Pre, Mid or Post Tribulation RAPTURE | Biblically defined | End Times Discussion

The rapture and tribulation have always been a matter of debate for believers of all doctrines. However, how can we define these biblically? There are people who place the rapture before the tribulation while others do it during or even after this unprecedented event.
In this discussion, we will examine key bible passages which will help you understand the theological implications of prophecy while unveiling many aspects otherwise unknown to the average bible reader.
Join us in this discussion on the end times.
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[@michellegower1259]

I feel this is when the great falling away from the faith may happen, as so many expect to be out of here n not be persecuted. Non believers will use that to say He's not coming and the Bible is false. To push their false agenda n weaken believers faith. I've said in bible study group to be prepared for persecution but I was told to be quiet as it upset someone. I am mentally prepared for it but so many aren't.

[@sasadjordjevic996]

FROM PAUL GOSPEL, Many, apostate falling away

[@yam153]

Agree yes, I believe and see that too surrounding me, we need to pray for them.

[@judyshives2405]

You know, when you really think about it, look at how ALL the Godly men in the Bible were persecuted for their faith, even to death!!! We are no different. We must be faithful even to death and pray for one another!

[@michellegower1259]

@@judyshives2405 agree 100%.

[@tammystempky5709]

Yes very true I also think when the antichrist is revealed that many will fall away in fear

[@judyshives2405]

I’ve been in a pre trib church all my life but this teaching actually makes sense. I was always confused with pre trib because there seems to be people going up at different times. Now I’m thinking this Satan’s tactic to cause people to be lazy about getting saved, Thinking oh, I can just get saved during the tribulation. God help us! Now I understand why pre-TRIB seems to be the most popular view. Satan don’t come to you with devil horns, and a pitchfork, he comes to you as an angel of light… he’s a trickster. Study to show thyself approved.

[@issuesthatmatter2825]

Satan doesn't want people to be prepared for the tribulation. There is a great falling away from faith when he revealed 2 thess 2. Those who beleive in pre trib will be the first to fall away from faith.

[@garrydalton1580]

​@@issuesthatmatter2825That's right

[@hansarildtangeraas237]

I just want to say thanks a lot for all the wonderful teaching from love Israel. I have gone through quite a bit, and it has changed my views and understanding.

[@klaston7526]

I totally 100% agree with you both. It is difficult to show Christians these things. My son and I study this topic thoroughly and we do not see the bible supporting any trib idea. Like Dr. Baruch states we should be led by the Holy Spirit. I ask him to clear my mind so I can learn His truth. I trust that God will bring his people to His truth soon. Maranatha!

[@sasadjordjevic996]

sister you can totally agree with Jesus, not with me or some other brother, You are free do not agree with everything

[@judyshives2405]

Brings the scripture to mind… narrow is the way and few there be that find it. That should be our first red flag! God bless!

[@Counselangel13]

Thanks to Dr Baruch and Christian’s addressing all these points about the End Times and the Rapture! I listen many times to what is discussed. Playing it over and over and listening to what is said!

[@judyshives2405]

I have too and with looking up all the scripture! My pre trib view has certainly changed. Truly i was indoctrinated. I can’t blame anyone but myself. I hunger for truth and God is opening my eyes! Thank you Jesus! Please people, search the Scripture with ALL YOUR HEART.

[@garvinsmith4555]

your pre-trib view changed because you misunderstood what Jesus had said in Mathew 24:36-39.

[@lorainetownsend3132]

Amen Brother Christian and Dr Baruch well explained, Thank you! I love you all God bless

[@aristidesg11]

Thanks for bringing discussions on the end times…timely. God have mercy on us through Jesus.

[@rustynut1967]

Yes, many conflate the two words tribulation and wrath.

[@truthwatch2858]

Amen Praise The Lord Jesus

[@sasadjordjevic996]

When Paul examine He do not observe to people So our observation was upon Apostle Paul, Very strong Dispensation TRUTH FROM TRUTH

[@issuesthatmatter2825]

There is 1 dispensation in all of scripture, prior to and after Christ blood. Stop chasing man's latter day false teachings

[@ritaschultz6859]

Thank you for the clear Teachings on the last days🐑 looking forward to your Next teaching Shalom and Gods Blessing To you and yours

[@Counselangel13]

I love listening to all of your teachings over and over because I feel such comfort in your Words!I learn so much more ! Keep your repetition coming please! Peace comes with them!

[@yam153]

Thank you as always Brethren of The One True G-d! May Peace and Grace be with you in Messiah Yeshua. "For The L-rd is good; His Mercy is everlasting, and His Truth endures to all generations" Psalm 100:5

[@suzanduran2853]

Yes personal study is imperative- may I add (as I read in the preface of ‘Prayers of the early church’) we are ‘deeply indebted to all those who have plowed the field before. They (you) have labored and we have entered into their labors’. Thank you. Maranatha

[@christyjohnson3290]

Far and few between that I find others that understand what I understand after Praying, seeking, knocking, and studying. I appreciate your video. I would love to study more with yall. His peace be upon you. In Yahushua Jesus of Nazareth Name. Amen

[@dfkuz]

I love what you said about the King James and its authentic manuscripts! ❤️

[@kilabergdorf4772]

Very good teaching. Thank you both.

[@sasadjordjevic996]

solid teaching from brother Baruch,i have to admit, only remain some other parts of Mozaik, like Paul Gospel, and dan 9, 27 Christ Covenant

[@lorainetownsend7165]

Amen well explained!! God bless you all!

[@Lael1]

Excellent teaching Thank you

[@wjdyr6261]

When the 2 witnesses are called up, that's the 1st resurrection or rapture of the dead in Christ 1st, then we who are alive and remain. It's not about knowing the day or the hour but the event

[@marisolrodriguez215]

Thank you

[@leialee6820]

I never believed in pre-tribulation rapture because I felt we should be prepared to suffer as Chtistians for our faith, after all so much of the church has endured such great suffering already even leading to death, so why should we think we are immune & can escape it all? This is what my understanding of the pre-trib rapture was all about.

[@christyjohnson3290]

Agree with the comment of the great falling away of 'believers' is because they believed the lie to save them from trouble instead of Loving The Living Word and hating this life. They loved their life more then the truth

[@sasadjordjevic996]

48min Yes brother Baruch Jecob trouble was second half of dan 70th week

[@Lael1]

What book did Rabbi hold up? I would like to purchase. Thank you

[@shawnblaylock5956]

Here’s a good one from Paul, speaking of the multiple events. Escape then Rapture…. “It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.” ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Especially verse 2 and 3 Above 14 years! There are lesser tribulations of 7years BEFORE THE FINAL 7 years of Jacob’s trouble! 14 years total. Did you catch that? Caught up….to the 3rd Heaven! That’s the very Throne Room of GOD! The Bride - the wedding) “I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.” ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭2‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Then the next event is like the first…but different! This “man” (or group) was caught up to PARADISE! Not the third heaven. (Wedding party - the guests) “And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.” ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@spreadsomelight]

Rapture on my playlist... You might want to examine this perspective.

[@RickyMiranda3]

Shalom de Papá Dios a todos mis hermanos Latinos

[@Counselangel13]

It is great to know that others are listening while I listen to the teachings!

[@datepalm1969]

Daniel 9:27, Daniel's 70th week plus more! More often than not, the chronology (i.e. the sequence in which the events will occur) is not always perfectly reflected in a passage of prophetic scripture. Also, the time frame for the fulfillment of a single verse of prophetic scripture can be wide-ranging, for example, the time frame for the fulfillment of Isaiah 9:6 is approximately 2,030 years-the birth of Jesus on 11 September 3 BC, to the 'beginning' of the New Millennium (calculated to be NO LATER THAN on 7 April 2030 (2,000 years from the death of Christ on Friday 7 April of AD 30)!!! The common interpretation of Daniel 9:27 is that it informs the events that will occur during the seven (7) lunar years (or 2,520 days) of Daniel's 70th week. However, Daniel 9:27 also includes an event that will occur exactly 1,290 days from the 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week, which is exactly thirty (30) days from the 'end' of Daniel's 70th week (see calculation below). Calculation: - 1,290 - 1,260 = 30 days where: - 1,290 = The number of days from the 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week, on which the 'abomination of desolation' will be set up on the 'wing' (i.e. outermost edge or pinnacle; mistranslated as 'overspreading' in Daniel 9:27 KJV); 1,260 = The 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week, which is exactly 1,260 days from the 'beginning' of Daniel's 70th week (or 1,260 days before the 'end' of Daniel's 70th week). Daniel 9:27 informs: - 🔹In the 'beginning' of Daniel's 70th week, Christ (not the Antichrist) will 'confirm' (strengthen) the covenant of the New Testament with the 'Spirit-filled' members of the Pentecostal-type churches who have received God's Holy Spirit like the disciples in the Bible on the day of Pentecost); 🔹In the 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week, the daily sacrifices and oblations cease (see Note below); and 🔹The 'abomination of desolation' (most likely the Islamic moon crescent 🌙) will be 'set-up' (placed on, or installed) on the 'wing' (outermost edge or pinnacle, but mistranslated as 'overspreading' in Daniel 9:27 KJV) on the yet to be constructed third temple of God on the hillock of Ophel in Jerusalem, which will occur exactly 1,290 days from the 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week (or exactly thirty (30) days from the 'end' of Daniel's 70th week (1,290 - 1,260 = 30 days) (Daniel 12:11); and 🔹The 'desolation' (complete destruction) of the city of Jerusalem and the third temple of God on the hillock of Ophel in Jerusalem, which will have been 'polluted' by the 'abomination of desolation' (most likely the Islamic moon crescent 🌙) on the outermost edge or pinnacle of the third temple of God on the hillock of Ophel in Jerusalem. Note: The 'daily sacrifices' at the yet to be constructed third temple of God on the hillock of Ophel in Jerusalem will 'cease' in the 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:27; 8:9-14). However, the 'abomination of desolation' (most likely the Islamic moon crescent 🌙) will be set up on the third temple of God exactly 1,290 days from the 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week (or exactly thirty (30) days from the 'end' of Daniel's 70th week (1,290 - 1,260 = 30 days) (Daniel 12:11; 11:31). Remember that not everything in Daniel 9:27 will take place in the 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week. And Daniel 12:11 is explicit that the 'abomination of desolation' (most likely the Islamic moon crescent 🌙) will be set up on the third temple of God exactly 1,290 days from the 'middle' of Daniel's 70th week (or exactly thirty (30) days from the 'end' of Daniel's 70th week (1,290 - 1,260 = 30 days).

[@sasadjordjevic996]

brother, brother, All says that i do not set the Date So what we set. You set at 58 min, To get ready for persecution. No no brother, That is for left behind, apostate from Faith in Christ Grace 1 cor 15, 1 -4

[@chatclap]

Hello, I was taught that the reason the antichrist might be jewish is because of this passage Daniel 11:36-37 King James Version 36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. as you can see in verse 37 it says he shall not regard "the God of his fathers", this means to me that he can be from a jewish, family, with this im not necessarily saying that the jews will believe in him, at least not all of them, hope Dr Baruch could address this passage or if he already has, can someone tell me in what video or correct this view?

[@sasadjordjevic996]

We brother have to make Dispensation, 2 tim 2,15. All verses do not support same thing

[@MightyMouse11]

I appreciate the intro and in encouraging us to study this subject for ourselves. I attended Morningstar Calvary Chapel I’m Whittier CA and they taught a pre-tribulation rapture. The teaching here left me with more questions since many events didn’t line up. Does Jesus return 3 times? Etc.

[@Kman.]

At the rapture, He doesn't "RETURN" to the earth, so *NO* in a sense. If you were left with question(S) plural, just what didn't add up for you, for it's the most reasonable, and well defined position IMO.

[@MightyMouse11]

@@Kman. I agree that at the rapture that’s not the second coming of Christ. However. That’s what been taught in the churches I’ve gone. What is IMO?

[@MightyMouse11]

@@Kman. there was a pastor that used Song of Solomon as an allegory for the second coming and Jesus lifting up His bride to Safety.

[@Kman.]

@@MightyMouse11 So just when does the New Testament Church get to Glory as far as the timing goes and how it relates to the tribulation? IMO = in my opinion

[@MightyMouse11]

@@Kman. only God knows the day and time.

[@OliveWeitzel]

Sorry, I do have more questions: a) Is there an exact sign for the beginning of the last 7 years = Daniel's 70th week? b) Can living believers acknowledge the antichrist prior to his act of "abomination of desolation"? c) How do we know that the "great tribulation" has begun? In most countries of the world believers are persecuted; a few western countries are still tolerating them. But surely the great falling away has begun! d) Do believers who survive the "great tribulation" happen to see the "abomination of desolation"? Sometimes it is said that the rapture happens prior to the"abomination of desolation", and sometimes it is said that believers will not see the "abomination of desolation" because the rapture will take place. Which opinion is correct? e) Why is the term " the great tribulation" only seen as a time of persecution for believers? Is it not possible that we are already living in the time of "great tribulation" , since there are countless terrible ungodly things going on in our present world? I'd be very thankful for the answers!

[@datepalm1969]

Olive H. Erna, I hope you do not mind me answering your questions, the answers to which are based on exegetical study of the Bible text and accepted as fact by many, albeit not all, Bible scholars. Part 1 of 2 a) The exact sign of the "beginning" of Daniel's 70th week is the "commencement" of the construction of the Third Temple of God on the hillock of Ophel in Jerusalem. In the comments section for this video, I have posted several lengthy comments in three (3) parts, on the soon to be built Third Temple of God on the hillock of Ophel. I have also posted several other comments on other topics which you may find interesting. b) The "living believers" (i.e. the living New Testament saints; see Note below), will not "worship" (revere, adore) the Antichrist unless they "fall away" from following Christ any time from now, but also during the "first" 1,260-day half of Daniel's 70th week, and particularly during the first (1st) seventy-five (75) days of the "second" 1,260-day half of Daniel's 70th week, when the persecution of the New Testament saints will be most intense by the devout members of the revived Islamic Caliphate 🌙. Note: In the Bible text, the New Testament saints are defined as those who have received God's Holy Spirit like the disciples in the Bible on the day of Pentecost with the visible and audible manifestation or sign of speaking in "other" (foreign, unknown to the person who is speaking) "tongues" (languages) (Acts 2:1-4; 2:17-18; 2:33; 2:37-40). The "faithful" New Testament saints will be raptured during the period of the sixth (6th) seal (inferred in Revelation 7:9-17 because they are wearing their white robes, married to Christ, and in the throneroom of God during the period of the sixth (6th) seal (Revelation 7:9-17). (The period of the sixth (6th) seal begins in Revelation 6:12 and ends in Revelation 7:17). However, the New Testament saints who are not raptured during the period of the sixth (6th) seal (because they have not been "faithful" to Christ despite receiving God's Holy Spirit), will continue to be in the "great tribulation" until the period of the seventh (7th) trumpet 📯 (Revelation 11:15-18) during which time they will either be saved (but not raptured) if they "repent" (turn to God), or destroyed if they do not repent. Revelation 9:4 informs that during the period of the fifth (5th) trumpet 📯, the members of the revived Islamic Caliphate 🌙 will be "commanded" [by God] to not harm the "men" (i.e. human beings, not gender specific) who have the "seal of God in their foreheads" (motif for God's Holy Spirit). The persons who have God's Holy Spirit during the period of the fifth (5th) trumpet 📯 are the Spirit-filled people who had not heeded Christ's advice contained in the letters to the seven (7) churches (Revelation 2:1 - 3:22), and as a consequence will not be raptured when Christ comes on the cloud ☁️ during the period of the sixth (6th) seal, but will be left behind (Matthew 24:41-41). Similarly, during the period of the seventh (7th) trumpet 📯 (Revelation 11:15-18), the one-third (⅓) "repentant remnant" of the ~1.6 BILLION descendents of the TWELVE (12) tribes of Israel (i.e. predominantly the non-indigenous people in the WESTERN nations of the world, but not limited to the ~15 MILLION Jews of genetic Jewish ancestry who are the descendents of the southern 2-TRIBE Kingdom of Judah), and the unquantified "remnant" of the Gentiles, will either be saved (but not raptured) if they "repent" (turn to God), or destroyed if they do not repent (Zechariah 13:8-9). Because the "abomination of desolation" (most likely the Islamic moon crescent 🌙) will be installed on the Third Temple exactly 1,290 days from the "middle" of Daniel's 70th week, which is exactly thirty (30) days from the "end" of Daniel's 70th week (and also thirty (30) days from the "end" of the "great tribulation"), the members of the revived Islamic Caliphate 🌙 will be the "sole inhabitants" on earth and also in the city of Jerusalem (Revelation 11:13; 16:18) during the period of the seven (7) bowls (Revelation 16:2-21) . The "repentant" Jews will be "saved" (but not raptured) during the period of the seventh (7th) trumpet 📯 (Revelation 10:6-7; 11:15-18), and those who do not repent will die in the great tribulation during the "second" 1,260-day half of Daniel's 70th week. (Continued in Part 2 of 2)

[@benny-yj7pq]

My answer: a) - c) Dan 9:27 The Antichrist confirms a covenant for one week with many, this will be known and believers can realize the AC, who comes the first 3 1/2 years with peace to deceive, but we know for sure, that the GT has begun, when the AC sits in the temple and declares himself being God (2.Thess 2:3,4; Mat 24:15). d) The bible is Post-trib (Mat 24:27-31; 2.Thess 2::1-3: Rev 11:15-18) after the great tribulation. so if we watch, we will see the signs, to know when He comes (1.Thess 5:1-5). e) The last 3 1/2 years will be intense persecution, the church fathers said, the church has to flee. There is only the false church, which goes with the Antichrist. But believers with a clean heart will be protected that time (rev 3:10; 12:6).

[@ab3585]

Does the first half of the tribulation sound like wrath?

[@rulingchief]

U seen the trump coin?

[@calebogier1465]

A lot of pre trib people use the Jewish wedding to justify there belief in a pre trib would love to hear your thoughts concerning this

[@benny-yj7pq]

A Jewish wedding is one literal week of literal days, this are not Heftaden, that can be convert to years. The Saints may be 10 min our time in Heaven, that is long enough to have the Bema seat and the Wedding after the Tribulation Rev 11:15-18 and 19:6-9. They come back immediately ( Rev 19:11-21; Luke 17:29+30).

[@LyleCooper]

2 Thes. 2 destroys such a view." We must keep in mind that Paul wrote BOTH letters to the Thessalonians, and he certainly did not change his mind between letters. In his first letter, He mentioned the Day of the Lord (John calls it the Day of His wrath) just three verses AFTER his classic rapture passage of 4:17, showing is the proper order is the rapture first, then the start of the Day of the Lord. I suspect these will be back-to-back events with no time between. I like to say, the rapture will be the trigger for the start of the Day. Therefore, we MUST study to show ourselves approved to get Paul's second letter to agree with his first letter: rapture or gathering before wrath. The first problem in this passage is that the KJV missed the tense of a Greek word in verse 2. Here is how it should read. AMP 2 Thes. 2:2: not to be quickly unsettled or alarmed either by a [so-called prophetic revelation of a] spirit or a message or a letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] come. (AMP) Then almost every English translation adds words using the false idea that the Day was only "at hand." ("That day shall not come...") It seems that many people form their theories of this passage by these added words! I believe that in every case, the added words reflect the poor translation of verse 2, that the Day of the Lord was only “at hand.” No, they thought the day had come and they had missed the rapture. Therefore, study verse 3 without any added words. The next problem with this passage is the KJV poor translation of apostasia as a “falling away.” Here is now some of the first translations into English put it. 1384 Wycliffe N.T. That no man deceyue you in any maner / for no but departynge aweye (or dissencon) schal come firste & the man of synne schall be schewid [shewed] the sone of perdicioune. 1534 Tyndale N.T. Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for ... excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion 1535 Coverdale Bible Let no man disceaue you by eny meanes. For ..., excepte the departynge come first, and that Man of Synne be opened, even the sonne of perdicion. 1539 Cranmer Great Bible Let no man deceaue you by any meanes, for ... excepte there come a departinge fyrst, & that that synfull man be opened, the sonne of perdicion. 1549 Matthew's Bible Let no man deceyue you by any meanes, for..., except there come a departyng first, and that, that sinful man be opened, the sonne of perdicyon 1565 Beza Bible Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for [...,] except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, [euen] the son of perdition. 1575 Geneva Bible Let no man deceiue you by any meanes for..., except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition. It goes without saying that Paul must have expected his readers to know what he meant by the significant departing. If we look in his first letter, the significant departing was the rapture. The rapture or gathering was the theme of this passage. Did you notice that in verse 3b the man of sin IS revealed? (Not in reality but in Paul’s argument.) Yet, in verses 6-8 he told us that the man of sin could NOT be revealed until the power restraining that revealed was taken out of the way. Therefore, logic tells us that somewhere in verse 3a we MUST Find something being "taken out of the way." I find only one word in this part of a verse that can be something "taken out of the way." That is in the word "departing." What did Paul mean? What or who will "depart." WHO will they depart from? We need only to refer back to Paul's them. AT the gathering, will something "depart?" Certainly, the church could be said to depart from the rest of the world population. Therefore, Paul has told us that the rapture must come FIRST before the revealing. Paul has also told us that the church, or rather the Holy Spirit working THROUGH the church, is holding back the revealing. What Paul told them, in short, is that when someone sees the great departing, the rapture of the church, THEN sees the man of sin revealed, they can know without a doubt that the Day of the Lord has started, and they are IN IT. It is kind of funny, but the church won't be here to see it!

[@anthonyt0808]

I Corinthians 15 and I Thessalonians 4 both place the Rapture occuring when the 7th trumpet sounds, after the 7 seals opened, and before the 7 vials/bowls (Wrath of God). That places the Rapture somewhere Mid-Trib. So, when you see the Two Witnesses, the Rapture is near. Amen

[@MariaEmmaBelfort]

The problem with placing the abomination of desolation in the future is that there's now no temple, no holy of holiest, and no ark of the covenant now, nor is there an indication in Scripture that there will be one in the future. Therefore that portion of the prophecies of Daniel that refer to the abomination of desolation must have already been fulfilled in the days of Antiochus IV Epiphanes circa 166 BC and then again in 70 AD which is in fact why The Messiah pointed out to His Apostles "when you see..." because as He exactly predicted some of them were indeed still alive when the destruction of the last temple took place in 70 AD.

[@robwagnon6578]

It describes a commands goes out to not harm anything on the Earth until the 'servants of our God' can be marked with his name...It just doesn't seem fair to rescue us rich and comfortable American Christians but so so many Chinese and other ones had to suffer and die for their faith! The harmony of the bible is God does not rescue his people out of trouble but more he strengthens them within that trouble. Like the fiery furnace.

[@There4Stand]

Question: for the abomination of desolation to occur there must be a temple, the millennial Kingdom temple? The rapture occurs prior to the millennial Kingdom and the abomination of desolation. After the rapture, when Christ reigns in the millennial we will reign with Him. Will Christ, His rule and reign occupy the same temple that the abomination of desolation occurred in? I'm only 19 minutes into your teaching, so I may have asked to soon... meaning you may have clarified it. After listening to the entire message, absolutely we need to be Kingdom minded and Kingdom expectant. We must be able to adjust to our given situations regardless of loss. Maintaining and growing deeper in faith. The millennial temple, complete with sanctuary and the arc of the covenant will be built or funded by the 'anti-christ' as a way of gaining the alliance of Israel. But the underlying motive is false. Doesn't it say in Ezekiel that during the time of the millennial we will go back to burnt offerings to God on the alter? And the 'anti-christ' will put an end to the sacrifices? These things will bring about Israel's rejection of the 'anti-christ' and his rule thus bringing tribulation unto the people of Israel? Jacob's trouble? Then Christ will say, enough and come down in the clouds and the rapture will occur. Christ will move against and defeat the 'anti-christ'. Cleanse the temple and He and His people will then rule and reign with Him. These are more or less questions for clarification. The temple will be built in Jerusalem prior to what is considered the millennial rule of Christ. But the 'millennial rule of Christ' begins once Christ has established His rule?

[@seasquawker]

Maybe Solomon the wisest man who ever lived gave us the answer? 1st Kings 3:7-8 Numbers 27:15-18 John 10:1-6 Revelation 7:9 & 17 John 10:4 Exodus 14:19-21 Exodus 15:16-17 Hebrews 12:22-24 Exodus 15:13 Psalm 27:5 Psalm 31:20 "Hide in the secret place of Your presence" Isaiah 26:19-20 Psalm 18:11-16 Exodus 14:19 "Front guard and rear guard" Isaiah 52:10-12 "In the eyes of all the nations" "All the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God." Isaiah 25:7-8, Revelation 7:17, Isaiah 26:1-3 Malachi 4:2-3 2nd Samuel 23:4 Psalm 68:4-8 Psalm 18:16 "The Lord sent from above, He took me, He drew me out of many waters." Revelation 17:1 & 15 Isaiah 17:12-13 Isaiah 52:11 "Come out from the midst of her" Revelation 18:4 "Who is able to stand?" Revelation 6:17 "Who can endure the day of His coming, who is able stand when He appears? Malachi 3:2, Joel 2:11 "Who may stand in Your presence when once You are angry? You caused judgment to be heard from heaven; the earth feared and was still, when God arose to judgment, to deliver all the oppressed of the earth." Psalm 76:7-8, Exodus 15:16 Luke 21:36 "Pray that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man." "I looked, and behold, an innumerable multitude of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues standing before the throne and before the Lamb." Revelation 7:9 Daniel 10:4-11 "Who is able to stand?" 1st Kings 17:1 Genesis 18:22 Exodus 3:5 Joshua 5:15 Jeremiah 15:19 Zechariah 3:1-7 Psalm 24:3-6 Psalm 20:6-8 2nd Samuel 6:14

[@onetakendotnet]

Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib (eating, drinking, etc.) rapture without a resurrection. There is a flash of light and we leave our flesh on earth (Luke 17:37). 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with the one and only resurrection for the saints (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6).

[@benny-yj7pq]

The resurrection of all NT Saints is at the last trump 1.Cor 15:51+52, it is at the 7th trumpet (Rev 10:7+11:15-18) at His 2. coming, before that resurrection Rev 20:4-6 there is no Rapture or Resurrection of the NT Saints. It is 1000 years before the lst one and not 1007. It is when te Heavens are no more (Job 14:12). The flesh in Luke 17:37 refers to one taken the other left taken to oneself is the Rapture the other left is destroyed and eaten by birds at His 2. coming (Mat 24:27-31

[@LyleCooper]

"I cannot find scripture where it is God bringing tribulation on the world for 7 years." First, we find the seven years in Daniel 9:27. In Revelation we find John beginning the Day of the Lord at the 6th seal. Then we find God beginning the 70th week of Daniel at the 7th seal. This places the entire 70th week INSIDE the Day of the Lord, which is God's time of judgment.

[@normmcinnis4102]

I am a pretribber. I have had my share of persecution, plus I have already 'passed' the mark of the beast, so there is no need for me to be here, or any pretrib believer. The 70th week is the time of "Jacob's trouble" not the church's. The whole 'week' is also refered to as the Day of the Lord. Only a literal pretrib rapture will reveal (expose) the Man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

[@rustynut1967]

The falling away is possibly from the church. Mostly those that have their ears tickled by prosperity teachers that claim your best life now and not scriptures like Matthew 16 24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?

[@stevenhyre4324]

Is it true that the Jewish people who reject Jesus as Messiah are expecting a Messiah from the seed of David also , wouldn't t that make him Jewish?

[@benny-yj7pq]

No one can proof, that he is a descendant of David. As the NT says, Joseph and Mary were descendants of King David, that was a fact, everyone could see that in the official documents, no one challenge that. But nowadays no documents exist anymore. Yeshua (Jesus) is the only one on earth, that could ever be the Messiah, because he needs on earthly father from the line of David and Salomon to sit on the throne of David. Joseph recognized Yeshua as his son by presenting Him in the temple as his firstborn, in spite Yeshua was not his natural son, but Joseph received Him as his firstborn, therefore Yeshua has the legal right to sit on the throne of David.. This has to be so, because there is a curse in Jer 22:30 on the descendants of Coniah. The Messiah is not a descendant of the main lump Salomon of the kingly line, but from the root of Jesse, a branch, the seed of the woman (Mary), she comes from Nathan, the son of King David, the virgin being with child. Yeshua said, that the Jews will exept the false Messiah, There are a lot of speculations about the AC, he will arise out of 10 kingdoms, 3 he will defeat. Better to watch and not speculate!

[@LyleCooper]

Is it scriptural to define the rapture in relation to the tribulation period?" Not in those words, but certainly there is scripture that puts the rapture BEFORE the start of the Day of the Lord. Then Revelation places the start of the Day of the Lord a few days (probably the ten days of awe) before the start of the 70th week.

[@gusward2568]

There's a big difference between wrath and revelation, we are here for revelation, but not God's wrath read it closely without wishful thinking

[@LyleCooper]

The first half of the week..."a time of peace, tranquility, etc." It is very very doubtful! There is war going on now and it may well continue somewhere in the world up to Armageddon. Next, the first six trumpet judgments will come during the first half of the week, and they will be ANYTHING but "tranquil." Many people don't understand the chronology here, but God has "Marked" (His word, not mine) the 70th week, with sevens: the 7th seal begins the week with 30 minutes of silence, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint, and the 7th bowl ends the week. Since God will begin the Day of the Lord at the 6th seal, as since Paul tells us the rapture comes before wrath, and since the 70th Week will begin at the 7th seal, we can be sure that the rapture will be Pre-70th week. Also, since God will begin the Day of the Lord and His wrath BEFORE the 70th week, He effectively places the 70th Week INSIDE the Day of the Lord, so that every judgment event of the 70th week will also be a judgment even of the Day of the Lord and so will come iwth His wrath.

[@edwinpastrana6943]

When i read in the bible that there will be a great falling away(apostasy) then i ask who are those who will fall away? Are they believers or unbelievers? But it's very sure they are believers bec.the unbelievers no need to turn away bec.they didn't have relationship with the Lord. Next question is if they are already believers of christ what is the main reason to fall away from their faith to the Lord?I got the answer is when i put myself on a pre-trib believers..yes if i believe those who preach and said that believers will not go through the tribulation then when the rapture doesn't happen before the tribulation and i suffer during this period i will loose my faith in the Lord and his word...and if somebody preach and shows some miracles like what the false prophet will perform then it's very easy for those who believe and hold on to the pre-trib view to be decieve by the anti- christ and the false prophet,they can said that the bible and those promises are not true bec.what they believe pre-trib rapture doesn't happen. Believing on the pre-trib view are very dangerous to the believers, i conclude that pre-trib view used by satan to decieved those believers so that they will be caught un- prepared with the coming of the Lord in the clouds to gather the believers to meet the Lord in the air.The pre-trib believers will be like the five foolish virgins that are caught un- prepared when the Groom comes. The pre-trib teaches and believe on those left behind are still have the second chance to be save if they endure to the end...see what lesson the parable of the ten virgins show us? It's very clear there is no second chance to those who are Left Behind even those 5 foolish virgins are begging the Lord for mercy, very clear the Lord don't give them the second chance.Those who believe in the pre-trib view will be caught un- prepared for the coming great tribulation for the true believers of Christ they will endure even to the end of their life. Brothers and sisters read carefully what the bible teaches about the end times, don't be decieved by satan and believe that you will be rapture before the tribulation but rather be prepared to go through the tribulation like the five wise virgins that they are ready for the coming of the Groom our Lord.God bless 🙏

[@robwagnon6578]

This is not how it reads in Matthew 24, it sounds to me like post Trib or just one return. but then what is the 'first resurrection' spoken of in Revelation?

[@seanc2788]

There are only two resurrections according to Jesus. The resurrection to Life and the resurrection to damnation. The last one happens after the Millennial Reign, after Satan is released for a short time. He goes out to the people of the earth one more time and deceives many to follow him. But they are all destroyed by fire from above. Then all the dead (spiritually) have their bodies and souls put back together so they can stand before the Great White Throne Judgment of Christ. Then it's a one way trip into the lake of fire from there. So that means all the Christians are resurrected before the Millennial reign.

[@ReLair88]

Christ was part of the First Resurrection, so part of it has happened already (Firstfuits of the First Resurrection). The First Resurrection has stages. The Rapture is only one stage of the First Resurrection. It says, "Each in his own order." Not all at the same time. (The same way every Catholic takes part in First Communion, but they don't all take part in it at the same time.)

[@dfkuz]

We are not the same church as the church in Acts! They would not have even let us through the door!

[@thisbetgonzalez2806]

Si lo pueden pasar en español. Gracias bendiciones.

[@yam153]

Ya esta traducido, lo puede encontar en el propio canal. Bendiciones.

[@thisbetgonzalez2806]

@@yam153 gracias mil. Shalom

[@yam153]

@@thisbetgonzalez2806De nada, un placer. Sabbath Shalom!

[@LyleCooper]

"Is there anything biblical that says the church can't be there." Yes, Paul's description of the rapture, along with John's Revelation chronology makes it impossible for the church to be there during the Antichrist's reign.

[@squirreljones3595]

Right, because MAN REMOVES THE CHURCH Matthew 24 9 - 15 Jesus says all nations kill people for Jesus namesake before the Abomination of desolation Jacob's trouble and the Mark of the beast are after the Abomination of desolation

[@LyleCooper]

@@squirreljones3595 "Jesus says all nations kill people for Jesus namesake before the Abomination of desolation" You have made a true statement. However, in verse 6 Jesus said that he was not yet talking about the end. That means the wars, the famines, the death by pestilence, and the murders of people because of God's name. All these things were and still are church age events. How long did Jacob have to work EXTRA for the woman he loved? It was an extra 7 years. Seven years of extra work and seven years of tribulation. I can see why they chose to call the 70th week as "Jacob's trouble." Therefore, it is not the final three and a half years, it is the whole seven years. Jer. 30:7 Alas! for is great, so that none is like it: it is even , but he shall be saved out of it. Now Jeramiah has equated Jacob's trouble to the Day of the Lord, with his use of "that day." It must be then that the 70th week runs parallel with the Day of the Lord. John shows us the truth of this verse, starting the Day of the Lord a few days before He begins the 70th week, so they both run together. I like to say that God will place the entire Week inside the DAY so that every judgment of the Week will come with God's wrath from the DAY.

[@trulyso734]

The thing is there will still be a repentant number out of every tongue tribe nations and peoples (Christ centred loyalists) who'll be standing up against the beasts until the Rev 13 MOTB terror, or Rev 16 (actual post trib) Wrath of God returning on that wicked .. the final grape harvest judgement. Before that, the Rev 7 multitude (actual mid trib saved group) who 'come out of the 1st half tribulation' i.e. at the last heavenly trumpet upon Christ's unfolding of a 6th sealed up prophecy possibly from Daniel's time.. before the abom'n of desolation 70th week by the AC and MOTB rollout by the False Prophet. Pre-trib believers are those hoping to escape all the coming horrors, as per Luke 21:36 (maybe just a chosen few who make themselves chaste and ready now vv34-35) i.e. who have started persevering to take up a stand of faith; tested even now til they are taken up at the earliest by the Lord.. eg as per Rev 3:10 (exact timing remains a mystery just as the Day of the Lord will come suddenly not to anyone's expectation to the day or hour).

[@squirreljones3595]

@@trulyso734 You missed something Revelation 7 9 people of all nations Revelation 7 14 white robes and they came out of the great tribulation Can't be Mid trib Revelation

[@squirreljones3595]

Revelation 14 16 Angel's reaping Revelation 15 2 Saints only Revelation 20 4 Saints only Revelation 20 5 First Resurrection Every time the pre wrath first resurrection is mentioned Only the Saints that overcome the mark of the beast are mentioned The church was never promised the thousand year reign

[@Danielle24]

I'm torn between Post Trib & pre wrath, Matthew 24:29, 2 thessalonians 2:1-4, & John 17:14-15 support that in my opinion.. Perhaps Mark 13:24, 1 Thessalonians 4:13, & 1 Corinthians 15:15, imo..

[@seanc2788]

Actually Matthew 24:1-35 is for the Jews in Judea. Matthew 24:26-51 is for the Gentile church. Once you understand how to break that down and rightly divide, it makes total sense.

[@Danielle24]

@@seanc2788 says who..

[@seanc2788]

@@Danielle24 Says Jesus

[@rulingchief]

Question: will the people living in the “short season satan is release”, have evidence that Christ returned, or will that be hidden by the establishments?

[@rulingchief]

God bless you all! I’m trying hard to learn. Glory to God for the Lamb is worth!

[@benny-yj7pq]

The 2 coming is the only one in scripture after the Tribulation, all others secret comings are man made. He comes in the clouds, meaning in the realm of the clouds, every one will see Him (Mat 24:27+39). There is no secret coming of Christ, if they say, He is here or there, do not believe it.

[@benny-yj7pq]

This is during the Millennium Christ reigns on earth, sure they will know Him. Sorry, I did not understand your question in the first answer.

[@rulingchief162]

@@benny-yj7pq Thanks for replying! God Bless you. But my question is , will Satan try to hide and distort this timeline of the "Millennium Kingdom, in this short season" and change the timeline too confuse the people that expect signs and prophecies that already happened?

[@benny-yj7pq]

@@rulingchief162 Jesus rules in the Millennium, not Satan, who can only do, what God allows him to do to gather the rebellious people to war against the Lord and Israel, but they will be destroyed with fire from Heaven.

[@sasadjordjevic996]

If we believe in Paul Gospel 1 cor 15, 1 - 4 and we are Saved, than we should define dan 9, 27,70th week as Christ Covenant. What about Second half, when it started rev 6, 17 = isaiah 61, 2 Day of vengeance. How long was that day, Iwould say 3, 5 years like Jesus say in Luke 4, 15 - 21 to preach the Gospel for 3, 5 years His Ministry from Earth, but as we knew he was cut off in the midst, So the other half Ministry was from Heaven, after RAPTURE

[@benny-yj7pq]

You err, He was cut off after 483 years means with the end of 483 years, that is 32 AD. It does not say in the midst. The covenant with many is with the Antichrist. At that time Jesus is still in Heaven, it is future. Dan 9:26 speaks about the coming prince, which is the Antichrist, his end is with a flood, he is destroyed at the 2.coming of the Lord, all future. Rev 6:17 is a day of their wrath. Strong's says it is the last day of this age, not days. That is right according to Dan 12:7 and 7:25. The context is the same as Mat 24:29-31, the stars falling from Heaven, the 2. coming with the Rapture and the Wrath (orge) of God, both happen the same day (luke 17:29+30), that are not 3 1/2 years, but one 24 hour day (Zech 14:7), the end of the Great Tribulation and the beginning of the Millennium, Christ is seen on His throne on earth.

[@datepalm1969]

The temple of God was on the hillock of Ophel! (Part 2 of 3) John 5:2 states that a pool (mikvah) named Bethesda was located next to the sheep market in Jerusalem (see Note below). This sheep market was located in close proximity to the "sheep gate" which was located at the northernmost part of the hillock of Ophel (see comments on 2 Chronicles 33:14 above). Note: John 5:2 states that a pool (mikvah) named Bethesda was located next to the sheep market in 'Jerusalem' rather than in the city of David. This is significant because the "sheep gate" was located outside the city of David and on the northernmost side of the hillock of Ophel (see comments on 2 Chronicles 33:14 above). John 9:7 states that Jesus instructed the man who was blind from birth to wash in the pool of Siloam. This took place shortly after Jesus departed from the temple (see John 8:20-59 and John 9:1-6). Although the evidence for this inference is circumstantial, it is highly unlikely that Jesus would instruct a blind man to go to the pool of Siloam if the said pool was not in close proximity to the temple of God where Jesus taught shortly before departing from the temple and meeting the blind man. The hillock of Ophel is approximately 600 feet (or ~183 metres) south of the southern wall of the current falsely named Temple Mount. This is also supported by several historians including the Jewish historian Josephus who was a Levitical priest who actually served in the 'second temple' (i.e. Zerubbabel’s Temple, a.k.a. Herod’s Temple), so it is highly unlikely that the historical records of Josephus are false. The current falsely named Temple Mount is the site of the Roman Fortress Antonia which was nicknamed 'the Rock' because the protruding rock that is now under the Dome of the Rock was located within the boundaries of the Roman fortress. An octagonal Christian church building was later constructed above this protruding rock, which became known as the Dome of the Rock. The Dome of the Rock, which was originally a Christian church building, was converted to an Islamic mosque 🕌 following the conquest of Jerusalem by Muslim Ayyubids led by Saladin in AD 1187. According to the law of the Lord of the Old Testament, only 'living' (i.e. running) water was permissible to be used for washing the vessels used in the temple, and also for washing the sacrificial animals and the Levitical priests who served in the temple-it was not permissible to use still water from cisterns for any services in or at the temple. (Leviticus 14:5-6; 14:50-52; 15:13) During the time of Solomon's Temple, the Gihon Spring was the only source of 'living' (i.e. running) water in Jerusalem within a radius of ~6 miles (~10 kilometres). So, the temple of God had to be located almost directly above the Gihon Spring, which is also the location of the hillock of Ophel. In the book of Acts in the New Testament, the Roman Fortress Antonia is identified as the 'castle' (KJV Bible). The record of apostle Paul being violently attacked by the 'unbelieving' but highly religious Orthodox Jews outside the temple in Jerusalem, which was followed by him being rescued and questioned by the Roman soldiers, strongly infers that the Roman Fortress Antonia (identified as the 'castle'), was at a 'higher' elevation than Herod’s Temple. This is inferred by the words 'down' [the stairs of the 'castle'], and 'up' [the stairs of the 'castle'], and other text. (Acts 21:30-32; 21:35; 21:37; 21:40; 22:24; 23:10; 23:16; 23:20; 23:32) The 'higher' elevation of the Roman Fortress Antonia infers that Herod’s Temple was not located on the current falsely named Temple Mount which is located at the 'very top' of Mount Moriah, but was located at a 'lower' elevation and 'next to' the Roman Fortress Antonia, which due to the topography of the area, can only be 'south' of the Roman Fortress Antonia. From the archaeological aspect, the giant 'Herodian stones' used in the 'foundation' of the current falsely named Temple Mount prove that the current falsely named Temple Mount could not be the site of Herod’s Temple, because Herod the Great only 'renovated' the 'second temple' (Zerubbabel’s Temple), but did not change its 'foundation' which was laid by Zerubbabel ~500 years earlier, and made of much smaller stones that do not have the distinct bevel-like edges as do the giant 'Herodian stones' the average weight of which is around 5 - 10 tonnes, and some are estimated to weigh much, much more. Several other archaeological aspects of the current falsely named Temple Mount, such as the presence of a Roman amphitheater below the Western Wall of the falsely named Temple Mount, preclude the possibility of the current falsely named Temple Mount from being the location of the first two temples of God-a Roman amphitheater on the courtyard of the true temple of God would not be permissible, whereas a Roman amphitheater within the Roman fortress is highly likely! The 'holy place' in Matthew 24:15 is the site of the 'threshing floor' that King David bought from Ornan (a.k.a. Araunah) the Jebusite, and therefore, is the site of Solomon's Temple and Zerubbabel’s Temple (a.k.a. Herod’s Temple). (2 Samuel 24:18-25; 1 Chronicles 21:18-30; 22:1; 2 Chronicles 3:1) The threshing floor of Ornan (a.k.a. Araunah) the Jebusite was located on a farm outside the Jebusite 'city of Jebus' (identified as the 'fort' in 2 Samuel 5:9 KJV). Due to the generation of grain dust during winnowing, a threshing floor cannot be located within a city or village. Therefore, the said threshing floor was outside the city of Jebus which was renamed the 'city of David' after it was conquered by King David (2 Samuel 5:9). As the population of the city of Jerusalem increased, the city of Jerusalem extended especially in a northward direction, and the site of the said threshing floor and therefore the site of Solomon's Temple ended up being within the boundary of the city of Jerusalem, but not within the city of David.

[@hanab837]

Clearly, those seven years are tribulation from/allowed by God. It starts when Jesus opens the seals! How can that NOT be a judgement from God?

[@issuesthatmatter2825]

The tribulation is Satan's time to wage war on the church. Rev12v17

[@seanc2788]

That's correct. The entire Tribulation is governed by God. None of it is controlled by Satan. He plays his little role, but he doesn't control the judgments.

[@issuesthatmatter2825]

@@seanc2788 you are wrong per scripture

[@seanc2788]

@@issuesthatmatter2825 Which scripture states that I am wrong? You better get real specific with me.

[@issuesthatmatter2825]

@@seanc2788 rev12v17 the antichrist wages war with the church.

[@writethevisionministry3050]

The unique position of a mid-trib rapture is that it is the only position that positively identifies Paul's 'last trump' of our gathering together in Rev 10:7 through Rev 12:5 midway in.

[@LyleCooper]

"Pre-tribbers believe all the 7 years is God's wrath..." I believe it for the simple reason, God will begin the Day of His wrath at the 6th seal, and will begin the 70th week at the 7th seal, where there will be 30 minutes of silence. God has marked the 70th week with sevens: the 7th seal begins it, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th bowl ends it. Since 6 comes before 7 in counting, we can be assured that the rapture will come before wrath. All the pre-wrathers imagine the 70th week starting at the first seal. They are pulling that first seal out of its 32 AD context. (Jesus took the book and began opening the seals as soon as He ascended (Rev. 5) So God will place the entire Week inside the Day of the Lord, so every judgment of the week will come with God's wrath. One thing it seems many people miss: at the 7th trumpet, Jesus takes to Himself His great power and REIGNS. The planet has been given back to Him. From this moment on, EVERY event on earth is HIS WILL! He has had saints praying for His will to be done in earth and at the 7th trumpet it begins. In other words, EVERY EVENT of the days of great tribulation are God's will on earth being carried out. In other words, every person behead got beheaded in the will of the Father. It is all HIS PLAN. So Satan will begin murdering the saints, but it will be God who gave him the 42 months to accomplish HIS WILL. The 70th week is HIS WILL.

[@datepalm1969]

The temple of God was on the hillock of Ophel! (Part 1 of 3) Numerous passages of scripture in the Old Testament, and a few in the New Testament, provide geographical landmarks (e.g. names of gates, pools, etc), and geo-directional (compass) points (north, east, south, west), which function as geographical coordinates of sorts, and prove that Solomon's Temple was located on the hillock of Ophel. (Nehemiah 3:1-32; 3:15; 3:26-27; 12:37; 1Kings 8:64; 2 Kings 15:35; 2Chronicles 7:7; 27:3; 32:5; 32:30; 33:14; Isaiah 22:9-11; Ezekiel 47:1-2; John 5:2; 9:7; Acts 21:30-32; 21:35; 21:37; 21:40; 22:24; 23:10; 23:16; 23:20; 23:32) Nehemiah 3:15 infers that: - 🔹The fountain gate was in close proximity to the pool of Siloah (a.k.a. Siloam); and 🔹The pool of Siloah (a.k.a. Siloam) was next to the king's garden. Nehemiah 3:26 infers that the east side of the hillock of Ophel was right next to the water gate which was on the east wall. Nehemiah 3:27 infers that the 'great tower' (i.e. the big tower) was at the wall of Ophel. The big tower was constructed at the wall of Ophel for a purpose: to defend Solomon's Temple from a military attack. This implies that Solomon's Temple was located on the hillock of Ophel rather than north of Ophel on the site of the current falsely named Temple Mount. Nehemiah 12:37 states that: - 🔹The fountain gate was located in the city of David; and 🔹The house of David was located next to the eastern wall between the fountain gate and the water gate. Nehemiah 12:37 therefore infers that the house of David was located in the city of David immediately south of the hillock of Ophel; i.e. abutting the southern boundary of the courtyard of Solomon's Temple. 1 Kings 8:64 and 2 Chronicles 7:7 state that the larger of the two altars in the courtyard of Solomon's Temple was located in the 'middle' of the courtyard of Solomon's Temple, and therefore, east of the smaller brazen altar. So, the large altar was located between the brazen altar and the "east gate" on the east wall of Jerusalem. This geographical reference is useful for determining the location of the brazen altar relative to the east gate in Ezekiel 47:1-2. 2 Kings 15:35 and 2 Chronicles 27:3 state that King Jotham (one of the few good kings), built the "higher gate" of the house of the Lord, and on the wall of Ophel he built much. This infers that the house of the Lord (i.e. Solomon's Temple) was located either on, or at least in very close proximity to, the hillock of Ophel. 2 Chronicles 32:5 states that Millo was located 'in' the city of David. However, the word 'in' in 2 Chronicles 32:5 (KJV) is in italics, meaning that it was added by the translators. 2 Samuel 5:9 states or infers that Millo was the northern boundary of the city of David and the rest of the city of Jerusalem; and the hillock of Ophel was located immediately north of the Millo. 2 Samuel 5:9 KJV So David dwelt in the fort, and called it the city of David. And David built round about from Millo and inward. 2 Chronicles 32:30 states that King Hezekiah stopped the upper watercourse of the Gihon Spring, and brought it straight down to the west side of the city of David. Although Solomon's Temple was located very close to the Millo which was located on the northern boundary of the 'city of David' (as distinct from the 'city of Jerusalem'), between the city of David and the hillock of Ophel, the diversion of the 'upper watercourse' away from the northern side of the city of David to the 'west' side of the city of David infers that Solomon's Temple was in close proximity to the city of David because adequate supply of water required for temple services was still achievable despite the diversion of water from the upper watercourse. 2 Chronicles 33:14 states that King Manasseh (see Note below the most evil king of the southern 2-tribe Kingdom of Judah until he repented; see 2 Chronicles 33:12) built a new wall 'outside' the city of David. The new wall was located on the west side of the Gihon Spring that was in the 'valley' (Kidron Valley), and it 'compassed' (surrounded) the hillock of Ophel and extended to the fish gate, which infers that this new wall was on the east and north sides of the hillock of Ophel. Although not explicitly stated here, it is reasonable to infer that the primary purpose of building this new wall was to provide security for not only the citizens of Jerusalem, but also for something of great value that was located on the hillock of Ophel-the Solomon's Temple! Note: King Manasseh was the most evil king of the southern 2-tribe Kingdom of Judah (see 2 Chronicles 33:1-10), until he was imprisoned in Babylon for a short term by the king of Assyria at which time he 'humbled himself greatly before the Lord (2 Chronicles 33:11-13). The passage of scripture in 2 Chronicles 33:14-20 describes the good things that King Manasseh did during the later part of his life after he humbled himself 'greatly' before the Lord (see 2 Chronicles 33:12). After being freed from his imprisonment in Babylon, King Manasseh built a new wall on the north side of the city of David (i.e. on the north side of the Millo), which 'compassed' (surrounded) the east and north sides of the hillock of Ophel (2 Chronicles 33:14). This new section of wall was built in response to a perceived and imminent threat to not only the city of Jerusalem, but also to the entire southern 2-tribe Kingdom of Judah (see the last part of 2 Chronicles 33:14). It is inconceivable that King Manasseh would build a wall around the hillock of Ophel if Solomon's Temple was located north of the hillock of Ophel on the current falsely named Temple Mount-that does not make sense from a military strategic aspect for the defence of Solomon's Temple. Therefore, it is reasonable to infer that Solomon's Temple was located on the south side of the new wall, and when other geographical markers are taken into consideration (e.g. the location of the Millo), can only infer that Solomon's Temple was located on the hillock of Ophel. Isaiah 22:9 infers that the 'lower pool' was located in the city of David. This 'lower pool' in the city of David is not identified by a name: it could be the pool of Siloam in close proximity to the fountain gate at the south-east side of the city of David, or another pool (mikvah) at the southern side of the city of David. However, because the 'lower pool' (i.e. mikvah) was one of several pools (i.e. mikvahs) which was used by Levitical priests for ceremonial washing before they served in the temple of God, it is reasonable to infer that Solomon's Temple was located in close proximity to the 'lower pool' in the city of David which was the first and the oldest part of the considerably greater city of Jerusalem; i.e. the city of David was like a suburb of the considerably larger city of Jerusalem. Isaiah 22:10-11 states that the houses of the city of Jerusalem were broken down to fortify the wall of Jerusalem, and a ditch was constructed between the two walls for the water of the “old pool” which was probably the pool of Siloam (John 9:7), or the king’s pool (Nehemiah 2:14), because the pool of Siloam was the first pool that was constructed to serve as a mikvah for ceremonial washing of Levitical priests when they served in the temple of God. Irrespective of the exact identity of the “old pool” in Isaiah 22:11, this “pool” is another geographical reference that infers that Solomon's Temple was located in close proximity to the 'city of David' and to the “old pool” (most likely the pool of Siloam). The passage of scripture in Ezekiel 40:1 through Ezekiel 48:35 is a 'prophetic vision' of the temple of God in the New Jerusalem during the New Millennium and beyond. Ezekiel 47:1-2 provides geographical reference markers of certain gates and the source of water for temple services. Although this is a prophetic vision depicted by imagery, the temple of God in the New Jerusalem is nonetheless modelled on the temple of God in the Old Testament of the Bible. Ezekiel 47:1-2 states that: - 🔹The waters issued from under the threshold of the door on the east side of the house of the Lord (i.e. the threshold of the main entrance which was on the east side of the temple). 🔹The forefront (i.e. the front) of the house of the Lord stood toward the east (i.e. faced east). 🔹The waters came down from under from the right side of the house of the Lord at the south side of the 'altar' (the smaller brazen altar, as distinct from the larger altar that King Solomon built for larger sacrifices (see comments on 1 Kings 8:64 and 2 Chronicles 7:71 above). 🔹The waters ran on the right side of the 'utter gate' that faced toward the east, but was located in close proximity to the northern gate. Ezekiel 47:1-2 infers that the temple of God in the New Jerusalem will be located very close to a source of 'running' (a.k.a. 'living') water, as did the first two temples (Solomon's Temple, and Zerubbabel’s Temple a.k.a. Herod’s Temple), and also as the yet to be built third temple of God during Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:27).

[@LyleCooper]

"one taken and one left..." is there any scripture that proves the one taken is the rapture? I have found no scripture to prove these are rapture passages. It seems rather that the ones taken are taken in judgment.

[@trulyso734]

Yep. In context of Matt 24 I agree.

[@LyleCooper]

"we come out of that great persecution by the rapture..." There are good reasons why this in not the intent of the scriptures. First, John has not yet arrived at even the beginning of the 70th week here in chapter 7, much less has he arrived at the midpoint abomination where the days of great tribulation (GT) Jesus spoke of would start. In Revelation the days of GT Jesus spoke do not begin until late in chapter 14. They continue through chapter 15 into chapter 16, where God pours out the bowls of His wrath with the plagues to SHORTEN those days of GT. Second, Paul shows us the rapture will come just before wrath, and John shows us wrath begins at the 6th seal. John then saw this crowd just after the 6th seal. it just makes good sense that they are the raptured church. With these thoughts in mind, it seems VERY doubtful that John wrote chapter 7 out of order. If so it is the only think in His book out of order. Therefore, I think it impossible. I think these two events in chapter 7 MUST take place here before God allows the HURT of the 70th week to begin at the 7th seal and first trumpet. Therefore, there MUST be a different meaning to the "great tribulation" in this case. Some translations use different words: great hardship, great persecution, or great suffering. We don't know which idea the Author had in mind. I wonder why the elder say that these had washed their robes in the blood of Jesus. This is something INDIVIDUAL. It is like he was saying "each one got born again to be able to join this group." If this is the case, then each one "came out" of a life of sin. Living as a sinner is a very hard life!

[@LyleCooper]

WHY did John break from his narrative of the seals, between the 6th and 7th seal, for an intermission (Chapter 7)? Have you ever watched a play where they pull the curtains between acts of the play? What happens behind the curtain? They are rearranging the setting to fit the next act. This is what John is doing. The great 70th Week of Daniel, and the time of Jacob's trouble, which will start with GREAT HURT upon the earth. God our FAther MUST see two events happen (rearranging the setting) before He will allow the 7th seal to be opened. 1. God MUST see that the 144,000 Hebrews are sealed for their protection. 2. God MUST see the church safely in heaven, away from His wrath. When these two events are accomplished, written in the chapter 7 intermission, THEN God will allow Jesus to open the 7th seal and begin the HURT.

[@trulyso734]

Sounds good. Thanks for that visionary feast

[@LyleCooper]

"The 6th seal only announces the Day of the Lord." No, John wrote, "the Day of His wrath IS COME. This comes from a Greek Aorist tense verb, which is a verb with action but NO TIMING. These Aorist (or NO tense) verbs cannot be translated accurately into English for all English verbs include tense information. I believe the intent of such scriptures is that the action is to begin at the timing of the verse written. Therefore, when John wrote, "is come," we can take that to mean, right then at that verse, God's wrath begins. It could therefore be that the earthquake at the 6th seal comes with God's wrath, or maybe not. I suspect it does. But then there are no judgments until the first trumpet judgment, a few days after the 6th seal start of God's wrath. If we study the earthquake written in Isaiah 2, it seems John copied from Isaiah 2 nearly word for word, and Isaiah declared the earthquake as God's wrath. Since people try to hide from God's wrath because of this great earthquake, it makes good sense that the earthquake will be the first event of God's wrath. Therefore, to work backward from "is come" and declare all the seals are wrath, is error. To say that God's wrath really does not start until later is also error. God's wrath will begin at the 6th seal and with the events of the 6th seal, exactly as written. Then, a few days later and inside the Day of the Lord, the 7th seal will begin the 70th week.

[@ReLair88]

I found this confusing. A visual time line with labels would be helpful. Note...I am not pre-trib. Jesus said, without a doubt, that AFTER the Abom of Des there would be great tribulation. He emphasized it, saying it would be the worst in history. I would think the longer it goes, the worst it gets, meaning that the greater tribulation comes later in time, not earlier in time. But then you say "the great tribulation" is before the Abom. of Des, which means in the first half before the A of D. How could "The Great Trib" be in the first half, when Jesus said AFTER the Abom of Des is great tribulation? How could "the great Tribulation" which the Church goes through in the first half, you say, be termed as that and yet not be "great tribuation" that Jesus talked about in the 2nd half? Did he completely ignore "the Great Trib" in the first half in Matt 24, but make a POINT of saying that there is great tribulation (worst in history) in the 2nd half, after the Abom of Des? Are you saying that there is a "the great tribulation" for the Church in the first half and then the Time of Jacob's Trouble in the 2nd half for the Jewish people? Why did Jesus emphasize the greatness of Jacob's trouble, but he ignored "the great Tribulation" for the Church and didn't point it out in Matt 24? Is Jacob's trouble greater than the Church's "the Great Tribulation"? Prewrathers believe that the Church is in the A/C great Tribulation AFTER the Abom of Des (which is cut short, they say). Then the Rapture, then the Wrath.

[@leialee6820]

I agree as well that I found it confusing. I thought he believed in a pre-trib rapture from what I heard before. I am not sure at all what is being said anymore. May be a teaching without a question & answer session would be better?

[@ReLair88]

@@leialee6820 I found better videos of his that aren't as confusing. I have listened to a number of his videos since this one that have clarified his position for me. He says he is pre-wrath, but he expects the Rapture to be shortly after the Abom of Des at the midpoint. I do agree with his stance. I son't agree with TRUE pre-wrathers who think the Rapture is close to the end of the 7 years--like a few months or weeks before the end.

[@leialee6820]

@@ReLair88 Yes, until this & a previous one of his videos I had never heard of the term pre- wrath of God as It was all put together as one Tribulation. How old were the previous videos you have since looked at? I will try & find them & it may help me. I was against pre-trib before because it implied we would not have to experience any suffering. I did adhere to the method of the tribulation happening on Jesus return & together we would meet him up in the air & reign with him as it made a lot of sense by a teacher on yt that said where does it say he is coming back 3 times. I was also more inclined therefore to go from that to mid-trib. I am fully open to adjust my views according to God's word & what other teachers & preachers say so my mind remains open. Plus if we experience tribulation & suffering for being a Christian from Satanic forces & evil rather than from God that makes a lot of sense as God is not punishing us himself but I was never for the idea that we would or could not expect to receive some suffering as some people state. I have only just discovered this Jewish preacher/teacher & so I am watching quite a lot of his videos - Good & Biblically based. I like his humility because not every preacher/teacher can get everything right as none of us are perfect & their own views in certain areas are therefore open to change as well. Thank you for your reply. God Bless You. 💟✝️🛐💜

[@slowhand63]

Mid-Tribulation

[@sasadjordjevic996]

brother , antichrist build a temple in human heart MRNA jabs, he appear desolate that temple, it is spiritual issue not literal Solomon temple

[@valeriewatring8245]

Totally agree!!! We are made in the image of God, Satan wants to change our genes and put his own mark in our genes. To sit where God sits just like in the days of Noah. Daniel, mixing iron and clay. revelation 18:23, sorcery/pharmakia.

[@redeemed3186]

I disagree! What mid and post tribs always ignore is the bride and wedding ceremony and feast. (Jesus-Bride Groom Church-Bride) The marriage ceremony and wedding feast is an exact reflection of the Galillean wedding tradition. Only the father of the groom knew when he would alert the groom it's time to receive the bride. And would always blow the shofar (trumpet) at midnight when everyone was asleep while gathering those prepared and watching out for this event. If you were found asleep and not ready ,And those who missed the alert at midnight and showed up late were locked out for a seven days ceremony and feast! It's not a matter of when the rapture is! It's a matter of why! The bride is not here during the tribulation!

[@LyleCooper]

Brothers, it would be wiser to use the term, Daniel's 70th week, rather than "the tribulation." It would also be better to say "days of great tribulation." Jesus NEVER put a title on any part of the 7 years. What He did say was "those days" of "great tribulation."

[@Dr.Judy.N.Lubega]

I think there is still one thousand more years. I don't think the tribulation is near

[@leialee6820]

Why would you think that? I don't think this world can survive in it's current form for much longer with all the evil in it. The 1,000 years of peace when Jesus Comes in all his glory to usher in a 1,000 years of peace comes when Jesus returns at the Mount of Olives & stops the persecution of Israel at the Battle of Armageddon & they then start fighting themselves in confusion.

[@josuef1166]

Pre -wrath outside of week 70. Since there were different doctrines, I determined to know the truth on this matter and began to pray and search the scriptures. There are different positions on that event and not all agree on time and it is obvious that there are not several truths but only one truth that comes from God. I come closer to the pre-wrath doctrine, only the wrath of God is outside the 70th week and not inside it as is regularly taught. Wrath is a Biblically measurable time and lasts approximately 3 years outside of the 7 years of Apocalypse. As they started the video, it is essential to know the times of God and the church has always been in tribulation even since the birth of our messiah, where Satan may have killed him even as a child. Therefore, the church has been in tribulation and what is expected is a time of great tribulation in those 7 years that are missing for the culmination of this system of things or this world as we know it. The 70th week does not start with an antichrist covenant. That character will only manifest after the first half or second period of that week. He will receive power to act with the beast for 42 months or that is half of the week and not the whole week. The 70th week begins with the beginning of the continuous sacrifice in that temple that will be holy since the antichrist will desecrate it. He must understand that only what is holy can be profaned and that is what the antimessiah will do in the temple, he will desolate it from the presence of God for a time until it is restored again in the millennium and it will be the fourth temple. Dr. Baruch read John 5: 39-47 there clearly Jesus the true messiah alludes that they did not receive him, but if another comes in his name they will receive him. For a short period of time many Jews will follow him as messiah, but when he does his abomination of desolation they will leave him and will no longer follow him and will look at the true messiah whom they pierced and cry as one cries for an only begotten son. Only a Jew could proclaim himself the messiah and not of another nationality because no one would follow him, besides that people still expect a messiah and the devil will give it to them as they want or as they expect and will deceive them for a while. In week 70 not all 7 seals occur. Not the 7 trumpets, nor the 7 bowls, nor the 7 thunders. In week 70 only seals 3,4,5,6 occur. Seals 1 and 2 have already occurred and cover the birth of Jesus and satan when he sends his demons to destroy Jesus even as a child. The seals cover from the birth of Jesus, to the rapture of the church in the 6th seal and the 7th seal is the beginning of the wrath of God and for this moment the church is in heaven, while on earth the wrath of God occurs. God with an approximate duration of 3 years. That's right Brother Cristian there is another position that you did not touch there and it is this that the wrath of God does not occur within the 70th week, but after it. The entire 70th week will be confirmation of the covenant of the messiah and not partial. throughout the week the dead in Christ or that is to say those who die for Him, will be resurrecting and in the end only those who remain will be raptured and not the whole church as some postulate. I liked Cristian's comment that said that by teaching the pre-tribulation rapture many will be lost because they will not know what to do when they have to live these times and it is correct, that teaching does not allow people to learn what will happen there and they have with a false expectation that when they see reality they will not know what to do and many will be lost, Jesus said so. God continue to bless you!

[@Pre-Tribulation]

Here is the problem with pre wrath. The Elders are in Heaven before the 1st seal is opened. They aren't the saints of Tribulation, see Revelation 7:13-17. They are on Earth sitting on thrones in Revelation 20:4. They fit with Days of Noah and Days of Lot, where you have escape, then judgment. God bless

[@josuef1166]

@@Pre-Tribulation pre-wrath The seals cover the period of history from the birth of Jesus the Messiah to the rapture of the church in the sixth seal and this is chapter 6 of Revelation. In Revelation 7 you see the church in heaven and it comes out of the tribulation, that is, they come from it. Chapters of Revelation 8,9,10,11 are about the wrath of God. Therefore the concept Pre wrath of God is correct. Before the wrath of God the church is in heaven, but not before the seals, if not in the sixth seal. The Angels fall from the sky and pick up the figs that the fig tree drops, Israel and the church represent the fig tree, the church was grafted in Romans 11

[@Pre-Tribulation]

@@josuef1166 the saints show up, then ALL who dwell on the Earth don't have their names written in the Book of Life, Revelation 13:8. This is s Revelation of Daniel's last week of Daniel's Prophecy. It's when evil is stamped out. We can follow the saints path for 42 months.

[@josuef1166]

@@Pre-Tribulation Paul writes to the saints of the church in Ephesus 1:1. the church is made up of saints, due to the persecution we will not be congregated or reunited. those saints that you mentioned in Revelation 13 are the saints that make up the church, which God speaks to them from now on. Nowhere in that text does it indicate that they stayed from some abduction. What the text indicates is that those who are not registered in the book of life will worship the beast and be sealed. infers that those saints will not do it, they will not worship the beast, nor will they be sealed because their name is inscribed in the book of life. God continue to bless you!

[@Pre-Tribulation]

@@josuef1166 im talking about the ones refusing THE MARK

[@sasadjordjevic996]

You have 3 Rapture, Pre Paul Gospel, Mid Peter Gospel, Post Everlasting gospel

[@benny-yj7pq]

There is only one Rapture of the NT Saints and one gospel of the Kingdom, it is the new covenant, an everlasting one with Abraham and his seed, Christ.

[@Pre-Tribulation]

@@benny-yj7pq actually their are two Raptures. One for the Church before the Tribulation starts. Then the 144,000 sealed Jews are redeemed to the throne from the Earth, or harpazo'ed. See Revelation 14:1-4

[@sasadjordjevic996]

@@benny-yj7pq NEW COVENANT WAS CHRIST GOSPEL GIVEN TO PAUL

[@benny-yj7pq]

@@sasadjordjevic996 All covenants belong to Israel, the Gentiles are coheirs with the Israel of God, spiritual Israel, Jew and Gentile are one new creation in Christ, grafted into the natural tree of Israel, belonging to the commonwealth of Israel.

[@sasadjordjevic996]

@@benny-yj7pq so CHRIST COVENANT, DAN 9, 27 BELONG TO ISRAEL

[@tammystempky5709]

In John 11 read 1 to 25 Martha brother Lazarus had died in verse 25 she said to Jesus that I know that I will see my brother Again in the Resurrection on the Last Day Jesus did not correct her and say no Martha you will see your brother 7 years before the Last Day instead in verse 26 Jesus assured her that he was the Resurrection etc. In The book of Revelation 20 verse 6 it says Blessed is he who takes part in the FIRST resurrection this shows very clearly that the resurrection is on the Last Day as Martha said to Jesus Therefore there cannot be 2 resurrections one a pre trib and one at the last day only one is correct and the rapture according to this is on the last day so if pretrib was correct were would that put the great tribulation saints at . And as far as we are not appointed onto wrath is true it will be Satan's wrath thru men that will behead all true faithful Christians at the 5th seal and God's wrath pours out after this is complete therefor we will not be under God's wrath its Satan's wrath thru antichrist and the evil men of this world we are Very near to the final 7 years antichrist that was but is not but returns none other then Donald Trump check out brother James Key his older stuff first on utube the post tribulation is the Correct view

[@datepalm1969]

The sixth (6th) seal announces, portends, and reassures! The sixth (6th) seal: - 🔹By inference announces the coming of Christ on the cloud ☁️ (Revelation 6:16; see Note 1 below); 🔹Portends (or warns) God’s wrath (Revelation 6:17a; see Note 2 below); and 🔹Confirms and reassures that the two groups of people (the New Testament saints who are faithful, and the special group of 144,000 individuals from the twelve tribes of Israel), will not be subjected to God’s wrath (Revelation 6:17b; see Note 3 below). Note 1: Because Revelation 6:16 infers that the ungodly people of the world will 'see' the face of Christ who will be seated on the throne, it periphrastically (in a roundabout way) announces the coming of Christ on the cloud ☁️. Note 2: Although the sixth (6th) seal portends (or warns) God’s wrath (Revelation 6:17a), God's wrath will not begin until the first (1st) trumpet 📯 (Revelation 8:7). Note 3: In Revelation 6:17 (KJV), the question, "Who shall be able to stand?" is both a warning and reassurance to the New Testament saints who are faithful to the end. So, the question is like a double-edged sword: - 🔹It reminds and warns that only those who are 'endure to the end' (Matthew 10:22; Mark 13:13) will be 'be able to stand' (obviously on the condition that they remain faithful to the end); and 🔹Periphrastically (in a roundabout way) the said question confirms and reassures those New Testament saints, including the special group of 144,000 individuals who are the 'firstfruits' (Revelation 14:4) from the twelve (12) tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:1-8), that they will be raptured when Christ comes on the cloud ☁️ (Revelation 6:16; 14:14-16). That said, at face value, the said question appears only to warn. However, once the scripture is studied by 'rightly' (correctly, properly) 'dividing' (cutting up or dissecting for the purpose of analysis, as distinct from 'butchering and discarding'), the 'word of truth' (the scriptures in the Bible), a lot of information is unpacked from the few words in a scripture! Notice that Revelation 6:16 infers that the ungodly people of the world will 'see' Christ sitting on the throne, which is consistent with 'every eye shall see him' in Revelation 1:7.

[@Pre-Tribulation]

The Elders are IN HEAVEN before the 1st seal is opened. See Revelation 5:9. The Elders are the Church representatives! They will rule on Earth as Kings and Priests, Revelation 5:10. In Revelation 20:4, we see the Elders ON EARTH sitting on thrones and power of JUDGMENT is given to them, Revelation 20:4. The only resurrection I see at the return are for the saints. The Elders outrank the saints. The saints do not follow Days of Noah and Days of Lot about ESCAPE then Judgment like the Elders do. The Church is the Elders and the saints weren't saved before the Rapture. They had to endure until the end by refusing to worship the Beast and refuse the Mark unto death.

[@Kman.]

Most e/thing could be addressed/refuted in your postS, but one thing that _JUMPED_ out at me was where you said the following..."Note 2: Although the sixth (6th) seal portends (or warns) God’s wrath (Revelation 6:17a), God's wrath will not begin until the first (1st) trumpet 📯 (Revelation 8:7)." Actually, it's not a "WARNING" as you suggest, but rather a declaration from LOST people, that yes...the wrath of God is what we _HAVE BEEN_ (past tense) been witnessing.

[@benny-yj7pq]

@@Kman. Wrong, the wrath of God (orge) comes at His 2. coming and is only one day (Luke 17:29+30). Rev 6:17 is the day of their wrath and the last day of this age (Strong's). The wrath is treated by the Lord at His second coming (Rev 19:15) and that is the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:18) and at the 7th bowl (Rev 16:17).

[@Kman.]

@@benny-yj7pq Ohhh...Benny, you're still here? *:)* I see you're offering up some SUMMARY statements on verses, but let's take a closer look, shall we? I'm no Greek scholar, but I DO u/stand when s/one in *ENGLISH* puts it on the bottom shelf in explaining what the Greek says. *=====>* "IS COME" in the Greek, is the aorist, indicative, active tense. The aorist tense is the Greek grammarian’s term for a simple past tense, that an action HAS happened. It presents the action or the event as something real or certain, as an objective fact. There is an ONGOING aspect is the usage. It is a situation that actually IS, as opposed to a situation that might be, wished for, or commanded TO be or WILL be. In o/words, the "WRATH" in *Rev 6:17* is not s/thing that is imminent...it will have been taking place since day one of the tribulation. Add to that... *Rev 15:1* tells us that the wrath as a WHOLE is being completed when it says, "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven LAST plagues; for IN THEM is *FILLED UP THE WRATH* of God." And praise God, we're told in SEVERAL passages, that the church simply is *NOT* scheduled/appointed to the WRATH of the tribulation! Go ahead Benny, it's OK to rejoice. We could expand on all of this, but to be honest, for ME, this pretty much settles it/ Proceed with your denial, but DO consider a biblical refutation this time *;)

[@benny-yj7pq]

@@Kman. "is come" in English is present tense, as an aorist it should be translated "has come". You are right, some of the wrath of God has happened already. But the verse does not say, the wrath has been till day one of the Tribulation. Strong's says this is a day of 24 hours, the last day of this age, We find the same tense of "is come" or "has come" in Rev 11:18. Here we have more information about this event. Jesus reigns on earth, it is His 2. coming (11:15+17) ; His wrath has come, when the nations were angry (Armageddon), Jesus comes back to save Israel and the Rapture happens, now they are in Heaven, and it is time to judge the dead in Christ and give reward at the Bema Seat after the Rapture and come back to earth with His Saints to judge them, that destroyed the earth. The Rapture happens at His 2.coming together with the Sudden Destruction of the wicked as it was in the day of Lot (Luke 17:29+30) and in the days of Noah (Mat 24:39+40). The Day of the Lord is one day, 24 hours (Zech 14:7). Rev 15:1 the literal translation of biblehub is different than the KJV, it says "having seven plagues - the last, because in them was completed the wrath of God . Here the wrath is completed with the last plague, the 7th bowl (Rev 16:17=it is done, completed). Strongs says for "en autais" with (which = the last) the wrath of God (thymos) will be completed. Note it is not the orge wrath of 1. Thess 5:9 etc, we are not appointed to. Only the last bowl goes together with the orge wrath of God (Rev 16:15-20).and completes the wrath of God at His 2. coming. There is no orge wrath in the Tribulation! I do not deny scripture, nor do I make assumptions, when texts are different than the bible says otherwise, I go first to the Greek and Hebrew and look what they say. You base your doctrine an assumptions and use controversial scriptures for your doctrine and twisting Mat 24:27-31 and 2.Thess 2::1-3.

[@LyleCooper]

Who are those in that great crowd, too large to number? I submit that this large group is the just-raptured church. (They were raptured just before the 6th seal start of wrath.) I know, many think they are came out of the days of great tribulation caused by the Antichrist beast. That cannot be, because John has not yet started the 70th week, much less has he arrived at the midpoint of the week (Chapter 11.) The truth is, there are different "great tribulation's" in scripture. Many people believe this elder speaking to John is going to tell John how this huge group, as a group, got from earth to heaven. That is not the answer given. The answer given is how EACH SINGLE MEMBER of the group JOINED the group. They joined this group by being born again. John wrote that they washed their robes in the blood of Jesus. That only means, they were born again. John wrote that they came OUT...so what did each member of this group come OUT OF as they were born again? They CAME OUT of a life is sin as someone lost and on their way to hell. God is telling us here that living away from God and living a life of sin is a life in tribulation. Remember, Jesus said, in this life we will have tribulation. How then about the "GREAT?" God combined all the individual tribulation suffered by those living away from God (the life they came OUT of) so each individual tribulation was multiplied by the number in the group, which will probably be billions of saints. It is no word God called it great. "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." For those that think John did not write Revelation in order, I find that would show Revelation to NOT be in perfect chronology.

[@dfkuz]

How about the truth that all of Biblical Israel’s prophecy was canceled at their final fall/divorce in Acts 28:28-31 KJV so no rapture (that verse in 1 Thess 4 is the failed second coming!), no tribulation great or otherwise except for 2 Timothy 3:13 KJV, no kingdom for Israel, but a kingdom that belongs to Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:13 KJV) so he decides who will live in it with him (the one new man, Ephesians 2:15 KJV)! Time to realize that Israel said NO to God’s offer of remarriage so he owes her absolutely nothing! The “rapture verses” in the gospels and in epistles written during Acts - no matter WHAT they are - have absolutely no application to or for US today! Why? Because there were no regular Gentiles (pagans) in ANY of the churches in Acts (and possibly even after that!) and Jesus wasn’t addressing any Gentiles at all with his prophetic statements (Matthew 15:24 KJV)! It was all Israel’s prophecy ALL the TIME until Paul uttered Acts 28:28 KJV and pagan Scythians saved by faith in Christ are personally addressed by Paul in Ephesians and Colossians! Christians today are out of God’s will if they ignorantly apply Israel’s doctrine and prophecy to themselves! Israel’s kingdom was still in view during Acts and Paul’s words in Acts 26:22-23 and Acts 28:20-31 KJV bear witness to that fact! Time for the church today to wake up and recognize the scripture that is written specifically to and for us and it’s only certain sections of Ephesians and Colossians that do! Hard truth: We are an afterthought in God’s word - but a very crucial afterthought! Salvation became an individual offer when the corporate salvation of national Israel was withdrawn at the close of Acts, along with its attendant prophecy!

[@datepalm1969]

Mount Zion is the highest peak on Mount Hermon!!! Contrary to the definitions of the words 'Sion' and 'Zion' in Strong's Concordance and in most Bible concordances, Bible lexicons, Bible dictionaries, etc, Mount Sion/Zion is not on or at Mount Moriah in Jerusalem, but is the name of the highest of the three (3) peaks on Mount Hermon!!! (Deuteronomy 4:48) The terms, Zion, Mount Zion, Sion, and Mount Sion, are the ALTERNATIVE names of the city of Jerusalem for reasons described further below. In the Bible text, it is not uncommon for cities, places, nations, and even individual persons, to be designated with more than one name or title by which it or he/she is identified. Examples: - 🔹The Hebrew month of Nisan (Nehemiah 2:1; Esther 3:7) is also identified by its original name Abib (Exodus 13:4; 23:15; 34:18; Deuteronomy 16:1) 🔹Ornan the Jebusite (1 Chronicles 21:15-30; 2 Chronicles 3:1) is also identified as Araunah the Jebusite (2 Samuel 24:16-25). 🔹The town of Bethlehem was also identified as the city of David (Luke 2:4). 🔹The name of the old part of the city of Jerusalem (on the south side of the Millo), was named Jebus, and was renamed the city of David when King David conquered the city of Jebus (2 Samuel 5:9), but it was also part of the greater city of Jerusalem. On a side note, evidence suggests that the original name of the city of Jebus was Salem (from which the name Jerusalem is derived). The city of Salem was unlawfully invaded and occupied by the Jebusites who are the descendents of Ham's son Canaan (Genesis 10:15-19). So, when King David conquered Jebus, he was recovering it for its rightful occupants which was designated by God. Due to being the highest elevation in the land of Israel at the time of the reign of King David, and the dominant source of water for the land of Israel, King David named the city of Jerusalem Sion/Zion in order to associate Mount Zion which is on Mount Hermon (Deuteronomy 4:48), with the city of Jerusalem in order to foreshadow that the city of Jerusalem will be the 'centre of government' for the whole earth! The word 'mountain' in the Bible text often depicts the government. The special group of 144,000 from the twelve (12) tribes Israel (Revelation 7:1-8), will stand with Christ on Mount Sion/Zion (Revelation 14:1-5), which is the name of the highest of the three (3) peaks on Mount Hermon, rather than Mount Moriah in Jerusalem!!! (Deuteronomy 4:48) Remember that there will be multiple comings of Christ in the time of the end: - 🔹The 'first '(1st) coming: The coming of Christ to seal the special group of 144,000 from the twelve (12) tribes of Israel (i.e. the 'firstfruits'), with the Holy Spirit (Revelation 7:1-8). After being 'sealed' (i.e. receiving God's Holy Spirit), the 144,000 will stand with Christ (depicted as the Lamb 🐑 in Revelation 14:1-5), on Mount Sion/Zion (see Note 1 below). Note 1: The Bible text does not explicitly state the exact location of the coming of Christ to seal the special group of 144,000 individuals from the twelve (12) tribes of Israel, except to state that once 'sealed' (i.e. filled with God's Holy Spirit), they will stand with Christ on Mount Zion (translated as 'Mount Sion' in some Bibles; see Note 2 below) (Revelation 14:1-5). They will stand with Christ on Mount Sion/Zion during the period of the sixth (6th) seal (Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-5), but PRIOR TO the coming of Christ on the cloud ☁️ which will also be during the period of the sixth (6th) seal (inferred in Revelation 7:9-17). The purpose of this coming of Christ is to seal with the Holy Spirit the special group of 144,000 from the twelve (12) tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:1-8), presumably PRIOR to the their rapture with the other New Testament saints (Revelation 14:14-16; inferred in Revelation 7:9-17). Note 2: The city of Jerusalem was also identified as 'Zion' (but very rarely as 'Mount Zion'), because the centre of the world government under the reign of Christ during the New Millennium and beyond, will be in the city of Jerusalem. INTERPRETATIONAND EXPLANATION God's sanctuary (dwelling), and God's presence (the Shekinah Glory), was also in the city of Jerusalem. So, because King David knew that the city of Jerusalem will become the centre of world government, he 'likened' the city of Jerusalem to the 'highest mountain' in the land of Israel, which was the highest of the three peaks on Mount Hermon, named Mount Sion/Zion (Deuteronomy 4:48). In the Bible text, the word 'mountain' is a depiction of government. So, depicting the city of Jerusalem as the 'highest peak' on Mount Hermon was foreshadowing that the city of Jerusalem will be the 'centre of government' of the earth (depicted in the Bible text as the highest 'mountain' in ancient Israel). If Mount Everest was located in the land of ancient Israel, King David would have no doubt identified the city of Jerusalem as Everest (or Mount Everest) rather than Zion or Mount Zion. Dual identifications of cities and places is not uncommon in the Bible text, for example: - 🔹Bethlehem was also identified as the 'city of David' (Luke 2:4; 2:11); 🔹 After King David conquered Jebus, he named the part of the city of Jerusalem which was located south of the Millo (see Note below), the 'city of David' (2 Samuel 5:9). Note: The Millo was (and still is) the 'fill' (made of stone and mortar), which filled the narrow and shallow ravine that runs across Mount Moriah in the east-west direction, and is located on the south side of the hillock of Ophel on Mount Moriah (2 Samuel 5:9). 2 Samuel 5:9 KJV So David dwelt in the fort, and called it the city of David. And David built round about from Millo and inward. Mount Sion/Zion is on Mount Hermon which is located in the northern parts of Israel near Lebanon 🇱🇧 (Deuteronomy 4:48). Deuteronomy 4:48 KJV From Aroer, which is by the bank of the river Arnon, even unto mount Sion, which is Hermon, The 'mountains of Zion' (i.e. the mountain range of Zion) on Mount Hermon, is the source of water from its 'dew' which is in complete contrast to the highly arid Mount Moriah which receives very little rainfall (Psalm 133:3). Psalm 133:3 KJV As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore. Over 90% of water in Israel originates from Mount Hermon. If not for the water flowing from the streams of Mount Hermon and feeding the River Jordan, the land of Israel would not be habitable for a significant population of people. The ancient city of Jerusalem was located on Mount Moriah, not on Mount Zion/Sion. However, because most Bible scholars are not aware that King David identified the city of Jerusalem by another name (the highest peak on Mount Hermon as explained above), various conflicting and confusing theories have been put forth in an endeavor to explain that the ancient city of Jerusalem was located on two mountains: Mount Moriah and Mount Zion!

[@Pre-Tribulation]

God seals the 144,000 in their foreheads. They are sealed on Earth. At some point these 144,000 sealed Jews get a harpazo, because they are redeemed to the throne in Heaven. See Revelation 14:1-4

[@datepalm1969]

@@Pre-Tribulation The passage of scripture in Revelation 14:1 - 15:4 provides a chronological timeline for certain events in the time of the end: - 🔹From the time the special group of 144,000 individuals from the twelve (12) tribes of Israel are sealed with the 'seal of the living God' (motif for God's Holy Spirit) (Rev 14:1-5); 🔹After the end of the New Millennium when God's people from 'all eras' (including the pre-Adamites) are in the 'new heaven and a new earth' (depicted as the 'sea of glass mingled with fire' in Revelation 15:2) (Rev 15:2-4). Mini timeline for the time of the end: - 1. Christ will come and seal the special group of 144,000 from the twelve (12) tribes of Israel with the 'seal of the living God' (motif for God's Holy Spirit), and will stand with them on Mount Sion/Zion which is the highest peak on Mount Hermon (Deut 4:48), rather than the city of Jerusalem which is on Mount Moriah. The naming of the city of Jerusalem as Zion or Mount by King David was prophetic because it associated the highest mountain in the land of Israel with the greatness of the city of Jerusalem as the centre of God's government on earth in the New Millennium and beyond (Rev 14:1-5). 2. God's angel will preach the everlasting gospel to the people of the world (Rev 14:6-7). 3. 'Mystery Babylon the great' (identified as the city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia 🇸🇦) will be destroyed by the 'beast from the sea' 🌊 (Rev 17:16-17), which is deciphered to be the revived Islamic Caliphate 🌙 (Rev 14:8). 4. God's angel will warn people to not worship the 'beast from the sea' 🌊 (the revived Islamic Caliphate 🌙) (Rev 14:9-11). [Admonition and encouragement to New Testament saints (Rev 14:12-13)] 5. Christ will come on the cloud ☁️ (Rev 14:14-15). 6. The 'elect' (the FAITHFUL "Spirit-filled" members of "Pentecostal-type" church assemblies) will be raptured (Rev 14:16). 7. The seven (7) trumpet 📯 judgements will be executed consecutively (Rev 14:17-20). 8. The saints of God (see Note 4 below) in the 'new heaven and a new earth' (depicted as the 'sea of glass mingled with fire' (Rev 15:2), as distinct from the New Millennium (Rev 15:2-4). _______ I perceive that you have not received God's Holy Spirit like the disciples in the Bible on the day of Pentecost. If you have not done so already, to find a local Pentecostal-type church that teaches that in order to qualify for the rapture of the elect, you must receive God's Holy Spirit like the disciples in the Bible on the day of Pentecost with the visible and audible manifestation or sign of speaking in 'other' (foreign, unknown to the person who is speaking) 'tongues' (languages) (Acts 1:4-8; 2:1-4; 2:17-18; 2:33). The local Pentecostal-type church will assist you to repent, be baptized by full immersion in water, and to receive God's Holy Spirit like the disciples in the Bible on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:37-40). Do not permit yourselves to be deceived into believing that speaking in 'other' (foreign, unknown to the person who is speaking) 'tongues' (languages) is not essential, because the passage of scriptures in 1 Corinthians 12:4-31 is stated in the context of a 'church meeting' which is identified by the phrase, 'when you come together' or equivalent, and is stated no fewer than seven (7) times in the passage of scripture that begins in 1 Corinthians 11:17 and ends in 14:40 (1 Cor 11:17; 11:18; 11:20; 11:33; 11:34; 14:23; and 14:26). This passage of scripture is a MANDATORY procedure for a formal church meeting (1 Corinthians 14:37). Remember, God saves by the Holy Spirit, and if any person does not have the Holy Spirit he or she does not belong to Christ (Romans 8:9-11). And that is why the risen Christ 'breathed on' (i.e. emphasised to) His disciples, saying, "Receive the Holy Spirit!" (John 20:22) Please feel free to ask questions and communicate.

[@Thessalonians-mt8yb]

The prophecy of Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24:21-22 is clear that the time of great tribulation will be shortened for the elect or believers. So the teaching of the pretribulation rapture is wrong. Although there is really a harpazo.

[@benny-yj7pq]

Dan 12:7 and 7:25 give us the time of the Great Tribulation, the same as iin Revelation, and also the time of the persecution of the Saints. The GT is already shortened to 3 1/2 years, no further shortening, Mat 24:21+22 should read " had been shortened" that happened already in the past and a;so in Rev 10:6, after 3 1/2 years all things will be fulfilled (Dan 12:7) after 3 1/2 years.

[@Kman.]

I don't see where that makes any sense. I reckon that you think the "ELECT" are the CHURCH? Please proceed to make the case, for I would argue that they're NOT. Cheers~~~:)

[@seanc2788]

The days will be shortened in the second half of the Tribulation because of the great heat of the 4th bowl. Meaning the sun is only going to shine 8 hours versus 12-15 normally. The world temperature will reach an average of 150 degrees F and so it won't be comfortable at all on the surface during the day.

[@sasadjordjevic996]

Daniel 9, 27 was Christ Covenant, with his people Israel First hal He fulfilled with his Ministry, 3, 5,We are in Age of Grace by Paul Gospel 1cor 15, 1 -4, Rapture was end of Age of Grace . Than Jesus will start Second half on his Covenant Tribulation of Jacob 3, 5 years

[@Pre-Tribulation]

The 1st 3.5 years are the 10 kings rising. By midpoint, the AntiChrist has world domination.

[@sasadjordjevic996]

@@Pre-Tribulation no satan First 3, 5 was CHRIST COVENANT MINISTRY

[@Pre-Tribulation]

@@sasadjordjevic996 Daniel 7:7-8 KJV After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. [8] I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. ^^^ so first the beast has iron teeth.. it basically stamps out any residue of what's left of countries. Then 10 kings rise and up comes a little horn. He gains world power by midpoint.

[@sasadjordjevic996]

@@Pre-Tribulation brother brother, mid point of what. Many imagine mid point of 7years nwo. Mid point of 70th week was Jesus die for our sins He was buried and rose on third day

[@Pre-Tribulation]

@@sasadjordjevic996 Daniel 9:27 isn't about Jesus. That's your issue

[@wjdyr6261]

When the 2 witnesses are called up, that's the 1st resurrection or rapture of the dead in Christ 1st, then we who are alive and remain. It's not about knowing the day or the hour but the event

[@Studio54MediaGroup]

That would be correct as in a mid-trib rapture.