🚨 Minstrels In The Black Church (For ALL MUSICIANS & SINGERS) * FULL CONVERSATION*

[@a334boy4u]

I was a musician in the church that played for many years. Never received (nor did I want to) a dime. God provided for me. He blessed me beyond measure. We were given talents to render them back to God.

[@m.norrie3202]

Tell that to the pastors that aren't teaching or preaching bout nothing...

[@curtisdrummerellerbe9544]

So we’re just saying that I’ll give myself an example I played at a church that had 5 to 6 choirs. Each choir had their designated night of rehearsal so I was at rehearsal five times a week. That’s including Sundays. We had two services on Sundays so 60% of my time I was at church. I could not find a secular job that paid me well because my availability was really really bad because I was at the church so much, and not only that as a drummer, the songs were very complex so I also had to get there earlier a few hours earlier so I get there around 3 o’clock in the afternoon when nobody is there but just the church secretary and I would practice the songs Until rehearsal Jobs would not hire me because my availability was bad and if I did get the job by the grace of God I had very minimum hours so are you telling me I should get nothing they paid me $200 $800 a month direct deposit into my account with the tax to be $788 so you’re telling me that I’m supposed to do that for free??? The Bible says a man is worthy of his, and the Bible says gifts will make room and Talent That payment they made Hairdressers police officers doctors lawyers they get paid but the moment you step foot in the church now all of a sudden we say it’s God‘s house, but the Bible also says the Earth is the Lord and the fullness there of so you should not get paid anywhere Will trust in God that he will provide is that he gave us a job and that job just so happens to be a musician musicians a musician is a type of Work. People that are in music is a profession.

[@arrobinson2191]

Did you have a job outside of church? For many musicians, playing, singing, directing, teaching music and doing it well is a full time job. They don't just work on Sunday. They practice daily and rehearsal with other musicians and singers.for them their life revolves around music. Yet they still have to pay mortgage, utilities, phone bill etc.

[@heyheyhey40]

Expecting musician to “serve” without compensation is ludicrous! Bottom line, if you want GOOD musicians, you need to pay them. You pay for service that you value. Being a musician isn’t magic. It’s hard work, sacrifice, and dedication. We are practicing while everyone else is playing.

[@laurajackson2993]

This conversation is long overdue. My husband is a musician and he just had to make a hard decision to leave a church because of the way he was getting treated. If you’re not directly involved with hired help in the music ministry, you don’t understand. We enjoyed watching this. Love the black church but we gotta do better. Like Rico said it’s easy but we make it complicated

[@eaqua56]

Exactly this!

[@stephencosey5797]

Nehemiah 12:47 & 13

[@emanuelrozellemusic831]

@@stephencosey5797 never even knew that was there!!!

[@vic9844]

Curious to know how he was being treated

[@msreality8120]

I understand both sides. I used to be the church book-keeper. It was a very small church but pastor asked us to volunteer book-keeping services plus it looks better at IRS. There were times we barely could keep the lights on but we had to pay the musician no matter what. She had a good full time job too. We also had to pay her taxes which would be tight too. So i asked her if she wanted to help the church and pay her taxes at the end of the year -,so she said yes. At the end of the year -she owed and came back and fussed at me. I politely said, i asked u if u wanted to help the church so they don't have to monitor pay out your taxes for u and u said "yes." She said, i remember. Don't want to do that anymore. I sweetly said, you don't want to help the church? She laughed and said no. I ask u musicians and singers the same question.

[@nicksautodetailing9356]

As a musician I really enjoyed whoever put this program or podcast show together. This needs to be done in every city because a lot of musicians are not getting paid and I think that they should be paid because it makes church service go so much better.👍🏽

[@njm2557]

I don't expect payment but I do expect respect and understanding. Being a musician in church takes up a lot of time and as a man with 2 young kids it's a lot of sacrificing. I'm up on that stage every Sunday playing almost the entire time, it's tiring. I'm fine not being paid but then don't get upset if I tell you I'm taking a week or two off to sit with my kids during service or just to rest and enjoy church.

[@cherylmarch8995]

Wow! How times have changed. When both my parents died the church members, choir & musicians offered and provided their services and building at NO CHARGE. It was like they were offended we had asked how much it would cost. However, we did insist on giving.

[@bluezy710]

Your times are much better than ours, and this is coming from a young adult. What you experienced was a true family in Christ. Today's church knows very little about sacrificial love and, in turn, knows very little about the power of God. They want the tithe but will charge you for a funeral at their facility which is also yours because you're a member, you're family and it's your money that funds the place. It is very disheartening to see the Christian Church of today feeling justified in thinking differently about things like this. It has become "our kingdom come" instead of "thy kingdom come".

[@hookedonhustle5103]

All I know is, I'm encouraged by these young black men and women that are doing THEIR thing and doing well...

[@eaqua56]

Yes! Its so amazing to see hkw these musicians are serving within the church and how they navigate using their gift.

[@willybeama1]

Exactly. They are thriving as musicians and my heart is warmed for it. It’s not easy being a musician because the disrespect is literally everywhere. May God continue to bless them, their careers, and their families that they support!

[@faithjackson5965]

Whatever we do as ministers of the Gospel, we are to do it as unto the Lord. How I serve in the house of God is not about me getting the glory, it’s about God geatting it ALL. This not about people or individuals doing “THEIR THING”, it about allowing God to do His Thing throw us.

[@suenelson4123]

I am hearing little about an ACTUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST. I hear people, pastor, money, the church....how about an ACTUAL RELATIONSHIP with Christ.

[@tw9946]

Sue: It's so shameful, or it should be the absence of a relationship with Christ among the panelist: including the pastors.

[@Dwilsonmusic145]

I think that the questions were very much specifically about the differences in opinion and thoughts. The one thing everyone has in common is a relationship with christ. It's sort of a given. I don't think they came all that way to talk about something as common as a relationship with christ. If you watched this whole video and thought anyone in there was lacking a relationship with christ then idk 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@leopoldwhylie5076]

that's should be the point shouldn't it? But a lot of us are blind to this fact.

[@0xTRellyx0]

This discussion is not about relationship specifically. Relationship should be a prerequisite to being in ministry. This discussion is about how people who already have a relationship are treating each other.

[@vic9844]

@@Dwilsonmusic145 A relationship with Christ isnt as common as you may think especially among us musicians

[@Prince-fo6rq]

Several members of this panel need to drop to their knees and seek deliverance and get saved FOR REAL!!!!! SMH

[@mistermister9510]

That’s the truth! Arrogance!

[@jayjohnson7728]

Absolutely. I just started and had to pause cause I don’t believe the things coming out of their mouths.

[@finonfire]

So your going to say they arent saved because of what they said on a particular topic based on what their experiences??

[@suhkuhtashrecords1228]

Agreed !

[@TheDavisboy1234]

💯💯💯💯

[@derrisleemusic1998]

It is important that we as musicians have integrity before God in all we do. What is also true is this: If musicians are utilizing their skillsets to take a ministry to the next level, THEN WE NEED TO BE COMPENSATED. Pastors who are against paying musicians need to understand that they must invest in those who invest in their church.

[@dwightharrison9472]

As listening and watching this discussion. I heard a lot of I I I and me me me! Very little about God God God, and the Kingdom!!! I saw an awful of pride and arrogance with some. The worship leader is not a position. It's a ministry. Our position is seated in Heavenly places with Jesus!!

[@erikahoward654]

Say that!

[@faithjackson5965]

Amen, brother! What appears to here is a lack of training in the principles of the Word of God. Hearing these answers remind me of the church in I Corinthians 1-3. They were very gifted but very immature. Gifts are given but the fruit of character is grown.

[@RobertSmith-un1vn]

Musicians, only what you do for God will last.

[@curtisdrummerellerbe9544]

Doctors, lawyers, teachers, astronauts, lawyers, veterinarians, fast food, workers, retail workers only what you do for Christ will last so don’t ask for a paycheck do it for free

[@td2941]

There's a difference between a musician entertainer and a true minister of music. One of the panelists mentioned the office of the Levite. Now these were true ministers of music. They were set apart, were skilled, had a true relationship with God, and did their duties day and night. They were paid with the tithe. Please don't try to equate entertainment with true ministry. Now if you musicians are truly following the duties of the Levite. Yeah, you should be compensated. Otherwise no you shouldn't. Get a job getting paid for your talent. If you're not doing full ministry at your church day and night, aren't skilled, and don't have a relationship with Christ, then you shouldn't be paid. You are a volunteer. These musicians get too big for their britches and think God needs their entertainment. No, God is looking for true worshippers and people who aren't looking to be compensated for their talent. God Will get the glory with or without your piano, drum, etc. See these pastors need your music to hype of the service to get the congregants excited so they'll stand in that $50, $100, $1000 line. Church is so messed up. Just praying that during this time that these churches were closed God took some of this foolishness out of the church and humbled these musicians hearts. Because pretty sure you're not getting paid now that your churches are closed. Church needs to get right and come back to God.

[@Jay-fp4ii]

Amen!

[@phillipking4621]

@t d you ain’t lying…and this is my problem…when you look at this as a job then your going to be treated like it’s a job. People are church hurt and need to let the lord heal them. But great comment

[@philly440]

There's so much wrong with your statement and that mentality. First of all musicians being paid to do the service of the temple is BIBLICAL nothing you said is biblical its just a churchy opinion. Secondly churches pay everybody else those plumbers and electricians and any other service providers don't meet any of those standards your internet provider is providing service to the church during service also and the church pays them. Also let me help you because you obviously don't know how it works behind the scenes but the largest bill most churches have is the pastor they not only get paid but they also get allowances for housing, cars some get grocery allowances some get percentages of offerings and most churches are only paying musicians $100-$300 Also there wasnt a single group of levites in the temple day and night there was a entire tribe they shared the duties. Musician can go get jobs most do have jobs cuz the church doesn't pay much don't get it twisted thinking theres some huge amount of money being passed out there are services I've played and been there for hours and got $50 that ain't nothing

[@eLLBdotmusic]

@@philly440 Blessing. Where is the scripture chapter and verse references? Thanks for sharing.

[@vic9844]

@@philly440 cant compare what a musician does to the duties of a Pastor. Their job is 100 times harder than us musicians. The problem is that most musicians wanna be FT musicians and make a career out of it and outside of mega churches, most smaller midsize churches dont have the money to pay that. You talkin about making at least 50k a year to be a FT musician and mind you we got MDs out here making well over 100k at these mega churches. So if let's say the keyboardist is getting 50, what about the drummer, Aux Keys, Organist, bass player etc. You looking at well over 100k a year in just the musicians alone. There aren't enough mega churches for everyone to get that type of bread so it turns into musical hitmen for hire. Guys playin 2-3 church services on a Sunday just to get the bag they looking for. It's just not something guys should look at as a "career". Keep a regular job be a devoted member to your church and play there. Whatever they pay you wont be as important because you aren't looking to them for your mainstream of income. But in this day and age, it may be wishful thinking.

[@RaymanticM]

Jesus said "The hired (hireling) hand runs away because he’s working only for the money and doesn’t really care about the sheep." John 10:13

[@knardharr]

That’s so true..

[@keshascomedyset8999]

Lord Jesus!

[@frederickweeksjr.1189]

EXACTLY....just listening to these individuals shows me they're ARROGANT AND SELF. My biggest concern for them is "WHO:are they playing for? 2nd....they need ANOTHER JOB because the WAY they're addressed this topic ,it's like they're saying THEY control the narrative....( just listen to HOW they talk) . These people need to check themselves. I have played for several churches, while being a FULL-TIME truck driver (OTR). I KNOW WHO I'm playing for. Once you understand that compensation won't be an issue and you'll trust the LORD for the results.

[@JJDPROMEDIAPRODUCTION]

@@frederickweeksjr.1189 So, what is the answer to them?

[@emanuelrozellemusic831]

I would not leave for the money because I take my ministry VERY SERIOUSLY. Every song I select, I pray it touches the hearts and souls of all those who hear it. I thank God for using me as a vessel to let His word be heard through me and received by those who need to be ministered to. At the same time, it is a business that I expect to be compensated for. And if I feel I’m being taken advantage of, I would certainly take my ministry elsewhere. It doesn’t matter to me where God sends me, there are people EVERYWHERE in need of being ministered to. Even if it meant being paid less elsewhere. Respect t be given. I Will not allow disrespect to cause havoc, interfering with my ministry.

[@daxespinosa1192]

I like this video. The community involved conducted themselves with high level of respect towards each other on a meeting about a very important aspect of the ministry which is often misunderstood by the community. I admire how the musicians and singers defend objectively in detail without arrogance their role, socioeconomic struggles, responsibility, commitment to God, and most importantly the economics surrounding the music department of a ministry. Even though I'm Filipino, I was hired as a keyboardist in a black community church in South Los Angeles. Playing there for over 2 years. it gave me a profound understanding of the importance of music, and its integral role in black community ministries. The musicians and singers in this video did an excellent presentation.

[@pjicy]

40:40 correction* Lucifer took 1/3rd of heaven with him lol his concept was understood though. Be careful how you use your musical gift from God. Don’t get carried away and don’t get lost in the secular world of music.

[@JaiiReed76]

It was God that gave the the gift people are the ones who try to dictate how it should be used. Not God different music is for different occasions.

[@faithjackson5965]

@@JaiiReed76 True. People want to control the gift. Our lives should be totally surrendered to God and led by Holy Spirit.

[@catherinemeans1408]

I appreciate the honesty of everyone, even the young people. I thank God for the honesty of the Pastors. No one ever wants to talk about the church being a business and music and musicians are hired employees.

[@willybeama1]

Period.

[@eaqua56]

I love seeing this discussion amoung musicians and the church members/leaders. A lot of things were brought to light and discussed in a peaceful manner.

[@Special_Brewd]

This is the reason I will never pay anyone to play music in my ministry. This is ridiculous 😒 🙄 😑

[@tw9946]

Its the attitude. Its disgusting, unholy, unthankful, ungreatful, and unbecoming. What happened to seek ye first the kingdom??

[@HISandHISAlone]

@@tw9946 ....and all these other things shall be added. The servant is worthy of his hire. 🎶🙏🏼🕊

[@cjohns1005]

Bet that ministry is TRASH

[@carlahubbard8881]

We need this discussion in the Church Worldwide!!!

[@lulamartin9346]

This is real talk.Itd open.clear and honest.No double talk.or nonsense.This way no one goes away from the table empty handed or feed a lot of "yahkidot".

[@musiccoachtito]

EXACTLY!!!!

[@avacarter424]

What profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul.

[@heyheyhey40]

God ABSOLUTELY gave me the talent of music. But I have worked HARD for YEARS. Got a degree in music. Yes, God gave it to me, but this gift hasn’t come without sacrifice.

[@RaymanticM]

always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:7

[@cgreen2984]

"Put a difference between holy and unholy...". People will sell their very soul for a dollar and justify it. 😒

[@captainavril9683]

The Black church is dead, it has no righteousness and no vaule

[@sydneicurtis8057]

Exactly.

[@leonardemiletaylor6229]

Say that!

[@wendymimes4786]

Ain’t that the truth! We serve a Holy God and everything we do should look n feel holy! If u go into a clubs to draw folks out to be saved is one thing but to go n perform to make a dollar is another thing! who r u deceiving YOURSELF! Don’t get it twisted.

[@PichaDisMedia]

Let the wheat and the tare grow together

[@amorxlntwa8]

Let your light so shine!! Wherever you are.

[@themost8310]

Church is a BUSINESS. When do people pay for "gifts"? Just say you want my service then pay. Keep it real church folks.

[@vibiify]

I’ve sang in choirs most of my life and sang in a praise team later and I have never been paid!

[@willybeama1]

You were also paid 5 likes. Perhaps you do not want to be a professional compensated musician. If you do want to be one, then I suggest you demand payment for your services. There is literally a section during tax season for church musicians. The government expects you to be paid. Get paid.

[@KVJ-w7h]

Don't even make sense smh. But it's also us as well we don't take care of our own but if it was a Susan or Nancy we go right away like the lady said even if they didn't have money I'd still go because of how they treated me

[@tw9946]

@Wil, so have I. My question is when does it stop? Are we going to start paying: Ushers, deacons, choir members? Its so sad and ungodly, this entire panel and the spirit behind it.

[@cjohns1005]

@@tw9946 so pastors only

[@MFanForever]

@@tw9946 Ushers, deacons, and choir members do NOT put in the same amount of dedication and craft that musicians do.

[@jayrome42]

These people sound more like secular artists doing Christian music 🎶 than Christian doing Christian ministry. Not one of them can justify their position Biblically! Creeping compromise trying to serve two masters! I pray that they come to see the errors of their ways and repent!

[@rickeyjones729]

A church wanting a musician to play for free and say it's for God is not biblical as well. It's between the musician and God not the member the musician and God. Lol 90% of people who comment want the holy spirit filled musician to speak. Cause they can't play the organ. Or keys.... the training and hours it takes to get to these levels of expertise... while the rest of the members come free and hand out a program, a fan , a membership card. And get treated better than musicians. And last point don't throw stones when us musicians have a better view of the members laughing whispering talking during the word haha the church forgets what are point of view is from where we sit.

[@willybeama1]

Nobody wants to pay a musician. Period. Story of my life. I am constantly expected to do free everything. It stops when musicians demand payment or refuse to play. My literal career is musician. The disrespect is insane. Just comes with the career path. Ugh.

[@danielevans561]

I 100 percent agree because they fail to understand that music is a job just like a doctor or teacher and they also fail to understand that musicians getting paid is a Biblical thing so they need to be compensated for their work. I don't know why there are getting it twisted cuz if u follow some of them u will play music there and u go back home and have no money to feed themselves and their children so as far as i am concerned they to stop believing that music is a hobby. Music is a job

[@willybeama1]

@@danielevans561 You right. This is so poorly done. The nerve of these people to judge musicians because we are making a living is disgusting. No other profession is expected to do free everything. Let me speak to my fellow musicians right quick. I don’t care what no parishioner, pastor, bishop, or bubble gum shop degree reverend doctor says. Listen to me here. Do not work for free. Period. Value yourselves enough to get paid an income that is respectable and value yourselves enough to be treated respectfully. There is literally a section during tax season that says church musician. The government expects you to make an income as a church musician. Interestingly, I never see a tax section for pastors. Anyhoo. Stop playing for free. If you are working for free then you are not being valued. This video is proof positive that an entire church will judge the absolute love of Christ out of you simply because you desire to be a professional musician. Don’t let them do it. Get paid with money and also respect. Get paid.

[@danielevans561]

Exactly suh they feel that it's ok to take advantage of musicians and mistreat them. It is not right ,musicians are getting paid from ever since if they read the bible properly they wouldn't be showing constant disrespect to musicians cuz this thing is biblical. However some of these musicians have families to take care of and what they fail to understand is that they should look into musicians doing it as a full time job,and not because they are getting paid for music services that doesn't mean that they don't ave a personal relationship with god. I am musician for over ten years and i am Christian and i find time to read the bible ,pray and spread the gospel to others so what they need to understand is that the problem is not having a relationship with god,the problem is churches in christendom are mistreating the musicians and they need to STOP that.cuz if they don't stop and those musicians get better treat elsewhere ,they are going leave the church and go where the better treatment is and don't return back. So the church need to bear this in mind and cease such attitude.

[@Tiedof_Shit45]

Agreed. So much disrespect

[@richeyd12]

This is facts, this disrespect is real

[@PaulCameronBroPaul]

I Can't Thank You Enough For Posting And Sharing This Conversation! As A Musician And Min Of Music For 41 Years , We Need This!!!

[@moniquewrites9046]

I don’t like this. This is division. Church should not be old vs. young. I claim Jesus before I claim my own race. I felt like many in the room are puffed up and should walk humbly with one another. It’s like their cornering the musicians to get an answer to accuse them and not mentor them.

[@BenLukemusic]

But as human being we have a bad tendency of doing that anyway😞

[@dej1596]

Sometimes the business part of the church takes over the church being church.

[@ShmaAdonaiEhad]

If is a business other than the FATHER's business is not a church is a house of mammon...

[@leannayearwood8826]

Who I am and what I do are two different people?? Make it make sense 😭 you are who you are because of what you do!

[@nishashawn2021]

I guess they mean on a professional level. Like doing a job doesn't define you as a person.

[@cutaboveminstrel]

Col. 1:16-17 says that Gid created ALL things and that ALL THINGS are for his purpose. He is before ALL THINGS and they all consist because of Him. Gospel and secular both consist because of God and have their purpose. It's the devil that perverts and pollutes those purposes. Now if you are singing secular music that promotes the devil's agenda (greed, murder, promiscuity, theft, etc) then no, God isn't pleased. But just because you sing secular music does not destroy your relationship with God. I'm a barber and I'm a minstrel. The same God gave me the gift to do both. I've seen some of the most outlandish things happen in a barbershop, not to mention barbers come with a preconceived reputation of the sexual nature. Should I not cut hair because of the foolishness that carries on in the shop or because what people think about barbers and their personal lives? NO! It's my integrity that doesn't allow me to indulge in the behaviors or conversations that aren't pleasing to God. Barbering is what I do (I CUT HAIR), being a believer is who I am. They must coexist by maintaining my integrity but they aren't one in the same. 🤷🏿‍♂️ IJS

[@Reeeece]

She's making a excuse for her carnality ....

[@0xTRellyx0]

If someone works for you, you should pay them - period. If you don’t, they are doing you a favor - period. The issue is that people are taking advantage of people, and thinking they should just eat it. Agreements should be made and honored by both sides - period.

[@MFanForever]

Exactly. And then calling them "selfish" and "ungodly" for wanting that money even the Bible says they are deserving of, I can see why church musicians are noping out and getting secular gigs.

[@emanuelrozellemusic831]

BRAVO for having this discussion!!!! BRAVO for posting this video!!! I’ve been a secular musician for 46 years and a minister of music in the Catholic Church the past 15 years. I consider my talents a gift from God and whether it’s secular gigs or masses, whether I’m paid or not, I believe the joy I give people through sharing my gifts is giving thanks to God. When I first started out, I refused pay, wanting to donate my time and talent to the church but the pastor refused to allow me to do that. I’m grateful that he did because even though I’m sharing my gift and giving people joy and ministering, from the church perspective, it is in fact a job. In addition, I do not agree with being paid based on how many people attended; church or otherwise. I had a place that tried that with me and I would not agree to that arrangement. Simply put, they are getting 100% off my ability EVERY TIME i play. I don’t see a small audience and decide I’ll play less notes on the piano or keyboard. I don’t say I’m only going to use six fingers and I’m not going to sing because of the small attendance. I am who I am 24/7. A gifted child of God.

[@ronaldwilson1431]

Yes it is a job because they want you to play for some random service or rehearsal every free moment that you have...I guess they think you're supposed to be on call!...you have to hunt people down to get paid.

[@ronaldwilson1431]

@Dye Dye you don't get called to music ministry....if you want to play just say you want to play.

[@quietasitskeptakaquake17]

This is ridiculous. A lot of people are talking in such an inarticulate fashion, they are talking in circles and saying nothing. I wish I could have contributed when this happened. I play in the secular AND gospel fields.

[@willybeama1]

Seriously! They need to get some gray haired musicians on that panel. There ain’t no way we would tolerate the level of disrespect from these parishioners and pastors. How dare they judge us for our honest professions and livelihoods. Bruh!

[@richeyd12]

That's a fact

[@faithjackson5965]

@@willybeama1 It’s deeper than what you think. Being a servant and representative of God in the church cannot be compared to your common everyday job. In the Kingdom of God, to whom much is given, much is required.

[@RobertSmith-un1vn]

People are so deceived. They think God gave church musicians talent to be used for the world. That is absolute deception.

[@JaiiReed76]

A musician is a musician people label them Church musicians music is not limited to just church

[@jayrome42]

BOOM 💥 💥 💥

[@urdestinydaughterofyah9739]

PID

[@edwardwratherjr3781]

@@JaiiReed76 saying that is like saying a doctor is a doctor. Like a E.R. Doctor is the same as D.D.S yes they both have a phd both attended some form of medical school but their specialty are in two different fields. A gospel musician deals with your soul and salvation through Jesus Christ, as to wear secular music glorifies everything but the church. How can the 2 walk together unless they agree? What fellowship does light have with darkness?

[@quentinboswell7747]

This is CLEAR EVIDENCE to how LOST our people are!! Giving and expecting payment to use a GOD given gift fellowshipping in the name of The Most High!!! And they put this on KZbin...🤦🏿‍♂️

[@KennethClark-fc4zz]

If you don’t believe the musicians should get paid, go get the free ones and see how different your church service flows.

[@heyheyhey40]

Personally, I can’t play in a church where I’m not spiritually getting fed. I am a member of the body of Christ. I don’t subscribe to joining a particular organization or church.

[@davidjemison9480]

This is a good discussion that needs to be addressed.

[@oldschool4444]

I am a drummer and I give God my best if I do get paid or if I don’t because God is going to bless me because God have done it for my family but still have a job!!

[@davidwhite3180]

They all said they wouldn’t leave the Church they’re presently at for another Church with more coins. They all said no. YEAH RIGHT!!!

[@the4cqueen148]

Exactly! Ministers of music have bills to pay too. Shoot! The pastor's paying his bills, if that's his/ her main income, go where the money is.

[@chrome269]

Some musicians actually believe in staying faithful to their church as a member..... myself included. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten calls to play for other churches, and some were willing to pay for a house for me and all that! But I was not lead by the spirit to leave so I didn't leave.

[@cocoacabanna5634]

Church Is Not A Business Man Made it a Business but , from the beginning NOT SO!

[@christopherstewart3558]

"Yahweh is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." This panel discussion sounds like a conference to talk about how to conduct "church business" and nothing to do with how to worship Yeshua in truth!

[@purpleprince2598]

And their main concern and focus is on paper money that the FATHER GOD consider to be EVIL. For the love of money is the root of ALL EVIL.

[@davidwhite3180]

CHURCH IS A BUSINESS. IT HAS BEEN SINCE THE DOORS OPENED CENTURIES AGO. BOTTOMLINE

[@0xTRellyx0]

@@davidwhite3180 This should only be partially true. A business run by Christians should have a Christlike mindset. There should be bend on both sides. If you can’t pay a musician properly, you should allow them leeway with their time. A musician who knows this shouldn’t take advantage of the situation. Christians should do all they can to do right by each other.

[@emanuelrozellemusic831]

That is EXACTLY the topic of discussion. If you heard from the beginning, questions were brought up prior to this discussion that led to gathering this panel together to discuss those questions. Don’t be upset because they’re not discussing your other topic, it’s just not the topic of this particular discussion.

[@superjam18]

Im glad I started out playing for free and still do with the occasional love offering. The only thing I don’t like is when people ask me to play for something or somewhere at the last minute and I usually turn it down.

[@victoryisyourportion]

"I'm a secular artist who leads worship" that's like saying I'm an active drug addict who's a drug counselor. It makes no sense at all!! God wanted us to be set apart and these folks whoring themselves out for a dolla!! It's so discouraging goes to show that theres no true conviction going on here and that's what the HOLY SPIRIT BRINGS!!!

[@aaronduling6224]

Well said miss beautiful monique

[@jayrome42]

Well stated Sis! Sounds like creeping compromise! Nobody can serve two masters simultaneously! Not one of these people can Biblically justify their juxtaposition!

[@sexy302010]

Glad you said. You cannot eat at both tables. She's not living the Word. No wonder why the church needs a thorough cleaning to suffer from the clean and unclean. He said, be holy as he is holy.

[@MFanForever]

No, it sounds like someone who is saved, but also needs money to eat. I'm sure if the church decided to stop shaming musicians and singers for wanting compensation for their using their gifts at the church like they pay the pastor, more people would be willing to do only gospel.

[@brandonjohnson6297]

Literally serving two masters...once they start making that big money they will leave the church in a heart beat.... Every celebrity artist that came from church is our example.

[@yamomma5053]

This would have been a better discussion if it was more organized. They get detouring from the actual questions

[@christenaj1]

24:00 Pastor E.V., your information is incorrect, it is in the funeral (planning) contract for the musician to receive a fee, just like the minister is to be compensated! Brother Curtis know exactly what he is saying~

[@msreality8120]

But it depends upon the funeral contact-right? Some churches treat the music for funerals as a pre-paid expense, but they need to communicate that better-it seems.

[@msreality8120]

Are we really trying to milk the family for additional monies at their time of grief, come on musicians. Pastors pay the musicians good and maybe they won't nickel dime u to death.

[@theresabeard-bruce9879]

Over 90% of church people have secular jobs. We are called to the marketplace. Go get the lost!

[@dannyfenton1688]

Thank you for posting this

[@calvinberry01]

Thank you for posting the whole thing… this is soooooo good

[@pianoman1316]

Music did not come from Lucifer! God created MUSIC!

[@spekialcay1]

when lucifer was in heaven as the archangel, he was assigned over the music in heaven. read Ezekiel 28:12-15

[@moretoLivefor]

@@spekialcay1 Satan was “assigned” over music by music’s creator, God. Satan doesn’t create music. He perverts it.

[@isiahsullivan5939]

So people at a church shouldn't consider a musician (MINISTER) to get paid but it's ok to make sure the pastor has a bmw and a nice house. Wow unbelievable!

[@patriciathompson1742]

You better preach

[@thomasmcleod1520]

Friday July 9th 7:48am WOW! 😲 MY LORD GOD 🙏 THANK YU 4 YOR MERCY & GRACE! This is how everything stays in Agreement because of what JESUS Did on the CROSS. AMEN! & AMEN! ✨🕊️🖐️🕊️❤️✨

[@flavanthensome]

It all comes down to communication and relationship. If everyone is TOTALLY clear with their responsibilities and what is expected of them(both the musicians/singers and the pastors/churches) , and there is fellowship/relationship between the pastors and their people, there are few misunderstandings.

[@fantasybouthour6679]

A lot of people don’t understand the music ministry, the preparation, the dedication, and the mindset that it takes to do this over, and over, and over. Often times we are abused, misused, and overworked. I just wish that we weren’t scrutinized so harshly and that the church would ease up on some of the expectations of musicians. This is hard work.

[@carlahubbard8881]

Very good discussion. I love this!!!

[@JamesQuintero7]

Secular vs. worship ... a kingdom divided...

[@healingbeauty1012]

This needs to be said again and again and this is why many show up late and work for multiple church's

[@Reeeece]

The beggining stages of Apostasy in the church...so much carnality....

[@Keevthe8thLordunderChristJesus]

Where are the Holy Spirit led musicians? Would like to hear their opinions.

[@alcraw2551]

Some of these musicians were humble!

[@blessedandfavored9242]

@@alcraw2551 humble but stuck in another mindset.

[@Tiedof_Shit45]

That died as capitalism gets stronger

[@tw9946]

I didn't hear anything about seeking God or a prayer life from panelist who feel they are vital to church service-for a fee of course. And these effeminate men calling themselves pastors and bishops....yeah ok. We'll see what God calls you on that day. The bible calls you what you are: workers of iniquity.

[@faithjackson5965]

As I listen to these panelist it is clear to me that they are very talented and gifted. But I don’t discern hearts that seek after the Kingdom of God first. Jesus said where your heart is will be where your treasure is. Listening to them talk I didn’t hear anyone speak about their relationship with Christ, or accountability of the psalmist and minstrels. The church cannot be so desperate that we compromise the standards of the Word of God.

[@JordanToolsee]

Was he forreal at the end asking for a $30 seed? He must not have been listening. That went against everything the people were trying to portray.

[@lisalafayette]

And THERE it is....didn't surprise me a bit. 🤑 😫 🤑

[@TriciaRP]

And people fail to realise Non where in the BIBLE is seed money. No where. BIBLE gateway IT AND SEE. NONE

[@davidmoore8151]

Also, what I’m hearing here is the need for structure hence why I’m in favor of a contract. Contracts clearly define, for the leadership, what the expectations are. The pastor can set whatever expectations they want including compensation and then seek a musician willing to abide or compromise. But this all sounds very unstructured.

[@musicguy9101]

If the agreement is for the church to pay their musicians, then pay the musicians. It's not all about the money. However, a workman is worthy of his hire. So my conclusion is that it's a ministry as well as a job

[@rwcolquitt5382]

Chicago we are praying...believing the Church is going to overrun all the anger, violence and lack with the anointing in power, deliverance, salvation and healing in Jesus name! Send Judah 1st!!! I trust these Singers/Musicians of God...be led by God! Jesus is Coming Back for a Church...

[@danielevans561]

What i found out is that people are not understanding that music is a career not a hobby so nothing wrong with musicians getting payed because it's a job

[@the4cqueen148]

Amen! The pastor's getting mad money but the rules change for everyone else & they can't let their gift make money for them. Smh

[@MH-yh2eu]

The segment with regards to how musicians are treated in a black vs a multicultural church was spot on. I've been there. I've experienced first hand EXACTLY what she said. She is 110% correct .... there IS a difference.

[@briandavis9097]

Its all about Jesus. People want to get paid for using God's gifts. Pay the musician only. Let's not forget Jesus said we are saved by the preaching of the word not the singing of songs.

[@zidonhibbert9940]

I've been waiting for this a long time now

[@jenny2pretty]

Great panel discussion!

[@myredeemermusicministry2129]

Just viewed this conversation. Being a singer, worship leader and director of music from a young age, I see the glass half empty and half full. This narrative was a very good conversation from both perspectives, however, I think we do sometimes compromise our gifts. We use some of the same justifications I heard in the conversation. Ex: I gotta survive, it’s a job etc. Being a Christian should dictate who you are, what you do, where you go, how you live. Remember… we should possess the character and the characteristics of Christ at ALL cost. I love “good” music, it’s contribution to the worship is important. However, it should never be a point of argument or question. We should never lose the focus of the church, which is soul winning. Look forward to more dialogues like this.

[@jeepgurl1379]

I know of a music minister under contract caught in sin and the church staff asked him to resign. He demanded the church buy him out of his contract. They paid it.

[@0xTRellyx0]

What I do and who I am are different? The most ridiculous explanation. That’s like having a pastor who’s a porn star. It’s ok because it’s just his job. Would you hire Chris Brown to be your worship leader? The truth is, it depends on the type of music you’re singing. Secular doesn’t equal sinful. But it can be sinful. It’s interesting how the 2 ladies didn’t mention that. They made it seem like singing demon filled lyrics it ok for a check. I disagree.

[@daunierthompson8978]

That’s not how she meant it. Being a porn star is a huge extreme compared to what she said which was just going to a club. She said that as long as her personality holds together she is alright, which more then likely means she doesn’t curse within the secular music. There are songs with curse words that can easily be replaced with another word. She also stated that people have come up to her for spiritual help in the club more the Anyone in the actual church house, which is absolutely gods will, idc what you say. She could save a life that night being in the club. Someone could be planning to shoot the club up and then they see her and walk up to her and ask her for spiritual advice and convince that young man or woman not to do so. That is absolutely the lords work right there

[@faithjackson5965]

@@daunierthompson8978 easy to say when we don’t know the state of her true spiritual condition

[@JaiiReed76]

I love his answer its a business decision. Being a hired musician is no different than any other job. If a greater opportunity presents itself its not personal its business. God has blessed some musicians to be able to use their gift and talent as a means of supporting themselves and their families.

[@BenLukemusic]

In all your getting get an understanding 👏🏾 this is good for us

[@brandonjohnson6297]

You can't serve GOD and money.... Yahsuha wasn't joking.

[@haroldhoward9162]

So sadly so many have made a business out of what God has intended to be a soul saving station. There’s a lot of confusion about gifts. But gifts come with out repentance . This maybe the first problem among many but can be rectified with a graceful understanding and not all over the place

[@LordsSaints]

“You want us to perform”…….that’s the problem

[@tw9946]

Wow.....Deandre needs to be delivered. Really shouldn't be "pastoring" anyone.

[@joeylewis8612]

Why you say that?

[@erikahoward654]

🙄....rediculous. This actually churned my stomach. God help us🤦‍♀️.....its like people have exalted thier gift above the gift giver

[@heidih.2394]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

[@williamdavis9268]

First of all, everybody is not a Levite: these folks have not said anything about be sanctified and set aside for God: the musicians and singers had to be sanctified: God is not mixing his Spirit with the world: God's house is is called the house of prayer: we r using God's house as a night club. Let's quit pimping God's people: God has his order already in the word: lot of these people are not even saved: the lifestyle comes first: Gifts and callings are without repentance: we must remember, judgment must began at the house of God: God is going to purge his house from the choir stand to the back door: what does God's word has to say about this

[@JaiiReed76]

I really enjoyed this

[@vic9844]

Its enough temptations alone playing and singing in church. To work and tour in the secular world especially in certain genres and the environments around it for months before returning home, is on another level. It can easily pull you further away from God being in that environment. Gotta be careful out here

[@arabelliajohnson8916]

For the people in the comment section disagreeing guess what,what is being said from these people it's going on in your church as well.They talked about in the beginning the difference between a church member and someone signed to a contract who made a promise and a commitment to do a JOB as a musician.Get out your feelings and stop being simple minded,and sounding complacent.If your not a musician,singer,pastor,etc this does not pertain to you.

[@nishashawn2021]

The singers, and the work they do is it more value than a usher? Than the parking lot ministry, the kitchen ministry, pastors aide? Why should the musicians be paid and not all the other ppl who SERVE in ministry? (Honest question, I really want to know why the focus is on music only)

[@ocbfdog]

The question is: who does the Pastor rely on to carry service?

[@TheDesouza79]

This was awesome!!!!💕💕💕

[@iDrum90]

For those that don’t know that’s THEE L.A Williams at Minute 48:47……one of the GREATEST guitar players to EVER come outta Chicago

[@eulandathreat1964]

He preached a mighty word.

[@dariusbanks6456]

This whole panel is horrible

[@julsrique9148]

Agree is a close door discussion board not for KZbin. But you know there's not humble people that like to live like the richest thru a gif given by God.

[@drummerboi74136]

I played drums in church all my life and never got paid. now I've been blessed but i never asked to get paid. i was faithful to my church even with a bad back. I had my bad days and i had my worst days with my back pain but I still showed up on time

[@garyh5366]

Great dialogue. I learned alot. My question is where is the community of believers in JESUS (YESHUA). I understand the chruch has take care of business. GOD'S business is deeper for Commmuinty of believer in JESUS. Community should take care community as God provide. Everyone in the community who can makes a contribution. The community should take care of the community. Let do biblical justice toward one another. Let not forget where inspiration, talents, gifts, and abilities come from.

[@suenelson4123]

Playing is ministry FIRST not a job! What am I seeing here!?

[@theresabeard-bruce9879]

Why are musicians paid and the worship team is not? If the musicians hit a wrong note nobody will know, but if the worship leaders hit a bad note, everybody will know. Go figure! The two work together. The anointing breaks yolks. The Bible says the servant is worthy of their hire. Servants help the pastor build their brand. There should be no competition between the gifts. If they leave, God has a remnant.

[@richeyd12]

Is this a real question?!

[@healedaries4644]

Often times singers are female….. and get treated differently based on gender.

[@ShmaAdonaiEhad]

how so?

[@patriciathompson1742]

Don't get me started at My house church,the women are treated differently than the men do I think it's fair no I do not that is my on going struggle with my church

[@cjohns1005]

😒

[@TJ-fr8xl]

God IS NOT whatever WE want Him to be!! Romans 12:1 days just the opposite. “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.” We are to be to God whatever HE wants us to be. We are LIVING SACRIFICES!!

[@ephramwalton]

Help and serve sounds like semantics. A person can say they are helping and have good intentions.

[@HISandHISAlone]

I'm simply desirous of HIS presence 🙏🏼💞🎶 For HE lives in the praises of HIS people, and everything changes, there is FULLNESS ~ of HIM (Psalm 16, esp. v)11. שלום Shalom 🙏🏼🥰🕊 HalleluYAH 🙌🏼🔥🛡🛐💯

[@msreality8120]

IRS does not consider 1099 a job but individual contractors, but musicians can’t make up new definitions.

[@tw9946]

Correct you are!! I wish the "musicians" would humble themselves. This entire thing is bananas.

[@msreality8120]

Whether a musician is part time or full time is up to each church, and their agreement. No one owns anyone, but please don’t leave after u play. Looks like u are above the Word.”

[@musiccoachtito]

If ur hiring a musician or musicians, it’s not ur place to determine rather or not they are true levites or not. U hired them to do a service, their personal relationship with God is strictly between them & God!

[@kdobbs1]

One waters one plants and God gives the increase. I feel like as a musician and a singer if your eyes are not fixated on pleasing God. You will constantly look to man to fill the void of wanting to feel important. I don’t knock these musicians from wanting to get paid but the mindset has to be right

[@dannyvelasco1548]

Wow I am shocked !! I play the bass/keys at my church and have never charged a single cent ! I do not do it for the money or to glorify my name but because i am grateful for the gift and life God has given me Being a musician at church should never be a business , you should be there for the Love of God

[@KVJ-w7h]

It is technically a business cause we save souls through music as well. If a visiting pastor gets paid why shouldn't we?

[@derekholiday6576]

@Danny amen! Thank you for that comment you hit it right on

[@MFanForever]

@@KVJ-w7h Heck, some churches in my area literally pays for the pastor's entire livelihood, even put his kids through college. But musicians should be expected to be there 6 days out of the week to play, rehearse and teach singers without pay because "You're doing the Lord's work?"

[@BenLukemusic]

You’re not a professional musician