VNA #12 - "The Pit" by Neil Penswick - Doctor Who Book Guide - CtW

[@conradslater]

BEST first three minutes of ANYTHING concerning this book, EVER.

[@electricmastro]

Yeah, I think that Andy Lane summed it up best when he said: "Neil had a huge effect on the New Adventures writers that came after, because we were all thinking for god's sake, we do not want to write a book like The Pit! (Laughter) Sorry if you're listening, Neil!" - Four Writers, One Discussion (January 17, 1995).

[@Nickman826]

If you want a historical figure that works as a companion Mary Shelly traveled with the 8th Doctor for a bit in Big Finish

[@toyotatacoma1616]

That paragraph of Neil Penswick talking about how cultured he is is absolutely amazing. It's like someone shaped a /lit/ thread into an interview.

[@bobbyshaddoe3004]

For anyone interested.... Security Kitchen Productions have done an adaptation of The Pit that will be released on KZbin very soon. I am part of the cast, and I have to say that the script adaptation is waaaaay better than the actual book.

[@salva_75]

Good to know, I'll give it a listen because I found the book impossibly difficult to read at the time. Congratulations to those who adapted it!

[@SanFran51]

I'm surprised you can actually write a version that isn't complete gibberish.

[@DrEeveeYT]

"The closest Classic Who got was City of Death" I disagree, HG Welles in Timelash

[@tannith_toyart]

Holy crap I can't believe we've done 11 of these already. Congrats for making such progress!

[@themirrorsofmymind]

When I first read _The Pit_ I found it enthralling. Reading it again, over time, I was struck by the number of times the author uses "had had" in sentences. _She had had to backtrack from her original position, in order to avoid being seen._ _They had had to reestablish contact with a more mainstream company in order to export their goods._ These lines aren't taken from the book, they're just my own imitations of what I mean. I will conservatively estimate that he uses "had had" at least 40 times but I'm certain that it's much, much more! Once I noticed it, every time it came up, it started to feel like someone was jabbing me in the ear with a pool cue. When I would come to it on a page I vowed to just say "had" one time and keep going! I still find it an interesting book.

[@whocrusader5179]

I wise I would see William Blake on a Doctor Who episode on TV next year maybe

[@QUANTUMJOKER]

Neil Penswick looks bizarrely like me in that photo you found of him.

[@MegaMarty1979]

Glad to see you are still doing these.

[@90RavenBlack]

The Yssgaroth did survive into the Faction Paradox universe, so 'The Pit' wasn't entirely forgotten. Of course, the writers for the Faction Paradox books are considerably more skilled than Penswick was when he wrote 'The Pit'. (It's pronounced Iss-Garoth, by the way.)

[@badwolf69420]

This is from the book: The Doctor pondered. ‘Yssgaroth…’ Blake repeated, ‘Yees-gar-oth?’

[@mayotango1317]

The horror, the horror.....

[@SouthPark333Gaming]

I love your videos so much! these reviews are some of the best on youtube

[@soarel325]

The "real historical person as companion" thing actually worked on Big Finish with Mary Shelley.

[@archive9796]

I marathoned series a few weeks ago and I love them seriously they are utterly brilliant

[@MrZombiejfk]

yay, glad you're continuing this!

[@Schoedsack]

I've enjoyed these Doctor Who Book Guides. I know you may have gotten these questions before, but I'll still ask them. Will you look at the Missing Adventures and the Declog books?

[@poparena]

I'll be looking at some for sure. Goth Opera, Cold Fusion, Decalog 3, those are totally getting videos, and I'll probably do more. Will I do ALL of them? I haven't decided yet. There's a lot of fun to be had, but it would also double my workload. We'll see.

[@Schoedsack]

Thanks for answering my question. I know Big Finish made audio versions of Cold Fusion and Original Sin. I hope they will do Lungbarrow. Do you think that would make a good audio play?

[@cartooningfanart]

Hi Poparena I simply love your amazing videos. You should really make more. They are just - if not more - funny as SS debris . PS: There is one Goosebumps book af R L Stine, which I would very much like to see your vertion of. Hope you will answer back to me. I might want to make a trade/ Deal with you to see that one :) Regards Cas.

[@bobbyshaddoe3004]

things like Goth opera and Cold Fusion without a doubt have to be covered, especially the latter as it ties in with the cartmel master plan

[@cameronmarnoch5236]

Listening to the Chapra description twice, it sounds like the shapechanger "Halted" his hoof, so didn't hit the servant. But it isn't great, and perhaps giving an extra line to explain would have been needed. Great review, by the way.

[@ShadowWingTronix]

Wasn't there a classic Who episode where The Doctor and his companions met a young H.G. Wells?

[@poparena]

...shiiiiiiit, Timelash, you're right. To be fair, nobody cares about Timelash. (I'll post a correction in the next one)

[@ShadowWingTronix]

Well, it does have one of the 15* different origins for the Loch Ness Monster in this franchise. (* number might be a slight exaggeration)

[@cameronmarnoch5236]

Also, Timelash treated the reveal as a bit of a joke, and so doesn't fit in with the NewWho style of story.

[@ShadowWingTronix]

It might not be exactly the same as New Who as far as reveal but it does qualify as a historic Companion, unlike for example Marco Polo who they just traveled with (by force mainly) or all the historic figures the Doctor claimed to have met, or the rare occasion we did see him meet one, like in The Gunfighters.

[@whocrusader5179]

Can you please show me a link for the video

[@charlesmento5968]

I've come to LOVE Benny from not liking her at all as written. That's mostly due to Lisa Bowerman, a really great person and director but greatest at bringing Benny to life. Really like Jason and Kaidatu, too.

[@benedictcooper3131]

Wonderful video essay on a much-maligned book. One thing I would say though (and I don’t know if this video came out before she did), is Philip Sandifer is now Elizabeth Sandifer. Otherwise, keep up the great work!

[@whocrusader5179]

Where did you find the photo of Penswick?

[@AndrewTimelord]

I look forward to your next review. I had very mixed opinions on Deceit, and I'm curious to see what you thought.

[@starwarsnerd100]

Ok the "7 planets could have been destroyed by a meteorite" thing was bad enough, but a "civil war"? As far as I can tell the planetary government isn't super villains or daleks. Are planet destroying super weapons really so common that the leaders of minor planetary systems routinely blow themselves up? I mean, if a random country on Earth suddenly exploded in nuclear fire, I don't think we'd just write if off as "Oh they probably just had a civil war and nuked themselves".

[@sauscony]

Thank you very much for this. I've always heard this one was bad, and it's great to see a good discussion of why. I will take your advice and skip this one.

[@archive9796]

Also loved you using the music from s1/s2 of New who it really fits it

[@SanFran51]

Neil Penswick is a man who thinks that if you keep adding stuff to it it will eventually work.... not realising that some ideas can end up being rubbish.

[@archive9796]

Ohhh can't wait for Deceit The cover always interested me

[@The_Lauren_Fox_Catalogue]

Hey, another awesome job. I like re-watching your videos on the good books, but it is interesting to re-watch one about the not-so good books. Anyway, I'm afraid I'd have to correct you on something that's pretty important. I don't know if she came out by the time this video was released, but that first name of Sandifer is her deadname, it's Elizabeth Sandifer. She's a transgender woman and has been re-releasing new editions of her essay books without her deadname, so I figured I should let you know. I don't know if you could correct this in the video somehow, but I think it's important to keep in mind for next time.

[@The_Lauren_Fox_Catalogue]

Additionally, Big Finish did give the Eighth Doctor Mary Shelley as a companion, done really well, so I think the whole real-life historical companion thing depends on the writer. Neil is not that writer.

[@poparena]

Hey there. Yeah, Sandifer came out about ten months after this video went up. I would correct it with annotations, but KZbin just recently removed that function. Obviously, any future references to her will be with her proper name.

[@badwolf69420]

Good, entertaining review which points out the flaws of the book without crossing the line in going after the author. I wouldn't recommend this this book to casual readers (same as true for many New Adventures), but I disagree about the impact of the book given the number of other books that referenced it, including major arc stories in both the Eight Doctor novels and early Big Finish audios. I would also say that it's worth reading to try to figure out why it inspired so much vitriolic hatred after it was published. The online discussions of it in the '90s were similar to certain KZbinrs today who hate-watch TV shows and attack the creators of the content as the worst people in the world. Another Virgin author even portrayed Neil Penswick as a nasty caricature in one of the later New Adventures, and to this day I don't think any apology was ever given for that. It was very surreal and fascinating, in retrospect.

[@nukirisame5298]

"Another Virgin author even portrayed Neil Penswick as a nasty caricature in one of the later New Adventures" Which one? I'm curious. Or will it be obvious when I read the book myself?

[@SanFran51]

It would probably give you a headache from trying to read it.

[@kaptnhowdy3269]

YAY! Great review. No wonder Penswick only wrote one book. He put all of his ideas in this one. Good thing I skipped it.

[@TIMESZ5]

Oh yes!

[@KenPurchase]

You would think with all those disparate ideas and concepts mashed together The Pit would at least be a crazy ride(something like Dave Stone's Sky Pirates), but it's just *so* poorly written it defies the reader to take any kind of pleasure in it. Every sentence feels like wading through thick tar and it's about as rewarding. Maybe Penswick would've improved if he'd been given another go with a decent editor, but it sounds like he found his niche in life and it wasn't a literary one as such.

[@spencerkoelle184]

So it sounds like this author is a well-intentioned amateur with a Guy From Your MFA complex. Bad book, good review. What an almighty mess. I think the novel-length fanfic I wrote in community college was tidier than this. >.o

[@jaidanielparker]

Some good ideas, way too many flawed ideas and woeful writing. I agree that Penswick comes across as someone who is very well read, but has no idea how to actually write. Like myself :) Definitely a low point for the New Doctor Who Adventures.

[@bendonatier]

first?