Latin Exorcism in The Sandman (Netflix) | How is the Latin?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

If you like this sort of thing, check out one of my many other videos in this playlist where I discuss the pronunciation of Latin in film, video games, TV shows, and music: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKq5e3dui56rfbM

[@wfcoaker1398]

A word of warning: be careful watching the coronation of King Charles. At one point they pronounce "vivat" with the same vowels as in the English "buyback". They do it three times! It may be painful.

[@joelformica8344]

4:23 That explains how aniquilar in Spanish comes from anihilare. I was so confused when I looked up the etymology once

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Very good observation!

[@luizalmeida5398]

Probably this comes from romanized germanic tribes? Since the name Hludwig has become both Clovis and Louis. Idk, just a guess

[@pierrenilsson6189]

Spoiler: The guy throwing up is only reacting to the exorcist's latin pronunciation.

[@waynewestlake5924]

My wife & I just finished this season and really enjoyed it. How cool to stumble (I am subscribed to your channel) across your critique / analysis of this scene. The old Keanu Reeves Constantine I recently watched (for the 1,000 time) was what kicked started my interest in trying to learn Latin again (since 1 year in high school a LONG time ago). Funny that in this section of the series, SHE is Constantine!

[@larsthorsen4660]

Gaiman is the sort of writer who would have put thought into stuff like pronunciation, and it does make sense for Johanna Constantine to not use proper Ecclesiastic Latin (even if she's wearing a priest's shirt at the time), since she's mostly self-taught and kind of blue-collar. Jenna Coleman certainly did a spectacular job as both Constantines.

[@0okamino]

The ol’ working class Laughing Magician.

[@smuecke]

The thing about _nihil_ being pronounced [nikil] in Ecclesiastical Latin I find really interesting. When I went to school I used to sing in the choir, and we often sang in Latin. There were certain words that were spelled with _ch_ instead of _h_ , like _michi_ - Being German, we used to pronounce this [miçi], but should it be [miki] then?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Yup! Exactly. Either is fine. I do that in my Hellfire video

[@stevenv6463]

In Spanish the equivalent of annihilate becomes aniquilar with a k sound because of that.

[@jesusacuna309]

@@stevenv6463 but if you look at Spanish manuscripts, nihil is spelled "nicil" or "niçil," which indicates a /θ~s/ sound. I do not know when the shift to /k/ may have happened in the Spanish tradition.

[@hackerminecrafitiano]

Maybe the /k/ pronunciation was already standard in Vulgar Latin and, later, in Ecclesiastical Latin, and it underwent regular palatalization of /k/ to /ts/, and that's why old manuscripts kept that regional pronunciation of Classical Latin in spelling. Also, the word "aniquilar" is exactly the same in Portuguese, which indicates some Iberian trend or borrowing, probably after the 12th century. The reason why no other romance language does that outside the Iberian Peninsula? It could be the fact that it was the most catholic place in Europe, and considering this word, "aniquilar", is a learned borrowing, the Church spread it among the literate. These are only hypothesis, however.

[@stevenv6463]

@@hackerminecrafitiano Yes, if I remember correctly it was a learned borrowing and corrected based on classical Latin.

[@jobda1211]

i almost forgot about Renzi speaking english, thank you for remindering it to me

[@jennyrohr4213]

Fascinating! I enjoy hearing your Latin pronunciation, since the language is a key part of our home school curriculum (rēgnō - ha ha!).

[@DiesIstNichtEinstein]

Of note: De Exorcismis is the one section of the Rituale Romanum that was traditionally never translated out of Latin into the vernacular, because of the Catholic position that only the clergy have the authority to conduct exorcisms (which meant that particular section of the book was Not Safe For Lay Usage). Madam Constantine is therefore overreaching herself, just like the Winchester brothers before her on the early seasons of Supernatural.

[@puisquilfautunnom7030]

Ok. But after they went to hell and back, I say they earned the right to practice exorcisms despite their thick accent. 😉

[@PhilologieRomane]

Thanks!

[@hezzyjimbo4188]

久しぶり、ルーく先生！僕の名前はジャックです。気づかれるか、かもしれないんですけど数年前にルーくさんのことで日本語とドイツ語を習いました。最近は、「ルーくさんはどうかなー」って思って、そしてこのチャンネルの名前を覚えちゃってググったんです。凄く有名なんですよね、本当にすごい！お元気で本当によかった。遠くから応援してます！

[@chet_awesomelad]

I don't think it was done intentionally, but her mistakes with the Latin pronunciation make sense for the character - she's very cavalier, so it's understandable that she doesn't really care about the correct pronunciation.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Indeed, I often think there is room for such interpretations

[@AnthonyGrain--]

When you imitate the french accent in latin, it's so well done that it reminds me of my latin teacher

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Haha really? Thanks

[@einezcrespo2107]

@@polyMATHY_LukeOddly enough Jenna Coleman was learning French for her part in The Serpent when she booked the part of Johanna Constantine. She was learning two languages.

[@ronweasley9819]

A bit on Ukrainian. Ukrainian does have geminated "s", but only as allophonic pronunciation of /s/ phoneme, but not as a separate phonemic pronunciation. And so it is difficult for Ukrainians to pronounce it outside of the normal phonetic context where it appears naturally. But yeah, you are completely right about that. Words that have geminated "s" almost all exclusively have it due to the Proto-Slavic suffix *-ьje, such as "волосся/volossja" (hair), "полісся/polissja" (area beyond forest), "піднісся/pidnissja" (philtrum; the area bellow nose), etc. All of these words also have stress on the vowel before geminated "s". Great video as always, Luke. Thanks!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Good point!

[@Veggiuto]

In the new movie "3000 Years of Longing", there is a short dialogue in koine Greek. (When the djinn first emerges from the bottle, he has not yet learnt English, and the only language in which he and the other main character can communicate is koine Greek.) I only saw the movie once, and I wasn't able to take in the whole dialogue - but I think it was koine rather than classical Greek. I'd be interested in seeing a transcription of the Greek dialogue and an analysis of the actors' pronunciation. (Of course, in the movie, neither character is a native speaker of Greek, and so we probably shouldn't expect them to use perfect Lucian pronunciation!)

[@MarkRosa]

The Japanese conversion of Latin -um sounds into アム ("-amu"), as they seem to be doing in this video, drives me crazy. All the chemical elements ending in -um were transcribed with ウム ("-umu") but many recent borrowings (such as "millennium", and even more recently "Ethereum") have the -a- vowel. There are so many sound combinations that Japanese can't handle, but this is one that it *can*, and yet they change the vowel needlessly. I suspect they are hearing short U or schwa from English speakers and have decided that that sound is always "a".

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Exactly

[@bedohy]

Not only that, but chemical terms in Japanese first came from German by the late 19th century. That's why it was transcribed as '-ウム', and that has been the convention for the element names.

[@CeceliPS3]

Supernatural had latin exorcism for 15 years, but I'm glad you finally decided to do this video with the Sandman at least lol

[@puisquilfautunnom7030]

Exorcizamus te, omnis immundus spiritus,... I will always trust Sam Winchester the most with exorcisms, despite his very strong american pronounciation. 😉

[@CeceliPS3]

@@puisquilfautunnom7030 Haha. Thanks for commenting. I didn't even remember I made this comment. The guy from this channel didn't give a f' about my comment while replying to everyone else. P.S.: I'll miss Dean and Sam.

Hi Luke, you should review Heilung's "Urbani", an interpretation of a Roman legion marching song based on Suetonius' Vita Divi Iulii. The Latin sounds spot-on, but I'd like to hear your opinion. I think it's awe-inspiring to imagine a Legion marching to this song during a Triumph in Roma. Thanks!

[@Familylawgroup]

Netflix should have sponsored this video. I believe they did a great job ensuring many languages were presented in the performance, via dubbing.

[@Brandon55638]

I don't like to watch horror movies, so I'm glad you edited out most of the gruesome horror stuff. All the dubbers pretty much ignore the Sapphic rhythm of the phrases "Dā locum, dīrissime" and "Dā locum Chrīstō" (except the Italian one almost got that one right). Also, your Japanese and French accents for Latin are hilarious.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

It is Sapphic! Well said. Hahahaha thanks

[@re1v3r]

You are too cool for KZbin, Luke 🤗 Thank you for your time and knowledge!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Haha if only I were

[@km.scrivo]

You've inspired my fascination with the Latin language and its astounding that the language is making a near full comeback especially due to your near native fluency. Additionally, I am sure that the little mistakes with her Latin pronunciation is due to the creators of this series thinking that if it sounds decent enough, the audience (who isn't well knowledgable in Latin) wouldn't notice anyway 😅

[@hglundahl]

7:13 Noting it is part of compline - a prayer before you go to bed. Probably included bc it ends in a prayer to keep demons away, or technically _repel_ demons away

[@mesquijoanpius5644]

As a catalan speaker, it is very hard for me to grasp the /ɲ/ sound in the ecclesiastical/italian-like "regnum", for we use to say "regne" (with /gn/). Cool video! Gratias plurimas!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Gràcies!

[@hoponpop3330]

I moved to a Spanish Speaking area of the US . I’m an Italian American The laughed at me when pronounced cinco chinko ci has a ch sound in Latin and Italian

[@0okamino]

Great analysis! It would have been cool if they had contacted you to ask for a little coaching for Jenna Coleman. Then again, it’s very much in character for Constantine to flub some things badly (for instance, the Newcastle Incident, a version of which is shown in that episode), but also not uncharacteristic to flub things and still come out on top. The Laughing Magician just has a way with that stuff.

[@mfaizsyahmi]

The thing with regnum being incorrect across all versions must have something to do with someone in production/post-production insisting on the incorrect not-ecclesiastical pronounciation. If they get an actual ecclesiastical latin coach, for example, it might had fared better. (I initially suggested an actual member of the church but I don't think they'd like the premise of the show)

[@meekmeads]

Luke is available :D

[@hoponpop3330]

Have you ever analyzed the Latin Dialogue between Doc Holliday and Ringo in the classic western Tombstone One of the greatest scenes in a Western ever .

[@fritzw.5057]

19:05 But you have to admit that the way she says regnum is classical german latin pronounciation

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I actually had a section about this that I cut for time. Later she uses /tsi/ for ci, showing that she’s just doing the traditional German pronunciation

[@ancientromewithamy]

I haven't watched this series but good to know this info! It is hard to get used to vowel length when you're used to languages that don't care about that kind of thing, and this is why I feel like a barbarian, haha! Thanks for reminding us of these things, though! I have started writing long marks when I write by hand because of your videos for this reason!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Wonderful!

[@FereydounRostam]

Your videos are always so brilliant!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks!

[@lucasflocco1422]

Hey you should check out this show, based on amazing writting by Neil Gaiman, it doesn't have much more Latin in it, but it presents us some ancient names and themes from Greek mithology, like the Fates, Morpheus, Calíope and Orpheus. Also in Episode 4 there is a battle in Hell against Lucifer using words, that would sound amazing in Latin!

[@StergiosMekras]

He's better off reading the original. The show took too many liberties.

[@vidarfe]

@@StergiosMekras It's one of the most faithful adaptations I've ever seen, I don't know what you're talking about.

[@Jack-rj4kd]

@@StergiosMekras the show is one of the most faithful adaptation of a written source I’ve ever seen, touch grass

[@DoctorXander]

@@StergiosMekras The dialogue is identical to the comics in a lot of cases lmao

[@erraticonteuse]

​​@@StergiosMekras Someone's salty they made Death and the Kinkades black. And Lucien(ne) a black woman.

[@hglundahl]

5:39 It so happens, gn as nhnh as per Italians is not the only option for ecclesiastic Latin. Both ng-sound + n, and pronouncing an h is perfectly fine in ecclesiastic Latin from a Germanic language vernacular culture. Pope St. Pius X tried to uniform the ecclesiastical pronunciation on Italian ground for all of the Latin rite, but even after him you find Germans saying "kvi: e:s in Tsö:li:s" instead of "kwi: e:s in Tshe:li:s"

[@hglundahl]

As we have pretty obvious women priests here, they are hardly the most obedient to Pope St. Pius X anyway.

[@hglundahl]

3:37 Have you heard of the pre-Erasmian English pronunciation? They really did say Sisar or even Sizar for Caesar. First syllable in dirissime like in English dire!

[@Brandon55638]

I've heard of it. It's absolutely hilarious.

[@Thelaretus]

As a Catholic, I'm actually more worried about why would a lady be wearing a clerical shirt instead of an alb for this.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Anglicans

[@richardgray5603]

It would be cool to get a Catholic exorcist’s feedback on this one. Are the prayers correct, is the form correct? Why are there so many people there participating, etc.

[@4124V4TA-SNPCA-x]

But they shouldn't be using Roman Catholic Rites then, should they?

[@blank_3768]

@@4124V4TA-SNPCA-xthe anglican church and the roman church are almost identical. The only difference really is who is in charge and how easy it is to divorce. I’m not sure if the Anglican church uses the more ‘esoteric’ codexes of the roman church tho.

I can imagine some demons getting away with murder because the exorcist can't get his/her Latin right... 😆

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Heheh indeed

[@IONATVS]

There is actually a doctrine on misspoken ritual in the Catholic Church, usually in the context of Mass and the Eucharist, but applicable all Sacraments and Sacramentals (an Exorcism being the latter): “The Church Supplies”. Where the priest or deacon or exorcist fails, the Church supplies. Every sacrament and sacramental doesn’t merely involve the members of the Church Militant on Earth, but also the Invisible Hand of the Church Triumphant in Heaven, with Christ, as High Priest, speaking the rites alongside the pastor and congregation and correcting their mistakes. The Weight of all the times the words are said correctly, throughout the world, daily, in heaven and on earth, fill in for any mistakes made in the moment. Thus any unintentional mistakes in carrying out the sacrament are not sinful or otherwise damaging to the congregation. Demons are rules lawyers, God is not. He cares about what you meant and what you thought more than the literal words, and it is Christ who casts out demons, not the exorcist.

[@benibozic6468]

Apparently in Hungarians pronounce s as š (sh). This allegedly happened once to fr. Sabastian during an exorcism. „Exi male špirite!“ „„Non exabo.““ „Quare non exasti ?“ „„Quia male loquasti.““ „Sed in nomine Jesul“ „„A, hoc est aliud res! Nune bene loquasti, frater Sebasti!““.

[@IONATVS]

@@Jrelli Exorcist is a holy order that all priests are ordained as, but CAN be granted separately, and is at the same level in the hierarchy (lay religious) as monks, nuns, and consecrated hermits and consecrated virgins. Hasn’t been granted to someone who wasn’t in the process of becoming a deacon or priest in a LONG time, but there hasn’t really been a real discussion as to whether it would be legal to ordain a woman to the order of Exorcist. And specifically, exorcist is in the same set of minor orders as acolyte, lector, and porter, lector and porter, the other three of which were roles eventually opened up to lay ministers. It is an order all Deacons obtain as well, which is currently a male-only position, but there is actual historical evidence there were likely female deacons in the early Church (IIRC Pliny the Younger wrote to Caesar about his experience trying and sentencing a deaconess to death for the crime of Christianity), and so there is some movement to use that precedent to allow women to be ordained to the diaconate, including the minor orders like exorcist that ordination entails. So yeah, still a bigger issue in practice and I don’t know enough about the show to say if they justify ANY of it, but there’s a bit more wiggle room in theory for “Female Exorcist” than “Female Presbyter”.

[@IONATVS]

@@Jrelli The Apostolic succession is the Cornerstone upon which all Holy Orders and nearly all sacraments (Baptism being the main exception-in an emergency any baptized Christian can legally Baptize someone, as long as it’s Trinitarian, involves contact with water, and the subject has not previously been legally baptized) are based, and as such, the Bishop is ALWAYS by definition the CHIEF exorcist of his diocese, but certain duties of the Bishop can be DELEGATED with the commission OF the Bishop. Most importantly the task of celebrating the mass, delegated to the Presbyterate (“Priests” or “Fathers”), but also several minor orders. And traditionally (the process was restructured in modern times) these minor orders would be conferred on prospective priests one at a time as they prepared for their main ordination-first Porter (doorman/usher/guard), then Lector (reader of the scriptures), then Exorcist, then Acolyte (ritual assistant in mass), then Deacon (the first time they become a full member of the clergy), and then finally Presbyter. While he would not be so for long, a prospective priest would thus spend a transitional period as a “subdeacon” where he had one or more of these orders conferred but still be technically a lay brother. This is not the common way it is done any more, with the orders being conferred at the same time as transitional diaconate, but the fact this was the way it was done for at least centuries if not a millennium IS a precedent that if a bishop found it necessary, they could start a program to train and ordain lay exorcists as they currently do extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion or lay lectors. They just don’t have enough need for them to do so in real life in the modern day.

[@suem6004]

Great. Getting ready to study ecclesiastical Latin this semester. Now I will be sure to pronounce any exorcism ritual correctly. Haha.

[@craighughes536]

The actress playing the exorcist was the assistant to Dr Who a while back

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Cool!

[@Great_Olaf5]

Yeah, I noticed that. Jenna Coleman. Now I need to watch this.

[@fabianofonda6758]

Clara!

[@scarlocnebelwandler1253]

Given that the character is an English speaker, I think it actually makes sense for her to speak Latin with an English accent. That only raises the question how well pronounced an exorcism would have to be in order to work. As long as the demon recognises the language to be Latin it gets sent back to hell?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Right, my analysis is not an attempt to question the realism of the situation, but to indicate where her pronunciation deviates from certain ideal forms

[@janmayenese]

Maybe the real exorcism was the cringe the demon experienced all along

[@bernardlinde]

When this scene came up in the series I actually thought OMG what is Luke going to say!? 😱 Now we know! 🤣

[@davidmarinho6778]

Salvē, Lucī! If you have the time it would be interesting if you could make a Latin analysis of a few scenes of the 1998 movie "The 13th Warrior. Valē, amīce!

[@sigilmedia]

The fact is, phonemic vowel length has never actually been used with Ecclesial Latin because traditionally nobody knew about it. So it wouldn't be authentic for the actor to use it unless she was a Latin scholar.

[@astrol4b]

Petition to make a movie with Luke interpreting an exorcist

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I'll do it. Let me know.

[@Tommy53inTooookyoooo]

Hello from Japan! I like your channel! Japanese usually use a KATAKANA character for not Japanese word. I thoght the person who wrote a Japanese ver script changed Latin sentence to KATAKANA sentence. And I guess, The voice actors pronunce a Latin sentence to KATAKANA pronuncation. KATAKANA pronuncation is sometimes little bit sounds like strange.haha! You should give some advice toThe Sandman creaters !!!

[@albertoguerra6051]

There's always the problem of how to pronounce the ラ sounds, isn't it?

[@Familylawgroup]

I always thought dubbing wasn’t done if the character is speaking a foreign language. I thought they would use the original actor’s speech because it would be in sync with mouth movements. I was fascinated learning about the difference in dubbing across languages. Thanks for this.

[@belle_pomme]

But that would be really weird because the actor's voice is different

[@Brandon55638]

12:05 I actually heard "quæsumus", not "quasumus". Ths accentuation is still wrong, though.

[@Riot076]

I wonder how it would sound with Polish dubbing,as romance languages (aside from French and maybe Romanian) are very intuitive for us when it comes to pronunciation,since for the most part they are being pronounced the way they are written and also our vowel as well as consonant qualities are very very close. For example we use the "regular" L sound instead of this darker eastern-slavic one and we also don't have the tendency to strongly palatalise sounds,when it's not needed like in the Ukrainian pronunciation of "et vāsa" which sounded like "єт вася". Which is interesting,'cause you could make it sound much more accurately,using the Ukrainian sound repertoire and pronouncing it like "ет васа" (still not perfect,'cause the "в" has a slightly different quality than "v",but it's really close),but they did it the other way around,probably because of the fact,that phonetically it made more sense for them within the rules of how their own language works

[@Kamarovsky_KCM]

Sadly we'll never find out because Polish people still fear dubbing for some reason, and still rely on that annoying single monotone voice for everything

[@Riot076]

@@Kamarovsky_KCM That'd be the older generation,you're talking about. Most Polish people hate both - dubbing and lector - altogether. Subtitles are far more preferable

[@Kamarovsky_KCM]

@@Riot076 Oh I've seen plenty of young Polish people still preferring lector for some reason, but I do hope that that trend is on the decline. Especially since I'm an amateur voice actor, so I would definitely like for that profession to be less disregarded in the future hah

[@zaqwsx23]

Is this movie in Latin made in Poland? kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIO3mWanpr9_obM

[@richardgray5603]

Polish is my second language. I love the lektor! I generally dislike dubbing because it’s incredibly unnatural (on purpose, US English is the absolute worst) so I will go for the subtitles almost always with the native voices. But the lektor is far less distracting because it’s monotone and overlaid on the natural voice rather than replacing it. Long live the lektor!

[@marika147]

Hmm I wonder how Polish dubbing worked-we do have the double s sound and we're good at pronouncing all of the letters as written. No regard for vovel length though unless you're language savvy/script is annotated well. Ssać, ssak, bessa, hossa, lasso etc are some of the 2S words that need to be pronounced as double, otherwise stress doesn't work.

[@modmaker7617]

Dubbing in Poland is rare for an 18+ series. I kinda wish they dubbed it and not given it a lektor.

[@maricallo6143]

@@modmaker7617 Last I remember, the Polish used to dub (or better said: read out) over original dialogue, so they could skip dubbing the original Latin. Wander if it's still the case.

[@modmaker7617]

@@maricallo6143 Dubbing is when you replace the dialogue from the original language audio with lipsynced dialogue from voice-actors as a form of translation. Lektor (called "voice-over" in English which is a dumb name) is when the original language audio dialogue stays and one male translator (sometimes but rarely a female) reads out the translation in the background off-screen. I personally dislike lektor and love dubbing. In Poland, dubbing is seen as for kids and lektor is seen as for adults but since 2012 with the first Avengers movie they started dubbing PG-13 Movies & TV shows. It is now normal that PG-13 films have a dubbing. There where 2 live-action R-Rated movies with Polish dubbing; Logan and Deadpool 2 but they're not the norm. The Sandman is rated 18 in the UK (I live in the UK) and indeed the series only has a lektor and not a dubbing. I watched the series with the Polish lektor because I was watching it with my dad and he needs a translation and they decided to not even have the voice-actor translator to even read the Latin. The Latin was left untranslated.

[@maricallo6143]

@@modmaker7617 Here in Croatia we only dub kids shows and animation as well, so it doesn't hurt if it sounds a bit over-the -top as it mostly does. But when we dubbed Don't look up, even hough it is a humoristic film, it turned out really bad. I hate dubbed features like that, our actors are not up to that. I have ever only watched movies in my country in their original audio, subtitled.

[@modmaker7617]

@@maricallo6143 I doubt Croatia would dub PG-13 (12-17 year olds) films like "Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness" and "Thor: Love and Thunder" like Poland does. Poland soon might accept R-Rated (18+) films soon. Logan & Deadpool 2 had great dubs. Also what you think of Serbian dubs? Croatian & Serbian are one language after all. Also Bosnian occasionally has a dub too. Montenegrin never gets a dub.

[@mbpoblet]

This show is an excellent adaptation of one of the best comic book series ever written. Can't recommend it enough.

[@SF_59]

I'm a Japanese native who loves languages thank you so much for these wonderful Latin clips and for pointing out the Japanese Dub version of Latin enunciation!

[@88joshnesius]

I very much enjoy your videos. I've always been fascinated by Latin. How did you learn?

[@LorenzoF06]

2:49 Some Italian speakers tend to do this in Italian to differentiate some minimum pairs, thus "Le elezioni" may be /leʔeletˈtsioni/ ("Leʔelezioni", it's not actually written this way), /leːletˈtsioni/ ("Le elezioni") or simply /leletˈtsioni/ ("L'elezioni", poetical) and the first pronunciation is to differentiate it from "Le lezioni" which is /leletˈtsioni/. I wouldn't be too surprised if anyone from a romance-speaking country did this too. Edit: I hadn't watched the whole video yet. Also, you spelled "impiisssime" with three "s"s 😅

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Three s’s! Excellent, then I made my point haha. And yes, the long vowel is what I most commonly hear there

[@empyrionin]

I confirm we sometimes do this in Romanian as well (glottal stop to mark separation between vowels in emphatic speech only). Which is weird since both Italian and Romanian lack this sound natively. I guess it's highly likely to be an English influence.

[@annafirnen4815]

I have a question, is it possible that "local" pronounciations of eclesiastical Latin do exist? Cause Latin had a lot of influence in Poland and it's still used in Catholic church to some degree here and I even took Latin at school for half a year and I swear I have never heard anyone here pronounce "nihil" as "nikil" even though exclesiastical Latin is what's used. I definitely have heard "qui" or "quo" said as "qvi" and "qvo" (especially in "qui pro quo") which is the German influence I suppose. Also I am not sure whether I heard "regnum" being read as it should be according to you, I think I rather heard it the way they say it in the show. So now I don't know if I just heard people saying it wrong all the time or there is something to theory?

[@IONATVS]

They absolutely did! The standardization of the Ecclesiastical dialect was created specifically because the different regional dialects had drifted to the point it was difficult for different clerical colleges from different countries to understand what the others were saying. The Medieval German dialect is probably the best preserved from before the standardization, because it was still taught in Schools for a long time (and thus is called “schoolbook” Latin in German-speaking areas), but you can frequently see characteristics of these different national dialects in how European languages pronounce late medieval or renaissance era loanwords and loanphrases from Latin into the vernacular.

[@altralinguamusica]

I think what threw you off in the English actress' "dīrissime" (forgive me if I've spelt that wrong) is how she pronounced that first i as "eye". Anyway, love these videos! Whenever there was a scene on TV / in a film that used Latin or any other language for that matter, I'd always wish I could speak them as a kid. I used to play them back over and over again to get all the words because they usually wouldn't be subtitled apart from [speaks Latin], etc. Now there are people like you who know it well enough to pick it apart. Keep it up and looking forward to the next one!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks!

[@rhydianmann267]

I've been binge watching this series. Despite not having a great deal of Latin experience, even I reacted to the "regnum" pronunciation being off.

[@mfww814]

If you delight in the different "national" pronouncations of Latin, you will like the "sketch en Latin" from the former archbishop of Brussels in which he imitates professors in Rome from the old times when they still gave the theology courses in Latin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipvLYX-qirVjqJY

[@maniniescobar244]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@craighughes536]

Ooow I've missed your critiques of TV shows that have Latin in them...

[@hoangkimviet8545]

Honestly, I cannot stop laughing when I listen to the Japanese dubbing!

[@AlwaysMadOrSad]

How were you able to get the dubs?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Like this kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWSbpoqupdGafZY

[@mekkio77]

It would be interesting to see how well Legends of Tomorrow's version of Constantine pronounces Latin in your opinion.

[@emilsmikulis]

Thanks for this video🙏

[@theamericancristero7390]

I find that with stress accent rules only, as is often taught in ecclesiastical, it is very easy to do a 1.5x length vowel while stressing. Without teaching both phonemic vowel length and stress, and thus the four vowel options of stressed short, stressed long, unstressed short, and unstressed long, ecclesiastical can take on a fundamentally different cadence. As for this video, I thank you for editing out much of it, but through no fault of your own, as much as I'd love to share it with my fellow Catholics, the show itself is just too irreverent.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

No problem; share with whomever you like. I have a number of other videos on Ecclesiastical pronunciation that you can find

[@theamericancristero7390]

@@polyMATHY_Luke your videos are actually my go to resource to send to my Catholic friends, as many resources in English insist on not actually using anything close to Italian phonology. I actually found your channels after decided to learn the language after attending Latin mass with the FSSP.

[@VincentiusValentinus]

I am confused with the accent rule that what I learned is that the accent falls on the third last syllable if the second last is short. So, in word "impiissime", I think that the third last syllable is "i" before "s", so it is pronounced like "impi'issime"(like some dubs in the video do). Or there's another rule that two ii has to be regarded as one "syllable"?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I made a couple videos about that kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5SuaGZrr8igl8k

[@VincentiusValentinus]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Thanks! I must have missed it.

[@paulstewart1557]

I did like this show - especially as it came out around the same time as Rings of Power (at $1.25 B) but as it only cost $100 million, I think it was a better production - better acting, better script (since the source material was a comic book), better plot, better direction and production. And I love your enthusiasm for the different versions - what a novel approach to take!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Many thanks!

[@barrigudo00]

Fascinante explicação.

[@bacicinvatteneaca]

In Italian schools they use the ecclesiastical pronunciation EXCEPT for "nikil" and "miki", meaning that a lot of children from religious families grow up thinking that they specifically learned the original, non-ecclesiastic pronunciation, since they get explicitly told "it's not like you hear in the church choir" Btw, some people born before the late 70s in Italy still pronounce "Yamaka" and spell "uhulele" either due to the influence of ecclesiastical Latin, or by the same phenomenon that gave rise to that pronunciation in ecclesiastical Latin

[@MislavM1]

Please analyze the song by the band Heilung - Urbani I find it amazingly well done

[@deiniou]

I know I am late to this video, and I am about to watch it, so I am skeaping without kowing, but I am still baffled as to why shows dont just reach out to you directly, as you could in a couple of days correct all, or translate to latin, to your standars (we know is high), and also probably provide audio material for the actors to listen and practise or something. BTW I have not watched it yet, but a new filmd has been made in my country and as far as I know it is set in roman times although I dont know if there is any lating spoken there is mostly Basque, but maybe you should regarldss check it out, it is called IRATI.

[@erhert]

Sir you think that you have a natural skill for languages or have skill and hard work. How do you know so much about them [languages] ?

[@primosoma]

But are you back in America or is it an old video?

[@wordart_guian]

I think prpnouncing /nikil/ might be based on tuscan pronunciation where nikil would be pronounced as nihil anyways. In fact i have reasons to think (especially because of words like bacio, fagioli, cacio) that the gorgia toscana has been there since the beginning of standard italian, and at least since dante's time.

[@vicentesaiz1670]

Native spanish speaker here (chilean). With the regnum thingy I just realized I've been saying the Lord's Prayer in latin wrong.

[@Ennocb]

I like how you say [ʍʊdⁿtʰ] at around 18:38.

[@htrland]

would be great if you can appraise the Latin in The Conjuring series

[@julianstanev3772]

What about the Latin in Supernatural?

[@benisbepis2560]

I would like you to analyze the opening theme from super smash bros brawl as it is in Latin too!

[@RHS_video_club]

I'd love to hear you analyze Google Translate's Latin voice! It sounds like they just transplanted the Italian voice with its pronunciation. Is it a useful resource or something to be avoided?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

lol yup that’s all it is. Not very useful, though the sound of the Italian voice, even fake, is somewhat pleasant.

[@patrickohooliganpl]

Please do _Ninth_ _Gate_ by Roman Polański!

[@sebbvell3426]

You should watch chilling adventures of Sabrina and deliver us from evil, those two Hollywood production have a lot of spoken Latin in it.

[@MichaelPhillipsatGreyOwlStudio]

I love Jenna Coleman. The thing about this cool scene is that I thought the pronunication was really good when I was watching it. Only now do I hear the mistakes. And that's kind of the point. A good actor is capable of selling it despite having slightly wonky pronunciation.

[@barbaraocwieja5021]

I was wondering how the Polish version sounds like, but unfortunately we Poles use only a voice-over in our versions :(

[@giahuyoduong4544]

Hope you will make a clip about the vampie dỉaies

[@CommissarMitch]

The Japanese accent here sounded very well done. You can clearly hear it is a person from Japan speaking a foreign language, while also fully understanding what they are saying. Plus considering Japan is basically on the other side of the globe compared to Italy... Well done.

[@CommissarMitch]

Same for Ukranian. Hell any language not directly tied to Latin gets big points from me.

[@PenitusVox]

I really enjoyed the breakdown of the different dubs, even if they all sounded... More or less the same to my untrained ear.

[@paolorossi9180]

Quando gli anglosassoni parlano in latino(come in questo video) non capisco nulla.Locum lo pronuncia locam se non erro

[@einezcrespo2107]

Entertaining video and informative. You seem to give up on the German dub. 😂

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Haha yeah this video was getting long

[@iberius9937]

The velar L was not impossible in Classical Latin. Just take Portuguese and Catalan, for example, and certain dialects of Italian, which all have it.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Salvē, amīce. These all developed well after the Classical Latin period, and are not a feature in development of Romance from Italy through Romania. We can therefore rule it out as a feature in Classical Latin and even most Late Latin.

[@svendd5799]

Yes gn is pronounced the ñ sound of niño but not in every word like gnome or gnou where you pronounce the two letters and besides that the prononciation of latin taught at school is basically the classical pronunciation without the double consonants and the vowel length

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmamkod7pJ2Zgs0

[@lorenzodevallier]

Quando ho sentito la doppiatrice italiana dire gn mi è venuto un colpo

[@Brandon55638]

Anche io. Sono rimasto sorpreso anche quando ha detto "disrūpit" e "quasūmus" invece di "dīripuit" e "quaesumus".

[@jack8841]

The main charaacter speaks ancient greek in the recent movie 3000 years of longing you should check it ouf i'd love to know how well it was done

[@markippo]

There are two things that were commonly dropped among the Indo-European languages - the long vowels and aspirated consonants (even if they are left in the orthography, they usually sound different). Yeah, I'm sure that on some high level, long vovels were pronounced, but in less formal conversation? I'd take a risk that even Romans from the classical period were omitting them. The most important thing in understanding isn't 100% proper pronunciation, but context. Many languages have words that have the same spelling, the same pronunciation, but completely different meaning. People use them all along, understanding each other. Aaand finały... In the natural conversion, people have tendency to streach or shorten words or sounds. Overall I think, that the phonemic vovel long is important, but... Definitely not crucial... (mayby in poetry, where rhythm is a thing)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

While I appreciate the time you took write about this, your concept here is incorrect. Not only does phonemic vowel length remain in several IE languages today, if it were something that necessarily wasn’t *really* part of how the ancient Romans communicated, then you could apply the same concept to their grammar: “they didn’t *really* use a complicated case system; that’s just something in their written language.” Both have been proposed - the myth of nearly modern “Vulgar Latin” coexisting alongside written Classical Latin - has long since been debunked. So no, Classical period Romans were not omitting them; they remained part of the spoken language well into the 5th century AD which we know thanks to extensive writings by grammarians. Many things changed in that time, but we do know that Classical Latin has clear phonemic vowel length, most especially because the grammar does not function without it. The eventual loss of this phonological feature is the main driver of case loss and grammatical change.

[@Philoglossos]

It's actually impossible for vowel length to have been absent in the spoken language, as developments in the romance languages cannot be explained without the maintenance of vowel length in the vernacular until a fairly late period. Also, plenty of Indo European languages have phonemic vowel length - Norwegian, Czech, Slovak, Serbocroatian, Lithuanian, Latvian, Hindi, Persian, etc. This notion that vowel length wouldn't have been present in the vernacular is only ever something that people who speak modern languages without phonemic vowel length tend to assume. It has no historical or philological basis.

[@SoulcatcherLucario]

why does the german latin sound so good though? i know it's inaccurate, but it sounds so _menacing_ to me, perfect vibe for this scene

[@sebbvell3426]

You should do more videos about times that Hollywood got the wrong Latin pronunciation!!!

[@Mikethealtarboy]

Visita, quaesumus, is a prayer from Compline (daily prayer before bed!) :-D

[@Mikethealtarboy]

I had to go look up the Exorcism of Demoniacs. That little bit included is _late_ in the rite, and the Compline prayer is not part of it. I'll have to watch this episode now to figure out what's going on! It's unusual that a female priest (thus, presumably, Anglican or Lutheran) would be doing an exorcism in Latin.

[@FatherJMarcelPortelli]

Exorcists that I know say that the Church’s exorcism liturgies prayed in Latin are more efficacious than when prayed in the vernacular, because Latin is a sacred language. (By the way, please don't think watching this Netflix show is in any way going to teach you something accurately regarding Catholicism.)

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Who would think that about this show? It’s just a silly fantasy

[@pxnchx93]

So guys, do you recommend Sandman?

[@robinmitchell4721]

I have a meme for this. Basically it's about how Latin speakers keep summoning demons every time they try to have a conversation in Latin.

[@Nadeto29]

Lest you deny the existence of a double sound / ch =k or X - for It. / / ch //- some of your colleagues are working quite hard on the denial of these all-important connected syllables. For precisely defined people who know little about the possibilities of writing. The questions you ask are many. //аа/habitationom / which is accepted according to the entry of /h/ not to have double vowels. Grammar is huge but in general /h/ is not an important sign in the Italian language. So he entered but was not important, he remained as an additional. And as an expression it comes from elsewhere. Italian law is the least related to England. Words cannot define, the entry of Latin America has a more important meaning.

[@simdsn3215]

Can someone explain to me why we have a women dressed up in snug clothes pronouncing the rite of exorcism ? I thought the Roman Ritual Titulus XI Caput I 1. Stated « >Sacerdos< de peculiari et expressa Ordinarii licentia vexatos a dæmone exorcizaturus ea qua par est >pietate< >prudentia< ac >vitæ integritate< præditus esse debet qui non sua sed divina fretus virtute >ab omni rerum humanarum cupiditate alienus< ...

[@003mohamud]

Cuz it's a tv show

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but the one character appears to be an Anglican priest or ordained minister, and the younger woman wears her clothes for the wedding ceremony / exorcism. Otherwise, you'll have to watch the show since I don't know the context.

[@ZupTepi]

I heard they didn't want to re-cast Keanu Reeves in his rightful role of Constantine. So they turn the character into a woman.

[@003mohamud]

@@ZupTepi supposedly they didn't have the permission of whichever company owns the tv rights to Constantine so they had to make do.

[@simdsn3215]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Excuse me for being so easily offended. I haven’t watched the show, you’re right in that, and the video is about the prononciation after all. I didn’t know anglicans had exorcism and to be honest I wouldn’t recommend them to. I guess I was fooled by the RR on the front page. But as you say one of the quoted prayers are from compline and not from the RR.

[@shashikamanoj1160]

Crux Sacra Sit mihi lux Non draco sit mihi dux Vade Retro satana Nunquam suade mihi vana Sunt mala que libas Ipse venena bibas!!! (Go to Traditional Latin Mass)

[@guillermorivas7819]

La cruz sagrada será mi luz. El dragon no será mi guía. Vete detrás de mí, satanas. Nunca me aconsejes en vano. Hay cosas malas que te gustan. Bebas veneno tu mismo.

[@augustinepinnock7740]

I've not seen those last three lines before. Where do they come from?

[@robertberatheon4213]

@@augustinepinnock7740St. Benedict medal

[@Kolious_Thrace]

Everything sounds 100 times better than the incredible Hellenic spell in Xena…😂 At least here they had an original text, they didn’t said random words! Yia su kalimèra > Hello good morning Yia su kaliníxta > hello good night Yia su kali “noche” … Noche isn’t Hellenic😂😂😂😂

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ahahahaha how funny!

[@Kolious_Thrace]

@@polyMATHY_Luke it’s was so cringe 😂😜

[@Kolious_Thrace]

@@polyMATHY_Luke you should check a tv series called “The vampire diaries” There were some witches there and they were saying spells in a language that sounded like Latin. They used some characteristic Latin suffixes like -um -inus -ia -eus … But I don’t know if they bothered to translate a text into Latin or they just wrote gibberish!