Podcast #73 - Making A Murderer

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Welcome to the Jenna & Julien Podcast where we talk about all the things. If you are looking for your everyday, normal, by the book podcast, then you're in the wrong place. We created this because we tend to have awesome, random, and sometimes drunk conversations that we realized had to be shared with the lovely internet world. So here we are.
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[@natalielawyerchick]

As a defense attorney, I can tell you that you guys are spot on. Juries everywhere are such a problem. I can't say more but the problem is getting worse.

[@elizabethrobertson4890]

I too am in the legal profession (not criminal and in the UK, however). After watching this particular series it strikes me how influential the media can be. The saying "don't believe everything you read in paper" becomes all too real, and never more harmful. Especially in the USA where the death penalty is still in force in some states. It creates a really interesting, but frustrating conflict between freedom of speech and right to a fair trial.

[@natalielawyerchick]

+Elizabeth Robertson the media can be so destructive to a fair trial. People think everything in the news is true

[@JulieDiana1992]

+Elizabeth Robertson I live in saint louis and during the Ferguson Trial the media had a hay day and they had such a hard time finding an unbiased jury because everyone had an opinion about it. The media quite possibly influenced the public opinion

[@itstiphaknee]

why not request a bench trial?

[@bones420usa]

+Tiffany Frederick Lol so you'd prefer the state paid judge to rule on the case presented by the state paid prosecutor,defended by a state paid public pretender.hmmmmm I'd certainly never ever chose a bench trial,that's the dumbest thing anyone can possibly do.Never ever plead guil;ty either for anything,regardless if you did it or not.Fight the cases people,fight them.Our system is fucked from the start when all involved are being paid from the same people.Which means they're fellow employees,meaning they all work together.

[@TopHatKitty]

I was a 21 year old student working at my college and one of the faculty members was talking about getting summoned. I was like, "Man, that sucks." And he looked me dead in the eye and said something to the effect of, "Serving on a jury is a great honor and I am happy to be of service to my country." That was the moment I realized how important it is to take jury duty seriously, and I wish I could tell him the impact he had on me.

[@jenniferhuang3396]

+TopHatKitty I love that, I had a similar experience.

[@TriggerHappy923]

TopHatKitty nope it's still jury dewdy to me. I'm called every fucking year!

[@LaurenRuby]

TopHatKitty I took jury duty so incredibly serious. I cried when I went home because I knew someone's fate was in my hands. It was intense.

[@mirandaclock2244]

I’m 21 and I’ve never been a juror like I would love to do it! How do I do this?

[@TexboyGamer]

@@mirandaclock2244 register to vote, that’s how they determine the pool

[@jxs8747]

I WAS SITTING THERE TRYNNA FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS DIFFERENT THEN I REALISED JULIEN, your chin is re-naked.

[@zxiiy4796]

I will now tell anyone who shaves their face that their face is now re-naked. Thank you for that lol

[@alichan06]

Jenna is all-natural too 💁🏻

[@UnderStandinU2]

I LITERALLY JUST THOUGHT THAT

[@jxs8747]

+zxiiy you are welcome!

[@kierrabarr1776]

When Jenna was talking about a town's police department blaming certain people or family name, that's one of the truest statements I heard. In my town, my family name is known because of my mom, uncles, and cousins having done crimes. I always get picked on by police and security. I'm literally one of the nicest, obedient, following people in my family. I always see myself having to persuade people to think I'm a nice person when my family has put a bad meaning for our name

[@oliviafrank7463]

kierra nicole I know this is a year late but this is a huge issue in so many places. My mom has 13 brothers and sisters and she is the second youngest. She grew up in a tiny town in the midwest and she was always judges by what her siblings did even though a lot of what they did happened before she was even born! The town reffered to the family as "Those damn Davis kids" that had no direction because their dad died when they were young and their mother worked all the time to put a roof over their heads so she was never home. Teachers, police and even business owners harassed my mom and some of her innocent siblings for the crimes of their family. Up until about 10 years ago those "damn Davis kids" (who are now all over 50 years old with families) weren't allowed in a local bar.

[@angiet7380]

kierra nicole Must be a burden. I'm sure the other facets of your life are great though. The universe just has a way of balancing out each individual so that we are all equally fucked, just in different ways

[@DaxG-qp3jf]

I had to leave a town because my (now husband) ran with a stoner crowd in high school and was accused of a crime. They tried to slap him with a felony and terrorism charge. He was unemployable and just arrested over and over because they didnt have evidence to convict. We had to go to a larger city to find a lawyer who walked in there and tore apart everything they did. Hes a happily employed man now

[@TexboyGamer]

@@DaxG-qp3jf it’s a good idea to get involved with either a rich lawyer in your area or if you don’t have the money then lawyer outside of your area. Law is a very corrupt portion of society and many lawyers are afraid of shaking up anything since being popular in the town and with sticking with the status quo is important for them to progress in their careers

[@debramaldonado9809]

I like when Julien talks first and then Jenna afterwards starts acting like a boss and begins spittin facts.

[@Mjkaddict77]

Yeah she always has an interesting view point.

[@debramaldonado9809]

Seriously GO JENNA!! #BOSSBITCH

[@juliality]

Jenna is so BLuuuuuuuuuE

[@KAiiT89]

+Julia Jenna is so GLLLUUUUEEE

[@MicloSculpeyCrafts]

+Kate Swift you beat me to it

[@rachelraps4318]

+MichelGervaisArt I guess she was too swift

[@celiamckinney9679]

Da boo dee da boo da

[@DroppingBeans]

LISTEN UP! This is a story about a blue Jenna. Yeah, all this shit is blue! I'm blue a ba de a ba da!

[@niggasjit]

"This is why we cant have nice things Julien" Lmao!

[@msmichelleleigh]

This show frustrates me for the following reasons: First, Brandon. 1. Brandon was questioned without his legal representation or parent's permission. Pretty sure that it is illegal to question anyone under 18 without either the lawyer or guardian consenting or being present. 2. Almost anything Brandon said or did while in police presence was coerced or said/done under duress. His lawyers should have sought immediately to have his statements thrown out for those reasons. 3. As a defense attorney I would sure as hell have tried my hardest to get Brandon ruled unfit to stand trial as it was clear his mental capacity was not there. Second, Steven As a juror in a trial, as Jenna pointed out, you have to be 100% unbiased. It was basically impossible with the media coverage to find an unbiased juror, and Brandon's defense attorney was smart in asking for an out of county jury. However, it frustrates me TO NO END that these jurors IGNORED that they are to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt when there is absolutely reasonable doubt. Not going to sit here and list every piece of evidence, but the whole investigation was biased as well. THEY SEARCHED THE PROPERTY OVER 10 TIMES. There should have been only 2 searches at max. "EVIDENCE" WAS DISCOVERED BY DEPUTIES WHO WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. The burden of proof lies with the state and they failed to meet the burden of proof. The defense poked holes in everything the prosecution presented and the jurors apparently ignored all of that as well. Link and Colburn clearly should have been examined as their stories change from testimony to testimony and it is my belief that Colburn perjured himself and should face legal charges for doing so. Is Steven guilty? Possibly. Does he deserve a new trial? Absolutely.

[@adriancampbell4004]

+Michelle Fassler Agreed! 100%!! Definitely deserves a new trial! I think they should check into the ex-boyfriend and/or roommate. What's with them figuring out her password and deleting (intentionally or otherwise) messages on her phone?!?!?!?!

[@kylenhogan6126]

+Michelle Fassler My thoughts exactly. I do not know or have opinion on if he is guilty or not. Based upon the evidence that was presented in the courtroom and what was included in the documentary, which they obviously had cut it down to fit within their episodes and time frame, I do believe that the jurors made a horrible mistake. None of the evidence that was presented 100% linked Steven to the crime. Every single piece of evidence was inconclusive, contaminated, or had some other reason to be seriously speculated. There was an incredible amount of reasonable doubt. For the jury to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt was infuriating. Again, I don't know if he committed the crime or not but this trial was unfair from beginning to end. I think that the overall goal of the documentary was to show the injustice, not to be biased on his guilt.

[@mvp4lithuania]

+Michelle Fassler I think you meant to say this STORY frustrated you, not the SHOW. The SHOW is awesome. Even though I cried watching it, it opened my eyes.

[@m00nAlways0nMe]

First of all *Brendon. Second, I agree with you. There were so many illegal things done through this WHOLE THING. And no one batted a fucking eye. This whole thing made me so sad. I don't think either of them are guilty of the crimes they're being accused of. I got SO angry that Brendon just let them do that to him, but he obviously was not of mental capability to even deal with that. I cried at the end, seeing a picture of Brendon at 26.. Still imprisoned for this.

[@ayouaa]

Jenna your hair is like cotton candy!!

[@ayouaa]

+Carlos Chavez yeah that's weird.

[@Aqualad2097]

+Aya Elomrani ok i take it back although i still want cotton candy but not having anything to do with jeana

[@Aqualad2097]

+Carlos Chavez *jenna

[@MuncenBuncen]

+Aya Elomrani if anyone has seen steven universe recently she has garnet hair

[@laurenvanmatre7694]

+Aya Elomrabi i agry i love her hair

[@jordanotten366]

The movie 12 Angry Men is a really good movie! It shows you how serious you should take jury duty. I loved it

[@bumbleandbumble34]

I think you guys raised some really good points about taking jury duty seriously, at the same time you have to realize that some of those people trying to "get out of jury duty" aren't lazy and don't care but they have jobs. A lot of jobs will not pay or, or only pay you a fraction, for days you're on jury duty. And I don't know about everyone else but I can't afford to just sit on a trial for however many days not getting paid as much as I'd like to help the justice system.

[@katiehuete3685]

You don't know how bad I needed to talk or listen to someone talk about this. I've been suffering alone 😩lol

[@ashleydanielle2736]

I feel you on that!

[@jessebirsty2752]

Same !!

[@catiigab]

me too!!

[@bones420usa]

+Katie Huete please sign this petition petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/pardon-steven-avery-and-brendan-dassey-their-alleged-involvement-murder-teresa-halbach

[@katiehuete3685]

+bones420usa way ahead of you ;-) I signed one for his nephew too.

[@Bastenrocken]

Ahhh, how about a MOQ trial? Anyone? :D

[@michaelleggerie1480]

+Bastenrocken like a judge judy-type video but with moq as a judge? this needs to happen

[@Bastenrocken]

Hahaa OhmyGod YES!

[@shummel]

+Bastenrocken Everyone is guilty and everyone is BANNED

[@dingleberryftm7918]

Fuck you I was gonna say that

[@crochetingcanuck]

I'm in Ontario Canada. When I was in high school there was a Canadian law class offered in 12th grade, and one of the units in the course was about how trials work and what the process is for selecting a jury and what jurors do. It was really informative. Unfortunately it was only an elective course and hardly anyone took it. The curriculum has gone through a lot of changes since I finished school so I don't know if they have such a thing now. But they really should have a mandatory law class. There's a lot of stuff that people really should know that most average citizens don't know.

[@Denverslopes]

W shave that in Saskatchewan but ours is called pre law and it's an online course. I didn't personally take it myself but.

[@LadyBass]

Still offered in ontario school! Gr 11 also go on trips to trials too now (not sure if mock trial or not)

[@ayouaa]

+Crocheting Canuck Just finished that up last year in Halifax, we went to some trials too.

[@ameliadimario9874]

I took that class and ever since that class I would love to be on a jury . fellow ontarian lol

[@catacomb999]

Hey I'm from Ontario too 😄 my school offers a few different courses on law but I haven't taken any yet so I'm not sure what they entail lol

[@Lambthrax]

Okay so.... At around the 28:00 minute mark y'all started talking about mock trials and mock elections but all I envisioned was Moq as a jury member or Moq voting on elections. It'd be freaking hilarious to make videos of Julien as Moq in serious everyday situations. Just an idea! But overall great podcast, made me seriously shift my view of jury duty and what we can all do to change people's lives.

[@electricelmaha4033]

London I read this comment before they got to that part and now that's all I'm envisioning so thanks for ruining the seriousness of the podcast. I can think seriously when I'm dying laughing 😂

[@BehindTheSea2]

They way they pronounce Manitowoc kills me 😂

[@aliciadreis8741]

honestly I came here looking for this comment 😂😂

[@angstyintellectual4960]

Manitaowac lmaoooo

[@ashwales5960]

YAY I can listen to you guys while I try get sleepy because insomnia because you're voices are soothing because ily have a fantastic day from New Zealand! Happy nys everybody!

[@ashwales5960]

Yes i did just misspell 'your'

[@jesuisunchevreuil]

Try the "sleep with me" podcast.

[@lyssybarclay]

I love listening to them too before bed:) it's like bed time stories

[@Dzinisis]

I find this podcast and others that are more serious so calming

[@skyletta0626]

I thought I was the only one who did this!

[@donnycutter19]

I can't begin to describe how much i loved Steveys attorneys, those two guys not only are brilliantly intelligent, but their humility as lawyers is what really blew me away

[@rutherke41]

#RIPJuliensBeard

[@emrocksie569]

Oh my god I couldn't put my finger on why was different!! I knew obviously his hair was cut but I couldn't figure it out!! Thank you!!

[@rutherke41]

+Emma Nicholson LOL! It took me a second too. I was like oh my gosh he looks so young!! But the beard is gone!! It's okay. We'll all soon forget he had one anyways.

[@kerin3294]

+Katie Rutherford omg i didnt realise haha, julien looks good either way :D

[@Shelly_W]

+Katie Rutherford I seriously am in mourning about his beard T_T

[@rutherke41]

+Shelly W LOL! It's gonna be okay, y'all!

[@GeniusDetectiveL]

Hear me out, guys. So, I live in a rural town, jury duty may involve driving up to four hours away and having to book a hotel for multiple days, depending on how long the trial goes on. These are expenses that are not covered, and the amount of money that is given as a replacement for normal wages that would be earned usually doesn't even match a given person's daily pay. Not to even touch on potential child care/ pet care/ gas/ food costs that might get involved. I totally agree that there are a large number of people that come up with excuses to avoid this civic duty. However, just writing all of those people off as lazy is pretty frustrating, considering how much you are willing to look at different angles in a general sense, even within other topics you discussed on this podcast.

[@paulJforte99]

Thats pretty fair in most situations, like if the trial is something small. But in a murder trial do you not think its worth it anyway, even with all those complications? A man/womans whole life and reputation are at risk, which i think is worth more than a few days exspense in a hotel and some time off work. I see where you're coming from but i do believe if we have a chance to make the system a little more fair and ensure people arent wrongly imprisioned then we should do what we can

[@emilyillies6594]

+Taylor Davis I totally agree with you!! I had a situation last year where I had to go up 3 hours away. I left my husband and daughter and wasn't going to go home until at least a week and a half if not more. hotel expenses were out of my pocket along with food and anything else needed to stay in the hotel..you don't get paid until after and its hard to find the funds usually! Plus, to top it all off I was 7 months pregnant! I don't think they meant it for every single person but it is good you pointed it out so some others get it! :)

[@lunarsugar]

This is exactly what I was thinking.

[@Nat-lb8nu]

I didn't even watching making a murderer but this podcast got me so fired up, I'm gonna watch it now.

[@ellipsisms]

I still think either her brothet or her ex did it. They were never questioned and her ex made a statement that really left me questioning his innocence. But the most fucked up part is the kid, he clearly had a learning problem and he'd admit to being Hitler if someone told him to.

[@goddammitalana]

yes he clearly had a learning disability and was interrogated multiple times by those two cops without his parent present.that alone should make his testimony invalid.

[@Kittiez100]

I live in Australia and I had a class at high school called Legal Studies and we learnt a lot about reasonable doubt, the legal system and being in a Jury. I feel like all countries should have classes like this!

[@jonb4820]

Julien, you look 10x better shaved and Jenna your hair is hella fleeked out

[@amy1651]

I think she can pull the colours off and they look amazing but I do miss the blonde!!!

[@LivFP]

+Jon b That's nice to say that he looks good but, kinda rude to say "10x better" than the way he was for that long time.

[@korey1293]

+Liv MadeYouLaugh lets not be too sensitive for other people.

[@ryemild115]

+Liv MadeYouLaugh I'm sure this comment hasn't emotionally crippled him, don't worry.

[@Reiiyne]

+SyndexAwesome lol RIP Kati.

[@HunterBoyleReacts]

You should watch Murder on a Sunday Morning by HBO as well. It happened in Jacksonville FL. Really interesting case against the sheriffs dept who beat a 15 yr old kid into a false confession.

[@tay_bear5210]

Hunter Boyle lol i live there I remember it

[@rachelmk10]

Having to work is a completely legitimate excuse for not serving on jury duty. The problem is the law does not require employers to pay their employee while they are serving. I know in our situation we would not be able to afford our mortgage payment if a week of work is missed. Then it is hard to get a good jury because it is not made up of a mixed dynamic (as in not much working class included). That's just my understanding.. could be different..

[@rachelmk10]

+rachelmk10 Also the whole system is messed up.. its more like guilty until proven innocent. How much time is served for different things and how it all adds up.. the system is just so flawed

[@TexboyGamer]

@@rachelmk10 the system is actually very good. But occasionally bad actors muck things up, just like in anything. It reminds me of how OJ got off because the detective tried to frame him. OJ probably did the crime, but since evidence came out that showed a detective tried to plant evidence he was eventually let off. Our system has things in place in case of failure

[@kelligriffith5221]

as someone from wisconsin hearing people who aren't from wisconsin trying to pronounce our town names is always a reliable way to entertain me

[@JennieKerfuffle]

I seriously don't understand how people can NOT like jury duty. I'm not 18 yet, but it seems like the closest thing I'll ever get to being in an intense movie. It seems super interesting and important. Hell, I'd volunteer for jury duty.

[@anyalaASMR]

Please take my spot I'm very socially anxious lmao

[@morganchaires182]

Doing it now. I love it it’s so fun and interesting!

[@NamiOnDaRocks]

Having to take a week off work would make you hate it. Some people wouldn't be able to make their rent or mortgage without that week of work. To drive maybe a few hours away sometimes. Hotels, day care, food, etc. If they fully covered the expenses then I'm sure alot more people will be willing to serve.

[@kerin3294]

always impressed by julien's sponsorship transitions hahaha

[@katieclaire3821]

I live in Wisconsin, very close to Manitowoc and the way Julian pronounced it had me on the floor laughing. It's actually pronounced Man-i-toe-walk just saying

[@kat0153050]

Katie Claire I agree I almost died I'm sitting here yelling at my phone saying it the right way.

[@mel2call]

When I was in middle school we had a mock trial that was amazing. It felt legit we actually went downtown to the courthouse, everyone wore professional attire and I was a member of the Jury. I loved that experience. I will never forget that experience.

[@ashleypitts7750]

Jenna's description of how juror selection works is so spot on! Both times I've been summoned, I was so shocked by the shit people will share or openly admit to a room full of strangers when questioned by a judge, and a lot of times it seems very much like a way to try to get out of it. It actually becomes so frustrating!

[@VickyBdotTV]

I am having a very hard time believing that a man who spent 18 years in jail would commit such a heinous crime just to be put in jail again. I don't think he's that stupid to commit and murder and jeopardize $36 million. I have so many thoughts and feelings about this case, just the fact that both Coburn and Lenz were the ones that found most of the physical evidence pointing to Avery should be suspicious enough, especially since they were both named in the $36 million wrongful conviction suit.

[@Veroicone]

Our system is a joke, which is unfortunate because the outcome is usually results in someone's life getting ruined. I've never been called for jury duty, but if I was I'd like to think I'd take it seriously regardless of what the case was about. I started watching the show, but haven't finished it yet ... but this makes me want to finish it now >_>

[@almagarcia8842]

I definitely need to have a mock trial for my future high school students. Thanks for the idea and giving more perspective on the show.

[@almagarcia8842]

ALSO, yes I am replying to myself months after this podcast was put up but I was called for jury duty and everyone's initial response was along the lines of "well you're a college student so you can get exempted" or "you have a cold" like NO I wanna go because it is a very interesting process to me that I looked forward to being called for since I turned 18. Yes I may be a college student and yes I may have a cold but this is part of doing your duty as a citizen. Call me the unpopular opinion puffin but I am glad I was called to be a juror. Rant over. And if you're a random dink fam member who read through this, just know I appreciate you and hope you have a fabulous day and do something to make you feel good.

[@lenekristin1808]

Thanks for suggesting this. I had been seeing it on netflix a lot, but I hadn't been around to check it yet. But after I listened to this podcast, I went straight home and started watching it. I could literally not stop watching. I have never been as frustrated watching anything in my life. I was frustrated after watching "The Jinx" after you guys talked about it, but this was a whole new level of frustrating. I was sat in the living room talking to myself, my dog must of thought I was more crazy the she knew! I mean, there was so much that didn't add up, or for me wouldn't have a leg to stand on. So thanks a lot for taking time to talk about this on the podcast, if not I probably wouldn't of seen it in ages :) You guys rock!

[@regisatlas]

I don't think anyone can say, with absolute certainty, that he's guilty or not guilty. I don't even think that's important right now. They HAVE to assume that you're not guilty if they can't find enough evidence. And they haven't found enough evidence. Not even close to it. But it is fun to play devil's advocate. I also agree with Jenna, that it's unacceptable for the jury and probably the judge to come into that courtroom with so much bias and already formed opinions. And the fact that the more aggressive, stubborn jurors basically manipulated the other jurors to find him guilty. You just can't have weak jurors like that. And wow, are you kidding me!? People in the USA don't like jury duty? I'd be all over that shit lol But the jury isn't the only one to blame. The police did and covered up so much shit as well. And of course Steven isn't a saint, but there's just not enough evidence to put him in jail. It's not fair. If you guys want to watch something similar, I'd recommend Th Staircase. It's pretty dope. Paradise Lost, as well. It's about the West Memphis Three. A shame you guys didn't mention the absolutely awesome lawyers Steven had. Dean Strang slaysss life af

[@jennifergunnman]

Jenna and Julien! If you haven't watched 12 angry men, watch it now! It was all I could think about when you were talking about jury duty. It is pretty old, from the 60's I believe, but it is one of the best movies I have ever seen! Watch it now, now, now!

[@angiet7380]

I also attended a public high school in Los Angeles , and during our senior year we did learn about jury duty, tax forms, retirement funds, etc.

[@camrenk354]

I am so glad you guys are talking about this it's an amazing documentary

[@regisatlas]

YES, this is literally everything I've been waiting for, I'm so damn excited! That show has consumed my entire life, go watch it people what are you even doing

[@mavistheturtle4105]

There's this cop who is a friend of my dad's who has to deal with the drunk and mostly under-aged college kids who wake up in alleys or whatever. We live in Colorado, and he's from Australia and has a THICK accent. So he'll go and wake them up and be like " hey, do you know where you are" and shit like that in his really thick accent making the kids think they woke up in Australia or some shit. I think some humor like that in cops is ok since he's dealing with hammered college kids, but certain things shouldnt be acceptable in cops like biased opinions. If you cant throw away your opinions and just find the evidence, you shouldn't be qualified to be a cop. Or at least you shouldn't be allowed to work on that case if it is on a personal level.

[@kinskins100]

Where in Colorado? I live there too. I live in Westminster!

[@mavistheturtle4105]

Oh cool! I live in Fort Collins.

[@battyb3080]

That is soooo funny.

[@KS-tn3ot]

Monument, CO here!! Your comment made me literally laugh my ass off!

[@kinskins100]

+Mavistheturtle awesome!

[@katherines614]

love watching you guys discuss topics you are passionate about.....i agree with all of this

[@love51492]

Jenna's question are killing me! "Ok.. Ok. So he's a normal guy. No yellow feet.." 😂😂😂

[@labrujanat]

because of the podcast i remembered to fill out the juror questionaire i might have coming up so thanks guys

[@Sarahleighdyer]

Is it just me or does Jenna look exceptionally good here.

[@beier2431]

So pumped you guys talked about Making a Murder! I am from Wisconsin and didn't even watch the documentary until I saw your Vlog saying you were watching it. I, obviously along with everyone else, do not know if Steven is innocent or guilty. After all the 18 years in spent in prison being wrongly convicted could have easily messed with his mind, but as a juror they are asked WITHOUT a reasonable doubt to convict someone. How he was found guilty is absolutely insane to me. A re-trial definitely needs to happen. Love you guys! You are both so incredibly honest and intelligent.

[@TheLaussl30]

PREACH! Jenna talking about jury duty is exactly what I tell my friends who complain. I get picked and I'm stoked, ready to do this even though I'm sure it'll be a petty drug crime because of the area I am in, but the case always gets settled out of court. I have yet to actually sit on a jury and I am so down for it. I really want to know inside details on cases and that's a big part of why, but if I were to need a trial of my peers some day, I pray they are there with the mindset that there's nowhere else as important to be in that moment when a person's freedom, and potentially life, are at risk.

[@notakarentheworld]

Brb binge watching the series before I finish this podcast 👍🏻

[@notakarentheworld]

OKAY IM BACK!

[@TheCrazyMango82]

Even if he did have to go to jail the second time, they’d still owe him $36M

[@amarahpark2924]

Been listening to these since #1 and they get better every time! Love you guys

[@xxSuperStarLizzy]

I love your serious discussions like this! You guys are so intelligent and nice to listen to. I really like hearing what y'all have to say about stuff like this.

[@kinskins100]

It's not always about the "laziness", it's about the fact that some people make $15 an hr and support themselves all on their own! I can't pay bills when I lose a week of that money! Jury duty only pays $7.25 an hr! So, it's not about laziness all the time, it's about the pay and how I can't not pay my bills because of a case.

[@meganmena377]

often times. clearly shes not talking about you. and you are still getting paid.

[@TeodoraLittvay]

FETUS JULIEN ALERT. Love the new hair man, but I also loved the beard. Hopefully the short hair and beard combination will come around again in the future. And Jenna guuurl you look beautiful in this video with just your eyebrows done / minimal makeup!

[@allisonrenee638]

I love watching your opinions on subjects. You both always seem to see both sides and can back both sides up, it's fun to watch.

[@haleighmiranda5381]

I got this notification and was soooo happy you guys are doing a podcast on this!!!!! I'm going to finish this podcast after work today eeeekkkkkk!

[@Linzepop]

Forever waiting for the podcast where they actually time the music to their singing in the beginning :D haha

[@Jay-bw8ye]

Rewatching all the podcasts. 😭

[@rachealorion5786]

This documentary has literally changed my life! I'm about to watch this podcast haven't yet watched it but I'm so glad that this is getting more and more recognition. Let's hope they get a re-trial!

[@emmabroughan9062]

I have never been more excited to see a video in my sub box 😍 So many feelings about this documentary!!!!!

[@MrJherime]

Jenna is stupid amounts of cute

[@garnyxmulherin1075]

The interrogation of the nephew straight up pissed me off. I'm not being anything but genuinely concerned when I say that Brendan might have mental disadvantages. He spoke in simplistic terms, he was with drawn from the situation entirely, like emotionally, and that's what I have a problem with. Those who don't have the ability to express themselves clearly and eloquently fall under the risk of what happened to Brendan. They put things in his mouth, they put him under mass amounts of stress, they didn't diagnose him, they took advantage of him. Prison isn't a joke, guys. Shit goes down in the cells that I can't begin to imagine, and I probably don't know about. What I can say is that since Brendan did show signs that he was on the Autistic Spectrum, no one spoke up for him and said, "Hey, this isn't right."

[@JordanWalston]

I love that you guys film these. I havent ever been a huge fan of podcasts but I LOVE these. Keep up the great content guys:)

[@abbyz13]

I love this. Serial was my life this last week

[@timmyg6749]

Jenna is like a fricken majestic unicorn, omfg!!!

[@jessicaanderson5040]

I'm not trying to be all nit picky but I loved the way you butchered saying Manitowoc. I'm sure the way you said it was how Indians said it when they named it or whatever but we Wisconsinites say it with the emphasis on "man". idk how to describe it but I love you guys. That's the most important part, right?

[@jessicaanderson5040]

Jenna said it perfect!

[@Sarah-on3qv]

I cringed SO hard when he said both Manitowoc and "wesCONsin" ahhhh

[@gracewilson3254]

+Sarah Hjelsand r you guys from manitowoc

[@jessicaanderson5040]

+Grace Wilson no I grew up about 50 miles away. Currently I live in Milwaukee.

[@merisagirl18]

I live in Sheboygan and I cringed everytime Julian pronounced Manitowoc.

[@ThisIsMeMorgan]

YESSS! I'm so excited to hear y'all talk about this!

[@walrusrider8993]

I really agree with the points you guys made! I love the podcasts and appreciate you guys using your social standing to spread awareness about things that are really important for people to be aware of!! thank you

[@LivingMyDreamLife]

Who's the little kid sitting next to Jenna?

[@UnderStandinU2]

I'm not sure, but he looks a lot like Julien without a beard! But I thought "nah! Julien wouldn't shave his beard" so I assume it was one of his family members lol

[@lilitay666]

RIGHT!!! OMG

[@LOVEanneLOVE]

I was freaking out because I thought you were talking about a ghost & Im alone in the dark 'o'

[@cayleesmith71]

the cousins who found the car said there were no license plates and then used the # on the driver side front window. ... where did the plates come from?!

[@Dbugg003]

Jenna talking about jury duty reminded me that I need to respond to my notice asap 😆 Thanks for the reminder girl!

[@claricerivera6129]

Thank you for talking about this. It is so frustrating knowing that our judicial system sucks ball!! It's so obvious that the evidence doesn't match up. Brendan Dassey said they cut her throat while she was tied to the bed yet there is not a drop of blood in his trailer and not one clue that she was tied to the bed!!! How much more proof do the jurors need that Brendan didn't know what he was talking about!! I live in Wisconsin and have been following this case from the day it started and I'm ashamed of the Manitowoc County Sherrifs Department.

[@suzietalbot8045]

The american system got me fucked up, they have to prove there innocence while in Canada you need to prove you're guilt (which also has its own problems.) My blood is still boiling from watching this series.

[@ameliadimario9874]

what do you mean by in Canada you have to prove your guilty

[@alark2213]

Technically in the US judicial system it is supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty" however, that's rarely the case. With the crazy media and everything else it's really hard to get a fair trial.

[@badwolfgermandalek]

+Ashley LeClaire no, you obviously don't know how juried work. They pick people who have no idea about the case, like if if was the casey Anthony case, the jury had no idea it was all over the news.

[@sp3300]

+badwolfgermandalek They don't know for a fact that the jury hasn't seen or read about the case, they just have to take their word for it and in the time that we're living in it's kind of hard to avoid big news stories like that.

[@juliefr0g]

No, you prove guilt in America too. Innocent until proven guilty. lol 2 years later

[@misstrist3561]

I'm confused, Jenna has 16 mil subs. But there podcast has 200,000...wtf.

[@lunarsugar]

Good keep the fam in the fam

[@BeautyNewb]

I was dying at my work desk guys 😂 Jenna's giggles gave me the giggles. And Julian slaying those segways for sponsors. Fire

[@fadedcinderella]

So happy your doing this podcast!! IT was such an amazing and frustrating documentary to watch

[@Polina-ms8yi]

When i looked at the thumbnail I was like " Where's julien and who is that"

[@blackrosedog]

nice podcast!! i think someone's nose was whistling the whole time though

[@KendallScreechOwl]

+Christiana Wilburn Not that I want to speak for Julien, but he has been having issues with his asthma lately.

[@battyb3080]

+Kendall Seigworth nah that deffinatley sounded like a nose whistle boogie😀

[@blackrosedog]

either way, not hatin', it was just a bit distracting

[@Mandela219]

+Christiana Wilburn lol i was searchin the comments for somethin on that! Julien! that nose whistle though... hahahah whistle while you work

[@1farahnaz]

Ugh thanks for pointing it out, now I can't listen to this anymore because I keep hearing it 😒

[@wanderers5641]

You guys are amazing

[@SweetD779]

Absolutely love this podcast and I watched that show and it's insane how the whole trial and case went! He deserves a new trial and jury along with that.

[@JustSheilz]

This series was so sad to me. It reminded me that anyone can be railroaded if they don't have the money for a good defense. While this documentary may be one-sided, I think his treatment during the process was definitely suspect.

[@neirad537]

They didn't find the key until months later.

[@CcBloom777]

And what ever happened to the evidence that the key was scrubbed clean with only Steven's blood on it, and not the victim's? so crazy

[@CorinneMicheleee]

+CcBloom777 and no finger prints!!

[@ToddyWithaHotdog]

What got me was the tampered blood vile, I thought for sure that would be a huge breakthrough but it was completely disregarded.

[@SarahStewart14]

I OBSESSED after this case after I watched the series. Read transcripts and everything. Pretty crazy stuff!

[@carolinef1628]

YES! Perfect timing for me as I just finished the show 😇 love you guys

[@Binkbonkin]

Might seem odd, but like, I've always wanted to be on Jury Duty

[@michaelaking6608]

As a person who lives in Wisconsin and has traveled to Manitowoc county The series has a very negative bias to it. I agree 100% that the system is wrong in the way the jury was pick and the trial was run but the series seems to down completely on Wisconsin. It seems to be so one sided. But it's a Netflix series and its purpose is to make money and to grab attention which it did and has done. It however is just too one sided.

[@jlsinkula]

+Michaela King I have family that knows the Avery's personally. The netflix series is skewed. Badly.

[@regisatlas]

+Michaela King It is a bit biased, but you can't say that he is guilty when you actually think about it and research it.

[@michaelaking6608]

+Elyssae I do agree with that whole heartedly. It was wrong as Jenna puts it for people stuck in their ways and opinions to wrongly convict a man.

[@JordanWickRacing]

+Michaela King what does traveling somewhere have to do with facts?

[@JordanWickRacing]

+Michaela King I live in Wisconsin too but I listen to facts to gain knowledge because thats common sense

[@seahan1221]

I don't know if you guys have ever read "amusing ourselves to death" by Neil postman but it is almost exactly what you were talking about when you said that we need skepticism when in regards to the news.

[@Fgutttt]

So glad you guys are talking about this

[@theyamiletrivera10]

Julien's baby face 😍

[@autumnplant]

omg please you guys!!! watch Soaked in Bleach on Netflix and its sorta the same feel do a podcast on that and it will make my life!!!!!! pleaseeee!!!!

[@maddyconnolly1504]

His transitions give me life😂😂

[@jessicaturner9250]

Yessss I cAnt wait to listen to this whole thing I just finished it the other day! Omgggg

[@threecupsoftea1639]

Is your podcast not on iTunes anymore? I tried to unsubscribe and sunscribe again, but you last three episodes haven't shown up in the iphone podcast app. Looooove your podcast. And you!

[@uncomfortable1422]

There must be something wrong with your podcasts app because they are showing up fine for me

[@UnderStandinU2]

+Anabelle isn't funny same here

[@dominosmiles]

Same idk why it's doing that

[@elihaafkens2426]

Jenna, you look so cute with that knot and headpohnes on!

[@amyrandles390]

Also I loved the twenty questions thing, it's really funny, you guys should do it again!x

[@freypatrick5923]

One of the things that made me the angriest was the interrogation of the nephew. I'm so glad you mentioned that, because that was so sick to watch. And thank you for talking about the jury, I've been waiting for a while for someone to talk about that aspect. I just rewatched the series after falling down a true crime rabbit hole, and it's so interesting to hear more people talk about this.

[@carlychaput6398]

I want to know how a jury could find Steve not guilty of mutilating a corpse, but could find Brendan guilty of it... If they were really going off of the "confession" then they needed to believe all of it or none of it and in terms of all of it, Brendan said he didn't put the body in the fire, that Steve did, yet Steve was found innocent of that and Brendan wasnt... How does that work?

[@wvmetsfan]

Great point!

[@XthecadburykidX]

The thing is that they couldn't mix evidence from each trial. The fact that Steven Avery was found not guilty had absolutely no relevance to Brendan's trial. It's frustrating, and I still can't believe a sane jury would convict Brendan because it was so patently obvious that he was taken advantage of.

[@carashea7251]

They both look fresh as fuck in this new year video..

[@SwtLeelee]

I love that you made this a podcast cuz im obsessed with this making a murberer show eeekkkk

[@shaylahelrick13]

When you’ve lived in Wisconsin your whole life and realize not everyone knows how to pronounce your crazy city names 😂

[@my_quiet_riot]

Lol right