POLARIZING characters in fighting games ASMR guilty gear street fighter etc

[@SaishuuKessen]

www.patreon.com/saishuukessen www.paypal.com/paypalme/finalshowdown?locale.x=en_US linktr.ee/claytonsomedude

[@icecold__]

Severe lack of fighting game enthusiast in our “community” for certain. Love the theory and discussion videos.

[@todoro]

Most of the fgc is only interested in RPS and coin flips. Anything that scales up to something like a Chess mindset is scary and god forbid, encourage knowledge checks and critical thinking. Most fgc player also have zero experience with actual forms of fighting other human beings with their physical body. The fg devs are no different.

[@UsingGorillaLogic]

Honestly this will keep happening as long as people keep buying any slop these developers make. If I don't like a game because I think it is bad, I don't buy it. I think there is sadly this sense of loyalty people give these developers even though they are making games worse than before and that isn't just a fighting game thing that is gaming in general right now.

[@spitfiremanlizerd]

super turbo did have alot of stuff where the stars aligned....you really need to get the normals, and specials right. You can have some new character archetypes that can be fun to play, but the actual matchup can end up being a pretty shallow slog. Yeah some stuff is frustrating, but at a certain level you appreciate in a new light with nuanced strategies and skill checks give you new openings. You see that alot in ST. Are we going to see a lot of these in a pre-planned game like SF6? Hell no. JP is something different, and for SF6 he has a lot of tech, but at the end of the day how you fight him for all the MU is pretty straightforward even if it is "different" and it all devolves into spamming 50/50s against each other anyway.

[@GarzaTheFather]

One thing I’ve noticed about new fighting games Clayton is that all developers are so worried about making the entire roster, balanced to the point where low tiers easily compete with top tiers they put this in the game design. I don’t think that’s right if you look at a game like streetfighter 2 the game is made for you to counter pick. the people that annihilate people with e Honda are pros that have been playing the game for years and no pretty much all the matchups and could counter them you have to be especially skilled for that. Where as a game like Dragon Ball fighters I’m saying fighters because I’ve actually played that game. Not strive. You have a character like krillian who was the weakest character in the game, not anymore, but still pretty low on the tier can easily compete with like android 21 players if they are low if it’s top-tier competitors than most the time no but that’s super exceptional

[@user-nt1yb5kr8x]

@Clayton, what are your thoughts on plus frames on block, looping block string pressure and extreme 5 way mixups? E.g. DBFZ style crossup left right/low/overhead/throw. GO1 style offence. I personally feel like fighting games are best as spacing and timing games and worse when they are oppressive and guess heavy, but I'm curious to hear your insight.

[@sorubro2193]

In the end, daisuke just wanted to be patted in the back

[@TheSupremeSussy]

The Polarizing Express

[@drpotato5381]

You didnt live through top 1 happy chaos lol he was another level of broken but at least he was high exection and intersting in a game that was pretty much baby mode for most things. Another reason ,other than Happy Chaos, they added bursts too is because there were a lot of burst safe routes that did almost as much dmg as the non-burst safe routes. The game was somewhat balanced around the characters being really strong so they gave you really strong defensive option (FD,Instant Block FD,YRC) having burst not really being a viable option broke the game in a way.

[@gomiggang]

Yeah clayton doesn't play strive 😂

[@Yonnireed0101]

JP and happy chaos broke the game

[@zachstarattack7320]

bro Clayton you would not believe just how awful this newest strive patch is. The nature of the issues aren't really in your usual wheelhouse of content on this channel but my God all the competitive folk and professional players are absolutely trashing the patch. it feels like a dragon Ball fighterZ patch not only in terms of power creep but in terms of random buffs to top tiers and random nerfs to low tiers

[@mei4n]

I want to express my opinion just bc i don't have anywhere but, it's just that, there was no need to completely rework a character in a single game like that, when i read the patch notes i had some sort of "ptsd" with Rainbow Six Siege because only in a game as bad as that one there was the need of gutting the characters and replacing them with carcasses of what they used to be. If they added the things on this patch along with the old things they used to have i think some people could argue that Strive may be a good game if you like the characters, but now i don't think so and arcsys isn't receiving any real backlash, so it's expectable for the game to become pretty much worse than it already was.

[@SaishuuKessen]

Again I dont know why anyone trusts the developers of the game in the first place. This is still the same game where the devs admitted they dont know why they put in the wall after hyping it up and what the mind game of it would be a year and a half into it.. A year and a half into saying it would be the most risky game ever to jump in they finally added some landing recovery to attacks after blocking them in the air despite of course still not needing FD to do so... Again there are interesting ideas here and there, but ultimately you got these games being made by people who dont even like all types of playstyles , can only appreciate one perspective of games etc. Thats why again you need a director to actually weed out the good ideas from the bad ideas and make sure the foundation is solid to even stand on. Look at a game like again I use +R, it added polarizing characters lets say and somehow still they dont "break" the game per se. Just make it more interesting. Because old school GG is just a more foundationally solid game than this new stuff. Again dont get me wrong as again +R does have its problems and it at that point was starting to feel a little stale in terms of what GG is to fighting games, but kliff and justice are still interesting while bringing something new to the table. Strive on the other hand brings some new stuff to the table here and there, but the general idea of the game is ass, and flawed on to many levels.

[@zachstarattack7320]

@@mei4n what do you mean they aren't receiving real backlash? All that people are doing is bitching about the patch and the bugs and the top tiers and potemkin and various other people that got shafted. sure maybe it won't affect their bottom line but they sure are getting backlash. who is your main that took the L this patch? I'm a z a t o player and I really mainly got a side grade although I think I'm net buffed it's not enough to get me out of low tier or bottom to your

[@mei4n]

@@zachstarattack7320 I mean yeah people have been mad but I don't think it's enough for arcsys to actually care about, and not only that but many have just accepted the changes and some argue that we should "Adapt and not care about execution but mind games", you know, that kind of bs discourse. I didn't play a lot of strive since it was just a game to play with some friends who are into it but i used to main Sol, and the way he's been completely changed it's just incoherent. I don't have a problem in learning a new different character since i play KOF too and have other Guilty Gear games where Sol is also different. My problem was that, everything you learned about Sol in Strive was useless because someone at arcsys thought so, i expected the obvious 5k nerfs but them getting rid of HVV loops in corner, Bandit Revolver becoming a strict combo filler, Fafnir no longer guardcrushing and dumber things that deleted unique routing options that most players (even high level) didn't use like 6H not launching the opponent on counterhit rendering this move useless, j.D having less horizontal momentum, HMC costing 100 meter and scaling a lot unlike Slayer's Last Horizon, 6p homogenization... When i saw all of these changes i just uninstalled the game, i'm not going to lose my time in other game that despises the player and expects you to adapt to these arbitrary changes, that's why i stopped playing shooters and definitely i'm not going to play something that reminds me of that kind of awful balancing.

[@greenpoolball5136]

Mini clayton is the least dangerous

[@Yonnireed0101]

Looking to hear your opinion on darkstalkers and how a new one work… the ex moves and specials sharing the same meter is something you’ve mentioned

[@SaishuuKessen]

darkstalkers doesnt interest me.

[@Yonnireed0101]

@ lol I got my answer thank you keep pumping out the content

[@eebbaa5560]

do you have any videos where you discuss your perspective on guilty gear strive? or just any recommendations in general for where i should start with your channel? i’d like to hear your thoughts on that game as a whole as someone who has never played another guilty gear game. i discovered your channel after being recommended your “slave to the system” video, and hearing genuine discussion about fighting games and game theory from someone who isn’t trying to fake positivity and pretend like everything devs do is perfect was pretty novel to me. it’s been so frustrating to see this pop culture shift of constantly glazing game devs, even in non-fighting games (deadlock comes to mind), and finding a channel with actual opinions has been refreshing, to say the least. i’ve been pretty disillusioned with sf6 lately, and i’m trying to figure out how to have fun with fighting games as a newer player who hasn’t had the chance to experience older titles but doesn’t feel compelled by the modern games. do you think that games like sf6 and ggst are worth playing? what games do you play?

[@drpotato5381]

I'm not Clayton but I have your same issue where there's nothing right now that's modern that im really excited about. You can go play old fighting games but those are discord fighters with 200 players peak on steam. Those games seem to be somewhat disappointing you either play a beginner that's a noob or you play the veteran that's played forever. You also have to genuinely schedule your matches against people. There's not many KZbinrs that make videos like Clayton everyone is playing the Twitter meta and just does whatever gets them likes, subs, donations, etc. Clayton is an actual OG player so he's honestly like a fighting game history piece lol he's been around since the inception of the DP.

[@gomiggang]

​@drpotato5381 not to mention the people that tend to play 20-30 year old fighting games on a daily basis tend to be autistic and annoying as fuck basement dwelling freaks

[@simplebutnotsolongname6642]

Clayton made a ton of videos on Strive, before and after it came out. You can just search them up.

[@spitfiremanlizerd]

Parry is a really terrible mechanic in SF6. Perfect parry I can understand, even if it's more problematic but the regular parry just reduces the entire mixup to just strike/throw ( yet overheads are inexplicably still slow) it's just a consolation prize for failing to PP, it builds drive meter which already builds fast as hell and only after multiple hits in a row. The worst part is, if the game actually had knockback on block, regular parry might be interesting because while it doesn't give frame advantage, it does leave you closer, making situations where some things may be safe on block but punishable on regular parry, or even just provide the parryer with better spacing. It could be pretty nuanced with lots of interactions, but instead this is only seen in a handful of very specific situations. as it stands, the regular ass parry has little reason to be in the game.

[@djs9997]

love your nerd talks

[@superpowerman4354]

Bro, when you gonna analyze and PREDICT how Garou 2(which has invincible DPs BTW) will be like? Also interesting topic videos.

[@SaishuuKessen]

taking to long to come out, ive lost interest. If they ever show jae hoon though ill probably check it out again.

[@superpowerman4354]

@ Ya they marketed it too early. We need a beta now

[@zachstarattack7320]

to be honest I kind of feel an element of pre-plannedness in new dizzy. again I know we already had a comment chain about this and I don't believe that I am the guy in question who just said that these are gimmicks but like if I may just go on a little bit, just the fact that every single sweep knockdown which is very easy to get off of ice spike, always goes into the exact same kfish into an empty jump delayed backwards air dash or landing low. she's just been kind of underwhelming in terms of creativity, the only fun part about her that feels very unique is just the ice floor and even utilizing lightwing feels like just killing time and waiting around for pre-planned setups to run the clock. Even the old Michael sword just feels like a really fat hitbox or combo ender

[@drpotato5381]

Michael sword is a zoning tool basically but yeah I agree she's really dull so far. The ice floor seems to make her block strings more plus tho? Her 5hs is an interesting disjoint that feels fun to use. Idk i haven't tested her much. Her animations are really nice one of the things I really love about strive is how quality the animations are hopefully in the next GG they can make a better game

[@zachstarattack7320]

@@drpotato5381 it's just really annoying because the stupid floor thing well I shouldn't say it's stupid but anyway the floor makes you go in the air and flip around up there but she doesn't have any of her air tools or air specials anymore so she just has to awkwardly stay grounded and use her shitty sixP

[@spacecat275]

You haven't explored dizzy enough if you think that's all there is to her

[@aaym2224]

do you think your opinion would change if you were actively competing in fighting games for your livelihood? I think these extremely polarising characters or mechanics probably make pro players feel like they're not being considered by the developers, and they would like them to be removed for their own sake. Again it's a fine line cause I get your argument that just because it's annoying doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't appreciate it, but there's also a fine line between diversity and uniqueness and just plain unfun game design that affects the competitive integrity of the game.

[@SaishuuKessen]

Ummm I am the person that won tournaments again while sick on disability when I was younger. I did compete and won vs people that play games much more seriously than I ever did. And ive showed that I also even in more recent years was still able to beat dudes that take games much more seriously than me and play competitively themselves despite me going for at times years without even playing. Also I do say when things are broken in games and bad game design. But theres a difference between a character being different and just straight up dumb. A example could be look at the justice example I gave, a polarizing character in the game. Now one of the characters that justice destroys is Ky. I can tell you when I signed on after not playing GG for however long it was, on a broken controller no practice, I played the from what I understand by reading discords and forums the best in America. And I was able to win. Now I can see why it's a bad match up and certainly I dont agree with everything in the game and who knows maybe if I ever played again as its been more than 2 years now maybe I would get destroyed. But sometimes these differences make the matches interesting and to understand a game you have to be able to appreciate things even if you dont like them. So again a difference between a character being polarizing and a character being straight up dumb. Theres also say I like Ryu in Street Fighter obviously. Ryus jump mp in ST does to much damage for what it is in ST. Theres time if you get a good random factor with it, you can get like half life if you just get the first hit to hit each time with the juggle. Thats just retarded. That is DUMB. Thats not a polarizing situation to me there the move just is dumb and was not thought out correctly.

[@yourdagan]

Feel like you went way too off-topic for this one, and I didn't get the illumination I was hoping for. Too few examples and too little detail, and no point.