Pokémon Gold / Silver - Playing the ambitious sequel 25 years on! - Review and Ranking

In this episode of the Bonus Points Podcast Joe and Oli discuss Pokémon Gold and Silver in-depth then debate where it should go on THE LIST.
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[@thebonuspoints]

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[@alexslusher16]

13:36 I'm 23, so I'm an adult, but hearing the word "Hell" spoken on a channel associated with Stampy, Happy Go Lucky Stampy who stopped swearing for his child audience is SO Jarring.

[@hayleydaves]

stampy can you add me on minecarft my user is Jaxfnafgamer

[@joshuaiyer1434]

I knew a Pokémon episode would be fantastic! I've loved playing along on HeartGold, and I think because I grew up with the DS as Joe said for some people, I actually have nostalgia to that early 3D models on it. I love the day/night cycle and little touches of dialogue for the radio or the "are you sleeping in?" when I play in the mornings and things like that. It was neat to see gameplay on your Game Boy Color and your Pikachu Game Boy too! Excited to share this episode with my Pokémon friends. I've also had fun exploring an archive of an old website from 1998-2002, which has news articles from back in the day about Gold and Silver and speculations about the game and Game Boy Color and things. It's been a lovely piece of history and it's great to see you guys going back to this generation for this episode!

[@buddyolly7008]

Just based on the pros and cons brought up this episode I’d particularly recommend Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire . They’re great for the modern quality of life features gen 2 lacked with the qualities of gen 2 improved. Oras has a good amount of challenge without any of the annoying early pokemon formula of tedious grinding and backtracking. It also keeps the simple and quirky npc dialogue but also has a much more ambitious overall plot compared to gen 1 and 2 to make things interesting. Great episode as usual. Skate is my most anticipated episode yet!

[@buddyolly7008]

Oras also has a day/night cycle as well as a news channel that reports on the story and your unique actions in-game which joe may appreciate given his love for gold/silver’s immersive qualities.

[@cheese2878]

I remember when I was a kid being obsessed with Pokémon despite only collecting the cards and watching the show. My only experience with the games was watching friends play it and them letting me play it briefly while over at their houses. I do remember always imagining and getting excited about what the games would be like in the future so it’s been a shame that, for the most part, they’ve had very little change.

[@evanhariadi3241]

48:36 Pokemon Gold and Silver WEREN'T meant to be the last one. That is actually factually incorrect. In a July 2000 issue of Nintendo Online Magazine before Gold and Silvers international release, Satoshi Tajiri explicitly stated that "No, it's not the end" when asked if Gold and Silver would be the last games. The developers also were on record on saying "Not even close" and "To us, they don't feel fully complete" when asked if they felt they completed the games they wanted to make. That incorrect fact comes from Tsunekazu Ishihara in an interview saying he initially was gonna be done with Pokemon after Gold and Silver. Not Pokemon itself. In fact, Tajiri anticipated that eventually future Pokemon games would be made by younger developers who grew up playing Gen 1 and Gen 2 with the best Pokemon game being "sooner rather than later".

[@thebonuspoints]

Thanks for pointing this out. It's one of those things that gets repeated so much it becomes considered a fact. I heard it in multiple places while researching. - Joe

[@LisaLovesFugglers]

Pokémon Gold and Silver were amazing! Unfortunately my saves have gone, because of the internal battery, but you can still play it; it just won't save! Had lots of fun with the remakes though. As a player of many of the games through many years, I struggled with Sword and Shield, but I found Violet and Scarlet (from what little I've read and played, way ott with content, and terrible use of scenery and buildings etc). After playing what I did of Scarlet, I realised I enjoyed Sword and Shield so much more. Back to older games? I still need to finish the B/W sequels and Sun and Moon 2 😅

[@Lukeypoos22]

I grew up playing Gold so obviously nostalgia plays a big factor but I always thought these were generally regarded as some of, if not the best in the series. As you mentioned, they ironed out lots of the bugs/imbalances etc from Red and Blue while adding lots of cool new features which made the world feel very alive and exciting. I do remember it being a difficult game, but I think that was more of a lack of understanding of certain type advantages when I was younger. The Elite Four always felt incredibly tough to beat, and I remember one play through when I just couldn't get through Ice Path and ended up making a new save file (something to do with thinking I'd pushed the rocks down the wrong holes!). The grinding can be tedious in places although I think that was only really before battling the Elite Four and Red (think his team has Pokemon in the 70s/80s). One of the things that makes it hard to revisit (which is something most people wouldn't really pick up on) is the Physical/Special move split, e.g every Water move is Special whereas a Pokemon like Gyarados has a high Physical attack stat, which essentially makes certain Pokemon weaker than they ought to be. I think this only got changed by Gen 4 when each individual move rather the type of move would be either Physical or Special which made much more sense. Overall I think there is a strong argument for Heartgold/Soulsilver being the best in the whole series. They're still similar enough in art style and now old enough to retain the charm of the original games but have much better quality of life features (e.g. being able to re-battle gym leaders which makes the grinding a much less punishing). Not to mention really fun new additions like the Pokeathlon and Battle Frontier. Great video guys!

[@addaboyshankle]

For Joe: Since you love the pixel style of the older Pokémon, I’d HIGHLY recommend you play Coromon. I believe $20 on Switch and Steam, and $5 for the full game on Mobile. Beautiful pixel art and animations, funny dialogue and fun character customization, AND a ton of quality of life changes that haven’t even been implemented in modern Pokémon to this day. Settings are heavily customizable, to a point where you can even catch Trainers’ Coromon if you so please lol. Highly recommend if you want to fill in that kick you may have been missing from recent releases.

[@Karmadillo-qh3jv]

Just remember that if you ever feel sad or underperforming, 1000 people is still 1000 people who love and appreciate your content. Even if you only have 10 or 20 thats still 10/20 individuals who love your content. Glad to see the podcasts are still going strong.

[@SamuelWilliams-kh8pn]

I started with sword because I’m only 11 years old

[@n33dml92]

Gotta agree with Oli on this one. Joe does have a point saying how the day and night cycle and all that were impressive for the gameboy but it’s hard to compare a gameboy game to the likes of the Last of us series or death stranding of Alan wake 2. I can understand Joes nostalgia but I think the game doesn’t belong anywhere near the top 10

[@Cryonik]

I'm currently playing through emerald for the first time as someone who grew up with the ds era of games and im having a lot of fun with it! like this one, levelling is sometimes a struggle and like i think Oli said some gyms you can be stuck for hours while others you beat them at the first go. I definitly prefer playing the look of the 2d games to 3d, even though emerald is a bit different looking from the ds games it still emits the same feelings for me.

[@TheDN20]

I think this was my favorite episode of the podcast yet! Im a huge pokemon fan so listening to you two talk about pokemon for an hour and a half was so fun. I was a bit scared that you two wouldnt like this game but Im so happy to know how much Joe liked it. These games are tied with generation 4 as my favorite pokemon games of all time. The fact that you get to go to Kanto sets it apart from all of the other games and makes it feel so special. I still like modern pokemon but I agree with Joe that the 2d games were when they really shined. After X and Y Pokemon became fully 3d and lost a lot of its charm. I think that Joe will really like Emerald and I hope that he gives Platinum a chance because it is just as good as these games.

[@bradybellah8953]

I love gold and silver, was playing it on delta emulator while listing to this, then stamps said he listened to podcast while playing gold and silver while I was playing which made me chuckle😭😭😭

[@apparentlyposhchild7882]

Im currently on a mission to play through every single pokemon game. Next is heart gold and this episode just made me more exited. Gotta say that the DS artstyle is definitely my favourite though. It aged way better than the rest and is just so charming

[@Dolph_]

My first Pokémon game for me was the remake of sliver in DS. Gen 2 is special for it’s the only game with 2 regions.

[@rainydaycat6713]

Old Pokemon is Joe’s version of Resident Evil 2002.

[@Regeor]

Watching your Pokemon Moon playthrough really got me into Pokemon! Now I’m a megafan of Pokemon and I’ve even tried Competitive battling! Thanks

[@adamsouth05]

This is the most excited I have ever been for a podcast episode and it did not disappoint. Pokemon is one of, if not my favorite game series. Gold and Silver are one of the best games in series and the remakes I would argue are even better. My first Pokemon game was Diamond and Pearl and I played Gold and Silver years later and even though it was "older" I still loved it and would rank it above D&P. I noticed right before the gym leader battle Joe dropped a cheeky little save. A pro strat and something I have done since I was a wee lad. I will always be your blood brother. I appreciate you answering my question, your initial response gave me a laugh. I think you guys answered it well and I agree, it would be nice to take a proper chance and really change the formula. I really did enjoy Arceus and it was very different. I do agree with the placement on the list only because there are some fantastic games on the list and where it is, is a good compromise. But me personally would have put it somewhere in the range that Joe originally said, if not number 1.

[@joshuaiyer1434]

Been loving my first playthrough of HeartGold on the DS! It's cool to hear you started with Diamond and Pearl, as that's the generation my friend loves the most and grew up with in her childhood. It's just been fun basking in everyone's Pokémon memories as it's a series I'm still fairly new in. Black and White intrigue me with how they use the features of the DS!

[@adamsouth05]

@@joshuaiyer1434 I am glad you are enjoying! HeartGold is fantastic. I would highly recommend Black and White. I have replayed them so many times and enjoy them just as much every time. To Joe's point I think some of my love for the game is because of the timeframe of my life when i was playing them so i may be biased :).

[@joshuaiyer1434]

Yeah. That’s fair. To be honest, sometimes I feel the same way about Super Monkey Ball, too! But nostalgia lights up the happy parts of our brain, so I think it’s okay :-)

[@adamsouth05]

@@joshuaiyer1434 100% agreed. Nostalgia is a heck of a thing.

[@Pancakes27]

The only 3D in the remakes of Gold and Silver (heart gold and soul silver) is som parts of the environment. All characters, Pokémon, battle backgrounds, ui, and floor tiles are definitely pixel art style. Love the episode, just wanted to clear this up

[@thebonuspoints]

Yeah, I had good look at them before decided to do the originals. I am personally not a fun of this style. Especially with the DS "wobble".

[@Pancakes27]

@@thebonuspoints That’s fair

[@addaboyshankle]

As a huge Splinter Cell fan, I’d HIGHLY recommend doing Chaos Theory instead of Blacklist, if you’re set to only doing one. Blacklist is more modernized, and easier to get into (I also very much enjoy), but true Splinter Cell peak is with Chaos Theory. Main thing to remember that it is heavily focused on stealth, so run-and-gun will almost always put you in a game over. Blacklist is easier for newer people to get into, but Chaos Theory is THE Splinter Cell experience. Great podcast all around!

[@WaferKnight]

Loved to see your excitement from playing the game Joe, really made me want to pick up a Gen 2 game, Pokemon emerald is my all time favorite Pokemon game so I hope you enjoy it half as much as you enjoyed this one!

[@-J2gross]

I can’t wait until you guys start your next play though of what ever game you guys choose

[@Adam-oy6nc]

Wow, this episode went quickly. I felt like the video had just started by the time they got to the questions. While I loved the conversation, maybe in future you should spend more talking about your pros and cons because its sometimes a surprise to see what you actually think when you get to the list

[@jatbk9225]

You two should do a 2 player nuzlock as a series.

[@lovesbug]

i think the best way to experience the Johto games is to try and see and do everything. Going back and doing random weekly events like the bug catching contest or going to the goldenrod underground shops that change every day just gives the game so much more life and makes the world feel lived in. I believe that's a huge reason why Joe enjoyed the game much more than Oli as from how they described playing it, it sounds like Joe fell into the game world where Oli was just playing a game if that makes sense. There's nothing wrong with following a guide if you are lost in a game and I dislike the idea that following a guide should be looked down on, however for games like the Johto Pokemon games, I personally think you are missing out on so much of what Johto has to offer which is why I feel like the games are quite divisive as I understand not everybody wants to talk to every NPC and battle every trainer and explore every town and city. Also I think its worth mentioning here that if you have these games on the original cartridge on not on the 3DS you should try connect them to Pokemon Stadium 2 for the Nintendo 64. For me, Pokemon Stadium 2 is what really completes GSC for me. It makes sense why it wasn't included as part of the review, but if you already enjoy GSC on their own I feel like you should really give stadium 2 a try. sorry if this was long and wordy and hard to read, i'm not good at writing out my thoughts and i have so much thoughts about gen 2 of pokemon lol

[@natalielane1162]

I was so hoping it would make top 10!!

[@astonvillawaterbottle2708]

Thank god they spoke about it

[@DoomedCitrus]

I feel like Pokemon Go was a really good shake up for the Pokémon series 👍 Also awesome podcast yo!

[@user-sv5le5sb5n]

The nexts one you should do is sky landers games

[@SOOMGOBOOM]

Loving the episode so far but I think Joe confused the gold and silver remakes with the ruby and sapphire remakes because soul silver and heart gold arent 3d

[@thebonuspoints]

You mad me doubting myself for a second. haha I had to double check. It's absolutely a 3D engine with 2D sprites. - Joe

[@SOOMGOBOOM]

@@thebonuspoints my bad I thought you you meant it was one of the 3d games like x and y or sun and moon.

[@RichardDCoyote]

I started with Blue. Yellow was the one I played the most. Gold made me stop playing Pokemon games. It became too much like work.

[@Joshi_ForReal]

I played through Silver on the 3ds virtual console last year, for the first time and honestly it holds up super well, I really liked it. Its leagues better than Red blue and yellow. Weirdly enough I do prefer silver to crystal

[@Iterus_The_Game_Breaker]

Yall should go over the persona series namely 3 4 or 5

[@SourSqaud117]

I was ending the episode today, WERE GETTING TF2 AAAA, I am so excited :>

[@Christopher-wm8vc]

I love this podcast

[@johnuselmann2704]

I think Pokémon silver and gold should be linked with killer 7 Like prey and doom because Ollie was done an injustice with how low killer 7 is, and now joe is feeling the same thing.

[@SlymeWizard]

Im surprised the Oli is the one struggling seeing as stampy has a SUNFLORA.

[@thebonuspoints]

Choose your squad with your heart, not your head!

[@tsuchan44]

Pokemon Gold/Silver is a top 10 for sure

[@scoot5548]

Pokemon gold and silver is top 10

[@SkepticTurtle]

I feel like Ollie would’ve had a better time if he played heart gold or soul silver