POLYRHYTHMS vs POLYMETERS

[@andrewhuang]

Psssst....I have a music making app coming out soon....it's kind of related to this video because you can do polymeters in it but really it's a full on sample-based DAW for iOS :D Sign up to get notified when it drops - it will be 20% off for the first week or two: flipsampler.com Thanks for watching! Leave any ideas for future Theory Thursday vids below! Much love.

[@fluffartistt]

will it ever be released on android?

[@bigzish]

i like ya cut g

[@andrewhuang]

@@fluffartistt We're looking into whether that's possible. Android doesn't handle audio as well and there are a LOT more screen sizes / device types to deal with, so it's a challenge

[@seththetechguy]

Will it be free?

[@mycraft1926]

does the e-mail subscription cost?

[@AdamNeely]

0:25

[@GoviaM]

abcdbga

[@snow5772]

hey there mr jazz man

[@dagonzalez1757]

B A S S

[@NZsaltz]

7/11

[@diretoaospontos-victorbarb7377]

That was fast

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Really clear, effective breakdown of an often confused topic! Nicely done Andrew 👍🏼🙂

[@st_orlie]

Good timing

[@brycesnodgrass8373]

good comment

[@henryph6194]

Good reply

[@fluffartistt]

Good reply to a reply

[@Dimitri-Jordania]

Why does it sound like ALL of his music is about an X gf? He mustve dated like carmen electra or some shit. Gr8 musician btw not hating.

[@TehBrian]

Oh.. uou

[@sakurahertz]

The visual representations at around 3:10 are such a nice touch

[@KalebPeters99]

Right?? I loved that! I'm definitely using that representation from now on 💯

[@Nightmoore]

That cowbell/cow track was fire.

[@fisheatsyourhead]

MOO MOO MOO

[@mishaisbetterthanall]

the cowbell is a superior instrument

[@perseusjackson644]

Not gonna lie i'd have that as a ringtone/alarmtone

[@nosemeocurrenada93]

yeah but I really need more cowbell

[@nicodemolalli5643]

tupac woulda killed that shit

[@gabrielkaul4205]

The way Andrew represents the difference visually at 3:10 is genius

[@MisterTingles]

oooh... that graphic with the letterspacing/wordlength was actually really useful

[@AxxLAfriku]

I have a big... BIG... BIIIIGGGGG... muscles!!! HAHAHA!!! What did you think I was going for? That's so DIRTY of you! GAGAGAGA!!! I am the funniest KZbinr ever! Maybe that's the reason why I have TWO (!!!) HOT (!) GIRLFRIENDS. Thanks for being alive, dear mr

[@ssiriss1120]

@@AxxLAfriku wow where can I buy what you're on

[@audioTopia]

couldn't agree more.

[@cloudscape5996]

Can you timestamp me that part?? I'm not getting the reference..

[@MisterTingles]

@@cloudscape5996 3:08

[@disuyetin]

Music teachers: we're going explain the concepts to make it more understandable Andrew: *cow*

[@grasped2]

and cowbells

[@AikiraBeats]

Right the easiest way to do it

[@RoomieOfficial]

Enjoyed this video a lot! You’re killing it my friend

[@刘巴顿z]

hi rami

[@madocofcatarina7190]

Enjoyed this video a lot! You're killing my friend

[@LukeIcardMusic]

Roomie and andrew collab on a poly rhythm track plz

[@themelomaniac1083]

Roomie can you do a video showing how you produce your music? BTW Love from India

[@theskv21]

roomieswami

[@InVacuo]

"What is my purpose?" "You pass butter." "... Oh my god." Had to think of this.

[@DanielHipólitoHernando]

Rick and Morty reference hehe

[@jimmypeeps8471]

Robot is lucky. Most people are miserable because they feel like they have NO purpose in life 😂

[@Aldoistaken]

Yo fellow Logic Pro users, to use the method shown at 8:26, hit control + T (on Mac) while in the piano roll, have funnn

[@gabbo9795]

eyyy it's Aldo

[@Luk3r]

It's amazing how much you do for the music community. So much free information organised into concise and entertaining videos. I've learnt so much over the years and feel like I never had to "study", just watch entertaining videos.

[@crapadopalese]

0:25 someone finally freaking said it. And doesn't surprise me it's coming from the one youtube music persona who writes odd rhythms but makes it actually sound like it is musical.

[@andrewhuang]

😅

[@honsebingus6426]

It makes sense

[@NZsaltz]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Sungazer. The rhythms are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of music theory most of the songs will go over a typical listener's head.

[@Howitchewstofeel5gum]

@@crapadopalese It's a variation on old copypasta about Rick&Morty

[@Humr666]

@@crapadopalese in the words of a classic: "it's a meme you dip"

[@inspir.edmusic]

That polyrhythm midi editing in ableton just blew my world apart.

[@ZethKeeper]

Didn't know Andrew has his twin as a slave that passes the goddamn butter.

[@Daphoid]

He also waters and talks to plants.

[@Hw_yozora]

That is his purpose.... Oh my God!

[@AesculapiusPiranha]

You pass the butter

[@hedlund]

Nor did I. Someone does have to pass the goddamn butter, though.

[@lilacflowerao]

It's not a twin, it's an imprisoned demon clone andrew tricked into staying with his immaculate music

[@musicplaylists64]

starting at 6:05 the amount of editing correlating with visuals and then audio plus to mention the emotions expressed simultaneously is extremely impressive. *hands applauding*

[@cashwarior]

we got polyproblems here

[@TheSreYTK]

good one

[@kemasolar]

Then I would recommend the podcast poly-weekly ;) it helped my relationship(s)

[@DJSidhu24]

😂🤣👌

[@Zuion_Art]

Polycliche

[@jessewarren817]

That animation of the words at around 3:20 was pure gold

[@chaschmerscholucasaege]

Holy, I love some of the random sprinkles of over the top or unexpected editing (like 3:02 where another Andrew passes the goddamn butter or 6:05 where everything just hits differently)!

[@raverone909]

I freeze framed @6:16 and was not disappointed.

[@gammergames3322]

@@raverone909 that is one musical butt

[@talimn]

you have no idea how much it pleases me to see this broken down for viewers in a manner that simplifies the misuse of this term. Ive had this conversation more times this year than I could possibly remember and now I can just send this link instead. Nailed it.

[@augstn]

the cow-cowbell thingy could do as an awfully effective alarm

[@lucascecconi258]

5:58 -6:35 Is a masterpiece

[@clonazepanda]

The video, the editing, Andrew him self, just so professional

[@ImJustNeon]

If you haven't already, go check out Virtual Riot's "I heard you like polyrhythms" track. It's so simple yet beautiful

[@SavantAudiosurf]

Also came from that video.

[@nebroskitheraut6705]

If you are using Studio One, then you can apply the 2nd or non-time consuming method 8:08 (both audio and midi) although the particular two (or more sounds) need to be on different tracks. I will be using the order of tracks as given in the video for my examples and methods. For Midi, arrange the notes in the way that Mr. Andrew has instructed you to 8:12 (on different tracks in S1 of course). Now Time Stretch the midi event of the longer track so that the last note is at the very start of the next bar (somewhat like the instructions here 8:31). It is quite the same for audio, with a few changes. For audio, follow the first step used for the midi track. Now merge the 2nd track and bounce to new track. Then Time Stretch it so that the start of last sound of the bounced out event is at the very start of the next bar. I hope you found this useful! (Please pardon my mistakes in my English if there are any, as I'm not a Native Speaker) [Also a huge thanks to you Mr. Andrew as I did not understand the difference between Polymeters and Polyrhythm until today]

[@neo-paine7071]

8:30 you can do this in FL without the extra note!

[@MoxofBatches]

I'm so glad you finally discussed Long Gone. It's my favorite song off Stars and the rhythm always satisfied my mathcore soul

[@Tony_Tyson]

Oh man this is a pet peeve of mine; thank you for setting the record straight! 3:12 is a great way of showing the difference between the two.

[@ZethKeeper]

Cute roast on Adam Neely and Jacob Collier.

[@vitinhuffc]

Cool samba tambourine, thats a REALLY cliche rythmn here Hugs from brazil

[@apollog7764]

Holy shit the editing

[@shink3760]

Always. A Train is next level.

[@arrtemfly]

hey, you can hold down shift to drag the grey marker with the notes selected staying intact. that way you can do note transformations without needing to add an extra note.

[@kjl3080]

?

[@sahil-p]

3:12 Great animation for understanding the difference! That's going to be my new background

[@asiullopes]

me, as a brazilian: ih rapaz o tamborim igualzinho uma chamada de bateria *3s later* andrew: so i got that from brazilian samba

[@abnerrodrigues212]

Eu quase escrevi um comentário em inglês, mas vamos deixar os gringos aqui com a beleza do nosso idioma à mostra :P

[@illford]

I knew j heard something Brazilian sounding in there

[@dennysoliveira8441]

Brazilians watching the video: Wait a minute, is that SaMbA? 😂👌🏼

[@SandroFrancisMiranda123]

Eu tambem sou brasileiro

[@uvi_music]

5:4 is a fun one, the saying is I’m looking for a home to buy :))

[@amandajoy8947]

For more fun with meters with five beats, the Uruk-hai in the Lord of the Rings march to a count of five. Their war drums beat on one and four.

[@DARC98]

Some good polymeter examples are The Accolade by Symphony X, at 7:27, The Architect by Haken, at the 7:13 mark, What Happens Now by Porcupine Tree, at 5:02, and, basically, the entre Meshuggah's discography is based on polyrhythms and polymeters, usually at the same time. So, have fun.

[@shaddjimenez4524]

Great visualizations and editing to explain the music theory, I’ve always realized you make complex rhythms sound really good

[@analytical768]

0:17 I really like that theme

[@OmerFlame]

That intro to Theory Thursday is SO well made Andrew

[@nathan9783]

As a drummer love this video and how oversimplified - in a good way this is. Took me about 50mins of youtube videos to understand 4:3 and you did it in 30 seconds haha

[@SPINAET]

polyriddim.

[@ekyo_stuff]

ye

[@baronvonbeandip]

yeah, we know by now

[@descar.G]

WOOP WOOP

[@descar.G]

I can hear the drop

[@tomvesely4008]

I don't really know much about it and probably have it confused with samba, but don't some carribean genres use polyrythms?

[@paniproduce]

Polymeters=Same Beat Polyrhythm=Same Measure Thanks!

[@pabbicool]

The part from 6:05 - 6:35 was so dramatic I thought he was going to say it would take a year or something for it to line up again.

[@leiocerayt]

xD

[@LelandDantzler]

The editing in this one was incredible, Andrew. The best part by far, for me, was the simultaneously functional and visually striking typography using the font alignment. Genius.

[@tadzik300]

Yo Andrew, that King Crimson piece is called Discipline, not Disciple, I think? Nonetheless, a wonderfull vid. You're a god of music education to me.

[@LiamKaplan]

this is correct, and I'm glad someone said it lol

[@GuyWhoLikesTheSnarkies1435]

Yeah, Discipline is the correct title. An essential prog song from the band😃

[@mitsostim07]

The whole album is really great, actually my favorite I think

[@HieronymusLudo]

As a beginner (two years now), your videos and their range of subjects have been invaluable. Thank you!

[@brycesnodgrass8373]

happy thanksgiving everyone 🦃

[@OBG_Beats]

8:25 in FL you highly light then when you drag like you would to change the length of the note hold alt and then click and drag it then you can stretch the notes just like Andrew did

[@Dwooswa]

Polyriddim converted into polymeters? Someone do this

[@steadywatching7564]

Weh?

[@Tiogar60]

Polymetrim?

[@s-zz]

Phonon?

[@Dwooswa]

@@s-zz yes

[@kimyona9746]

Oh look it's dwooswa again

[@stephpar.official]

Another similar system is 'phasing' à la Steve Reich. The system that he originally used was to play the same sound on a group of tape players that are set to playback at slightly different speeds, producing massively long polyrhythms that don't match up for the whole length of the piece - this can take half an hour or more to complete. The latest method that I've been using to get this effect in Ableton Live 10 is to create a midi clip in arrangement view for each voice. I freeze and flatten each track at a different tempo for each track (calculated so that they each complete after a specific time), turn off Warp and loop each clip. This produces some very interesting rhythms.

[@00042]

do you have some examples?

[@stephpar.official]

@@00042 The first piece recorded was Steve Reich's "It's Gonna Rain" and anything by Reich with the 'phase' in the title. The method I mentioned above was used on my piece "Phased Serialism 2020" (the other pieces used different recording methods) and can be found on my Soundcloud . The Wikipedia article, that also contains some more examples of phasing, is at .

[@vladislavkalkaev9233]

⚠️ Warning: this channel contains a killer level of aesthetics hidden under the guise of simplicity

[@billjensen3008]

*production value 🙄

[@AlexMoudgil]

dude ur visual metaphors for things are mindblowing - the letters of polyrhythm and polymeter symbolizing their definitions... genius

[@greycastro1009]

Holy shit, I’ve been mixing their names up for *years*, and had no idea-thanks!

[@aislingoda6026]

i often use polymeter to help learn polyrhythms. for example, for 5:4, i used a rhythm in my head of *1 + 2 + a* for one hand and *1 + 2 +* for the other, and tapped only one the ones. this gives you an easier way to count while you learn the feeling of the rhythm, and then you just work at internalising the feeling

[@diegooliveirabenjamin]

This is a whole unique league of youtubing

[@juliusteo]

That animation from 3:12 to 3:20 just does it for me. Best summary of polymeter and polyrhythm.

[@RacingStripeAV]

Going deeper into the math-rock, the "djent" subsubgenre of progressive metal can very much be about that - whether it be Meshuggah's "New Millenium Cyanide Christ" (23/16 on 4/4), or TesseracT's "Palingenesis" (13/8 on 3/4). Also if you want another "spoken word polyrhythm", 5:4 can have the phrase "go to bed, go upstairs to bed".

[@patrickcompton1483]

Autechre and The Algorithm use polymeter as well. I also use it in my metal and IDM projects, it's freakin fun as heck to play guitar to.

[@sione_etc]

i listen to a lot of mathy stuff but meshuggah are the gods of polyrhythmic/polymetric metal as far as i'm concerned, no one else commits to it like them

[@patrickcompton1483]

If you really want to see some odd meters, check out indian konnokol rhythms

[@00042]

@@patrickcompton1483 Indian Classical Music is one of the most complicated musical systems in the world. I am particularly a fan of the Raga Bhairav :)

[@ndpndntvar]

Bro, I love your channel. It fucking crushes man. I've learned so much from you. You're literally the definition of how to be an educator in the 21st century. Straight up, you're better than any educator ive ever scene in university. Mad props.

[@mekullag]

Now I can‘t stop imagining a young emo Chopin yelling at his mom to stop calling him Freddy. “My name is ‘show pain‘ now, UGH you just don‘t GET me“

[@Isa-tn7ex]

Awww... that’s so cute 😂 Fryderyk did make a lot of pretty emo comments, including: "It is not my fault if I am like a mushroom which seems edible but which poisons you if you pick it and taste it, taking it to be something else,"

[@Thedrummersalmanac]

Man... You made some very heady concepts very entertaining to digest and learn... Incredible content creation style! Bravo!

[@calrsom]

Not only are you clearly a talented musician, but I'm always struck by the creativity of your filming and especially editing. Always educational, inspiring, and entertaining!

[@johndilallo5239]

As a Brazilian person myself I instantly identified the tambourine sound and rhythm and expected you to say something about Brazilian music! Very interesting to know that you used to play samba Andrew :)

[@aislefivemusic]

"what is my purpose?" "you pass butter." "oh my God" 3:02

[@yourlocaltalkingcat2958]

...yeah, welcome to the club pal

[@avgchoobafan]

8:08 For the DAW trick, as long as your DAW let you stretch MIDI segments, it's pretty much possible in any DAW or even music notation software.

[@Rick_Foley]

Gonna use the second example at Thanksgiving dinner tonight. Credit will go to Andrew!

[@refl3xes835]

I have no idea if I'll ever end up using polymeters or polyrhythms all that much but I just love to learn about a new topic with the way you explain things so clearly. Keep killin it man!

[@pipsounds]

That tiny detail of explaining the difference between both concepts by animating their respective name (3:07) in a way that visually reflects their audible properties is the entire reason I watch educational KZbin content. Like I'm never gonna forget the difference between these two things now thanks to that. Great stuff as always, Andrew! :D edit: fixed timestamp

[@thelorebooger]

I am thankful for this video. Thanks for releasing it on thanksgiving

[@maltalented]

the thumbnail is just my melted music brain seeing the title

[@Syncopator]

My favorite way to do polymeters is to start with a bassline at, for example, a 7 beat loop. Then take another 3 beat loop of *intervals* such as 0, 4 & 7 which is a major chord (root=0, maj 3rd = 4, perfect 5th = 7), and create a melody line to go with the bassline by elevating it an octave and modulating it with the 3 beat loop. Really easy to do when you're working with CVs for the melodies, because you just add the cycling interval voltages to the bassline v/oct CV and there you are. The Doepfer A-185-2 Precision Adder is perfect for this because it can add or subtract octaves as well as the input CVs. You get a resulting melody pattern that works with the bassline, but is 21 beats long (3*7). And such melody lines are often very, very cool...

[@azd685]

My new favorite thing is poly phrases: For example, putting a 4-measure melody over a 3-measure chord progression, so the chords shift every time the phrase repeats

[@gehteuchnichtsan7911]

Isn't this just polymetric?

[@azd685]

Not quite. Everything in the same time signature, but one part is playing three-bar phrases and one is playing four-bar phrases. It's a lot more subtle than polymeter when you listen to it.

[@azd685]

Fair... I guess I'm just saying that if you keep your polymeter in multiples of an underlying time signature, it stops sounding like polymeter and sounds like something else, which is less in-your-face

[@Chicagosmisfit]

I had this question in my head the other day and I'm so happy you answered it!

[@Reliquancy]

Calling Jacob Collier and Adam Neely out for being so extra to flex all the time lol

[@sven20101001]

Don't know anything about making music or music theory , but listening to you talking about that stuff is kind of relaxing , and makes listening to music more interesting for me. And Long gone is such a good song , for getting a good mood. Thank you Andrew :3

[@Mountainside101]

Any tool fan out there?? 😂 We are used to this mate!

[@ace.of.space.]

when you summarized the concept using the spacing of the letters in the words at 3:12 ... brilliant

[@Dex99SS]

I could NEVER do that ... the snapping at different rates... never. that butter though, lol

[@Rob_Hogan]

I had exactly the same thought. Saw him do it and concluded "our brains are just different". But then he gave the vocal phrase trick and it just worked right away for me.

[@NZsaltz]

You definitely could with a little practice. It's not that hard once you get the rhythm

[@Inyrth]

Love the new friends you got over in your studio

[@marycansing]

They taught us “pass the bread and butter” because we were classy.

[@____-gy5mq]

brits?

[@jasonlambert5552]

And not as Sassy

[@erikvan]

Wow. This video is soooo wel made. You're simply a great storyteller Andrew.

[@donnytheflow]

So let me get this straight... Polymeter: we chew at the same pace but have different amounts of food and can eat leisurely Polyrhythm: same orders but the restaurant closes in a bit so get to eating? --- edit: spaced on the english

[@thildamoon]

The jocke blew my mind. Loved it. Thanks

[@CryingShayme]

Interesting to have this distinction made because I am realizing the song that introduced me to the concept of polyrhythm also uses polymeter, and alternates back and forth between the two on piano. Bemoan by Agent Fresco. Makes for great piano exercise. You alternate between doing a 5/4 poly meter (1-2-3-4-5 and 1-5-3-5) to doing the same 1-5-3-5 pattern with both hands but with a 4/3 polyrhythm

[@BrianSantero]

I was literally working with one of my students yesterday on this subject. Doing 3:2 (and subdividing them) in order to feel triplets by switching between compound and meter mode (like "America" in WSS). Thank you for doing this, I now have a perfect go-to for when I need a good explainer.

[@Official_RIDM]

I love your sense of humor Andrew. Your choice for cowbells and cows is priceless.

[@immersivesinner3350]

Gustav Holst, 2nd Suite in F, the 4th Movement. There's a section where the brass is playing in 3/4, and the woodwinds are playing in 6/8, the conductor leads on the downbeat of each measure. Really cool polyrhythm all the way back in High School band.

[@crescentceleste]

I've been really into polyrhythms for a while and then I found out about polymetres and was so confused on the difference. I tried reading up on both on them to compare the two but u just got more confused. This video popped up in my recommended and oh my gosh, it all makes so much sense to me now!!! Thank you so much for the super clear and simple video!! Polyrhythms are just measure-consistent whereas polymetres are beat-consistent!!! omg it all clicks in my brain now!!!

[@vnmo6176]

Extremely informative. Very easy to understand. 10/10 would recommend!

[@WizardOfArc]

This explanation is so clear! Thank you for this Andrew

[@speedskis777]

Love the videos Andrew. Just to add, movable polyrhythm is another term for what you refer to as polymeters. It’s a term used fairly often. I would venture to guess “polymeters” are the appropriate term when a musical composition has more than one written meter (ex. 4/4 in violin, 6/8 for cello, 5/8 for piano), and “movable polyrhythm” is the appropriate term when the piece has only one written meter, but note contour and rhythms imply groups over that broader meter (ex. violin plays groups of 4, cello plays groups of 6, piano plays groups of 5, but now we add a drummer in the background laying down a fat 4 to the floor groove as a backdrop.)

[@tbrickman]

I’ve always been mesmerized by Long Gone! So glad you could shed some light on it!

[@pursuitofnatural]

Excellent breakdown! For anyone using the latest version of Reaper, you can do the fast method with alt+shift and drag the end of the item when you get the hand cursor.

[@bribri7858]

You just made a drummer and beginning producer's day by talking about this topic, so thank you for that :)

[@Fine_Mouche]

i can hear for the year the 4:5 rythm of the begginning, the 2 sound type you choice are so nice !

[@jedilicious7025]

Holy mackerel, your videos are truly amazing. Educational, fun to watch, aesthetically pleasing and very musical.

[@Breisler]

Finally got around to watching this one. I've got a song where the guitars are in 11/16 and the drums are in 5/4, and it is a massive headache to perform live but when it works out it makes me feel like the polymeter god.

[@monstdnt]

i think ive been sleeping on your lessons because these explanations and graphics are so digestible! Thank you !!

[@monicamomney8756]

This video is absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for taking your time to explain something so extremely complicated 🙌

[@tsuNa19991]

Thank you so much, i was interested in polyrhythms but the videos i saw just explained how it worked, not how to use them in my DAW, fascinating concept