Pokemon Colosseum In-Game Tier List THE PREMIUM | Cream of the Crap

[@ImportedCheese]

Correction Post?! - Don't say I recycled the HORRIBLE joke, we added Qwilfish and Stantler!!!!!!!!! - AKSHUALLY THEY'RE LEGENDARY "BEASTS" - In gen 3 double battes, if a pokemon is KOd its replacement is sent out during the same turn, so you can potentially knock out FOUR pokemon in a turn!!!!! Probably not tho.

[@NoShotTwoKill]

I mean there was a challenge where you had to kill a bunch of shedinjas in a specified amount of turns in either coliseum or XD

[@TheRamblemanWhoSings]

jokes get better & funnier the more times they're used

[@dungeonpastor]

Slugma isn't gen 3

[@stagelights_]

you kept mentioning how surf does half damage and i was like "that can't be right, spread moves do 75% in doubles", then i looked it up and you were right, the 75% thing wasn't until gen 4

[@ImportedCheese]

@@stagelights_ yah we spent serveral minutes live double and triple checking spread moves

[@smergthedargon8974]

If these videos have taught me anything, it's that gen 4 redeemed half the gen 2 mons.

[@ImportedCheese]

The gen 2 evos is the best part of gen 4

[@troykv96]

I wonder if Gen 9 is gonna do the same with the other half.

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

and Arceus saved the other half

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

@@ImportedCheese Not wrong. God Gen 4 is boring.

[@spindash64]

@@ImportedCheese Hey, that’s not fair! There’s also the Gen 2 remakes! Okay, yeah, base DP is poopie tho.

[@Gigadweeb]

>Qwilfish? Who cares? If only we knew... the convenience is overflowing off the charts!

[@ImportedCheese]

This was before we knew

[@Tama-Hero]

This video was a cathartic experience.

[@ImportedCheese]

I was getting so many comments telling me this game is actually good, I was starting to doubt myself. Now I've been V I N D I C A T E D! ...This game's horrible

[@crenando288]

two of my favorite PokeTubers in the same place, Both of your Colosseum videos are excellent

[@MrCrossmoss]

Bruh.

[@anonanonymous9670]

@@ImportedCheese Yeah The game is horrible I've tried playing it 5 different times over like 3-4 years and have never beaten it because I always get bored quickly

[@0_asis]

@Anon Anonymous grand colosseum or xg next gen. Both rom hacks 100% better because the obtainable pokemonnare better and the enemy's teams are enhanced.

[@inkubus6192]

I feel like all this hype is one big, elaborate set-up to dunk on Meganium again.

[@ImportedCheese]

I'd never clickbait with a grass type in the thumbnail!

[@marum3565]

Personally what sells me on this game looking back on it is the limited roster, too many of the main line games offer way better pokemon leaving many non optimal pokemon overlooked. No one would probably ever use yanma, but when yanma is what you have it gets used leading to interesting non optimal strategies. I really wish more games either official or fan really use the essence of non optimal/underused team composition like this game does

[@ImportedCheese]

Yanma is unusable even among this crew of crap

[@jazzercise300]

I think that's what makes UU and RU smogon tiers so fun

[@Kylesico912x]

All things considered, Yanma is still pretty bad. Though not many people would look twice at Mantine, Octillery or Granbull in most mainline games.

[@abbieburton2794]

Really enjoyed cheese improving his jokes and adapting, it’s really cool to se- Wait this guy doesn’t evolve? Oh my god this guy is HORRIBLE hehehehe (fun vid as usual)

[@ImportedCheese]

If I use the same joke enough times I'll get a STAB bonus!!

[@nicocchi]

@@ImportedCheese honestly you should update your commedy repertoire and find better jo-- wait this guy's humor doesn't evolve? oh my GOD THIS GUY IS HORRIBLE -real talk keep doing the doesn't evolve joke it doesn't get old. Unlike those powercrept NFE mons. Doing it in japanese was brilliant lol-

[@honeycrisp808]

@@ImportedCheese Better be holding a metronome!

[@M3rtyville]

@@ImportedCheese You should wear a Choice Specs to get 50% increase justifying the over use everytime you switch in.

[@BastardOfUnknownOrigins]

Your just the type for that.​@ImportedCheese

[@Robeebert]

Here's a pro for Bayleaf: Bayleaf appears early alphabetically, so in some very uncommon scenarios you would be able to release it earlier.

[@ImportedCheese]

It's also the closest to the catching tutorial, so you can speedrun the catch and release!!

[@Ironwill3004]

I’m sure that hyper mode will finally bring out the hidden potential of grass Onix himself - Tropius! The plant power!

[@Lumix_Corrupt]

*does he know?*

[@ImportedCheese]

he doesn't know

[@ДаниярЖахан-д6и]

Should we tell him?

[@Empostir]

No

[@EZog58]

It's very telling how much Genius Sonority learned about Pokemon mechanics between Colosseum and XD; the Battle Sims in XD are like a tutorial to advanced battle mechanics.

[@ImportedCheese]

I imagine they had much more time to work on the game itself in XD since the pokemon were already animated

[@timrc417]

56:12 How CONVENIENT that Qwilfish is now the channel mascot

[@nessleepk]

Shuckle in the post-game is very worth beating the whole game, just look at those adorable Shuckle animations

[@ImportedCheese]

True! SKY HIGH defense and cute animations, must be good!

[@zesnow3918]

@@ImportedCheese the sky high defenses mean we get to look at shuckle more

[@moleyface]

Re: Jumpluff's glitched shadow, I think I actually know why it does that and it's pretty interesting (to me anyway)! For older games, rendering actually smooth spheres is HARD. So it was more common to emulate true spheres by putting a spherical texture on a flat plane and angling it to always face the camera. It's less common nowadays as game systems get more computing power, but it was very much a thing in the N64/GCN era. But the thing is, a lot of 3D software will treat the alpha maps for actual objects and object shadows differently. Usually, a shadow will assume an object is opaque unless told otherwise. So what probably happened with Jumpluff is that the shadow shader wasn't told it has a transparent texture, ergo, you get cubes.

[@ImportedCheese]

A real explanation from the scientists at Cipher?! ...Or is this just grass propaganda in disguise?! Cool trivia, I didn't know this

[@ItsAZues]

So that's why this is the hardest Pokemon game. 90% of the rooster of Pokemon to catch are all from Johto.

[@ImportedCheese]

A fate worse than death

[@tupacshakur5868]

i know this is a joke to just roast johto mons, but this game isnt hard 10 y/o me just brutforced the entire game with umbreon and espeon: Even as a nuzlocke, its pretty chill

[@tupacshakur5868]

@Ya Mum gale of darkness nuzlocke is quite challenging

[@dse763]

The funny thing is that you start probably with the best Johto has to offer.

[@joshtheryuk]

The only purpose of this game was to allow people to get Gen 2 Pokèmon in their RSE cartridges. The game was an afterthought.

[@CELINE-00004]

You conveniently glossed over a huge upside for Ledian's viability. Using it will cause you to black out at lightning speed, allowing you to stop playing this game sooner

[@ImportedCheese]

The hidden tech?! :SmolBug:

[@orangesilver8]

I saw you about to put misdreavus into johto's finest and I started typing my comment about how just being a ghost type means the enemy will constantly waste their turns on it. Very glad you mentioned that. This is the kind of thing you need real game experience to know. I know from watching Chuggaaconroy's lets play of Colosseum where he kept it on his team because of how often the enemies would waste their move on it.

[@ImportedCheese]

We did a playthrough before this list!!! We're C O M P R E H E N S I V E

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I think it's being a little underestimated here, ENTIRELY because of the Entei Admin guy. That fight is actually genuinely hard, and just having Misdreavus on the team means his aoe field nukes stop making him gain pokemon advantage every time he uses one. Go ahead and box it after that fight, but Misdreavus single handedly makes that fight significantly easier just by existing.

[@borby4584]

I’ll argue that Taunt has ONE niche: the AI in this game knows when you’re going to heal status ailments with an item. So it’s VERY possible for you to use a paralysis heal on a Pokémon, only for the AI to immediately use Stun Spore on the same turn that you do. Taunt prevents that

[@ImportedCheese]

Psychic strat counter?!

[@inkubus6192]

If you were to heal a status at the start of a turn, then Taunt with your other Pokemon, would the AI read both actions before their turn and just use an attack? Or would they try to status you again and waste a turn because of the taunt?

[@borby4584]

@@inkubus6192 From my own experience, it's the latter. They only read the items, not the attacks, so they waste their turn

[@TheLuigiBrother77]

But if you could get off the taunt, couldn't you also just get off an attack and kill them?

[@borby4584]

@@TheLuigiBrother77 not from Umbreon it wouldn’t

[@censoredterminalautism4073]

"Legendary dogs" Lions and saber-tooth tigers are my favorite dog breeds.

[@ImportedCheese]

I prefer cats

[@richardqustmrk]

@@ImportedCheese cats are better Except Skitty

[@pazu9190]

I think Mantine should be higher because it hard counters Dakim because he just spams earthquake even against Mantine then hit them with super effective attacks. It lets you use earthquake without wasting a turn to protect.

[@ImportedCheese]

Mantine is OK against Dakim...Mantine kinda sucks at dealing damage tho, don't fall for the super effective swindle

[@dootsouls]

Y'know, Dudunsparce is a pretty good Pokemon. It's got pretty good bulk, and has good attacking stats, and can make good use of serene grace heatbutt- Wait, Dunsparce doesn't evolve? Oh my god this THING IS HORRIBLE

[@ImportedCheese]

what a shame

[@blazie42069]

Espeon is probably one of the best pokemon in this game and that says something! Also MANTINE IS ACTUALLY KINDA GOOD IN THIS GAME!

[@ImportedCheese]

I dunno mantine's still kinda bad

[@Begeru]

I forgot that Colosseum is like 90% Johto Pokémon. Make sense because lots of Johto Pokémon were hard to get or just missing from the GBA Gen 3 games. That was the main reason I liked this game. And yes the music is the best part!! Shame the gameplay is so boring. It definitely was a slog in the second half.

[@ImportedCheese]

It was all a racket, the original dexit just to seel you this game!!

[@cadencenavigator958]

I think the entire reason someone was like "grass as coverage is good" is because water is a really good type. The super effective swindle.

[@ImportedCheese]

Everyone falls for it

[@765craven4]

In PvP if your Pokemon hard loses to any Water/Ground or Water/Rock Types that happen to be common in whatever meta you're playing in and your Pokemon gets a solid Grass move it can be alright. Crobat with Giga Drain, for example, can catch Mega Swampert users off guard sometimes.

[@cryptwalker2439]

hypothetically if jellicent was in colosseum it could have energy ball as coverage

[@nicholastricarico2957]

It's even worse when you remember Electric exists.

[@Pichu441]

playing this primarily to get a Ho-Oh in Gen 3, the Tyranitardy tier ended up being pretty good for the 100 battle challenge to get it.

[@ImportedCheese]

true!! wish it were a bit faster

[@StarlightMagician]

Funny how half of the mons you can get in this game are in the "Would be good if it's evolution existed at this point!" Category (Aside from Weavile bc of Ice/Dark being special). Also, out of all the E-Reader Shadows, Scizor is arguably the only one that isn't redundant (the other two are a Shadow Togepi and Mareep, both of whom's evos are already obtainable anyway), though I wish it got better STAB options at the time. Speaking of which, you While it wouldn't matter in a Casual Playthrough anyway, Shadow Togetic has yet ANOTHER thing going against it. It's owned by the Wes Imposter who uses Mons in the Late 60s to early 70s. What level is Togetic at? 20. Fucking 20.

[@ImportedCheese]

Just gotta wait one gen for Togekiss and two after that for Fairy typing...

[@ostint912]

I thought Yanma evolved in gen 3 so in Leafgreen I trained one up to level 80 before I finally realized he was stuck being Johto’s finest.

[@ImportedCheese]

Dunsparce got me back in the day in gen 2

[@mushroomdude123]

So I actually replayed Colosseum a month ago and even though the game was kinda boring, I think I built a good team despite what I was using. -Meganium: Sunny Day/Solarbeam/Synthesis/Light Screen I had to grind so much to get the Solarbeam TM, but it’s basically mandatory to use Meganium. It’s best as a tank to not get OKHOd by stronger Shadow Pokemon. I think it almost solo’d the Raikou fight because I forgot to heal the rest of the team. -Magcargo: Flamethrower/Rock Slide/Yawn/Protect I’m going to be honest, this pokemon is mostly just bait to block strong attacks. You get the Protect TM decently early (and you can buy more!) and it makes unwinnable matchups doable. Sun + Light Screen makes Water attacks easy to tank. -Plusle: Thunder/Helping Hand/Thunder Wave/Fake Tears Unironically the MVP of the team. I was shocked at how easy it was to OHKO opponents with Thunder. -Mantine: Bubblebeam/Confuse Ray/Wing Attack/Rain Dance Solid tank, Water Absorb has great synergy with Mag. Unfortunately Wing Attack is physical and Bubblebeam is 60 power. Gen 3 movesets are so painful to work with. -Furret: Strength/Iron Tail/ Helping Hand/Follow Me Furret jusy kinda showed up and did damage. There’s not much else to it. -Medicham: High Jump Kick/Reversal/Detect/Confusion Originally this was a Hitmontop, but I was so disappointed by how Triple Kick was it’s only usable move that I had to replace it later. Medicham isn’t that much better but at least HJK does good damage.

[@ImportedCheese]

Truly a colosseum moment

[@spindash64]

I went with Typhlosion, Espeon, Qwilfish, Flygon, Murkrow, Ampharos, and Furret in a bit of a rotation. Follow Me is pretty dang helpful, and so is STAB Sludge Bomb

[@Rubner5]

Yes, Remoraid is an absolute pain to grind but (in my experience because I've used it in my first playthrough) I don't think it is the worst pokémon in the game as when it evolves into Octillery it does good damage and has a great movepool, making it actually usable in the mid to late game despite its lack of speed unlike stuff like Yanma who can never become usable no matter what, so it has an edge based on that alone. I'd move it up a tier at least.

[@ImportedCheese]

base level 20 is SO AWFUL...I will not allow remoraid propaganda :FlameThrower:

[@athath2010]

@@ImportedCheese to be fair, you DID allow plusle propaganda

[@Canyoutakeitallaway]

@@athath2010 Can confirm that Plusle is absolutely bout that life in Colosseum. Give it a chance. I'm gonna try it with Remoraid next lol

[@ImPyroChad]

Lowkey I think the bulkier pokemon actually are a lot more useful here than you normally give them credit, especially with how barely anything in this game is strong enough to OHKO at all💀

[@ImportedCheese]

Most certainly not, bulky pokemon are worthless. Even saying they're useful for walling while tossing pokeballs is too much credit

[@inkubus6192]

@@ImportedCheese I don’t think the “dead pokemon don’t do damage”, extreme MONKE style of play works when _this_ is the roster you’re given, Cheeseman. “Why would you be taking damage?” Because your best damage dealers are Espeon, who fails to OHKO things consistently, and Makuhita, who hits after everything else on the field. Love your analysis, but that contradiction is glaring.

[@topichu970]

was about to defend qwilfish, but turns out intimidate is its hidden ability

[@ImportedCheese]

It would still be awful even with intimidate, SAD

[@moeeyeguy531]

His appreciation of Jumpluff does bring a tear to my eye. This is his first step in turning to the grass side 😈

[@ImportedCheese]

Not gonna happen

[@TheSandwhichman108]

I wouldn’t feel too bad using the pokeball glitch in this game. Mainly cause this game is absolutely brutal. Screw honor and screw dignity your ass just needs to survive.

[@ImportedCheese]

Well...you do play as a thief lol

[@patathatapon]

Over the years I've learned to dig in my heels on General Amelia. Mostly because, thematically, I like the idea of a little girl in a giant suit of armor. Also, I feel like Umbreon would have been better if it was given Reflect instead of Espeon. Then umbreon could just go full support at the start while Espeon just kills literally everything.

[@ImportedCheese]

General Amelia is hilarious, and with Seth to pick up the slack you can do whatever you want lol

[@patathatapon]

@@ImportedCheese My favorite Sacred Stones run to date was a no Seth hard mode run. I allowed grinding specifically for Amelia, and Ross to a lesser extent. Once Amelia hit general, I'd throw her into a group of enemies (I gave her my free boots because I enjoy the salt from the tears of others) and she'd just wipe out the board because she doubled everything. Go little girl, kill your former countrymen! We're the good guys! We brainwash little girls into genocide machines!

[@TheAxeLordOfFire]

My man knows what's up! It's such a cool character arc in that regard. :D

[@AniGaAG]

Oh, love the new visuals. The Pokémon icons work really well for this.

[@ImportedCheese]

The icons are only here because I had them for the Snag Swap Challenge, but I might use them again. They're a real pain to download...

[@ceciunni]

great video, i always die at "horrible stats! horrible typing! horrible movepool! this thing's horrible!"

[@ImportedCheese]

you'll never hear it this many times in another list again, at least I hope not

[@redflare4423]

Love this man, has a radio voice and good comedic timing. Really reminded me just how limited the roster really seems.

[@ImportedCheese]

The jokes write theselves....ledian....pls...

[@ElekktrOde]

@@ImportedCheese U have to do pokemon XD gale of darkness next! great vid :D

[@topichu970]

hey, just wanted to let you know these videos are perfect to have running in the background over and over while doing chores :^)

[@ImportedCheese]

I7d rather do chores than plan this game again

[@TheEeveeKing]

Thoughts on Colosseum: It's a solid enough battle simulator with a story, but the content in it lacks something to be desires. The real draw to this game is that it's all double battles, making it a perfect introduction as to why double battles are good. It's a step or two up difficulty wise compared to most Pokémon games, there are a couple of fights you can lose if you don't come prepared. (Yes, online battling is harder by a significant degree, but what game's single-player is harder then the online?) The Pokémon available in this game are pretty laughable, but it's still better then looking for Kanto Pokémon the player's used since gen 1 to sweep the game, even if the selection does take a few years off my lifespan.

[@TheWrathAbove]

I'd argue that it's main issue is that it's largely just outclassed by XD which does everything it does but way better.

[@ImportedCheese]

I'd argue that it's main issue is that it's largely just outclassed by XD which does everything it does but way better. Let's Snagging comments!

[@verymelonman12]

@@TheWrathAbove The official sequel SHOULD be better so that's not much of an argument. Granted, XD is completely outclassed by Pokemon XG: NeXt Gen but that's a romhack.

[@alicevioleta3184]

basically yeah, the limited roster is weak but it makes you use your head. pokemon but difficult is cool. doubles are cool. story kicks ass, soundtrack SLAPS. amazing game.

[@joeschof_95]

Love watching you stream this and can’t wait to watch the tier list!

[@ImportedCheese]

It's been edited for B R E V I T Y (still and hour and a half...)

[@troykv96]

General Amelia is suboptimal, but at least isn't an active liability like to use a Grass Type in one of the worst games to be a Grass Type. There isn't enemy Swamperts as far as I remember, so using Grass attacks most of the time is just using poor man water attacks that is resisted for half of the types in the game.

[@ImportedCheese]

Sounds about right

[@Zersetzor]

Let's be honest, this game was just a way to make Pokemon available after the shifting cave or whatever it was called didn't work out.

[@ImportedCheese]

Gen 3 was the original dexit

[@Zersetzor]

@@ImportedCheese Unironically yes. I actually quit the franchise over that.

[@beaksters]

That one shiny scizor with every ribbon would like to talk to you

[@ImportedCheese]

I saw that thumbnail! Not the video tho

[@borby4584]

Hey man, in retrospect, I think you were too hard on Dunsparce. Sure it’s not the best, but when it evolves into Dudunsparce, while it’s slow, it still can hit fairly hard and- …wait. You mean Dudunsparce was literally only added in Gen 9? It doesn’t evolve at all until Scarlet and Violet? …seriously?! … Okay yeah no you were right. This mon is TERRIBLE!

[@ImportedCheese]

Recorded before the discovery of Dudunsparce! ...at least they added Sunflourish, right...?

[@redjirachi1]

@@ImportedCheese If they actually give Sunflora some justice with an evo, make it a Grass/Fire type like a literal sun flower. I call it Sunflorist

[@eduardoftb]

This game really was just "Pay us 50$ so you can complete your pokedex"

[@ImportedCheese]

I want a refund

[@Skawo]

Rewatching this, the "Ho-Ho-Horrible" got me

[@ImportedCheese]

Christmas is cancelled

[@christiandevey3898]

Misdrevous: "Don't cry for me, I'm already dead."

[@ImportedCheese]

Good type tho

[@AnimaLepton]

17:30 you also can't transfer anything over until beating the main story IIRC, since there's no badge mechanic around controlling traded pokemon. 26:40 hilariously, the speedrun utilizes Taunt. Because Enemy animations can't be turned off, Taunt is the closest you can get to skipping animations early on, and it's ends up faster to use it + have Espeon attack than have Umbreon faff around with Bite.

[@ImportedCheese]

Well at least you can disable animations in modern pokemon games, right?

[@SomeGalwithaYTaccount]

Can't believe that furret was the highest normal type for once

[@ImportedCheese]

Only in the Colosseum!!

[@marcoasturias8520]

Hey, it is the best pokemon for a walk

[@armythecat]

Really, how do you have such a good voice? It is just a perfect voice for someone narrating stuff or just kinda monologuing, like you do in your videos

[@ImportedCheese]

Thank you!! Very useful for being a keyboard warrior

[@b6oy1004]

great video, was both really informative and entertaining and the editing is amazing too in retrospect it makes sense why everyone seems to play through this with nearly identical teams because what the hell are you gonna do with like three quarters of these chucklefucks

[@ImportedCheese]

Just pick quilava and have him cook!

[@Lumix_Corrupt]

1:26:25 brother that is just scovillain, you literally just predicted scovillain

[@ImportedCheese]

Psychic type?!

[@crisnopacote4384]

If triple kick had triple Axel base power could be good, a 120 base power stab could be pretty good

[@ImportedCheese]

Technician triple kick finally viable?!

[@DarkSoulsSauron]

not to be a hopeless contrarian, but i actually think the low power levels are an intentional choice. Doubles was and always has been a very high-power, fast format that prioritizes focus-firing your enemies due to the ability to double target an enemy mon. in VGC almost every pokemon needs to run protect to call out and punish your opponent from getting to greedy. Stall basically doesn't exist in VGC So, because the game can't assume you're a pro VGC player and also you're not running optimized sets, the low power level allows for different strats outside of the offense-focused meta of doubles. you can't easily one shot enemies and they can't one shot you, so it keeps the tempo of the fights low and allows you to use status moves, stall strats, and other things that historically work better in singles [which the majority of the audience has the most experience with] but not in doubles.

[@ImportedCheese]

that's insane tropium, the devs were just inept lmao

[@bananaspice1967]

My father, I require content now

[@ImportedCheese]

You must wait. You have two days to R I P E N

[@bananaspice1967]

@@ImportedCheese *dies of death*

[@EZog58]

Espeon is definitely top tier, Umbreon probably B or so? Being bulky and low power may sound bad, but helping hand can support your damage dealers and sometimes it's better to face tank shadow rushes when snagging is your top priority. I remember doing a pure Umbreon Espeon playthrough years ago and it was notable that Umbreon's primary moves were Return and Toxic lol.

[@ImportedCheese]

Wish it actually had helping hand...

[@EZog58]

@@ImportedCheese Wait, it doesn't? Swore it did! Yeah, that's not great for Umbreon at all.

[@Mr._Ultracool]

Umbreon can still be pretty solid, though. If you teach it Moonlight, it heals a ton of HP which, coupled with its amazing bulk, makes it pretty hard to actually kill and thus a great choice for capturing an opponent's 'mon

[@veraxiana9993]

I only caught a handful of the livestreams during the playthrough but my dude i see how many countless hours you're putting into your content and it's very well appreciated!💜

[@ImportedCheese]

Thank you! This list was R E S E A R C H E D

[@veraxiana9993]

@@ImportedCheese oh god i just saw the ending too and LMAO you can't make that up that's comical timing at its finest

[@bluegum6438]

This was my first Pokemon game, ended up with Bayleef I think because Ash had one. I remember playing the game a lot (I used only Meganium and Altaria and grinded them both up to Lv. 100) but don't think I ever finished it somehow. When I got Ruby later on it was like eating restaurant ramen after only having packet ramen all my life, "ohh, this is what it's actually supposed to be like?"

[@ImportedCheese]

yeah...barren game Thematic to a desert region!

[@redrazorx-23]

Something i find funny is that when i faced Evice as a kid he was damn near impossible(mostly because i was underleveled and half my team sucked but hey this is colosseum)but as an adult i faced him again and my Hitmontop demolished half his team by himself…it actually had an adamant nature which was the only reason I decided to use it.

[@ImportedCheese]

triple kick gaming?!

[@redrazorx-23]

@@ImportedCheese nah i gave it Brick Break

[@Samo-ju7hk]

Tbh I do feel you're undermining Surf a bit in this game, might be half power being a spread move and all, but Helping Hand is a thing in this game (you get it right away with Espeon) which boosts it back to normal 95 power. Plus with Stab and the Mystic Water you're most likely going to KO both mons you're fighting at the same time with any of the water types you get it with (even Quagsire), since enemy teams suck lol. It makes grind sessions in the colosseums way faster, and the entire Mt.Battle section with the Cipher Admin Entei guy a complete non issue since most trainers there has rock and ground mons. Quagsire in particular also gets Yawn which helps with catching, honestly a really good strategy with this game is spamming Helping Hand Surf or Protect Earthquake with Espeon and Quagsire and then Reflect Yawn for stalling catches (most shadow mons have physical attacks). I do think overall Quilava Espeon is probably the better duo since you're probably gonna be KO'ing everything turn 1 but the water types are definitely a good alternative for an Espeon team mate. Dunno how I feel with Umbreon and Skiploom above Quagsire, Skiploom is faster but it's only big niche is sleep powder and not much else, good for catching but not so much for damage. Umbreon is kinda in the same boat but worse I feel, good for taking hits but what is it gonna do after? 60 power Bite or Faint Attack? Doesn't have any moves that can sleep or paralysis to make it really good for catching, it kinda has a similar role to Bayleef in that it does medicore damage and that's it. Meanwhile Quagsire has sleep for catches and Stab Surf and Earthquake, only real thing holding it back is it's speed which is why I wouldn't put it higher then anything above Meditite. Good tier list though otherwise! A lot of the mons in this game wish this was a gen 4 game lmao, no physical/special split, no gen 4 evolutions and gen 3 learnsets kill a lot of them.

[@ImportedCheese]

You can definitely stack multipliers to make surf good. Water types can't keep getting away with it

[@RedDragonForce2]

@ 46:32 I’m curious if you’ve seen Chuggaaconroy’s LP or at least the video on his compilation of Misdreavus just not being affected by things.

[@ImportedCheese]

I have not, I just replayed the game before this list

[@RedDragonForce2]

@@ImportedCheese I understand. And sure, Misdreavus isn’t the best Ghost Type out there, you said it yourself: AI is that bad. Also, calling Pokémon bad just because they aren’t sweepers or able to beat other Pokémon in 1 or 2 hits is just wrong. This isn’t competitive.

[@ThePe5e]

@@RedDragonForce2 He mentiones this pretty much every tier list and also did here. A pokemon is bad in the context of the tier lists if it does a bad job of getting you to the end of the game in a resonable amount of time. Not that it can't be done with those. They are just worse or straight up bad at doing it. If one mon needs 3 or more turns to knock out most mons and another one only needs 1 or 2, then it's pretty clear that the first one is just bad in this regard. This isn't a competitive PvP list but it ranks mons on their viability. Ranking mons that do worse lower should be obvious.

[@deltaquarayza]

I have never heard a roster of...well, anything described as anaemic. 10/10 commentary as per usual, sir!

[@ImportedCheese]

I lost a lot of blood trying to survive thos game

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I feel like Misdreavus is being sold a bit short. The Entei Admin is actually a genuinely hard fight, that "just kill them" doesn't work for. Quilava literally just dies, and your other good choices are slim. Misdreavus is immune to both his field nukes, it is prone to making him kill HIS OWN pokemon more than yours, it is perfect for just sitting there, not dying as you hose down the other pokemon in Potions. I would 100% agree if it weren't for this fight. It AT LEAST has similar energy to gen 1 Butterfree. Great for the first real roadblock, then who cares, you just got an Entei to replace it with.

[@ImportedCheese]

We just beat Dakim with some real trash (had to use Hitmontop/Sudowoodo) and earthquake spam sounds scary, but as with all trainers his AI is wonky and his pokemon are all slow and (specially) frail - Typhlosion and Espeon can easily take them all out (Except for entei, who you want to catch anyway.) I think we gave Misdrevous enough credit, it exploits the AI well, but its base stats are just....too gen 2

[@LordRemiem]

I want you to keep the THIS THING IS HORRIBLE joke! It's a meme and memes make a channel famous!

[@ImportedCheese]

Uh only if the pokemon are actually horrible tho

[@roofon]

I tried to do a mono flying playthrough of this game, for funsies I guess when revisiting it. No idea why I did it because it's atrocious. I used yanma for a bit. I looked up and realized it *literally* can't learn a bug move.

[@ImportedCheese]

One more gen until yanmega

[@solarstorm5242]

This is going to be glorious… Son, bring me my bike… We’re going on a trip through the sands of time themselves! Also, Chadbreon… Funny. I’m waiting to see how long you’ll take to put it in the C tier for its availability only, since its offenses and even supportive capabilities are terrible.

[@ImportedCheese]

There is no C tier. This game is too awful

[@JacobMcBaggins]

Still v proud of coming up with that Sunflourish pun

[@ImportedCheese]

Thank you for your contribution!!

[@AL-nv4gk]

Hyper mode should be reimagined as something more useful like if you achieve hyper mode that's when Mega's Dyna's and Z moves become available just don't make it cheap. Should make if feel skill based and rewarding to activate.

[@ImportedCheese]

I dunno the hyper mode mechanics, but I think a hack called XG makes shadow pokemon actual killing machines, Cipher still hasn't worked out the kinks

[@lxagamer3]

36:15 slugma is also from generation ii, not iii

[@ImportedCheese]

I've gotten this comment like 10 times - might hav been an editing problem, but it might also be that people primarily listen to the video. I'm pretty sure I pause and stare at the camera, I know it's a gen 2 pokemon lol

[@darthmaul5413]

jolteon in xd is s tier Vaporeon in xd is a tier Espeon in xd is s tier Flareon is b tier Umbreon in xd is b tier

[@windwaker0rules]

Vaporeon is worse than Umbreon because no surf, it's best move is water gun until hydro pump which is unreliable

[@ImportedCheese]

uh are you lost

[@darthmaul5413]

@@windwaker0rules Vaporeon gets Water Pulse by tm at Area 2 of Mt. Battle

[@windwaker0rules]

@@darthmaul5413 that still not very good, you have less offensive presence then seel and shellder. And lack even the bulky defensive utility of Umbreon just spamming helping hand

[@frankwest5388]

I don’t know if it’s a joke about how Slugma was more known for being in Hoeen but it is a Jotho mon. I guess stab flamethrower + flame body is not objectively unusable?

[@ImportedCheese]

You could pair Slugma with Skarmory for the double gen 3 but actually 2 fake out Fake out is good in doubles!

[@frankwest5388]

@@ImportedCheese yeah. I also think that most people associate those two mons with Hoeen more than Joto. Simply because they are actually in those games and reasonably accessible. (Seriously Slugma is a 1% encounter in one short route and Skarmony is a Gym 8 locked version exclusive)

[@foggernaut8876]

Personally I think Croc belongs in Es tier, it was the original starter in the speed run of the game. It wasn't until manipulation that Quilava became faster.

[@ImportedCheese]

Yeah it could be. Fire type favoritism?!

[@GodzillaCO]

1:26:46 this man predicted Scovillain

[@ImportedCheese]

Psychic type?!

[@ihaveapersonaaddiction]

I love Wes's goofy smile in the intro, it's so stupid

[@ImportedCheese]

He's in the wrong game if he wants to smile

[@draconichero3474]

Would love to see you do this for XD Gale of Darkness

[@ImportedCheese]

Uh maybe someday, we'd have to do a playthrough first

[@draconichero3474]

@@ImportedCheese Can't be any worse than what you just did for Colosseum, right? I mean, at least from what I remember you can purify much earlier in the game and you get 6 different typed Pokemon (including Hondour if memory serves) (looks it up) Yup. I was right. Plus, you can evolve your starting Eevee into whatever you want of your choosing, so I'm sure you'll have comments for that. Regardless of how long it takes, you always find a way to make things entertaining. You have a wonderful brand of unapologetic humor and I salute you for it XD

[@orangesilver8]

Alright up next it's time for gale of darkness ratings. I don't remember this one well enough to be confident that it was good but Gale of Darkness was good and I will fight you over it.

[@ImportedCheese]

You won't have to fight me because I agree with you!

[@Leafsw0rd]

You know, according to rumours Dunsparce will soon join the Johjoke squad.

[@ImportedCheese]

I can't trust a leafblade knock off!!

[@765craven4]

I haven't played Colosseum in years but I've always felt XD was just a better game. Longer, more content and a better story. Better Pokemon selection by a fairly wide margin (and it honestly still isn't great). One thing I greatly appreciate about these games is that the boss fights are genuinely hard enough that they often require planning, which is more than most official Pokemon games. I've been playing a hack of XD called XG Next Gen that's been genuinely pretty good so far, and very challenging. Edit: Grass can be useful in this game mostly because of Status moves, which can help with catch rates and to potentially prevent them from KOing themselves with recoil. Edit 2: Made the 1st edit before the Skiploom section

[@costby1105]

Many pokemon have higher catch rates in this game anyways. only Skarmory(45 - 15), Tropius(200 - 45), Tryanitar(45 - 10) and Togetic(75 - 45) have lower catch rates. Everything else has either the same or higher catch rate including entei, Suicune, Raikou and Metagross which all have a catch rate of 15. Throwing a pokeball at a fully health shadow Entei, will give you the same chance to catch as an ultra ball against a one hp Regular Entei.

[@765craven4]

@@costby1105 Very true. But if you're stuck in a fight against a Shadow Pokemon and you wanna maximize your chance at getting a catch before it KOs your team or itself it's handy to be able to sleep it

[@costby1105]

@@765craven4 Of course, but in tougher fights you might want a stronger pokemon. So thunder wave may be good enough.

[@ImportedCheese]

I dunno anyone who thinks XD is worse than colosseum

[@765craven4]

@@ImportedCheese I think that's just because XD is pretty much an objectively better game.

[@CelticMagician]

Please ignore if someone has brought it up already, but since it doesn't seem to be mentioned: Slugma and Macargo are Jhoto Pokemon. Not Hoenn. They were introduced in Gen 2.

[@ImportedCheese]

It's only been brought up about 7 or 8 times. Honest question, do people actually watch the videos or just listen? I literally pause and smirk at the camera.

[@inkubus6192]

Slugma’s a Johto Pokemon, only as far as you accept that Pokemon not found in Johto can be Johto Pokemon. Which I don’t. (Looking at you, Houndour.)

[@formy52]

That Jehovah's Witness pamphlet at the end broke me, that was so funny, and the Hymn of the Faith playing in the background, priceless. Not sure if you've played Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, but if you have, it'd be cool to get an in-game tier list of one or two games from that series. There's a good variety of pokemon, mechanics that are different and interesting, and it's the sort of game that would be hard for people to know 'what's good' unless they've ran through PMD a couple times.

[@ImportedCheese]

I played PMD once, I'd probably have to again to make a list.The preamble would also be like......an hour long

[@formy52]

@@ImportedCheese hmm, yeah, it probably would be a lot of effort. We'll, I'm sure it'll come round between now and the end of the time. I'll just bide my time until the inevitable Pokemon Conquest tier list.

[@genesis7838]

@@ImportedCheese also, at least in explorers, you can't bring extra party members for most story missions and every other mission is easy so the list would basically be "this is the starter you want to reset for"

[@athath2010]

@@genesis7838 which could be fine for a shorter video! maybe the pt. 2 could (only) cover the 3rd/4th wheels who're actually worth getting, with the others not even being tiered.

[@formy52]

@@genesis7838 ah, of course, I completely forgot about that. A PMD starter/partner tier list might be good, as it would be way shorter like the above poster says. Still, that would all depend on Cheese replaying one of them which is obviously a big ask.

[@Alex-mq6qi]

26:09 I beat the Orre Colosseum maybe twice and nope'd out of Mt. Battle after the story required me to be there. That explains how I got to the Greevil battle with level 50 Pokemon I guess.

[@ImportedCheese]

G A M E P L A Y

[@JFarenci]

The worst part about colosseum is that there isn't more of it.

[@ImportedCheese]

Awfully generous, what's there is bad, too!!!

[@heroicvileplume7184]

"Is it the Dawn Brigade?" "No, it's just Murkrow"

[@ImportedCheese]

You'll like the next upload

[@Daan_Knobbout]

The exodia of HORRIBLE

[@ImportedCheese]

Hey that's not fair. Exodia only has 5 components, this game has far, far more losers than just 5...

[@TheGrandRevo]

Slugma is Gen 2…

[@ImportedCheese]

sure pal, and skarmory too, huh?!

[@logans.7932]

Here’s what I’ll say to keep Dunsparce out of Johto’s Finest: please don’t be mean to him he’s just a baby :(

[@ImportedCheese]

He gets to be onscreen the entire time! He's the heart of the Orre-boros!

[@humu936]

im having a hard time deciding which fighting type to choose between medicham and hariyama for my playthrough. which one would be better? my current team is: espeon quilava flaffy quagsire vibrava (i will catch it when i get to this point)

[@ImportedCheese]

I suggest playing a different game Hariyama I guess

[@humu936]

@@ImportedCheese wdym play a different game? is it that bad? lol

[@Queterra]

@@humu936Nahhhh it’s fun. He hates it and that’s valid, but I absolutely loved it.

[@cn8229]

The roster being underpowered is actually one of the best things about the game, imo. I always found myself being able to use really weak pokemon and appreciating what they can do, which isn't something most of the mainline games can really say. This coupled with the difficulty of snagging pokemon and the double battles makes the fights much more interesting than in most vanilla games. I kind of like the harsh level curve for the same reason, but that's a bit less defensible. Obviously none of this will appeal to people who want to smash through everything with a team of strong mons, but eh, it's a spin-off for a reason. Also, Espeon and Umbreon are the best starters in any pokemon game, change my mind :P

[@ImportedCheese]

Appreciate deez nuts, I had to use all this garbage in a challenge, there's no hope for any of them

[@cn8229]

​@@ImportedCheese Wouldn't recommend trying Garbage Green then haha

[@sarasaland4709]

1:29:36 I regularly come back to this video purely for this comedic masterpiece moment

[@BHox01]

Obviously people can like/dislike whatever they want (including you, cheese), but as someone who played this for the first time as an early adult, I feel you are way too hard on this game's gameplay experience. Obviously the roster is very small, much below usual standard of quality, and very back-loaded, but as long as you avoid the truly nuclear options like remoraid, yamna, deliberd, etc. the game offers a unique challenge where you can't generally steamroll every opponent, especially if you are catching every eligible encounter. Ironically, I think the game would have felt better without mons like espeon, quilava, and the legendaries because of the massive disparity between them and most of the other options. Leaning into the resilting slower, longer and more challenging battles also would have made the game feel less content-barren (though obviously adding content is the preferred solution here). And I also don't remember anywhere near the amount of level scaling issues you're describing (my jaw dropped at the mention of 4 rounds of optional colloseum gauntlets). Though maybe this is just the ramblings of a jaded adult that had more fun with this game than almost all of the main series because it actually dared to make a different game than Red/Blue ver.CurrentYear with the monsters and mechanics we all know and love

[@ImportedCheese]

I'd say fair enough, but Ijust finished a challenge playthrough of the game two weeks ago and it's uh....it's not for me lol Cool concept though!

[@BHox01]

@@ImportedCheese yeah no comment on rotating your team with every encounter, that definitely sounds horrible lol

[@TheCottonCandie]

i will say, when it comes to tank pokemon, a good case can be made for having it as your side pokemon while you spam earthquake or magnitude if you don't have a flying type or w/e [good example: umbreon can take a couple before you need to swap]

[@ImportedCheese]

Just protect with a good pokemon!!

[@bossrosslp]

What I will say about this game... Play XD instead :3 Better yet, play XG, the XD hack that adds moves, abilities and retooling up to Gen 7. They have a bunch of little tweaks and changes here and there to freshen things up and make the game worth replaying, they make bad pokes good (Murkrow is a menace for example), and just all around it's the best way to play an Orre game. Bit of a shame about Colosseum though. It has a neat premise, but good lord are the Shadow Pokemon boring as they are.

[@ImportedCheese]

XD improves on everything except they nerfed the protagonist

[@bossrosslp]

@@ImportedCheese The reverse of FE6 to FE7 :3

[@JoeShmoe102]

Wasn't this game mostly made to get people to fill out rest of the pokedex not available in RSE/FRLG?

[@BHox01]

It turned into the most unique pokemon rpg in existence, very fun experience if you dont mind a challenge and using mons from a set of limited, subpar options

[@ImportedCheese]

It's all a scheme...they cut them from RSE to sell them to you here

[@drewsmith8471]

I'm gonna just say that Quagsire is actually very strong in this game. You say it's stats are horrible, but it only has 1 weakness (and grass is bad anyways), it has good hp and solid physical defense. This coupled with its typing makes it surprisingly bulky. Also 85 base attack is pretty good when you use a stab earthquake. My favorite combo was jumpluff + quagsire, and either cotton spore or sleep powder with jumpluff and often k/o both of the opposing mons with a single earthquake (especially with soft sand). Very underrated on this tier list

[@ImportedCheese]

Don't fall for the super effective swindle, and bulk is worthless anyway. Sad!

[@drewsmith8471]

@@ImportedCheese lol I never said anything about super effective. Just saying that earthquake is an objectively great move in this game, especially when your partner pokemon is a flying type or has levitate. And with Quagsire's STAB boost and *decent attack Stat it's a very powerful move. I don't even particularly like Quagsire, I just played through the game for the first time in years recently and was pleasantly surprised how good he was

[@incineroar9933]

You know who needs a grass/fire form or Evo? Tropius. Tropical plants need additional heat to survive in colder climates like the one I live in. Also being quad weak to ice in a colder region/area would be a death sentence.

[@ImportedCheese]

Just give Tropius something, man

[@dany_fg]

Nintendo: "make a Pokémon game" developer A: "sure, what is a Pokémon?" developer B: "Done" developer A: "wait wha-" Nintendo: "thanks"

[@ImportedCheese]

They did their best

[@jacobhollo5329]

Thanks!

[@ImportedCheese]

Thank you for your contributions

[@Spyno41]

Idk if someone already pointed out, but the reason why the roster was mostly gen 2, it's because gen 3 couldn't interact with gen 2. So the only way to complete the pokedex was to play Colosseum and XD.

[@ImportedCheese]

It's all a RACKET

[@alexshafer7374]

Please try out some romhacks sometime! I would like to hear your thoughts on an in-game tier list for Pokemon Fools-gold, in particular.That game re-arranges every pokemon to be a different type with new movesets as well.

[@ImportedCheese]

Pokemblem will probably be the first rom hack we do a list for

[@stagelights_]

looked up yanmas stats, i literally felt sick to my stomach after seeing them.

[@ImportedCheese]

Disgusting

[@Nauriek]

You know what this video made me want to see in a Imported, Premium-Quality Cheesy edition? A Pokemon Stadium tier list! Like, seriously, if there's one game with a more garbage roster than Colloseum, it *has* to be Stadium's rental roster. And i really want to see you put it on Blast Burn!

[@ImportedCheese]

Uh maybe...no promises tho