INFJs under Stress: The Se Grip

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[@yellow_jacket3260]

I think I personally hold the belief that even though the inferior function can’t be fully intergraded into the conscious, it is still important to use in daily life. For instance I think that using Se for me, helps me stabilize my Ni and Ti, just as much Fe helps me do so. This consist of using basic exercise or doing activities that I find fun or stimulating. I think a lot of INFJ’s hold the belief that Se is a burden on their psyche but I actually quite enjoy Se, its just a function that isn’t as efficient as the others There are also times for me when Se is maladaptive, such as sleeping for prolonged amounts of time, or getting in a comfort zone that stops me from doing productive activities, but overall I don’t want to picture it as a burden

[@StephanieJeanne]

I don't see it as a burden either, but I do struggle with it in certain aspects of life, such as dealing with technology, using tools, and other things outside my own person. Can't tell you how many times I've cut myself chopping vegetables in the kitchen. 😆However exercise or dancing, and things like that, I do fine with. You definitely can't ignore it and function as a human. ✌️

[@TarzanHedgepeth]

Inferior Se has to do with sensory overload. All of that information is FLOODING US, but we desperately want to process it properly and understand it all. It’s like there is no filter, so it’s quite chaotic when it doesn’t have a rhythm or a flow or if it’s sudden. It’s breaking pattern, which means it has to have special attention - and since we’re naturally trying to see where that thing is going or what it means, if it’s constant chaotic information, it’s insanity. We have to put down what we’re doing and really pay attention to it or it is going to attack us hard. We are not weak with Se, at all. It’s that we prefer to analyze what is going on at a deeper level. We’re just not taking things at face value usually. If we are, then we’re in a work mode of some kind wherein we’ve already practiced the pattern and it isn’t necessary to analyze deeply. Then, it is Sense (See, hear, touch), recall the pattern, think for a second to adjust and make sure, delegate the resources or duties to others, then just Go… then Se goes into hyperdrive from the subconscious and you become a MACHINE, more detailed and masterful at the job, second to none. And when you’re in it, you almost disembody and then Ni and Ti start working in hyperdrive and the insights become so clear and vivid and revolutionary (or so it feels in the moment; when you’re recalling it later when you’re done working, for some reason, that insight seems a little like old news and not as actionable for some reason…) Anyway. But if you are busy planning or focusing or learning or doing something that requires constant readjusting of the mental state, such as solving various semi-to-unrelated issues, then Se, ESPECIALLY FROM THE ENVIRONMENT, reveals itself to be a very evil interference. Babbling, stomping, giggling, constant random environmental distractions, silly little things like a computer being slow, the mouse wire getting stuck, a smear on your windshield, a fly landing on you, etc… anything silly and little or big and chaotic DESTROYS motivation and causes irrational anger. Like, irrational to the point of judging yourself, but still willing to blame others, but blaming them and then apologizing and blaming yourself, and then darn near shutting down because the world is being so INCREDIBLY disrespectful right now…. LOL. But, yeah. I know this because I was made to face my shadow at an incredibly young age. My parents made me work from the time I was a zygote. They disciplined me, taught me, trained me, threw me into everything; I was really sweet as a kid, but I was also really smart. So I got physically beat up, and mentally and emotionally every single day of my life for the first 14 years, then the following 4 years I kept up the routine of mastering everything within my grasp… my parents put me into Traditional Taekwondo (the first Korean form that was based on Karate in the early 20th century, NOT the weak Olympic sport) and I did very well…. But I still refused to fight anyone back. I just couldn’t see myself being the monster and making them feel the way they were making me feel. So I just kept taking it, even when I became aware that I could easily defend myself. My parents hated me for that. Anyway… point being… yes, you have Se. It’s there. It’s actually VERY powerful, if you have trained yourself with all of the necessary patterns needed to be able to let go and flow. But if you haven’t gone through the mastery and the training of being extremely skilled at present awareness, I can see how you would struggle to even comprehend why you’re so ruined by chaos… because those things you’re not trained in or those things out of your control don’t have enough context for you, so they produce fear responses and anger responses due to the energy expenditure of having to plot the course of these present things on the fly on TOP of having to make some intense value-judgements that you don’t want to deal with (because chaos is very often caused by other people who are unaware of their impact…) Okay, I’m done. Forgive the poor writing structure, I am done fighting this phone. Every single character you see here as had to be manipulated 3 times due to evil autocorrect, evil devolving swipe tech, a small phone, and blurry eyes. And it’s really grinding my gears. LOL

[@TarzanHedgepeth]

I should say… if you related completely to this, you might be more INTJish… I discovered, finally, that I’m most like the ENTJ. Umm… yeah. So that’s why Se here is child. And I even give the clue in this short thesis: there’s inferior Fi and demon Fe (not defending one’s self as a child, caring too much about the opinions of others…, being a master of skills, but a slave to others… ENTJ - and Si-blind spot - passage of time, not letting the past dictate the future, not eating until I’m dying, Inf Fi and blind Si mean using medicine to solve problems on the fly, not spending the necessary time to care for self, and I don’t know it until I’m dying… because of Te hero service to others, Ni goals, Se fun instead of Fi self-service…) I told you I hated Fi. And that is the tidal wave that keeps coming up for ENTJs and ENFJs - Service to others, neglects self until dead, others judge you while you’re rotting even though they used you up; did they help solve your problems like you solved theirs? No, they didn’t, they’re healthy, they served themselves… so Fi-Ti “me identity me reasons” is piling up right next to Si screaming “HELP ME!!!”

[@snipergaming2639]

Lately I've fallen into the grip of inferior SE, due to prolonged stress from both work environments and family settings. I never realised that it was the repression of the dominant functions which caused the emergence of the inferior ones. I have been repressing my true inner feelings for quite some time, so this makes a lot of sense. I really ought to learn more about Jungian theory. BTW, I completely agree with your analogy about Beth Harmon from the queens-gambit, as she exhibits a lot of traits of a classical IN type in the grip of SE. This was really helpful content and I learned a lot from this, so keep up the good work!!!

[@juice_lime5114]

Inferior Se is actually pretty high-powered, but with very little control. In the cognitive stack of preference, INFJs would often act readily when being moved by a direction given by others (Fe). In contrast, they contemplate (Ti mode) until near the last minute before acting under pressure, which actually does surprisingly well despite their annoyance. But yea, INFJs actually function pretty well under pressure. They feel clumsy and powerless with Se despite still being able to project it in a positive manner, and actually want to be better with it. For example, I really want to get that thrill of being in a flow state, despite being so damn hard to achieve with current life circumstances. Not sure with how to explain this, despite knowing it very clearly in my head after the entire year of self-discovery... About the shadow stack, my personal understanding was solidifying further that it was something that would never be actively projected. It's something that an individual reacts towards, with either rejection or helpless acceptance. For me, the blindspot (7th) or "missing" function is the most readily identifiable for introverts, and tertiary for extraverts as it would always be projected in a more childlike manner when they are relaxed. Somehow, I find it easier to identify weaknesses than strengths. Inferior functions are typically harder to identify, because not everyone would easily reveal their clumsy inferior function.

[@Elodie_N_INTJ_Analyzes]

Very good explanation of what really stress is. I think our 4th function will always be weak, and never really integrated, the capacity of this function will always be low, the amount of sensory-type information we can process will always be limited. (Our functions have capacity) You said it well, we have to cope with it, or in another words : manage our energy, or know our limits. We will always be weak with this 4th function, and we have to accept it, accept our self. The best is too avoid stress as much as possible, and knowing our functions help a lot. This flexibility of our mind, we can see it as a defense mechanism of our brain to survive, and it's necessary in certains situations.

[@lucymaltez5336]

I think as you get older your SE improves somewhat. I now see some functions of Se as pleasurable, but it took me a while to find them (swimming, dancing, pilates). But, these can also become maladaptive. A younger me, when in the grip, was a thrill seeker; obviously, within the bounds of my temperament (being more impulsive, getting out of my comfort zone, partying, drinking). Now, I go OCD with exercising and cleaning. There are still mere mundane tasks that are just too hard to deal with. For example, paperwork, looking and buying a house, hectic work schedule, going to Ikea (😂). But I agree it is important that we learn how we react to stressful environments.

[@heatherwhatever7714]

This does help me sort things out. It’s like I’ve turned the process of type identification into a problem that must be solved 100%, but the more I learn the more I believe I could have gone with my initial impression. I can definitely be in the SE grip. This period of time for me has involved non stop unfamiliar stresses mixed in with events I dealt with in my old ways of avoidance. I’m walking through things, learning to deal with them but still feeling terribly insecure about my abilities to sustain what is needed. It is unfamiliar territory to not constantly give in to other’s wishes. That should make things easier. In fact when a certain family member shows traits of the person I adapted to for a long time, I react rather strongly, perhaps even “normally.” Maybe eventually I can get through the process of paying off debts and dial down that constant stress. Maybe this will turn out to be a better life than I expected. 🙃When I think of certain thrill seeking activities my whole face lights up and the smile feels like love. I need to renew that spark in safe ways and as a parent I made choices to do that more often because I feel an obligation to not be selfish and go out early in a flaming ball of dust. My loose plan is to establish running goals while maybe getting knee surgery first (I hyperextended my knee falling on ice last December and just tape up and do things anyway but it’s not getting better.)

[@Leshy_]

Yknow what ive particularly notice, i get intense stress where my plan doesnt go the exact way i wanted. It makes me crash, it makes me wanna do all things at once, drink alcohol, sleep, eat, self destructive behavior. My friends just thinks its normal for this but for me, i hate it i have no control and its making me embarrassed

[@RensRoom]

I've been there, trust me!

[@Coneman3]

Interesting. This got me thinking about a more general aspect of INFJs. I like how you say MBTI has a problematic relationship with science, but that this says nothing about it’s truth or otherwise. Science is after all a method of understanding which has its limitations. But the more general point which I want to make and have found so true increasingly as I’ve got older, is that we tend to end up at the edge of what is accepted and conventional or undisputed. Given we are the ‘tip of the spear’ and have a tendency and ability to dive deep and push boundaries, this is no surprise. It’s also another reason why being an INFJ can be challenging but the counter to this is that we can make important leaps forward n understanding. It’s a shame this subject is not more widely understood and known about because then INFJs could perhaps be given more sympathetic ears. Being an INFJ would encourage others to respect us more and be less dismissive of us etc. if they knew that our seeming grand and out of the box thinking could lead to breakthroughs, similar to the latitude that classical highly intelligent boffin types are given. Our relational Fe means we don’t fit the box of a stereotypical academic. Our unique and highly valuable skills are usually hidden and seen as weakness or naivety and ‘softness’. If instead we were encouraged to dream and valued for it, imagine how that could play out?

[@heatherwhatever7714]

I don’t always use the correct terms to describe being in the grip but I’ve certainly seen the effects of this. Going through grief the last couple of years, I’ve seen the very worst of my sober self possible. From the outside most people would not see me thrashing around in feelings good and bad that seem to push out logical progress unless they challenged the small amount of control I have over my circumstances or followed me to the dollar store and saw the limited damage but damage I could do. There are two other places I can only describe but seem to display a subtype of thought changes that can go in an unintended direction and that would be my ADHD untreated and treated. Treated I can stay with a plan that comes from either state. It’s organized in my non verbal way and indicates a natural path I’ve learned. However, if I forget the treatment I will get a wild idea and take the path off course. Where the need for creativity as it comes up Is good when painting it is important for me anyway, to have it still under a loose plan. When humor, while it still must contain some logic for it to not go too far off of the map, it still has less constraints. I could do that every day. If I forget my treatment my jokes are better and come faster. They are about random ideas that branch off of normal circumstances, and they can come so fast it doesn’t look like work. I’d be interested in why one creative effort is one way and another so potentially fraught with “danger.”

[@Richard-zm6pt]

I was waiting for symptoms--specific symptoms--but I either missed them or they weren't forthcoming.

[@PsychicRaven]

Hi Cookie :)

[@RensRoom]

*meow* ^_^

[@PsychicRaven]

@@RensRoom 😺