POE 3.25 - The 65000:1 Currency Exchange Limitation Flippers Use To Get Rich- Path Of Exile Settlers

#poe #pathofexile #trade
I considered flipping to ten mirrors with this trick but decided it's better to go public. Only a few people are using it at present; the more that use it the less effective it will become.
The trade market currency exchange has a hidden rule - no ratios can exceed 65000 to 1. This comes up a lot with extremely cheap items traded in bulk - mostly rogue markers, but also potentially Harvest goo. It would also potentially come up for mirror to chaos orb trades, if the mirror inflates a little bit further, although who does those.
Don't accept 65000 to 1 ratios on anything, as even if fair market price is 100k or 115k to 1, sellers are currently banned from listing at those prices. We can't outbid each other, and are instead forced to join the back of the queue to sell at 65000.
Update on the orders: The 2 million heist coin orders filled within 20 minutes of being placed. The divine orb orders haven't filled yet (there's about 400 of them in the line) but they seem to take 12 to 24 hours to fill - hopefully, this video dissuades people from doing this trade on the currency exchange and makes these orders take longer to fill, reducing the effectiveness of this flipping method for me and everyone else.
Also please note how low gold costs are here - GGG, please consider increasing the Rogue Marker gold costs to transact by a factor of 20. They'll still be cheap, and you'll only hurt flippers.
Join as a channel member to get access to perks (this helps fund the channel):
/ @sirgog
I've started streaming on Twitch! / sirgog will take you there.
You can buy some POE microtransactions and/or games from my Nexus store, and I'll get a cut. Link: www.nexus.gg/s...
I also have a merch store at merch.streamel... if you want to buy anything there and can take tips at streamelements...

[@dave9527]

Honestly don't know why rogue markers need this much granularity. They could just drop the units by two orders of magnitude, so that 1,000 becomes 10. I guess the issue then is summoning the portal, but IMO that's annoying anyways at this point and they should just add it as a waypoint.

[@mrmurphymil]

I'm a simple man, I see sirgog video I click

[@n8doggy733]

here here

[@peterheath7960]

Bloody base 2^16 approximations…😢

[@sirgog]

Yep. But oddly, rounded down to the even thousand.

[@MichaelPohoreski]

_There 10 types of people who understand binary:_ *Those that do and those that don't.* /s

[@peterheath7960]

@@sirgogFound that a little surprising myself.

[@TitanAssassinGAMES]

@@MichaelPohoreski I chuckled a bit

[@DharokHardOn]

​@@MichaelPohoreskiand those that do the joke in base 3

[@mAsTeRsLiCk109]

I listen to your content on my commute, and have been since 3.19, so I really have never seen your in-game footage before. I’ve been playing since 3.14 and have been a heist-hater even after 1500 hours. All of that to say, I don’t know what amazes me more, you casually dropping 2500 chaos on (in my eyes) a worthless currency, or the fact that you are that rich to be willing to dump all of that while running a 2-life 2-silver flask bar lol. Jokes aside, your insightfulness and pragmatic position that you take on anything PoE has definitely made me improve my skill, but also has helped me enjoy the game in ways I didn’t know was possible from pixels on a screen. Thank you for your content man!

[@sirgog]

Flasks will be fixed but they'll be tied to other changes, at the moment they are solving critical problems (CB cleanse, etc). Really need to ding the next level & get the next cluster, then I can make a cascade of changes. The markers I bought here are instantly flippable at 15-20% higher than I bought them

[@mAsTeRsLiCk109]

@@sirgoga man of patience! Almost quit on day 3 trying to transition too quickly. Got way over my skis and was dying in yellows after being able to clear 80+ quant reds. Some lucky synth bases from ritual saved me, now doing casual 8mods. But, expecting something to change bc of a PoB, without proper planning, made me rethink ‘why’ I was playing in the first place. Really resonated with your “stop and smell the roses” sentiment from your ladder meta video.

[@ausoleil8269]

I like the fact you're punished for being unable to do elementary maths.

[@infernus6278]

this is the same thing as selling items in bulk that are mostly only available in chaos on market. Ive been selling 30c items for 1d bunch of times

[@MikeSakaru]

@@infernus6278 Yeah. If I'm buying 3c memories, I'd rather buy 3 for 5c each, or 10 for 10c each in most cases. Same thing when I sell, always wait 'til I have bulk and sell high in larger quantities (100k + harvest juice, etc)

[@fallingnao3919]

@@ausoleil8269 American education game nerf

[@narufreak25]

Snitchgog at it again. But on a serious note, I had no idea there were hardcoded limits. What my friends and I have been doing have been exchanging chaos and divines through a medium. Early on we were buying stacked decks at a 1:1 with chaos, then selling the stacked decks for 130:1 Divine, saving us 20c off the divine, with the only limiting factor being gold. Some items are still worth it, some have dried up. It feels like forex trading. Which is the worst kind of trading.

[@sirgog]

Yeah there's a lot of margins you can make, albeit at the cost of gold. I think the low cost to trade Rogue Markers makes this a lot more scalable than other trade shenanigans, however.

[@esvbanARPGs]

I mean you could do that kind of exchange with the old trade site, but would take longer and was done more efficiently by bots

[@rexcelrais5750]

lol small margin xdd

[@Dorkstorm]

Always check the price per divine and chaos before placing a buy, or a sell order.

[@TheKruxed]

Buying lifeforce for divine and then selling it in chaos was quite profitable for a time. I also sold armourers early on at near 1/1 chaos because no one was selling them due to the gold cost, my 2 cheap scarab strat gets me 10k gold a map on average and you can almost draw out the pirate encounter to get 50k gold quite often as I had it 4 times yesterday, seems as soon as you go over 500k value and to a certain port that you get a high chance of the encounter

[@whateverppl1229]

I noticed some item prices fluctuating drastically, so much so that I was buying items for low and selling for over double and it was selling and buying near instantly

[@Yomush]

FYI the information about the limit is available in game with the little "i" button in the top left corner of the Currency Exchange. As you can guess most people didn't notice but hopefully your video will motivate GGG to do something about it

[@jermygod]

even without a limit, the exchange is poorly implemented. it does not show both exchange rates at once, only the one that is bad one for you. these exchange rates are not for sale but for purchase. essentially means that when I want to sell something, I see the rate of those who want to buy my stuff, but I don’t see the rate of competitors who want to sell! and if i swap the exchanged items, it turns out that the exchange rate is completely different and i can get much better price! Yesterday I bought fuses for my 6link and on the trade site they cost 1/5с. and in the exchange they cost 1/10c! and then I got a 6link omen and I sold it for 300c! whoever bought it could buy 3000 fuses for this money.

[@Elunvira]

Tbh it's hard already to get people to invite through the website for currencys. 1/5 is better, but people probably prefer the Faust because you aren't going to sit there for 30+ mins hoping someone at 1/5 musings accept. The really issue is that, even thought the exchange rate says 1:10, if there is none at that rate on the exchange, it'll just go to 1:20 instead of the best ratio for you. So if you don't check what others are selling for in the exchange (by clicking the ratio) you'll lose a lot of chaos/divines

[@vbgfrnc]

Last update made it so if you hover on the ratio and hold alt it shows second ratio

[@paulsaalfeld9844]

Hold alt over the exchange and you will see the other side where you can make your sell order

[@dma736]

I know part of the problem is me but the trove has _always_ felt elitist. Most recent example was I included my IGN in a posting? I can't do that due to scammers? The existing paradigm (player managed) is broken on many levels and I welcome change. Too many guardrails are required to make it practical -- it does not serve the community at large -- only a fraction. The currency exchange is a bold move by GGG and I appreciate it. There are forces out there that want to see it fail and they're doing everything they can to undermine it.

[@sirgog]

Currency exchange is great, but there's still stuff I'll go to TFT for (liquidating entire tabs, or stuff like Heist blueprints that don't work on the exchange), and stuff I'll use the old trade system for (divine to chaos).

[@kbar4462]

Such an absurdly adorablely cataclysmic thumbnail 😂

[@sirgog]

Cat-aclysm

[@christerjakobsen8107]

@@sirgog CATW

[@datanon3059]

Considering how close 65000 is to 65535 (16 bit limit) I'm guessing they'll patch this at some point. Good find. Really, the exchange is great, but the UI is absolute crap for not getting scammed.

[@rainzhang4229]

Hideout warriors are stronger than ever

[@The-Real-aPOC]

This game is making my brain hurt

[@StrueSlies]

The market suggested 20 to 1 alterations for chaos, so I bought them on the site 9 to 1, a few days ago. For the most part the market helps, but yeah keep your eyes open and stay woke cuz they scamming.

[@jogadorjnc]

I wish the exchange showed volume of trades in the past few minutes as well, so you can have an idea of how long you can expect your order to fill

[@whorhaydelfuego7190]

I haven't actually used the currency exchange yet, any time I've looked in there the prices were just plain crazy like Alts to Chaos 35:1 when the trade site would get me 8:1 within minutes of posting. And even just for price checking of stuff the UI isn't very helpful, you can only see a few of the current offers and have to hover mouse to even see that, if it works at all.

[@TheKingreddragon]

for this specific exchange buying a lot of alts for chaos would cost exorbitant amount of gold, and when you are in the business of buying alts you want thousands usually when crafting stuff, and its 32,75k gold for 1310 alts for example. So not many people exchange alts and chaos in there. they overshot the gold rates for alts.

[@markjacobs3232]

Wewf, had me sweating someone else found out the broken market manipulation I figured out. Just a psa, thanks for that!

[@jackrabbit1704]

Yea, I just got scammed buying dozens of grand eldritch ichor 60 each but they only sell for 30 each. Make sure to cross check prices.

[@sirgog]

When I wanted exceptional ichors "right now" I had to overpay quite a bit; decided to do it a different way, buy order up 10% overbidding the other orders & went mapping.

[@oopomopoo]

100%, buying for the rate is generally like scrolling down on the trade site. Just set up a buy order. However this doesn't account for not knowing the price. For that, ctrl click the currency and it swaps the order. Ie if you are buying exalts for c, it will swap to buy c with chaos. This let's you see what other players are trying to buy it for. If people are selling for 6p ans buying at 30, there's a significant price disparity that let's you know you should look deeper

[@YuYuYuna_]

100% this. I stopped trusting the ratios it displays in game very quickly. Like most people I use awakened PoE trade to check prices most of times and I shit you not about 9/10 times the ratio the currency exchange gives you is nonsense. It is going to rob you. I've legit had it tell me that 50 of X thing was worth 10c but in reality it's worth 25c. I honestly don't get how it generates it's ratio data but it is such a scam. Never never never trust the ratios it shows in game. Always price check with awakened PoE trade. Edit: I get that part of it is you are going to pay more for something if you want it instantly but like I said even that isn't true 99% of the time in my experience using the AH. I'll sell those very same things it tells me are worth 1:5 ratio for 1:2 and they instantly sell or in the next 30mins to an hour max, usually 10-20 mins. It's a good system as a concept but those ratios are almost never accurate (in my experience) to actual prices of things which is a shame because while me you and a bunch others who are more experienced have the built in habit of checking awakened PoE trade, newer/less experienced players do not and just as you said you got scammed I'm sure people are and have lost literally several dozens of divines worth of currency because the system literally lies to you and tries to get you to undervalue what you are selling and overvalue what you are buying.

[@taiwanisacountry]

I bought those white life force for divines yesterday 2:1.... What a scam, they go for 40c so almost 4:1.... Such a waste of my divines. Now sometimes, I don't really care because I am low on gold constantly. 😂 So I just want my stuff.

[@Anossov]

@@oopomopoo Hold alt to see the buy order queue

[@theslayer5287]

Good vid, ty for the tips

[@SOFIACAULIFLOWER-l3mstudy]

Having just turned 41 and got laid off, I'm at a turning point. With 425K saved for early retirement at 50, 10K in an HSA, and a property that could sell for an extra 200K, what are my options for investing aggressively?

[@FreemanJameZ]

It makes sense to consider a financial advisor at this stage, but delaying retirement might be a smarter choice

[@SOFIACAULIFLOWER-l3mstudy]

Not going back to work. I'm unsure whether to consolidate all my investment accounts into one. If I do, how should I handle it and what should I be aware of? I also plan to sell my property, which could bring in an extra 200K over time. Should I combine everything into one account or spread it out across different investments?

[@AdamWright8fool]

These are key questions for a financial planner. I connected with mine at a summit, and with her help, my wife and I reallocated our 1.7M portfolio between a traditional IRA and brokerage account. She’s been managing the investment with our approval and has helped us recover twice our losses. Currently hodl’ing steady and cautiously navigating the market

[@ArchieJohnson5h]

That’s impressive! My portfolio has been struggling. Who is your advisor?

[@AdamWright8fool]

Leah Foster Alderman. Look her up online, she's well-known.

[@mike_o7874]

Iam flipping the mage blood div card. Buy and sell have about 2-3 div difference in prices.

[@syther6768]

I feel like if the market stayed out long enough, gold would have a value tied to chaos at a specific number

[@OmniSoundAI]

It pretty much does for people flipping items, day 1-2 when I was flipping runes and simple currencies it was 25-50 gold = 1c depending on the flip (during the campaign I made a bit over 1k chaos from flipping). Day 3-4 I was buying div cards that gives divines and getting fast profits 4125 gold = 1div. After day 5 was going slower but I put 20div in my league starter and a few more div in other builds plus leveling gear, still have a bit over 100div mostly from flipping. I hope the exchange stays with no crazy changes cause its nice that before maps you can have currency to buy some decent items as long as what you want in on the market cause after act 8 you get 1k-2k gold (20c-40c) per zone/ white maps with no mods maybe less if you want faster flips. It's nice not having to do any atlas strat or using scarabs and still make something from each map plus no more needing to do chaos recipe. Some people want to use their gold for the league town stuff but I stopped messing with it after act 5 and havent touched it since then.

[@ryanpoulos8232]

10 years in the atlas made you a conqueror

[@wonderfuljinn1096]

Noticed this when buying harvest scarabs

[@kanabalize]

Imagine this is happening in real economy too, Some one some where realized how to "game" the system and making money out of it. POE is resembling real life more and more. Is there any reports of people just chilling at the hideout flipping currencies?

[@sirgog]

IRL it's much more regulated.

[@TheKruxed]

@@sirgog Which is why they invented crypto, to con a lot of people and print money

[@satibel]

you can't just chill in hideout because of gold. though if you can gold farm efficiently, it's profitable, there's a ton of 2:1 flips

[@sirgog]

@@satibel this one's particularly egregious because the gold cost is negligible when trading for markers

[@Living1tUpAllday]

You can do arbitrage in real life and some people do, but there are so many players in the real life market that as soon as someone finds riskless arbitrage, it's snuffed out.

[@Moorb0y52]

The ratios are so funky on the market, I've made 800c in an hour of trading before - the limiting factor being gold 😁

[@sirgog]

Yeah gold costs on markers are massively undertuned. They should be 20 times higher, maybe even 40.

[@Olanar2000]

And you would make 2 times more and generate gold if you were mapping, absolutely nothing needing a nerf here

[@Moorb0y52]

@@Olanar2000 this is alongside mapping, you set up the buy orders and they fill in while you are mapping, way better use of gold than doing kingsmarch objectives

[@oneoranota]

Wtf are they undertuned ? I paid 4000 gold to buy 30 vaal orbs... Did I get scammed by Faustus ?

[@Moorb0y52]

@@oneoranota as long as you didn't pay more than 15-20c you're fine. 4k gold is less than one high tier map

[@maciej9380]

That's the biggest dissapointment of currency echange. Most of the time it's better to go to the trading site and differences are like 2x.

[@jvtps765]

@@maciej9380 I mean you're paying for efficiency.

[@Rikokknd]

Ye, but the trade is instant.

[@tails5388]

in poe you have always paid more for convenience. You buy in bulk? you pay more per item. You want a done crafted item instead of crafting yourself? youre paying more than the material cost. you want prerolled maps? youre paying more. this is no different. If you want instant trades instead of the 5% response rate of currency trades on the trade site, youre gonna pay more. And to be honest, the time and frustration saved often covers the extra cost imo

[@dungeonboss8356]

@@tails5388 on default trade you can also pay a few chaos more than the lowest offer and will almost always get a response, and it will not be x1.5 or x2 difference. Not to mention the gold cost, I feel very conflicted spending thousands of gold simply to exchange a few divs when you need that gold in league mechanic.

[@dungeonboss8356]

and for some farming strategies, if you pay double price for scarabs for example, they simply become not viable, or not good enough to spend time on them, which limit the ways you can play the game and I feel this is not a good thing. This would not happen if currency exchange market was the only place to buy stuff, because everybody would pay the same price.

[@shrimpmuzics7524]

Long story short you there’s a limit of 65,000 per trade. Rouge markers are 120,000 per divine but since people can’t put up a trade for that much they have to put it up for 65,000 per divine. Thus people who are dumb and don’t double check the prices at at the rate of chaos aswell get scammed.

[@BigHankyPanky]

I have never understood why we couldn't get the same trademark it as what I had previously when playing on Console where I had this immediate trade system but was still someone Fair to trade for anything and cost nothing to trade

[@xXVintersorgXx]

Sounds like decimal/binary math errors inherent in computer programming and type conversion. I imagine they can easily patch this by setting hard caps or expanding the variable from an int to a long and do all the math in a larger variable.

[@n91312]

GGG at it's best again

[@g.waits4gainz205]

cheeeeers ITS BRUTAL OUT HERE! i cant seem to crack a farming strat my build and me like that allows me to add funds for better gear to do things faster and the gold cost sdcaling on the trade tool sucksssssssss when u want higher volumes of mapping currency BUT MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN WOULD NOT HAVE BENE SUPRISED IWTH ANYTHING LIKE THIS!!! but its burtalllllllllllllll I JUST REALLY HOPE GGG HAS SOME FUN STUFF PLANNED FOR WEEK 3+ OR MONTH 2+ TO change things up or add more content expansion ot the league cause i might make it to my 1st HH self farmed when its 100~ div but its gonna be suuuuuuuuuch A MASSIVE BURN OUT SLOG because its so hard ot decide whats woerthg running and whats only worth running in t17 or with 2+ div per map investment and requires good filters or fast builds. this leagues been the hardest for learning how to become a strategized gamer buuuuuuuuut ALL HAIL THE ALCH AND GO STRATS ESPECIALLY LEGION

[@DustinCreative]

Watched the whole thing and still confused. Lol

[@Robot-Overlord]

Anyone that played grand exchange on runescape is making out like a bandit this league. I know ive probably made more on AH than actually playing the game.

[@JPoE-z3k]

I've run some 1,000~ Heist wings in total this league and gone through God knows how many Rogue Markers. I didn't understand why they were so much cheaper in Chaos and just assumed that nobody was buying them in Divines... I suppose there was some niche here that could be exploited?

[@mortenlaursen6354]

@sirgog So whats the solution to it? Is it just "clever" use of game mechanics, or can they "fix" it by upping the hard cap ? I cant help but being worried if they would remove this feature going forward and revert back to the old ways if more "exploits" pop up like this. Thanks for revealing this :)

[@Zenbubbles]

Raising the hard cap, or the gold cost for the exchanges. Gold is chaos and divines basically (through Kingsmarch)

[@sirgog]

Gold cost should go up on marker trades, they are egregiously low. Main this is Heisters learning not to buy markers with divines but to use chaos instead.

[@Wunder]

How are gold costs calculated for currency listings?

[@sirgog]

Each currency has a gold cost - IIRC 250 for divines, 25 chaos/fuse, 0.001 for markers - and you pay the gold cost for what you buy. The marker cost should increase by a factor of 20, IMO. Would stop some of the flipping shenanigans with them.

[@franklyspeaking_games]

unrelated to video, Eviscerate always causes bleeding :)

[@wjgoodin]

And this is why we can't have nice things. lol

[@sirgog]

Yeah this could be scary if enormously scaled, although I believe this video will attack it in two ways - decreasing buyers and also increasing the number of sellers (meaning it takes longer to get buyers)

[@blrrich1051]

I am new to this game and still don't understand why people want rogue markers. aren't they just used for getting to heist? and isn't it super easy to find them all the time? i have to be missing something here.

[@Living1tUpAllday]

People who solely run heist need tons of rogue markers. Simple as that

[@sirgog]

You use one marker to enter the Harbour, that's trivial. You use thousands to run blueprints though. Typically 10000 for a four wing level 83 print. About a million to a million and a quarter markers are used for each Replica Alberon's Warpath that's looted and perhaps 4 times as many for each Simplex Amulet base

[@blrrich1051]

@@sirgog wow. i had no idea. thanks for taking the time to explain

[@balazsfenyes3880]

Then i wont tell how i got from 5 divines to 100 with using the currency market

[@Kevfactor]

I’m not using the market for a few days hehe

[@gunfugames7430]

I just want easy mode in this game without people without curency where I can choose any unique items of whatever grear and craft it as I want.

[@Monstufpud]

Gogsisters rise up

[@stephenblackie-fu1sr]

Got my coffee

[@ExperiencePath]

knew something would happen with this system eventually 😂

[@stefandemerov8423]

Thats very bad. That means If I were unaware of this and trusted the stated price on the CE, I'd be defrauded by double the amount of markers. This is straight up market manipulation and erodes trust in the CE

[@cctakedown333]

Many exchange rates are kinda like this. You need to double or triple check the ratios when buying and when selling. Almost scammed myself by underpricing resonators and fossils a few times

[@seifeir6951]

Reminds me of D3 RMAH

[@ivanwong8216]

have u reported to ggg? hope u didn't get ban by doing that and exposing it.

[@n8doggy733]

is the currency exchange real people or is it the game?

[@sirgog]

Real people

[@cabbagepotato2421]

This sounds like an exploit

[@Wormweed]

What about the trade deals that are in 0.5 divine increments? yesterday i bought a single rune that was listed for 2,5 div but i had to pay 3, who gets that extra 0.5 div? i only got the rune and no 0.5 div back

[@oneoranota]

That market is actually super weird. I don't understand it and I barely use it. Only time it comes handy is when I need a small quantity of crafting materials.

[@Wormweed]

@@oneoranota yeah, and the ratio you get when selling vs buying is off the charts. i wanted to sell my orb of unmaking yesterday and the ratio it set was 280:96c, while i had to pay 151c for 280 if i was buying. Ended up selling them on the trade site for 47c:80

[@justinhowe3878]

Like the magicians that publicize trade secrets. This guy is a menace!

[@giannisgk5848]

Yeah first abuse it then make it public after you become rich haha. And GGG said they want to remove abuse of mechanics and flipping and botting hahaha

[@michaelpopa5317]

Been doing thos for over a week. Welp i guess ppl will know

[@sirgog]

I think before this vid you could have made fifty divines a day passively with this. More competition now should mostly brick it

[@newfaith912]

Its simple... its lazy stupid tax. A hefty if i may add. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@MidsummerNightScream]

GGG should pay you to lead their QA department

[@daruthebeast]

there is one?!?!?!?

[@rexcelrais5750]

lucky my method still didnt appear and got 3x profit from that npc XDD

[@strikernokk4749]

Can you give at least one tip?

[@rexcelrais5750]

@@strikernokk4749 nah. i got 10x profit now. spend 10c and 30k gold++ xdd.

[@spaghettata6942]

first

[@diegogarber1]

Huh?

[@dariolatorre2108]

This video is completely useless

[@QuintessenceHD]

Watching you actively abuse this makes me sad...