Plato | Parmenides - Full audiobook with accompanying text (AudioEbook)

Рет қаралды 15,945

Lewis Kirk

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 75

@richardsantomauro6947 6 күн бұрын

The reading is as impressive as the dialog itself. Thank you!

@lewiskirk8289 5 күн бұрын

You’re very welcome! Glad you enjoyed the reading 👍

@saltech3444 Жыл бұрын

I am writing a novel about Ancient Greece, set just after the death of Plato. Since one of the characters is a Platonist, I was reading the Parmenides, which is reputed to be nearly unreadable, even in the original Greek. I got pretty excited when I read the Second Antinomy (142 to 157a). I suddenly realised that I understood what Plato was saying. I immediately wrote a scene in my novel in which the character explains what I understood to Philip of Macedon. Since then I have found academic articles that, to my chagrin, seem to show that I was not alone in my insight. The same basic idea has been spotted before. Nevertheless I still get excited when I read the Parmenides, because I do think that the vast majority of academics do not understand how important the Antinomies of the Parmenides are, or how they relate to what little we know of the Unwritten Doctrines. The best book on the Unwritten Doctrines in English is Kramer's Plato And The Origin Of Metaphysics, sadly badly written and even more badly translated into English. In this book, early testimonies from ancient authors are gathered together to reconstruct pitiful remnants of Plato's Unwritten Doctrines. One of these Doctrines is that the One is the source of all the Forms, which it creates by the admixture of two principles, the Great and the Small. I think that if you read the Second Antinomy of the Parmenides, and combine it with clues as to the Unwritten Doctrines, you get a sense of the true meaning of the book. It only seems confusing until you realise that Plato's point is that, if you posit an ABSOLUTE unity in the form of the One, then it must ipso facto be subject to multiple contradictory features (absolute oneness and absolute multiplicity, absolute existence and absolute nonexistence etc etc). This is not a weakness; it is the whole point of the One. I think Plato, thinking about the absolute One posited by the real philosopher Parmenides, saw the contradictions inherent in trying to comprehend the One as being, rather than a problem, instead the very source of its power. At the end of the Second Antinomy (156-157a) Parmenides says casually that the One, since it possesses stillness and movement, oneness and multiplicity, and bigness and smallness, must participate in the Instant (in Greek, the Exaiphnes). Since no object can, in the real world, move and not-move at the same time, the transformation of an object from a state of stillness to a state of motion (say, kicking a football) must occur outside ordinary reality; and in fact such transformation is actually proof of the interaction of the Instant with the real world. The Second Antinomy ends with Parmenides casually saying something like: "And this is why the One can be both moving and stationary, single and multiple, big and small. It does so by participating in the Instant". I believe Plato deliberately cuts off the Antinomy at this point to preserve the Unwritten Doctrine; because the next thing Parmenides SHOULD be saying is: "And the One can exist ONLY at the Instant; and the occurance of apparent change in real-world objects is actually the One at work, handling the creation, transformation and destruction of all things in the universe. None of this would occur if it were not for the One residing solely at the Instant. The One is responsible for all Forms; and it creates, transforms and destroys all things, in accordance with its natural virtue, using as its tools the Big and the Small." I think that is the intended meaning of the second half of the Parmenides, and an explanation for why it is so confusing. If you are aware of ancient testimonies of the Unwritten Doctrines, then you can see how the Antinomies are intended to demonstrate how the One exists and operates, without giving too much away to the layperson.

@lewiskirk8289 Жыл бұрын

I look forward to reading your book when it’s finished. As you point out, there were many different layers and ways to read Plato. It’s never ending!

@saltech3444 Жыл бұрын

I find that my reading of the Parmenides was already spotted by Martin Heidegger in the 19th century! "Being is change - change is the instant - the instant is without time - therefore being is without time." And he is referring here specifically to the Second Antinomy. So yes, I was far from the first to spot this.

@kilims 5 ай бұрын

پ۹۹ج۹۹نن۹۹۹نت😊۹

@kilims 5 ай бұрын

@fadinglightsarefading 5 ай бұрын

@@saltech3444 What does 'change is the instant' mean? I assume instant means an infinitesimal moment, so like a unit of time without-time, but if that is so, should change not rather be a series of instances rather than instance by itself, or how do you mean?

@augustineopara2887 Жыл бұрын

Oh my God I just found the origin of being qua being in the metaphysics of Martin Heidegger. Unlike other dialogues I have read so far, I would say without mincing words that this is pure metaphysics. Thank you so so much brother.

@lewiskirk8289 Жыл бұрын

You are most welcome. This one needs combing through many times. Nice and slowly. Such a wonderful dialogue 🙏

@DemonicCollusion 3 жыл бұрын

This never ceases being new and interesting. Thanks for your reading, friend

@lewiskirk8289 3 жыл бұрын

You are welcome 🙏

@2tehnik 3 жыл бұрын

Man that's crazy.

@garethsmith3036 2 жыл бұрын

I'm eighteen minutes in and I am astonished that plato wrote this

@TheDirolo 2 ай бұрын

9:30 Theory of Forms questioned by Parmenides 12:00 Can a form be shared and be in many places while still being the ONE in all those places? No, it would be a part of that form, not the original unique form. 14:36 Introduction to the problem of the Third Man argument. 18:43 The forms are not in us, therefore they are unknowable. 22:00 The forms have no influence on our world, nor do we have any influence on theirs. 24:34 Train yourself in this way of reflecting.

@lewiskirk8289 2 ай бұрын

👍

@marzh05 2 жыл бұрын

Reconciling the absolute and relative perspective, one may come to the conclusion of a conscious universe. Universal Law of mentalism.

@jackdarby2168 3 жыл бұрын

Parmenides is metaphysical dialogue. Plato is a Pythagorean( those tendencies show themselves in Timaeus). A prose piece can be found in Aristotle's Metaphysics which the essence of all the Platonic dialogues is contained.

@lewiskirk8289 3 жыл бұрын

The Parmenides is very interesting. And very difficult to read and follow. Where can that passage be found in the metaphysics?

@jackdarby2168 3 жыл бұрын

@@lewiskirk8289 boom one, part 6

@lewiskirk8289 3 жыл бұрын

🙏

@tj-co9go 22 күн бұрын

@@lewiskirk8289it is easy to follow, but you just need to listen to and read a lot of commentaries before it lol being generally aware of Greek philosophy and its methods is useful

@Ikechukwu-n7y 26 күн бұрын

This is absolutely beautiful

@lewiskirk8289 25 күн бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it 🙏

@tj-co9go 22 күн бұрын

43:30 crazy argument and crazy result, my mind is blown

@camildumitrescu3703 Жыл бұрын

"But perhaps Miss Judith Butler would be most likely to engage us, from a few thousands years away, one of the best and brightest, the very excellent. Gender, you say, it has finally come to that. Sounds very complicated, please lead us, Old, ahead." :P

@tirig6346 3 жыл бұрын

Very similar to the Tao, Plato' s One is.

@2msvalkyrie529 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent reading.! I tried it once . Much more difficult than it appears ie. throat goes dry / speak too slow / too fast / voice goes up an octave / breathing too heavily ......etc It was a nightmare..!

@paideia-e9u 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for posting. This is the hardest and most challenging dialogue to understand. Need all the help from God. Paideia Society

@lewiskirk8289 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Alexander. I’m happy to find another lover of wisdom and one who appreciates Plato! You are very welcome. What is he Paideia Society? You can find my email in the about page if you would like to jump over to email and discuss things further. 🙏

@drwfair3131 11 ай бұрын

Thank you Lewis, very difficult and yet somehow so intuitive. Superbly read...

@SimonEkendahl 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, this is great!🙏🏻

@lewiskirk8289 3 жыл бұрын

You're welcome! Not many people appreciate the Parmenides. 🙏

@SimonEkendahl 3 жыл бұрын

@@lewiskirk8289 This is actually my first time getting into it. Philosophy is a rather recent interest of mine, but it has quickly grown to a passion. Studying philosophy has really helped me in some recent difficult times and still does. Well I am thankful for the upload, I will enjoy diving into it! Take care

@PhosphorusThoth 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for posting this

@lewiskirk8289 3 жыл бұрын

You are welcome. Thank you for appreciating it. 🙏

@IPursuePeppers-CTH Жыл бұрын

35:23 this is insane, stumbling across this would confuse any random person. unless you knew what you were looking at of course

@lewiskirk8289 Жыл бұрын

Tell us more…

@IPursuePeppers-CTH Жыл бұрын

@@lewiskirk8289 i could listen to hours and hours of these writings

@lewiskirk8289 Жыл бұрын

It’s a good job that all of the dialogues are in the Platonic dialogue playlist then 😜 happy listening 🙏

@JakobVirgil 3 жыл бұрын

Great reading, great voice, I particularly like your accent,

@lewiskirk8289 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Glad you like the reading.

@JakobVirgil 3 жыл бұрын

@@lewiskirk8289 I mean it didn't make a lick of sense but you made it an enjoyable listen.

@aisforamerica2185 Жыл бұрын

Gosh... I'll be back after graduate school.

@williambudden7066 Жыл бұрын

Thank you 🙏🏾

@lewiskirk8289 Жыл бұрын

You are very welcome 🙏

@mhdfrb9971 2 жыл бұрын

I wish you can add Malay or Indonesian subtitle.. I'm sure the views will be skyrocket :)

@Iyht 2 жыл бұрын

The craziest part is that someone thought this from beginning to the end, and that Plato never wrote his dialogues but this were notes of his students.

@Michael-Hammerschmidt Жыл бұрын

I think you may be confusing Aristotle's surviving works with Plato's dialogues. Aristotle's works are composed of the synthesis of his student's lecture notes, but Plato's dialogues were all written by Plato himself.

@David-ck3gv Жыл бұрын

That is incorrect. Socrates never wrote, and Plato wrote all of his dialogues. See the comment before mine

@caselbravo 2 жыл бұрын

Thank u 🕊️

@lewiskirk8289 2 жыл бұрын

You are welcome 🙏

@jonathanmoore5619 2 жыл бұрын

Lee you have a great reading voice, thank you for this. I wonder if you've heard of a book called After Virtue? A very difficult to read but I think you would do it justice.

@lewiskirk8289 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve not heard of it but will look it up. Thanks for the suggestion 👍

@jonathanmoore5619 2 жыл бұрын

@@lewiskirk8289 After Virtue Book by Alasdair MacIntyre. Right up your street.