The One Ring Problem

Let's talk about Universes Beyond, wonky contracts, and a need to eventually reprint things - lest the game become inaccessible.
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#mtg #theonering #commander

[@lordgreystaff6639]

The MTGgoldfish team did make the statement/joke that it doesn’t matter if they can reprint the One Ring or not, it’ll just get power creeped out of the format in a few years anyway. I laughed, then I cried.

[@caseykiesling4348]

It will join the Snapcaster Mage, Bloodbraid Elf book club

[@T_Peazy]

Ban the original everywhere. Make a SLIGHTLY WORSE version.

[@slowlylosingitaaaaaa]

they’re not wrong 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@ellitbo9863]

@@T_Peazy they did that in historic 🤔

[@TheEvolver311]

​@caseykiesling4348 modern won't be fixed until Watchwolf is the premiere threat

[@mymarshlands]

at the very least, The One Ring should've been printed with "you can only have one copy of TOR in your deck"

[@falkster4045]

Would be great flavor-wise

[@Zauzzie]

It should have been printed with the counters going on the player not the ring itself. THat way you can still play 4 but the next one doesn't reset the counters. From a flavor standpoint....The ring rempts you, not itself.

[@simanolastname2399]

​@@Zauzziethis has its downsides. Even if the opponent removes the one ring, your next copy of the one ring will immediately draw you cards. Also means you can't respond to the ring being tapped to prevent the player from drawing cards.

[@Zauzzie]

@@simanolastname2399 that's a completely fair down side and removes the major upside. So yeah they cast another and can tap for more cards turn it's down then die in a turn or 2 from all the damage.

[@Izelor]

@@Zauzzie they could add the clause "You cannot cast a spell named "The One Ring" for the rest of the game. If The One Ring would leave the battlefield, exile it instead.". This way there are no blink shennanigans and having 4 copies of the card would result in dead cards after the first one is played.

[@vengerofthelight]

What kills me is that they HAD the technology to avoid so much of this: alias cards. The Godzilla frame would've prevented most of the problems here.

[@Thisisme61554]

They did know it, but a either the IP holders or Wotc didn't want to have the words of an unrelated card printed on the crossover.

[@silentcalling]

I'VE BEEN LIVID ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS. Every time, *every time* Universes Beyond gets brought up, my number 1 gripe is "they are mechanically unique, with no in-universe equivalent." We *have* a frame for reskin guest cards. They *know* how to use them. *Why* on God's green earth do they not use it for every UB card?

[@Arigal3]

i think is possible to do alias cards still, you can create "the one clip" and be the one ring, and print the same text and change the art, "the one ring" name is not an R or TM name

[@daftwulli6145]

nothing stops wotc from having a functional reprint, new card that does the same thing, call is ring part 2 or whatever.

[@luminous3558]

This is their way to print cards that are "unlikely to get reprinted" and thus rise quickly in price on the secondary market. So instead of having to increase the frequency of reprinting old stuff they can now just print busted new stuff under an IP that will make players buy them "just in case they get more expensive"

[@lostalone9320]

"We printed cards directly into eternal formats so they could be really busted, but now people actually want the busted cards? How could we have predicted this!?" - WOTC

[@TheEvolver311]

Modern has always had pricing issues, WoTC couldn't/wouldn't even reprint their own stuff enough to drive prices down. Perhaps players shouldn't have whinned and cried for a direct to Modern set even though Maro warned that it would forever change the format.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

​@@TheEvolver311 fking no one was asking for direct to modern sets.

[@garak55]

People where crying for modern masters sets, where they reprint cool cards in a draftable environment. I've never seen anyone want a direct to modern set of new cards.

[@TheEvolver311]

@garak55 go watch PK video about the announcement for MH1 or Saffron Olives A victory for the community, we nagged wotc into giving us what we asked for. If I had to sum it up. Go look at prominent forums of the time like MTGSalvation all the threads are about we need new cards designed for Modern. You are simply being a revisionist to say it any other way.

[@Kevin3826]

I hope WOTC goes with the in-universe reprint and call it "Nox Ring" as an antithesis of Sol Ring

[@FelipeASaito]

The Mox Ring. A fusion of a Mox with a Sol Ring

[@MikeSmith-pz2is]

If they do a universes within version of all of these cards then people can essentially run 8 copies in their decks...... that's going to be a problem for some cards....

[@tanith117]

@@FelipeASaito Wasnt that in Thunder Junction?

[@TheTunaSaladin]

@@MikeSmith-pz2isthat’s not how universes within works

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

​@@MikeSmith-pz2is too bad. in universe reprints are required for any of these cards to have ever been acceptable to print in the first place. they had already promised to do that before lord of the rings came out.

[@Pintyhet]

The Two Ring incoming.

[@Pkuall4life]

The other ring

[@Bouillestfu]

The Singular Ring

[@thechestrockfield]

The Zero Ring. It's only available in the bonus slot of Secret Lairs.

[@mrskittles6486]

Wait so when you print powerful cards from a different ip UT cause price issues because it damn near impossible to reprint in later well slap me silly and call me Billy who would have thought

[@ObsessionWithEyes]

The one rong II

[@thekilla1234]

Wait so you're telling me a 4 mana indestructible colourless card that you can put in any deck that makes you basically immune for 1 turn and draws you 10 cards and still hasn't been banned is up to $100? Fuck me, It's unfortunate that my local oracle moved away 2 years ago so I wasn't shocked that this happened.

[@Aigis31]

Where's Thassa's Oracle when you need them the most? 😔

[@TheEvolver311]

It'd be funny if most the content creators didn't think the card was garbo in preview season

[@TheLordSorin]

Man magic used to be good.

[@honestabe411]

@@TheEvolver311maybe don’t watch mouth breathers

[@Andreasws24]

Exactly it's broken, boring garbage. Ban it.

[@Reaprar]

friend of mine was involved in a magic arena survey group, they and the other participants were asked if they would be interested in a universes within version of beyond characters on arena as it's own set. the transformers were depicted as ixalan gnome constructs in the art, the doctors were also there as unique innistrad characters. they all had unique art, too. feels like its just a matter of time.

[@TheEvolver311]

WotC already said eventually every uniquely named UB card will get a UW reprint.

[@Reaprar]

@@TheEvolver311 they went back on that a long time ago. What are they gonna do reprint entire sets? Ah yes this new set is universes within called "Dukes of the circles".

[@TheEvolver311]

@@Reaprar no they specifically said that all UB cards will be available to reprint just that some will be as needed and they will not simply reprint entire sets. But I'd a random AC assassin suddenly blows up and we need more they will print the UW version.

[@Reaprar]

@@TheEvolver311 Mark rosewater specifically said on his blog that he can no longer confirm that they will make any UW versions of cards and that things have changed.

[@TheEvolver311]

@@Reaprar what post? Because I can only find him reaffirming that UB will get selective UW

[@RoachDoggggJR]

The Fourteenth Doctor is significant because he's the only four color doctor commander, which means pairing him with Vislor Turlough or Clara Oswald is the only way to have a WUBRG Doctor deck

[@lordskyline9766]

And making a in universe Version of the doctor is difficult, since there are multiple cards that only work with "time lord" creatures. And I would not be suprised if "time lord" is copyright of the whole dr who ip

[@snakeman830]

@@lordskyline9766 Same issue with the Warhammer decks. "Necron," "Astartes," and "Tyrannid" can't be reprinted, so they will need totally different creature types that WotC says "these are the newnames for those creature types."

[@AldenColeman]

Morophon, the Boundless, is my Oops All Doctors commander.

[@m1gr3nA]

does maskwood nexus + gallifrey stands count as a doctor deck? ;)

[@Nephalem2002]

Or Jodah. Jodah dresses VERY timelord esc when you take a look at him. Looks like a younger regeneration of Rassilon in some ways.

[@GaleOfTheVale]

They could easily skin the one ring as Nicol Bolas' spirit gem

[@krasudreal3948]

But then you will be able to run 8 one rings in your deck

[@M3hillus]

​@@krasudreal3948you cannot, the universes within cards have at the bottom what they equate to, so "Wernog, Rider's chaplain" has R = SLD 347, which is "Will the wise". Rules wise they are the same card, even though there is very little to denote that upon a glance.

[@TheAverageGuyTAG]

Easily the best way to reskin The One Ring. Make it happen, WotC.

[@alkhemia23]

pretty sure they don't even need to do that The one ring not copyrighted just the Art is so they could just use generic ring art and call it good

[@velphidrow8317]

The gem of becoming?

[@styfen]

We've got multiple solutions and all of them stink outside of WotC doing something. a) Suck it up b) Petition WotC to make a 'counts as' card the way they have with other things 3) Hope that WotC sees sense and Bans cards like this from competitive formats because Universes beyond was a daft idea for eternal competitive formats F) everyone in formats that are not competition uses proxies G) Do something that will upset Vince and make him put another video up about it.

[@dubsinthetubs]

There is also option XIV: Start playing checkers

[@freyamiles3718]

@@dubsinthetubs you have my vote

[@czairkolmoslink5952]

Yes we have solutions and Jund saga can easily deal with Ring, but for the health of the modern. It needs a banned

[@SythricDeadith]

Or just make another card with the exact same effect. The rules text on that printing say that a library can only have 2 of them in it and restrict THE ONE RING to 2 copies per deck in all formats. It's not like there aren't a multitude of cards whose only difference is the name

[@davidfields5375]

H: stop playing 3 years ago

[@solcloudchaser4988]

The One Ring Will become public domain in 2032. So in 8 years they can print it as often as they would like.

[@Bluecho4]

So long, of course, as the art doesn't match that of any previous depiction in, say, the films. Because while The One Ring as an object in Tolkien's work would fall into Public Domain, the depictions of it in the films would not because they came out much later. So WotC would need to commission new art (which, admittedly, they would probably do anyway) that doesn't wholly resemble the Peter Jackson version.

[@drpibisback7680]

​​@@Bluecho4The One Ring as depicted in Jackson's version has engraved Elvish text running around it, but the main set Magic version is just completely smooth all around (unlike the version PK shows here). It seems like they already did everything with the intent to make it as "not the Jackson movies" as they could, I believe because they didn't actually have rights to those, just the original LOTR IP.

[@laurentrobitaille2204]

@@drpibisback7680 Would explain why the characters on the cards don’t look like the actors in the movies.

[@Snow_Fire_Flame]

Yes, but also no. WotC will want to remain on good terms with FUTURE licensors for UB. Part of doing that is staying on good terms with their previous licensees. I'm sure WotC would politely ask for permission just to stay on good terms with the Tolkien estate, and to send a signal that they're looking to be long-term partners, not take-the-money-and-run types.

[@solcloudchaser4988]

Tbf, you could name a card the one ring in a future set and have a ring of toadstools or wedding ring or something and still make it work.

[@stevepeter6619]

They’ll reprint it as a Magic-lore (whatever that even is these days, amirite?) reprint like the Street Fighter and stranger things cards, but only sell the reprint as part of a limited Secret Lair set that sells out in first minute, thus only duplicating the problem.

[@FelipeASaito]

They should do an entire Universes Within set that reprints all Universes Beyond cards under MtG skin

[@garak55]

Magic lore is just a clown show at this point. They might as well just have the ub cards in it lol

[@johnrobertson1]

I was starting to write a Secret Lair Masters joke, then you beat me to it. I can’t decide if it will be a $100 box nobody wants or a $500 box nobody can find.

[@Aigis31]

I think the issue you described with Zethi & Chun-Li is really just a case of players remembering the first printing the best. If someone tells me they're playing "Mechagodzilla," I'll have no clue what it does. But if they say they're playing "Hangarback Walker," I'll know exactly what it does because Hangarback Walker was its name upon release. Same thing with Chun-Li. Her name was originally Chun-Li, so when someone says they're playing Chun-Li, I know what card they mean. But when they say they're playing Zethi, I have no clue until I read the card, because that isn't the name I associate with the card since I've spent years playing with and against Chun-Li as Chun-Li. It's hammered into my brain at that point.

[@wickederebus]

I found out about Zethi first, and only learned about Chun-Li when I saw the site was using said Zethi had a sub $1 print and a $15 print and I looked at what the differences were.

[@Shark-Fist]

I think part of the issue is that the Universes Beyond cards were so clearly designed to represent the IP that they hail from. The Ryu card, for example, has Training because the character is obsessed with training to perfect his martial arts, and it uses the untap symbol in its Hadoken ability cost because the direction of the arrow mimics the directional input used to perform the move in Street Fighter. When all of that care and attention is covered up by a coat of Magic-themed paint, at least in my opinion, the result feels soulless and off-putting. Like Zethi only exists as a skinsuit to obscure Chun-Li. She doesn't have any of her own lore and will likely never get a new card in a future set.

[@ty_sylicus]

I always enjoy how long winded Vince is, and he talks so quickly ya don't need to increase the video speed.

[@wickederebus]

nah, I still have to put him at 2x speed.

[@LtPuffin]

Universe Within is great. I really dig the MTG centric art of interesting, mechanically unique cards.

[@japplek]

The mtg universe is about to include 80s slasher film parody universe. I think the mtg universe is sort of dead.

[@Y00bi]

@@japplek Is that a problem for a setting that has a multiverse with infinite possibilities? Kamigawa has neon LEDs and cybernetic enhancements and no one complained about the cyberpunk aesthetic. They most definitely have more contemporary inventions we just never saw them. That's not 'MTG' either.

[@zeppelin7342]

Funny story, I actually didn't even know Zethi was a reskin of a Chun-Li card until I played my first Commander game with my Zethi deck

[@RowanNagy97]

The rules thing that tells you which cards are the same card and not just functional reprints (naming one with say Pithing Needle names both; you can only have four of both total and only one of them in EDH) is the = in the bottom text, for example the =SLD143 on Greymond - the set code for Rick. I'm not saying that's a good system, but it's the "Godzilla frame without having to actually include the trademarked name" system they're working with.

[@al8188]

Who could have predicted that every single obvious outcome would come to pass?

[@RaunienTheFirst]

Absolutely wild that they didn't just use the reskin tech from the Godzilla cards for Universes Beyond. They could even have put the real card name as a card that didnt exist yet as a little tease for players if they needed to get the UB card out first for contractual reasons.

[@TheEvolver311]

Why would you think that they could secure that agreement with other more popular IPs?

[@RaunienTheFirst]

@@TheEvolver311 why would the agreement be about the mechanical text of a card? The licensing is for the names and likenesses

[@TheEvolver311]

@RaunienTheFirst because mechanical functions in set often try to "vibe" with the set. WotC has specifically stated that they will rename UW versions of unique UB mechanics that might require it due to the mechanic name being tied into the IP.

[@Bouillestfu]

Never even thought of the fact that you can't "double up" on a card with it's in-universe version. Trying to explain that to a new player vs every other functional reprint of llanowar elves like elvish mystic is going to be fun...

[@isidoreaerys8745]

This

[@dyne313]

"They wouldn't let them have access to their IP forever" *glares at comic book movie rights*

[@sosukelele]

*Or music licenses for video games*

[@goomshill]

Its a bloody time warp that draws you 9 extra cards. I still don't see how anyone involved in development couldn't see how broken it would be

[@d.w.7203]

They did. They just saw Dollar signs

[@tmdblya]

Proxy with abandon.

[@MattCorrales]

I’m actually shocked they haven’t done a hobbit set and the liscense goes through next year.

[@geezlueaze1951]

Smaug, The Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities 😂

[@falconlord7811]

Genuinely curious why they wouldn’t. LOTR is the best selling set of all time. A hobbit set seems like a logical next step

[@geezlueaze1951]

@@falconlord7811 fr The Hobbit would be amazing 👏

[@aaron.k.]

We already have a reserved list, but what about a second reserved list?

[@shawnpanzegraf5642]

No. The very *last* thing we need is another Reserve List driving card prices up. The *only* factor at all tempering card speculation right now is fear of a rapid double-reprint. You remove that fear, and you’ll bump up everything put on the List by at least 33%.

[@MiserMalicious]

they're doing a joke that these Universe Beyond cards are basically a second Reserved List already

[@AdamJohnson-h3c]

I've got $20 on the One Ring being reprinted as 'Ring of Command' in the next commander masters set.

[@Yabu85]

I didn't even realize that the in-universe reprints are the same instance of a card as the universes beyond version. I figured they were functional reprints like Elvish Mystic is a functional reprint of Llanowar Elves and Fyndhorn Elves. This seems way more complicated than it needs to be.

[@bryanstrahm9961]

I straight up had no idea Rick and Greymond were the same card and in definitely would be one of the players caught off guard by that

[@Aerix]

Still hard to imagine they put foil copies in bundles as promo cards. They made it "easy", in theory, to get ahold of. It is still freakin expensive!

[@vito]

I have no idea why people think Wizards wouldn't just do another Lord of the Rings set. It's their best selling set of all time. There's no way they don't do a follow-up in a few years.

[@jarvvoitlus9458]

When the Walking Dead trash came out, I proxied an in-universe version of Daryl (as the Magic character Halana) because I dislike the Walking Dead and I wanted the effect in my commander deck. Then they made the UW version and I couldn't find it anywhere in my city, and it ended up being a big struggle to find a Hansk, Slayer Zealot. It was a really annoying experience, and that wasn't even for one of the expensive and competitive cards.

[@duplexubiquitary]

I think a full Universes Within reprint set is inevitable.

[@TheEvolver311]

Naw they just use the "guest" slot, you should to look up and read their official announcement for how they will reprint these things. It's not going to be quickly done, it's been about 2 years average so far.

[@duplexubiquitary]

@@TheEvolver311 That is specifically for UB cards printed in Secret Lairs. Mark Rosewater has repeated that numerous times on his blog.

[@TheEvolver311]

@@duplexubiquitaryno he said there will not be a dedicated reprint product for them the official statement says that they will reprint any UB as UW as needed aka the ones that actually are in demand.

[@duplexubiquitary]

@@TheEvolver311He said that right now, it isn’t feasible. My point in saying that it is “inevitable” is that at some point, it will be both feasible and necessary.

[@TheEvolver311]

@duplexubiquitary printing the entire set isn't feasible, specifically said that they will reprint the UW version as needed. We probably won't see a LotR = UW version till after 2026 because that is when the LotR packs will no longer be available on Arena.

[@Freedom6from6religion666]

Simple solution. Print a card named Kenrith’s ring done in the same fashion as the Godzilla cards and the stranger things secret lair

[@JoeyDCote]

Wouldn't that create a problem for competitive decks where you would need 4 copies of The One Ring and 4 copies of Kenrith's Ring? Also, wouldn't you need to rename the mechanic since "the ring tempts you" is an obvious reference to LoR and might lead to some other licensing problems?

[@chim007azo]

⁠@@JoeyDCoteI doubt they argue against the words “tempts you”

[@TheEvolver311]

It's the "the ring..." part Middle-earth enterprises LLC holds a trade mark over the "One Ring"

[@TheEvolver311]

​@@JoeyDCote Go read Maros explanation of how they will handle this.... It's gonna be like the Stranger things SL. Rename the card and rename mechanics. But retain the card ID# which makes it illegal to have 4 one rings + 4 or whatever they rename it to because they will have the same card id #.

[@Currywurst4444]

@@TheEvolver311 But you could play two of each and maybe have two ring bearers.

[@ashemabahumat4173]

Just remake the care with the same effect, but different name and art with the ledger of "original card: one ring" or serial number. They same thing they did with Godzilla and Miku, just in reverse- they're just reprinting an alternate version of their card free of the actual name

[@Confruggy]

That's what they're already doing with Universes Within cards. See the =SLD thing on the bottom? That's a reference to the original collector's number so within the rules it's technically the same card.

[@ashemabahumat4173]

@@Confruggy that's good to know, then the only problem is the frequency at which they do it. Would help drive prices down if they and make the cards more accessible if they did that, but thats pretty unrealistic to expect from them ig

[@manbearpig6025]

Pleasant Kenobi: Wizards can sell this as a draft product in a year Wizards of the coast: he’s cooking. Jot that down.

[@samualbrown56]

Damn you bringing up some great points, as a fairly new player I would have noticed it being a functional reprint but wouldn’t know it’s illegal to use both in a deck, they aren’t the same card! WOTC do have a real mess on their hands with this, very confusing

[@d.w.7203]

As a Veteran Player to a New player. And I am honest and sad here: Get out of this game asap. It is only getting worse from here

[@drakegrandx5914]

Wow, it's almost like regularly including outside IPs into your brand could be damaging in the long term. How shocking.

[@TheEvolver311]

How so, they have a reprint solution already. TOR is still out in the wild LotR booster boxes. Sheoldred is a Standard regular ass magic card that costs $70-90, so it obviously isn't that it's a UB product but that it's a highly demanded card for both competitive and casual formats. No body wants to talk about EDH inflating the cost of cards more and more.

[@meepo4767]

Damaging for who? WOTC is making more money than they ever have

[@d.w.7203]

​@@TheEvolver311 Edh is magic now

[@TheEvolver311]

@d.w.7203 it is certainly a massive segment of the playerbase that people never factor in. Any new card worth a damn in constructed is also in demand for Edh and Edh also incentives the secondary market to push for as high a price as possible since most players are only ever purchasing a individual card once not playsets

[@JackTR21]

Damn, if only someone had mentioned this, perhaps even back during the first universes beyond secret lair.

[@Oz__MTG]

See here the thing. This set recently had a special reprint not too long ago. There’s no reason they’d want to reprint it again after that since technically that special edition one, tanked it’s normal set for a while there. I just hope people understand that these multiverse sets aren’t normal mtg sets and some really good cards in them, have a chance at becoming very expensive. This is very much a thing.

[@Magidex]

The one with the hand is THE only other version besides 001/001, that actually has TEXT on the ring. I got one. It was the cheapest version at the time, at a steal of $37. Fuck my ass, that's good value.

[@honestabe411]

The reason sets don’t come to Arena just has to do with the workload involved in coding all the cards. Plus every standard set they want a mastery, they did an alternate mastery for MH3 but I don’t think they want to compete with themselves more than that

[@Lexen_Rapier]

They need to create in-universe parallels that are easy to recognise. (Create a character that has 15 incarnations - and then people just need to remember X is the Doctor). Or they could go very generic like "Fellowship Company Leader", "Fellowship Wizard", "Fellowship Archer". Things that are easy to remember the mapping of.

[@Abby_Affchen]

Sorry but universes within is a good thing and should be used nore 1. They won't reskin the design constantly for these cards like 5 times they'll do it once and use that printing as future reprints 2. If a player has the universes beyond and within cards in their commander correct them and tell them they can't use both. And guess what? People aren't stupid and would correct their mistake. 3. It'll help people have access to these cards and make the price go down. 4. You can put symbols to indicate these cards have a universe beyond counterpart to lessen confusion. 5. Moxfield and other cards databases already correct universes beyond into their within counterparts 6. Also yes the cards with the IP print will be more expensive cause they are more collectable 7. It takes time for us to learn new names but if you have brain cells it isn't that hard. 8. Putting the cards that see play in formats alot into Master//Reprint sets. Is such a good idea! End of the day it isn't a issue to reprint them with universe within unless the contracts were absolute Garbo but wizards have said that is not the case. Saffron had another L take which isn't a surprise

[@TheAngelRaven]

The issue with the 14th Doc getting an in-Universe version is why the hell would we start having Doctors being a core creature type. Unless they change what he's looking for off the top, it would be weird having an in-Universe card looking for Universes Beyond cards. And I hate the DW cards, so I'm fine without more of it.

[@diosama6659]

Whats worse too is that the bundles are being scalped for an over the top price of $200 dollars when the bundle isnt even worth that price. So there is no winning in trying to get The One Ring.

[@thechestrockfield]

Several people wanted to buy copies from me. Told them I'd ship them for going rate (so better than online prices by 7%) but not my regular discount because I wasn't eager to sell them. They all said no because $50‐55 was too expensive. Really glad I never sold any and still have all 23 (+ any sealed) copies!

[@jessejernigan8001]

"your editor is also confused" got me lol

[@bryanleblanc5648]

Fully agree on Universes Beyond and "in-universe," reskinned cards are much better. It's like when you learn someone's name wrong and keep getting it wrong. It's difficult to unlearn it, and so when you learn the in-universe name much, much later (since they want to give the Beyond version plenty of time to sell), your brain goes "oh it's Rick, I'm not going to read or memorize this" and as a result you just know both cards as Rick forever

[@ArcDragoon]

An additional problem is that it is possible that in the contracts, these IPs were dictated that they couldn't share names like the Godzilla cards. That these had to be entirely unique cards. And that it is further problematic that these currently unique cards have a contract life that WotC/Hasbro has to keep, and that they're not allowed to even print the same cards as a different name like Rick until that portion of the contract's life is expired. Contracts are complicated, and none of us are privy to them.

[@TheForeverRanger]

The card is a staple in two eternal formats. Thankfully in one of them, it is a singleton but it is a very powerful card.

[@d.w.7203]

Proxy everything

[@grin_of_grimmsnarl1333]

I hear LOTR 2 is in the works. Would not surprise me to see it reprinted there. Also a name like "The One Ring" is innocuous enough that it can be reprinted in a Masters/Horizons/Supplemental set with little difficultly. Its also not on the Reserved List, so an original IP "The One Ring" parallel can be printed, as well

[@grin_of_grimmsnarl1333]

If it were "Sauron's Ring of Power" maybe we'd have an argument for it being too contextually unique. But that it's as simple as "The One Ring," makes it quite easy to shoe horn into even the story and thus a Standard set. "The One Ring" could be on a Halo-esque Space Ring plane in the future (creative wordplay allotted.) "The One Ring" could also even see print as a Special Guest/Showcase rare in any given set, really. WotC's proven there's very little rhyme or reason to Bonus Sheet cards, anymore.

[@JohnFromAccounting]

"The One Ring" is copyrighted. WOTC can't just reprint it.

[@grin_of_grimmsnarl1333]

@@JohnFromAccounting They can still move toward a functional reprint

[@alistairetheblu]

11:00 idk how you'd do in-universe Doctors considering their creature type would still need to be "time lord doctor". And that specific creature type matters for a whole bunch of those cards.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Yikes

[@fernandobanda5734]

If they need a creature type that's off-limits they'll just make an in-universe type that's equivalent.

[@anarchond]

2:04 They have made non-IP versions of cards already. The stranger things cards have been reprinted with in-universe versions

[@CarmenCards]

I think they should make thein universe one ring be Chandra and nissa wedding ring, make it a big vorthos celebration

[@ajaxender12]

I'm ambivalent on UB. I like many of the cards and UB sets or precons they've made so far. I don't like issues they have caused and that's almost entirely because most of these problems were avoidable. I also don't like mixing flavor - but I already feel that way about many of Magic's own themes and planes. What irks me is when flavor is unbalanced; when eg most of your deck is 'nice' cards and then you add in an 'evil' feeling card, just because it's good. So... a UB Horizons would be sick. All the flavors, mashed together, in what would surely be a strong as hell limited environment and a chance to make additional flavorful cards for each UB property? Hell yeah, I'm up for that.

[@derekcline950]

I'm so tired of WotC's money grubbing ways

[@dimirjaden]

They are losing money from this not making it, just drives the cards price higher, which again they don't make money aftermarket sales

[@derekcline950]

@dimirjaden This isn't true. They rely on reprints to inflate the value of boxes, particularly of sets that they don't think will sell well. The secondary market absolutely affects their bottom line, even if they pretend it doesn't

[@TheLanach]

But it is so simple to identify the Universes Within Cards! You just have to check the bottom left where it is written in tiny font “=SLD X”, where X is the number of the Secret Lair card, and we all have those memorized, right?

[@RhysticTutor1]

The *One* Ring: * exists * Every Magic player for some reason: “gimme 30, take it or leave it”

[@RhysticTutor1]

Of all the legendary artifacts in the game, it should’ve been hard locked to 1 per deck.

[@nuummite8179]

Yet Annul is only 8 cents.

[@joelowdon1615]

and is also a bad card

[@behemoth9543]

Which is only really playable in Pauper that doesn't have the ring anyway.

[@venkelos6996]

I do get it, but it feels odd to me that they wouldn't be able to reprint THE CARDS THEY ALREADY MADE when they feel like it. Sure, it's Tolkien's IP, but it's Hasbro's product, and while it makes perfect sense they couldn't make more, additional content under the LotR umbrella, without another contract, it seems like they'd get access to the product they have already made whenever they want. They wouldn't be able to make a seventh Gandalf, but the six varieties they already made should be contractually theirs, as much as Tolkien Estate's, to be used again the sane way they already contracted to use it. Then again, I'm dumb, in this kind of stuff, so I don't know.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

Sounds right to me.

[@christopherb501]

6:50 Gotta contemporize them somewhere. Maybe Modern Horizons 4 has new 'MOMteamup" cards and we see one or two with these characters palling with other extant characters.

[@Stefanish]

Remember when Tarmogoyf was 200$ ? Pepperidge farm remembers

[@TheDracoMaritimus]

The printing frequency/availability of the Walking Dead In universe cards were SOO much less than the ones for Stranger Things. I can't remember the exact math, but Stranger things was something like 12.5% chance (to pull in a set booster) to

[@LaserfaceJones]

Fourteen is expensive because he's the only way to put every Doctor in the same deck while staying in-universe.

[@altromonte15]

The Other Ring Same cost and effect as the one ring, with the additional line "if this card is in your deck or sideboard you 'can't have a card called the one ring in your deck or sideboard"

[@Shark-Fist]

They can't print a card that says "The One Ring" on it outside of their contract with the Tolkien estate, that's the problem. It's why all the Universes Within cards have a little line above the artist credit that says "=(original card's collector number)"

[@asgarzigel]

don't give them ideas for even more products... That said, I think Lotr was successful enough that they could strike a deal for reprints later on, but it's of course never guaranteed.

[@kl3r1k3r-7]

I mean if you "need" four copies... For people playing commander it also sucks that people needing playsets sort of increases the prizes as well. Yes they aren't to blame but also they kinda are

[@XxSTEVE559xX]

I bought the bundle for the guaranteed One Ring for $90 bucks. I just so happened to get 2 The One Rings inside of it

[@viyami]

They can always print SLX versions, it's fine. The One Ring is essentially a new Mana Crypt, but with broader format application. They'll let it ride to about $200-300 and then reprint it under a new name. Ragavan was in this boat not long ago, prior to the Multiverse Legends reprint.

[@GM_MorganV]

If universes beyond stuff really strikes me as Reserved List 2.0, in part because they’re legal on other formats. If Universes Beyond was a series of boxed games and draft sets to play against itself it could still popular as its own format w/o being Legacy chase or modern chase cards.

[@tymenvanessen3119]

i totally agreen, the fact that orcs are already a thing within universe since Alpha with Orcish Artillery, means that Orcish Bowmaster shouldn't be a problem. also, maybe they can reprint it with a cost of 1BB instead. that would be a nice reference to Alpha Orcish Artillery. for the 'the One Ring' if they do reprint it, i hope they can do the opposite of what they did with the walking dead cards, and just put the One Ring as name under the in-universe name instead. in a similar frame to those of the godzilla cards.

[@902496]

I've seen this idea before. The biggest issue with it is taking all the disparate cards and putting them together in a draftable environment. The cards are all designed separately from each other with no intention of ever having them interact in a limited environment. If aftermath boosters had been a success, they would be the obvious answer. You don't have to worry about the limited environment if the packs aren't draftable. However, aftermath was an utter failure, and I'm betting assassin's creed won't do well either. Whats likely to happen now, if they do even go with this idea of a universes within masters set, is that not every needed reprint makes it, and it ends up getting spread over multiple sets and possibly even becoming a regular recurring set type, like horizons sets, or returns to ravnica, depending on how many cards need reprinting and how fast the output of UB is moving forward.

[@haydndale402]

i bought the bundle that gave a full art copy of the one ring and the card is now worth £20 more than what i played and i got other strong cards like gandalf

[@__-be1gk]

Problem? What's the problem here? Why would they ever reprint these cards? They stand as permanent advertisement that you have to get your universes beyond sets while they're hot, because you're never going to get a chance at them again, and what if one of the cards becomes a staple? Think of the value! invest, invest, invest!

[@asaffin1]

The reality is that the relentless pursuit of endless growth that led to Universes Beyond has loastardized Magic beyond salvation at this point. Hasbro sold Magic's soul.

[@dyne313]

British Summer heat. What is it up to, 75F?

[@fatefulwaffle]

On the topic of LoTR staples being reprinted, Delighted Halfling and Bowmasters have zero issue as far as I can tell. Orcs and halflings already exist, and the creature types on both cards are not unique to the set. They don't do anything mechanically unique enough to where they would be out of place in a regular magic set. Except amass orcs maybe, but that seems easy to rectify

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Those cards can be reprinted. Samwise or Forth Eorlingas can't. It's a weird situation.

[@Confruggy]

Amass has been done before, it's not a new keyword.They just changed the rulings to name a creature type because before LotR amass specifically meant "amass Zombies".

[@tommasomoro9610]

Universes beyond being a problem is an absolute shocker and literally no one saw it coming

[@d.w.7203]

😂🎉

[@roxashenry8315]

Printer goes brrrrrrrrrrrh

[@chickmagnet8301]

I hadn’t realized that the one ring had gotten so expensive. My play group has gone to allowing proxies and we just have a gentleman’s agreement to keep our power level where it has been. It’s great that wizards is coming out with new products but the game has gotten too expensive and we are just getting flooded with too many new sets constantly.

[@kenniron6313]

My biggest thing is how are they going to reprint The Ring Tempts You mechanically without it feeling ridiculously out of place. They’d have to reprint the entire LotR expansion or have just the most whiplash feeling while drafting/opening product. Imagine opening Modern Horizons and all of a sudden you run into a card telling you to venture into The Undercity

[@colmmacN]

I have both a single copy of The One Ring and the bundle The One Ring. Never ever letting them go.

[@AlienValkyrie]

My worry with Universes Within versions of stuff like Doctor Who, Warhammer and all that is about the way outside IP has been integrated into game mechanics. I'm already not particularly stoked about the fact that the Universes Within versions of The Walking Dead cards still make Walker tokens, and I feel like we'll get the same with creature types like Time Lord or Astartes (if and when we get Warhammer Universes Within). On the one hand, just in terms of flavor; unless Teferi takes up medicine, an in-universe creature that's a Time Lord and a Doctor would probably feel very shoehorned in; and on the other hand, in terms of licensing; did they have the foresight when making the contracts to give themselves the right to keep using the parts of the other IP that's going into the core game rules proper?

[@themorellonomicon2757]

Explain to a new player why they can run Llanowar Elves + Elvish Mystic + Fyndhorn Elves in their commander deck, but not Rick, Steadfast Leader + Greymond, Avacyn's Stalwart without coming across as that one guy that makes up rules on the spot when they're losing challenge

[@Shark-Fist]

To be fair, it is technically printed on the card... in the form of what is essentially fine print above the artist credit, and only on Greymond

[@travisrose2277]

12:24 the term you were looking to differentiate is "functional reprint". It's for two different cards that are functionally exactly the same except name, versus an actual reprint (albeit a different skin) like the in-universe version of Rick.

[@dustin89clanton]

That $100 price tag is insane considering the bundle packs I picked up not long ago paid for themselves before cracking a pack 😵‍💫

[@Stickweasel91]

I sure hope the short-term gains of making a bunch of licensed product outweighs to damage such things do to the longevity of the game and the price of entry into its eternal competitive formats.

[@tomfisher6422]

I like the idea of a Universes within set to make these unique cards available after a period of time.

[@artholomu]

They are probably gonna do a universe beyond chaos limited product using all the licenses that they can reprint

[@vakuzar]

yea, its so unbeliveably confusing. How TF am I supposed to know all the cards that have two versions (a universe beyond vs not)?

[@DraggaRyuu]

Wow, it's almost like nearly all of us who were banging the drum on the re-skinning approach being the logically superior option were right and that Universes Beyond NOT doing it always would be a massive problem due to the issues of IP rights. But everyone seemed to just go along with "Oh, you're just mad they're trying new things!"

[@gamevision1155]

T.o.r did so well , I can see them going back for a 2nd set where they can reprint "the one ring" I mean we get another fresh print every modern horizon of powerful expensive cards like grief and whatnot.

[@natahliazaring5291]

I do think that with the success of the LotR crossover, its also very possible that both parties would be interested in doing more collabs, which could easily include a clause that just lets them print more TOR outside of the crossover products. Like, the tolkien estate is very likely happy with things and it seems unlikely they wouldn't want to make even more money. While ongoing IPs might be less intetested in a long-term partnership, LotR seems like the possible exception.

[@ashole6226]

Yes this is a great idea dude. I’m someone who does not like UB. Unless it’s an IP that fits Magic’s aesthetic like LOTR. Dr.Who and AC are just too different. Would love to play with these cards but I just can’t do it. It looks to wierd for me Universes Within Masters is a great idea. Like a great idea. You’ve cracked the code.

[@keyne444]

Haha jokes on you I first learned of Graymond (and had him too) before Rick ever came to my attention. 😎

[@HCUK677]

I'm a lucky sod and packed the One Ring from the bonus packs for playing prerelease! 🍻

[@MrPiotrV]

the functional reprint "solution" has a glaring problem: people can now have 8 one rings in their decks.

[@ender_lord1202]

One thing you didn't mention is the fact that you can only change the name of a card for universes reprint. Astartes and Dalek are creature types on the cards that you still have to put on these cards if you reprint them. This isn't even something that you can negotiate out in future contracts, wizards already had to comprimise with time lord being two words instead of something like assembly-worker.