Powerstroke 6.0 - Is the block heater causing injector cup cracks?

[@toomanytoys]

This is speculation of why there may be an occasional issue with head cracks, fuel in coolant. A sample of one is a poor judge. To get a better handle on if it is a cause, people would have to note the heater element's position with a failure. It is just weird that it's typically at injectors 3 and 5.

[@matthewbattie1022]

Where I come from you really need a block heater. I believe the cracks are caused by coolant flow problem within the heads that is the worst on the passenger side. When you install a coolant return system and delete the EGR, the cracks simply don't happen. The 6.0 is one of my favorite engines but in my opinion they have one fatal flaw. The EGR exposes exhaust gases that can reach over 900 degrees to directly exchange heat with engine coolant. This is simply a foolish design flaw as even the best engine coolant breaks down at less than half those temperatures. The EGR delete is a must on a 6.0. The second greatest upgrade to the 6.0 is the remote oil cooler. I have seen 6.0 engines get these two upgrades at low miles and go on to reaching over 700K problem free. Another consideration is the Mishimoto radiator. The solid Mishimoto's are a great upgrade for the 6.0 and the cost makes it well worth it. I love your channel. I am a new subscriber that will be watching all of your stuff. Great work

[@toomanytoys]

Matthew, sorry for the late response. Something is going on with the left side. One person in the comments (not sure if this video) said he had a pickup bed of passenger side heads with cracks. When I put my borescope into the cooling jackets, there was no significant difference from side to side, except for the block heater. But when you look at the 6.4L block, with the different restriction plates at the coolant intake ports, and then look at the changes they made to the head gasket, opening the lower coolant orifices at the center of the head, they were changing the flow paths. But there isn't what I would call a radical change in the basic cooling jacket design from 6.0 to 6.4. I'm not personally worried about the EGR cooler overheating the coolant as long as the oil cooler flows well. There should not be an extended dwell time for the coolant to get overheated, but that's a guess, as I've never measured the outflow temp. I've had discussions about the coolant recirculation kits. I did something similar, but not as extensive, and I will have a video coming. It's an interesting subject.

[@matthewbattie1022]

@@toomanytoys I think your right about everything except the EGR. It's just poor design to expose exhaust gases to engine coolant. I can get at least 700,000 miles out of a 6.0 if I delete the EGR early by welding pucks at both ends. Unfortunately I know deleting the EGR is illegal in some areas but I actually get cleaner exhaust then you would with a poorly operating EGR, which is the calling card of the 6.0. I have been watching your videos and I am soo very impressed by your techniques and attention to detail. I especially appreciated your videos where you lapped the heads. Lapping the heads is soo important with the 6.0 heads. I also liked your video on the grounding and wiring for the batteries though I will have to watch them again to fully understand everything you said. You are a true scholar and you have the common sense that seems to be lacking in our modern world. I wish you ran the diesel engineering plant for Ford. I also hope you are still selling your engine pull brackets because I really want one when I get paid. Thankyou for putting your work on video so that others may benefit from your expertise.

[@MacJank7]

False... I have a 2003 6.0 with coolant return lines, deleted and after an engine reseal and new UCF heads in three weeks I had diesel in my coolant. They sent a new set of heads under warranty and I did a full rebuild this time...I mean FULL. 70k later (just a month ago) you guessed it, diesel in the coolant again. UCF is sending the third set and doing long injector cups on all 8 holes this time.

[@matthewbattie1022]

What is false? I didn't say delete cooling. The EGR is the main problem in the 6.0 design. The second greatest problem with 6.0 are the shitty, thin head castings before 2005.5. You are getting bad heads. They are probably remans, or garbage Chinese castings. Go to Kill Devil Diesel and get a new good set of heads. @@MacJank7

[@grumpyg9350]

I purchased the threaded fitting you showed, and it leaked. I knew it was questionable before I tried it, but took the chance it was going to work. The block has a step/ recess where the o-ring on the heater would normally seat. The seal on the block off fitting, is square and without adequate material to fill the recess for the sealing compression. My engine is a 2006 6.0. Great video.👍👍👍👍

[@toomanytoys]

I should have bought it to try it earlier. It got away from me. That was the only fitting I found of that size. I'll buy it from you for whatever you paid and the cost to ship it to me, so I can try.

[@grumpyg9350]

TooManyToys I'll just send it to you.👍

[@wildearpsadventures4991]

Great video, I love how your mind works. As well as how detailed you go through your discussions/ explanations. I have an 06 engine 250k miles in my 04 chassis 410k miles. Recently had 4 injector wells crack. I'll have to go back to the shop receipts to let you know which ones. I took it to a highly trusted shop who only works on Ford deisels who has always been truthful and has never tried to upsell me, actually given me many free parts over the years. Short story long they called BPD about it since it was the first time they've seen so many on a truck. BPD said its super rare and recommended replacing heads, so I did. Also for reference even though I knew better, I let the cracked well (fuel in coolant and low MPGs only symptoms) go for 8k miles before I could get it repaired. Just more info for your informal research on the matter. Thanks for all you do for our community

[@toomanytoys]

Thanks for adding that. I hadn't come across anyone who had four issues, that's interesting. Were the heads ever reworked prior? I would have replaced the heads too.

[@wildearpsadventures4991]

@@toomanytoys Finally found recipes. 369k found #5 and #8 cracked and kits installed. 397k #2,#7 cracked and #8 kit was cracked. Being #5 and #8 were repaired almost 30k ago for total of 4 cracked. Replaced heads and while it's all open replaced/serviced a bunch of internal parts too. Other then the 2 injector well kits no other head work had been done. At that time apx 250k on engine. I head studs installed with new to me engine. 50k on engine when installed with nearly all "bullet proofing" done. Relative to this BPD egr cooler, coolant filter and 200deg thermostat. Hope this helps your study

[@toomanytoys]

@@wildearpsadventures4991 Any situation where injectors were changed prior? Possibly tightened higher than the 18mm head 24ft-lb (288in-lb) spec? Some people have believed in the forums that torquing the injector hold-downs higher is better, yet it's a way to stress the area. The 20mm heads had different castings and relocated clamps; they were spec'ed to 25.8ft-lb (310in-lb). I've seen forum members tighten to 31lbft (372in-lb). Not only did Nav/Ford make a casting change, but KDD also did too with their castings from the cracks they saw.

[@wildearpsadventures4991]

@@toomanytoys no sir. Same injectors as when Engine was installed. Only other non-maintence work done prior were cam / crank sensors and full AC replacement.

[@toomanytoys]

@@wildearpsadventures4991 I've never seen that variation on one motor. Wow.

[@jaybilawchuk2225]

Good food for thought! My 07 king ranch is all factory with only 80,000 miles. It came with a threaded in block heater from factory, but the actual cord has never been installed. The previous owner had never let it stay outside one night if it’s life, and had never ever installed the cord to the front. But according to your pic at the end of your block heater marked and installed, the prongs of my factory block heater it comes with is positioned exactly the way yours is? I won’t know which way the element is physically sitting inside the head tho, but looks the same sitting position as yours. I’m going to need mine soon up here in central Canada. (:

[@toomanytoys]

With an '07 that has the 20mm heads, it's reinforced in the area that cracks so if this is an issue with the 18mm heads, you don't have to worry. Interesting that it's prings are horizontal, so they may have spec'd the threading to that position.

[@louielopez1638]

My 07' 6.0 has 78000 miles on the original engine. I had my engine oil analyzed with 4900 miles On it back in 2017. The results showed no abnormalities. Lab report read engine has normal wear. I'm not worried about the engine block heater. I've only used once here in far west Texas back in February of 2011 when temperatures 25 degrees above zero for 2 weeks straight.

[@jaybilawchuk2225]

@@toomanytoys I will double check, but I was certain they are sitting horizontal. Now you’ve got me curious. (: it’s great having someone that knows the 6.0’s like you do. I’m new to them, so I’m always interested in tricks and tips. (:

[@toomanytoys]

@@jaybilawchuk2225 My first and probably only 6.0L, learning as I go.

[@toomanytoys]

@@louielopez1638 A 2007, with the 20mm heads, you don't have a worry as this is an 18mm issue if it's real.

[@gnarlock3927]

Need help! Recently my block heater started tripping the GFCI. I’ve ruled out the cord and testing the element itself. I’m getting ~15.5 ohms Hot to Neutral but also registering various readings Leg to Ground. I believe the element needs replaced unless I’m missing something? Hoping I can swap out quick with minimal fluid loss. Gonna be a cold coolant shower!

[@gnarlock3927]

This has me going insane lol.. It’s not the GFCI after trying 3 diff brands all new. On “Continuity” I get no beep measuring Leg to Ground. I will try to heat it using non GFCI tomorrow and see if it can drive out moisture or something, it did sit for a couple weeks in soggy weather

[@toomanytoys]

It's usually the cord. I would drain the coolant from the radiator first.

[@gnarlock3927]

@@toomanytoys I thought so too but tried a new cord. I think it’s a pinhole in the element that the 9v DMM won’t catch but 120v shorts to ground. Really didn’t want to pull that crusty thing out! Looking at replacements there is a note that says incorrect positioning can cause engine damage so I think you are totally correct!

[@toomanytoys]

@@gnarlock3927 You've got an odd one then. I was trying to think how the element would be screwing you up, but I'm in Christmas tree selling mode and don't have a lot of time to spend elsewhere. Your process of elimination is good. My cord went the fate of many others, the plug end shorted.

[@gnarlock3927]

@@toomanytoys Thanks I wish I was half as good of a troubleshooter as yourself! Such a simple device this should’ve been cake lol I will try to report back with my conclusion. Have a Merry Xmas TMT

[@showmerepair]

Never thought of that. I may do something different with my 6.0 when I get ready to install it. I need a block heater living in Missouri. Maybe try one that is in the lower radiator hose? Great video.

[@toomanytoys]

I wouldn't go too far down the rabbit hole with that. After I saw the 6.4L block restrictions, it was a curiosity that would alter the flows right to left, so I kept wondering why they would do that. The front cover would have to have bungs welded so thermocouples could be added to know if it did something.

[@showmerepair]

Why couldn’t thermocouples be installed the the freezes plugs on the back of the block?

[@toomanytoys]

@@showmerepair It a better temperature Delta if you get readings after an obstruction.

[@showmerepair]

Good to know thanks

[@justinvegan]

I've been watching your video's & can truly appreciate your desire to figure out the issues & correct them. That leads me to my question. Are you putting this motor back together & back into the truck? Sorry, if this answer is obvious.

[@toomanytoys]

LOL. The time it takes me to do videos is the real stumbling block. I assemble one, don't like it, walk away, redo, don't like it again, finalize it, then wait to review to see if I still like it, and often re-edit. The motor, that's a week project. Plus, a lot of time trying to understand this motor. Basically, the priority is the videos, not getting it back in.

[@justinvegan]

@@toomanytoys Do something & then come up with a better idea... It's Human Nature. Thanks for the Video's!

[@redrider999]

Navastar also in the the cooling pump flow rate on the 6.4. My personal opinion is there is a lack of cool flow at peak torque when the most heat is generated combined with the high operating temps for emissions. If it's 220f in the thermostat housing, how hot is the cooling around the exhaust valves and the centre cylinders. Next is out of spec block and cylinder head finish.

[@toomanytoys]

I would expect hotter, too.

[@Nicky_Pin_It]

Very interesting. Nothing i would of ever even thought of 🤯

[@eddylee587]

Hello Jack. Great info to consider. So, in seeing the differences of the 6.0/6.4 coolant passages. Are you or you considering using the 6.4 gasket on your 6.0 instead? The restricter for the passenger side would be needed if that is a servicable part?? Did mine back in 13. Didn't last 2 years. Redid them finally a few years ago and used Fel-Pro gaskets instead of the ford ones! Seems Ford is steadily going down hill year after year! The quality between ford and Fel-Pro was noticeable! Especially looking back at your head gasket video some time ago! I wish I had the time, patience, space and tools to do what you do. Great work and examples given!👍

[@toomanytoys]

Thanks, Eddy. I thought it was interesting how they redirected the coolant flow, more to the passenger side and more to the heads' center. But no, I would not entertain using the 6.4L gaskets on a 6.0L. I interacted just enough with the engineers working on the cooling side of things to know it's not a backyard engineering project. This quick weekend flipping a lifter project has turned into a science fair project; it became more of a take investigating what could be causing problems and trying to leave something behind. I had the back door opportunity to talk to some of the Fel=Pro guys and they spent some time working on the gasket design, looking at the failures. The Int/Ford gasket was built around a new, stock motor, not looking later at the failures.

[@22howards]

I got a kick out of the “lack of oxygen” comment. While I don’t have a degree I have been in the industry or 40 plus years and enjoy looking for root cause failures. Hell, I make a living doing it. Lack of oxygen happens to many of us over the years. It just makes you “look” at things differently.

[@toomanytoys]

You have to see things differently - the approach is different. People get tunnel vision thinking of a specific end game or causation in problem-solving. Nothing is off the table; think as wide as possible, wander through possibilities, no goals, then pick things off. And it's OK to be wrong and be challenged on it. The process is about learning, which you can't do when you think you know everything. Sometimes when you're in the forest, all you can see is trees and a narrow path to the false goal. And people around lead you down that path. It's a thought process.

[@dakotadale567]

More fantastic tech. I aooreciate all of your efforts and would even be curious to see any tech you might be playing with on any other engine platform. I feel like you have mentioned small block fords a number of times

[@toomanytoys]

Sorry, I thought I had replied to your posting. Most of 289HiPo work was around restoration, a little playing with them and motorcycles.

[@niceguy4928]

That is definitely over looked. I’ll bite in this a little bit. I have seen many many times cylinders 3&5 over fuel or compensate for the other cylinders bad injectors to normalize the power balance to keep trucks from coming back to the dealer. Maybe the extra heat. Who knows. Thanks for the videos.

[@toomanytoys]

Thanks for the feedback. I always appreciate your comments and point of view experience with multiple truck history. My views are always "out there" being from an R&D perspective and a sample of one. A dangerous thing to do.

[@fishhunt9874]

All your thinking makes my head hurt............😉

[@toomanytoys]

LOL. It usually makes my head hurt too.

[@dieselfueled_]

Anything new?

[@toomanytoys]

I'm delayed to my my sinus condition really screwing up my voice overs.

[@jasonfisher360]

This ain't it, chief. . But- its definitely good you have your brains on. Be careful tho, you can speculate with yourself about a 6.0 right past obscurity into the absurd quick and easy...

[@toomanytoys]

Always open to hear the reason injectors 3 and 5 are the most common to have these cracks since the heads are not handed.

[@matthewnosal6893]

It’s a casting flaw perse’ ... I’ve heard of over torquing the injector will do it to. I had to put the long sleeve on #5 of my excursion. Sold it a month later.

[@toomanytoys]

@@matthewnosal6893 I agree with its a design flaw, one of the casting changes when the "commonized" 20mm heads replaced the 18mm. But there has to be a trigger that causes it to occur on the passenger side at 3 and 5, while it's very, very rare on the driver's side at 4 and 6. They are the same castings, interchangeable driver and passenger.

[@matthewnosal6893]

@@toomanytoys this was an 05 Excursion. I bought from a guy. It had the fuel in the coolant already. With 235k miles on it . It would not have been cost effective to put new heads or a complete engine from ford(cringe) it was a gorgeous truck. But I just fixed it and flipped it. Made some good money on the deal. That diesel will tear some stuff up as far a seals go. Just a long block with injectors less turbo was gonna run me 10500.00 then my time to install it. The only thing attractive of the Ford reman is the warranty. It’s hit or miss as you are aware of.