work on some shorter videos, but the roi on shorts is basically nothing if I'm doing PDX stuff

[@Claustrophobic69]

@generalistgaming you're good man

[@thebestdamager7400]

Why are both the "best" religion and the "best" culture jewish? I know it's probably just a coincidence, but still..

[@fraserwilliams4178]

Shut up man

[@camilleyt870]

Clearly it is because they are the people chosen by the God to cleanse the heathens from Promised Land.

[@NB-yu4lj]

@@fraserwilliams4178what a funny reaction you have to a valid question …

[@NB-yu4lj]

It’s a bridge religion , which means they’re very accepting outsiders

[@WhiteGod88]

oy stop noticing things

[@Yagami913]

New companies is a big downgrade imo.

[@generalistgaming]

I don't like them either; I'd love a hotfix rollback

[@WillFleurant]

First