PODCAST: The Dangers of Chaos Magick

[@TommieKelly]

Do you have any concerns with Chaos Magick?

[@Special-Delivery57]

Adventures In Woo Woo Perhaps beyond any psychological model ,involving magic, the constant known laws that are known can only be pushed or bent only so far for any goal one might have. Another view ,using the energy model of magic, is that perhaps enough astral life-force energy must be gathered and cultivated with extended periods of careful and highly concentrated focus ,but even then this may just increase synchronicity and not necessarily do things like cure diseases and such. From a chaos magick perspective I am also content with subjective lowercase t truth ,but in my personal practice I combine chaos magick with a long-standing result oriented tradition which seems to somehow get more results than just using the barebones chaos magick of belief. I don’t preach that my views are correct or right ,but instead I carefully play and experiment with my explorations with the goal of simply learning. What have I learned? I’ve learned that things often happen as a result of my experiments and rituals and that more often than not the results come through to either show me that I can get the results that I desire or that all of nature is laughing and playing with me. I’ve only had a small number experiences that were outside the chaos paradigm that were things right in my face. There have been numerous times that pure chaos magick alone absolutely took me by surprise and kept me guessing ever since. The times chaos magick didn’t give me the result I desired there were still strange synchronicities that echoed or reflected what I desired but without giving me what I wanted. Similar to quantum-paradox I accept any and all contradictions in regards to results whether by chaos magick or through a traditional model. I’ve learned to be okay with never figuring everything out. There is freedom to be found in such acceptance. The power of acceptance has gotten me far. My concern with chaos magick is that I think people should experiment with a number of models of magick carefully and apply whatever has allowed them to get results if any. I say that each person should find their own inner shaman and to become a frenzied emotionally charged madman or madwoman and to be creative. There seems to be something very powerful in such an application. I sometimes think that all chaos magick is traditional magic and that traditional magic has always been chaos magick. This may reflect the idea of quantum paradox. One or several things being both true and untrue simultaneously. My main view is to be the actor that loses oneself in character for a short time and then to pay attention to what happens afterwards. Your work is beautiful.❤️💀🦉❤️

[@Relmyna]

Nope.

[@Special-Delivery57]

Have you ever decided to not do a ritual for your desire ,or decided to do nothing, and then after thinking about that desire the desire manifested anyway?

[@TommieKelly]

Yea, this is why, I guess, we should not let "the fear" take over.

[@TommieKelly]

@j p Google: Advanced Magick for Beginners by Alan Chapman.

[@Healitall]

I am just 4 minutes in and I did not expect that I went through the same journey as you in assuming to find a "Truth" and expecting that there would be a consensus about it. I ended up feeling like if my experience did not fit some of the others it was not good enough. I ran after other people's expectations as my goals. Because of my history, growing up as a Jehovahs witness, I always felt I have to constantly adjust to others and their expectations of me. Again I ended up feeling I had to fight against the constant contradictions I heard and saw, trying to find clarity. I took so long before I realised I could not find it in consensus and my way of doing magic is good enough. I had to relearn to find myself.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

Do you have concerns with grey and negative magick?

[@Binkers78]

I think a lot of people are drawn to concepts like The Law of Attraction because they want to feel in control. Life is more unpredictable than they want to accept! Great podcast!

[@TommieKelly]

yea, very true. People REALLY don't like the idea that sometimes bad stuff happens to good people or for no reason.

[@snake25pt1]

I understand your view. It is a thing that I thought about chaos magic. For me the problem of chaos magic is thinking that magic works always to change, create a chaos on a order of things that would occur *naturally*. In some way they are right but its much more. Its better to not be attach to just one point of view. It blind us

[@TommieKelly]

Exactly that. Or thinking in absolutes. Or probably more correctly - thinking that if things don;t work every time then they don;t work at all. Some things only work some times.

[@allenwillis567]

My view on chaos magick is that my truth is learnt from experience but I'm not stupid when it come to natural lore. I like the concept of no dogma and I'll try almost everything in a way that benefits me and those around me.

[@allenwillis567]

You don't know what you don't know. As much as I understand the argument of you cause your reality, if ones not aware you can't change that for them. I believe that I can only really work in my healing, if someone comes to me with healing, I'm still healing myself which heals them.

[@markbarrera6807]

I listened to your Scrying eye -gazing podcast today. Brilliant. I too had doubts of my own ideas, and needed validation, particularly where magic or witchcraft is involved. But I confused not being able to SHARE ideas and experiences with others with needing validation that I was correct. Trying to be more independent agent.

[@TommieKelly]

That's a good move. Mark. I also spent far too long thinking I needed other people to agree with me for my views to be valid. Not a good way to approach things at all.

[@richardspeedracernordstran2566]

It is by will alone a set my mind in motion.

[@mandyriccobena3225]

My experience is there has to be balance. It’s kind of like Bruce Almighty when Jim Carrey lassos the moon. If your magic is going to cause chaos to be unbalanced it won’t work. There is such a thing as organised chaos

[@shadako2]

I think I saw a video or pdf about this, and it may have been related to attraction or even pickup artistry lol. one part was talking about pretending to assume a reptillian god form. Like breathwork, then feeling the claws grow, your voice change etc. The author was talking about doing this on an airplane while going to a holiday or similar. Have been trying to find that technique because it is so out there compared to other material

[@ReallyRedPanda]

Gordon White. I have his book Chaos Protocols and this exercise is described right at the end. Freaky stuff. If not his book, you probably saw it on his blog or heard it on his podcast - both are called RuneSoup.

[@ReallyRedPanda]

From The Chaos Protocols: Annunaki Godform Assumption "In this case, begin the godform assumption when you are on an airplane as it begins to speed up and take off. Picture your hands and feet morphing into three-taloned claws, your second set of eyelids blinking, your height extending by several feet, and allow a cold, calculating, uncaring personality to arise…like you are being dispatched to sort of a recalcitrant province of disposable ape men. Become an interloping Lord of the Earth. It all seems fairly innocuous until you try it. The assumption triggers in me a metallic, influenza taste in my mouth that is my indicator I have wandered into a less salubrious corner of the imaginal realm. Retain this impression until about cruising altitude and then let it melt into the background. (For some reason this works better for me on take-off rather than landing. But I am usually pretty drunk by the time we land.) The personality change is remarkable, particularly in someone who is not overly misanthropic. No, really. And I will just add that it was a mere several months-perhaps six flights in all-of trialling this assumption before the startup I was working for was acquired by a large, publicly listed media company, netting me the single biggest windfall of my life so far."

[@shadako2]

@@ReallyRedPanda Yeah that was it... thanks.

[@__namespace4602]

I would agree that psychology is a core component to getting one's magick to either work or fail. I honestly feel that there is no spell/law that can not be successfully implemented in this universe by a human. If one fails at getting the desired results then one must look over their methodology and modify it. Based on the example sigils I've seen promoted in books and online, I'm not surprised that most would be experiencing failure. What you said about LaVey made me wonder a bit. I understand the idea of acknowledging "one getting their desired results" as a magickal event in order to strengthen their magickal foothold. At the same time it makes sense that one would normalize the event as normal. I would like to know more about why he said that. Did he experience it first hand I wonder?

[@TommieKelly]

Well, I guess that could just be my bad explaining it. I get what you say about making magic the norm, but I think what he is pointing at is more acknowledging that magic happened rather than not.

[@shaunepp8658]

Why don't you read the "Law of Attraction" it talks about what you are going on about. Also you want to develop a belief in what you're doing because that has a big effect on its success.

[@TommieKelly]

The Abraham-Hicks book? I read most of them. They're OK. The best LOA book, imo, is Reality Transurfing.

[@edwardsullivan5884]

I see a lot of people fall down the Crowley path when it comes to any magick, and I think that's one of the biggest pitfalls. He purported to overcome and shed societal conditioning, but all he did was go in the other direction versus rise above. "Spit in the eye of Christ," sounds pretty spiteful to me, something that was heavily influenced by his parents. Not to diminish what he's accomplished, he's incredibly brilliant, but he also died a sad junkie all alone.

[@TommieKelly]

The whole dying broke and alone story doesn't actually seem to be true though. Hastings was far from a luxury home, but it was equally far from destitute. Also, he had money as he left money in his will for a book to published.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

Totally agree 💯

[@derrickbaustin]

As I as was walking Chaos Magick popped into my mind's- eye. Than, I find your Podcast. I thank you for being a freethinker, people like you save the world from useless traditions.

[@TommieKelly]

Thanks for having a listen, Derrick!

[@zexaaltieri7854]

I think you putting your stuff out there to me is an opportunity for a different perspective, i think its a mix of it all in terms of an approach, an air of affirmation, a splash of artsy fartsy and as well a creative birth to something akin to a spiritual creation be it autonomous or not when i dabbled when i first came across it last year it was very much subconsciously just an artistic allure i honestly dont think i had the heart in it originally to actually produce anything akin to a result from the act because spiritually and psychologically i wasn't there ive been umming and arring over whether i should give what i believe my coworker called a shoal a try but unless i know im feeling that sense of "right were gonna do this and get some results" in the sense of moving forward with a sense of know ing yes it may work to a degree but being new to it, like most things there will be kinks to work out and methods to re-evaluate. This is probably the first podcast I've ever listened to but have to say im glad i was recommended to find you on youtube as this was a thoroughly enjoyable listen alot of food for thought

[@TommieKelly]

Thanks for having a listen, glad you enjoyed it. if you want to know more about shoaling then google "Rune Soup Sigils" if I give you the direct link YT will mark this message as spam, so that's the best I can do :) Shaoling is great!

[@zexaaltieri7854]

@@TommieKelly omg thank you soo much i shall do hahaha i miss non psycho law youtube or intern i miss when people didn't know they could miss behave 😂😂 seriously thank you really appreciate it ill have a good gander at that

[@edwardsullivan5884]

@adventures in woo woo A good teacher teaches you how to think, not what to think. I also think the basis of magick is 5+6=11. Creating a dialogue with your Higher Self/Intuition, and merging the subjective with the objective.

[@TommieKelly]

Very few good teachers knocking about then :)

[@beamer7]

Edward Sullivan can you e plain more about the 5+6= 11?

[@edwardsullivan5884]

@@beamer7 The Rosey Cross which is explained in DuQuette's Understanding Crowley is a good place to start. 5 represents the individual, 6 represents intuition, potential and higher self. One definition of magick is Knowledge and Conversation of/with your Holy Guardian Angel. But your HGA is still you. Its about a transformation, like Carl Jung's Individuation. Much of psychology was founded on occult teachings like this.

[@beamer7]

Edward Sullivan ok. Cause I’m noticing how the number 11 and 1111 are being used and promoted. Even in music and pop culture

[@TheIgnoranceOfTheMasses]

Chaos magick usually involves...knowledge.

[@TommieKelly]

Well, to me Chaos Magick is all about practice and actually doing stuff over knowledge. That seems to be the whole point of it and why it was created in the first place. Obviously you need knowledge too, as with any subject. To be fair, I don;t really think I understand your point here.

[@carver6794]

You can practice whatever you want, but without understanding how everything fits together you are larping

[@TommieKelly]

So you know how everything fits together then?

[@starshade7826]

Chaos Magic is sufficiently amorphous that making any generalizations about it is usually going to result in a generalization fallacy on par with claiming "All Women Are Redheads"

[@TommieKelly]

Is there a particular thing I said in the podcast that you are referring to? Or just a general statement about Chaos Magick? Been awhile since I recorded this.

[@RosaneFeicCravo]

I Saw your work i have study

[@earthdance11]

Creating within Sacred LAw all is permissible. Choas LAw does not acknowledge there are Laws that part of the Creation and we are all subject to them. Learning about NAtural/Moral LAw is essential to creating a best life as possible. People do create their lives within the 80 - 20 Law - 80% being under the person and 20 the will of "Creation" We are here to learn how to create and raise our consciousness. Anyone using chaos magic for "money" will see the consequences of this unless the money serves their SPiritual growth. We are spirits having a human experience. The better human we become the more our Spirits grow in wisdom.

[@TommieKelly]

From where I stand "Everything is permitted" - to me, it seems like you have made up a whole bunch of limitations and rules you feel is right to live by - which is great if they work for you, but probably not great to go around demanding your UPG is the capital T truth and all that. "Anyone using chaos magic for "money" will see the consequences of this unless the money serves their SPiritual growth." - I'd love to see your proof on that. Doesn't seem that way from my experience or that of a number of others I have spoken to over the years. But thanks for leaving a message and having a listen to the podcast. Be well! :)

[@richardspeedracernordstran2566]

Nothing is real .......yet all is permitted. 😏

[@tammydeighan1021]

You rock, Tommy 🍀💚🍀

[@TommieKelly]

Thank you, Tammy!

[@tammydeighan1021]

@@TommieKelly 💚

[@TheOneArmadillo]

Cool. Balanced perspective :)

[@TommieKelly]

Thanks for having a listen!

[@auriconics7514]

Nice podcast really gave me some insight ..but like you say people will find what works for them more and also it won't work for others and I think we all have different belief filters as like some eat meat and some don't but stil get spiritual result you know it comes down to belief.aslong as people creat won't makes them happy

[@TommieKelly]

Yea which is why it can be sometimes unhelpful to share notes, in a way. What works for me, may not work for you and trying to do it my way may just lead to nothing but frustration for you. Thanks for having a listen.

[@richardspeedracernordstran2566]

The future of chaos Magik 2020 something is comming . It is a gift. Other might call it the end of days. It is comming and it could either be a new dawning of all humans comming togather, or not!!!

[@TommieKelly]

I can't disagree with the sentiment that "somthing is comming or not". Never a truer word spoken. :)

[@richardspeedracernordstran2566]

@@TommieKelly Thanks for the kind words Ricky tin tin

[@onomatopoeia2223]

Couldn't agree more. Definitely feels like something is coming ... might get rough for awhile but in the long run going to be great for the planet as a whole . imo

[@luaharmsen23]

.....It just don't understand why this is relevant to the theory of chaos magick in itself. I mean, yes, it is inherently and very directly about insanity. It is about embracing chaos and insanity and that's right there in the title. It's not hidden. And if this isn't how others want to live their life that's totally reasonable or understandable. But I don't think there is any way to go "HALF" in on chaos magick and have it actually work. But in no moment or circumstance does that ever need to entail convincing people of it. Just never. Because its a personal practice, why would you even feel the need to convince someone?? or even to talk about it with other people?? I think magick in general can't be talked about too much because it means you are just trying to validate yourself externally and not actually validating yourself by doing the work and getting the results. Anyways, i think the dangers of chaos magick are just blatantly obvious, this is obviously just obviously not a "safe" method of living, but that was clearly never the point of it, no?

[@TommieKelly]

Chaos Magic, to me, is absolutely not "very directly" or even remotely about Insanity. Your mileage may vary.

[@lordputrid8415]

why would you path people to a bad trip?

[@TommieKelly]

I'm not sure what you mean - how I am doing that?