That is very surprising... great comparison and a good indicator to raise bed temps higher than we might think for the standard heater to obtain "real" temperature required!
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
either that, *OR* you never really required those higher temperatures in the first place, depends how your prints are coming out now I guess :D
@3dexperiments2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting results, I did not expect there to be that much difference.
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
Neither did we
@Mehecanogeesir2 жыл бұрын
It makes sense - the thermistor is deeper into the plate, so it measure the temperature closer to the surface. Thus, instead of heating the bottom of your bed to 100C and waiting/hoping for the best, this sensor lets you know when your entire plate is reaches 100C. Meaning the bottom of the bed must be greater than 100C at the time of meeting the desired bed temperature. I would be curious how far above 100C it goes (if it truly does, I'm just speculating), and how it would compare to a larger bed like a 350mm Voron. Thanks for the video about a new advancement!
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
We're looking forward to seeing larger heaters of this style too. Not sure how far (if at all) the heater overshoots the target temperature, maybe we'll check this out in a follow up video
@Mehecanogeesir2 жыл бұрын
@@MapleLeafMakers Thanks so much! I'm looking forward to more about this as well. I believe in Mainsail, it shows how much power the heater is applying to the bed as a percentage. If the firmware is only lowering the percentage after heating up vs gradually lowering the percentage as it nears the target temperature, I would think it'd overshoot. Which leads to my curiosity about larger and thicker beds for safety reasons. Best wishes!
@chadblows2 жыл бұрын
That's a crazy difference
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
It sure was. Thanks for watching!
@nhchiu Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great video and showing the results so clearly! Sorry I have two questions: 1. Is the printer enclosed during the 15min heat soak process? 2. Do you think it's the type of heater that make such huge difference or it's simply the position of the thermistors? Thank you!
@MapleLeafMakers Жыл бұрын
1. The printers weren't fully enclosed. panels were on, and doors were closed, but the tophats were off. 2. I think it's mostly the thermisor placement. We have a regular silicone heater with a similar screw-in thermistor in the LDO Trident 250 Kit and look forward to testing that theory.
@yusky032 жыл бұрын
If you heat it up too fast the bed will warp. That is why the 100w heater on a spec voron is limited to 60% duty cycle. "#max_power: 0.6 # Only needed for 100w pads" I am sure the situation would be worse with a thinner than spec bed. On the v2 it states... "## Adjust Max Power so your heater doesn't warp your bed. Rule of thumb is 0.4 watts / cm^2 ."
@mashiori9020 Жыл бұрын
I'm still running the 150w 220v heater on my 6mm bed from the 0.0 to 0.1 upgrade and bed is doing just fine, hopefully it goes to 0.2 without much issue
@thePavuk Жыл бұрын
I would believe that it's for normal sized beds, not these small. 120mm of 8mm aluminum wouldn't bend so much.
@Invaderjason1232 жыл бұрын
Would be interested to see this for a 2.4 as the 10 minutes or so wait for bed to reach 110 can be a bit annoying sometimes.
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
A very quick and non-scientific test says the 300mm bed fares a little better, but still close to 10 degrees below the target.
@marcosramirez3852 жыл бұрын
I have a keenovo 100w heater with a ssr on my v0 with a mandela buildplate that someone sujested I lower to 60w in klipper.
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
it's a popular rule-of-thumb to keep the heater wattage at or below 0.4W / cm^2 to avoid potentially warping the bed. I have never seen bed thickness mentioned along with this number, and a thick bed should be more resistant to warping. We haven't noticed any effect after a dozen or so heating/cooling cycles, but of course your mileage may vary.
@nathanielhudson65742 жыл бұрын
@@MapleLeafMakers I'd really love to see somebody test the 0.4W / cm^2 theory. I've heard it said as fact many times, but haven't actually seen any actual data. What happens if you give a bed a full watt per cm^2 and cycle it over and over? Do we see warping?
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
Good idea!
@deathcube20062 жыл бұрын
I know it would be really expensive, but I would love to compare to nickel plated copper heatbed, much more thermal mass than aluminium
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
Oof that would be neat but very pricey indeed....
@Zettymaster Жыл бұрын
i mean, why the nickel plating? we ARE going to put a heater and magnet foil on it anyways, so everything that would matter just needs to be cleaned before assembly
@ZenExMachina-dl2zt Жыл бұрын
I have one in an LDO V0.2-S1 kit that I am building. How would I go about collecting data in a way similar to what you presented with your graphs?
@MapleLeafMakers Жыл бұрын
We just put a piece of non-reflective tape on the bed surface and hit it with an infrared thermometer -- Set the bed to 100C and start a timer.
@troyj3292 Жыл бұрын
The dilemma I see is managing printer profiles if one bed is actually 20C lower than another if you have multiple printers.
@MapleLeafMakers Жыл бұрын
Ya we deal with it constantly switching between various sizes / printer configurations. Profiles help.... mostly....
@Sttreg2 жыл бұрын
Wait, so you are telling me when the thermistor read 100 on a normal bed, it isn't even close to that on the surface? That's huge, and could explain a lot of adhesion issue. Heating the bed first and then the tool head isn't enough as you showed with your time measurement.
@MapleLeafMakers2 жыл бұрын
That's exactly what this test demonstrated! We were as surprised as you!
@Zettymaster Жыл бұрын
so what we learned is: 100W is more then 60W... shocker i know having the thermistor at the place that actually needs the heat makes it report the correct temp. again shocker. in all seriousness though, i would love it if keenovo just had a hole in their heaters and we could thread a thermistor in the middle
@MapleLeafMakers Жыл бұрын
The good news is that the latest trident kit we got from LDO had the hole you are talking about! The bed is even tapped for one of these thermistor's. Hopefully more manufacturers embrace the idea!