Planetary Imaging Saturn - Two different setups head to head (ASI 224MC Vs ASI 482MC)

[@GarnettLeary]

I slightly prefer the left. It’s more natural in my opinion. I’ve ran into the same wall of decisions across cameras. Ultimately I feel the camera that offers the higher fps is the best choice. The difference between a 65ms and an 30ms exposure is HUGE. As a general rule stay at or above 60fps Saturn is very telling. With its low surface brightness you quickly find your gain in the corner. Which camera maintains the fastest exposure time because that’s the key number. Beating the seeing is goal one. 4000 frames on a rubbish camera can be a lot better than 500 on a superb one and usually is. That being said I’ve been really lazy and haven’t tried my ZWO 174. I believe the 5.9 microns is what has deterred me. It has a global shutter tho and unbelievable speed. I need to do your experiment with this camera. I typically reserve my clear nights for dso lately because I actually shed a lot of planetary gear to acquire the deep sky stuff I needed. I often shot planets with a 5” aperture or less lol. Where aperture is king I refused the logic anyway. I personally felt like the bigger scopes gave me less opportunities. I’m magnifying bad seeing 80% of the time. At a point the longer focal lengths were unusable. That happens. I’d venture to say the general rule of x5 the microns is actually x3 for most. In that respect less of a magnification and a deeper ROI typically beat the alternative in my experience. Ultimately I feel like the seeing dictates 90% of quality. Maybe more. That’s my take on it. Watch the barometric pressure. 30 + and climbing is a good sign. So is fog strangely. Reading a book on meteorology is more beneficial than a planetary thesis in this game.

[@OlliesSpace]

Thanks Garnett it's always good to hear tips on this from you and guys who have more experience with planetary. Also good info on the fps, I think I was at around 50fps from memory. Exposure time is interesting too. I've read people recommending to stay at 70% gain? I think I would need to do especially on the x3 Barlow to be at 60fps. Cheers again for the tips Garnett, hope to see some of your DSO soon mate. Clear skies. Oh and my partner agrees with you she liked the natural look of the left one. I think I over processed the 482 data.

[@GarnettLeary]

Got to get above 60 fps. It’s not unusual for folks to have their gain in the corner. It seems unnatural to do it and counterproductive but losing frame rate is far worse. Ideally you would image Saturn in 2-3 minute intervals for hours and then derotate in WinJupos. Once you’re doing that gain is far less an issue. Even the folks on the C14’s are ramping gain. On a side note what’s really appealing is a global shutter over a rolling one. That curtain effect makes you lose frames to distortion. Overall tho you can seriously beat yourself up for months wondering what you can do better and it be the seeing the whole time. You’re probably hitting all the right buttons it’s just not that magical moment. If you ever got to see the planets near the equator somewhere where there isn’t a bunch of atmosphere you’d be mind blown. It’s that big a factor. What DSO guys consider a good night of seeing could easily be trash for planetary guys. That’s gospel. Promise you.

[@OlliesSpace]

@GarnettLeary Thanks for the info Garnett some very interesting points. Kinda glad I'm not a full on planetary imager as it sounds quite a job to get a really good image. Very good info though with fps and gain, gonna have a play with this to see how it affects things. 👍👍

[@cristrigotti9933]

Thank you. Very informative!

[@OlliesSpace]

Thanks pal.

[@lainevince]

I have gone the other way regarding pixel size. I prefer the ZWO ASI676 with 2um pixels because it gives me the 5x ratio without the need for extra glass.

[@OlliesSpace]

Ok, what scope are you using?

[@lainevince]

@@OlliesSpace Celestron 9.25, f/10.

[@nikaxstrophotography]

Some nice resolution with the 482 and the celestron Barlow mate nice work

[@OlliesSpace]

Thanks Nik, Ye I think that combo works surprisingly well.

[@dersupra]

I recently got a redcat setup and now am looking at celestron's lol. But when I built my rig I got a 678MM for a guide scope hoping I can use it for planetary when I get a SCT. I need filters and shopping around on a good planetary scope. I'm leaning towards an Edge HD 8. I can not find much information on the 678. I might just have to test it out on some B+W DSO

[@nitrixfox]

Brilliant!

[@OlliesSpace]

Thanks pal 🙏

[@tullyfisher]

Very interesting comparison Ollie. Both are great results with the two setups... I prefer the right one as well. (less "soft", more details in the bands and higher contrast of the Cassini division.) Really cool! Clear skies pal

[@OlliesSpace]

Cheers Michael. I think I'm somewhere in between with the two images. Maybe the colors in the left a little better but ye more detail on right. Clear skies to you too.

[@davehudson5589]

Nice video - thanks. Had never heard of the pixel x barlow = f/ratio formula. Will have to give that a go!

[@OlliesSpace]

Thanks Dave hope it helps a bit.

[@Astronurd]

​@@OlliesSpaceSo by your formula I should be using a 3x barlow with a 224 for my f12 Maksutov? I am deciding if I need the 3x barlow. Thanks 👍.

[@OlliesSpace]

@Astronurd So basically if you go the pixel size of your 224mc x 5 you come out with near 20 and your F12 with a x2 Barlow would be at 24 so this would seem a better match.?

[@Tony-Elliott]

Hi Ollie both images are really good mate , but I think the 482 plus 3 x Barlow just takes top prize

[@OlliesSpace]

Thanks Tony yes surprising that was about 20 mins after I ended the Livestream and got a little pocket of clear.

[@dumpydalekobservatory]

Both very good images Ollie I preferred the one on the right but both turned out very good. The jetstream here in the Uk messes things up here but still good to have a go. Clear skies mate

[@OlliesSpace]

Hey mate. Yes I agree, I'm not really crazy good at least but it's just fun taking planets. Maybe they'll put a Jetstream check box in Autostakkert one day :) Clear skies.

[@LogansAstro]

Both came out really well. The one on the right certainly has more colour band differentiation and does seem a bit sharper, however, from the videos, the seeing certainly seemed quite a bit better despite the wind so with that in mind, the left one came out extremely well considering.

[@OlliesSpace]

Hey Logan - Ye I think they both came out pretty reasonable but the seeing did seem a little better in the right one too. At least with planetary you can grab a couple of mins here and there, my DSO rig was dinging away :)

[@Chorge1972]

I try at the moment an ASI662MC on my ASKAR103 with 700mm native, plus a 2x Barlow. Still thinking about the 715 with its smaller pixels, but I fear that my telescope won’t be able to deliver enough resolution - what do you think?!

[@frackcenturion]

the 482mc is what i need for my rig cheerz ollie 👊👍

[@OlliesSpace]

Ye would be killer with your 180 mak Frack 👍

[@andyrawlins]

Interesting thanks and great pictures. I do think that it is problematic comparing pictures from different nights with clearly different conditions as seeing is so important for planetary. Also, the 224 video looked underexposed to me, compared to the other one. This is surprising as a 3x Barlow (I have the Televue) results in a dimmer/zoomed image. I missed out on Saturn this year as it never stops raining in Sheffield. Have you tried the Registax wavelets replacement programme, Wavesharp? It took me a while to get used to it and it has less features than Registax but does seem to do a better job once you get the hang of it. Plus obviously Autostakkert! 4 is out now. Thanks again :)

[@OlliesSpace]

Hey Andy - I haven't tried that program, will have to take a look. I hear you with the problems comparing the two cameras with different seeing conditions. I have though swapped out the two before on the same night and I always seem to get just a slightly better image with the X3 Barlow and the 482. It must be a sweet spot with the larger pixels and sampling with my setup. It's also a more sensitive camera. I must say the other week I took a visual look at Jupiter with my Barlows and Esprit 120. Although obviously the Celestron gets me closer the crispness of the image thru the Esprit was just super. So sharp. Thanks for watching Pal I'll check out the programs too. 👍

[@craiglowery4427]

Very good video Ollie. I definitely prefer the image on the right. The newest generation of cameras are higher higher resolution and lower noise. I was wondering: do you use an atmospheric dispersion corrector? Lastly how close is your polar alignment? Thank you.

[@OlliesSpace]

Hi Craig and cheers for watching. I've never had a ADC so far but may in the future. Yes my polar alignment is pretty much spot on here. Thanks.

[@s3cretsquirell]

Thanks for video. I'm going to attempt it on my 8se and have picked up a 224mc. Question please, do you connect the Barlow/ camera to the eye piece holder or direct to the telescope? Thanks

[@OlliesSpace]

You can connect it either way, but I often just connect directly to the scope and don't use the Diagonal.

[@s3cretsquirell]

@@OlliesSpace thanks, then I imagine using a finder scope or something to find the planets which is aligned with camera fov is what you do ?

[@OlliesSpace]

Yep my mount is polar aligned so I normally just slew to the object, then use the finder scope to center 👍

[@SimonsAstro]

Wow Ollie! They’re both awesome mate! I’ve just watched Dylan’s vid on Saturn, yours is as good as his mate, and he used an edge HD11 ! I think I preferred the image on the right as it looked like it had more detail (482) but liked the colour of the one on the left (244) both good Ollie 👍 Clear skies mate!

[@OlliesSpace]

Hey Simon yes I think like Garnett said in my comments I think that good seeing really is the biggest factor. I think weirdly I got better seeing on the second image (482) even though it was a challenging night with clouds and wind gusts. Clear skies Simon, hope I'm managing to tempt you the way of the SCT 😉😂👍

[@SimonsAstro]

@@OlliesSpace it’s on the cards Ollie 😀😀

[@OlliesSpace]

@simonsastro 🤫🤫😂

[@Harutjun]

very nice they both looks good, i only managed to make a good picture of jupiter still need to make a good capture / picture of saturn.

[@OlliesSpace]

Yes I'm in a similar boat this year I still haven't images Jupiter yet, hopefully in next couple of weeks. Cheers.

[@Harutjun]

@@OlliesSpace i bought the zwo 224 but its been only rain for 2 months now hopefully I can still get some footage soon

[@vitalieBu]

I have a 12" LX200 SCT with 3048mm of Focal Length. I got a good deal on used ASI224MC for about $70... and I saw that the asi482mc is now for sale at $270. I am wondering if it will be worth upgrading...im at the beginning of this journey. What do you think?

[@OlliesSpace]

@vitalieBu That's a tough one, if you are really into planets probably yes, but you'll most likely need the X3 Barlow to make it a good combo. It works for me because I often use the 224 as a guide camera in my second rig and the 482 gets used as my main planetary camera. Hope this helps a little. Cheers for watching, lovely scope you have a 12 inch Meade.

[@vitalieBu]

​@@OlliesSpaceoh...I forgot to mention I do have a 5-element 3X Barlow from Orion. I think I'm gonna go and get that 482mc...and use the 224mc as well or sell it! Thanks a lot for a quick response. Stay blessed and clear skies!

[@tonyeasley3227]

Do you have a focal reducer on as well

[@OlliesSpace]

No focal reducer on these.

[@myvisionyk9528]

I got myself an ASI 715 MC Color. I recorded a few Videos of Jupiter with very good details. After using Pipp I still had a black white Image and no colors. I tried different Settings with the RGGB and GBRG…. I took The video with ASIcap but I don’t know What I am doing wrong. Any ideas?

[@OlliesSpace]

Hi There. The only thing that occurs to me is maybe your set to Mono when your taking the recording, I know when I use Sharpcap it will sometimes default to Mono in the settings even though I'm using a color camera. Maybe take a look.

[@SimonT65]

Do you always set up in your PJ's? 🤣

[@OlliesSpace]

Ye especially if it's already dark out 😂🤣

[@anata5127]

482 is better. Sharper. Generally, picture for conventional 9.25 SCT is excellent!

[@OlliesSpace]

Thanks there I was pretty happy with this one.