Powercommander V Autotune switch behaviour

This video shows how the Autotune switch works - if you install one of course! - on a Powercommander V. It proves that when you turn the Autotune off, it not only stops actively listening to the Air/Fuel ratio and applying adjustments, but it also ignores what is already in your trim table.

[@KaldekBoch]

@Aldivine LOL, I fitted it myself. All you need is a switch from an auto parts store and wire it into the "switch" sockets on the Powercommander V. Then you just reconfigure the Powercommander so that the Autotune is turned on and off by the switch. I mounted my switch on the inner fairing panel under the left-side handlebar.

[@x0atm3alx]

You have to accept auto tune trims first then click send map to enable the adjustments it made unless you keep auto tune running

[@KaldekBoch]

@xphilip No, not a bug! It's handy to have the switch because it means you can turn Autotune on when you get different octane fuel, or are riding in different altitudes. Building a map with the Autotune is harder than they say, because if you decelerate on anything other than 0% throttle, the Autotune make bad trim adjustments. It is much better to get a custom map done on a dyno for your bike, and use the Autotune to make temporary trims to that map when riding.

[@spasmpete]

The Auto Tune kit can be configured to run and correct at all times or by using the "map switch port" on the PCV. You can set it up so that you can switch back and forth between the tuning modes and the base map settings. You can also configure the Auto Tune kit to wait until the bike is at a certain operating temperature before beginning to make adjustments.

[@KaldekBoch]

That's true! I should have clarified that, but the purpose of the video was to show how the switch affects the values in the autotune trim table. Also, the problem with accepting trims is that they better be right before you accept them because after that you can't go back to your original map unless you have a backup. This is completely different to the usual notion of "trim" on a closed loop ECU. There should be short term and long term trims, both of which should be able to be cleared.

[@KaldekBoch]

@alykarate Engine temperature is a built in feature of the Power Commander V - you only need to tap into the engine coolant sensor wire (this is documented in the installation instructions for your bike). Unfortunately it does not work with Power Commander 3.

[@KaldekBoch]

I'd love to, except I busted the O2 sensor when I removed the headers last year and haven't replaced it. I've actually learned a lot more about engine tuning since then, so I should actually buy another one and do that video. However the *other* problem is that I'm probably about to sell my current bike and trade up to something new, which I probably won't bother tuning for a while.

[@KaldekBoch]

@brooksidemech Autotune alters your fuel on-the-go based on feedback from a wideband O2 sensor. You tell the PCV what air/fuel ratio you want to hit and the Autotune does the rest. You can use this to make a good tune better, but it's very hard to make a custom tune from nothing.

[@KaldekBoch]

@Aldivine You may need to upgrade the PCV firmware. I had to do this to mine to get AFR readings to work. Also check the lights on the Autotune box. If one of them does not stop flashing after 10 seconds, your Autotune O2 sensor has failed. Both lights need to be on all the time and not flashing.

[@jonnan99]

Yes, I wouldnt be comfortable using autotune permanent. If you're basing your tune of a zero map it's always easy to go back. Also, if your trim values max out at 10%, you need to accept the trim and let autotune do its thing again to dial the tune in further. But I think we are on the same page :) Thumbs up for the vid.

[@KaldekBoch]

Yep, that matches my experience with my bike since 2002. Weird problems occur, no error codes ever logged. If I had the time, I'd skill myself up and start a bike Fuel Injection diagnostics business. Seems there's very few people out there doing it, but with the right tools (mainly a decent lab scope) you can diagnose anything.

[@KaldekBoch]

@kpandinu Sure, if your dyno tune was accurate then your Autotune with settings around the +10 and -10 can make the bike run better at cruise. But you need to make sure the target AFR values are the best for your bike and try not to tune in throttle positions which don't work well (such as 2% throttle for example). It all depends on the bike really.

[@KaldekBoch]

@xphilip I replied directly to you as I'm getting errors when I try to post here! But in essence you are correct.

[@KaldekBoch]

For permanent tuning purposes, yes. However this is only recommended if you are in the middle of building a permanent tune. For on-going small trims you should not accept them, and indeed should set the maximum trim values to a small range (say, +10/-10).

[@Byrds1967]

I got a switch with two leads. What ports of Power Commander to I wire these two leads into? All my ports already have wires in them.

[@KaldekBoch]

@toyscostmoney10 It's possible for the sensors to fail and go fully lean. Good way to test this is to unscrew it from the headers and wrap it in a cloth which has been heavily sprayed/soaked with carburettor cleaner. This will keep out the oxygen and it should read fully rich (9 or so) when you hook up the laptop. If it goes rich then suddenly fully lean (17 or more) then it's a dud. Just make sure you spray enough carby cleaner on the rag otherwise the test won't work.

[@KaldekBoch]

@claas90017 It will give you a bad map because when you decelerate with an open throttle, it will tune the engine still as if you were on the gas. No system should alter the fuel map when decelerating. Nobody ever slaps their throttle shut *every* time they decelerate, so the Autotune keeps getting its knickers in a twist. Folks have fitted vacuum-controlled switches in-line so that the Autotune is deactivated whenever intake vacuum is high.

[@mtncrvr1]

Smart Solution

[@KaldekBoch]

@speedy81304 That's cool, but what did you put in the Autotune AFR tables? I'm assuming you didn't use the defaults.

[@Rangerscott69]

So when using an auto tune on the viffer, do you unhook the stock two O2 sensors?

[@PhilipThomas-xphilip]

Kal thank you for the reply. So if i understand you correctly, you are advocating starting with a base map (whether custom or not) and then only turning on auto-tune when switching octane or other mechanical change (eg air filter) and then only using it to build trims by making full power runs. Other than these conditions you turn it off because non 0% throttle decelerations create less than perfect AF mixtures. Is this correct? Many thanks - Philip . ..

[@ronaldcisneros6171]

Hello, I have a 2009 YAMAHA FZ6R, my bike has 4 cylinders and the 1.2 I get cylinders on top of the screen, as do I get cylinders 1,2,3,4 appear?

[@KaldekBoch]

Hey mate, sorry I didn't see this post until today (must have been busy and ignore the email notification). Did your bike ever get fixed because mine still does this on and off - 2006 model motor and ECU. I've got Staintunes, and also Motad headers.

[@KaldekBoch]

@Rangerscott69 Yeah absolutely you need to disconnect them and put O2 eliminators on the plugs.

[@ruubern]

hey have you actually fely any diffrence on the bike after installing autotune? i already have a pcv, but thinking of buying a autotune. im only riding on the streets, not on the track.

[@KaldekBoch]

Fair call mate. Thinking of a BMW K1300R myself. Shame they're so expensive.

[@KaldekBoch]

@spasmpete Yeah I was using the switch in the video.

[@wowerman]

hi,my thinking is that pc3 or pc5 has got custom map for your bike and is connected to O2 sensor,so reads values and...what is happening next?is pc changing fuel/air ratio depending what is read from sensor?or are maps in pc just fixed and do not change when riding?is autotune better to install just to read values from sensor and throttle position and adjust ration depending of air conditions?

[@KaldekBoch]

@toyscostmoney10 Just to confirm, did you unhook your PAIR system? Autotune will NOT work at all if PAIR is connected because it makes the Autotune sensor see very lean readings. Bikes with PAIR and factory O2 sensors close the PAIR valves off when the bike goes into closed loop (listening to the O2 sensor) mode.

[@KaldekBoch]

@toyscostmoney10 You can install your own switch for a couple of bucks, just mount it on the fairing somewhere. But yes, ultimately the switch is indeed pointless if you have your Autotune running how you like it!

[@kpandinu]

I taught that you leave you autotune connected and adjusting all the time? is this right? My bike was dynoned but i taught that if i get the autotune it would work better because it will automatically adjust the fueled while riding. depending on the air temp etc. Am i right or not?

[@matts351]

hi cal again mate i bought my new vfr800 last november the second day i was riding in town i was in second gear riding along than it started to die and splutter then came good now its been doing this quite often so my dealer fitted staintune pipes and power commander v the problem is still there the bike has now been at the dealer for 3 weeks trying to find the problem but they cant it only happens between 0 to half throttle any idears mate im desperate they cant find the problem thanks matty b

[@KaldekBoch]

@KaldekBoch Hmm, so now I'm NOT getting errors? Whatever! I recommend anyone interested visits the "VFR Discussion" forums and searches on Autotune and specifically the vacuum-controlled switch for enabling and disabling Autotune.

[@alykarate]

how do you display the engine temperature on screen ...... and is it possible to do so using powercommander 3 usb ??

[@wowerman]

so what is benefit of installing auto tune?economy or smoother engine work?

[@PhilipThomas-xphilip]

Cal - hello. Is this a bug? Does this mean that you must always leave the unit 'on'? I am considering the autotune and was told to turn it off and disconnect the sensor once i had a map - this would contradict that statement. What have you learnt since making this video? Thank you.

[@jonnan99]

Yeah you're supposed to transfer the trim values to the map =)

[@KaldekBoch]

@wowerman The Autotune adjust the fuel based on values from the O2 sensor as you ride. It tries to hit a specific Air/Fuel ratio defined by you. It essentially slightly alters the map inside the PC5 so that the air/fuel ratio you want is reached. It is very hard to tune for power this way, so the best use for Autotune is to use it to tune for fuel economy when cruising.

[@bucang1]

I already install autotune but error code 24 was appear. Mine yamaha xj6 divertion. Any idea how to solve the problem...

[@matts351]

thats true but i'll stick to inline 4s from now on never had a problem with any of them ive had my cbf is a awesome machine

[@matts351]

HI cal no it never got fixed 9 months i put up with it got so sick of it i sold it got a cbf 1000 now bloody awesome

[@robertwestergard8450]

you did not accept the trim

[@CasebyCaseIntuitive]

Years later I assume you found the “accept trims” option so that it would add those values to the actual fuel table to attempt to maintain that without using extra or less duty from the auto tune allowing it to naturally run at your targets.

[@KaldekBoch]

Actually years later I can't stand the idea of Power Commanders. For me now, it's either full ignition and fuel map, or GTFO!

[@CasebyCaseIntuitive]

@@KaldekBoch I hear Fueltech makes a good product. My pcv and accessories work well with what I do. No complaints here

[@KaldekBoch]

@@CasebyCaseIntuitive sorry if I sounded jaded. I've been on cars for a few years now and learned a lot about tuning in that time. There's only so much that piggyback systems can do, you know? Now what I'd *like* to do is boost a VFR and put it on E85 like I've done with my (turbo) car. Heck, even just supporting E85 on my K1300R would make it insane (13:1 compression ratio motor).

[@CasebyCaseIntuitive]

@@KaldekBoch Now you're talking my kind of set up!

[@KaldekBoch]

@@CasebyCaseIntuitive Yep. Plus bike videos are what people want to watch (not that I do this for income or anything, just a hobby). Problem is peak career age, plenty of money but no time. What little I do have is still going into various things on the car.

[@claas90017]

Boy,so If I'm understanding this right,the auto tune isn't worth it then? Best bet is to just get it dyno tuned? Or does this auto tune let you save the map it has made for you? I still don't understand why the auto tune cant just be left on 100% of the time? Ppl tell me if you leave it on it will give you a bad map, I don't understand how that could be if its always tuning??

[@matts351]

That the thing cal it wasn't putting out error codes ever it would idle on 4 cylinders all good then it would drop to 3 then on to 2 cylinders the rear two cylinders were shutting down even with the computer pluged in it was saying it was fine then you give it a good rev then pop its back on all four for a while not to worry its bloody gone now

[@Byrds1967]

Where do you get an Auto Tune switch? I don't see one on the website.....

[@edluck3323]

Any switch will do. You just wire it up to the ports on the Power Commander and configure those to act as the switch in the Powercommander software.

[@Byrds1967]

Edward Luck Cool, thanks!

[@Byrds1967]

Edward Luck One more question. I have the Auto Tune with the dual 02 sensors. Most maps are configured for the single 02 sensor. So do I just activate the dual 02 sensor option in the Auto Tune software and copy and paste the same map to each cylinder?

[@eivad1]

can u do this with turbo bike

[@eivad1]

guess not

[@claas90017]

@KaldekBoch Thanks, makes scents

[@KaldekBoch]

@toyscostmoney10 Basically this means that the AFR values provided by default are wrong for your bike. This is essentially the biggest problem with the Autotune - Dynojet give you a predefined AFR target and everyone assumes it will work for their bike. Tuning for power and driveability means finding the right AFR for *that* bike at *that* rpm and throttle position, and maybe even *that* gear. The Autotune needs to be treated as a blank canvas for an artist to work with. Go find an artist!

[@Blanchy10]

Should you not have accepted trims then hit "Send Map" It should then be using the new map wether switched on or off.

[@mattgrady9061]

I thought the same thing

[@8142jpc]

that would be correct

[@cacasplat3]

i'm not 100% sure, but i think u needed to clik "save map" before you turned off the auto tune. the changes the auto tune make are only applied to your base permanently after you have accepted the trims..........i could be wrong though........

[@tonypham5491]

cacasplat3 b

[@ronaldcisneros6171]

IS THAT NOT ME SHOWING respective cylinders ON TOP, MY MOTORCYCLE IS 4 CYLINDERS AND APPEARS AS IF IT WERE ME 2 CYLINDERS, CYLINDERS THAT IS MARK 2 instead of 4. MY MOTORCYCLE IS A 2009 FZ6 YAMAHA

[@TheMeiruntu]

check out Marthy exhausts on google he specialises in fz6r's, I own a 2013 fz6r myself

[@Markitos203]

well,... i guess i'm getting a bazzaz unit....

[@TheMeiruntu]

14.7 is right on the edge of what your bikes engine will take, it maybe alright for a car but a bike you will burn your engine at that ratio dynojet has found that for the best compromise of fuel mileage and throttle response for the cruise range is a target AFR of 13.4 - 14.0 for all other ranges 12.8-13.4 seems to work best with most sport bikes performing best at 13.2 and that info is coming from dynojet itself, dynojet also states not to make your bike any leaner than 14.7.

[@matts351]

there bloody crap mate drove me round the bend

[@KaldekBoch]

FYI, I bought a K1300R. You only live once, eh.

[@KaldekBoch]

It wouldn't be so bad if there were any freaking bike mechanics who knew how to do EFI diagnostics. "Take it to the dealer" they say. For what? So some 20 year old dipshit can read the bloody ECU error codes? Motorbike ECU codes are absolutely USELESS and tell you nothing. Cars are way, way better at diagnostics (read up on OBD-II)