Pony Bottle / Stage Bottle / Deco Bottle

[@blackoceandiving8242]

Perfect video. One of the guys I work with said “ I need a stage tank as a backup” Me: “it’s a Pony System for a redundant air source and a stage bottle to increase bottom time. Couldn’t have put together a better video in this subject.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello Black Ocean Diving, glad you liked the video. We hear new divers all the time call redundant air systems all kinds of names. Even the brand name Spare Air systems, get used for pony systems as well.

[@seikibrian8641]

Part of the confusion comes from not understanding the English language and where terms came from. For example: "stage bottle." A stage bottle was originally called that because it is placed...or staged...at a specific place, independent of where the diver is at the moment; it may be hung at 15 feet to use during a safety stop, it may be placed outside a cave for low-air situations for those exiting a cave, etc. And, of course, one or more may be staged at different depths for use during decompression stops. Therein lies a point of confusion: a second use of the term comes from bottles designated for use during a particular "stage" of a dive, such as a deep stage, ascent stage, or a decompression stage. The best way to avoid confusion would be to have a universal set of standard terminology, but that's never going to happen. The next best way is for speakers to be consistent in their own use, and for listeners to be attentive and take into account the context in which the speaker is speaking.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

I agree with you that a universal terminology would be great to have, but I also agree that will never happen. I catch myself getting tongue tied all the time, when talking to students or other divers, calling a pony bottle a stage bottle / deco bottle / sidemount bottle. I may be part of the problem with the confusion, but then again, I am only human.....

[@seikibrian8641]

Considering the limitations of oral transmission (Wouldn't it be great if we were all telepathic? ...Or maybe not.), I think you do very well. Your videos almost always have something useful I can take away with me.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

SeikiBrian True, but I do deal with people a lot at the shop, and if they really knew what I thought of them, I would probably lose them as a customer. It would be cool though Underwater.

[@AndreaFlorio]

great videos but PLEASE also mention metric units! depth in meters, size of the bottle in liters and pressure in bars! :) thank you

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello @AndreaFlorio, we will try to do better in our future videos.

[@johnmichaelsaraceno7339]

Always good to hear from those IN THE KNOW!

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello John Michael Saraceno, we are glad you like our video.

[@Tracks777]

Brilliant work! Keep it up!

[@brazeagle]

The best brother. Thanks a lot. You have been very helpful in my diving adventures.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello Luiz Carlos Laba, glad you like our videos.

[@unrealbot3027]

You cleared my doubts right down to the last grain! Thanks! Instantly subbed. I have another question. Do octopuses or alternate second stages fit in your primary tank? Or do they fit in a separate tank?

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello @unrealbot3027, glad you liked the video. Typically, your primary regulator will have a primary and an alternate regulator attached to it. The pony system, or redundant air source system will only have one second stage attached to it. So this gives you a total of 3 second stages while diving. Now some divers who choose to place the pony bottle on their back, will choose to remove one of the second stages from the primary regulator. This helps eliminates extra hoses and can also help with confusion during a stressful situation. The key is to train and practice with your system in a pool prior to diving it in open water. I would also encourage a you to seek a local Instructor who dives a similar system to help get training on each system as well.

[@stueaston1043]

Excellent! Thanks Brian 👍

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

You are welcome Stu Easton.

[@yjawhar]

During my Deep course, I learnt about the stage or emergency (mandatory) decompression cylinder that is used in case the NDL was accidentally breached. From my understanding, that stage or deco bottle could be used with regular air or Nitrox (I'm Nitrox certified), and could either be left somewhere around 5 meters depth (hanging from a boat or somewhere on the ground at 5 meter depth) or be taken as a side mount bottle along with the primary back mount bottle. However, that cylinder shouldn't be considered part of the dive plan. Here's the question: can I use this configuration (back mount with side mount/stage bottle) as my bottom gas in case I wasn't going somewhere near my NDL? If so, can the side mount be Nitrox and the back mount be regular air or is that stepping into the technical side of diving. Would having one back mount and one or two side mount bottles require specialized training such as side mount? I probably mixed up the terminology, but I don't know if there's a standard name for this configuration. Sorry for that.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Great question Yousif Jawher. Having a good understanding of decompression theory is the key to juggling different gases while underwater. Yes this is a small part of technical diving, which I would encourage you to seek out a local tech Instructor in your area for further training. But in short, you most certainly could run back gas as air, and have stage bottle with higher partial pressures of O2. I will routinely dive with air in both of my Sidemount bottles to a depth of 100 feet, and carry a 3rd bottle with 40% in it to extend my dives at a shallower depth, as we deal with quite of few temperature changes here in our local area. Decompression Sickness can be induced with a sufficient temperature change, coming from 43 degree water at 100 feet to 85 degree water near the surface. So even though these dives are recreational and not technical, I will tend to change the gas source as I ascend to a shallower depth to help flush out the Nitrogen on gassed at depth. If this is the option you choose to follow, I would suggest seeking out a local Instructor who can assist you in gear configurations and training to help you become very proficient with different types of gear.

[@yjawhar]

@@LakeHickoryScuba you're the best. Your answers are straight to the point, yet so detailed! Thank you! I'm planning on taking intro to tech or IANTD advanced Nitrox in the future, but I'm considering doing different gases until then to extend my bottom times while taking into consideration max PO2 and NDL.

[@ts440s]

thanks so much your videos are excellent not much out there on this topic.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Your Welcome

[@CorrupteddSanity]

Disregard home-dwelling keyboard-warriors. Continue doing what you do!

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Thanks hedonist222. Will do.

[@brazeagle]

Can you use that ALTERNATE 30 CF bottle on a shark mount as well?

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

You sure can Luiz Carlos Laba.

[@c.patricksadowski9959]

Brian...mini SPG (attached to 1st stage regulator as a “button”) or a regular sized SPG with a 6” hose? Was thinking button SPG as it’s one line less to secure. Thoughts?

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello C. Patrick Sadowski. Both. I use the button gauges on pony bottle systems, and standard gauges on a 6 inch hose for sidemount and stage bottles.

[@chrishiggins8875]

I usually explain it like this.... Pony is redundant system you do not plan to use only to be used in out of air emergency. Usually air - no MOD stickers Stage bottle is air you do plan on using to extend bottom time but is the same as your bottom gas. O2 % may change Dive to dive but was filled for your dive plan and can be used at any point during the dive. - no MOD stickers. Deco bottle has a different O2 than you back gas and may not be safe to use at any depth of the dive. - must have MOD stickers.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

That's a great way to explain it.

[@chrishiggins8875]

Yes it can be confusing since often they are all connected with a “stage kit”

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Very True

[@pucioy]

As I understand it: Pony - small emergency cylinder, Stage - for going down and/or stay longer ( may be with less O2), Deco - for going up on deco dives ( usually with more O2). Same rigging on last two.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello pucioy, that is one way of looking at it. The rigging can be the same on all three.

[@acarnold]

Thanks for the great video. I’m a Monterey diver looking to slide into a 19 cubic-foot pony bottle for redundant supply. Can you please recommend a good, complete “stage bottling kit” like the one you show in the video - something that has everything I need out of the box? I see several brands available, but am wondering what brand and type you like. Thanks so much for your informative videos.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello aaron arnold. I personally like the XS Scuba brand. They are simple to use, and very inexpensive.

[@JMLockpicking]

What is the rubber loop thingy on your spare air and can it be used for with diving with dentures? What dk you recommend for people with dentures?

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

For diving with dentures, I would most certainly recommend a custom moldable mouthpiece. Here is a video showing you how to mold your own. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3vGp5JvfNOeoZY Either the Jax or the SeaCure will work just fine. The loop is a necklace that holds out alternate directly under our chin for easy accessibility.

[@Horwinn]

I've been looking for a video like this for a while

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Garrett Kane We have been asked several times to make a video on the difference on all the different terminology used in Scuba. So we decided to start with all the different types of tanks used while diving.

[@Danny-fp5lx]

Really helpful! Thanks

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

You're welcome

[@c.patricksadowski9959]

Bryan, what first, second, and SPG setup, do you recommend for a Pony bottle? Looking to set something up that doesn’t break the bank. Also, the side mount “kit”...thanks.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello C. Patrick Sadowski. For pony systems, I recommend a Piston Style first stage and any standard second stage. Currently I am using a Mares 12's first stage, with a Mares MV second stage. As far as Sidemount goes, well that is completely up to you. I am currently using the Mares XR 25 XR DR Tech System.

[@wtfman1217]

great vid thanx for the info! in ur own personal opinion do u recommend using a stage/deco bottle as a pony or do u think that is overkill rather than buying a pony bottle I cant make up my mind to just get 1 or the other thanx in advance!!!!

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

If you are just in the need of a redundant air source for the unlikelihood event you ran out of air, I would say a 30 or 40 cf pony would be just fine. But if it's a case of needing the extra air to extend bottom time, I would go with an 80 cf stage bottle. With that being said, if you dive with an 80 on your back and you plan to sling and 80 under your arm, look into switching over to sidemount diving. Anything over a 40 cf under my arm, tends to get in my way. In Sidemount the attachment points are slightly different than slinging a bottle, so it's more streamlined and a whole lot more comfortable.

[@ts440s]

I see you have a mares viper reg I have a dacor viper that free flows at sea level and has difficulty breathing at 80ft plus especially looking up are they worth fixing if parts from mares regs are compatible.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

john metyk In my opinion, yes they are worth fixing. The free flow can be caused by many different things. Most likely is a low pressure seat or high pressure seat causing the free flow. Could also be the intermediate pressure is set way too high. If it become difficult to breathe, most likely it's because the older Dacor regulators were unbalanced regulators, which in that case they all become difficult to breathe the deeper you go.

[@robbiemify]

Mares bought out Dacor decades ago, so although some regs are identical, many are not. Mares did not continue supplying Dacor parts fot very long so spare/replacement parts are had to find, you need to talk to a Mares dealer and get your reg serviced, or replaced !!!

[@timofey2749]

Thank you so much 😊!!!

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

You are welcome

[@eng.osamaelsawaf5153]

Sorry sir.. I couldn't understand your explanation well, so if you please tell me some points: * what is the volume of the small one in the video and how much is it in your country (I think it's USA) * how much it's relating pats (regulator belts...) Thanks for your time and help.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

The purpose of the video was to explain the difference in terminologies between cylinders and their purposes. In regards to your question specifically about the small cylinder, it is a 13 cf Aluminum cylinder, used a lot of times for dry suit inflation, and as a redundant air source as well. Cost on a smaller cylinder like this one can range between $80 - $100. Rigging for the cylinder can also range between $20 - $50. Hope this answers your questions.

[@motivationandtravelchannel4575]

Great information

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Thanks, glad you liked it.

[@ivoryjohnson4662]

I learn every time I watch

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Ivory Johnson Glad to hear.

[@hugo121175]

Is the shop rocking, or is it just me???

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

HUGE8612 Thanks for the kind words.

[@thatbeme]

Thank you.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

You are welcome Bopeep.

[@IScudRunnerI]

Love this

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello Alex, glad you liked our video.

[@anandkhar7520]

How to this in india

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Hello Anand Khar, I'm not quite sure I understand your question.

[@anandkhar7520]

@@LakeHickoryScuba can I buy in this in india

[@justinyeo6358]

Hot filling is called crash filling.

[@LakeHickoryScuba]

Thanks for the comment, that's a new one to me.