Preamp Removal - Audio Technica AT LP120 USB Turntable

Is all the hoopla over removing the built-in preamp from the Audio Technica AT LP120 USB really worth it. Are people butchering their precious gear by performing this "Preampectomy"? We find out for SURE in this video.

[@cyprn6600]

Came for the mod, stayed for the song. This is 🔥

[@taybul]

Just did this myself and I used this video as a guide, must have watched it a dozen times. Extremely helpful! After a few days of struggling and almost losing hope I wanted to share some advice for others: First, I had to open this thing maybe 7-8 times because of a ground loop I couldn't find (more on that later). When removing the screws from the bottom, turn the unit upside down and shake out the spacers; I dumped them in the TT cover. When re-assembling, put the bottom first, put the spacer on the screw, then put the screw in the hole. No having to tape them from the inside. Second, the RCA replacement cable. I mentioned I had a ground loop I couldn't find, well the RCA cable played a huge part in this. My preamp was super sensitive and picked up everything (verified this because it would pick up interference without even being connected to the TT). The first RCA cable I used had a the signal and signal ground as 2 separate isolated wires for each channel. Don't know how to explain it, but avoid using these cables! The cable should be such that for each channel, the ground wire is actually sheathed over the signal wire. This provides some noise reduction for the channel since the signal wire is less exposed. Third, when soldering on the board in the TT, look out for possible shorts. They used a ton of solder per joint. Make sure you're not inadvertently shorting the adjacent joint. Fourth, tinning the wire on the cable. I noticed initially that my wires weren't sticking to the solder points well; the wire would just move the existing solder around. To get around this I "tinned" the ends of the cable. To do this, melt some solder on the ends of the cable, then solder on the board. This actually makes it easier to connect.

[@spacemanspiff559]

I suspected that flipping the thing over and adding the spacers would be an easier method. Thanks for confirming.

[@53pittmanjt]

I'm very late to this party but was fascinated by every minute of this, especially the detailed tour of the guts and your non-destructive technique. Best part was demonstrating WHY one would choose to do it (or not) with a before and after taste of the results. Lots of videos just assure you to do it and you'll like it. You proved what I suspected: yes, there's a difference, but my 60+ yr old heavily abused ears aren't going to hear it. BTW, love that song!

[@stevenclarke5606]

I’m in the same age group and I couldn’t hear any difference, so I won’t be making the modifications. Thanks for the video, saved myself a lot of time and stress.

[@vwestlife]

Excellent video, Craig. The coil and capacitor in the signal path is clearly an LC low-pass filter, designed to filter out high frequencies. Like you said, they probably put it in there to filter out high-frequency noise generated by the USB circuitry.

[@ninjabluewings]

The after opens up the soundstage very noticeably, the clarity and crispness is immensely apparent

[@RyanKentBarnhart]

That's a pretty great song Craig, I'm impressed.

[@moniqueduchossois1958]

pourquoi enlevait le preampli

[@SparkY0]

Man, all those unsheilded traces and thin unremarkable industrial wires on the audio path. And basically every record player and hifi receiver i've ever seen inside is like that. It should really make an audiophile rethink their life choices when spending thousands of dollars on wanky 3ft oxigenated hydroponic pure organic copper hookup wires.

[@Doggieman1111]

LOL good point

[@nixonari9742]

you all probably dont care at all but does anyone know a method to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow lost the login password. I appreciate any tips you can give me.

[@guillermojesse791]

@Nixon Ari Instablaster ;)

[@nixonari9742]

@Guillermo Jesse i really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and I'm trying it out now. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later with my results.

[@nixonari9742]

@Guillermo Jesse It worked and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy:D Thanks so much you really help me out :D

[@JasonBroaddus]

This is unreal, I used your how to brew beer video from ages ago and I recently got into vinyl and find you again!!! Ha :)

[@MrTennisgolf]

Negligible

[@b3at2]

You guys should go out on a date .. i guess this is you guyses song too huh lol

[@toneyisaiah408]

I've had Toneyanne Since January So far I have no problem with it.

[@toneyisaiah408]

She's still going strong.

[@RobLawson1982]

That's a couple of drinks you owe now ;-)

[@skybluealien]

Awesome video. There is a huge difference in sound. Removing the preamp uncovers a lot of highs and even some mids that were lost with it in place. Song was great too, it really showed the differences. Like Justin said, best video on you tube. you make it so easy, anyone can do this, and it is definately worth the effort. Great job!!

[@dubrazor]

The sound quality without the built-in preamp is just amazing. You've made a good choice 👍🏻

[@Shamanator]

Well-done, Craig. Thanks for using the scientific method, showing your hands-on technique, and honesty about the (small) difficulties involved.

[@nathanielnicholson559]

I was going to start my day with the dampening mechanism repair, but now I'm thinking of finally removing the preamp (same TT) as I've been considering it and your video takes out ALL the mystery. Thanks for you!

[@StrelokHD]

Hello, Craig! I apologize for my bad english. I must say that watching this video is for me one of the most amazing moments that happened to me on KZbin. The fact is that somewhere about a year ago, I found on the net your album, which I really liked, and partially "moved" to my player, including "After All." Time passed, I became interested in vinyl, and came across this video. The video seemed to me very useful and easy to understand. But I did not expect that in 20 minutes you will say - "for example we will take my own record", and that will play "After All". It was absolutely unexpected and it looks like magic. Thank you so much for the music and useful advice! Your fan from Russia, Michael.

[@Mooseman327]

I believe that AT has upgraded this model in the last two years (the AT LP 120 X USB) so that when you switch to the Phono output, it actually bypasses the internal pre-amp. I guess they heard that a significant number of people were doing this hack. So, I'm guessing that videos such as this goosed AT into fixing this. So, thanks!

[@peterd.4476]

Do you believe it or did they really solved this with the X model?

[@peterd.4476]

@@skipandslide No, they didn't, sadly. I did some research and it seems like that in the new X model you still can't bypass the preamp with the switch.

[@BrettDeriso]

I was skeptical about these "alleged" residual capacitors in the preamp bypass until I saw this vid. Mad props, bro. VERY informative -and yes, a DISCERNIBLE improvement in the output :)

[@VinylRescue]

Great to see you did the Preampectomy! I performed mine over 2 1/2 years ago and I heard the difference right away. When you switched it to BEFORE it sounded like hitting a noise reduction button on a DBX box. It muffles the sound and that's why I always leave comments on other YT channels to rip it out. I do want to pass on one helping point since I've taken mine apart several times (I used tape on the spacers also). Rather than use the Styrofoam for turning the turntable upside down, after removing the platter and 45 adapter leave the cover on and use clear packing tape to tape the cover to the top part of the turntable. Then just flip it over onto a towel to prevent scratching. I had originally soldered the RCA cable to the PCB board, but later soldered them directly to the wiring to the cartridge. I use the same AT440MLa cartridge that I upgraded from the AT120e that I ordered it with. It initially made an improvement, but removing the preamp made the biggest difference. I left the black wire grounded as originally wired to the PCB board. Your video is OUTSTANDING! Long live vinyl!

[@MrVinylObsessive]

Yes, there is definitely a difference in sound after removing the preamp. High frequencies are passing through freely now!

[@vinylcity1599]

MrVinylObsessive yes, that was VERY OBVIOUS sounding, even to a dummy like me!

[@cubdukat]

That and there seems to be a slight mid/high-mid suck-out with the preamp in place. it doesn't sound that bad with it in, but if I took it out, I'd have to take some of that high-end sizzle off my rips. Basically, I'm gonna have to see how it handles the kind of material I work with, which right now is classical records from the local library. I'm gonna pick one up after the beginning of the new year, and I figure the 30 days Best Buy or Micro Center allow for returns should be enough for me to know which way to go with it.

[@lestelie4410]

That was an excellent an very thorough description of the process. Thank you for doing this. Could I achieve a similar result by simply adding jumpers across the L-C filter circuit that you drew? Thank you from a fan in Sydney Australia and have a great 2018.

[@billyfowler9423]

I think the built in preamp is fine. If you want a turntable to use an external preamp, get one without one built in. Doing these surgeries lowers the value of the unit.

[@michgingras]

you are an idiot

[@thomasdavidson3942]

wow, the difference is more than I thought it would be even just listening on my laptop speakers. I'll be removing the pre amp from mine now. Thanks Craig.

[@clkshd]

I just did the preamp-otomy this morning, after 1year of owning the 120. I'm more than satisfied with the result and wanted to say thanks, it was your video that convinced me to do it.

[@davidharkins8880]

Hi Craig - I’m an electronics novice but you have no idea how much I enjoyed your analysis of the phono amp circuitry - respect from Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿- David h

[@mikko5005]

Thanks for the thorough instructions! I showed this to a friend who’s more confident with soldering and he came up with a variation: he added a simple switch between the main board and the preamp (”true bypass mod”). Very noticeable treble-improvement with my Goldring E3 cartridge, and as an added bonus, if I ever end up selling this turntable the new owner can just decide whether they’ll need the preamp for starting out their hobby (I did need it as a young student ten years ago). Not that I’m planning to get rid of this player now that it’s sounding so wonderful though.

[@jwolthers]

Top video Craig. You now have the best video on KZbin about this topic. I had the same experience as you. Takes that cartridge up to the next level unimpeded. I am sure the circuit is designed in such away to get around the lack of ground wire hence the capacitors and coils. From my experience In USB mode there was always a pilot tone sound in every instance, in line level mode the circuit produced a gating effect during low passages. Again, glad you took the plunge and as a result made THE best video on the topic. As you know I performed the same bypass surgery on my AT120 with similar results. 17!

[@VinylTV33]

Thank you very much!

[@dazza912]

Justin Wolthers love your videos, I'm in that moment where I need a new setup..watched the others videos and very helpful..as for pre-amp..it sounded much more powerful without..im thinking of getting the same deck or the project essential 3 ..great as always

[@gabrielhebertjr.5852]

Why couldn’t you connect tone arm wires to rca plug wires than to preamp . Ghebertjr @ Hotmail.com

[@velvet1undergrund643]

@@VinylTV33 hola que tal ,una consulta. Y que tal es el sonido del pre amplificador que trae el audio technica con tu pre amplificador NiKKO? Hay alguna variacion de sonido? porque en el video que muestras veo que utilizaste el sonido del audio technica en modo Fono con tu pre amplificador externo. Espero tu me puedas sacar de la duda. Saludos.

[@cubdukat]

Finally, a video where I could actually tell the difference! I might actually get this now as a second turntable. I was considering it before, but then I went for a heavily discounted Music Hall mmf-2.2 that went for a little over $100, but was completely new. Although I love the Music Hall, I'd really like to be able to swap cartridges without having to perform minor surgery, and I'd also like to be able to use carts that others seem to be able to use without searching for a compatible counterweight. And don't even get me started on the fishing plumb anti-skate weight...

[@justincole15]

I can’t decide if I’m more impressed by the video or that song! Great music man! I think I may take mine out now as well. I closed my eyes and could guess every time which parts of the song were with or without the pre-amp. Great job!

[@rwk1013]

the after removal sounds better on the high frequencies. I can hear the high hat or cymbal so I know that is being filtered. Thanks for the video. Very interesting idea

[@Shanoa]

wow it does sound better! Incredible video man!

[@colefreddy1]

The music sounds "cleaner" to my ears

[@gastoncerrini]

yes it is

[@edgardoluciocrocetta2437]

I love bass sound. I prefer with pre-amp.

[@sparkie5571]

Edgardo Lucio Crocetta as much as i like bass, after hearing the before and after, there’s no way i could listen to it like it was before. the high end just sounds muffled

[@johnsweda2999]

I would say the complete opposite sounds cleaner clearer with current circuit in place

[@ScottRemington]

Thanks for shooting this video, it was very informative and really appreciated you showing the actual signal paths in such detail. Now I know exactly what is going on inside mine! Your audio comparison at the end solidified my decision to mod mine. I was wondering if the filter cut the levels as well as frequency response, but your test showed it doesn't which is good to know. I think you made the correct decision to bypass the circuit completely. You could've pulled the chip caps and inductors, but the switch would have remained in-circuit, possibly leading to crosstalk or attenuation due to contact oxidation. Well done!

[@charlesbadendieck5304]

Thank you, this video saved me time and helped me to decide. I use a tube phono preamp and a tube amplifier driving Klipsch Cornwalls. The difference between before and after is incredible.

[@Si1983h]

No contest, more detail, greater high frequency extension, cleaner and more powerful bass, more space around the instruments after removal. Really profound difference. You have a great voice by the way, I’ll be seeking more of your music out.

[@headbanger1879]

I preferred it removed. Besides the extra highs it sounded like it had more depth or something. Less is more when it comes to your signal chain. Great vid!!!

[@pauldring2307]

Ive looked at a handful of videos on how to perform this mod but yours is by far the most informative by a long shot. Ive now modded mine and very please I did. Thanks :)

[@HermesMatamoros]

I bought this turntable just this week...I heard about the bypassing...your explanation rocks and in deed, you can hear the difference, at least with the external speakers in my iMac - greetings from Costa Rica and by the way, I loved your 45!

[@alexmorales1124]

Can you re-release your album? It’s really good and I would LOVE to have it in my record collection

[@Doggieman1111]

Just FYI all his other songs on the album are gangsta rap

[@carlosjavier3904]

Wonderful work. Congrats!!!

[@aypeezy]

“vinyl is final” I FUCKING LOVE IT DUDE!!! your explanations are unmatched compared to other channels!!!!

[@owenlaprath4135]

Oy, that is indeed a noticeable difference! Huge difference for those cymbals! They suddenly jump into action and were muffled before. Thanks for the modification demo and the video!

[@tjharwin]

There's a notable difference between the two. It's completely down to preference and personally I feel that it sounds a little too bright with the pre-amp removed, however, the reference track used in this video has a lot of bright sounds in the high-end and so I can't see how it would affect the records I would be playing which tend to focus more on the mid/mid to high frequencies.

[@JSL1986]

Hello, im remove the pre-amp today. The results are very very A M A Z I N G ! ! !. My equipment are a Sony Amplifier TA-F45, Technics SH-8044, Ortofon 2M Bronze, 100 Watt RMS Speakers. Thank you for the turorial.

[@NeedleDropRules]

I did the same thing on mine. When I purchased the AT-LP120, it was to be used as a second turntable alongside my vintage Yamah YP-B2 TT. If I didn't have anything to compare it to, I'd think it sounded fine. But the difference between the two was night and day. My Yamaha sounded bright and full of life, while the AT sounded muffled. Put it through surgery, and now they both sound fantastic. Totally worth the hassle! Great video. Yours was the best I've seen showing the before and after.

[@OptomodMix]

That was a great video Craig…even the kick drum sounds more present. Stereo separation was like A/Bing your Green and Purple carts..I guess high frequencies will do that. That Audio-Technica AT440MLa still handles that 45 really well...

[@Gregor7677]

If you'd like to have a Nikko amp to go with that preamp, I have one I can sell you. Original manual, service docs and upgraded output connectors. Alpha One, 220 watts a side. Good video! Appreciate that information.

[@teadm7258]

Sound is more balanced with the pre-amp in. The highs sound shrill without it.

[@r8bior]

Definitely has a raw quality about it. I think it's an improvement

[@SSJfraz]

It's the recording on the vinyl. It has far too much sibilance as Craig mentioned in another video. He purposely used this record to better highlight the difference. A properly mastered pressing won't have the same problem.

[@PaxHominibusBonaeVoluntatis]

My intention isn't to be rude but this modification is for kinda "deaf" people. If you're able easily to listen records without this modification then you can save some time for listening and keep guarantee. If you like to solder, then the sound isn't maybe so important and you can also remove digital stabilization parts to lower inside digital processing noises, which is not present on board in '80 equipment and it can play records as well. this is turning us to insane. To build a turntable it is needed to have expensive equipment and many engineers but to break this, it is enough to have "one man and his droid"/soldering iron ;)

[@Magnulus76]

@@PaxHominibusBonaeVoluntatis We have the same record player and never noticed a lack of highs. Records sound almost identical to flac files.

[@jefftetro9938]

Amazing just amazing. I just did this mod and I'm hearing a more detailed sound the highs are scary good with my ortofon 2m blue cart. and the dynamics are better plus bass is tighter as well. Thank you so much Vinyl TV!!

[@jimmiller6933]

I can even hear the improvement even with my 71 year old ears and through any compression that you tube causes. Great demonstration and to add I love that song and looked ti find it on you tube. Wonderful music I use a vintage high end Pioneer turntable with no electronics inside and use a Sure M97xE cartridge.

[@horseshoe_nc]

There is a difference. As others noted, w/o the preamp, it sounds a lot brighter. Great song also! But, I wonder. Can the induction coils and capacitors be removed, while keeping the best of both worlds? That way, if you happen to need the preamp, you don't have to buy an external one. Just flip the switch and use the built in one.

[@alexe1853]

I was wondering the same. I don't really see why you couldn't solder a wire to the front of the inductor and then jump it to the output. This would just bypass the LC-filter. But I may be missing something here. As long as the ground isn't necessary for the output signal w/o the pre-amp it should be fine?

[@leipzig175]

The "AT-LP120 Preamp Removal Guide" on "Vinylrestart" says how to do it that way under method 1, just Google the things in quotes

[@EdChi]

@@leipzig175 thanks, and here is the link: vinylrestart.com/at-lp120-preamp-removal-guide/

[@icarus212001]

I can definitely hear the difference, but I think I'm in the minority that prefers the Before. After the modification, it sounds a bit loud to me. Maybe loud isn't the right word, but the extra audio is a bit much for me.

[@pasomama]

Loud is definitelly not the word. You meant detailled. I would never prefer the previous version over the new one.

[@ThomasHart59]

icarus212001 I agree. The highs were too "busy" for me. Tinny.

[@clkshd]

You can turn the treble down if the highs are bothering you. It depends on your cartridge and preference after all. But with the preamp in, turning the treble up won't get you the lost highs.

[@ThomasHart59]

That's true, I suppose. Alternatively, I could just not do the surgery.

[@jordanfanning1407]

He means fatiguing. Yes, it was to me too, but as someone else has said... you could play around with the equalizer. I've been seriously considering this modification myself. However, I'm still mulling it over. I archive a lot of my vinyl using that built-in preamp. But it would be nice to have more dynamics while listening casually.

[@davidgiesfeldt6650]

Richer, brighter more defined and complete. Without the preamble work I would have assumed a compressed recording in the before. BTW, nice work on your recording. Stands up well. Kudos

[@ThomasOatman]

Wow. Thanks Craig ! I've watched several others on this topic and yours is a very nice addition. Good clarity in the video!!! I especially like the before/after recordings. Huge difference :-)

[@slacksmeridian]

Ah shit, I literally bought this a few hours ago and I'm already considering opening it up. I'm so ham fisted though!

[@DJPenguino51]

Listening with Sony MDR V6 headphones... there is a BIG difference. Top end sound much more airy w/o the preamp. AT needs to make a version of the LP120 w/o the preamp.

[@FurkanCemTurfanda]

I too am listening through an MDR-V6 right now, the difference is definitely there. It sounds more spacious and brighter without the preamp, but there were a few spots I actually would have preferred a not so bright sound. I don't know if it is worth risking my warranty to do this mod.

[@MinamiSen]

And sell at at more expensive price :-)

[@JosiahMcBeth]

Also MDR V6's. There is a good difference I say. The highs definitely shine after the surgery. Which I personally like. I'm thinking I shall do this to my own AT-LP120 this weekend after seeing this!

[@spotsill]

Thanks for finally talking me into being brave enough to finally commit to doing this. The song and performance was impressive and a great time capsule .

[@scotchrks]

I did this project with my turntable of this make and model two years ago. I did it on pure faith that it was the right thing to do because since I had no use of doing U.S.B. transfers, any signal going through extra circuitry would produce some sort of resistance in the overall signal. (At least that was my way of thinking). Thanks to your extra effort Craig, I can rest easy that I KNOW I did the right thing, because the result to my ears is the same. The recording without the u.s.b. circuitry, sounds clearer, and more ALIVE, and that's what it's all about when listening to artists. A listener has feel their words as well, and unfiltered clarity helps make it happen. (at least with me it does! ) THANKS AGAIN, CRAIG!

[@gns423]

Definitely can hear the difference. Great song! Is that you on vocals?

[@CraigTube]

Yes. Thanks!

[@demetriospappas1112]

This is good, but to me the sound difference is minimal. now taken into consideration the style of music your playing this might be worth doing. but again just my opinion,, it seems like a lot of work for me to do this for the quality change.. never the less A G R E A T V I D E O ! ! ! !! :) great information.

[@MrPortwinestain]

Demetrios Pappas I can't agree more!

[@ceeteeuk]

Just performed this mod as explained in the video. I left the preamp inside and coiled the wire in there. Took a risk with the soldering but managed to do it without issue :) All i can say is... if you have one of these decks, you MUST do this mod as the internal pre-amp phono out is garbage. I'm playing this direct through a rega phono mini and it sounds amazing now, the frequency range is much more expansive. Great video. well explained and gave me the confidence to try it myself.

[@garyotterson6100]

Sir, I am greatly impressed. Audio selection, your methods, and your explanation of all goings on. I'd love to hang out with you honestly.

[@automatedelectronics6062]

I really couldn't hear any difference. Maybe it's my THX sound system? Anyway, yes, I see the differences on your graphs, but I don't hear it. From an electronics standpoint, capacitors are not only used to tailor the sound, but also to absorb any electronic anomalies. If you use an external pre-amp, that is why they all have a different sound, because they are constructed and wired differently. This is also why cartridges and styli don't sound the same. The question is, is it worth the effort? Myself, one of my turntables is the AT-PL120, the predecessor of the one in this video. The pre-amp, which I have never used, is part of the main circuit board. Last year, the output of the TT developed a hum. I figured that a capacitor was leaking. I ended up making the tone arm wires the direct output, through cables with RCA connectors. This solved the hum problem. Taking a few of the 100's of recordings I'd previously made with the unmodified turntable and re-recording them with the new wiring, I nor anybody else could tell the difference in A/B playback. I relate this to perceiving something sounds better because of the effort extended making the change. It's kind of like buyer's remorse after spending a lot of money on something and then, because of that, thinking that it must be the best there is. Great video, and great music! Where can I get a copy of the record?

[@geraldyates6843]

I absolutely agree - I was listening intently, but if there was any difference, I could not notice it, so I would not make the change. It is a subjective thing, at the end of the day. I have this same turntable, by the way. I must say though, I quite liked Craig's song!

[@BrentWatkins-creative-services]

@@geraldyates6843 Ditto. I closed my eyes and promised I'd open them as soon as I heard a difference, expecting the "after," but after never came. I'm 60, so my ability to hear above 14K is negligible anyway and certainly not worth going to the trouble of doing the procedure.

[@sergepowa4210]

Well, I can hear the difference in higher frequencies, but it maybe because I have good sound system for my PC. Music sounds a bit more vibrant. I am not sure if I would hear that difference on my vintage stereo with 130 watts per channel.

[@automatedelectronics6062]

@@sergepowa4210 Again, I have never used the pre-amp and have always had the switch in the bypass position. Everybody knows that no 2 pre-amps sound alike, if you need to use them. Most receivers have had built-in pre-amps for decades and are integral with how the receivers are supposed to sound. Although the pre-amp circuitry can affect the output in the AT turntables, in bypass or pre-amp mode, unless there is something wrong with the pre-amp circuitry, as I experienced. With my AT-LP120-USB being part of my vintage quadraphonic system, using a Pioneer QX-949, with CD-4 discrete records having a 30khz carrier signal, which is way above human hearing, using the TT is the pre-amp bypass mode, CD-4 records play just fine, so the built-in pre-amp, bypassed, does NOT affect the higher frequency ranges. Atleast in the human hearing range. Using a TT's built-in pre-amp, makes an external pre-amp unnecessary, plus, when talking about computers, there are so many different soundcards available as well as speaker systems that using a computer for sound comparison isn't a good path to follow. Trying different soundcards and speaker systems or even using a computer for sound comparison is not a good way to judge a TT's internal circuitry.

[@sergisamongas]

@@automatedelectronics6062 I am not disagreeing with you at all, I have the same TT and very happy with audio quality connected to technics su-g90.

[@esorale]

I know this is an old video, but where did you get the replacement audio cable? I cannot find one. If you happen to have a link, that would be awesome!!!

[@SparkY0]

I think he cut one end off of a standard audio cable

[@ianhayes7684]

Did this job last night step by step with the video. My setup sounds MUCH better now. Thank you so very much!

[@joshdieckmann595]

I enjoyed watching your analysis - I'm in IT, and though IT has changed to the point where most people no longer do component-level repair, it's fascinating to look at how this stuff works, and see how you traced the audio leads. It's deceptively simple, and as both a vinyl enthusiast, and retro video game console collector, that knowledge will definitely come in handy. Also, good song! I'd not heard of you before, and I don't recall ever hearing that on the radio, but I rather enjoyed it. I'm more of a metal head, but I have a soft spot for 80's and early 90's pop-rock, because the local radio station played it constantly, and that's all I heard at the pool all summer. Thanks for the video, and I will definitely have to check out more of your stuff.

[@charlesufpa]

Friend, great video. Why did not you jump on the coil and opened the capacitors? Would not it work normal?

[@SparkY0]

It would probably work, but changing tiny SMD devices is a lot harder than bypassing the board entirely. I would only try that if you really wanted to keep the preamp but remove the filter. But if you remove it, you may find that the filter was there for a good reason.

[@chadergeist]

The AFTER sounds bright. I prefer the BEFORE...with the pre-amp.

[@wickedmessenger1]

I found the easy way of doing those washers was to leave them out, put the bottom cover back on and then put a round toothpick into the screw holes, one by one. Then drop the washer onto the toothpick, it slides down and gets perfectly centered on the hole. Remove the toothpick and it falls down the rest of the way. Then install the screws. Also, you could remove them that way -- with the bottom cover still in place -- if you could get something to wedge into them and pull them out. Unfortunately they are non-ferrous or you could use a magnet. Maybe a fatter toothpick. That way they don't scatter when you take the bottom cover off. I didn't know this when I bypassed the preamp in the one I did and I permanently lost one when I disassembled it. Keeping fingers crossed that it's not inside the turntable waiting to short something!

[@dipnarayanmukherjee3655]

Thanks Mr.Craig! Your detailed analysis inspire me to do the same for my AT LP 120 and it is sound great with Schiit Mani.

[@Aleziss]

Many thoughts here : 1) I wonder if that high pass filter is to better match the audio technica cartridge frequency response that come with the turn table or is for isolating some sort of hum/noise generated by the inside the circuitry... You can CLEARLY see in this link here goo.gl/4S5JhZ that the frequency response of the AT-95E has a high boost in the high frequency range and this high pass filter might be use to flatten the frequency response in the high end of the spectrum... I also see on some forums that user have change the values of the coils and caps to obtain a more realistic frequency output but this start to be complicated as we need to know the impedance of the cartridge and make some rather complicated calculations... 2) you seem to be ok with a soldering iron and you did not use a 150W weller gun so another test you could have try is leave the preamp board in there and remove both coils (and short the terminals) and lift both caps (as is as they are in paralell with the ground) and see if you would hear hum or hissing... This way you still can retain the preamp and USB function... 3) I was REALLY looking to see how this preamp was hooked up inside there (or looking for a schematic) BEFORE I would buy the LP120 and thanks to you, now I know. GREAT job and showing all the information. 4) The other improvement you could try is to use a better RCA cable and connector, you know something like these : www.ebay.com/bhp/turntable-cable 5) Finally, I raise my hat to you sir, this IS TRULY how I would remove the preamp for sure. The other "more popular video" on youtube where we see that guy cutting wires everywhere ruins the ability to put it back togheter. The way you did it is clean and beside cutting the black ground wire, you did not mess anything in there AND you can put it back together like an original. 6) Clean and well done job, bravo !

[@alecboyyes]

Isn't it fascinating how some people cannot hear the difference, while for others like myself, the difference is night and day even just through my cellphone speaker. I don't know whether I preferred the before or after, neither was 'bad', the sound had a nice balance with the pre-amp in, but a more forward sound with it out.

[@vinylcity1599]

alecboyyes yes, I definitely noticed a difference. and I'm not a golden ear, so you can imagine what the difference was actually being there! but I'm with you, both sound good, people that don't care for "brighter" sound will want to keep the pre-amp!

[@karurosu3dx]

alecboyyes I don't have a good ear but even through a cheap Bluetooth headphones I noticed the difference, specially the drum. I'm planning to buy a turntable (and related components) and it's pretty disappointing that I have to remove the preamp in order to have the best sound it can offer.

[@danieldaniels7571]

karurosu3dx you could just buy a turntable that doesn’t have this extra bullshit in it

[@stevesstuff1450]

Nice one! Just did the LP120-USB surgery today, having followed your very clear and precise directions... Total success, and the difference is very noticeable! That annoying 'noise gate' that the built-in pre-amp has is gone, and the overall sound is much cleaner, with better and more extended treble, and a more defined bass. :-) Many thanks for your excellent video! As a tutorial, it's the best on KZbin..! :-)

[@sjp8969]

WOW! That really made a HUGE difference, for me at least the sound is a lot richer and way more comes through. Amazing to hear this.

[@PJLuce8080]

What I don't understand is why buy the AT LP-120 and then go through the hassle of removing the preamp when there are other entry level turntables available at the same price point.

[@tallskinny01]

There are features that this has that the others don't.

[@lovelorn88nick]

Entry level??? Isnt this turntable $200-$300?? The Audio techinca LP60 is a entry level turntable. $100. *im new to vinyl* i have the LP60 and have been thinking of upgrading to this turntable

[@lovelorn88nick]

James Roy lol whats just hipsters?

[@lovelorn88nick]

James Roy better options for playing your records? As in? Or let me guess your trying to say that people getting into records are hipsters 'following the crowd' lol. I started collecting just back in November and im not a hipster. I dont care whats 'in' or trendy... you know its possibly to enjoy something without being a hipster right? I enjoy collecting physical media. Same goes for video games.... i stream music aswell but there's nothing like physical holding the music in your hands. Sure you do have 'hipsters', there the ones buying those Crossly portable junk record players. But its helping with record sells

[@DJBearOH]

As a DJ of 31+ years I have used the 1200s for MANY years and have always liked the way they look and how they perform. I had a pair of 1200s (used) from a nightclub I DJ'd at and have used them for about 10 more years after I got them. Not sure how long they were used in the club before I got them. Not ONCE did they break down and have always keep perfect speed. Here now, I no longer have the 1200s but I am getting one of the Audio Technica AT LP120 USB Turntable. I have records from my parents that date back to 1962 and I have other albums on vinyl as well that I would love to listen to again. Sure, I can get the music digitally some place but I like the part of putting the record on the turntable and setting the tonearm down and hearing those few "pops and clicks" that can trigger a memory of when my parents were still alive and listening to those records. I agrea, James Roy, that there are a LOT better options on the net to buy music and listen to them on our phones or home stereos but the main part of getting a turntable is mostly nostalgia and the beautiful memories of long ago. Cheers!!

[@digitalblasphemy1100]

I'm split on it really. Toward the end of the song, I felt that it sounded better without the preamp but at the beginning I felt that it was necessary. Some of the S sounds in the lyrics and snare drum sounded slightly over-driven or distorted slightly. I might have to do this myself although I wonder if I could just adjust my levels and get a similar result.

[@VinylTV33]

Don't forget that the record I used has a lot of treble. It won't even track properly on some cartridges.

[@bseapower]

Vinyl TV t

[@chrisanderson8298]

I just performed this preamectomy. I did things slightly different, but it sounds great! I simply unplugged the white/red wires at the preamp. Then unsoldered the red, white, and outermost black from the mainboard. I then resoldered my new RCA cable, combining the grounds to the outermost pinout on the mainboard. I left the innermost ground from the mainboard connected to the preamp. Further, I left the preamp and the existing RCA outs in place (I effectively have two sets of RCA's exiting the unit). So, the built in preamp is dead but easily reconnected. And, those little brass rings that surround the 8 screws? A little dab of hot glue will easily keep them in place during reassembly. Thanks for the great video!

[@rickhayes]

Just pulled the pre-amp out of my AT-120 and it's a HUGE difference!! Well worth the time!! Thanks for posting this vid Craig!! BTW.....you can put the little spacers back in AFTER you sit the the back on the body of the turntable. They will fall right down into the little holes. They are basically spacers to keep the heads of the screws from breaking out the plastic when you tighten them down.

[@Gigidag77]

Any way to fix the `(in most cases) too weak antiskate on these things as well? Anyway: great song !

[@WR3ND]

Turn up the dial?

[@Gigidag77]

Even at the highest setting it is far too weak. i heard someone shortened the spring to give it more tension but spend hours on it...

[@WR3ND]

I see. Thanks for the heads up.

[@WR3ND]

Yep, just tested my AT LP120-USB and even with the antiskate dialed all the way up to 7, it's too low, with the tracking weight set to 1.75. My records still seem to track and play well, but it's going to bother me a little that I can't fully dial the table in. I tested this on the face of a DVD, and the tone arm is very noticeably pulled in toward the middle.

[@leon9021]

Gigidag77 im not sure if its the anti skate thats too weak or the tonearm bearring thats not smooth enough.

[@Synthematix]

nice but why didnt you just bypass te suspect components? just bridge them and leave the preamp in

[@VinylTV33]

That might work, but then why are the components there in the first place? Maybe to filter out some noise from the near-by USB circuitry?

[@theredon2]

Vinyl TV hi this is a great video thanks. I been using the Cambridge audio 651p as a preamp and this TT (still have the preamp install) I used on phono mode and the sound is louder but I don't know if is make the sound better any thoughts. Thanks.

[@Synthematix]

Or just install a bypass switch

[@BetamaxFlippy]

Vinyl TV someone suggested it's to make up for the lack of a grounding wire when the internal preamp is switched off. Also if I were to install another switch I would separate the ground wires from each other as they should be thru the RCA cable. I'm thinking of getting this turntable but I am skeptic of doing this operation for the same reason you wouldn't have done it before because it would have voided the warranty, but I really care about the quality of the sound. Idk what to do.

[@everardohernandez8036]

Vinyl TV if you just add bypass wires you would still have the capacitors in the circuit shunting some off the highs.

[@kevinbeckenham3872]

Thank's for a great tutorial.I have this turntable, and i have been happy with it for 5 year's, since new. The was certainly an improvement over 4 KHz.

[@FDRich7]

Big thank you for this great, detailed video. I managed to do this modification so easily after watching this, and am enjoying the sound of my turntable much more now. Cheers.

[@joet_swbo101]

I like the before better. Those highs in the after is like an ice pick in my ears.

[@dwindeyer]

I agree.. I think the additional wiring has added capacitance and caused a HF peak which combined with the 10khz rolloff of this particular disc has a very unflattering sound. The source material could have been better selected.

[@SecondLifeDesigner]

Just wait till you get older. Then you will need those highs to be a bit louder so you can hear them.

[@danmah84]

You bumped the level up on the mixer, it's in the video at 19:50 and 19:57, that will of course change the sound, louder can often sound better in many situations, so I disagree with some of the methodology here... like, JUST before saying 'I have not touched these' as well lol. Also, it's not a true A/B, in that you shouldn't have just used a recording that no one is familiar with, there are plenty of public domain recordings that are exempt from copyright and also familiar to the majority of people in the world. Besides that, it would have been much more conclusive to have used actual test tones/sine wave tones and swept up in increments from 20Hz to 20KHz, using not only your ears but your eyes, via an Oscilloscope or DS CRO. Only then would you have proven any loss, or gain of spectral content in the frequency realm, however academic it may seem. I mean, this video does provide a service in that you showed a very easy way of modifying the turntable to remove the ADC/Preamp... but to say that it remarkably improved aural content is disingenuous. Especially using a USB mixer, if you're going to prove an analog device, you should not be recording to a digital format via a wildcard like a USB mixer. We have no idea if that's introducing any sort of noise into the recordings itself. I get that your options for digital interfacing may be limited, but a USB Buss? Come on man ;)

[@leon9021]

Daniel All that matters is that you could see a difference and hear it as well. To me its quite the difference. Depends on how critical of a listener you are. And yeah he did touch the controls but a lot of old stuff will have loose buttons and controls on them, so I doubt he actually changed anything there.

[@tomshelley464]

If he did move either one of the levels it was minimal. I agree he may have bumped the knobs but I don't think either one moved enough to make such a distinct difference in the sound. I am now looking forward to my warranty running out so I can do this to mine. I knew something was mudding it up.

[@davethestalker]

Well done Craig! After being "fixed", it sounds fuller, even on an iPhone 6+. Nice singing sir!!!

[@n8great321]

Very thorough video! Sometimes peace of mind is a worthwhile "upgrade", especially when it's free. A subtle change but probably worth doing if you have the tools and know-how.

[@martystamplecoskie4804]

to me it sounds the same

[@freddyiglesias6110]

huge difference. with a good pair of headphones on you will clearly hear the higher frequencies with the preamp removed. of course with some speakers or computer speakers the difference may not be noticeable

[@pasomama]

No need for headphones, your ears will thank you in time, just use a good pair of speakers. The difference is obvious.

[@martystamplecoskie4804]

oh ok thanks i did not know that

[@DarkLinkAD]

Im using my Plasma TV, built in speakers, and the difference obvious

[@junglejamesie]

www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/255295305

[@davidapplegate4259]

Great video!! Even my 72 year old ears were disappointed each time you switched back to BEFORE. Using older iPad Pro, Bluetoothed to new RAYCOM Everyday Earbuds, set to “Balanced Sound”. Impressed how much I still like the sound of vinyl, (and your recording). I owned an AudioTechnica like yours, without the vertical adjustment, I think it was $139, with the Shure cartridge, from Heads Together in Squirrel Hill, Pittsburgh, circa 1972, same day I bought the newly-released LedZep 4 ZOSO!. Thanks, Craig!

[@oliverklein2041]

Hi Craig, I've just seen your video. Your hint about the capacitors and coils at the output of the signal was really helpful for me. I didn't remove the preamp. I soldered a thin cable bridge from before the coil to after the capacitors for each channel. This short circuit around the output filter has the same effect but the USB remains active and can still be used.

[@KevinJStoll]

Hey man. I heard a big difference. The audio with out the pre-amp is brighter in sound. Definitely having more high tone. Where the pre-amp sound lost it and was more midrange sounding. Thanks for the video. Just might do this to mine after the warranty goes out. Buy the way. I've watch 7 of your video's in a row. I like what ya have to say. What you said in your video, "Why Vinyl" I totally agree with ya. Listening to music like we did when we were kids was an event. Something to savor as we listened to the albums. Kids today just don't get it. I to have just gotten back into vinyl. Started out buying a new turntable and a high end cartage and stylus. Up graded to a better feet for it. An album weight. Better wires and connectors all across my system. I'll say this. Half the fun of listening to vinyl is the work going into setting it up to listen. Thank for all you do out here for us old farts.....LOL I'm 61. Bought my first album when I was 11 or 12. Yes Fragile. Classic..... PS, I'm a big RUSH fan a well. Peace and love, Kevin

[@hairylittlewombat]

Great video, Craig...thanks. I removed my preamp today and I'm so glad I did. The difference in sound quality really is amazing. Like you mentioned in the video, it sounds like a serious cartridge upgrade. I left the preamp inside the housing and just neatly bundled up the wires and cables. That way I don't have to store the board and it's ready to re-connect if I ever decide to use it again. Although I don't know why I ever would now. Thanks again for the instruction and motivation.

[@paperandpavement]

I'm waiting for my turntable to be delivered and came across this topic. Thanks for this video and excellent song!

[@jjadams9533]

Thanks Craig, just did the surgery and so so so much better, great video. Please keep posting videos. Please.

[@alanmaier]

Thank you! You understand what you are doing and you've proven that bypassing the preamp does improve treble performance - improved transient response. I have to wonder if removing the LC network on the preamp / USB board might have done much the same - possibly a third test which would also determine how much digital noise is coming through.

[@MrMooseMusic]

It is definitely brighter (more high-freq energy post-op) :). Thanks, Craig! Great video, I'm going to mod mine too.

[@Daglas5]

It sounds a lot better after the removal of the preamplifier. The change brought dramatic improvement of sound. Great blog. Regards.

[@jddewitt1981]

Great video. Very informative! I’m not sure that I would care enough to do it but it’s definitely noticeable. I also like how you took the time to do it right. Great track for your testing too.

[@malibustigs]

Thanks for this!! The difference in sound is really amazing. I will be ripping that thing out ASAP!!

[@DavidRBermudez]

I just bought mine 3 days ago and found this video...I live in Puerto Rico and there are not many electronics stores around anymore so I might have to do this myself (I'm not an electrician...but a software developer)...can't wait to do it.

[@Webpoodle]

I really appreciate this vid. I was tossing up whether to rip the pre out of mine and have now done so. Those having trouble identifying the difference, focus on the snare; that's what swung me. Again, thanks.

[@pasomama]

Not only on snares. I think the final result will greatlly depend on your loudspeakers performance.

[@peterharman8466]

Hey Craig this is very informative thank you, I need to do the same to mine the hum is dreadful after playing Janis Ian earlier all I wanted to do was chuck it out the window and buy something else so I guess tomorrow I will get my tools out. Thanks again for taking the time to make this his video and I preferred your record after the removal. Regards Peter from the UK

[@synthetica8472]

That's a great comparison! Definitely better highs and "sizzle" after removing the preamp completely. I'll need to do this mod once I settle on a preamp- my new receiver does not have a phono input, so I switched to the "line" mode and found this video when I was wondering if the onboard preamp is any good.

[@robertmattison1282]

WOW I really like the work you put into the product of this video. Your the best. Thank for Posting to KZbin. Actually the removal of the per-amp wasn't why I watch your video, it was your skill in explaining what was going on how you were going to complete this project. I hope to see more of type of videos produce by you.

[@bryonstaats8724]

I did this mod and added an ART DJPRE II and I can hear a difference mostly in the high end. It seems crisper and doesn't have that high end digital distortion I was hearing before. For reference, I was running with the ATLP120s pre through a Bose 321 and rehearsal studio PA with powered Mackie speakers. I know this isn't an audiophile setup, but I thought I would share my experience. The mod was very easy by the way.

[@rimmerblues1586]

The difference going from 'after' to 'before' reminds me of when i switched on Dolby B noise reduction on my cassette deck when listening to a pre-recorded tape back in the 90s.

[@TheDirtyBirchTrails]

Thinking of buying this turntable. For the money and with the mod you performed I really like the sound. Even if its only utube. But thank you very much. You have the best presentation so far for the test, mod and before/after sound quality result. I will definately be buying the LP120 !! Subbed !!