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[@robin4923]

jenna: "dogs could in theory kill a person" kermit: *on the verge of committing homicide to get some mug pizza*

[@RealToWonder]

hes a problem dawg

[@sloop3720]

Lillian Stumbo “ _in theory_ “

[@mookistudio]

he’s a whole ass mood

[@cllcccic8270]

it was great, but wow the director and carols husband looked and sounded like total assholes, chick that lost her arm was a beast

[@steph_lopez]

What’s more suprising is that a raccoon can tear a dog apart.

[@amandamarshall1485]

To answer Jenna & Julien's Questions........ From someone with a bachelors in Zoology What happens to the animals when places like Joe's are shut down? - The officials try to re-home them to an accredited zoo, or a well reputed sanctuary. If they can't find a home, the animals get put down. This is sadly very common when animals outgrow their human's ability to keep them as pets. Can you take a cat from Africa - No. This is smuggling. You can only buy cats that have been bred in the U.S. different states have varying degrees of regulations. Some have almost no regulations. Ohio for example only has regulation for native wildlife. Almost anything with non-native animals is free game. Why shouldn't people breed cats if they are endangered? - Since there so few tigers, they are at risk of inbreeding. Accredited Zoos have an extensive database to avoid inbreeding. The white tiger cub in the car on the show? His eyes were crossed because he had a genetic disorder from being inbred. To get a white tiger, they are commonly inbred. Breeding unhealthy, inbred tigers does not help increase viable populations in the wild. Private breeders also might cross-breed different species of tigers. That doesn't help the population numbers of the individual species. Cubs are sometimes put down when they grow too big to be used as photo-ops. Also, breeding Ligers is awful. They have health problems and don't live long. Over-simplifying, their "Tiger" hearts can't support their "Lion" size. In summary. Don't support private breeding of wild animals. Support habitat restoration, population protection and anti-poaching efforts. Be a conscious consumer and do your research before spending money at any animal-related experience.

[@lazeywinde6113]

Thank you! I've been following the big cat captivity crisis for years.

[@teresitanieto329]

Question: is it possible for a big cat that is bred in captivity to be released in the wild? To look at the example that Jenna was stating about "making more" in order to prevent extinction; Why not release into natural habitats? Are they not "built" for the wild?

[@Blockdog6]

@@teresitanieto329 Bachelors in Animal Science person here. It is very hard because the cubs are taught by the parents and if the parents dont have the knowledge to teach them how to track, hunt, and the kill live pray then the introduced animals will starve. There have been some big cats released in protected sanctuaries but they are then very vulnerable to poachers. There is really no good way to do it as of now

[@amandamarshall1485]

@@teresitanieto329 Great question! Some species of animal bred in captivity can be easily released. With Tigers while it is technically possible, it's very unlikely. Tigers learn how to hunt from their mothers and cats are strange in that once they reach a certain age, they will never learn how to skillfully hunt. There is also the issue with releasing a tiger that is not afraid of people. Many places have laws against releasing wildlife that are too accustomed to humans. It's dangerous, especially with a Tiger. "Rewilding" a tiger would be difficult. For reference, where I live there is a center that breeds an endangered species of antelope (sorry, i forget what kind). They send individuals they breed overseas to a controlled sanctuary in the species' native country. At this sanctuary researchers then breed five more generations to breed out any residual captive-behaviors. Researchers make sure they can forage and are scared of predators. Then, that fifth generation is finally released into the wild. It's a huge undertaking, and tigers are even more complicated. These programs exist, but the success rate is very low and almost all are still in their trial stages. However, there are controlled areas where bred tigers are released. They can wear radio collars or are micro-chipped so rangers can find them to make sure they are eating, and aren't poached, but they are not fully in the "wild". However, every individual tiger is different and i'm sure there are some exceptions. Also, wounded animals in wild populations (not-captive bred) who are treated and recover can be re-released. Also, they need a big enough "wild" be released into, and finding enough viable space is difficult. Sorry for the novel and support habitat protection :)

[@aamandazittlau5505]

Amanda Marshall what are your thoughts on accredited zoos? Are they okay to support? Are some accredited zoos still bad? My hometown’s zoo (the Edmonton Valley Zoo, in Canada) is accredited, but they’ve had some major controversy over the treatment of their elephant. I’m pretty sure it’s gone international, and to my understanding, almost all the experts involved say the zoo is in the wrong. The fact that the zoo hasn’t lost their accreditation makes me wonder if whatever organization does the accreditation is really doing enough to enforce their zoos don’t exploit animals... 😪

[@flamingofab8678]

I disagree about Joe picking up people from the bus stop as being one of his “good acts.” I thought it was pretty clear that he hired excons because they had nowhere else to go and they were easy to exploit. Once he got them to his place, he treated them terribly, paid like $20 a WEEK, housed them in unimaginable living conditions and they had no choice but to stay. It’s no different than Doc taking on virginal young girls. They are both vulnerable groups of people that are easy to exploit and bend to your will.

[@DreamingSkychild]

EXACTLY, they are predators who not only exploit animals, but people horrifically. It's disgusting. I felt so disturbed watching the series that I still haven't been able to watch the last two episodes. I was wondering if anyone else saw them as predatory, narcissistic and violators of animal and human rights too. I am so glad I am not alone. I am so saddened that so many have fallen for Joe and Doc's manipulations and guises. None of them were good acts. They were all exploitative, ways to get want they wanted. Ways to get power and attention.

[@sammyz7569]

Read a Reddit of an ex-employee they would get payed 600 a week or 1,000 if you were a manager

[@iamwhole8910]

Karen Moler not to mention joe gave them meth to keep in addiction.

[@maddymarling3990]

DreamingSkychild let’s not forget either that joe seems to conveniently end up being with guys who are fresh out of high school and have addictions and usually say they are straight before and after Joe. Joe does almost exactly what Doc does but with young men

[@Eriey3]

I’m still shook that Carole’s people are so brainwashed they volunteer 😧 that blew my mind. They’re all so manipulative

[@isabelmarie2003]

Still can't get over how disrespectful the "balls" jokes were at Travis's funeral

[@DreamingSkychild]

Yes it was so disgusting :'(

[@meganemison9462]

Isabel Marie right

[@laurenblackley1326]

And marry someone 2 months after

[@mr.berardine1694]

No one said Joe wasn't an idiot. The whole lot of then belong behind bars.

[@neversurrender2909]

Isabel Marie I haven’t watched it yet but when my aunt passed she requested her funeral be more of a happy/celebration thing with good vibes and energy , she would’ve hated if we had a regular one with everyone crying and feeling down but anyways because of her wishes there where many jokes told at her funeral as ppl spoke and gave their speeches. The ppl who where there to support other friends and family who didn’t really know her where judging saying what we said was “bad” or “wrong” for the setting but they where her LAST wishes and they didn’t understand that because they didn’t know that. My point being maybe was inside joke with the two? Or something along those lines

[@janitaeggendorfer2982]

I found it funny when Julien said he can't imagine that this happened in America. I thought this was one of the most American™ things I have ever watched

[@kindasorta123]

Same. I'm from America btw lol. What's more American than toting a gun on your hip at all times and illegally owning exotic animals just because you can?

[@nymphut]

Omg same! I’m also American btw. Just shows a lot of ppl have no idea what’s going on in other states and what ppl are capable of

[@milliphoebe4416]

I feel like it is really southern lol. People aren't like that at all where I'm from in America

[@ziinuka]

I'm European and found Julien's comment adorable, like boy how do you think we see you 😂

[@anniken.]

SAME AF. 1000% agree. I thought the same thing

[@ritag2379]

Julien: it felt like i was watching something that was not in America me, a european, after finishing tiger king: America is the literal only place in the world where something like this could happen

[@LawNerdAmber]

Rita G you’re right!

[@spirituality4u760]

Not only America, but Oklahoma specifically. Im oklahoman born and raised and while i was shocked at some things, im not really suprised this person exists here 😂

[@Squidgirl15]

I’m with you; I’m Canadian and anytime anyone spoke we would mutter ‘...only in america’

[@LaurenAnne6]

Agreed. I think Julien has a much more positive view of the US than what it actually is.

[@sundownsahara]

Or Asia. Or Africa. Or South America. There are other places in the world with shitty rules regarding animal and human welfare.

[@tobi-ir4bj]

Hi-- What Doc Antle was doing was NOT Sister Wives. He, as well as Joe Exotic, were grooming and preying upon vulnerable people, in Doc's case MINORS that needed a home or had addictions, etc. Super uncomfortable with that being glazed over as regular old polygamy.

[@nerdygirl1025]

Exactly! He manipulated them!

[@angieprunty9498]

regular old polygamy can also be the exact same thing, my mom is an ex-polyg and her experience was so alike what doc’s cult is. maybe not like the show sister wives, but that show perpetuates a completely skewed view of traditional religion-based polygamy. there are TONS of cases in utah where young girls are married off at as young as 13 and groomed.

[@danicakreiner1367]

Actually if you look up podcasts/interviews with doc he actually is in the process of taking legal action against netflix because 90% of what was said about him was spun way out of context or just isnt true

[@katc2040]

@@danicakreiner1367 sure. Sure it is. Carole isn't suing and she says the same thing. I'm sure it's not just him trying to save face 🙄

[@katc2040]

@@danicakreiner1367 I wouldn't trust the word of a predator cult leader over a victim that was in his cult. And he's obviously a fucking weirdo. Just watch him speak

[@nataliasikora7867]

Travis’s story broke my heart. The footage of the moment of his death was so surreal to watch. He really was just manipulated and pacified with drugs until his breaking point. His face during his wedding with the other two, said it all. He clearly was questioning his decision

[@gracieolivares]

The drug lord that was in jail for 12 years seemed like the most reasonable person in that series

[@gabriellathalblum3831]

that statement bears weight

[@Courtney-pe2iw]

obviously not that much if he got locked up for 12 years and would not stop selling drugs lol

[@nerdygirl1025]

No the manager with the 2 painted legs is

[@OhsoWoobie]

Gracie Patches except the animals he had got rescued from him because they were starving

[@bogosbinted5734]

Him and the producer

[@cassiemortensen5506]

Anybody else wondering how Jenna's plants are doing?

[@nicolettel.1021]

cassie mortensen yes!!! I’ve been so curious last couple months how they’re doing lol 🤣

[@samvega6268]

Yes! I want a part two!

[@theplantprodigy2010]

samvega what you said

[@blueoceania]

I have actually. How did those succulents on the shelf do during the winter? I think they would appreciate a wee bit more light. Jenna didn’t seem too interested in them in her plant tour, I hope she can see them thrive and start to love them more ❤️

[@theplantprodigy2010]

cassie mortensen me

[@syd9599]

Why is no one talking about how Joe literally mailed LIVE SNAKES to Carole? That was like... early on. And insane.

[@nerdygirl1025]

Yeah they really glazed over that one

[@sydneyshipley1269]

Those poor snakes !! He thinks its a funny little quirky joke but these animals have no part to play in whatever the hell she has done wrong in the world !

[@katc2040]

@@sydneyshipley1269 also she literally did nothing wrong. Joe just hated her and taunted her constantly. He should've been arrested for his threats against her alone. That's how you know the system is against Caroline. They should've arrested him long before he hired a hitman

[@precise1758]

nerdellee mae I don’t think they meant to glaze over that, but so many crazy things happen in this documentary sometimes things that you see early on get lost

[@emilys5545]

I really do not understand the hype and the whole “free Joe Exotic” thing. It was clear that the ‘good deeds’ he was doing was just for publicity. That shot of how gross the staffs trailers were, with rats in shows that. Like yeah, Joe Exotic had some meme-able moments but ultimately he still abused animals, took advantage of younger men who have drug problems and allegedly tried to kill someone

[@eatturpentine]

Emily Stubberfield Agreed 100%. It’s pretty bananas how a lot of people responded to it. The #FreeJoeExotic people are idiots.

[@christinamalanga2942]

It's not alleged... he was convicted & he's in prison for murder-for-hire.

[@stalemarshmallow5276]

@@christinamalanga2942 Convicted doesn't really mean proven, and there was a lot about that trial and situation that didn't add up.

[@hazeldean1012]

They also left out some footage of him being super racist, you can look it up- he had a lot of worse traits that just didn't make the cut because of how *much* there was.

[@zairazor-el5429]

Carol killed her fucking husband And is free as shit

[@austinburt98]

Okay, I’m not an expert in this kind of thing, but I wanna talk about how joe kept a bunch of tigers in close quarters together, when tigers are solitary animals. Those tigers fought constantly, they all had scars all over them. But yet, he kept the primates separated for YEARS while they openly begged for companionship because primates are social.

[@Kaye09MNchick]

austin veit That’s because they weren’t real rescues. They didn’t have the education of how to properly care for wild animals and how to run a proper zoo. They wanted the animals for profit and for the luxury idea of the animals. However, they did not understand that what they were doing was wrong for the animals. I honestly hope that law enforcement arrests them and convicts them on animal abuse alone. These animals would most likely have to be put down because they are too comfortable with humans and would make them unpredictable. They would not be able to be re-homed to a reputable zoo because of the unpredictable nature that was caused by humans using them for profit and treating them/ taking care of them improperly.

[@Courtney-pe2iw]

Tigers are social I think they run in pack families and of course we know they have babies

[@kelsielowe8280]

@@Courtney-pe2iw being able to reproduce has absolutely nothing to do with sociability. They also don't have packs

[@cozycasasmr4510]

@@Courtney-pe2iw maybe you're thinking of lions. Tigers aren't pack animals tho

[@kristarandisi6051]

@@kelsielowe8280 these aren't wild tigers .... they're fucking domesticated 🤣 like your dogs and cats

[@lovisaisolde]

The most shocking thing about the entire series that really stayed with me was the incredibly sad story of Travis' life. Really makes me want to cry.

[@IDAHOmag]

Him and his Mom 😢

[@Lionhearted626]

I agree. That and the way the animals got pushed to the background and forgotten those are the saddest parts of the whole thing.

[@lolarose6282]

it rly fucked me up :(

[@FrauStormm]

His story was absolutely heartbreaking. He was taken advantage of by joe and got addicted to meth and basically lost his mind. I can’t imagine the pain his mother is going through. I wanted to jump through the screen and save him throughout the entire series.

[@annalisahamlett1334]

It was so sad seeing the babies being taken from the mom tiger as she is giving birth, then Joe complaining that the baby tiger was keeping him awake. Hello, give the baby to the mom...

[@shannamichele974]

@Lilymoon baby cats definitely start nursing soon after birth. Domesticated cats usually do so for about 4 weeks after birth. Once the kittens eyes are open and fully developed, the mother weans them to dry food, water, and sorta teaches them about the litter box. (If she's a trained household cat and has those things available, obviously)

[@audrey7185]

I love both of y'all, but I feel like the main point of this documentary was lost on you two. This documentary beautifully displays how easy it is to disguise evil with kindness. Nobody in this documentary cared about big cats or other humans. Everyone was self-serving and did things that made them look good but in reality, only furthered their own agenda and harmed the people (and cats) they were "helping" in the process. I could list every example of this but I would basically be writing out the entire documentary. I really encourage you guys to rewatch or think over the documentary more critically and if you still have these opinions then I totally respect that. I love you both and by no means do I think your opinions are invalid, I just think this is an important conversation. I also can't help but note that the only difference between joes "romantic" relationships and Antels, is that Joes was homosexual so it makes me sad to see Joe's abuse be overlooked as "cute."

[@Britishpulp]

thank you so much!!!!!!!

[@daisy9858]

I completely agree! Also, (coming from a lesbian) it upsets me how people are ignoring the abuse of joe and his husbands just because Joe is gay. It feels like we’ve taken 2 steps forward and one step back, the lgbt community is more accepted now and Joe wasn’t the most hated only for him being gay. HOWEVER, it’s starting to feel like people are leaning toward “lgbt people can do no wrong!” Like how women were treated before.

[@maryprice8458]

@@daisy9858 beautiful comment. There's so much nuance I could cry.

[@DessaLotus16]

I feel like more people need to talk about the fact that Joe Exotic basically got young straight men addicted to meth so they would marry him for a fix. Like that kind of predatory behavior is the most disturbing, let alone his murder fetish for Carol Baskin. (Also why is no one talking about the alligator arson!? He straight up murdered like 13 alligators to get rid of some footage.)

[@nestleleslie5941]

I hated that part so much I was upset nobody talked about it, poor animals

[@SaviSparkles]

I 100% with you!! I really thought about that they way he did things and said things made Me cringe so much. Another disturbing thing was him calling the tigers “sexy beasts” and “sexy tigers” like wtf

[@unicornbones]

Agreed. That was horrific.

[@nestleleslie5941]

@@SaviSparkles I'm almost positive he was raping the animals the comments he would make were super inappropriate overall he gave me CREEPY VIBES, Fuck Carole to I know she fed her husband to those tigers the comment she made about the sardine oil was tooooo weird

[@dawnfizzle8771]

People do talk bout it. ....its why its in the docu series. Joe was a predator so of course he preyed on ppl who knew he could manipulate. But those men also made their own choices whether joe preyed on them or not. They allowed him to prey.

[@hannah-op1bt]

juliens next episode of aries kitchen should be mug meals you could probably make at home

[@kailee3275]

Easy mug meals for quarantine 🤤🤤

[@CJ-ht4rf]

This needs to be signal boosted. Julien we need mug meals! These are desperate times

[@agomez1550]

Jenna and Julien are one of the most empathic persons in this world, no one is saying the people on the show are good people, but they it's easy for them to see the human traits in each one of them.

[@wahooooh]

Adriana Gomez Yea, everyone’s human and some people go down different roads. Some people can be very disturbing, but there was a way they got there and they are still human. And just like all animals, humans can make dramatic recoveries and radical changes in their life when they see their errors.

[@missjo5ie]

The vibe I got from Carol Baskins is that her “late” husband is still alive in Costa Rica and she knows it.

[@heatherduke3207]

I havent seen this theory before and it's made me see the situation in a whole new light 🤯

[@kittycaruso50]

The vibe I got was he aint coming back cause he is dead and she and everyone else knows it...they just can't prove it.

[@DG939]

Okay I haven’t watched this yet but I just wanted to pop in and say, I visited the GW Zoo 6/7 years ago and they offered to let me live on their property and shadow their vet staff because I was, at the time, going into the Zoology field and I still can’t believe what a huge bullet I dodged by not taking them up on the offer

[@Alex-pn2hn]

I don't think they actually had any vets :/ that's what the documentary implied at least

[@ashleycrittenden2417]

They still take applicants for it lol

[@misti-step]

thats crazy they just offer jobs to whoever they come across apparently??

[@kaitlyns9972]

😟

[@superuglypizza]

GW brought tiger cubs to my elementary school and Joe Exotic talked to us about not doing drugs. I thought he was so cool, granted I was like 8 lol. Now I look back and cringe thinking they let him around children lmao

[@hannahrose4368]

Podcast: Our Thoughts On Tiger King Actual podcast: Kermit being unbearably feral.

[@nikicima4193]

Hannah Sanders he’s such a nasty boy

[@potatoe3675]

Joe was manipulative and abusive towards young men with addictions that he fueled in order to keep them close. Terrible. Don’t even get me started on Antle. Absolutely horrific.

[@ryanjames6395]

thank you, yes!

[@Girl24582]

You guys talked about how him helping people get jobs out of prison was such a heart warming thing but it’s also really a way to get workers who have no family, no other choices, no home and create a situation where they are basically so reliant on joe now that they are trapped and can never leave similar to what he did to Travis. Also the guy who lost his arm is a trans man who prefers he/him pronouns... love you guys and love your takes tho!!!

[@shaleamontanez4591]

My dad won an award for community service for giving affordable housing for people straight out of prison. And while yes, he did, he often would raise rent if people questioned the houses they were in, or asked him to fix anything. I do think those fresh out of prison are easy prey because the idea is "who else would let them?"

[@RealToWonder]

travis is the one i completely feel bad for. he was such a young kid, addicted to meth, and manipulated into an abusive relationship with someone he wasn't attracted to to get drugs and gifts. joe exotic targeted young men and manipulated them into unhealthy relationships. he did it with john, travis, and dillon. but antle did the same shit with those women. i think those men wanted to feel powerful. so, they chose to rule over big cats and personal relationships. carol baskin seems to do similar, but not as harmful things. she wants to be the top cat and is willing to do anything to feel like the one and only (something she never was for that missing husband). these people have severe emotional issues. antle and joe exotic both deserve jail time imo.

[@allyiahluvsyou]

Perfectly said! At Travis funeral he had the nerve to say that god but Travis there to make Joe happy. And then talked about how much he loved his bulls. At his funeral. That is crazy.

[@Lionhearted626]

americandumpsterfire I was like CONFUSED watching Dillon and all those young women around doc antel I was like........ what are they thinking???? And it’s not a Fucking surprise that all of them were young people marrying old Fucking men, one with a harem.

[@ohsnapitznat4139]

Travis deserved better 😭😭

[@lolagele5482]

americandumpsterfire they all used each other you can’t only blame joe :/

[@meganpurcell4035]

Thank you! The episode about Travis really messed me up and I had to stop watching it for a day, and the fact that no one was talking about it really upsets me. If Joe loved him, he would have looked after him. He was far too young, and Joe broke his soul in 4 years.

[@michelafitton8784]

is no one gonna talk about how joe literally tried to run for political office and used money from his zoo and left little to nothing for the pay of employees and funding to feed the animals??? this mans was CRAZY

[@jodalinasparty9718]

Huge narcissist!

[@dora-pen]

I mean, the first thing he said after Saff lost his arm was "I am never going to financially recover from this". How can anyone like him?

[@rubify3753]

There was so much going on in the show that I honestly forgot that he did that

[@Katie-or4tt]

Michela Fitton and not to mention the only food they had was off a rotten meat truck

[@waterhorse97]

I remember this on John Oliver!

[@kelseydavis5213]

I’m actually surprised at this take. I was expecting a takedown of this series from Jenna and Julian. The series got so far away from the tigers that by the end when we found out Joe killed some tigers (and also that he kept his chimps in separate small cages) it was brushed aside like nbd. The documentarian was extremely biased against Carole and painted her as being “just as bad” but she is in an entirely different class. I admire her tenacity to fight for tiger rights but she is painted as nothing more than a nag. Big Cat Rescue wrote an article on their site about their experience and it is 100% worth a read since they didn’t get to defend themselves in the doc.

[@jessicawhite3810]

Not to mention the killing of crocs in the fire

[@wahooooh]

I hate those animal shows. There used to be so much educational animal shows, but now people want to see animals within the context of humans and they are so terrible. I clicked on this cuz I was hoping they were gonna rake this show over the rails. I don’t even know what this show is lol but Tiger King says it all. A person who owns tigers, right? Not cool Unless it’s a legit sanctuary, but then idk why it’s a show because these days an American TV show implies drama and controversy and stupidity. Animal sanctuaries are good places and sadly wouldn’t make a great show these days ): I would watch it though lol

[@geehanel-abbassi7220]

Kelsey Davis YES!!! I agree I expected more from this podcast.

[@micaela7159]

Kelsey Davis when i watched it i thought it was ment to make carole look good.. compared to joe along with the others in the show, i dont know how anyone can take joes side. am i crazy?

[@meeptasticable]

@katy adrianna maybe if you actually lived in Florida and saw her facility for yourself, you wouldn't feel that way. The show didn't address all the animal abuse that occurs on her property, and laws she breaks as well. FWC (our state wildlife law enforcement) hates her, both the officers and the biologists. As a wildlife biologist myself, it's horrifying to see people who think Carole is admirable.

[@lanamoli]

The difference is that Carole Baskin was pushing for the law that forbids having big cats as pets. THAT is the difference. It doesn't matter how you feel about her personality, she goes for the change in the long run. the smart thing: change the law.

[@nerdygirl1025]

But she kept them in really bad cages to. I just don't get her

[@notoriousspring3136]

nerdellee mae She doesn’t anymore- check Big Cat Rescue’s KZbin channel for proof. However she kept them in the past doesn’t matter because she’s doing it well now.

[@heathermartin4411]

THIS! Carol and Joe are NOT the same. One is selling cubs and the other is speaking to congress.

[@heathermartin4411]

@@nerdygirl1025 it's an accredited sanctuary which means it gets inspected and has to meet certain standards. We don't know that the pictures Joe had actually came from the sanctuary. He blew up his own building and killed his own animals to make her look bad. He sells someone else's music as his own. He's not beyond a lie when it benefits him.

[@Je551kuhhh]

Her personality? Like, you saw that she has a fleet of people working for her, for free...oh, but she’s speaking to Congress 🙄🤦🏽‍♀️ You saw that she is just as exploitative and horrendous as Joe and Doc but thank goodness she’s changing laws that make it so she is the only one that can make money off the big cats...

[@mickayelahewett1826]

Hey jenna and Julien, I’m someone who never comments on anything, but as someone who works at a big cat/bear sanctuary I feel the need to jump in and help educate! A big discussion you guys seemed to have is where places like sanctuaries get their animals. I can’t speak for all, but for the most part ours come from private ownership. It is illegal to bring exotic animals into the country, but once they are here, there are no laws saying they can’t be sold off, used for breeding, or put to use for tourist attractions such as taking pictures with the cubs. As y’all mentioned, the laws around exotic animals have the biggest grey area possible. An example we have is two of our white tigers, who were smuggled across the border. The tigers were confiscated, but the person doing the smuggling got no jail time and no real penalty and is most likely out doing it again. To touch on the whole breeding situation, sanctuaries for the most part are no breeding. The way we describe it on tours is that we consider the sanctuary a retirement home. The choice to be wild was taken away from these beautiful babies, so we should not force them to breed so we can keep our doors open to keep more people coming in. Our lofty ass goal is that one day all of our habitats will be empty. With tigers there’s more of an issue with the breeding as well. In captivity you will see so so many white tigers, which shows how far people are willing to go to get the most exotic pet or to have a tourist business, as the white coloring is a mutation, a double recessive trait that isn’t meant to be so prevalent. The only way to get the coloring is through inbreeding, which leads to a whole host of problems. Crossed eyes, deformed paws and spines, blindness, deafness, just a whole host of nasty things. But the white coloring is considered more exotic, which unfortunately makes it more profitable. To anyone reading, please support your local sanctuaries. I know tiger king makes it seem like we’re all crazy but there are places that are doing their jobs to give these creatures the best life possible. And above all else educate yourself! I’ve spoken with so many people about how terribly they feel about taking pictures with cubs and things like that but as long as you learn from the situation, you can always find better ways to support these awesome animals. :)

[@taylordavis8106]

Mickayela Hewett this comment needs way more attention.

[@annikakohls391]

This comment should be posted by Netflix after the last episode. I'm glad that they are bringing attention to the cruelty in that industry, but as a big media outlet, they tend to push only the extremes.

[@heavyhitter]

so once a tiger is rescued from a different zoo or such, they aren't able to go back into the wild thus must go to a sanctuary? it's so sad to see these animals continuously go to different locked areas and not ever be able to actually roam free where they need to be

[@shookbrii]

@@heavyhitter yeah, they can't just be released in the wild because they may be too used to people and cause conflict with villagers wherever they're released, plus they may be inbred, and they wont have the skills to survive in the wild since they were raised in captivity. It's unfortunate but thats how it is for a lot of wild animals that go into captivity. So the focus is mostly on conserving habitat for them.

[@heavyhitter]

ShookSculpts interesting... sad how it comes to that

[@dexandpigs8892]

Just as someone who works in the zoological field, I just wanted to say that there are lots of accredited zoos that actually do A LOT for conservation, and are staffed by highly qualified vets and keepers all with college education in biological fields. Before you visit a zoological facility, make sure it is AZA accredited so you know the standard of animal care is high, and conservation and education are the number one objectives. Thank you for coming to my TED talk

[@toastysalt7160]

THANK YOU. i always tell people: i'm not anti-zoo. i'm anti-roadside zoo. a properly staffed, funded, and cared for facility can do so much for conservation. these people might have loved their animals, but that doesn't mean they weren't harming them

[@rebeccashoffner7264]

I also work at an AZA accredited zoo and I hope this is the message that people take away from tiger king.

[@lazeywinde6113]

GFAS accreditation is good too, for sanctuaries.

[@hillarymaxson4451]

I just looked up Big Cat Rescue and they have been accredited by the Global Federation of Sanctuaries. I stopped watching this documentary because I didn't understand why they were painting Carol as some villain. Am I missing something?

[@clairee527]

@@hillarymaxson4451 its heavily implied that she killed her ex husband...

[@cottonclouds]

the reason people enjoy holding and owning exotic animals is a power trip. they enjoy the control they have over animals they usually wouldn't even DARE to look at in the wild. it's disgusting.

[@delloliod]

I can't even watched this uneducated discussion. Jenna, Julien PLEASE research Big Cat Rescue before you call them the same. Yes Carole Baskin's is not the best person but her Sanctuary is a great place for rescued cats (rescued from places like private zoos, circuses and drug dealers) to live out the remainder of their lives. They do not breed, there is no cub petting (has not been either of these for almost 30 years there.) They are NOT the same at ALL. The clips from episode one and possibly further with many people going through the Sanctuary is an event that happens there ANNUALLY. NOT DAILY. When Joe went to visit he even said she did not have all her cats on the tour.... THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE RESCUES AND TOO TRAUMATIZED TO BE ON DISPLAY. In order to do a tour there, there is only so many people allowed on your tour and you only see a section. Him flying over her sanctuary threatening to throw grenades just shows you how much he really cares about animals. Not to mention the five tigers shot point blank of the two apes he had which were never let out of cages or i'm sure a hundred other horrifying stories centered around GW Zoo and places like Doc Antle (who is under investigation for gasses and murdering his cubs, not to mention all the weird underage sex stuff he SHOULD be under investigation for.) So saying this is a pot calling the kettle black situation???? Not at all. PLEASE do research. I used to take documentaries as point blank truths but after watching this documentary, it only makes me realize you should always do your research. We shall see where Carole's husband is during this investigation but please don't label her SANCTUARY under a backyard zoo. If you want to see how her animals are kept go for yourself or there's webcams literally all over that place. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Still love you two but please.

[@geehanel-abbassi7220]

delloliod i agree 100%. Im so angry over this video and how uneducated they were

[@delloliod]

@@geehanel-abbassi7220 I couldn't even finish it, you did better than me. I just hope they do some actual research and then come back with a well educated discussion.

[@geehanel-abbassi7220]

delloliod couldnt agree more. It was extremely hard to watch. The amount of people that are degrading big cat rescue with the simple fact that they aren’t educated enough to know that carole ISNT doing the same thing as joe AT ALL.

[@AnnaIPlayPretend]

But for being a sanctuary she does profit a lot which is suspicious and she could pay her volunteers especially after investing years upon years. I think the Netflix version was trying to even the scales with how many people online look up to her as a God and that's why they painted her so poorly

[@delloliod]

@@AnnaIPlayPretend .... she has volunteers AND paid staff.... perhaps you should look up Big Cat Rescue and learn more yourself?

[@jesshigginbottom3866]

Jenna is a “spoil them” Mom.. & Julien is the “teach them, so they learn good manners” Dad.

[@dennistmennace]

Lol. The fact that Julien's lap is "time out" though

[@DilleyDilley]

“What compels people to have an exotic animal” (Jenna holding a feral Kermit)

[@abigailharpe4971]

Julien: "The weather's been so erratic lately...one day it's sunny and then the next two days it's RAINY?!?" Me: *laughs in Midwestern*

[@xoxo62477]

Lol yeah I was just thinking that in Ohio is been 70 and sunny, rainy, we had a tornado, and it snowed yesterday...🤷‍♀️

[@gabbye4986]

Joe exotic is such an abusive and manipulative person. Don’t feel bad for him. He burned those animals alive. He deserves to be in prison . maybe just not 22 years but he should be in prison and they ALL deserve to be behind bars.

[@francescadarrigo3911]

The argument of "if this species is going extinct then the first thing is you should breed them" IS deeply flawed. It's flawed in the preconception that the problem with a species going extinct is just that we won't have pretty tigers anymore. The point isn't to preserve a species so that it just still exists anywhere, the point is to preserve whatever ecosystem that species is part of...which keeping a tiger in a cage (or any other habitat that it doesn't belong to) isn't achieving. Conservation isn't about just having the numbers, it's about preserving the natural status quo.

[@fullbin1162]

exactly what i was thinking. we need to work on the natural habitat so that the species can actually be preserved in a humane way and in the wild. not to mention if tigers go extinct in the wild, they are natural predators and may lead to a more unbalanced ecosystem if the extinction is sudden. its insane to see people that think if they exist in captivity that they will be fine.

[@francescadarrigo3911]

@@fullbin1162 exactly! The point is what part that animal plays in the wider ecosystem and how their disappearance will have a ripple effect. Just look at places that had previously exterminated foxes and via a chain of events found themselves with less trees, vegetation and even rivers!

[@Toastwig]

Yeah exactly, endangered animals are a symptom of the problem not the problem itself.

[@jessicawhite3810]

There's inbreeding that can jeopardize their chances too

[@jordanechols6851]

The only people in this whole series who seemed to actually care at all about the animals were Saff and Erik. Everyone else was too absorbed in boosting their own egos and tearing down other people to jack up their own reputation to give two shits about what happened to the cats. If we’re being honest, everyone else on this show also belongs in prison.

[@kindasorta123]

I actually felt quite bad for Erik. That part where he was drunk as hell and talking about how he was there when the tigers died, you could tell that weighs very heavy on him. I think he had misplaced loyalty in Joe, because to him Joe was the only reason he got off the street. In reality though, Joe saw a vulnerable and broken human being and decided to take advantage. Erik's story really stuck with me. You can tell he's one of the genuine ones.

[@SouthCoast18u]

The guy that we only saw briefly, the drug dealer/ Scarface lookalike really seemed to love his animals. I think he truly cares about giving them a good life with lots of love, you could tell especially since it was his own private collection and money wasn’t involved. I loved his sentiment about how there isn’t a true wild for them to go back to so he gives them all the love he can and they bonded.

[@Autz69]

kindasorta123 pretty sure he wasn’t drunk he was on heroin

[@chibigoth7441]

Beeezy *his

[@ClaireTschampel]

@Beeezy they are a trans man. HIS pronouns are he/him

[@sadiecowan9413]

Quarantine brain thought: Jenna and Julien talking about mug pizza, me smelling the pizza I've got in the oven. I almost commented that their food smelled really good.

[@CharmednReady03]

Sarah Meg 😂😂😂

[@Kitty-ex2gq]

woof

[@skylervogel4541]

The big difference between carol and joe is that carol doesn’t breed the animals to make money off of cub petting. All of carol’s cats are rescues from private owners like joe. And Doc Antle was clearly drugging the cats during shows you can see it in a clip when one of the handlers literally has to drag a unconscious cat off the stage. They all have evil qualities

[@middensommer]

final opinion: everyone on tiger king is just wild like holy shit

[@pigeonatic]

it's like all these insanely intense people met and fuckin mayhem

[@middensommer]

Pigeonatic feral: just like the animals

[@kellmarie1004]

And all of them should be in jail for various reasons

[@mychannelafc]

the whole time i was watching it: (that dog on the leash going AHHHHHHH from her last tik tok video)

[@KN-wl4vv]

I'd argue Joshua Dial (Joe's political campaign manager who witnessed his husband's death) seemed the most sane. But still ... I hope he's getting treatment for all the trauma he went through.

[@JeanetteMoser]

Podcast discussion idea: I’d be interested in an update on your mission to watch all of Nicolas Cage’s movies.

[@laimaiu]

Yes pleaaaaase. A review!!!!!

[@stratosphere94]

I love how Joe Exotic’s campaign van said “anti cyber bullying” yet he cyber bullied the ever loving HECK out of crazy flower crown lady lmao 😂

[@mackenziewalker9988]

Unpopular opinion: I liked Carole Baskin, didn’t like Joe that much, and *absolutely hated* Doc Antle

[@nahlal1263]

All of them are crazy, that look in carole's eyes is just creepy. America is insane

[@puppetguts7472]

I can see why you like Carol but as someone who is decently educated on animal conservation I’m highly skeptical of her. Any self respecting organization that ACTUALLY cares about animal rights will not work with PETA. The second I saw her working with them I knew she was a bit questionable.

[@sylvia5623]

@@puppetguts7472 I always hated PETA but if you look into Carole's sanctuary it seems really good!

[@Ghost-wy3iw]

I’m sorry but she’s such a hypocrite! Her zoo- yes zoo, was garbage! She bought her cats and called it a rescue! Not to mention her exploiting people’s love of animals for free labor! Also when she and her husband went after Joe’s mother? That was cruel, Carol has her dead husbands money, she didn’t need anything from them, it was cruel pettiness! They had nothing. She’s just as bad as the rest of them

[@heysis5147]

carol killed her husband stay woke

[@NinAnderson]

Poor Kermit Update: Kermit bit Jenna now I don't feel bad Update update: I know Kermie has no teeth and he's a small dog I just mean his attitude towards Jenna after she's picked him up he decides to be a boob after he cries for attention 😆

[@zomb_bree7950]

Okay cool, I mean that sucks but now I don’t feel bad either

[@belle1523]

Time stamp? I missed it!

[@zomb_bree7950]

wonderwoman0718 there’s a few lol, she’ll talk about everytime

[@belle1523]

@@zomb_bree7950 lol oh wow. I guess everytime she mentions it I didnt notice 😅

[@zomb_bree7950]

wonderwoman0718 lol

[@unicornbones]

It wasn't even about the animals, they were just commodities to these sociopaths.

[@Lionhearted626]

Unicorn Bones for sure

[@Millie_dread]

Yep exactly!!!

[@caelyn2873]

It started a passion for animals. When they started to make money their ego got the best of them.

[@katekief]

I love Jenna, but Carole suing joe make total sense? He literally directly infringed on their trademark to take her down?? And joe stole from his mother? And he made webshows constantly trashing her and threatening her? That’s the US legal system with legal fees. But even so, Carole was in the right? Lmao

[@micaela7159]

Kate yeah i dont get why people are defending joe.. i mean he was so blatantly sexist, a predator and narcissistic i just dont get how people think carole is worse or even as bad like...

[@morgano2544]

But to try to bankrupt his mother who had nothing to do with it is morally wrong, even if its legally sound. It's obvious his mum had nothing to do with the zoo and no knowledge as to what her name was on, and as much as shes to blame for that and should've been more careful, there is also an ethical issue in going after her. If Carole only cared about the cats and not money, she wouldn't have gone after the money of someone who has nothing to do with the treatment of the cats.

[@pollyflores418]

Morgan Owens Well, I thought that too but then I realized 1. He transferred the debt to his parents after manipulating them, and they are his responsibility not hers, 2. He blew up a sex doll of hers and put a dildo in its mouth, it was personal, 3. After some research, she never actually went after the house

[@nat4949]

Kate to me the problem lies in that she purposely tried to bankrupt him so he would lose the zoo (which is totally valid!), except it took a tool on the animals. We saw how the animals were affected by it. The animals did not receive enough food, because the zoo couldn’t afford it. IMO she was in the right, but she should have thought more about how to make sure the animals received proper care because that what it boils down to in the end

[@Ghost-wy3iw]

Her going after his mother (who had nothing), like his mother’s house and her furniture was cruel and petty. I’m not saying what Joe didn’t wasn’t also cruel and petty but come on don’t hurt people that didn’t do anything to you

[@shivangijain9224]

Hi guys - I would look into Big Cat Rescue more because the show really did not show the true side of the sanctuary - they pay their employees but have a group of volunteers (by definition not paid workers) and also have a really great facility. Also by definition they are a non-profit which means they can raise money by leading tours but they also put that money back into their facilities. I feel like the docuseries is really going to hurt the sanctuary and the cats that live at such facilities because it will make people suspicious

[@jessicacreed7773]

Good prediction, Big Cat Rescue no longer does tours because so many people threatened to kill the cats, Carol is afraid someone will toss a poisoned scrap of meat to them or something :(. So that's a major source of funding gone

[@kasia3582]

Its so wild how different people get completely different things from the same documentary. all i could see when watching that "cute" 3 way gay weddings was this sociopath who coerced two straight 19 year old boys to marry him with the promise of continued access to drugs and guns....

[@pippacita]

ikr.... like I know it was all revealed later but maybe they should've stressed it more how his husband ended his life because of him giving him drugs and putting him in a cage basically to make him stay put. and two months later he has a new boy toy and invites the mother just to make the press believe she's cool with it.

[@MackieMo1]

Saaame I hated every character and sympathized with no one

[@rmmm71709]

seriously they gloss over important parts.

[@KS-qs6xw]

They made the suicide out to be an accident but I don't believe that at all.

[@faiiry333]

Kasia y’all forget that there’s just more than straight and gay huh.

[@summerf6022]

I hate the part when you see Joe talking at the funeral for his dead husband, and literally made it all about him 😒

[@imjustanasshlesometimes3488]

Same. Thought it was disgusting. Such a narcissist.

[@jolien391]

And to see Travis’ mom sitting there crying and obviously out of her mind on meth, pretty tragic

[@googleuser8912]

And he was wearing a priest outfit.

[@TooBrokeToAffordCoffee]

Yeah, Joe's a narcissistic sociopath

[@steph_lopez]

Omg Jenna, you’re encouraging Kermit’s screaming by picking him up. Lol.

[@tykenstein]

Joe literally has zero redeeming qualities what are you talking about lmao

[@professorthread]

Yeah the producers said they cut out A LOT of racial slurs and language and A LOT of animal abuse. Joe is literally 0% redeemable and the power of editing is insane.

[@rudy1096101]

Tone it down Tyler. This is a conversation between 2 REGULAR people just talking about a show we all watched. So chill. Breathe. It’s a KZbin video.

[@tykenstein]

@@rudy1096101 girl what lmao

[@Saskia2406]

Julian talking bout how it doesn't feel like this shows is set in the US when the rest of the world literally only sees America like that

[@Wraiven22]

Literally scrolled through this comment as Julien was saying that and I was thinking the same thing. I mean, there is a massive sex trafficking trade ring going on in this country, none of this big cat abuse surprised me.

[@wilmavuokkoramone]

That is exactly what I was thinking the second Julien said that!

[@alisonlee1578]

As an American, I thought it was the most American thing I had ever seen and I was NOT proud. When I checked to see which subtitles the series had, I cringed *hard*

[@solveigbergersen8230]

TOTALLY!

[@Pulsardogtraining]

Wrong. This is how the world views Oklahoma lol

[@KenzieKaddl]

Carole at least spays and neuters her cats. also Joe literally burnt down an entire alligator/croc studio. he did not care about his animals and deserved everything he got. he was funny and weird, yes, but he was also a narcissist and a manipulator.

[@graceglo6638]

Seems like narcissist and manipulators are able to hide those behaviors by acting fun and “charming” ( I didn’t find joe charming but entertaining)

[@jessicabelmontes4286]

Exactly at least she wasn’t breeding the cats and euthanizing the babies once they weren’t profitable

[@destinybaugh3316]

She did breed them though! original with her first husband she breeded them THEN felt bad and started to neuter them.

[@alexisc3658]

Beeezy Joe isn’t an idiot. He’s a manipulator. He literally preys on vulnerable people to get them to be loyal to him. His husbands and even his staff. No one in the doc is a good person including joe.

[@westonschroder1673]

kenzie kuhn they never found who burned down the shed

[@steckae22]

I feel like the difference between Joe and Carol’s operations is like the difference between Sea World and a regular, accredited zoo. Carol/Zoos: animals are in appropriate enclosures, little to no animal/human interaction, non-profit organization Joe/Sea World: trains animals to do tricks and makes money off shows and animal interactions, for-profit organization

[@DrummerGiraffe]

While the organization might not be making a profit she surely is. And she was doing all the same stuff. I truly believe she switched from private zoos and cub dealing to this sanctuary stuff because she KNEW it was more profitable. I don't think she has the best intentions for the animals. She just happens to be doing it better.

[@jessicacreed7773]

@@DrummerGiraffe The only money Carol makes from the sanctuary is her salary from working full time each week, same as the other paid employees, and she "didn't take a paycheck for the first 20 years of the sanctuary".

[@DrummerGiraffe]

@@jessicacreed7773 Yeah, this is an old comment and i've changed my views somewhat since then. When I speak about her making money I'm mostly talking about all of the publication/advertising stuff she's done. I don't have any evidence she's made money from that, but unless she lives off of some money she got from her seemingly late husband, she must be making money somewhere, as we see her lavish lifestyle. To be honest and fair, I don't like to praise many rich people, especially ones who seem to use a good cause like animal rehabilitation and shelter to perpetuate their wealth hoarding. I think I was also really turned off by the sheer number of what are essentially unpaid interns that populate the staff of her operation.

[@jessicacreed7773]

@@DrummerGiraffe I'm glad. I wouldn't assume she's making money from that without any evidence- I don't see why she wouldn't spend the husband-money, and she has a job. I generally don't like rich people either, and I'm not personally invested in defending the woman, but she's put so much effort in I can tell she actually cares. Both in court and working boots on the ground at the sanctuary. Again I haven't seen any evidence that she's used the cats to hoarde wealth, I wouldn't assume the worst. And Tiger King was really misleading in not mentioning that Big Cat Rescue does have paid staff. I'm sure they made a lot of people feel that way. But that's how pretty much all nonprofits operate- a core team of employees, in addition to volunteers who just want to help out in their spare time.

[@artemislayman7008]

I love, love Jenna and Juilen. This was a very uneducated take on this show.

[@kivzzzz]

What do you mean "uneducated"'

[@toadt0ad]

care to elaborate?

[@Britishpulp]

@@kivzzzz the main point of this documentary was lost onthem tigerking displays how easy it is to disguise evil with kindness. Nobody in this documentary cared about big cats or other humans. Everyone was self-serving and did things that made them look good but in reality, only furthered their own agenda and harmed the people (and cats) they were "helping" in the process. I could list every example of this but I would basically be writing out the entire documentary. I really encourage you guys to rewatch or think over the documentary more critically and if you still have these opinions then I totally respect that. I love you both and by no means do I think your opinions are invalid, I just think this is an important conversation. I also can't help but note that the only difference between joes "romantic" relationships and Antels, is that Joes was homosexual so it makes me sad to see Joe's abuse be overlooked as "cute."

[@kivzzzz]

@@Britishpulp I totally agree with you. The people in this documentary didn't really care about helping the big cats, only themselves. I think Jenna and Julien also got the point but they also discussed other stuff in the show, which doesn't make it an "uneducated take".

[@superfrodio]

I see a lot of people saying that their favorite part of the show is Joe having all his husbands, but this really bothers me. It's brought up throughout the show that the first two men he marries have said multiple times that they were not gay, and that Joe acknowledged that they were not gay. He takes advantage of their addictions and assumes complete control over their lives. It's honestly really sickening to see, as somebody who regularly worked with mentally ill and addicted people. When you have a severe substance addiction you are incredibly vulnerable. Him marrying those two, young, meth addicted boys is not cute.

[@JoeyKlu]

👏

[@LaynieFingers]

Very well said. I don't care how many consenting adults combine in whatever combination. I honestly don't care. But those boys were both so young and so troubled, so vulnerable. Honestly, I feel like Joe was vulnerable in a different way, but he was so focused on finding #3 that it seemed so predatory.

[@elizza716]

Doc was doing the same thing with young girls! Now, he wasn’t suppling them with drugs, that we know of, but he was definitely controlling them and used their naivety for his own personal gain/pleasure. These men are BOTH predators.

[@superfrodio]

@@nuitetoilee To be completely fair, there could be some bi erasure going on. I'll watch the clips again to make sure I'm correct in saying that both of the first two husbands said outright in the show that they were straight, and that Joe outright said that they were straight. I do feel like they kind of glaze over it in the show. I do agree that no matter what, his behavior is malicious. Thank you for bringing bi erasure up, you are absolutely correct.

[@superfrodio]

@@elizza716 I 100% agree. Even the young woman who had gotten out from his "program" you could tell that the experience was incredibly damaging! It's freaky that he's been doing it for so long with little to no kickback.

[@smarina251]

It’s scary how so many people find Joe’s early actions to be kind. Yeah Carol Baskin didn’t pay her volunteers (dont get me wrong, I’m not supporting her), but Joe barely paid his workers and didn’t give them any time off or any really chance to quit. He manipulated them into working for him and staying with him. That’s not the kindness of his heart, it’s knowing how to use people to get what he wants.

[@lou_jane]

Exactly... he paid them, what was it? like $120 a week? To work 7 days a week, 10-12 hour shifts.. and fed them weird thrown out meat that had been packed into a hot truck, un-refrigerated truck and transported to the "sanctuary"..

[@vannahharmonia]

most of Big Cat Rescue's work force are volunteers. you dont pay volunteers. volunteers help because they want to...

[@natplatt1642]

@@vannahharmonia I agree with that, most sanctuaries or rescues are run solely by volunteers, but some of her employees said they had been there for years, and had been trained at a high enough level to interact closely with the cats, I would think at least those people should be paid. Especially when they sell tickets for so much on top of selling merchandise.

[@shouldbeabrook862]

Sarah Marina and the way that they got their food way picking meat off the garbage pile from Walmart

[@acutejessdisorder_]

They had to scavenge for expired food for fucks sake, that guy was trash from the beginning and I dont feel bad for him at all. I feel bad for the two young men he manipulated into marrying him and especially travis and his mother. I dont feel bad for anyone else because they were all complicit and didn't give a fuck about Joe's abuse until it directly threatened their freedom. Fuck all of them.

[@bethany7072]

Im surprised that Jenna didnt call out the blatent abusive nature of Joe, Doc, Jeff, and Carole's personal relationships with their partners, kids, and employees. That was one of the most disgusting things in the show that they not only treated big cats and animals like this, but that they also seemed to treat people the exact same way.

[@emmo4765]

"The girl who lost her arm" is not a girl FYI, the show incorrectly called him one.

[@bingiful]

I'm kinda sad this is the only comment I'm seeing about this ): Saff even said in the follow up episode that he's a transman

[@DrummerGiraffe]

He wasn't out when the show was being filmed. I'm sure it was too expensive to retroactively dub over with correct pronouns.

[@emmo4765]

@@DrummerGiraffe that's not what he said in the bonus episode.

[@daisy9858]

DrummerGiraffe he was out and transitioning during filming, he said they kept misgendering him despite knowing his pronouns.

[@ryxnmxrie]

It doesn’t matter how many years I’ve watched Jenna... I’ll never not be shocked by Kermit’s nasty behavior

[@GreatBooker]

Cermet queen-the several hundred part saga of Jenna wrangling her nasty cermet

[@lunanyberg5271]

I'm always so stunned with the way she handles it. I know it's because she wants to care for him. But she's pretty much being a mother who tells her kid "every time you cry i'll give you an icecream", but the kids problem is being depressed because of obesity. Julien might seem coldhearted in comparison but his "just deal with it" attitude is actually something that would make kermit happier in the long run.

[@magee2161]

@@lunanyberg5271 yeah she's definitely enabling the bad behavior

[@ashley-et9pv]

next on aries kitchen: microwaving flour and cheese in a mug and literally nothing else

[@Rosybelle45]

He's gotta do it to 'em

[@LawNerdAmber]

Here for it!

[@EvWuzhere]

Vegan chez

[@Sharon-ym3ko]

microwave mug meals

[@nathanielesvloghn2384]

This is the part where we all like this comment so Julien actually makes it?

[@sofiav7791]

I know you guys will never see this, but i felt the need to put my gratitude out into the world. I had some brutal racing thoughts tonight, and had a borderline panic attack. Listening to the podcast makes me feel less alone, and helps to ground me. From the bottom of my heart thank you.

[@scifidiva523]

Technically it's gotta cost hundreds of thousands if not millions to feed the big cats, let alone keep the ground and fences upkept. The "documentary" did nothing to show what Big Cat Rescue actually looks like daily. Yes Carole is f'ing weird and knows more about what happened to Don then she's saying (personally I think he got executed by cartel), but Big Cat Rescue has huge enclosure like the size of small houses, usually one cat per enclosures, with actual good meat, no contact etc. Also, BCR have a bobcat rehab facility on the grounds. They are doing things to converse nature.

[@peacechickification]

Be fascinated about their personal lives- but please please please recognize that these ‘interesting’ lives are abusive as hell. I feel so bad for everyone who is under joe exotic and doc antle. Horrible horrible horrible.

[@anabella2570]

it’s kinda funny that julien is shocked that that kind of stuff happens in america/he didn’t feel like it was in america, but america is the first country that would come to mind to me if you told me to guess where this shit happens

[@tackycardia]

no kidding, if you have enough money or guns you can get away with ANYTHING

[@maryvesel8083]

This kind of stuff is probably more common in the midwest than California

[@kapi253]

What I hated about the documentary is that they didn't explain at all what a sanctuary is or how it works so people that are not involved in the animal rights movement ended up thinking it was just another zoo. They should have explained that they don't breed, they are retirement homes for animals that cannot go back into the wild, work with volunteers like 99% of charity work, and charge entrance to be able to feed and house the tigers. It's literally the opposite of a zoo, it rescues and takes care of animals that have been put in this situation by animal abusers like Joe

[@willowskyzer9113]

I really wish they would read the comments and revisit this. I love Jenna and Juilen but this is honestly so upsetting to watch. I feel that the facts where so glossed over and truely vile people where unrightfully glorified. The fact that they haven't done any further research or made a statement based on the comments of this is quite unsettling for me.

[@114Jerycho]

I've got bad news for you guys...

[@Jay-bw8ye]

Well they are just talking about the show. So they're talking about what the show presented. It's just a conversation 🤷‍♀️

[@ambernicole610]

Jenna: dogs could kill a person Kermit: is crying himself to death to be closer to what used to be mug pizza

[@FearRKO]

A bunch of them were groomers . They hired younger people and treated them as prey.

[@kaitlyns9972]

Lexi YES

[@luciaking8141]

YES! Travis and Dillon were both NINETEEN when they married Joe!!!

[@minniemystic7185]

Lucia King many of his bfs/husbands were also his employees

[@missmingles]

Pretty much all of Antles wives are the same way. He took young vulnerable girls who loved animals, and trapped them into a cult.

[@radlee974]

Agreed! I feel like Jenna & Julien are the type of people who look for the best in people so I can see why they thought Joe giving people fresh out of prison a job was kind, good thing to do. For me, however, I thought “Yeah, he’s doing that because those people have very few options out there and basically 0 leverage. Thus they’re much more easily manipulated into doing what he wanted them to do.”

[@CreatureFeatureRlz]

Kerm: pick me up Kerm: *chomp mommy's hand* *gets put down for crimes* Kerm: no wait pick me back up

[@alexafebres7125]

I love Jenna for thinking that Joe taking in ex convicts was out of empathy for them, but he clearly preyed on them because they were vulnerable. They had no money, home, food, and no one to look for them depending on what they did because that is common for most people released from prison. He exploited their vulnerabilities because they had no where else to go and if it wasn't Joe and his mediocrity, then it meant absolutely nothing and that is much harder.

[@radhikamathur92]

I guess the part that sucks the most for me is that even the people who made the documentary, didn't care about the animals. I think that's evident from the entire series. The focus was always on the people, not at all about raising awareness and answering so many of the ethical questions around wild life trade that we're all left here wondering. Why couldn't there have been more focus on that? So we can collectively as people learn more about where these animals should be, and how we can help make that happen. Netflix is usually really on point with their underlying message with their documentaries, but Tiger King, and "Don't fuck with cats", both just felt exploitative. I think that's the saddest part. Ps. Carole Baskin defs killed her husband, and then re-married someone who looks really similar.. wait... were they the sa-

[@SharkSnoot]

I agree. I would much rather have a fact-based documentary looking at the quality of the animals, their habitats, and where the money goes. Discussing what professional conservationists think of private ownership and exotic animal breeding. This show focused too much on the personal feud between Joe and Carole instead of informing the audience about what they can do to help the animals. Definitely using the whole "wow crazy story involving tiger owners!" to gain attention.

[@lazeywinde6113]

The Tiger Next Door was a good documentary on the subject. I'm not sure if it's on any streaming services.

[@samanthae8459]

It was never gonna be about the animals. The title was tiger king so obviously it was gonna focus on joe lol. I wish there would’ve been more focus on the animals too but I don’t think that was the goal of the documentary

[@BillyBob-jg1gq]

What’s wrong with don’t fuck with cats?

[@specialj67]

It’s my understanding, from a couple of articles I read after watching the series, that the directors did actually want to focus more on the wildlife trade issues and such. But according to one of the directors, Netflix wanted more colorful personalities and kept insisting they add more of that.

[@Buffaloreplaced]

Finally some people with semblance on this. I’ve had so many people on Facebook talk about Free Joe Exotic and stuff and I’ve wrote LENGTHY posts about why he absolutely should not be free. People are being sucked in by the same thing that got him famous in the first place: his narcissistic charisma. He is a reality star. That’s all he ever was. He sold thongs and condoms in his zoo gift shop...he doesn’t deserve any praise and does not deserve to be free from prison. The USDA inspector for the sanctuary I work at was also the USDA inspector for his facility many years ago. She hated that he was able to get away with what he did and how he kept his animals. To legally be open to the public you have to have a license by the USDA, so they create the minimum standards for enclosures and such. When it comes to big cats, it hasn’t been reviewed or changed in YEARS. All the USDA requires for big cats is that they can stand up, turn around, and sit down. Joe kept most of his tigers in the minimum requirements to stay licensed by the USDA. He did not go above and beyond to give his tigers any of the 5 freedoms talked about in true animal welfare. That’s a sign that it was never about the tigers. It was about the money. Joe Exotic deserves to rot. No amount of charisma will ever change the fact that he was an animal and human abuser.

[@ThatsAbbiWithAnI]

The employee who lost his hand is actually a trans man. His name is saff and he uses he/him pronouns just btw

[@dbdnights]

Jenna: "Everyone on this show is so violently human..." Seriously wise statement.

[@AHippieFrom1969]

Where is Marbles on the pillow?? I miss the golden boy

[@Rosybelle45]

He's secretly covered in green so you can't see him

[@ashleycrittenden2417]

they needed to keep the mug pizza safe from him

[@alex.3.kitsune663]

@@ashleycrittenden2417 idk that they have to worry about marbles eating their mug pizzas, as long as they stay in the mug he won't be able to figure out how to eat them

[@ManateeGhost]

He's social distancing.

[@Not4you2c]

When Jenna said she was grateful to have food... like, she’s just so pure and wholesome. Money and fame hasn’t changed her a bit.

[@carrojohansson8151]

i generally agree! but in the podcast about "the current situation" they were both saying that they were being so good about stocking in time and having a "go-bag". i would have just wanted them to acknowledge that not everyone has the economy, or the space in their home, to stock. - don't come for me! i love them, but i should get to criticize them just once 😉

[@WickiBlumensaat]

@@carrojohansson8151 but just because she didn't say it.. dont you think she knows?😁

[@carrojohansson8151]

@@WickiBlumensaat i'm sure they know. but usually they verbalize that and disclaim that.

[@Not4you2c]

Carro Johansson I agree that not everyone has the economic means to stock up. I have a seven month old and found myself having to stock up on diapers, wipes and formula - which is fairly expensive - and I felt so grateful that I had the means to do so. But! I don’t think they have to vocalize every single time they feel grateful. Their reputation and character speaks for itself on that one, I think! But I see what you’re saying!

[@carrojohansson8151]

@@Not4you2c that's true! thanks for some perspective. maybe it's a bit unrealistic for them to acknowledge everything all the time 😅

[@laurahay7641]

Definitely not what I thought you guys were going to say in this video about the doc If you want to see ethical and quality big cat care please go watch Kevin Richardson's youtube channel The Lion Whisperer. It's a South African channel that talks all about why breeding is bad in captivity. You will definite see big cat care being done right there in terms of enclosure maintenance, enrichment and knowledge!!!!! Joe exotic is not a good person, the awful state that his animals lived in is an obvious tell. There are 100 plus different things wrong with that guys zoo and that's why he is in jail. Breeding, grossly inhumane living conditions, improper food/feeding, abuse, unethical euthanization, neglect and sooo much more. All to my knowledge and off the top of my head (I also do not live in America and you may do things slightly differently) - To start and own an animal sanctuary is quite easy, especially probably for Carole as she has money and had existing land, cages and housing structures. It's all about the facility being up to date and passing inspections as well as having up to date permits according to the states regulations. Inspectors would take into consideration the types of animals that the owner plan on taking on and that specific animals environmental (ecological and territorial) needs, make sure a specialty vet was working along side the sanctuary and dietary requirements were being met. inspectors and permits would like go through a specialty governmentised sector or a government apponted authority. I do believe Caroles facility is on books and all up to regulation, I'm very sure that the necessary authority's would have caught wind of anything off the books with an establishment as big and popular as hers. Facilities like hers that keep cats till they die naturally and save animals from extremely cruel conditions are amazing resources. Animals can come from homes where people didn't care for them properly or circuses where they were being abused or private owned zoos. Zoos and accredited sanctuaries are the most ethical thing after 'leave them tf where they are'. Employees and affiliated vets are knowledgeable professionals who have the animals best interests in mind! Facility are up to date and proper are is being provided. I would also love for you guys to read the letter that Carole wrote after the series came out. She feels like the docu-series is totally bias, glass over really important details and exaggerated stuff. Like the meat grinder imagery compared to the real life mini grinder and heaps more of the series side of her. Definitely not defending her, I do not love the way her rescue is run. Thats just my personal opinion though as I major in ecology, basically the study of a species ecosystem and their ecological needs. Did not love what I saw! But definitely 10 times better than the condition of joe's animals and their environment. Please don't take this as hate! Definitely just my option and the knowledge I have from my studys. xoxo

[@kateshaw7569]

Really interesting hearing you guys talk about Tiger King! I just finished watching, and I have to say that Joe choosing to hire homeless and desperate people is 100% a predatory act on his behalf. Weird place today it I guess, but Joe Exotic seemed to me to be the epitome of narcissism.

[@kaviweaver5152]

Hey you guys! The person who lost their arm actually goes by Saff, and uses he/him pronouns! This was tweeted out by Robert Moor, who explained that Saff was adamant throughout shooting about his gender. I'm pretty sad that the production didn't care to respect Saff's name and pronouns and I know you two would have used the right ones if you'd known. Much love

[@LeanneZackowski]

Kavi Weaver There are many misleading things wrong in this documentary in the way they presented it.

[@irerim2961]

Leanne Zackowski you are so right, Leanne. It was filmed with an empathetic spin towards Joe

[@cassidybrewer]

Thank you! I was looking for this comment!

[@britttee5147]

John, one of the husbands, had his teeth fixed and they didn't show it or let him wear a shirt during his interviews. They just definitely had zero regard for the smaller people in this. Kind of shady if you ask me.

[@dustinhall669]

I feel so sorry for Travis Maldonado and his poor mother. It made me happy to see John Finley doing well.

[@ariadnasaenz]

When Julien was lie "how is this america?" I was like..... have you been living here lately cause a reality star is our president?!?!

[@hallieseefeld-smith8745]

This podcast is just Kermit being a brat for 44 minutes

[@isabellezappacosta4574]

That scene with the Snow Leopard in the back of that hot van broke my heart. If you do not have the means to give an environment that is adequate for its needs and a diet that will sustain it you do not deserve to own those animals.

[@AmyinOregon]

This part killed me. Omg, I was so mad!

[@nicki1273]

Can I just point out how Mario was stuffing COCAINE into SNAKES to get it to a different country and he said that HE DOESN'T CARE IF THE SNAKE DIES OR NOT I was baffled

[@GreenmarchFarmAuburn]

That wasn't Joe Exotic it was Mario Trabuae.

[@nicki1273]

Greenmarch Farm oh 😂 but stillll what is wrong with the dude

[@emilyrussell6720]

I don’t think we was talking about currently. I feel like he was kind of separated from it a little. That was years in the past and he also admitted he was selling the drugs to feed his animal addiction, not the other way around also he seemed to have the happiest, most well fed animals and employees of the series.

[@nicki1273]

Thanks for all the likes omg I've never had that many 😁

[@YuinRuri]

It made me cry... Humans are so cruel...

[@kellytrejo626]

My favorite part of the show was when Joe Exotic’s campaign manager was like “joe is running for governor of Oklahoma as a libertarian, he didnt know what a libertarian is, .... he STILL doesnt know what a libertarian is” LMFAO

[@alissamilau7861]

At the end of the block I lived on as a child a guy had big cats in tiny cages, a girl tried freeing one and got mauled. They raided his property and found the worst conditions for these animals. My family deals with exotic reptiles and some wild animals. We always treat them with respect and an understanding that things can go wrong. My uncle almost got his arm ripped of by a 13 foot gator, and only ever blamed himself. We also do everything in a legal way for all animals cared for. Will Nace is his channel on KZbin.

[@garbageperson1766]

I live in oklahoma and I'm so glad that people are finally learning about the mess that is Joe exotic this man has been in my brain since the seventh grade and has not left

[@garbageperson1766]

I have been waiting for this man to become a meme every single time he has graced my local headlines and then he gets a WHOLE DOCUMENTARY god bless

[@heather_bee]

Video idea - kermit gets professional dog training lol

[@ReynoldsMiss]

Heather _ i was just thinking they should invite Caesar Milan!!

[@superharleyquinn2468]

Yes that would be the best, I wanted to comment this as well!! I would love to see them all interact

[@ejune27]

You can tell Julien didn’t pay much attention to the show

[@carolyingfa]

I had no internet for 4 days, came back, every channel's like "TIGER KING!" and I'm like "tf...is that a new Disney movie?"

[@letsalltakeawalk6906]

The campaign manager was the biggest double take for me. "I already knew he was batshit crazy from our conversations in Walmart" AJSFJNGBFN WHAT?!? And the footage of him during Travis' accident was bone chilling.

[@faiiry333]

it wasn’t an accident. he killed himself.

[@running2rie]

pouty babie but wasn’t he talking to the guy and saying that that type of gun wouldn’t fire without a clip even when a bullet was in the chamber, but then it did.. (when the one guy said to stop pointing it at him).

[@running2rie]

Briana Dahl because what he thought about the gun not being able to go off was wrong. in an article it said he read about it online.

[@midcondition]

Nicole Robinson no no, the thing bout the gun not going off was a separate thing, the campaign manager was saying that that morning Travis woke him up and pointed the gun at him, the manager had gotten upset and THAT is when Travis said the gun wasn’t loaded. Then alter that day, Travis started ranting about how he hated his life and killed himself in front of the manager. Two separate situations u have merged @brianadahl

[@shouldbeabrook862]

I don’t care for Carole but Big Cat Rescue is a GFAS accredited sanctuary which is not easy to get. They are also pretty open with behind the scenes stuff and have a lot of videos shared on KZbin.

[@Niriixa]

Joe Exotic literally spent years trying to ruin BCR's reputation. Like, *years* of smear campaigns. People are even now still repeating these baseless accusations against the rescue itself and Carole as a person- like, think what you want about Carole, but I think the rescue itself is absolutely doing its very best to give these animals a good quality of life for the rest of their life.The mission statement of the rescue itself if that ideally, at some point in the future there will be no more need for the rescue and it'll be empty because no more big cats are kept/bred/sold.

[@shouldbeabrook862]

Albdruck i have no problem at all with BCR, I think the cats are very well cared for and whenever they notice even a start of a problem they’re checked out by a vet; whether the cat is in their enclosure or if they need to take it to the hospital. No matter my feelings on Carole it doesn’t affect how I feel about the sanctuary.

[@geehanel-abbassi7220]

Sewer Sally yes!

[@meeptasticable]

@@lowercaseasmr3225 since when did they stop breeding animals? They were in 2009.

[@lilydegroen8713]

omg i just binged the whole series last ight and then i see you guy posted a podcast about it. IM SO EXCITED!!!

[@cloudsncats]

No one: Cermetti: must have *mUg PiZza* will die without *mUg PiZza*

[@clover8883]

When Joe Exotic describes the moment he opened up the cages of those two chimps who had sat right next to each other for ten years (they instantly embraced each other like long distance lovers at an airport), that really fucking got to me. Just truly heart wrenching. It almost redeemed him a little in my mind, seeing him with a broken heart over depriving those animals of companionship all those years- it showed he has capacity for reflection and (hopefully) growth. Nothing could make that right, though. Definitely the best documentary I’ve seen in a long time, it was such an emotional rollercoaster which I’m not sure my hormonal 3 week postpartum ass was ready to ride. One thing I took from it was everyone who keeps tigers and lions is CRAZY.

[@ghostant4612]

Demi I was JUST going to comment about that. It really got to me and how he worded it made it seem he was truly capable of empathy and regret. Broke my heart for those Chimpanzees

[@loveland852]

By the end, Saff was basically the only person I cared about.

[@ChocolateEyedGirl87]

He got his arm ripped off and didnt really care 😂

[@guiseofyouth]

@@ChocolateEyedGirl87 FYI Saff is trans. Apparently he told the producer this repeatedly but they made no effort to clarify this in the docu-series 😡

[@ChocolateEyedGirl87]

@@guiseofyouth oh sorry I didnt know

[@irissayshi]

And cowie

[@spectrumbeauty8784]

@HelenPixelen he's male

[@melBea123]

How Carol was mistreating tigers? Just the fact that she doesn't breed makes her a 1000% much better person than Joe Exotic. Have you not seen the Cubs being snatched out of their tiger mama right at the minute they are born? Also, the big cat act would restrict big cat ownership which is a huge issue. Being animal advocates , I'm sorry but I'm disappointed at your take. Sorry I still love you though

[@KittyKatMeow06]

I’m fairly certain that Saff is a trans man? Am I wrong? They refer to him as “Kelci” throughout the show, but I think he referred to himself as Saff.

[@sarahlillibet]

He is. Although, in a post-interview with Joel Mchale, he stated that he is not mad at being referred to with the wrong pronouns or name during the documentary. But yeah, I noticed that as well.