Politicians Ruined a Brilliant Example of Universal Health Care | NYT Opinion

Imagine you’ve fallen ill. There’s fever and pain, and it doesn’t go away. A trip to the doctor’s office lands you in the emergency room. Surgery follows, then several nights in the hospital. Weeks later, after more doctor’s appointments and loads of prescription medicine, you’re all well again, fit as a fiddle.
And then they let you go on your merry way, without paying a penny. That’s right: $0.
If you’re living in the United States, that is probably the stuff of fantasies. But not for our cousins in Britain, thanks to one of that country’s most noble creations: the National Health Service.
It was founded in 1948 to provide free health care to all residents and has proudly stood as a much-loved symbol of British identity and the welfare state.
But for several years the N.H.S., which celebrated its 75th birthday last summer, has been suffering its own serious health crisis. Last winter was the worst period ever for the system. People died in their homes waiting for ambulances to arrive, and hospitals overflowed with patients, with some assigned beds jammed into corridors. Millions of Britons have waited months for surgeries, and some, unable to find an N.H.S. dentist, have resorted to pulling out their own teeth. After a decade of stagnant salaries, nurses and doctors have staged walkouts, adding to the crisis.
Now, as a new winter approaches, N.H.S. staff members fear that things will get even worse.
The crisis has led to calls for Britain to scrap universal health care and return to a private or hybrid health system, like in the United States and other European countries. But as the Opinion video above argues, the N.H.S.’s woes are not a function of how it’s funded but the result of something else entirely.
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[@vivalaleta]

The system always wants privatization. They underfund programs, make them look shabby and then seek to privatize it.

[@Praisethesunson]

You'd think the U.K would remember what happened when they did that to their rail system.

[@MBAZ1961]

U mean the matrix

[@sammavitae114]

That is the US playbook - take a public institution underfund it then claim they don’t work because they are government run and then only offer a for profit alternative. Brexit offered the opportunity to do this to every British institution. One day the English countryside will be horizon to horizon soybeans harvested by a techie with a joystick on Wall Street.

[@Arcaryon]

It’s insane how this happens everywhere, we hear the same stories in Germany. This kind of corruption is imo. high treason and should be punished accordingly.

[@baileygregory9192]

The NHS isn't underfunded it's receiving more money now than ever and it's funding has constantly been increasing even under austerity

[@101yayo]

We can all thank the conservatives for "improving" this country.

[@Sjalabais]

Yet, people keep voting against their basic interests. It's not like private healthcare is even better. It's just *looking* better if politicians break universal healthcare first. Oh...right.

[@_xeere]

Don't forget to thank Labour for helping them do it. I can't wait for 5 years of excuses from Starmer for why he has to cut spending.

[@RangerTwo]

​@_xeere I am no fan of Labour. But blaming Labour for Conservative's failure for over a decade is just stupid. Sorry for my language.

[@_xeere]

@@RangerTwo These problems did not begin in 2010. The video we're commenting under directly talks about Blair forcing the NHS to take on loans for new hospitals built with PFI. Labour may have not been the main architects of the decline, but they have been willing participants in it. They will soon continue that proud tradition.

[@askosefamerve]

​@@_xeereAnd unfortunetly, there isn't anything the British can do about it. Politics are menace.

[@NckBrktt]

Most of the "privatise the NHS" pundits have no idea how much proper healthcare is. If you pay 3k a year for private you might get a wart removed or a sore throat treated. If your child has a brain tumour or you need cancer treatment 3k isn't going to pay the cost of clean bed sheets. Many of the pundits confuse the private health care plans available in the UK with a proper healthcare system. If you have anything seriously wrong with you, many of the so called private care systems don't want to know and will direct you to the NHS.

[@echochamber1234]

Switzerland and The Netherlands have even better health systems but they're mainly private.

[@lazypops3117]

​@@echochamber1234wrong. Switzerland has a compulsory private health INSURANCE which costs 300-500 chf/euro A MONTH. every year there are grumblings about increased premiums. replacing public health with private insurance is just price gouging.

[@TillyOrifice]

So true

[@phemstros]

That is true in the US maybe, but not in the UK, if you are paying that much they actually cover a huge amount but urge you not to waste it when you could deal with some things on the NHS. Speaking from active experience of both systems. Private healthcare in the UK is the best in the world by some distance

[@ReadThisOnly]

I think the pundits know how much more expensive it is - they just don’t care. It’s sad that the folks voting in the referendum don’t know much expensive it will be.

[@MSP-km6li]

I’m an American. I have amazing health insurance on paper. Earlier this year I ended up in the emergency room at a hospital that is in network color me shocked when I was slapped with a 3k bill which my insurance refused to pay because the doctor worked a third party doctor staffing service. 6 months later my insurance company was forced to cover the bill after my employer got involved and a report being filed with our state attorney general. Moral of the story to my Uk friends you have something worth saving so save it

[@adampeters7947]

People here in the UK don't have a clue

[@Jackinacox]

Our family is supposed to have one of the best healthcare plans, still ended up paying 5K for a birth without any complication. US healthcare sucks!

[@Kittymancer78]

Honestly, my hope is that we, the U.S. populous, realize that the original UK NHS model is what everyone deserves. That we can have better than what we have now.

[@somerandomperson1503]

Good thing Obamacare made health care affordable. That’s why it’s called the Affordable Care Act, because politicians in Congress are honest. I mean sure, health costs are 10 times what they were before Obamacare, but they had good intentions when they passed it and that’s all that counts. But we definitely shouldn’t repeal it because that might actually fix a lot of the problems and we can’t have that…because then people won’t want socialist medicine anymore, which is the ultimate goal.

[@somerandomperson1503]

@@Kittymancer78 The problem with socialism is that eventually, you run out of other people’s money.

[@kenb3552]

As an American - and a fairly well-off one at that, I'd warn Britain against a two-tiered health care "system" like we have in the US. For me it's OK, but expensive. For the society I live in, it stinks, leaving too many with too few benefits - and it's expensive.

[@fcosta94]

From living in the US, I find the US healthcare very complex. There’s Medicare, Medicaid, marketplace healthcare (Obamacare), CHIP, HMO, PPO, HSA, FSA, and more. The government spends a lot of money on healthcare yet the patients end up paying a lot of money.

[@fcosta94]

Nevertheless, I see in Italy doctors called “intra moenia” who operate as private sector doctors (taking private insurance) while using government healthcare facilities.

[@Chris.Davies]

The reason it is expensive, is because your government refuses to exercise its power as a single buyer in the market. Because insurance companies do not care how much treatments cost, hospitals charge waaay too much. The government should become the not-for-profit funder for all public health. Prices would tumble immediately. In the USA you spend more than 3 times on health compared to New Zealand. But because of our efficient and well-priced health system, our medical outcomes are superior to the USA - on average. Yes, megawealthy Americans can get better health care - but at a stupid, unsustainable price.

[@kenb3552]

@@Chris.Davies No argument here. We know all this - and I agree. Average Republicans are so stupid they vote against their interest constantly because the right wingers play the communist/socialist card when it comes to "socialized" medicine and tell lies about how bad it is in other countries. I'm fairly wealthy and do fine when it comes to health care. But our system is a sad joke.

[@michaelimbesi2314]

What are you talking about? You're as ignorant of other countries as the worst Americans. Our government isn't a single buyer, or anything even close. And even if it was, that's being an anticompetitive monopsony, which is as bad as being an anticompetitive monopoly. @@Chris.Davies

[@sjdave]

Healthcare is absolutely a right and should be publicly funded.

[@andrewweaver2517]

"They" would just call it socialism and it'd never get off the floor.

[@mikolowiskamikolowiska4993]

Where do drugs come from? Doctors and nurses.? Will their training be a right also? I'm sure you think God is a right?

[@Praisethesunson]

​@@mikolowiskamikolowiska4993Their training can be subsidized by the state to crank out thousands of them cheaply. The way dozens of other more civilized nations have.

[@CliffSturgeon]

​@@mikolowiskamikolowiska4993In the US, at least, God IS a right - or at least a belief in God.

[@CliffSturgeon]

​@@mikolowiskamikolowiska4993Also, public education is also supported, generally, so yes you'd be paying for them too.

[@mintheman7]

As an American, I am very jealous of UK’s NHS, especially after I was charged $1500 for a 15-min preventative ultrasound AFTER insurance payment this year. Please fight to keep it from being “privatized.” Affordable health care is a human right, don’t let greedy companies ruin your system.

[@1DontNoclip]

I'm sorry but as soon as the army of boomers hear that the NHS is wasting too much money they will vote in masses to privatise it. It will be fine for them however, theyre the ones with money

[@dannyb7329]

My grandparents are both 80 years old, their NHS doctors are incredible and look after them so well. My grandad has heart problems and has recently been put on new medication which only recently finished trials in Scotland. He's also getting an upgraded pacemaker installed which will allow doctors to wirelessly check the status of his heart via Bluetooth! The NHS covers it all. With all the complex health conditions he has I can only imagine how much his health insurance costs would be in the states. Some politicians with private interests seek to privatise the NHS to make millions for themselves. They know that the NHS is popular with the masses so they will try to destroy it from within. We cannot let that happen, please people vote Labour in 2024, protecting and fully funding the NHS is one of their promises.

[@caaaaats9890]

​@@dannyb7329From the way Wes Streeting has been talking about the NHS, i don't think Labour is interested in protecting it from privatisation ☹

[@margaretwilson8736]

I am not jealous but I've been lucky with US healthcare. I'm relarively healthy and make decent money. NHS dentistry is in crisis. I know British people who had to pull their own teeth because they can't get a dentist. I just hope everyone can have affordable care one way or another.

[@TeeganPlayz_245]

@@margaretwilson8736lucky for me I already have a dentist in Manchester (I'm in North Wales) but I'm currently on a waiting list for braces for my teeth because I got overbite and my bottom front teeth is crowded. My mum has MS she been with the NHS ever since then she a scan every beginning of the year. I was diagnosed by autism when l was only 2 (I just begun my teenagehood last year) But they couldn't save my dad he died because his heart stopped they couldn't save him even with the attempts The truth is NHS always had been crisis but the pandemic only made it worse...

[@aduantas]

I work as an NHS doctor, Brexit did not put a stop to our hiring of IMGs (international medical graduates, i.e. foreign doctors), in fact over 60% of new entry doctors in the UK this year were foreign. The number has actually increased since Brexit, Brexit had no impact on hiring doctors from e.g. India or Nigeria (where huge numbers of NHS staff originate). The NHS hires huge numbers of doctors from developing countries to make up a deficit created by thousands of doctors leaving for Australia or elsewhere, or simply quitting, because we are paid poorly to take on enormous responsibility and work excessive hours. It also does not take 15 years to become an NHS doctor, it takes that long to become a *consultant*, a large part of which is spent working as a doctor (as I am now). The UK has some of the longest training times to reach consultant (equivalent of attending) in the world, mainly because time that could have been spent training is spent doing tasks that could be done by non doctors (we call this "service provision" and includes things like phlebotomy and writing discharge summaries, and other admin work). The NHS is crap to work in since much of the savings made by its efficiency are derived from exploiting and underpaying staff, and relying on unpaid labour. Nurses in my area announced a form of industrial action a few years ago which amounted to simply taking their breaks and not doing tasks which they aren't paid to do and it was crippling.

[@Bob-kk2vg]

Interesting considering all these news organizations with various political leanings are all saying brexit has exacerbated the staffing issue. Huh, wonder why that is?

[@10secondsrule]

I do believe you. I don't think anyone would like to work with such a low pay and huge workload. On the other spectrum there's USA. I used to live in the UK for 20 years and had to use NHS which was brilliant. Not the highest standard (I still have a titanium plate holding my bone they refused to remove even it's been uncomfortable for 15 years since they put it on a broken leg) but it was free. I can't complain. I'm in Korea now and service here is excellent and cheap with the insurance which is not that expensive and doctors are widely available. Also they seem to earn good money. As long as there's no obvious greed on any side it seems like a reasonable system to me.

[@cuttysark57]

Other than a couple of small factual inaccuracies you're not really contradicting the central points in the video.

[@soccerguy325]

This sounds like someone who voted for Brexit lol

[@aduantas]

It's not really a small factual inaccuracy to claim the NHS doesn't hire as many internationals as before, it actually does the opposite and this has nothing to do with its decline and shouldn't have been mentioned in the video. Brexit has detrimental effects on the NHS but availability of foreign doctors is not one, only availability of EU citizens.

[@tonpetitami]

So the leaders in UK really looked at the abysmal healthcare system and paltry outcomes in the US and said "good idea we should copy it here"?

[@rrubens3026]

IKR!!?? As an American enraged by our healthcare system please don't go down this path UK!

[@twosixtwosixfivetwo]

@@rrubens3026 as long as deluded, detached Tories are in power, it’s out of our control!

[@sparklynurse]

No, they looked at the US health care system and wondered how they can line their pockets in the same way.

[@AB-wf8ek]

They didn't look at the outcomes, they looked at the profits.

[@garethaethwy]

Yes. Because they & their mates can afford to go private & stand to make a lot of money in the process!

[@Morbius1963]

The NHS actually saved my life once at the age of 3 and that of my daughter aged 17. It's like finding the lifeboat which pulled you off a Greek or Italian cruise ship quietly rotting in some dingy estuary. Heart breaking.

[@blisteringnash4965]

That analogy about lifeboat is impressive and fresh. I haven't heard such analogy anywhere before but boy, it fits like a glove in your context. I learned something new today, tqsm.

[@Morbius1963]

Literally, my daughter was given 6 weeks before I could get her home to the UK. The nurse said that she had one of the best surgical teams in Europe. 25 years later she is a mother in a fine marriage. In her time in hospital, I rested in a chair by her bed, and I watched the night shift. Boy, they never stopped and I will always be on the side of nurses. AND I wasn't made bankrupt.@@blisteringnash4965

[@ReadThisOnly]

You have a beautiful way with words. It really is quite heart breaking.

[@theclownofclowns]

maybe it's some kind of intereuropean thing my american brain isn't privy to but but can you explain the "greek or italian cruise ship" metaphor?

[@Morbius1963]

I did reply but I can't see it now. Should I re-send?@@theclownofclowns

[@joshfarrell6842]

As someone who lives in the UK, and works for and receives care from the NHS. I'm really glad this reporting is being published across the pond, and further afield, because its so sad to see the demise of such a brilliant initiative.

[@janewest2845]

Same here as another NHS employee

[@joshfarrell6842]

@janewest2845 sadness is, I work in Scotland, where the NHS and its staff are slightly more protected, but it's still filtered through regardless

[@Lando-kx6so]

Blame the tory government & it will be even worse if their new anti immigration proposals go through

[@tempejkl]

@@Lando-kx6soLabour would be worse imo. Tories are too incompetent to stop immigration, under them it’s the highest its ever been

[@stephenriden7460]

The NHS - often studied, never replicated

[@lephtovermeet]

It's called the ratchet effect: do everything you can to undermine and destroy a functioning social program, then yell about how it doesn't work and the other side is to blame, then bicker about whethet yo scrap it or keep it barely functioning. It only regresses, never advances.

[@dominicgunderson]

The conservative playbook.

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

Great comment! :D

[@CB-vg1wq]

Great comment! Save the NHS, it is worth fighting for! Vote for politicians who have plans to sustain it and refund it. I am in the US, where health care is very expensive.

[@ON-YT]

Voting conservative has consequences

[@MervynPartin]

"New Labour" was conservative if not in name. All the usual right wing tricks- reneging on election promises and privatisation.

[@SunbathinginAntarctica]

​@@matthewwelch3007Labour did some really stupid mistakes in power but this Tory lot are completely incompetent and self serving, honestly they make Blair look great.

[@PhilipJackson03]

It’s a very similar thing happening to the Canadian healthcare system. Thousands across the country can’t find GP’s, our nurses have also been striking and our waiting times have extended considerably. All because of provincial governments being run by Tories who salivate at the idea of a two tier service. It’s imperative that we across the west fight and maintain our public healthcare systems.

[@eoinburke]

That seems crazy you can't get GPs, almost all the UK and Irelands doctors move to Canada or Australia. We then replace them with foreign ones, and those poor countries are down doctors and on and on along the line. I'm assuming Canadian doctors are chasing American money then?

[@ferddoesweirdthingsinlife1040]

@@eoinburkeCanadian here. The issue is that GPs, or family doctors to us isn’t a popular specialization. People are choosing less and less to go down that route, and as a result, we don’t have enough. The issue comes from burnout, as family doctors have to run their own offices, which come with admin tasks and such that make them really stressed and forces them to take a lot of roles

[@eoinburke]

​@@ferddoesweirdthingsinlife1040 That's actually the exact opposite in Ireland. The system sort of goes. Med School is 2.5k per year cost, university hospital (paid), Regional Hospital (better pay, but not great), Then GP or private specialist. Here specialists earn roughly 20% more per patient, though they are longer in the Public Hospitals. It's the training and work experience that usually results in burnout. GPs are the end goal though. 50€ per 3-10min net income. They are almost all Irish, the old ones even still have the administrators transcripbe their taped notes. They usually have 3 or 4 salaried receptionists/administrators. for 5 or 6 GPs and maybe a psychologist. Clinics are usually partnerships and money-printing machines. (only 30% of our population don't have to pay for the GP but the government gives them 60% per visit, the rest do pay the full 50€) They are generally millionaires by retirement. I live in a town of 500 and we have like 4 or 5 clinics. and the smart GP's buy or set up the pharmacies next door. Vs in hospitals, 40k starting to very max 120k (0r 150k?) for non surgens, based off of seniority in our public health system.

[@clarenceboddicker1162]

This makes me think that Barack Obama was partially vindicated when he decided not to advocate for a single payer system in 2009 and 2010. The only thing that I think you should’ve done was basically throw trillions of dollars at subsidies so people only had to pay 30 or $40 a month or what he said would be like the cost of your cell phone bill a month! He was so afraid of hitting that trillion dollar price tag that he couldn’t see the forest for the trees I’m paying $200 a month for my insurance under Obamacare And it’s good but I can afford it and not everyone else can. If you fully subsidize it, you have universal coverage and much less cost. Biden fixed some of that. But it came a decade too late and it looks like some of those provisions might expire in 2025.

[@ChasmChaos]

​​@@ferddoesweirdthingsinlife1040you are simplifying it way too much. I know immigrants from Brazil and India who were surgeons at home and can't even get recognized here as a GP. They work as bakers and data analysts instead. The Canadian healthcare system is designed to ensure the current GPs make a good living first and foremost. I do agree that politicians are structuring it so that new GPs feel overwhelmed with the amount of paperwork and just choose to not enter the field.

[@Vesta_the_Lesser]

I just want to remind everyone that privatization does NOT promote efficiency or innovation.

[@TJH1]

All I can say is that my experience of the NHS and their treatment of my ageing parents has, in general, been exemplary and that includes the last few years. No organisation, especially one of the size of the NHS is near perfect but it is something to cherish and fund. Ambulance waiting times are an issue but not unfixable. In comparison, my time in the US has shown healthcare to be something that people fear, avoid, and has a dystopian air to it when one has to go for care. I was with Kaiser and paid $1000 a month for coverage and it was still hugely problematic.

[@bostero2]

The NHS keeps being exemplary thanks to its people and their hard-work, but as the video points out, it's struggling to keep up because of lack of funding with it's budget frozen for the last 13 years of Tory governments. It's time to refund it and set it up for success, we shouldn't be having private healthcare providers inhabiting NHS hospitals which were build with taxpayer's money for instance...

[@soccerguy325]

That's great that your nurses and doctors have been good but that says nothing of the overall systemic collapse of the NHS.

[@Ty-dk2sj]

@@soccerguy325 It can be fixed, it's not going to completely collapse anytime soon. It's just the years of mismanagement and austerity that are building up a perfect storm.

[@Kittymancer78]

The U.S. needs to be seen as a cautionary tale of what happens when you allow privatization of, what is correctly considered, a human right. So many privatized hospitals have closed in some areas that people need to drive close to 50 miles to get to the closes one. Yes, it's generally in the conservative states because it's the conservatives that want to privatize everything.

[@teabagtowers3823]

​​@@bostero2 I've worked both in private healthcare and NHS in the UK. This idea that you can throw money at the problem just doesn't work. NHS needs fundamental reform throwing money at the issue won't make it go away. NHS has fundamental structural issues that needs serious reform. Something that money alone will not solve.... That and it's easy to say that private healthcare providers shouldn't be anywhere near the NHS until you see the reality on the ground. That and private healthcare providers like Spire or Circle are usually providing additional capacity because the NHS does not have the capacity to meet demands. You take that capacity away from NHS it would be even more screwed.

[@MuhammadAthallahArsyaf]

If the UK abandons UHC, it will have lost the only good thing going for it right now. Plus imagine how unaffordable healthcare would be on top of all the cost of living crisis if this were to happen?

[@an2thetonio191]

It's almost like this country hasn't had a genuine left-wing government in decades

[@taipizzalord4463]

100% Housing, higher/technical education, public transport etc are all done better in Europe than in the UK. (although the trend is towards the UK model) If the oligarchs manage to slice away universal healthcare. Then there is no reason for anyone under 35 to stay and raise a family here. May as well move to US, Australia where even though rentier costs overheads like rent and transport is much higher. The overheads are at least covered by wages more. Moving the EU is harder since Brexit. China would be the best option assuming a job offer was present, but the culture/language barriers are too great for most to overcome. And even China has over financialised housing, and is very car centric, if you ignore the mass transit you would be hard pressed to have a good cycling experience in most places so it is not a complete oasis. But at least they have HSR and they maintain their transport/energy infrastructure.

[@taipizzalord4463]

Man, when you think that countries like China, Italy and Spain used their demographic dividend in the 2000s to build HSR. And the UK cancels HS2 even though we are richer than all of those countries because of the City of London's monopoly's. You realise that our system is designed to deliver as little as possible.

[@nope110]

It’s shocking, I’ve been waiting almost 3 years for an ADHD assessment so I started to look at just going private, but it’d cost me £1500-2000 for the assessment and apparently the NHS don’t often accept their prescriptions so I’d likely also need to pay for my own prescription

[@tempejkl]

@@nope110go private. I had the option of waiting 7 years, but I wasn’t going to give up nearly 10% of my life just to wait for treatment for a disability.

[@pandugeet]

Same story here in Canada - politicians have ruined it by freezing salary growth for nurses and keeping it difficult for immigrant healthcare workers to work with massive staff shortages

[@davidscb3632]

Something that I never got in Canada, but for me as a Doctor it would have been super hard to get the permits, even though I worked for years in Germany in my specialty.

[@hg82met]

What happened to the NHS? The Tories happened. They've spent the last 13 years systematically undermining and underfunding it, and privatising it by stealth. There is no reason why the NHS - which ranked as the best healthcare system in the whole world by various metrics (by the King's Fund) only 10 years ago - should so spectacularly collapse soon after Tories got their hands on it.

[@stefandinu6389]

It's been on the decline since thatcher. The last 10 years just put the nail in the coffin.

[@tempejkl]

It’s not the best in the world and isn’t even close. There was a 7 year waiting list for me, so I just had to go private or else I would’ve been in trouble. That’s not what a functioning system looks like.

[@finianlacy8827]

They made a fortune

[@juliarohsmann6703]

There's a great German term that describes situations like these perfectly: "kaputtgespart", literally, "economised to breaking point".

[@mediocreman6323]

I'd rather translate “kaputtsparen“ with “to save money in a damaging way”, but however you translate this particular word, you have to add more, like “selling out” or “crippling incompetence” or “a leadership completely detached from reality” or “you can sell anything to British voters and those fools will swallow it hole” or, or, or… It's a tragedy.

[@3rix]

I cannot fathom why anyone in their right mind would want to make their healthcare system *more* like the US's

[@blakepollock8074]

it's just a byproduct of fraud

[@cattodotmp4]

Money.

[@cathjj840]

Privatisation doesn't bring efficiency at all to a public service. It only punctions vital resources necessary to cover expenses but not profits to give a proportion on those funds to outside actors doing nothing essential for running the service.

[@tylerdurden3722]

As always, the best systems are in the middle. It's simple, allow both private and public healthcare to coexist. Then make it mandatory for private doctors to donate some of their time to public hospitals. Plus it takes pressure off the public system. The problem is, some countries would rather sacrifice minimally adequate Healthcare because they don't want wealthier individuals to have access to better than adequate health care. Ironically, in my country, it's kind of frowned upon when a well off person uses public Healthcare (especially dental health), because they're using resources that are meant for those who can't afford better than adequate. (if you can afford to cover your own bill, you're expected to cover your own bill, at a price hospital)

[@olivergille8305]

Simple fact is that the UK spends relatively little of its GDP on healthcare compared to other highly developed countries, it's actually a relatively efficient system. The richest in society however would rather do away with the NHS, because although healthcare will cost the country a lot more overall, they themselves wont have to contribute as much.

[@spankflaps1365]

The Tories have cut the NHS funding for the last 13 years, under the guise of “austerity”, raised taxes, and pocketed all the money themselves.

[@janewest2845]

And they will try to privatize it to make more money for their doners

[@AirQuotes]

Exactly this video is incredibly biased and is poor propaganda for the tories. What a hack

[@mushroq]

@@AirQuotesit’s literally the truth…

[@teabagtowers3823]

​@@AirQuotes Oh be quiet you Daily Mail Gammon.

[@TigreXspalterLP]

Funding increased every single year, just the ratio of gdp to healthcare spending shrunk. It is misleading

[@dominicdmello7531]

And yet parliamentarians gave themselves a huge pay increase.

[@danadomino]

As an American who lived in the UK for nearly 3 years, the NHS system is great for primary care and emergency situation, but is absolutely terrible for everything in between. I have an auto-immune disease and for me to see an NHS dermatologist I had to first go to my primary care who would then write a referral and I was told I would get an appointment by mail (?!) for a dermatologist. When I finally got the letter, the appointment was for 5 months out! When the day finally came, the dermatologist told me "Oh, it looks like you'll need to get on biologics, and you can only get those medications in a hospital setting, I can't write those prescriptions in private practice here. So you'll have to see a dermatologist at a hospital. You'll receive an appointment by mail, again." I waited again for another 4 months for my appointment, I show up to an address at an outpatient clinic who tell me the same thing! That I need to see a doctor at a hospital. Why I got sent to them, I have no idea. Finally, waited another 3 months and saw a dermatologist at a hospital who told me in order to get on biologics that more than 30% of my body would need to be affected and a letter would need to be written to the medical decision board to request that I go on biologics. Absolute insanity. A whole year to finally see a derm for them to tell me these shenanigans. Don't even get me started on having to wait 10 months to see a psychiatrist because the primary care physician couldn't write my prescription for my sleeping medication for my insomnia. Insomnia medication that I had already been on for years back in the states, that I had proof of. When I returned to the states, I saw a dermatologist in private practice within 3 weeks and they immediately determined I needed to be on biologics, I had the medication in hand 2 weeks later.

[@ArnavRoy]

That is the point in the video. The government is deliberately underfunding and diverting whatever funds that actually go there, so there is actually less doctors, and hence the delays in appointments, and this has been going on since 2008.

[@johnwright9372]

What you experienced was exactly the result of deliberate underfunding for political reasons.

[@lemmingsgopop]

Fantastic piece NYT. I always point to UK politics and say that is where we're going when we put conservatives in office.

[@Charlie-gf4mv]

The absolute apathy towards the UK younger generations are feeling cannot be overstated. The last 30 years has seen some of the most egregious selfishness, and this country keeps voting for it. There seems to be no reason to stay in this country, when the next 25 years are cemented as high tax only to repair the woeful underfunding. We should always keep our problems in perspective and many other countries are undergoing similar problems and some far worse, and this is just speaking of first/second world countries. It is just a shame to see the UK in the state it is compared to where we could have been if a few decisions were made differently.

[@charlesunderwood6334]

Don't blame the young- they are the ones suffering with the policies that favour the rich and old. It is the young who wanted to be in the EU and not have Tories in power, but the old and content prevented this and the young are now suffering as a result (btw, I am not young myself).

[@olivergille8305]

As someone in their early 20s it's very anxiety inducing. I don't want to move away from my family and the area I call home but going/working abroad could pay twice as much with a lower cost of living than the UK. The alternative is to stay close to the people you love but potentially not be able to own a home until they die and you get inheritance (some people don't even have that). It just sucks because you know it wouldn't have to be like this if the economy hadn't been run almost solely for the benefit of the top 3% of earners for the last 40 years.

[@kidmohair8151]

and what has happened to the money that has been sliced from the NHS, you might ask? it has gone to tax breaks (for the already wealthy), o'n'g subsidies, other corporate handouts, and in the most recent pandemic*, to tory party chums in the form of, among other things, PPE contracts... the new aristocrats are really no different from the old ones. the names and faces have changed, but only a little.

[@dannyb7329]

My grandparents are both 80 years old, their NHS doctors are incredible and look after them so well. My grandad has heart problems and has recently been put on new superior medication which only recently finished trials in Scotland. He's also getting an upgraded pacemaker installed which will allow doctors to wirelessly check the status of his heart via Bluetooth! I can only imagine how much his health 'insurance premiums' would be in the USA. Cost is not a consideration for us with the NHS, I can't even imagine getting a bill from a doctor?! I've been fortunate to only need the NHS a handful of times myself (I'm 26) that includes being born, having a mole removed, fixing an ingrown toenail and getting my hand bandaged after an accident. The NHS is always there when we need it. Money is never a consideration, regardless of the treatment. That's the type of healthcare system the world should have and I'm proud of my country for making the NHS a reality. Unfortunately, some politicians with private interests seek to privatise the NHS to make millions for themselves. They know that the NHS is popular with the masses so they will try to destroy it from within. We cannot let that happen, please vote Labour in 2024, protecting and fully funding the NHS is one of their promises.

[@noazucar519]

Oh noo! You need to get American corporations out of the NHS! I’m warning you as an American. Part of the reason why some Americans are so money hungry is because we’re scared of our future medical costs. We have incomes that are high but we try to save as much money as possible for retirement because we do not know how much health care is going to cost us. People literally go into debt to live here.

[@Hrochnick]

Shocking and shameful.

[@patriciazandilencube4597]

I strongly recommend Jonathan Coe's 'What a Carve Up'. This fictional and satirical book explains the motivations (greed, lack of empathy) that undermined a lot of British institutions all while giving us a hilarious and creative plot-line

[@dznrboy]

Happening right now in Ontario Canada

[@izikavazo]

Alberta's gearing up for it too.

[@Jablicek]

Like our presenter, the NHS brought me into this world. I'm not sure it will still be here to take me out of it. Years of underfunding; chronic understaffing (even under Labour) ensuring hospitals have to spend squeezed budgets on agency staff; being required to take on private treatment in the public system. Programmes run as a public good aren't *meant* to make money, they're meant to be for the public good.

[@MoniiChanTheUnicorn]

We are so helpless to these evil politicians, life has gotten so much worse, I don't understand the absolute greed and corruption, its been 13 years and every year it gets worse, yet nothing ever changes

[@MushuBear]

Great representation using the Jenga model. We have the same problem here in Canada. Politicians slowly suffocating the system while blaming it for inadequate services, praising privatization. I’m not wholly against privatization because competition can be good but without proper and ethical oversight, any system will become inefficient, non-universal and based on socioeconomic status. In my opinion, a red flag for a failing health care system is one that necessitates the use of go-fund-me.

[@simonadams6640]

This use of "politicians" for the right really doesn't serve the public well.

[@mountkeen8701]

Got it in one! The NHS is something to be treasured and funded properly. It’s been gutted by mendacious and corrupt politicians in self serving governments. We deserve - and the NHS deserves - better

[@MatrizesElementares]

Long life to NHS. 🎉

[@skengdo2458]

It's already dead

[@angelmujahid2233]

“Privatization isn’t necessarily bad.” Is easy to say but every time a major public service is privatized it doesn’t end well. I’m not sure I know of an example of the successful privatization of a public or governmental service.

[@olivergille8305]

The logic behind privitisation is that it makes institutions more efficient because privately run companies have to compete against one another for survival/ profits. British Airways was privatised relatively successfully because it had to compete with other airlines to provide a worthwhile service. But in natural monopolies like healthcare and rail there can be no competition so all they do is cut costs to improve their profit margin and you end up with a declining quality of service. Privitising these services is absolutely moronic as it goes against the very logic of why privitisation may be advantageous, ie market competition.

[@angelmujahid2233]

@@olivergille8305 Yea I understand that is the thought process behind it. However a standard corporation or company shouldn’t be in governmental hands just like a public service shouldn’t be in private hands. That’s where the failure begins. There is no such thing as a natural monopoly. The entire aspect ofof monopolies stems from the corporate mandate of infinite growth. British airways is a great example actually. It’s over a hundred years old, fifty I think since its name was changed to British airways. For a moment it was trending rather well, public perception is at an all time high. Which we see in most entities that privatize. Then slowly downward trends begin, which is happening to British airways currently. In 2011 when it created the International Airways or airlines group, I can’t remember which and don’t feel like googling it. The companies trends begun to shift. stock and public opinion is now at its lowest. Cost cutting measures aren’t being implemented and its profits are being used to further monopolize and cannibalise smaller companies and the industry. I’m sure it’s only going to get worse from there. It’s the same old story time and time again.

[@verenmercer8586]

This presentation was ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT! 👏 Unfortunately, politicians nowadays prefer to break things down, rather than build them up. People also share the blame for voting such people in positions of power.

[@naratipmath]

I moved from USA to UK about 10 years ago (now a British citizen) and the availability of NHS played a big part to that decision. If NHS collapses, it would be a time for my whole family to leave UK. I don't blame NHS nurses to ask for a better pay. They totally deserver it. My wife was fantastically cared by a young maternity nurse for the delivery of our first child. The nurse assisted her till the end of her shift at around 3-4 am. I went down to grab a coffee in M&S shop in the hospital at around 8-9 am and I could not believe my eyes. That same nurse had to work the early shift in the M&S too. The capitalism bites very hard where I live; so, I am sure that she had to do that to pay the bills.

[@bobbydennis8333]

“Been that way for 30 years…” - on life & healthcare in Oklahoma County Jail, 2021 “No one truly knows a nation until one has been inside its jails. A nation should not be judged by how it treats its highest citizens, but its lowest ones.” - Nelson Mandela Good topics 🥂🥂

[@Shadowtiger2564]

Remember anyone who wants to privatize wants to extract as money out of what ever it is as possible and ruin it.

[@ea3414]

It is not just the appauling working conditions but also the lack of career progression. Go to any large hospital and you will find plenty of doctors who have completed 10 years of training after med school only to find there are no jobs for next step up (consultant or equivalent). This is not because we have enough but as always there is no funding. The tories have created an overworked, over qualified and under paid workforce.

[@celieboo]

I'm American. I have some of that "good, employer provided private insurance”. My premium is $380/pay check ($760 per month). My employer pays $760/check ($1520/month). That totals $27,360 per year. On top of that, my deductible is $4,000 for an individual, $6,000 for my family. This means that the insurance company won't pay a dime for services until I've paid at keast $4,000 or $6,000 for them first. The US system is a rip off. You can have "good" insurance and still go broke. Also, insurance doesnt cover everything. I suffered from secondary infertility. We spend about $45,000 on treatments, which failed. It was all out of pocket because insurance didnt cover it. Please Brits, foght for your system because the grass is dead on the other side.

[@Tom55data]

People in uk pay for bupa and that is the cost of private healthcare but they miss... 1) All training is paid buy the NHS , 2) all emergency cost is paid by the NHS and that is the really expensive part. The annual cost of private health in USA that does not cover everything cost 20,000 dollar / person per year. Then there is the belief that you use private to help the NHS, but it is the same staff, so if they work on you, they cannot work on free health care.

[@nathanngumi8467]

Very sad that private interests have undermined the NHS. Fortunately with courage and political good will the NHS can be salvaged and revamped.

[@jackdavinci]

I was on medicaid for awhile and I have to say I generally got much better treatment than when I had employer insurance. The only exception being dental care.

[@TheOGPeanutButterLover]

Take a look at Australia’s health system. Efficient public/private relationship that provides good care. As an example, for emergencies you will always be treated at a public hospital since they have the ambulances and paramedics. Then say if you need surgery, you can choose between a public and private hospital, with the public giving you no choice of surgeon or date for the surgery, with waiting lists common as well, while private often gives a choice of surgeon and date. People may choose to also have private health insurance so that if they do need surgery and want to have it in a private hospital, they can. There is also the possibility of seeing a doctor for free within our system, but often these doctors cannot give as good a care as a doctor who charges more than what the government subsidises, but often gives better care in the process, with these “free” doctors often rushing through patients in a few minutes. This is a more private approach than Britain, but more social than the United States, an approach that has often worked for Australia.

[@tempejkl]

Why would public doctors rush patients and private doctors not? The entire goal of private doctors is to make as much money as possible, so they would want to see as many patients as possible, while doing the least amount of work. This is inherent to capitalistic systems, and anyway, the NHS worked perfectly fine before Tory austerity.

[@simple11q]

Perhaps it is time to ... NOT keep calm and carry on. The situation is frankly the opposite of "A rising tide lifts all boats." Stay classy UK.

[@brycejohnson1590]

as an american sometimes i do feel annoyed by others who brag about that they have universal healthcare and it makes them better than us, it's like we dont like it either, we were born into it...

[@kamma44]

I'm British and never got an iota of help from the NHS?! Every local GP I went to always gave me the shaft or told me that I'd need to go see a specialist without even telling me how to go about doing it?! The local pharmacists gave me more help than the NHS ever did?!

[@rickelliott3683]

The British people should never allow their healthcare system to slide into the abysmal system that we Americans have here in the US. They should fight tooth and nail to preserve it.

[@Sjalabais]

What an *exceptionally* well done video. It's a most valid opinion and we see most of these tendencies in most developed healthcare systems all across the world - with differing responses, that is. We *must* not let universal rights deteriorate further. There is so much data on this being a terrible strategy, time to abandon this path and work on better solutions, smartly.

[@chevyfinn]

I had to self fund my son to be diagnosed and treated for a mental health condition because the waiting list on NHS was 3 years long. What is the point of universal free healthcare if you have to wait 3 years to be treated, which by that time it's too late and they don't care 😢

[@iRiShKnIcKs2011]

I'm soon to be an incoming doctor in the NHS next year (God-willing). A homegrown British medical student. I've never seen the number of final year medical students and current doctors who want to leave the NHS or quit medicine entirely. Most of my colleagues are planning to go abroad for better pay and training and others are actively seeking work outside of Medicine altogether. Subsequent governments have not shown a desire to keep their doctors happy and when we see our foreign colleagues (in the US/Can/Aus/Ire/NZ), who are just as educated and competent as us, get paid a lot more for the exact same job it only disheartens us and encourages us to seek better opportunities abroad. The UK is no longer a leader in medicine as it once was. It is now a stepping stone for many highly qualified homegrown Medics to go abroad or find another career, both of these options are enticing as they value our skills and education - unlike our employer in the UK (Govt/NHS).

[@AnthonyMcGowan]

Another massive error by NHS managers was the centralisation of services especialy A&E which has led to long waiting times in the few A&E departments remaining. Most of those waiting do not need Trauma care or even particularly advanced or urgent care. take the City of Glasgow which has gone from 8 small A&E depts in the 1990's now its reduced to 2 Trauma centre's. that would be fine if the dept's had enough staff and space but they have no where near the capacity to deal with the number of patients. Centre's of excelance is a great theory that doesnt work in the real world.

[@BHPhillips1]

We see this undermining of the public system all over the world, it is so sad. And it is definitely a project by people who think they could be making a profit out of it.

[@MinoricioSerafim]

Stop voting for conservatives? Hugs from Brazil and our SUS (Unified Health System)!

[@Swarming1020]

Current polls suggest the biggest electoral landslide in the history of British democracy, against the Tories and in favour of the Labour Party, the centre-left party which founded the NHS under Prime Minister Clement Attlee! I just hope the leadership of the party are up to the job

[@Ty-dk2sj]

We're definitely gonna vote them out next year, but sadly I don't have much faith in the opposition with Kier Starmer as leader either...

[@cherylcarlson3315]

As an american nurse who has worked in hospitals and been denied health insurance and now on medicaid disabled...There are wizards behind the curtain making 5 billion a year to "manage" Medicare and this must stop, they are now infiltrating NHS and it will not be good. Meanwhile , the moaning here about lack of nurses is the same song as the 80's. Nurses aren't in a religious order to work endlessly, selflessly in poverty while maintaining license and education fees out of pocket, expected to stand 8 hrs, lift 75 pounds with no consideration to family life or having a vacation. Anyone whose only skill is pencil pushing must go, in either system.

[@martinebon4333]

preach it dear! We nurses are also human beings

[@cherylcarlson3315]

@@martinebon4333 sending a nursely hug. Hard to get them to listen.

[@liamthompson9342]

Same thing's happening in Australia. Seems like every year they strip away more benefits. GP's all have to charge a gap now. My mum had to self-fund her hip replacement because it was urgent and they would have just waitlisted her forever. It's all take and no give.

[@user-eb4fq9jm5v]

Conservative politicians!

[@SWExplore]

Great video, so thanks for putting it together. David Cameron has largely been a complete failure when it comes to UK politics. Firstly, he initiated a referendum that has led the UK into leaving the EU with Brexit. The UK is suffering immeasurably as a result. Secondly, and as you stated in this video, he was instrumental in putting the brakes on the government's funding of the NHS. What a scoundrel is David Cameron. And now he has the absolute NERVE to show his face back in government.

[@kilimanjaro1893]

Uk politicians saw how big the US healthcare industry is and they want that to happen here, cuz they want the slice of that big money and they can't do that in NHS

[@daonap]

"Politicians", eh? What about neoliberalism?

[@taikofan]

What in god's name does that have to do with the NHS

[@daonap]

@@taikofan from which arm of the Milky Way have you just arrived, mate?

[@taikofan]

@@daonap Mate I think you’ll find I am from YORKSHIRE if you’ve heard of the place and I’m actually yet to hear a coherent answer to my QUESTION what do neoliberals have to do with conservative policy breaking down the NHS?

[@taikofan]

@@daonap I’m tired sorry I completely see your point. They’re ruining our country. Have a beautiful day God bless.

[@daonap]

@@taikofan what is the ideology driving these conservative policies?

[@schnitzelsemmel]

Brexit was supposed to fix the NHS, a bus told me so...

[@flyingface]

Makes me very sad :( You must have a strong, competent bureaucracy, which remains sufficiently independent of the whims of electoral politics

[@carlosgd8903]

No money for NHS but enough for Ukraine and Israel 🤯🤯🤯🤯

[@MrJames_1]

Yes the US system is a joke among developed nations, however, Britain still has the bones of a system. It just needs funding taken away from less critical spending. Australia seems to have a good model with a solid private system and even tax penalties for life if you don't have private health insurance by age 30. BUT, if you absolutely can't afford to go private in Australia because you're down on your luck, the Nation absolutely, positively still has your back and will care for you free of charge. Yes, there are queues, but it's a damned site better than hopelessness for some citizens. Looking at you USA.

[@uisblackcat]

The experience in the United States depends much on what state you are in. My home state of Illinois provides care to anyone earning less than 133 percent of the poverty income level, around $20,000 annually for a single person, for FREE. For those earning more than that, private insurance is available on a sliding scale. If someone falls through either of those cracks, which is rare, hospitals are required to provide care regardless of ability to pay and anyone earning under 400 percent of the poverty guidelines, or $80,000 for a single person, we receive a discount on their bill, ranging from a 100 percent discount to a 25 percent discount, with the hospital being capped at 20 percent of someone's annual income (over $80,000 per year). It's an imperfect system, but the trope that Americans are just dying in the streets without care is a ridiculous one.

[@MrJames_1]

@@uisblackcat Did not know that, I think that's awesome. A great plan to be replicated. One of my kids lives and works in San Francisco and unfortunately has seen some pretty grim things in the streets. In Australia, the Govt has just opened up 'Urgent Care Clinics' which are bulk billed (no fee) to take some of the weight off ER's.

[@darreldennis7115]

I am a medical student and I have family who work as doctors and medical admins in the US. As said above the US healthcare system is not that bad as what people make it sound. I would prefer our system over the Canadian system. We have tons of Canadians patient coming to our hospitals every year because they are sick of waiting 10-12 months to get a procedure or surgery done. If you are poor in the US, often time the hospital send the bill to the govt and they take care of it. Sometimes the hospital bear the cost or use the charity funding to cover the cost. So many people take advantage of the system. Some homeless people just come and go to the ER just to get free food and bed for a night. Its a law in the US to never turn away a patient and they have to be stabilized before release even if they don't have health insurance.

[@MrJames_1]

@@darreldennis7115 all of that 'sounds' good but there are limits to funding (ask any business owner or family) so I'd say access to it (govt, charity, hospital) is not a given. I can't imagine living like that if my family or I were sick and/or had a chronic condition. I think a dual public/private system is the way to go. You want to jump the queue, you pay for it. Can't afford to, you're still ok. I've been treated for cancer here in Australia (found out the same month I lost my job) and it didn't cost me a cent, didn't lose my house, didn't worry. EDIT: don't get me wrong, I love visiting the US. The people are friendly, great scenery and lots of things to see and do I can't do in Oz.

[@philreilly6959]

A great video. I was born just 3 years after the NHS came into being and it has served me magnificently ever since. The staff are super professional and caring. They are beyond breaking point and yet, because they care, they keep going. I can only hope that the next General Election will bring a new regime which, as you say, has the guts to put money back into the best institution ever brought into being in the UK, perhaps in the world. But mostly, we owe to those who care for us so well. Fingers crossed that the money appears in time!!!

[@OnlineMD]

Going back FIFTY YEARS, I was a Senior House Officer in the NHS (National Health Service). My wife and I were given a one-bedroom mini apartment in a hospital campus. My salary was a generous 90 Pounds a month. We lived mostly on bread and cheese and vegetables like brussels sprouts. I can't believe now how I ate those tasteless fish and chips! :) Two years later when we emigrated to the USA, we had our clothes and $200 with us. We had a VW Beetle which my uncle gave me and we sold for two hundred pounds before we left. That's all we had to show for our two years in the UK aside of course my experience and training. I had to do a full 3-year medical residency in the USA all over again. Looking back, the standard of care in the UK was more advanced than what I saw in the USA. But the NHS was overloaded even then, and none of the hospitals where I worked had a decent medical library. I recall a woman coming into a hospital and hijacking a hospital bed saying "I've waited six months for my hernia surgery; that is long enough! I'm not leaving this hospital till you do my surgery!" She was of course given her surgery. Opening up NHS hospital floors for private beds covered by cash or insurance is a cruel betrayal of the country's health care system. If people create their own private hospitals, that is their doing but keep the NHS 100% NHS. And oh, I can't help but think: most of the money, trillions of pounds worth that was stolen from the colonies, particularly India, seems to have gone underground. So the UK is struggling to stay alive.

[@lilspeth]

As an American unless one is way below the poverty line one simply ends up paying 40% of weekly pay for insurance that doesn't cover most basic needs. So, have a baby and get a 7,000 $ bill. No dental. No drugs. And many plans do not cover anesthesia which runs in the thousands. Doctors have 15 min max to see you and refer one to a specialist who refers to a second opinion. Preventative care is almost non-existent. So the only health care talk we find is about money. The rest one must do for itself. On the bright side one must become one's own GP and do the research ...then seek a specialist.

[@grimaffiliations3671]

They knew they couldn't turn people against the NHS overnight so they spent decades slowly sapping it of it's recourses. The goal is to get it to the point where the public would opt for privatization almost as a coup de grace

[@jmhorange]

It's interesting that planning 15 years in advance is considered being incompetent. That's one year short of 4 Presidential elections. I mean that means a US president in office for 2 terms wouldn't be able handle that on their own. I mean, not saying the UK hasn't screwed up but like seems a bit wrong to call that short term thinking and incompetence.

[@nonewherelistens1906]

The absolute last thing you want to do is privatize your healthcare. Here in the US, healthcare is an absolute mess. Don't do it Britain. It is a scam.

[@juliegale3863]

After living a lifetime on NHS, I was 13 when it started, I remember my father grudgingly taking me to the GP as he could not afford 2 shillings and 6 pence. Now 89 this month I am terrified of being ill. Last month I did fall ill and was pleased to say a 111 call got me an ambulance in the night, took me straight to hospital, by-passed the emergency ward and put me in a comfortable bed. I received treatment for a bad infection and was home next evening. So I really can’t complain but I hear terrible tales from friends.

[@johnchessant3012]

As an American, I can safely say that no other developed country should be looking to us for an example of healthcare done right.

[@DerVersteherPlus]

All healthcare systems in Europe have the same problems: people are getting older and medical treatment becomes more and more expensive. In Germany the policy in the last 30 years was a mix of cutting back on benefits and increasing the contributions of the members of the health insurance. From my point of view the performance is still quite good but lacks digitalization.

[@TiredSocialist]

I would add that the two insurance types (private and state) and maybe even the option for different insurer are also a problem. All the state insurer are basically the same (why do we have the administration overhead for multiple then?) and the private are making a profit off of our health (which I think is wrong).

[@yepitisnathan]

Privatization IS bad. It's a private tyranny. Just because you have money does not mean you deserve healthcare more than another. This is ludicrous. The principals the NHS was built on is ALL have a right to healthcare, by privatizing more parts of it, we end up competing against each other. This fosters greed & inequality. We should help people because they need help, not for any profit or personal gain.

[@mikelundun]

Whoops!!! Ohhhhh nooooo. Now well have to privatise it! What a shaaaame. Of course we never meant for this to happen. That said, the health insurance chaps from across the pond have made some great suggestions and I think we can put something in place pretty quickly. Also, I've.had it hinted to me that there could be some very lucrative board positions opening up in some companies, you know for further down the road. We always remember who our friends are ....

[@user-cv1jb9xv2p]

That is SO BAD ugh why don't we have good politicians who have Long term thinking and have the courage to stand against the greedy, evil corporation

[@VEVOJavier]

the politicians and the executives running those evil corporations are the same people...

[@Praisethesunson]

Cause bribes work now to pay for that boating trip in the Mediterranean.

[@spydula1]

The UK is rich. Pay your staff, and hire more of it. Universal Healthcare is necessary. Everyone who can strike (even outside the medical field) should do so until the government gives in on the demands.

[@DramaticMuchTerry]

Like most people in the UK, I too was born in a NHS hospital and I have a NHS doctor and dentist. I have had treatments, operations, scans, consultations, therapy... no matter the problem, everything is covered. It works, it has worked for 70 years and it has saved and treated every life in those 70 years. I can't imagine living in a country that models itself on the US. People crowd-funding to save their children's lives, not calling an ambulance because they can't afford the bill, dying of cancer at the first diagnosis because they can't afford the treatment and racking up so much debt, just from having scans. The goverment we have doesn't care about us or the NHS, they only care about themselves and getting rich. More so now than ever before. We cannot allow them to strip us of the NHS.

[@SidenoteChannel]

Uncomfortable answer: doctors and nurses of today are greedy and self-centred compared to those in 60s who considered it a noble job. No matter how much you pay them they’ll always more by keeping you hostage. The same happening in Canada, in some cases they even make it difficult for outsiders from different countries to practice so as to keep supply low.

[@agme8045]

Doctors and nurses in my country are paid terribly, even for local standards, and they keep working regardless. Maybe it’s a Canadian thing?

[@Lucas-vd2gx]

You should make a special about "Universal" Healthcare and "Universal Healthcare", countries like the UK and Canada like to brag about it being Universal, but it is "universal" it only applies to their citizens. Take a look at Brazil for instance, a British person without travel insurance can get service at a Public Hospital in Brazil WITHOUT paying a dime. That is actually UNIVERSAL.

[@maclain728]

Here in Canada we already face problems of wealthy foreigners buying up domestic real estate like it’s candy, unlike Brazil Canada is seen as one of the top destinations for international students and seasonal immigrants If we create a truly universal healthcare system, people from countries with worse care or expensive healthcare systems (like our southern neighbour) would be inclined to visit Canada simply to enjoy healthcare provided by Canadian taxpayers. The idea of (at the very least) thousands of Americans coming to Canada simply for literal free healthcare would be a massive problem, we as a nation have fewer people than California alone and could not handle the sudden influx

[@Lucas-vd2gx]

Although it is Universal in Brazil you do not see ads or even influencers talking about it. Most foreigners that use the system are the neighbouring countries and since the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Russians have been going to Brazil to give birth to babies, literally for free other than paying for the air flight ticket and food/acommodation... Most people even in the US would not have the money for an air ticket. And Healthcare in Brazil encompasses not only basic care but as well as dentistry, acunpucture, phisio and so on... Usually you have to pay out of pocket for all that in Canada. What bothers me is people using the word Universal when it clearly does not mean that, either in Canada, UK or whatever place. @@maclain728

[@agme8045]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@maclain728 Argentina is nowhere near Canada in that regard, yet our public hospitals are literally filled with foreigners. I hope the current government gets rid of that, they already did with public university (they will start charging foreign students a fee). Hopefully healthcare will follow

[@maclain728]

@@agme8045 A country needs to look after its own citizens first, doesn’t mean foreigners shouldn’t be taken care of but they should know the risks of expense when travelling abroad. I have some hope for Argentina now, hope it’s not too controversial to say Peronism has hampered the nation for decades. Milei may be a little bit on the crazy side in some aspects but he does seem to understand what Argentina needs to do to start fixing itself. More than anything I’d love to visit a stable, safe, wealthy Argentina in my lifetime. Always been a country with near unlimited potential and I’d love to see it thrive I hear you guys have meat so good the only seasoning required is salt, and as a huge steak guy you have no idea how much I’d love to do a trip down and try everything!

[@agme8045]

@@maclain728 oh you are absolutely correct. Peronism sucks. Btw, you should visit Argentina soon. It’s very affordable right now, I doubt it will stay like that for much longer, prices are already rising (they are actually pairing to real prices because everything used to be incredibly subsidized and regulated). Try ‘Don Julio’, it’s a steakhouse in Buenos Aires, best restaurant in Latin America according to some rankings. And the country is already safe. I mean, don’t go into the local version of the ‘bronx’ and you’ll be fine. Also, what else would you put on a stake? Aside from Salt and pepper, we don’t do that here as you mentioned.

[@thisismetoday]

2:23 Okay you spend less than other countries. Do you have any source that shows that the British system is actually more efficient? Because - coming from Germany - I don’t think that’s even remotely true. Most GPs in the UK are a hot mess.

[@java4653]

"More efficient". LOL This is not a one time use product where the only measure is the profit margins. The "efficiency" is how healthy your country is. The benefits are long term and show elsewhere. It's crazy you havent thought at all about the basic nature of reality here. You read way too many business fluff pieces

[@dutchbakery2195]

When labour left government in 2010 the UK had one of europes highest levels of prosperity, one of the lowest poverty levels and virtually the best healthcare system in europe, top 5 atleast. The conservatives saw that as an opportunity. An opportunity to hold a 15 year long disastrous experiment on how to wreck it all. And it looks like they've made it.

[@sumboi2321]

The government has absolutely no shame in what it's done to the NHS. There's no incentive for young people to work in healthcare and any issues highlighted during Brexit, Covid, etc. were already problems years before these events happened. Losing the NHS (a likely outcome) would be catastrophic

[@andivalachi8247]

I was reluctant to watch your clip and it proved I was right. Blaming it on politicians loses sight that it was made by politicians. If politicians are bad, in a democracy, it means people are chosing wrong. France also has universal health care and it beats NHS on every parameter. Your system, the same as Canadian health care, has absolutely no competition. In a place lacking competition, there is absolutely no incentive for offering better and cheaper services. Employees become complacent and they even yell about their right to loaf around, filling endless and quasiuseless forms, to frustrated people seeing their child not getting care or attention. French raise the money to the government but the distribution of funds is based on performance of the provider. You do not do well, you will go bankrupt or fare bad - no such possibility for an NHS hospital, is it? I lived 20 yrs in Communism and saw (good) people putting 5% of the efforts they could put because there is no point, there is no consequence, there is no difference between a hard-working person and a lazy one. It's based on seniority, isn't it? As if each of us would not know a stupid and/or lazy employee who was at it for 20 yrs in the same place. Create competition and NHS will heal itself.

[@celiacresswell6909]

Agreed - much of our routine eyecare was outsourced to the high street in the U.K. decades ago: no one objected and the service and pricing is excellent: arguably dentistry also.

[@larsfroelich]

brits really screwed themselves over these past 3 decades

[@Ty-dk2sj]

Nah, our biggest screw ups have been during the last 13 years of conservative rule...

[@kristannestone1748]

Ugh. Why do some people have that inner drive to crush a good thing?? Money, I suppose. The weak will is so destructive. There's a push from some politicians in Canada to do the same thing.

[@rosspalin3942]

It’s a bit of an over-simplification. Doctors are lost more to abroad than private healthcare. The NHS was not set up to deal with a population that is getting older on average and living longer. Just pumping money at the problem will not solve the issue. There needs to be reform to how the system is run and operates

[@justinstephenson9360]

An infantile video. The author clearly has swallowed completely the long running propaganda that the NHS is the best healthcare system in the world (in fact repeats that patently false assertion in the video) and the only alternative is an American style free for all. That propaganda never explains why, if the NHS is so wonderful, no other mature first world economy adopts the same system. The NHS was at its founding a compromise between cost, quality of care and universality or lack thereof (universality means it treats everyone based on medical need only). There is no reason to assume that the compromise of 1948 is still valid today when the UK is very different (for example many more older people, the ability to treat in a very expensive way, conditions that would previously killed people). As for the NHS budget and how it always rose at least until 2010. The NHS budget for most of its entire existence rose faster than overall public spending so it was taking an ever larger slice of total govt spending. Between 1950 and 2022 NHS spending rose from 3.5% of GDP to 11.3%. During the same period total govt spending has been far more stable ranging from c. 41% GDP in 1950 to 44.5% in 2022 (although there was a c. 20 year period from mid 1980s to mid 2000 when it dipped down to 35-40% GDP). So over that period NHS spending has gone from 8.5% of total government spending to almost 25% of government spending and the supporters of the NHS want even more money spent on it. There is no evidence that the UK government can extract more tax revenues from the UK economy than it currently does, so what other public services should be cut to pay for the NHS? This entire video is an example of why having a proper debate about the future of the NHS and how it should be funded, what it should treat (or not) is close to impossible in the UK. Any attempt to raise the issue is immediately shouted down as "you want to privatise the NHS", "you want an American style system", "our NHS is the best in the world", "all its needs is more money.." etc

[@celiacresswell6909]

Agreed on all points

[@CesarAnton]

Short term thinking and incompetence is the norm amongst politicians. Countries should make health a right and separate it from politics by assigning a large budget and making it autonomous. Private hospitals provides a great alternative and competition.

[@mikolowiskamikolowiska4993]

Endure will this large budget come from? You'll steal them won't you?

[@CesarAnton]

@@mikolowiskamikolowiska4993 health and education should be a priority when allocating taxes. Currently most is wasted on the military.

[@BTrain-is8ch]

@@CesarAnton That's how the US ended up spending about half of its annual federal budget on Social Security and Medicare. Mandatory spending with automated increases or spending that's indexed to inflation is incredibly dangerous.

[@CesarAnton]

​@@BTrain-is8ch it's never been 50%, only the military is allowed to spend that much. It's 13% on 2022 for Medicare. And the reason it's so expensive is green on the insurance, pharma and health industries. Too much free healthcare is "incredibly dangerous"? Healthcare and education are by far the best way to spend taxes. Social Security has a dedicated tax and 74% is used to pay retirements from people who paid Social Security. It's a whole different thing and it's 21%. So even combining unrelated things that's 34% . Finally, health spending is measured by GDP which is only 3.9%. Extremely low for a developed country. Even Mexico spends over 5% and ideally it should be at least 9% to be comparable to Norway who spends 10.5% of GDP.

[@BTrain-is8ch]

@@CesarAnton Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid/ACA subsidies aka healthcare are the overwhelming majority of the US' mandatory spending. Those services account for 45% of the 2023 federal budget. Those services are the ones driving explosive growth in the federal budget. Discretionary spending has been somewhat restrained. The mandatory portion of the federal government's spending is the part that's going to drive the US off a financial cliff. SS already crossed this milestone and Medicare isn't far behind but it's soon to be the second trillion dollar line item in the federal budget. If you think the US can afford a new multi-trillion dollar line item you aren't paying attention.

[@TC8787-yq7og]

As someone born in the UK, I find it astonishing that anyone has to pay for healthcare.

[@bethdumont9020]

Health care worker numbers. We have the same problem here in Australia. Don't be so quick to blame doctor numbers in particular on the politicians. Here in Australia, medical student places get capped - by the AMA. The Australian Medical Association. Aka the doctors union. NOT BY THE GOVERNMENT. So when James Cook University in Townsville, Queensland (a regjonal university) wanted to open a medical school - they had to beg, borrow or steal places from capital city based sandstone universities, who really DIDN’T wanna give up places - prestige and all - rather than increase doctor numbers overall. They managed to get 60 places. I know all this because I lived in Townsville at the relevant time, studied at JCU and was active in the Student Union - so take this as gospel. Why did the AMA cap doctor numbers? Simple - they're a bloody union concerned with the wages & status of their member base. My guess is fundamentally you have the same number of doctors on per capita basis graduating now AND in the 1950's (UK, NHS) and 1970's (Australia, Medibank which became Medicare). It's a pattern found ALL over the world. That's the big difference between a trade union as we commonly understand them to be and "professional associations" like the AMA. Such bodies are just basically unions by another name to separate professionals from blue collar trades workers.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

The problem with healthcare as a human right is that the cost of healthcare is unbounded, but available resources are not. So we will have to often tell people they can't have a treatment that might help them because it is too expensive. We've been doing this forever, but a lot of people can't cope with this reality.

[@umaikakudo]

The even worse problem is granting the government a monopoly duty to provide healthcare as the politicians and bureaucrats see fit. Nothing in history has shown that the state should be trusted with unchecked power consolidation.

[@maclain728]

⁠@@umaikakudoAs much as a government monopoly sucks, profit from patients isn’t the priority in public healthcare systems, and it removes massive amounts of redundancy If you have a bunch of smaller companies doing the same thing, it costs more money for less availability and scalability is much more difficult. If you have just a few private companies managing the market, they’re more inclined to work together to increase profits while gutting their patients income. They’re incentivizing to charge as much as possible Public healthcare is like democracy in a way. To quote Winston Churchill himself “Democracy is the worst form of government-…except for all the others that have been tried”.

[@Soviet_Kitty]

bro that’s literally exactly how healthcare at a private level / not as a human right works. “Sorry, you can’t afford this treatment you need to live”

[@jrisner6535]

Suggesting it's been decades of underinvestment is nonsense, investment in the NHS soared under Labour & has been massively cut back by the Tories

[@ChartreuseDan]

If the NHS under Blair/Brown wasn't underfunded then why did the NHS have to pay for everything with PFI's? Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "they're both as bad as eachother" rems, but just because his opposition is the devil doesn't mean we can't acknowledge that Blair was a turd.