PlayStation PC Changes

[@ReforgeGaming]

LIVE DISCUSSION - kzbin.infoyBTAMCfYoFw

[@josephthompson4310]

This is delusional thinking to believe that pc players will potentially move to PS if they make their systems as powerful as a higher end pc. People buy pcs because of the sheer amount of games that are available on pc that arent on consoles, people also buy pcs because of mods, cheaper games, not having to pay to play online as well as other uses for a pc which arent achievable on a console, the console market is stagnet and it will stay so because consoles can only offer so much unless which what i expect xbox to be doing where they make their next console a pc/console hybrid which allows for platforms like valve and streamlined access to mouse and keyboard than i could see console sales start to increase again

[@nathsabari97]

as a pc gamer 1 year wait for the definitive edition of the game is fine, so many games to play on PC

[@iiRolltide]

I just started pc gaming within the last year and it’s crazy the access to game I have now. Before I would just buy both consoles but that’s dead now. Yea I’ll wait for the ps games for sure

[@nathsabari97]

@@iiRolltide Right? There is so many games and always sales and stuff going around and then there are those live service games.

[@spiceking9701]

More people having access to games will never make me angry. If they want to do day and date, fine by me. If they want to continue with this current strategy, that's fine too.

[@ReforgeGaming]

i just want the quality to be unaffected, that is more important to me

[@spiceking9701]

@ReforgeGaming that's understandable, just got to the part where you mention a potential quality drop if they do day and date and I hadn't considered that lol

[@BoltonGaming]

@@ReforgeGaming if they do day and date, they should allow more time for the devs to cook.

[@stewarde17]

sony make it money off 3rd party if you give away exclusive the console has no purpose and they loss massive amount of money because people buy on other platforms.

[@ZoomGears]

I think the idea of converting PC players to console is futile. Sure, some PC players do convert but only because it would defy all laws of probability if none did at all. What’s really happening is Sony is trying to mitigate the conversion of console players to PC. I think Sony is walking a tightrope where they want PC sales as close to day and date as possible but they don’t want PS users to convert to PC and leave the walled garden that they have crafted over decades. The only benefit to a PlayStation now is price point and ease of use. That’s it. PC does everything else plus more and you get way more games that will never see the light of day on any console. As a result, Sony has to utilize timed exclusivity to kind of fool people into thinking that their exclusives are still exclusives when they’re really not. Or rather, to keep a certain image propped up. Players who buy into PlayStation are still subscribed to the belief that you need Sony’s console to play Sony’s games. And Sony will perpetuate that belief while double dipping into PC at the same time if they can. The vast majority of PS users, the people who still think playing on PC means no TV or controller and having to sit at a desk, won’t care or be affected. They will continue to buy consoles without a second thought. But the enthusiasts who pay attention to gaming news and watch videos like this already know that the jig is up. Gone are the days where you can just put in a game and start playing without a download for every game and an internet connection for a lot of them. Gone are the days where consoles have games that don’t come to PC. The advantages that consoles once held are dwindling. Sony knows this and has to hold back their exclusives from releasing day 1 on PC because they know as soon as they do that their walled garden will start bleeding both current and future users that would have bought a PlayStation.

[@manwithoutmercy]

90% of the time, console players convert to pc

[@severinevans346]

So 30% being new owners we are going to assume are PC players wanting to play sequels huh? Could it not be just kids getting their first console? Could it not just be Xbox console gamers moving over? I think it's more reasonable to assume these 2 things rather than PC gamers moving over to PlayStation.

[@EmissaryTheMessenger]

I agree with this statement. We already see Xbox users changing over because they see no value in their console. Then you have new generations of kids getting a PS5

[@ReforgeGaming]

i never said it was all pc players, but okay, misrepresent what i said, truly compelling

[@TheHatsuma]

The 30% are new players in general. A portion of that percentage are likely PC gamers. And those are likely from larger swath from low 30 series or below. That's the majority of PC gamers. What could cause that percentage to grow even more is GTA6

[@severinevans346]

@@ReforgeGaming You just gave a figure of 30%. You we're talking specifically about PlayStation and their PC strategy. What am I misrepresenting? Your argument would be much more compelling though if Steam was losing monthly active users. Or if PC gaming was declining but that's just not the case. In fact PC gaming is growing at a healthier rate than console gaming is. I can't recall any time in history that's ever been the case before.

[@StraightcheD]

​@@severinevans346out of interest where do I get the figures regarding PC gaming growing more healthily than console side? I know it's a common knowledge but I can never seem to figure out where the quantification comes from.

[@cr0wqu1ll49]

Just finished listening good takes as always. Missed most of the stream today but doing my bit where I can by catching up on the videos.

[@ReforgeGaming]

Welcome back!

[@MTO2089]

The MJ and Black Cat mods will hit my soul in 2025 like very few can. Will be amazing.

[@ReforgeGaming]

lol i hear ya

[@plummleys4514]

being a PC gamer myself and having access to Steam, Epic, GOG, Ubisoft, Battlenet and of course Gamepass Ultimate, i have a wealth of games at my disposal. Its not just the qty and quality, its the fact they are all competing for your money so you get regular discounts. Looking at the current data on Playstations PC titles sales, it appears that leaving it to long to release day and date is having a negative impact on most games released as the window of excitement dwindles the longer the customer waits. It shows Xbox were right to sell on PC day and date and Playstation are just taking longer to follow. Low God of War Ragnarok sales show the wait is too long. Spiderman 2 releasing within a year and a half instead of the 2-3 years prove this.. the wait time has been cut in half! Playstation need that ROI as currently like Spiderman 2, they are not making any profit!!!

[@michaelmooradian4513]

I heard another content creator saying that there were job listings that indicated that Sony was going to make their own launcher for PC but I haven’t found anything.

[@ReforgeGaming]

i think they could certainly do their own launcher to stop giving money to steam

[@kotztotz3530]

Steam takes 30% of every sale. So they lose $18 for every $60 game sold. Eg: If they sell 1 million copies on Steam, they end up losing out on $18 million to Steam. Making your own launcher comes with it's own issues though. Some people are resistant to having another launcher on top of steam, and also the cost of building and sustaining the launcher is (I am guessing) millions of dollars. Sony would have to do a cost-benefit analysis to see if it's really worth it in the long run.

[@revmaillet]

@@kotztotz3530 the more the games sells the less of a percentage steam takes.

[@LakerTriangle]

​@@ReforgeGaminga launcher won't stop Steam sales....CP2077 has a launcher on steam and I believe GTA & RD2 do also.

[@manwithoutmercy]

Helldivers 2 Sold more on PC. As I type this pc is roughly 78% of the current playerbase of the game. Why not go day and date? Having the game for sale on pc when the hype is at its biggest would be beneficially

[@Eggyyolks]

dented

[@TheOfficailTribe]

For some reason I was like damn spiderman just launched then I realized it's over a year old, I'm okay with games going to PC a year plus later I think anything shorter than 1 year is a bit much. The reason why the PSVR 2 didn't sell super well is because it doesn't have many first-party games, and now if you take away first-party game exclusivity, a lot of people will leave the platform.

[@wolfsaints]

There has to be some kind of DLC I mean when they add a new game plus there was that beetle stuff that was in the game accidentally

[@blackfiregaming1318]

Yup hit the nail on the head!!!! Reforge gaming is one hundred percent right!!!

[@TheHatsuma]

This Spiderman 2 PC release feels even more nuanced because Venom's Last Dance and Kraven the Hunter movie are months apart. Sony seems to like to release remasters, remakes, ports, and/or licensed property close to cinematic adaptation or related game release. Synergy Spiderman 2 released near Across Spiderverse as well. I believe 4-5 months apart. Until Dawn Remake? -> Until Dawn Movie Horizon Remaster? -> Lego Horizon Ghost of Tsushima -> Ghost of Yotei and Ghost of Tsushima movie TLOU2 when announced->TLOU HBO S2. My thoughts at least. The main peculiarity imo is not waiting another year to do a PC release when so many catalysts for game sales are nearby. The Two Movies Black Friday PS5 Pro. I figured they'd wait longer. But maybe they did end up axing the DLC and stuffing it into the alleged Venom Standalone and/or Spiderman 3. And why think they continue to do PSN Logins because they're using the profile data to track whether you get PS5 Base or Pro as well as if you get the sequel of those PC ports. That's why even after Helldivers 2 push back, they seem unphased and are doing it with SP games. That's why when individuals tried to claim it's just to boost MAU, it sounded so good. Having high MAU for a game is either important for further monetization and/or data collection. MAUs by itself is not that important of a stat. But the trophy data/psn tell them a tremendous amount of information. Just my thoughts

[@RegalPixelKing]

I think that Sony will eventually have day and date releases sooner rather than later. Originally it was 4+ years to never getting a PC port, than it was cut in half to 2 year and an almost guaranteed PC port, now it's 12 months or less for a PC port. And on PC it often has superior graphical options, better performance, and it was already beta tested by PS players to boot. It's delusional to think that somebody with a high end gaming PC would downgrade to a PlayStation just to play games a few months earlier, and not porting games to PC at all will mean far less money in general and Sony knows this. I believe the biggest reason that Astro Bot didn't receive a native PC port this year is simply because Sony need SOMETHING to call their own for 2024. I think 2025 is a very safe release date for Astro Bot and its possible and even likely that they port is already in the works.

[@stewarde17]

should be 4-8 year port on big titles they should use old to advertise the new.

[@lanceenchainte4890]

Sony has been a showcasing a masterclass on how to balance - value for the consumer, quality, and a steady stream of releases. Their sub service is another revenue funnel that doesn’t suck away money from game sales, and releasing on PC just extends that revenue tail for games. It makes them incredibly stable and allows their developers to do what they know best, making games, while not always having to worry as much as about financing the next game while living off the previous one. Xbox wanted to change the game completely and rush as fast as possible to the next thing. PlayStation has been slow and steady with it. Turtle wins the race.

[@jasonf7983]

Great video

[@ReforgeGaming]

Thanks!

[@mrbdb5670]

The 30% could be Nintendo gamers buying a PlayStation and paying the expensive digital premium prices. They are conditioned to do so and its a familiar ecosystem, a ecosystem where both Sony and Nintendo dictate the prices for digital media. If Steam has a game for 60$, CdKeys may have it for 30$, and then can be activated on Steam. And don't overlook AMD with their upcoming low-mid RDNA 4 FSR 4.0 graphic cards, the price point for a low-mid gpu can be from 200$-500$. what if its cheaper to upgrade ur gpu and have better performance than the ps5 pro as a business AMD has Intel and Nvidia fighting for the low end mid range price per performance, according to Steam statics

[@ahoytyler]

Kinda unrelated but the 30% brand new ecosystem users is a good explanation for WHY Sony has been making a lot of the remakes. While it may be annoying to people who have been hardcore users since PS3/PS4, those people never even got to experience the titles in the first place so playing new versions of them is a decent idea!

[@mattfrancis4569]

UK HERE, prototype game is based for venom game but didnt happen. take care all

[@manwithoutmercy]

That 30% of ps5 owners not having a ps4 isn’t indicative of the pc playerbase. That 30% includes peope with the ps5 as their initial entry into gaming. That 30% includes people with Xbox’s and Nintendo consoles. Buy and large consumers go from console to pc, not the other way around.

[@Broken_Lobo]

My take: - nixxes is working in tandem with devs from the onset or at some point before release so it *seems* like things are moving faster. They’re being more efficient - day and date will not happen on PC so long as 60% of players are on last gen consoles (PS4) - if the player base was “enough”, PC ports would be a rarity but aa costs skyrocket, they need to make cash. Prefer this to mtx slop - i hate the convos on twitter. All emotion with little fact. I agree with your Hulst take - tentpole will never be day and date - the intro of the pro speaks to a commitment to the console base - we need to calm down, “PlayStation nation”

[@ReforgeGaming]

well said

[@Broken_Lobo]

@@ReforgeGaming thanks bro! You keep me informed and I make my own decisions. Not always right but their mine!

[@talieplewis-un3vm]

Sony is a 3rd party platform lets goooooooo!!!!!😂😂😂😂

[@ReforgeGaming]

lol drunk on copium

[@talieplewis-un3vm]

@@ReforgeGaming Sony needs pc😭

[@GiftedGamer204]

im more thsn ok with a year of exclusivity. people act like a year is not a long time but a lot can happen within a year. Value your time!

[@Stogiewise]

Damn, we got spiderman 2 at the end of january and tomb raider remaster in 14 february? February will be a good month for me

[@ReforgeGaming]

niced

[@Cody9375]

Richard Burnish?? what a throwback

[@wodensthrone5215]

They're doing this because only 20% of the ps5 install base bought Spiderman 2, ya'll don't buy games, they're used as debate and argument pieces, thats all. The only gaming company out of the big three that have high attachment rates for hardware and software, is Nintendo, on top of having the most successful system and the best software sales

[@aaronhalsey9717]

I remember saying in a stream a long time ago that I only see day in date with their own launcher. I think PS Apple mentality will convince them they can get people to download a launcher, especially younger gamers.

[@stewarde17]

still be massive loss in revenue unless they could convince people to move away from steam for their 3rd party purchases.

[@aaronhalsey9717]

@@stewarde17 I don't know if it would be a massive loss in revenue because they only make like 30% on every sale on steam and they don't sell that many. So as long as they sold 30% of the units they sold on steam they would break even.

[@stewarde17]

@@aaronhalsey9717 how many 1st party games come out a year? how many multi-platform games come out a year? The platform war is for where people buy those games. Xbox has loss that war that why they peeled to publisher over console. If you don't have the flashy limited edition porsche in the store window your not going get a lot of people to come into your store. exclusives drive sales.

[@Erlaxis]

This is to be expected now that xbox is pretty much out of the console competition. I expect those timed exclusivity windows will continue to shrink if they do not need to be concerned about xbox. I personally don't care about PC at all, so even if the PS games were day and date on PC I would still prefer to buy on PS5, and on disc preferably, than a digital PC license. Now, who knows what plans MS has for a next gen xbox, if they really have a solid console plan for next gen we may see PS reverting to being more conservative in the way they release their exclusives on PC.

[@kevinkijowski5980]

I think its kinda pointless to come to any conclusion about day and date on PC when there's no consistent pattern on PC port timing. SM2 is coming faster, but demons souls and TLOU2 came out in 2020 and are not on PC. TLOU2 even had a PS5 version created earlier this year, yet it's still not on PC. Sony may go day and date one day, but the people that are concluding that it is a definite thing seem to ignore things like Ghost of Yotei being announced only for PS5 despite coming out next year.

[@Jack_Garland78]

"Just get a PC and wait for the PS games"? But... PS is cheaper. And you get the game sooner. Am I naive?

[@Erlaxis]

Not naive at all in my opinion. And even if the games were day and date on PC I would still prefer to get a PS5 disc over a PC license. As long as discs exist on console I will always prefer that option.

[@iiRolltide]

Your right when thinking single console generations for sure but pc gaming for me, as someone who usually bought both consoles every generation, will end up saving me money in the long run because the pc I bought is gonna most likely last me this console generation and maybe the next 2 looking at how games are performing on consoles this generation and I can play everything and you can games way cheaper on pc too. So yea if you only play on one platform then you’re good but if you play both, you should at least entertain the idea of pc gaming.

[@c523jw7]

Worst version of game. They will give you a locked version as well. Which won't run on console down the line unless you buy a remaster. Look at the playstation games on pc they annihilate the console..definitely worth the wait. I will always wait to play the pc version

[@Armed_And_Dangerous]

I don't think it's a set time for games to go to PC I think the games go to PC when the sales of the games slow down on PlayStation 5 That's when they start moving it over to PC Plus Spider-Man is a licensed game they want to make as much money as possible

[@ReforgeGaming]

especially if they stop doing DLC for their biggest titles

[@cmclbloody]

Finally someone reasonable

[@leoparanhos4598]

Well it was because of that i migrated to pc

[@ReforgeGaming]

not a terrible choice

[@Citizen_JV]

I really enjoyed the DLC for the 1st Spiderman Game. I'm disappointed that they won't have DLC for Spiderman 2. Now I have no incentive to play Spiderman 2 again.

[@abemickeygaming7742]

I honestly wouldn't release anything on pc and yall really need to stop acting as if pc is 1 sku. As if theres only 4080s and 4090s out in the wild. Because thats no where near the case

[@ROADKIL80]

Everybody will have a pro by the end of this generation every Xbox player every PC player and that's facts

[@venomfang181]

Console gamers aren’t just going to run to PC just because Sony exclusives are being ported sooner. It’s still a year wait and it’s still an ecosystem not everyone wants to be part of. PC players prefer PC, console players prefer console, the pace at which PS5 games are ported to PC will never change that

[@stewarde17]

tell that to xbox

[@manwithoutmercy]

@@stewarde17their games are lacking so they aren’t in the convo here

[@uptownmurda]

Damn this was the same type of Copium Xbox folk went through. We’ll see you on the other side my brotha.

[@ReforgeGaming]

Lol sure, jan. Xbox earnings calls and CFO remarks were ignored. Sony earnings calls and PlayStation answers to share holders are literally the opposite of what Xbox is doing.

[@uptownmurda]

@@ReforgeGaming hey man it used to be Sony games will never show up to PC to it’ll be every three years to never day and date. I’m just saying. Xbox did it to survive but Sony…all time profits they’re in front…this is just pure greed and profits. See you on the other side baby boy!

[@jonathanwessner3456]

People keep forgetting something in the day and date debate, that Sony showed, previously, that @ HALF of All PC sales are to people who bought the game on PS. So, they would lose sales, not gain them, by going day and date. There is also the rumor that Sony games, at time of PC release, are some of the most pirated games. So, there is little gained by going Day and Date with PS games on PC....

[@ReforgeGaming]

good points

[@LakerTriangle]

Piracy has died down a lot from the golden days...there is so much to play on PC that people just play other things and wait for sales vs risking a crypto virus or other malware.

[@jonathanwessner3456]

@@LakerTriangle 🤣🤣🤣 Which is why they have watch pages for how fast DRM is broken by various uploaders.....

[@LakerTriangle]

@@jonathanwessner3456 I was careful to say "as much" and not it's stopped.

[@jonathanwessner3456]

@@LakerTriangle 🤣🤣🤣 Meanwhile, every metric shows game piracy is on the rise, both as a percentage of gamers and actual numbers, because PC gamers increase year over year. But, don't let the facts get in the way of things.

[@brains84]

They are going to roll the Spider-Man 2 DLCs into a "Miles Morales" size release. Makes sense.

[@ReforgeGaming]

agreed a good theory

[@fgpt4828]

THIRD PARTY = GAMES ON DIFERENT PLATFORMS... PC

[@ReforgeGaming]

Lol k

[@fgpt4828]

@@ReforgeGaming cope

[@the2ndlove]

Spider-Man PC port very cool… No DLC very uncool nuff said

[@ReforgeGaming]

agreed

[@devilshooter126m8]

PS canceling the DLC in favor of a PC Port, is what Pisses me off

[@EmissaryTheMessenger]

It's not necessarily a bad thing, they can now release dlc for both at the same time.

[@devilshooter126m8]

@@EmissaryTheMessenger ??

[@ravenousporo2638]

Unless the PC ports become as good as the console versions, I don't think PS consoles will go away. I love Ghost of Tsushima but the PC port has memory leakage and it doesn't look like it will ever get patched. People say Returnal has memory leakage as well. I just don't want to risk PC ports anymore especially if I have to wait any amount of time.

[@BklynBreedGC]

I honestly don’t care if they go day and date or not. So long as the games are great. The games perform amazing. That’s all I care about.

[@ReforgeGaming]

same

[@stewarde17]

except games will suffer because they will make less revenue not more. publishing is secondary market for sony the bulk there money is made off 3rd party sales on their platform if you don't have exclusives to drive people to your platform people won't buy your platform.

[@stewarde17]

1 year definitely too early. It's going to make people just wait instead of playing on PlayStation. If they are not playing games on PlayStation then they are not buying 3rd party on PlayStation which will lead to less money then what they could gain by putting their big titles on PC. Spiderman and GoW are as big as they get when it comes to system seller exclusives. They are going the wrong way instead of expanding to PC they should be expanding their consoles to other regions.

[@ReforgeGaming]

nobody is jumping or switching cuz one game came after 15 months

[@stewarde17]

@@ReforgeGaming you sure about that because I choose my system by the games that are on it if they made it so pc get those games then I'm jumping to where the games are. These decisions are really giving me pause into jumping into ps6 or even continuing my gaming library on PlayStation.

[@manwithoutmercy]

1 year isn’t too early. Anyone who wanted to play it on a ps5 already did. Now those who weren’t going to buy a ps5 get to play it

[@stewarde17]

@@manwithoutmercy that why it still charting as one top games this year? Games like that continue to sale unless you give it a reason not to. For example GT7, Mario kart, and forza horizon 5 to this day continue to chart even though one them is nearly 10 years old.

[@Zubie2000]

The PS5 Pro makes it harder for even the snobbiest of us PC guys to wait. Why wait when I can get a decent (if far inferior) experience on day one?

[@ReforgeGaming]

exactly

[@ZoomGears]

To me it just makes no sense to shell out $960 (Canada) to play a game that’s eventually coming to PC anyways and like you said it’s an inferior experience so why would I pay over $1000 for that? Sony’s games are good but they’re not so good that I simply can’t wait for the inevitable PC port and must spend $1000+ just to play an inferior version.

[@Zubie2000]

@@ZoomGears That's perfectly fair. This is my hobby where I waste money, so I'm okay with shelling out for the Pro. That said, I haven't ordered one yet.