Post Office Horizon scandal victim lays into demolition of Post Office in Select Committee

Former sub-postmaster and founder of the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance Alan Bates gave evidence to the Business Select Committee this afternoon and didn't hold back on the long lasting effects of the Horizon IT scandal.
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[@belindablunderbus1365]

Anyone else just feel awkward that Gullis is even in the same room as someone of the calibre of Alan Bates?

[@williamgilchrist7113]

Gullies is a yob just like Anderson .

[@PatrickWhitaker-ls2cs]

100%

[@philpowell6915]

Yep.....

[@johnmorgan9191]

For those that do not realise who Gullis is, just listen to some of the morons questions and how he deals with answers. An example of the dregs of political society.

[@Sakkir_Stahma]

Never mind "awkward" I had to swallow a bit of my own puke. I then did it again when I saw the "Rothko" on the back wall

[@rogerbarton1790]

It takes a jury a couple of hours to convict, a judge 15 minutes to sentence and an hours drive to prison. If you're subsequently found not guilty it takes years to sort out.

[@scriptosaurusrex]

Amazon, a company notorious for how terrible they treat their staff, and how they bully them into doing what the corporation wants. Terrible idea. SMH.

[@neilwhite6305]

Boycott Amazon a wef corporation

[@colinlyne7399]

The Post Office fits well into their company then!

[@flankspeed]

Yeah, Bates was trolling there 🤣

[@Thunderer0872]

Just a first draft idea, the Post Office has been a dying format for mail and needs a big big change.

[@continental_drift]

Seemed more like sarcasm than a serious suggestion.

[@bobsurface908]

It doesn't need selling for £1. It doesn't need to be profitable. It needs to come back under public ownership and funded as the valuable public services it is. Services aren't SUPPOSED to be profitable!

[@Inflammasomes]

AusPost in Australia, is in public hands and is profitable for the federal government. Seems weird that the UK has made such a mess of their post office.

[@bobsurface908]

@@Inflammasomes Ah - that's because they sold most of it off into private hands, and private companies only care about maximum return for shareholders. They used to do two deliveries a day. Now you're lucky if you get two deliveries a week.

[@SassyTheSasquatch96]

Almost like hes being lobbied to say such awful things

[@michaelharrington5975]

It is under public ownership

[@martingreen2358]

Bingo, any money left over goes back into lowering prices.

[@mikeellis4345]

It’s clear Mr Bates was more than a match for the post office’s orchestrated mess. They very clearly underestimated him.

[@jonathanenglish2024]

This government are a Heap of Uriahs!

[@user-zj2yb1qt3d]

Fujitsu won’t pay a Penny as these tories have shared in it.

[@RabbitingAgain]

Why have we got to listen to the responsible questioning their victims What a farce. It's like a show put on for their own egos Why do we stomach this abuse of the abused by their abusers 😢

[@andym.6141]

With their track record to date £1 for the Post Office sounds a bit steep.

[@yc9129]

I still don't understand why the tax payers are footing the bill. Surly Fujitsu should be paying

[@jacky5768]

Its the same for the police or any government department, they mess up and tax payers pay for it

[@mikeellis4345]

Post office and therefore the state benefited from the money they forced post masters to pay. They PO also clearly knew about the horizon problems, but still prosecuted post masters anyway and in malicious terms. Fujitsu will be forced to contribute monies too.

[@user-jr9wy6tl5k]

The money the Sub-Postmasters paid to cover their losses went onto the Post Office balance sheet.

[@TheGeneReyva]

@@user-jr9wy6tl5k cover fake losses.

[@immortallvulture]

Fujitsu didn’t take sub postmasters to court or bully them into pleading guilty or paying fines, their system was crap but it was the post office who failed to do their investigations and auditing properly

[@BsktImp]

05:44 I couldn't agree less! Does he really think Amazon would treat subpostmasters better in terms of work conditions, terms of service, remuneration? Parking AWS to one side, if he thinks Amazon will be all fluffy and kind to subpostmasters then his fame has gone to his head. And it'll end up costing taxpayers just as much having to fund the Universal Credit payments and myriad of de facto benefits and other services needed to make up for pay that reflects neither the cost of living nor future inflation!

[@paulfarley8023]

Agree. Hats off to Alan for all his efforts. But that Amazon comment made me shiver. Amazon and good contract don’t belong in the same sentence.

[@webchimp]

Post office staff pissing in bottle behind the counter because the can't go to the toilet.

[@MrFoxxRaven]

I think it missing the point, everyone knows Amazon isn't great, so saying anything Amazon could offer in comparison to the post office is great shows how shit the post office is. At least Amazon isn't a government dept that has access to taxpayer funding, at least there's a separation between the entities. The less the government controls the better.

[@neilwhite6305]

Boycott tax payer aws contracts

[@luminousfractal420]

he doesnt seem like he has any passion for it. he should leave.

[@kokunaijin]

It's such a shame. My mum and Uncle worked/work for the Post Office and on the one hand, it's an institution that instills pride , a sense of comradery, has a long history and is worth preserving. However, if you scratch the surface, it's a corrupt boys club that eats it's own. My mum was injured by the shop steward at her sorting office throwing around a dirty great big rubber band ball. It basically ruined her life and they just swept it under the carpet. She was never properly compensated and I'd never get her to do anything about it. I dread to think how many stories like this are out there....

[@Steve14ps]

As a former shop steward all I can say that this is appalling. If the steward threw something at your mother, that is assault as well as bringing the union into disrepute, he is there to defend the rights of workers.

[@kokunaijin]

@@Steve14ps It was an accident so assault would be a stretch but it is shocking how they handled it. They made a huge rubber band ball about the size of a large watermelon, were bouncing it around and it smacked my mum in the back of her head where she was working. They shouted for her to get out the way which made her turn her head as it hit her which apparently made it worse. The worst bit is how they basically took advantage of her tendency to just say it's fine and not make a fuss. The guy even apparently turned up unannounced at her house to "check on her" when she was a single mum with two young kids at the time. Whatever the intention of that was, it only served to show that he could turn up at her house whenever he wanted. She was still suffering from it 20 years later. They "let her" take sick leave for a while but she never got anything out of it. Sorry, I'm knackered so not writing coherently but the whole thing seemed like the boys club covering their arses.

[@Steve14ps]

@@kokunaijin I understand what imply. You say it was an 'accident', but the Health and Safety at Work Act has provisions for dangerous practices and practices likely to cause injury. If not assault it would be deemed unintentional or reckless, ie no intent to harm the victim. Sorry to hear of this.

[@NurulHuda-xj8ob]

Still no payment of even the amount wrongfully taken in fines?

[@paulwright9749]

Why are they buggering about with offers - all sounds like PPI again, give them all £1m each and pay all their legal fees. Get a bloody shift on and sort this!

[@chrisfell5073]

For the long standing claims I don't think even £2 million would cover it

[@bubsybrown8308]

Strange editing, I've seen the same clip twice in a row around 5/6 mins in

[@BoredomIncarnate1]

I thought this when I first started watching the channel, but it's just something they do, presumably to pique your interest. They usually start off with a clip of the most shocking/surprising thing at the start, with it being played in full later in the video.

[@mharris7380]

No not Amazon with their track record.

[@dancecommando]

I was with them... Until he talked about selling *post office to amazon. No, we need nationalisation and reform, don't be a neoliberal.

[@kriissyy09ify]

Post Office and Royal Mail aren't the same. Royal Mail is no longer owned by the Government, while the Post Office is

[@dancecommando]

@@kriissyy09ify I miss typed, sorry, that's what I meant

[@arghjayem]

@@kriissyy09ifyyep. And selling Royal Mail was a dumb move!

[@owstonlad3859]

Can we first start with the railways re: nationalisation????

[@razielthered]

@@kriissyy09ify Renationalise the RM and pay the capitalists nothing.

[@martinbrown1881]

It looks as if they booked this room in a hurry. You can see where they've been experimenting with tester paints on the back wall. No wonder they can't agree on compensation if they can't decide what colour to paint the room!

[@Smokyjohnson1983]

If we are talking about inequality then why was it so rapid to prise the money away from sub postmasters incorrectly but now it’s a slow progress to pay it back. Like Mr Bates says, that is not compensation, it is financial redress. The compensation claims should come after that is resolved

[@anthonyseye]

Amazon. Don't think he thought that one through.

[@gavinstuart6704]

he probably thinks anything will be better then goverment through his lens

[@gileshumphry]

​@@gavinstuart6704 if the solution is to privatise the PO it must be the same logic be to nationalise Fujitsu.

[@camf7522]

2:03 nailed it, financial redress. Compensation for harm is separate.

[@peterwright9546]

Well he came up with four ideas, but selling the Post Officer for a pound will not be taken up, you can bet the other ideas will be watered down as well, so the post office will still be loaded to the eyeballs with paper pushers.

[@colingreen6950]

Every day brings Scandalous news to " OUR COUNTRY " , alas , with no end in sight . Not a word of protest from MPs ( our Representatives )

[@JoBroughton-yw7un]

Mr Bates the voice of common sense knowledge and sincerity. Watch and learn tory MP'S.

[@user-sd3ik9rt6d]

Expect Mr Bates to get a job with Amazon, Amazon would gut the service.

[@chrisfell5073]

Its amazing that there is years worth of discussions and investigations of what went wrong 100 millions paid. Yet the people who need the money have still not been pAid.

[@vickydimitriou6156]

How long has this dragged on? Years years years, get on and pay these poor people a proper amount of money plus bloody interest for waiting 😠

[@SkillBuilder]

That poor girl to the left as we view it, of Alan Bates. She was imprisoned and you can see what all this has done to her. I sincerely hope that she finds some peace. She should not have to go through this.

[@Andy-ii3pj]

Absolutely classic, loads of talk and minimal action. We live in a world where there is so much talk, and people do so little action

[@colinmelling6369]

On the contrary. Most constituents would be very happy if you sold post office to a company who could run it fairly and properly. Failure can’t be allowed to continue.

[@kjr2868]

I think Alan Bates hit the nail on head with his statement, ' ... it is the culture of the UK Post office...' that is problem. In my words, ' Unless you change the culture within the organization the PO will remain a mill-stone around the neck of the UK Tax payers'! Changing governments and CEOs didn't effect a thing! As he radically suggests, if the Government can't or is unwilling to change the culture then sell it! On that point I agree 100% with him! So seeing a Cech billionaire buy the Royal Mail suggest to me government are slowly implementing this suggestion!!!

[@derekwarner1491]

If he thinks Amazon give good deals to workers.......

[@crosswhite17]

I have great sympathy for Alan Bates and the subpostmasters. They have suffered too much and should be paid their dues. However I cannot agree that the post office should be sold to someone like Amazon. Alan Bates was once proud to work as a subpostmasters, this pride was taken away from him, in somewhat by the Post Office, but mainly by one of the large private companies, Fujitsu.

[@jakehyams8659]

The postmaster were failed but Fujitsu but prosecuted and persecuted by the post office. Don't rewrite his story to suit yourself

[@allsearpw3829]

MR. BATES FOR PRIME MINISTER , WHERE EVERY ONE IS ACCOUNTABLE , A man with a lot of moral fiber , which is lacking in the management of Corporate UK .

[@glennburton8487]

Anybody who’s ever been in a Crown Tribunal hearing DWP etc (as opposed to a Court) will have no surprise as to how these posties were treated.

[@OneAndOnlyMe]

He's absolutely right. Post Office should be sold off to someone like Amazon - a company that is better at logistics than even DHL and UPS.

[@sleepinglioness5754]

I certainly hope they don't have the Post Office in charge of any money to be given to the people who have been falsely accused.

[@ianbarr5110]

Get all the lawers OUT. Then you will see progress.

[@user-uc8kr1pl6b]

Amazon, seriously. Fine if you dont mind losing the last of your privacy and endless amounts of spam mail!

[@neilwhite6305]

Amazon a horrific corporation

[@luminousfractal420]

not to mention being limited to 3 products because they dont want to sell you the stuff that costs money to move around. (i set up my amazon in the uk and moved back to puerto rico, i get all the products they hide from the locals here. im like a second level amazon 😂, but yeah its getting worse, less and less product options. just wait for the 3monthly amazon post boat to turn up with whatever it felt like giving you from your mail 😂

[@camf7522]

Make the Royal Mail take back the PO services.

[@newtron1]

Blind leading the blind!

[@c0mbat15]

What are the govt doing? I doubt you'll find many tax payers who don't want to make this right. So make it right and fast!

[@user-bu9nb8wr6e]

If Amazon can make a profit out of it then so can the government. It ain’t hard thicko

[@annettewalter2273]

It is money that was stolen from these people. Not compensation

[@helmutreichart9081]

Why not put Mr Bates in charge of the Post Office?

[@carcav13]

Thank you, ITV. Now get on and give these PostMasters £ I,500,000.

[@Garwfechan-ry5lk]

Mr Bates a very Brave and intelligent man.

[@adam2403]

It blows my mind that a worker who's been through the grinder with executives thinks executives will be ANY better under privatisation. I wish him the best, but holy sh*t, I would love for him to think on that specific opinion of his a bit more.

[@caffs7777]

I think he is just done with the Post Office. Years of having to put up with them, I too would probably be in the same mindset. Can't blame the dude for hating them so much, he would even prefer for them to be run by a horrible company like Amazon. I might be wrong, but I do not really think it probably runs much deeper than that.

[@humorpalanta]

It is not about executives but about how easier it is to achieve things in a private company and how these companies are held accountable by the government agencies if they screw up. However holding a government agency accountable for something... Yeah, well, good luck...

[@adam2403]

@@humorpalanta "How easier it is to achieve things in a private company" Deluded.

[@caffs7777]

@@humorpalanta very true. Good point!

[@isotropisch82]

Imagine having to answer questions from Gullis....

[@kriissyy09ify]

Has he been living under a rock for the past decade?

[@mro8947]

No he only sings for people who pay him to sing😂😂😂

[@joisagirlsname]

He's been living in a nightmare for the past 20 years. His perspective is what it is.

[@AndrewLuke]

'Has he been living under a rock' is a ridiculous comment to make. Kriisy, don't teach your elders to suck eggs.

[@andrewh2u]

We need to see Post Office executives doing jail time for this and heavy compensation for their victims and the families of lost victims.

[@TheFunkyKettle]

Keep going Alan, you are a hero and a true legend Sir.

[@sottonk]

I'm sure he's a smart guy but selling to Amazon for any amount of money is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.

[@luminousfractal420]

tjey just want the words out there so it helps normalize the idea of it failing. he needs to do one.

[@luminousfractal420]

amazon...great idea 🤦 nothing like a monopoly full of investors in the middle to add some extra costs. do they think middlemen are invisible to the public?

[@stevemulroy1417]

Post Office should not be contesting these convictions. It’s been made quite clear this was a stich up between the PO and Fujitsu. Moreover, Alan Bates is right, this is not compensation, this is money owed, money taken from these victims of this mess to repay the ‘stolen’ funds from the PO as a result of Horizon being implemented in the first place. Compensation comes on top of…. Reputations were destroyed, homes and saving were lost, lives were lost.. that’s what the compensation is for…

[@adriancoe2328]

Get Rid Of The Post office Dealing with this Matter It's Easy To Se Ppl Are Well Pissed off Get Rid !!!

[@ianpurcell4445]

So we will now go away and file it

[@itsverygreen532]

Mr Bates is spot on, the tax payer would be very happy with his suggestion.

[@mauricetucker8754]

They can't run a post office with commercial taking their customers conservative ment to by for business ?

[@PhilTheProf]

In English, please.

[@michaelflood5951]

The Post Office is owned by us the taxpayers of the UK. It is nominally run on our behalf by a government department who insist on operating it as a profit making business rather than as a public service. I believe it needs a replacement management structure with a business aim of covering costs rather than earning profit for profit’s sake.

[@ypeveldhuis4527]

Dear govt, the mischievious Post Office’s treacle treading trechery should have disqualified them from looking after their victims by now. Show teeth, take over, sort it out and pay up, it is not your money anyway. Delayed justice= no justice. Victims need justice, too much to ask?

[@davearmstrong2296]

Selling the Post Office to Amazon makes total sense. It would make it very efficient, cost us all less and as Amazon already deliver so many parcels straight to our houses and give us texts and emails to say when it will and when it has been delivered, it would being the Post Office up to date.

[@davekeith576]

They don't want to pay that is that ,, nothing els .

[@peejaygeee]

It is obvious to anyone half intelligent that Mr Bates was giving an example of what could be done. Why is it that an item ordered before midnight can be delivered the next day for free but to send same item to a friend ‘First Class’ post will often take up to three days and cost £4.80? Like so many things that we led the world in it’s all gone as a result of sell offs, bad management ant massive greed. Everything from gas, electricity and water to most of our major industries and a great deal of it under ‘Conservative’ control of the country has been sold to foreign owners who sell off the assets and use the brand name. Just follow the money!

[@LimeyRedneck]

"Inequality of arms"‽ in THIS country due to huge inequalities of wealth, surely not!!

[@twilliamspro]

Absolutely love they ask Alan Bates for his thoughts then immediately make a joke out of his response He's right

[@Seansaundersdecorating]

Why don’t they just put Alan bates in charge of sorting this mess out,he’s clearly the only one capable of sorting it out.

[@GWills-ys6rd]

ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING - WHO'S NEXT? - HMRC?

[@DJDJ-fl2nv]

This seems all about those with power and influence, as being able to use the legal system to obfuscate the issues, then employ or instruct legal representation to further delay process and stop the issues getting into the public domain, they seem to act with impunity to avoid their part in this scandal ... money, power and influence over the ability of the courts desire to seek the truth, who have been complicit in this entire issue...a legal system full of inequality and determined not to look at their part in this miscarriage of justice, the issue is now in plain sight...it was a joined up approach from courts, corporations and government to throw the Sub Post Masters under the bus while all looked the other way....all while taking ‘fat cat salaries ‘ that allows the privilege-of having money enough to dodge the issues...something denied to Sub Post Masters...

[@dougaz10]

What a load of nonsense questions theMPs have asked. Facts are needed not opinions.

[@flankspeed]

Fair play: excellent representation. One can only hope it emerges as policy.

[@kieranclarges2514]

This whole thing seems to be "How do we say the problem here is privatization, Without saying it's the fault of privatisation"...

[@Holismleith]

What? - that sell it off? This is the outcome of privatisation

[@ftumschk]

... at least, the outcome of trusting a private sector company to run their IT services.

[@Exiled.New.Yorker]

They're sitting there playing pass the hot potato in front of a FREAKIN HUGE ROTHKO that would probably cover a quarter of the bill.

[@WillOM-bi7so]

Restructure the PO and Alan is the NEW Head... Make it right..

[@BoredomIncarnate1]

Has Bates gone off the deep end, he does know how Amazon treat their staff, right? You'd get terrible contracts, everything cut to the marrow and job losses to automation. What it needs to be slowly transitioned to online only with out of town operations, as the primary users of physical Post Office branches shuffle off the coil.

[@PhilTheProf]

That's right, focus on one thing he says wrong. Just ignore the 25 year fight to bring this to the public forum.

[@BoredomIncarnate1]

@@PhilTheProf I think they should get their compensation, no argument there. But when he's putting forward the stupid idea of privatising the Post Office (when privatisation never works), I look at the bigger picture, it's 700 people and their families or everyone who currently works for and uses the Post Office, pretty obvious which one is more important in the grand scheme. A man with stupid ideas, yet still deserving of compensation, but if he spouting nonsense I'm less likely to feel that he should get it.

[@anthonywilson8998]

As usual rather than deal with matters. In a timely appropriate fashion. This govmt delays and prevaricates. Until it gets to an emergency level. It also then happens when the govmt and country is broke.,with massive debts and massive debt replacement. .That then results in policies to delay money outgoing. Resistance. Is borne rather than speeding up expenditure.

[@DavidJohnson-yg8qm]

The MP idea for Postmaters to become political prospects is brilliant. They could definitely do a better job running this current sham of government.

[@paulmorris8775]

I see Mr Bates and the post office 2 With exactly the same disgusting results

[@WorkerDroid]

Simple solution is to remove the Post Office from any part of the claims process. Perhaps high court should set up a claims register based on injury..ie. imprisonment shall be recommended at 2000£ per day, moneys made up by SPM shall be recompensed at 2:1. Reputational damage set at 100k£????and so on…….Government office pays claims and government recoups all fund from PO, as they see fit. The UK government is the sole shareholder of the PO? Fix it! It’s your mess.

[@kaywoolls928]

What a hero you are Mr. Bates Bless you

[@Joseph-jy5lz]

He is a very bright individual

[@Thunderer0872]

Yes subsector of Amazon 'Royal Mail Amazon' or Amazon Royal Mail' or DHL or any other company etc, keep the stamps etc but take it away from the current clowns in charge. Time there was a change in the postal service.

[@BigHenFor]

It was imagined then that Post Office Limited (POL) would be sold alongside its parent company Royal Mail Group Limited (RMG), but nobody wanted to buy it. The excuse was at the time, if I remember correctly, was that POL's Employee Pension Fund deficit from POL management taking too many pension contribution holidays, put off potential buyers. With hindsight, that couldn't have been an issue, as that was the case with RMG, and buyers wanted that. So, not to derail RMG's privatisation, POL was separated from it in April 2012, with HM government retaining its ownership, with the hope of sorting out it's problems and selling it off. (That can be seen in how POL's Limited Company share structure was amended from 1 share to 51,000 shares in preparedness for its privatisation by government.) Google the "House of Commons Library Research Briefing: The Post Office" by Harriet Clark and Lorna Booth. It's on the House of Commons Library website for download as a PDF for free. It's the same brief these MPs would have read and it confirms what I told you is true.

[@gmac9667]

Sell the post office to Amazon for a quid? What's wrong with this guy. Privatisation has failed at every opportunity.

[@paulukjames7799]

True and Amazon No no no

[@andrewlong6438]

I could see Amazon running Royal Mail with its network of delivery drivers and the website replacing the Post Office network. It may well be more expensive than posting a letter today but RM/Post Office can’t keeping on losing money as they do without a change in its business model.

[@gmac9667]

​@@andrewlong6438it's a public service not a business. It's essential for keeping the country in touch instead of only the most profitable areas.

[@markbullen5989]

I wonder how much the painting cost

[@user-nx8ii4ef7f]

The only things the postman brings me are pizza adverts and TV threats!

[@georgejohnson7591]

That's the Royal mail, not the Post Office, two seperate organisations.

[@user-nx8ii4ef7f]

Quite right, cheers!@@georgejohnson7591

[@simontaylor2319]

Talk, Talk, Talk.....get on with it!

[@BeardedWebb]

Selling it to Amazon isn't a bad idea.

[@2009kronos]

Selling to Amazon is a really bad idea. Sub postmasters won’t get a penny out of Amazon

[@chrisbirmingham5132]

I have nothing but admiration for Alan Bates's fight against the truly awful post office management, but adding another layer to Amazon's oligarchic control of the economy would be a terrible idea.

[@neilwhite6305]

Boycott Amazon a wef corporation

[@luminousfractal420]

i cant. they now supply everything on this island (puerto rico), trust me you dont want that. communities in ruin, barely a local shop to support, just chain stores and more chain stores providing the cheapest most profitable goods. just wait until the clotjes in the stores all become seconds and unwanted usa stock. thats what awaits. i hear its already started with the food. colonialism.

[@hailstone2554]

Alan Bates scares the hell out of the government and FUJITSU

[@getheroutofthetruck]

Renationalise for £1.

[@jakeblair4215]

Erm maybe just simply ban privitisation. The root cause is.... privitisation, capitalism and free market ideology

[@weeksy79]

The editor for these videos makes me question my own sanity.

[@misterbonzoid5623]

Never mind all that; what is up with that painting?

[@luminousfractal420]

tens of thousands for an exploration of tone. tax money hard at work.

[@jeff__w]

4:11 and 5:12 The clip plays and then replays, obviously a mistake.

[@luminousfractal420]

thats the format of this channel (american tv), repeat everything twice cos were too stupid for once. 😂 watch any american documentary or science vid and youll see it on every one. also means more revenue for joe.

[@Pathofplenty]

Counter argument: Stupid questions and answers that are apathetic. That’s what they said about the railways. Nah mate, get your payout and retire.

[@VeronicaKingsley-by9nc]

sell it to Betty Brown for a £1 -at 91 she still better than them all - and has vision to see how to make it work.

[@johnchestnutt6892]

Here in the states the postal service is not funded or run by the federal government because any entity that is will be corrupt, non-productive and ruined...like y'all are dealing with now. If your feds/post office wanted to compensate the deserving folks then it would have been done. I know all the lawyers have been getting paid in a timely manner!

[@alexander_strachan]

Not relevant, but I really like his voice...