Poor Pilot Decision Making leads to near CATASTROPHY! Two Souls onboard... Just go around!

[@Klink330]

Geez, those commentators are very harsh. They must have been perfect students and absolute ace novices. With my 19200 hours, I still remember making stupid mistakes when I had less than 100 hours. You learned from your mistakes, as did I from my mistakes. I now fly Airbus widebodies and I still think about my neophyte mistakes and how they helped me become a better pilot. Keep up the good work and don’t stop learning (and damn those ignorant nay sayers!

[@333aviation]

Thanks @Klink330 . No worries about the Negs. It's perfectly fine. Everyone needs an outlet, and thankfully, I'm one who can roll with the punches. I knew what was potentially coming. We live, we learn, and we try not to repeat the mistakes. The more you fly, the more you learn, the less of these types of videos you have to post! But, someone is going to watch this and learn something valuable from it. Thanks for the support!

[@Chris14321]

I respect you posting this. As you said, its hard to share something like this with the world but you learned from and it luckily nothing bad happened. You earned a new sub

[@333aviation]

I appreciate that, Chris. Thank you! Flying is fun, but a pilot is always learning. I'm a much safer pilot today because of my inadvertent mistakes accumulated in my yesterdays. Thanks for joining the channel!

[@HeyBigChriss]

As someone who just got their PPL, these videos help me. Also, people in these comments act like they are perfect pilots with mo mistakes made whatsosever,

[@333aviation]

Thanks Chriss,... and congrats on earning your PPL! You find out really early in your aviation journey that NO ONE is perfect. And, what you say is 100% true. One of the things I often watch on KZbin are near incidents like this, and I make myself think "honestly... what would I have done in that situation?" From there, I would go on bunny chases to find best practices for dealing with them, and it's been a massive help. Thanks for the comment, Chriss. Blue skies and tailwinds!

[@6stringfool759]

Good on ya man for posting this. I’m not a pilot but weirdly love watching GA KZbin vids and learning the ins and outs. Each time I’ve watched someone’s “I’m embarrassed to show this” vid I’m glad they posted because if the admission costs a little embarrassment or a ding to one’s pride but saves lives, it was more than worth it. 👍🏻

[@333aviation]

Well put, @6stringfool759 . I feel the same way. I too indulge in "disaster" videos because what you learn from somebody else mistake via video can give you an opportunity to "prepare" a method of operation or response, should you ever encounter the same circumstance. Thanks for posting!

[@matthewrammig]

Dude, if you like watching GA videos, you probably need to go learn to fly.👍

[@6stringfool759]

@@matthewrammigHa, I know right? Truthfully though, from all the vids I’ve watched one thing is clear about successful GA pilots and that’s an unwaivering passion for flying that I know I don’t have, at least not right now. Who knows, maybe the flying bug will bite down the road. Not closing the door completely on the idea 😉

[@matthewrammig]

@@6stringfool759 have you done a discovery flight?

[@KarimTroost]

When I was a new pilot many years ago, I was flying in a similar situation, except my home base was in a valley, and when I returned, it was filled with ground fog, it was a situation I was very uncomfortable with, I then flew to an airport 40 miles from my home base and called my mom to pick me up and went back the next day to get my plane. Now, many years later and thousands of hours of flying time, I want to tell new pilots always have an alternative plan. It will save you a lot of stress and may save you and your passengers life.

[@333aviation]

So very true, @user-ql7yv7zx5s . This flight took place about three years ago from the time that I posted it. Since then, I've learned so much in the area of risk management and preparation. In Florida, I have the luxury of having a tremendous amount of airports and airfields within a very short distance of my home airport. Some with runways that are perpendicular to the one available at mine. If I ever experienced this issue again and thought the crosswinds were beyond my or my airplanes ability, I would simply fly 8 miles to the North and land a KBKV in Brooksville, which is just a 30 minute drive from home, and do the exact same thing; pick it up the next day. Thank you for joining the conversation, sir!

[@ChrispyByDefault]

I absolutely respect you for posting this! This was a scary situation but I am glad that you were able to identify where improvement could be made. I would be lying if I said that I have never forced a landing instead of going around. Glad that you guys are safe!

[@333aviation]

I appreciate your comment, @budotengokudojo1624. You learn a lot when you're training to become a pilot. But, what you experience in real flight situations is so valuable. Some experiences are good; some experiences are bad. Most you didn't learn in flight school. What you take away from ALL of those experiences is what can save your life and make you a safer pilot. Thanks for joining in!

[@vasicp]

In another comment you said you took additional dual instruction after this, seeking days with strong gusts, to build crosswind skills. I think an event like this one, where a very dangerous flight ends with zero injuries or damage, provides just about enough of "instruction" to avoid ever getting oneself into the similar situation ever again. People easily forget how powerful the external mental pressure (to get there as planned) can be. Even professionals with thousands of flight hours make these mistakes under the such mental pressure. The thing is, very few pilots will make the same mistake twice. There are generally only two possible outcomes: either you die from it, or you live and learn to never do it again. Learning from such an experience is probably the most powerful, effective way, as it will never ever leave you.

[@333aviation]

So true, @vasicp . I've had a couple of those "I'll never do THAT again" moments in flight. And, they are by FAR the most valuable things I've learned as a pilot, besides basic book knowledge. But, when I landed that day, I was overwhelmingly disappointed with myself for taking such a risk with my wife onboard. I wasn't yet completely comfortable with my new-to-me airplane, and this just really set me back, mentally. I wanted to have the confidence to fly the airplane in all kinds of conditions, because I want whoever flies with me to feel confident with me, as well. As a pilot with a wife and three kids (now, young adults), it has always been important for me to reduce risks as much as possible. I never want to be a statistic, and I pray to God that I never do. Thanks for commenting!

[@Elladril]

You seem like a smart guy and conscientious pilot. Always fly a stabilized approach. They are really pushing that now much more so than even just a few years ago. I know I would be scared af, if I didn’t know how to fly with instruments. You never know what could go wrong or when you need to fly in less than ideal conditions. If I were you, I would definitely learn to do this. It doesn’t mean you necessarily have to go through the expense and hassle of formally getting instrument rated if you don’t want to. Being self-educated is just as good.

[@333aviation]

Thanks @Elladril. That specific flight actually grounded me for a few weeks (voluntarily). It really got me thinking and gave me enough of a scare that I felt I needed to hold off on flying my friends or family members until I got some more dual time in it with CFI's. And I did just that. About 10 additional hours or so. I'm definitely considering the instrument rating idea; I've also thought about upset recovery training and think THAT would be an amazing tool in the arsenal to understand the limitations of your aircraft. Not that I'd ever want to intentionally get myself in a compromising position, but just to have the knowing of what the airplane can and can't do. Thanks for joining the discussion!

[@channelshmanel9882]

Thanks for this video. It only makes sense to prepare yourself mentally for a go around with every single landing. Even with a stable approach, a last-second gust can mess things up. The decision to do a go around should be instinctive. It's way too easy to get tunnel vision with all the nuances of making the landing that it is easy to see how one could ignore the simple option of aborting.

[@333aviation]

That's an excellent point, @channelshmanel9882 . Taking the approach of "every landing is a potential go-around" keeps your mind sharp and helps you stay ahead of the airplane should the need to go-around arise. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@GlenAndFriendsCooking]

Any pilot (like in an airplane pilot, not their parents basement on msfs) who claims that they haven't at some point flown beyond their ability or made mistakes... is lying. It's happened to all of us at some point, it's what you do with that acquired knowledge that matters. Learn and grow as a pilot. We today have the added bonus of being able to easily film our flights, and then review / debrief later - this helps us catch those simple lazy things that creep into our habits; and then correct them. Takes balls to put this out here; but you learned something, and hopefully you'll help someone else learn from this as well.

[@333aviation]

For me, I find that especially true with aviation. When I first bought this Cessna 150, my A&P, who was a former instructor at an aviation school, went up with me for some touch-and-goes so that I could transition from the Cherokee 180 I had trained in. She's a squirrelly little bird in comparison, if there's any kind of wind. Well, I touched down and took off again, but as we climbed ever so slowly and the tree line ahead got closer and closer, I said to him "this thing is climbing like a dog!". He took a quick look and said "oh... that's because you still have full flaps in". I slowly retracted the flaps and kid about having to lift my leg to dodge the trees. I apologized profusely to him, and all he calmly said was "Well... you'll never do THAT again." You learn from your mistakes, and if you care enough about it, you'll remember those things that have imprinted both good and bad memories in your life and won't allow history repeat itself. Thanks for joining the discussion, Glen.

[@cigarsboozeandnews9726]

You show ma an aviator who never made a misjudgment, and I’ll show you a lier. I have a similar story but I finally went around. Knowing what I did made the next attempt perfect. I have a friend that flies jets for a living. 20,000 hours but when I tossed him the keys to my Cherokee 140 he tried to put himself and three adults in it. He got off the ground but knew that instantly he screwed up. A grossly over weight 140 will fly but just barely. They made it back after burning off some fuel. Thanks for the video!!

[@333aviation]

@cigarsboozeandnews9726 - I should have used that approach as a windsock check and for conditional adjustments (go around and widen the pattern if you have to; extend downwind for more time to stabilize your final). Hind-sight is always 20/20, but I'll tell you what; experiences like this really ingrain safety in your forth-coming flights. I would imagine that going from a Jet back to a Cherokee 140 would actually make you a "rusty pilot" by GA standards. There's no shame in a seasoned airline pilot taking a flight with a CFI to get re-acquainted with the world of General Aviation. There's a lot to re-learn when you're low and slow with limited weight capabilities when compared to it's commercial counterparts. Thanks for joining in!

[@himawanfirdaus1813]

Hmm …because we are on a race with time , sunset …is it possible , allowed to make 360 on final ?

[@333aviation]

@himawanfirdaus1813 - Allowed? sure... many things are allowed in an emergency situation in aviation, but not the safest things to do. And, this was not necessarily an emergency... more so what was just perceived as an inconvenient situation. It all comes down to implementing sound pilot decision making. Being that low to the ground, a 360 would be a very bad choice. You'll be throttling the fuel, pulling up flaps, trying to climb while banking 20-30 degrees; your focus would be scattered in a dozen different directions, leading to all kinds of potential disasters. We're taught go-arounds during pilot training for these exact situations. But, sometimes, as novice pilots without many PIC hours, we lack the confidence and/or understanding of how and when to put them into practice in real-life scenarios. That's where flying consistently, gaining experience and building proficiency really pays off. And, yes,... learning from your mistakes, too. Thanks for joining the discussion.

[@efrankphd]

I'm not sure why your decision to "not" do a go-around was such a big deal for you. It wasn't even dark out yet, you had plenty of altitude and airspeed, and I'm sure you have done crosswind landings before, but it is what it is I suppose. It's good to know one's limitations but once you're airborne all that goes out the window. But did you make some mistakes, sure you did but is every landing always perfect, of course not, and that's why we spend so much time in the pattern under all conditions. However, what's important here is that "any landing you can walk away from is a good landing". I would recommend flying with a CFI a little more just to regain some confidence because a lack of confidence in the air can kill you.

[@333aviation]

When it comes right down to it, if I'm being completely honest, @efrankphd , it was a fear-based decision, which made it a very dangerous one. Sure, I had all the training, but my confidence to perform at night-time was not there at the time. Again, this was over three years ago, so many things have improved, and lots of additional flight time; both dual with a CFI and solo, have been logged. But, fear made me choose the least favorable option and go for the landing when I should've gone around. All things considered, it was a VERY good landing... just not a smart one. Thanks for joining in!

[@michaelrussek154]

Well one could argue you evaluated the risk involved. The runway was dry and you had plenty of stopping margin based on the performance of your aircraft demonstration. You just didn’t leave yourself an out. I think most pilots have done something like this once. You can always get away with gambling risk involved but eventually the law of averages will come calling. Your life isn’t the price to pay losing on a bet.

[@333aviation]

So true, @michaelrussek154 . I'm not in the habit of taking unnecessary risks, so it's not really in my character to push the limit. But, on this day, I did. I remember pretty clearly KNOWING that I could get it on the ground safely, but I'll tell you what... once I saw the midway mark pass below me while I was still in the air, I was getting a little concerned. And, there was definitely no way out. Hence, the acknowledgment of me making a bad decision. Thanks for your insight... I appreciate the thoughtful comment.

[@shergillfamily7983]

I do carrier landings all day with my rc plane. That was quite steep of an angle as you came in also not even lined up properly. It’s ok we all done that at some point.

[@333aviation]

With 40 degrees of flaps in, it's pretty amazing how steep of a landing a Cessna 150 can make, especially if you have a decent headwind and slip at the same time. Nevertheless, those types of landing should only be used during training and for REAL emergencies. This situation was neither, but was definitely something I learned from. Thanks for the comment!

[@dsflyerds]

As you said yourself you should have gone around, even though the sun was setting you would still have had pretty good light for at least one or two trips around the pattern if need be.

[@333aviation]

For sure. There was plenty of time. A trip around the pattern literally takes about 3 minutes there. In hind-sight, it was probably just a matter of not keeping up with my night flying and subconsciously thinking "don't let it get too dark before landing with a passenger... you're not current", even though technically I still had about an hour of time left before that window presented an issue. Thanks for commenting!

[@joer.824]

Sure, it's not the greatest decision-making on that one, but sooner or later, every pilot has one of those days when they make a poor decision but are able to walk away from it. I'm pretty sure you would have still had enough daylight for one more lap, but let's say you didn't. Get more comfy with slips, and you could have aggressively slipped it right down to the runway.

[@333aviation]

100% @joer.824 . The goal is never to repeat this series of events. I'm glad me and my bride walked away with nothing more than a scary memory (she was surprisingly VERY calm and giggled after we landed, which was strange to me, because I know she saw my uneasiness). And, the daylight would've still been there, for sure. Hindsight is a beautiful view, but we keep moving forward and making improvements. Thanks for the comment!

[@jeffreysicular5119]

No shame in diverting to an airport with an available RWY into the wind. Rent a car and drive home. Next day find an instructor, return the car, and have the CFI provide X-wind pattern work to help you gain confidence at your home airport. Also you should, with facilitation by your CFI, understand the importance of the criteria of a stable approach. You identified a threat, you assessed the threat, but you threw the Threat Error Management philosophy out the window. Use the experience as a learning tool!

[@333aviation]

Oh, believe me, @jeffreysicular5119 ... that, I did! After this flight (over 3 years ago), I actually grounded myself from flying until I accumulated an additional 10 hours with a couple of CFI's who were willing to go up with me on days with winds that were 15 plus knots. They also kept me at 1,000 ft AGL to ensure that I felt every bump of turbulence as we navigated to nearby airports. It was DEFINITELY a needed and very helpful experience.

[@jimmydulin928]

Prior planning and avoidance of wind and various other elements of the terrain and rivers of air we fly in can certainly prevent a lot of problems. We humans, however, tend to find ourselves in uncomfortable situations however. With wind management, the wind is our friend. It gives us enough relative wind to fly earlier on takeoff, it reduces the radius or our into the wind rather than downwind turns, it reduces ground speed when we land. You were not comfortable with it, but you did mostly exactly as I would have done. You used full flaps and landed . That, along with a strong headwind component, reduced your ground speed. Less damage to tin and skin occurs at slow ground speed. There are other wind management considerations. Why left traffic with a downwind base when you were the only airplane in the pattern? Right traffic would have reduced your ground speed on base and would have reduced the radius, given the same bank angle, of the turn to final. There is more. Rather than repeat no wind and light crosswind circuits, work on crosswind and learn the power/pitch approach that will further reduce airspeed coming into ground effect. When we slow enough with full flaps to get a good sink, we have to add power to control glide angle and rate of descent. This brings the throttle into dynamic control rather than just a set rpm. This is accurate enough to exactly control touchdown spot. With full flaps and power/pitch deceleration on short final coming into ground effect, we can safely angle across from the downwind corner to the upwind bigh airplane touchdown zone marking in the one thousand feet available. Carefully avoiding wind will poorly work to prevent crosswind problems throughout a recreational flying career. Ask your instructor to work on more efficient technique on your flight review. Things like this and the basic low ground effect takeoff to take advantage of the thousands of feet of free ground effect acceleration energy on takeoff. As a default takeoff technique, it will save pilots who miss calculate weight or are less familiar with high DA takeoff. Tell your instructor you want to exercise your license to learn. ACS maneuvers are some of the most energy inefficient techniques in aviation.

[@333aviation]

Wow, @jimmydulin928 ... there's a LOT of great information packed in here. I'm going to definitely read this a couple of times through to get a thorough understanding, though I do understand the basic principles. You know, it's interesting you mention "why not right traffic?". I guess, as with all things in life, we tend to get caught up in the rules. Airport diagram says left traffic. But, if it's a safety issue... why not make right traffic anyway, if you're the only airplane in the pattern or coming in to land? EXCELLENT point! And, you're reference to basic low ground effect takeoff is actually something I've been experimenting with in my recent flights. What a great contribution to this thread! Thank you for joining the conversation and adding some great insight to the subject at hand.

[@therealxunil2]

Catastrophe

[@conradboss]

Fly the standard pattern and you won’t have a problem. 😊

[@333aviation]

@conradboss - definitely something you need to learn to respect as a novice pilot; the importance of a standard pattern, and a stabilized approach. I think with a lot of new skills people learn, there's a natural tendency to believe that you can create a "better way" to do things, or that "our instincts" are better than what we've learned. But, there's a reason why, as pilot's we're taught things like "stabilized approaches" and "go arounds". It saves lives. We learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others and adapt so that history doesn't repeat itself. Which is exactly what I hope this video will do for some who find themselves win similar situations. Thanks for the comment!

[@johnpesale3896]

Still a nice landing

[@333aviation]

It actually WAS pretty good... but, still not the best approach. Thanks for noticing the positives in the negatives, @johnpesale3896 !

[@treylem3]

I paused the vid when you asked what we saw that might be wrong. Well, you seem to be too high, too close and. not aligned with the runway centerline, which probably means an unstablized approach. Idk if you have flaps out yet or not, or maybe you're landing with no flaps, for a higher speed, because of the higher crosswind component. Now I'll watch the rest of the vid.

[@333aviation]

Well Trey, you're swinging four for four! 100% right on all of those observations. This is a classic case of need-to-get-down-idis by a newish pilot. At the time, I did have 20 degrees of flaps, which is the max I would put in with a high crosswind component, but dropping the extra 20 degrees instead of going around was NOT the best option. Thanks for watching!

[@treylem3]

@@333aviation Thano you. Good on you for posting this vid. Like you said, 'we all learn from each other'. You recovered nicely and made a good landing, tho I agree a go-around would've been the best decision. 👍

[@36minutesago7]

Hey not to pile on but I think your shirt was on inside out.

[@333aviation]

DANG IT! That was most likely the onset of everything going South! Lol! THAT was pretty funny. But wait,... I think this was filmed on a Tuesday. That's inside-out day for my family, so... WE'RE GOOD! ;)

[@alexeibobyrev2250]

unstabilized: too high, off centre, too fast

[@333aviation]

100% correct, @alexeibobyrev2250. And, a very bad decision to try to stick a landing with all of those factors. Thanks for joining the conversation!

[@VWPirates]

Your voice sounds like you're whispering sweet nothings into your girlfriend's ear!

[@333aviation]

Lol!!! I love it! So, here's the deal... as a relatively new content creator, I'm still really self conscious when I'm trying to do my voice overs. So, I lock myself in my room and record in there, but I still don't want my family to hear me. Lol. When I heard it back, I think I almost fell in love with myself... and I'm straight! Lol!!! Thanks for the comment. That was great!

[@willsimonds8]

What’s with the “MAYDAY!MAYDAY! MAYDAY!” clickbait? Stop uploading your flying videos to KZbin, and stop taking video of your flights altogether. Stop taking passengers up until you fly with an instructor for 5-10 more hours practicing basics. It’s scary knowing we all share the skies with people like this. You can be safe I’m sure, but you need more practice.

[@333aviation]

I think I covered most of this in my other response, but the "mayday! mayday! mayday!" was exactly that... clickbait. Thanks for clicking ;) . As for the other comments, this video was in my archives from over three years ago. I've got a little more time under my belt, now. I'll be sharing a lot more flying videos, so be sure to subscribe :D

[@Gdub33]

Way too high, way too fast and way too close to the runway. You weren't even lined up properly.

[@333aviation]

And way to anxious to get back on the ground. 100% correct, @Gdub33. Thanks for watching and joining the conversation.

[@Gdub33]

@@333aviation thanks for owning up to your mistakes. It will only make you a better pilot by doing that! Appreciated the video!

[@willsimonds8]

You need to go back up with an instructor. There should have been alarm bells going off way before you turned final. It obviously turned out fine, but your judgement was way off and another bad decision, or just bad luck, could have put you and your wife in the trees.

[@Roseyforyou]

Your comment is uncalled for. He already admitted as much. No need to berate him further.

[@333aviation]

Hey @willsimonds8 . No worries, I took no offense to that comment at all. In fact, like I stated in another reply, what you suggested is exactly what I ended up doing after that flight. I grounded my self and didn't go up with anyone else until I had accumulated an additional 10 hours of dual-time with a couple of different CFI's (you can learn different things from different people). Judgement was completely horrible that day, for sure. Thanks for the comment, Will.

[@333aviation]

Thank you, @Roseyforyou . But, it's ok. This is what we're here for. To learn from our mistakes and sometimes you've got to be ok with harsh criticism, as long as their based on facts. His statements weren't wrong... and I've got thick skin, so all is well. But, thanks for coming to my rescue ;).