Podcast 435: How Hard Is It to Stop Antidepressants, and Are There Better Alternatives?

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SHOW DESCRIPTION: In this podcast I talk to clinical researcher and fellow at University College London Dr. Mark Horowitz on his own experience on psychiatric medication, the many myths surrounding antidepressants, safely withdrawing from psychiatric drugs, and so much more!
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EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:
3:55 Why Mark is passionate about mental health
6:10 Psychiatric withdrawal is often misunderstood or overlooked
8:00 Mark’s own experiences with psychiatric medication & withdrawal
14:45 How survivor-run sites are helping people suffering from psychiatric drug withdrawal
17:26 There is very little guidance on ho two stop psychiatric medication safely
22:00 Why the withdrawal process is so hard for so many people
23:00 Why it is important to withdraw from psychiatric medication gradually & under the guidance of a medical professional
28:00 How psychiatric medications affect the brain & body
32:38 Why some people mistake drug withdrawal for a return of their condition
33:28 What withdrawal symptoms from psychiatric medications like antidepressants can look like
41:20 The power of awareness & acceptance + how our experiences can shape us & help us grow
45:00 Research on how common withdrawal effects from medications are
47:16, 54:13 How to safely withdraw from psychiatric medications
58:53 Why we should be careful when it comes to drugs like esketamine
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
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*DISCLAIMER: This podcast and blog are for educational purposes only and are not intended as medical advice. We always encourage each person to make the decision that seems best for their situation with the guidance of a medical professional.

[@IamRestored]

Discontinuation syndrome is horrifying. I was not made aware of how difficult and damaging it could be by my prescriber. I asked but was told it only takes a "mild taper" and is very easy. Well, that was not my experience. It was horrific. Brain zaps that felt like someone was smashing my brain with a sledgehammer, severe insomnia, profuse sweating, extreme fear and anxiety, altered gait, cognitive issues... I'm still suffering from the mental fallout of that experience which was last December (2021). If people really understood how dangerous these drugs can truly be, they would never take them. I wouldn't have. People need to know this. It is not discussed enough mainstream.

[@cathymerrill8418]

No it is not. AND don't start another one if you do get off of one. This is my first time to hear of this and I have been bouncing back and forth for 40 years. In fact, in the middle of it now and @69 with coexisting diagnoses I'm not sure I'll wake up if I ever get to sleep.

[@djjay-kay7636]

I started taking psychiatric meds for PTSD (that weren't proven to work) when I was 15 for almost 8 years and it took my brain/nervous system 5+ years to heal back to a manageable baseline. It's scary and sometimes I feel like it numbed me so bad my emotional development may have suffered going into adulthood. The doctors just wanted to drug me but were very negligent in providing effective treatment options that were conducive to my healing from the actual trauma. I would not trust these "professionals" with my impressionable kids.

[@djjay-kay7636]

@@cathymerrill8418 I would look into medical Marijuana if it is legal in your residence. Very helpful for sleep problems and taking the nervous edge off, especially if you're having a hard time with withdrawal but want a more natural medicine with less side effects. You can even talk to a pharmacist about different strains for your specific needs or find a route of administration that is right for you. Just a suggestion.

[@IamRestored]

@@cathymerrill8418 look into black seed oil. I just started taking it and I feel like I'm myself again. Others have stated using black seed oil when coming off of antidepressants or benzodiazepines with minimal effects. The oil naturally works to heal and modulate different receptors in your brain. It's been a miracle for me.

[@IamRestored]

Please look into black seed oil!

[@mystiwilliams8212]

I am so grateful for all of this imperative information! I have trauma from narcissistic abuse and now experiencing Parental Alienation and seeing the narcissistic abuse against my 13 year old daughter. It's extremely difficult and all of my love ones are telling me I need to be "on something to help" Zoloft, Prozac, Xanax, ect. I'm just not convinced that is going to solve my problem. I'm hurting and angry, however, I don't believe "drugs" will help. Thank you so much for all in sights and support! I appreciate you life's work so much!

[@amyhartnett4374]

Finally someone is saying all of this it isn’t the doctors who may not be holding this info back but someone is.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

My son is very numbed by his meds and is now very unable to see the dangers in this country right now, he is very complacent and cannot deal with disagreements. He’s not living in reality, because he can’t look at difficulties with critical thinking...he’d just rather not think at all. I’m a sad mom to see this. It’s ok to be happy and content when you are aware of the dangers in life and can face them.

[@lindabeswick5783]

You did not suggest alternatives to taking antidepressants, as the title suggests

[@ambibambi6479]

After listening to me of your older about the dangers of psychotropics, I decided to start coming off my antidepressants I was prescribed at 16 and now I’m 23 and was on the maximum dose of Citalopram. I started my reduction in September and am now on 20mg (half the dose I was on) and feeling the same!! I’d always been terrified of the side effects but I didn’t feel more depressed, only headaches, nausea, tiredness which only lasted for a week when reducing to 30mg Down to 20mg I had no side effects!! I wish I did this years ago

[@sujatabanerji]

It’s the lower doses that are the devil

[@gracegrace1896]

Why did a doctor convince me in 1997, that I would need Xanax for the rest of my life? And I finally believed him. And now on Klonopin and it’s so super difficult to get off. Plus I’m on lexapro. God help me. My adult son has been abused in psych wards many times and now is so sedated on clozapine, Effexor, lithium, clonidine- I don’t know how to help him. I was tapering him from clozapine successfully for 18 months without symptoms until he decided to jump off both Effexor and clozapine. Now suffering a lot. Last year was horrible. I’m feeling hopeless that we’ll never get off. Please pray for us.

[@thewillsfamilyaccount6486]

Wow! What a powerful talk!! Great stuff.. thank you.. 😊

[@kalynbrown4009]

So thankful for you, Dr Leaf♥️ I hope I get to meet you someday.

[@thewillsfamilyaccount6486]

What an excellent video!! Nicely done.. thank you..

[@mikeodee1164]

i quit anti depressants i never had any problems never had any side effects when i quit i also quit other psych meds in the past never had a problem u have to gradually lower the dose month after month i started taking alpha lipoic acid for nerve pain 2 years ago to my suprise it has made my depression 100 percent better anti depressants only helped 50 percent

[@savagemolonlabe9234]

Hi was wondering to get some reassurance? I’ve been taking Prozac for over two months and it gave me such a bad reaction felt poisoned the whole time and nausea and stomach aches. It’s been 10 days since I’ve taken it and still feel nauseous and spacey lightheaded. I’ve taken Prozac like 5 times on and off so why do you think my body had a bad reaction this time?? Just really scared looking for opinions by other people thanks

[@snafuagain5268]

I remember those electric Zaps! Got them last time I was changing from one med to another. They suggest to give it at least 30 days to adjust, Nope, always listened to my own instinct, 7-10 days tops, if I didn’t like the med I would switch to another till I found a med with the least or nil side effects.

[@carolinecroft7029]

Excellent

[@sarshhassan6323]

Please do more videos

[@indrapillay4201]

I was put on venlafaxine in 2008 because of severe hot flashes experienced from antioestragen therapy cos of breast cancer... Its now 15 yrs and i tried many times to come off it and i failed.. My oncologist put me on it.

[@KeishaKiger]

So is it safe to say I am on venlafaxine which is Effexor at 75 mg is it safe to half the 75 mg and then be extremely careful and take tons of time the slower you go down or do I need to take tons of time to get from 75 and do 10% at a time

[@deestewart3350]

I'd love to come off cipralex, which I have been on for about 20 odd years....but I LOVE them. I feel calm, relaxed and generally fine. If I get alzheimers or die earlier than if off them....who would know?! I tried to wean myself off them very slowly but the paranoia and craziness that I felt , was not worth it. I'm on 10mg. I'll take them forever.

[@catseyeview7]

They put me on citaplorm when I was 15. I'm 37. Just tried to get off, weaned off for years. Horrific experience.

[@monamouroxo]

So when and how much should one tapper off his/her meds? I saw online that it’s about 2-4 weeks but now I’m concern that this could be false info? Or does it depend on one’s body?

[@glen4326]

I tried switching to liquid sertraline to start a taper. I felt so bad (insomnia) just going to the "same" drug and it was a nightmare. I cannot get off the drug due to the debilitating withdrawal. Who else feels held hostage? How do you get your sleep, emotions, energy, motivation, concentration back?

[@Daniel9.13]

Glen did you ever get any help ? How are you doing today? If you don’t mind me asking.

[@sarshhassan6323]

Hi Dr carol leaf it's amazing topic I wanted ask the doctor I am taking deperption medication I haven't started yet I got anxiety too I am confused which one I take I got sleep problems I am single mum with kids I want to get better soon wat cause me depression was divorce it's happened 2021 still I am not fully recovered

[@snafuagain5268]

Start with Talk Therapy not medication. A Divorce can be a very stressful time. Be good to yourself, exercise is a very effective tool in relieving stress by helping your mind and mood. Speed Walk an hour a day, or Sprint, Short runs followed by a walk to catch your breath, then Sprint again, push yourself as hard as you can stand. Hard enough to sweat good. People who work out regularly and push themselves to exhaustion, say everything else in life pales in comparison. Good luck to you. Now go break a good sweat❤

[@mariaserra434]

@@snafuagain5268 I wish it was that easy, I exercised every day and take walks and when I get anxiety I actually have to stop exercising because my heart races and I don’t feel like doing anything.

[@johenderson7786]

I am 73 years old and have been taking Prozac for 35 years. Can I assume that my brain is so changed or damaged that I won't be able to stop taking the drug?

[@Afura33]

Well some people are lucky and never get any withdrawals at all, we don't know yet why cause much studies are not done cause the issue is denied by a lot of doctors. In case you really consider to taper down make a slow tapper, very slow one, there are lot of information about it if you google it. A slow taper can take up to 1-2 years.

[@deestewart3350]

I say.....keep taking them. You were put on them for a reason - they work - stay on them.

[@mazymonroe8749]

​@@deestewart3350absolutely NOT ! Get off these poisons . You will then understand the damage they HAVE done and will continue to do if you choose to stay on them!

[@sethgroves875]

Love u caroline

[@shawnleong3605]

he mentioned he does not wish the effects on his worst enemies. he is wrong. I wish i could force these pills ino every entry point of the psychiatrists' bodies.Most of them have known about the devastating effects all along, but withheld these info from patients because of their "partnerships" with big pharma. While i am glad both of you are speaking up as people of authority, I am disappointed that you think the doctors do not know better.

[@MorganReece]

“A wicked man taketh a gift out of the bosom to pervert the ways of judgment.” Prov.17.23 (wicked man = Big Pharma rep, who may actually believe the product is good!) Another common saying is something like “A gift blinds the eyes.” Point: doctors who are wined and dined by Big Pharma likely believe what they tell patients, because they’ve been blinded to contrary evidence. And as Drs. Mark Hyman, David Perlmutter, Dale Bredesen, Daniel Amen point out, MDs and other Drs. usually receive next to zero training on how diet, gut health, fasting, exercise, saunas, sunlight, etc. affect the brain. I agree with the video, it’s not likely conscious withholding of information. More likely ignorance and possibly self-deception. Frustrating? Yes! But you are doing the smart thing and doing your own research. Way to go! Look for more videos by the docs I mentioned above-they have profoundly improved my life! God bless you! ❤

[@ellekay852]

Great episode. Thank you for mentioning adhd drugs Dr. Leaf. My withdrawal from those was something I would not wish on anyone. Adderall is a horrible drug that is somehow never vilified

[@rochellecaffee3267]

I don’t mean to disrespect your wonderful encouragement, but the electric shocks I get stop immediately when I call out to Jesus. They also have happened to me when certain people like to make me “mind” and don’t like my honesty about certain issues. They seem to have “policing” responsibilities, because I have felt imprisoned for quite awhile.

[@jordand2157]

Jesus is everything 🙌

[@jayadams9794]

Jesus told me to tell you to stop commenting on videos.

[@Chic.Geek75]

Had me a Jesus! 😂😂

[@Afura33]

I think that most doctors somehow know about this issue, but their mind just keep discarding it cause they can not imaging that people and authorities would lie to them.

[@gracegrace1896]

Wish o had known. Psychiatry has destroyed me and my son. I’ve tried to get help. There is none.

[@damianjd1992]

How would you taper off a drug like duloxetine because it's in capsule form and the capsules are extended release so if you split the dose I'm assuming you would need more extended release capsules? And are the capsules specifically designed for the dosage?

[@jessicaward3778]

I started tapering off this drug. I was on a high dose 150mg. My doctor prescribed 20mg capsules and I already had 60mgs and 30mgs. I’m currently on 60mg right now. The side effects were not horrible but I also did have some issues with headaches, body aches, and dizziness. So far my depression and anxiety continues to be manageable. Next I’ll take 40mg using 20 mg capsules, then I’ll use just twenty, and then hopefully all will be good :-)

[@damianjd1992]

@@jessicaward3778 I'm curious to see his book on the guideline for this medication now because he specifically says 5 mg increments, I've been on 40 and skipped doses and had bad side effects like brain zaps, now on 60.

[@jessicaward3778]

@@damianjd1992 so sorry you have been have the brain zaps, that’s scary and I didn’t even know that was a withdrawal symptom until after I had been on that high dose for 10 years. My doctor didn’t suggest it but I was doing my own research and found that some people opened the capsules counted the balls and then only put half or maybe 2/3rd in the capsule and bought extra empty capsules to kind of break the doses down in smaller increments. If I wasn’t do so well with this taper I would go from 40 to 30 to 20 and then split the capsules into “10s” by counting the insides of the capsules

[@damianjd1992]

@@jessicaward3778 I'm sure you could also weigh it, I have a food scale they're pretty cheap on Amazon. But the only thing is I think the capsules are special because they're extended release so you would need similar ones. Wow that's a long time 10 years I just finished my first year. Hope everything goes well for you.

[@jessicaward3778]

@@damianjd1992 thank you so much, you too

[@CustomDecorators]

Short answer: VERY difficult

[@yoga_iaini]

Thanks for the interview, and thanks for sharing some light about ketamine, which is now being advertised/popularised as an alternative safe treatment for depression... I would love a second part of the interview 🤍

[@NotAnotherTheory]

So staying on it for decades can create subtle shrinkage of their brain. Is it reversible ? (I'm guessing yes because of neuroplasticity.

[@lindabeswick5783]

SO many ads! 🙁

[@rochellecaffee3267]

This is how I got off cigarettes and nicotine...very slowly.

[@louisetyler9102]

🤭 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐦𝐨𝐬𝐦