Platoon Tactics: Peak Squad Gameplay or Irrelevant Trash?

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Күн бұрын

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@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

What do you guys think? What did you find yourself agreeing with, and disagreeing with? What are some alternative ways to think about coordinating attacks in Squad? Discuss!

@joosepjagomagi2536 3 ай бұрын

Funny to see you make a video about this. For a long time now I have been thinking about getting together a few SLs and put team level strategy into play in pub games. My hypothesis is that it would work wonders against an unorganised team. Sadly haven't had the time to organize it yet. Maybe you have already used it in pubs?

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

I've had the chance to put some real team strategy into play with the 7th's events, and also when we get a good number of quality SLs in pubs. It goes a long way towards ensuring victory against an unorganized team. When it's two organized teams fighting, it's a very hard fight.

@AdmiralpedersonLP 3 ай бұрын

@@joosepjagomagi2536 iam quite experienced squadlead i would say, and id like to join

@v0t0ms-zl1vq 3 ай бұрын

@@joosepjagomagi2536 Over the past two to three years, I have used similar strategies and tactics on Chinese servers to win numerous matches. However, the methods in the books are not always effective. The playing style of Chinese players is often very aggressive and risky, requiring me to adjust my approach. For example, I might need to flexibly position my squad members to gather intelligence or ambush enemy vehicles or INFs, task organize multiple squads for an anti-armor ambush, promptly inform certain SLs to stop their risky actions, or lure enemies into traps (Sometimes these tactics do not work because SLs do not fully follow the orders. This could be due to minor details I overlooked when making decisions, which allow them to successfully avoid danger. However, many times they get caught in dangerous tunnel vision, ignoring orders and leading to devastating consequences). Additionally, the performance of players, particularly SLs and other key role players, fluctuates during certain periods (such as free-play weeks), affecting the effectiveness of these strategies and tactics. Overall, based on my experience on Chinese servers, for these strategies and tactics to succeed, squad leaders need to have a fundamentally shared understanding and be willing to communicate, coordinate, and synchronize.

@v0t0ms-zl1vq 3 ай бұрын

@@joosepjagomagi2536 Note: The situations I mentioned typically occur in random matches. However, in matches where the squad leaders play well, these strategies often produce good results.

@originalpastaman5470 3 ай бұрын

I feel like the commanders role should've always been viewed as a defacto platoon leader, even back when playing Project Reality. But that guy is usually delegated to UAV and off map support and nothing else. Not saying he should be a micro manager but he should be the guy that can unify a basic gameplan for the whole team and then work to deconflict communications once the shooting starts. You just never see that though. - Side note, my favorite part of Squad is when I need help and the nearest squad is too busy doing a "commando" or "recon" mission to help my squad do something like capture a point or take out a HAB. Always fun.

@joosepjagomagi2536 3 ай бұрын

A long time ago I used to play commander and lead teams. Worked amazing when the squad leads trusted me and followed the plan. Nothing like seeing 3 squad pile on a point after artillery from the UAV. However as the time got on less and less squad leaders seem to be willing to trust a random guy giving them orders so now I no longer bother. Way more fun leading a squad with people who listen than trying to coordinate a team who doesn't. I can kick bad squad mates but uncooperating squad leads will just ruin your mood

@UEemperor 3 ай бұрын

@@joosepjagomagi2536 Its exactly that. Squads community has degenerated into a mess of solo battlefield players. No wonder people dont step up to lead such a community.

@reimuhakurei2123 3 ай бұрын

Project Reality commanders are rare usually its just a role for UAV spotting and other support abilities like area attack mortar/artillery or marks and waypoints

@egorkhristov2467 2 ай бұрын

Used to SL and CMD a lot pre-ICO, but sadly too many good players (on individual level) left the game after and didn’t come back. I still lead randoms on occasion, but levels of play are just incomparable with what I enjoyed pre-ICO. And CMD is just utterly frustrating with new SL’s not even trying to coordinate on anything but who goes to back cap. And combined arms? Over the last year armor mains have been the most obnoxious and toxic bunch of degenerates I have ever encountered. Can at best name 2-3 guys I’ve met who have been active on the comms when it comes to coordination with infantry.

@segster3923 2 ай бұрын

I've always found it impossible to effectively command when also running as a squad leader. Maybe I'll hop on today and try and function as the platoon leader!

@popeye_r_fr099 3 ай бұрын

Hey Dance, former French squad leader here. I found your YT channel a couple weeks ago, and I can’t tell you how much this series is interesting helpful and great. Thanks for that. I put the link of this playlist in our discord to talk about Real life infantry combat behavior and squad tactics and I think have this quality of explanation about it in videos like yours is a nice tool to have. So one more time, thanks so much for your work, it’s really appreciated.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Hey man - really appreciate your comment! I hope you and your buds enjoy the videos!

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Also, please feel free to connect with me on discord

@nightowl6837 3 ай бұрын

A good way I've tried to explain the importance of attacking FOBs is describing the Control Point as a bucket of water. Enemy spawn points are faucets consistently keeping the bucket full. What many Squad Leaders try to do is poke holes in the bucket to drain the water (attacking the Control Point), however, because the faucets are still active, the bucket will never be empty.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Great analogy!

@UEemperor 3 ай бұрын

Which is one of the biggest problems in squad imo. Squad has come to be less about the tactics, or teamwork, or individual skill even, and more about the fob placement and its defense/maintenance. If you have a "faucet" running infinitely, you are always in an advantageous position.

@jellybellyboothang 3 ай бұрын

@@UEemperor squad is a real time strategy game disguised as a first person shooter

@NEXUSIX-T9 3 ай бұрын

Excellent video. I would love to watch a video of you commanding, with a voice over of you talking through your process.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@piratewhoisquiet Ай бұрын

SECONDED

@IvanKolyada 3 ай бұрын

Usually, there are two methods of implementing platoon tactics: 1. You are blessed with ultra rare mix of randoms, who are willing to play as a team. 2. You assemble your clan in public server, and just pubstomp. Second option is unfortunately way too prevalent.

@youngbloodbear9662 2 ай бұрын

Unfortunately?

@shawnkim3733 2 ай бұрын

ROK army prior-service drill instructor here! Good to meet fellow 친구 ㅎㅎ. Hope to play with ya. Love ur content :)

@HaebyungDance 2 ай бұрын

ㅎㅎ thanks man! Really cool that you enjoy my content ^^

@MrBeattBox 3 ай бұрын

Well executed video, simple yet informative

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@space_artist_4real138 3 ай бұрын

When I saw "Main Effort, Supportive Effort and Reserves" I immediately thought NO WAY, we are going there huh. This is the kind of notions that ISW discusses when giving daily updates on the war in Ukraine lol. Ofc in Squad I don't expect it to be as large scale as the real use case, but still. Huh, technically the squads backcapping are reserves in Squad I guess. BTW for those wondering what's going on with the war since frontlines in Ukraine don't seem to move in many places yet there's still fighting, see 8:50, this is the "elastic barrier" in action (Russia's Doctrine term). One side attacks, they take a lot of unoccupied ground quickly towards the other side. Then the enemy assembles their forces and counter attacks to retake the lost ground. When frontlines don't move from day to day on a battlefield while there's still significant fighting, it's not that armies sit on their butt while vaguely shooting in each other's direction, it's that neither can decisively hold the ground they take when they attack/counter attack. It's a constant push and pull on the battlefield and it's very exhausting and demanding on the soldiers. From what I understand, maneuver warfare is when large advances reshape the dynamic of the battlefield and territory at scale. And positional warfare is what I think we see RN where it is small incremental advances. IDK if these notions can be applied to Squad 🤔 Meanwhile in Helldivers 2... What is clearly a RPG with Tandem warheads is in fact an NLAW with cluster munitions Karl Gustav with HEAT munitions is in fact a Tandem Round (super high pen, tiny explosion radius) Javelin targeting is utterly broken, as effective as MK14 torpedoes NLAW acts like a RPG Tandem round.. HUH???

@ziegenmopp811 3 ай бұрын

Thx for your videos. Now we need a video about the tactics of using light and heavy vehicles and about their interaction with infantry.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

It’s an important topic!

@NINTHSKULL 3 ай бұрын

There needs to be a basic approach that is standard operating procedure. My idea for this is to approach strategy as a fractal of CQB SOPs depending on the level of size. We know that if a FT is going to clear a building, the point man makes the call to go in left, and #2 goes right, #3 goes left So... When FTA takes contact, FTB should automatically go right, FTC should go left When Squad 1 goes in on the attack objective left or center, Squad 2 should automatically take right, Squad 3 take left While this is more simplistic than reality, it would get the ball rolling with a basic theme that can be varied on as needed, currently the squads do not operate relative to each other unless you really get talking in command chat, which is not always happening even on 7th. This would also be a foundation of squads knowing what to do and where to go without so much discussion.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Yeah and that’s the value of drills! It’s just important for the squad lead to then adapt his squad’s movements to the situation.

@ItJustDre 3 ай бұрын

One thing I see from most matches in squad is that infantry and armor do their own thing rather than work together.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Definitely true

@piratewhoisquiet Ай бұрын

This is such good content on this topic bro, seriously if not the best then top level for sure!

@HaebyungDance Ай бұрын

Thank you!

@col.kernel 3 ай бұрын

Shouts out my boy Spitfir369. Also love the edit @ 8:16

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

It’s the legend himself!

@tomkmb4120 3 ай бұрын

Criminal that this doesn't have more views. Great content man.

@RonanMeade12 3 ай бұрын

Just found your channel and subscribed. Videos of v high quality. Keep it up

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@jonlannister345 Ай бұрын

In my experience in Post Scriptum even if it's a server full of run and gun guys, if your team has two good quad leaders, even if only half of each squad is actually listening to commands, your team is still going to win against a whole enemy team with just one good squad leader or none. If the enemy team has a good commander but none of his squads are listening to him you might still have a harder time though, depending if his logi team is doing its job

@Bayle-s9e 3 ай бұрын

Comment for the algo. Love your stuff, keep it up.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@S3ZHUR 3 ай бұрын

21:54 Attempting to push on the eastern side and getting wiped? The surviving squad needs to bunker down and fix the enemy while the support and reserves flank (can't remember if that road is in defilade, so they might need to go a little further west and use the tree line). My 2c.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

All good factors - if we consider some of the topics we talked about today another factor is timing. Mistiming the transition so that it’s not a coordinated push on the left would make an otherwise strong attack fail.

@tedarcher9120 2 ай бұрын

Easiest way to coordinate an attack for me is to mark the jumping off points for each squad in assault range, then let squads fight their way to them then drop artillery, smoke and make an assault at the same time

@Lucas-qk8lc 2 ай бұрын

Squad does not encourage battle planning and excellency when it comes to life-like tactics and coordination (for the most common situations in game). The main culprit is very easy to identify: powerful respawn mechanics. Organization takes time to develop. In squad, that means the enemy is running towards you like headless chickens and disrupting your plan before you get to execute it. If somehow you manage to eliminate them and proceed to execute your plan, you will fight an endless wave of respawning enemies, usually ending in your demise unless you 1: proxy the hab very quickly or 2: have such a dominant position that you can farm enemy respawns. That is the main problem when it comes to testing the effectiveness of any tactic or battle drill in squad. The game is so fast paced and the meta is determined by the respawn mechanics more than actual tactics and coordination. The battlefield dynamics in squad are unrealistic to say the least. If you seize any position in squad that is not the enemy HAB or FOB itself, you will most definitely fight the same enemies again, except this time they are fresh on ammo, could have called reinforcements and your element is getting hit at the same time you tried reorienting and reorganizing for another push.

@Lucas-qk8lc 2 ай бұрын

Thus, the most effective tactics in squad come down to HAB placements. The constant flow of infantry is extremely powerful. Tactics and battle drills or variations thereof can still be performed at a conceptual degree as long as there are respawns to ensure constant pressure to counter the enemy’s quick respawns. However, they are not encouraged at the techincal and more realistic degree. Especially when it comes down to larger troop formations where everything takes more time to develop.

@HaebyungDance 2 ай бұрын

I think the best way to approach the employment of tactics is basic, high level concepts. Stuff like sending a group to flank, or designating a main and support effort, which can be done on the fly and doesn’t require planning so much as communication.

@Lucas-qk8lc 2 ай бұрын

@@HaebyungDance Definitely, but the application of techniques and squad movements have to be adapted to the fast pace of squad. If you take ground at a realistic pace, enemies are moving at 5x the speed. Thus, you will (many times) be shut down by their endless “reserves”. That’s why I originally wrote my comment. Squad does not encourage anything more than general attack vectors and coordination/timing between squads. Actual implementation of tactics takes more time than an aggressive blob push. Survivability of your squad is not a huge deal, so aggressive behavior is encouraged. Time spent is time the enemy is using to gain ground, find your force, and use their “reserve” power to out pressure your force.

@HaebyungDance 2 ай бұрын

@@Lucas-qk8lc Having proper position/fire support and maneuvering can be quite decisive when it comes to the outcomes of firefights, which will change the outcome of a game. I agree that Squad's respawn mechanics create less realistic outcomes, but I disagree that survivability doesn't matter. A squad needs to stay alive in order to be most effective. Every respawn is a "reset" that reverses previous progress made, so the optimal way to play is to never die in the first place. A respawn simply allows for a rapid follow-on, hence why in this video I characterize them as reserves.

@Lucas-qk8lc 2 ай бұрын

@@HaebyungDance Perhaps my wording was too aggressive. Positioning and survivability matters to a certain degree, but pacing must be fast to mitigate the effectiveness of enemy “reserves”. I’m not saying these things don’t matter at all, I’m saying that they must be adapted for squad’s battlefield dynamics.

@joosepjagomagi2536 3 ай бұрын

Does anyone know if there is a place to theory craft for squad? I'd like to get some back and forth discussion but KZbin comments aren't the best place for it. I'd imagine that if anyone would know about a place like this it would be Dance's viewers

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

You could try and strike up a conversation in my channel discord, though it tends to be quiet maybe that’s just what it needs

@joosepjagomagi2536 3 ай бұрын

The discord link on your KZbin channel has expired

@gagelloyd655 3 ай бұрын

That Harju game from the footage was great. It’s too bad we lost.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Yeah man I was sad after that one lol

@shmeepicus 3 ай бұрын

The closest defeat in Vanilla I've had, personally.

@space_artist_4real138 3 ай бұрын

(First comment got eaten by YT??) When I saw "Main Effort, Supportive Effort and Reserves" I immediately thought NO WAY, we are going there. This is the kind of notions that ISW discusses when giving daily updates on the war in Eastern Europe lol. Ofc in Squad I don't expect it to be as large scale as the real use case, but still. Also maybe backcap squads and squads that dig up FOBs in the backlines can be considered reserve, they can be deployed if the initiative is gained and an opportunity to push further arises? Although I don't see that very often. BTW for those wondering what's going on with the war in Europe since frontlines don't seem to move in many places yet there's still fighting, see 8:50, this is pretty much the "elastic barrier" in action (RUS Doctrine term). One side attacks, they take a lot of unoccupied ground quickly towards the other side. Then the enemy assembles their forces and counter attacks to retake the lost ground. When frontlines seemingly don't move from day to day on a battlefield but there's still fighting, it's in fact a constant push and pull.

@gustavopedroso2715 3 ай бұрын

Excellent video. I would love to watch a video of you commanding, with a voice over of you talking through your process. ²

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Maybe one day ;)

@destroyerimo Ай бұрын

that ending is mean!

@HaebyungDance Ай бұрын

Pop!

@joosepjagomagi2536 3 ай бұрын

What do you mean by "this transition" in your question at 22:00? How could the attackers ruin their own transition or how could they best take advantage of the defenders transition?

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Making the transition from focusong on the right flank, to focusing on the left flank. What mistake could they make that makes that switch ineffective?

@joosepjagomagi2536 3 ай бұрын

From my experience: doing the transition slowly and gradually. Having people spawn in one by one and head to the left flank instead of pushing together. If defenders spot reinforcements running to the left side it isn't too hard to figure out that the main effort is shifting. However if defenders spot 10 attackers going to reinforce an attack on a "secondary axis" they'll just know that their fucked a little sooner.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

@joosepjagomagi2536 nailed it. It’s the timing.

@moshethepirate1428 3 ай бұрын

The mistake was your arrows marking the left "flank" attacking across the open field instead of up the hedgerow west. Idk why on multiple examples you drew green arrows across open fields with no cover/concealment. Just constructive criticism.

@tugman5345 3 ай бұрын

best notification

@Someone-lr6gu 3 ай бұрын

21:58 I'd say it's flanking fire in the open from the counter-attack on teh right.

@HaebyungDance 3 ай бұрын

Rather than what the enemy could do to the friendly team, what about a mistake the attacking team could make that could make the otherwise good plan fail?