Platform Stance Variations on the Tennis Serve | Federer Does This!

[@DanTuber]

The coil is effectively the same for both sides. It just looks different because you're sending the ball in different directions. Deuce - it goes left of your body. Ad side - it goes right to your body...(for right handers).

[@alberty3372]

I agree. The coil is the difference between the starting position and the ending position. Since the ending position on the deuce side is to the left of the ad side, it makes sense the starting position on the deuce side would be to the left of the ad side (the effect of a smaller gap between the two feet). By using the same gap on the deuce side, you are effectively increasing the coil compared to the ad side, but there is probably a benefit from a consistency standpoint by having a similar amount of coil on both sides. Finally, there are limits to how much coil is optimal for each person, otherwise everyone would strive for the same stance as McEnroe.

[@jacnella2419]

I agree due to logic outlined below by Albert Y. That said as someone relatively new to tennis (2yrs) I'm still exploring little details like in the video and great topic that I was curious about nonetheless. 👌

[@NeuralEngin33r]

The angle of the target determines the starting position of the feet.

[@pier6240]

That's what I was thinking

[@johannesbergstrom9407]

Yes! Came to the comments hoping I was not the only one realizing this basic fact

[@Yiyan81]

Long live Pete Sampras indeed! My no.1 favourite service action of all time! 😍

[@mandalorianjedi2288]

This sort of interesting technique analysis is why I think Nik is the best tennis coach on KZbin. 👍

[@aca99da]

Great video! This may partly explain why I always enjoy serving from the ad side more!

[@Fernwald84]

I think a possible explanation for the difference in the stance foot placement, Nik, is that the serving geometry is different for the ad court than it is for the deuce court. For right handers the chest is at a greater angle from the service box on the deuce side. I think this translates into, optimally, less rotation needed to achieve the same torso angle as occurs on the ad side, hence the difference in foot placement.

[@BigBlackBe4r]

It's all a matter of being right-handed or left-handed. If you have to stand behind a line, and throw an object to the right (as a right-handed person) , you have to move your torso to the right. Vice-versa for lefties. As a pre-teen boy learning, I would use the same wide stance- either on Deuce or Ad- but on the Deuce side, I would go way right from the base line center mark...to my disadvantage strategically of course. 🤔

[@PaulVoorberg]

4:23 - The Key Point 5:24 - Direction of ball depends on angle of racket face, not body position

[@tennisjourney]

Came to learn the Fed way but thanks for rediscovering Pete's Greatest contribution to the game!

[@jianhuiluo]

One thing I think Federer's stance is that his stance is deceptive that he can make slice, kick and flat serve on one stance at right side. So I think Federer's stance is balance between variety of service and power.

[@tennis3605]

I'm really grateful to you! In your comparable analysis there are many answers for preparing one or another service model. Thank you again for the presentation.

[@ReidVV]

You're right. Very interesting. I will try this when I go to my court tonight. Thanks.

[@jezepeachy13]

Wow! This is really eye opening stuff, I've noticed the slight difference in stances in the pros when serving from Ad vs Deuce side, but couldn't really figure out why. Thanks coach Nik your explanation has made it all clear now.

[@Charlie.Robertson]

Really interesting! I have a pinpoint stance myself but I’ve always felt myself changing the angle of my body when I’m serving from the deuce side (I’m right handed) so more of my body is facing the correct service box. I’ve always thought that’s what everyone did and never really given it much thought. Thanks Nik!

[@danielqian8899]

I feel my body is more stable when there is a wider gap between two feet, especially with bent knees and tilt body for kick serve. It didn't occur to me it also helps body coiling before I watched this great video. I will definitely stick to wide gap stance now that I get the echo from the video.

[@Krwler]

Thanks for the upload. I’ve been looking for this vid for a while after seeing a preview on instagram

[@PaulFit-mk5ur]

Completely agree with you Nick. Extremely good analysis !

[@IntuitiveTennis]

🙏

[@johnyeung7643]

Agree 100%. I am 52 years old. Started playing again after 30 years because my boys playing high school tennis. I used to use the McEnroe stance. Then changed to pointing feet 45 degrees towards the right post. I recently started doing exactly what you do. Way more power. Also use a very low toss like Curren and Ivanesic. I actually bring the racquet straight up but delay my toss just a little like Goran does. My toss and windup a combination of Goran and Curren. I find if I slow down the toss just a little. My racquet will be right there and I can smash ball right at peak with very little ball drop. I don’t hesitate. Once the toss goes I swing right away

[@IgorBobyrev]

Thank you, just today will be trying this type of serve!

[@efont81]

Great video, I thought about this recently and actually searched for this topic and found you. Thanks for your help coach!!! Long live pistol Pete!!

[@dimcorner]

If you think of coil as degrees of rotation between start and direction ball will be traveling then it should be close on both sides with the different alignments. Assuming your shoulders are the baseline then serving to ad is say about 45 degrees counter clockwise from your trophy position. What I think happens is the whole setup is rotated CCW to realign your shoulder to the same coil degrees of sweep on the deuce side. I guess sometimes people change their foot spacing for that but I don't. My feet stay the same separation front to back and left to right, it just rotated a little. This lets you keep one basic serve motions for both sides, otherwise you have 2 fundamental different serves because the extra coil on one side can mess with your timing / toss.

[@PrecisionPointTennis]

Super cool. Thank you!!! I’m gonna try it tomorrow

[@stevebeck3141]

Great vid as always Nik! Thank you.

[@p_a_o_7658]

I can totally understand that both serves (ad, due) should have the same wide distance between both feet. But shouldnt the angle of the feet in relation to the court should be different? I m thinking maybe it s the camera angle that make the distance of the feet or the chest turn different in Fed, Raonic, Nole?

[@rsm0600]

👏

[@benwyman2177]

Do you think the apparent difference in front foot-back foot stagger between deuce serve and ad serve is due to the angle at which you're viewing rather than due to a true difference in stagger? From the ad side, our typical camera angle is 90 degrees to the angle of the front foot. However, from the deuce side, our typical camera angle is ~ 120 degrees to the angle of the front foot. Therefore, the foot stagger will appear less but may not actually be less. If one were to move the camera to the right and rotate it 30 degrees counterclockwise, the stagger will actually be the same (at least it is on my serve). A different way to analyze this would be to measure the actual distance between your front heel and back toes on both an ad serve and deuce serve.

[@SevenDragonsSoul]

It's how the coil contributes to the topspin. Compare deuce and ad side serves where you position yourself targeting the middle of your side service line. From that target point, if you want to serve to the left of it (i.e. down the T on the ad or wide on deuce), you have less space on the ad side and more on deuce - so you would be better off having more topspin on the ad side and hence more coil there, hence the stance on the ad side would be more turned clockwise. If you want to serve to the right of that target, this is less relevant as you will be making less coil anyway. This is what appears to happen to Pete's serve after you take into account the camera's angle of view. After counting in the camera angle issue, this is also very clear for Raonic, less so for Djoko and almost none for Fed.

[@rimawihone]

Thank you for the specifics - Pete Sampras fan too

[@hehehehehahahaha2025]

Hey Nick, isn't it mostly just due to the angle of your feet? On the deuce side, your feet are more pointed towards the net post, whereas on the ad side your feet are more parallel with the baseline. If you look at Federer or Raonic, I think they still get the same or nearly same amount of coiling on both the ad & deuce side, they're just angled less parallel with the baseline on the deuce side.

[@p_a_o_7658]

I think so to

[@alvisedoria7782]

I think that, for a right-handed player, serving on the AD side with a wide base is easier because, despite the huge coil, you keep looking at the court ( in my case, the problem is the toss that should be a little bit further to the right while on the Deuce side the tendency is to toss the ball more to the left ). On the contrary, on the Deuce side you have the tendency to look at the fence so in order to keep a better contact with the court you unconciously reduce the body rotation.

[@lcervantes8505]

Pete style appears to also stop shoulder rotation more precisely square to the court creating more snap and limiting possible over-rotation. The same foot position both sides may be part of his regimen to hit the different serves from the same position, whereas some coaches teach different foot alignment for the various serves.

[@PeterDMayr]

The angles are not the same. In fact, I think that the deuce position you show (same as on the ad court/wide stance and high spread) is too closed and possibly hinders the velocity of a wide serve on the deuce court. One can mitigate with the traditional stance by adding side spin, but that slows down the serve. Of course, spin on the deuce court is sometimes desirable if one is right handed. I know coil imparts velocity too, but in what direction is it imparted? I guess it depends what you want and if your knees can take the pivoting and the pounding) (age). Good video! Questioning the status quo is good sometimes.

[@pierre-marc.gareau]

But Nick, what about "eye dominance" that Mouratoglou talks about? Federer is supposedly left eye dominant, that's why he can coil a lot on his serve because he's still able to see the court. That's why with the same stance and coil Djokovic is not as effective because he's known to be right eye dominant. I'd love to hear your opinion about that topic in an upcoming video! Thanks Nick!

[@BigBlackBe4r]

It's all a matter of being right-handed or left-handed. If you have to stand behind a line, and throw an object to the right (as a right-handed person) , you have to move your torso to the right. Vice-versa for lefties. As a pre-teen boy learning, I would use the same wide stance- either on Deuce or Ad- but on the Deuce side, I would go way right from the base line center mark...to my disadvantage strategically of course. 🤔

[@mb-shadow-f2v]

one thing i have not heard mentioned is which eye is dominant. for left eye dominant/right hand servers they will be comfortable in a much more sideways position to the court. right eye dominant/righties will be more comfortable with a less wide stance that faces the court more squarely.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

Nonsense

[@charlespaniszyn]

1.) Most serves are NOT aces. So the server has to deal with the returned ball. Landing more awkwardly out of a big return from ATP players may mean sacrificing some rotational motion to be in a controlled position to handle a big return. 2.) Knee injury. Landing on a left leg where the knee has to stop the upper body rotation certainly means more rotational force being exerted on the knee. (I hope your let knee holds up.) 3. Deeper back bend the of upper body on the deuce court at the end of the take back can mean more force forward into a somersault motion. This can compensate for any lost rotational energy, and have you landing on your left leg in a more controlled landing to handle the return. It also means less rotational force on your left knee, saving you from knee injury.

[@TadeuszKamieniak]

nice video U have discovered something as worthy as Einstain

[@harryherman5371]

Elite observation

[@stevegarret7500]

Nick, could you comment on the weight distribution of your feet on lift off for the platform serve? Should it be equally distributed between from leg and back leg?

[@jingotrades]

Do you struggle to hit the wide serve from the deuce side now? This is sth I struggle with when I try to keep the stance the same. Ty for all the content!

[@IntuitiveTennis]

I’m not too comfortable with it yet…

[@FMD023]

Pete also served his first as fast as his second serve. That was his advantage.

[@ProfessorBoooty]

I had the same problem. I cant do a same motion on both sides and struggle. My balls go to the ad side and I feel jammed. On the Ad side I feel relax and no tension. Do u have some drills that help to transfer ur Ad side serve stance and toss to deuce side?

[@ColBol7]

Do the left handers do left handers do this as well? Are the sides reversed?

[@johnnyrockets10]

im actually about to go the opposite direction (I grew up playing with the Sampras approach). These days (mid 30s), I find it really hard to get momentum through the court with that much coil and I end up falling to the side and losing my rhythm

[@gabrielalcocer8051]

I think you’d need a more 3-D analysis to make this observation, but to your point, I do think more of us need work on our deuce side coil, well done.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

😂 I don’t need 3 D analysis to know how my feet are positioned

[@ProfessorBoooty]

@@IntuitiveTennis your serve must be scientifically proven. And your serve with close and wide stance is measured by radar by British scientists=)

[@cesarfernandezlopez2209]

Let's give it a go then👍🏻🎾

[@secondserve3213]

Hey Nik I am really enjoying and in the same time learning tremendously with your videos, but it would be even so much better if you could provide the link for the video you mention during the lesson (this time it would be the platform vs pinpoint)! Keep your great work! Appreciated.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXaqZ52Fft6CsJI

[@secondserve3213]

I meant on the description, but thank you for this, too!

[@Welcomelatet]

Yesterday i discovered ❤️ this and today am see it .coincidence.

[@Anton.Arkhipov]

If you truly get better serve by coiling more on the deuce side, you can do the same on ad side, set up more rotated, coil more... a-la McEnroe))

[@andrewmoseley4029]

Long live Pistol Pete! Here here 🍻

[@opencurtin]

shouldnt the toes of the foot face the net post as a reference for a club player ?

[@nachogodoy1789]

Love Pete serve.

[@meahall]

Another benefit of the "coil" where players turn away from the court is that it makes the serve harder to read. At least in my experience in trying it and receiving it. Of course, the more you "coil" and turn away, the bigger chance you have of messing up your timing... there's always a choice!

[@mayurinaskar5237]

Hello...I do follow your tutorials quiet often,and I enjoy watching your teaching style. One question ...I am 24 right now can I play tennis just for fun? Many of my friends said its not possible to serve in tennis at this age you may get injured badly...i am demotivated after hearing this...can u clarify about this thing?

[@IntuitiveTennis]

You can learn to serve at any age

[@mayurinaskar5237]

@@IntuitiveTennis Thank you...this means a lot 😁👍

[@boudhaimbachir173]

I started serving at 28 (but i used to play tennis before) and im quite good at it now :)

[@mayurinaskar5237]

@@boudhaimbachir173 That's great ... 😍

[@cesarfernandezlopez2209]

I'm 48 for God sake , 😂😂😂 of course you can

[@PhilipFlanaganTDDC]

I understand why it would be better to have the same wide stance on the deuce and ad sides but I am worried that this will put more stress on the body specifically the left (landing) knee. I’m 54, and when I play a lot that knee tends to hurt a little afterwards already

[@patrickrogersiegismund2785]

The additional coil can indeed add a tremendous amount of power to the serve. Still, I think this wider stance rather suits higher level players. Most recreational level players will have difficulties to come out of this coil.

[@giampierobittarelli7379]

Cool analysis. Its not a mental block though, its a visual issue that players may face by facing the back fence more. In my opinion as a coach i think the trade off may be not good enough to coil so much. Personally ive tried it and does not work for me. Accuracy is way better with slightly less coil and still fast enough. For your serve i would say load a bit more with the right leg as your left leg seems to do almost all the work. Lovely serve though

[@EduardoPlatais]

You're such a tennis nerd!! hahaha Great perception, though. I was wondering how this would apply to a pinpoint stance serve. Would it make any difference at all, since by the time of contact both feet are placed together?

[@yili9725]

i checked your shoulder/chest rotation, I don't find you rotate more on shoulder/chest even your stance is more apart. meaning... you are more used to closer stance and stance apart won't add more power. it's all psychological.

[@drbonesshow1]

If you tried the Step-back Platform Stance on either the deuce or ad side you would have more serve power.

[@amirt.2225]

You are wrong about the gap of raonic a d Federer. Its the same for both sides they are just standing turned more to a different angle in each side

[@sebastian.serban]

I'll have to disagree on this one. The distance between the feet appears different only because the camera angle is different. If you look towards to where the ball is going you will get the same distance between the feet. I think Nick is actually now keeping the feet more apart on the deuce serve than on the ad, if you look from the correct angle.

[@p_a_o_7658]

Agreed

[@IntuitiveTennis]

I observed this with my eyeballs. No cameras 👀

[@sebastian.serban]

@@IntuitiveTennis Fair enough, but then it would have been interesting to use a camera angle (for you serves, at least) that goes through the motion of the racquet/direction of the ball or at least towards the middle of the targeted service box. Regardless of this, I really like your videos, best in the business! I'm very grateful for the knowledge you're sharing with us.

[@farid1406]

That may be true in some cases but Pete's stance is undeniably just as wide on both sides, whereas the others at the very least look like they're closer which means they are at least a bit closer.

[@ernie8117]

Nick, nice discovery. I was researching serve stances and stumble into this. But on the stances - pinpoint and platform, which are regular so far, I noticed that some players has adopted a third stance which is stepping in with the left foot and then the right foot to hit the ball. Don't know what that stance is called but it seems to be very powerful setup. I noticed this in men doubles players like Mate Pavic and John Pee, and a former Japanese player - Takao Suzuki. Watch this : kzbin.info/www/bejne/r32YZoSspJmqea8 and this : kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXu6p313h96kd68 - ffwd to 2:44. Would love your take on this. Thanks.

[@IntuitiveTennis]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXaqZ52Fft6CsJI

[@drzoltanvajo142]

Hi Nik, can't compare Federer and Sampras directly: Roger starts on his front foot and Pete starts on his back foot! Fairly different serving techniques, requiring different stances. Cheers, keep the vids coming!

[@tonypham6649]

Still haven't seen anyone comment about this, but man you sound exactly like Medvedev.

[@toonsoffun5733]

Can't hear any resemblance in rhetoric or accent between Medvedev and Nick. Not sure what you are smoking.

[@LunarEclipsism1]

@@toonsoffun5733 he's talking about the effort noise they make while hitting. Not the way they speak.

[@Javi_C]

👍

[@janne-mans8295]

As compensation, Sampras has his back foot turned less on deuce side

[@georgegl3192]

Interestingly Goran, had a "negative" stance, i.e., the backfoot was in front of the frontfoot. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmGYn3WPmZuFgJo

[@parisashirzad4496]

😍😍

[@audencaby6545]

Sheesh

[@dejpsyd0421]

Add a dampener...and tell Fed to also! 😁

[@TheBronzika]

Long live Pete! The second best only to grandpa Roger! 🎉

[@farid1406]

We can't compare. Fed - King of the 00s, Pistol - King of the 90s

[@awaedin]

Intuitive tennis is a great tennis coach but it looks like geometry isn't his strong point

[@NeuralEngin33r]

nope, nope, nope