Precursor of the longsword

[@swordandshield]

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[@Thrand11]

Excellent interpretation of use of the 13th century pommel design shield brother!

[@swordandshield]

+ThegnThrand , thank you, my friend.

[@Wilkinsbrian]

Interestingly enough, northern wu style taijiquan uses a very similar grip (looser but basically the same angle) with the jian (chinese straight sword). The jian is also typically a 1 hander, but Wu uses two for better control in moments of contact, added power, etc. Neat to see two different cultures possibly apply similar approaches.

[@swordandshield]

+Brian Wilkins Very cool - and good additional evidence for my thesis, too. Thank you.

[@gn019202492000]

I really like Roland's video; not only that they are all informative and practical, every single word he says is clear and easy to understand. For those (like me) English is not their first language, it is extremely....helpful? (or important I would say).

[@swordandshield]

+gn019202492000 Thank you very much. This comment of yours makes me proud and happy.

[@gn019202492000]

+Roland Warzecha I...I never thought that I would have received an actual reply; the honor is mine, Sir. Please, Please keep making all these great videos!

[@swordandshield]

gn019202492000 I will do my best. And comments like yours are really encouraging.

[@peterjohnsson557]

Great presentation, and an interesting take on this pommel design. -Thank you Roland. As with almost all things related to the sword we see a combination of material, manufacture, function and aesthetics.

[@swordandshield]

+Peter Johnsson , I could not agree more. Thank you for your research and having designed "The Ritter" in the first place! Many of my insights from a practitioner's point of view rely on the availability of accurately proportioned swords, in particular regarding handle dimensions, which is one of the most neglected aspects in modern sword production. Yours and Albion's work have been a great help for me in this respect.

[@peterjohnsson557]

+Roland Warzecha -I could not be happier hearing this Roland. Keep up your great work! I am always looking forward to seeing what you bring next.

[@swordandshield]

+Peter Johnsson , likewise - and I will do my best.

[@AdlerMow]

Not only its design allow two handed use, as it is pointy, so to make pommel strikes more effective concentrating the force of the blow.

[@swordandshield]

That's true.

[@eyangamedud3293]

I find that this grip style also works for brazil nut pommel arming swords as well, though some differences would be felt it gives a good powerful strike and controlled thrust.

[@fracturedbynature5408]

I am always glad to see a video from you come up on my feed. Keep them coming Roland. I'll be here waiting....

[@swordandshield]

+Fractured by Nature I am happy to read this.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

You could get better leverage and control still if your fingered the guard with the front hand while pistol gripping with the other. Of course than risks losing a finger.

[@swordandshield]

+Philip Dyer Yes, I full agree with you. It does change the blade's pivot points, but fingering the cross is shown in historical sources repeatedly. Compare to here, for example: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.549282801871918.1073741917.266934476773420/467157153417817/?type=3&theater Regarding the risk for your index when fingering the cross: I can only say that you risk your life in a fight anyway, and there is no grip nor technique that is appropriate for all situations. Take disarms that involve grapping a blade: Easy to do if you seize the blade as it has come to a standstill - foolish to try to do so with a moving sword.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

^Excellent Reply and thanks for the link.:) I had no clue guard fingering went that far back.

[@swordandshield]

Philip Dyer You are welcome.

[@elgostine]

i wondered if maybe the design wasnt somehow a throwback to earlier brazilnut pommels and lobed pommels of the viking age

[@swordandshield]

+elgostine , well, it is quite reasonable to assume that shapes that resemble each other were developed to serve the same purpose. After all, occasional two-handed sword use is confirmed by period iconography as early as the 10th century. Take a look here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.549286731871525.1073741918.266934476773420/721765704623626/?type=3&theater

[@gerbilsmith]

not saying they were used like this but many Viking age swords I find have a similar feel to the pommel. not quite as well fitting to the hand but still the Saga's mention two handed sword blows and when gripped with the left hand on the pommel I find many replicas tend to wind up withe the edge at a nice angle to the target, similar to the angle of a guillotine

[@swordandshield]

+ED-D Smith I fully agree with you and find occasional two-handed use of swords in the early Middle Ages quite possible.Compare to this post here: facebook.com/266934476773420/photos/a.549286731871525.1073741918.266934476773420/721765704623626/?type=3&theater

[@lisajenkins7021]

Thank you for the video Roland! Very professional.

[@swordandshield]

+Lisa Jenkins You are most welcome, my dear Lisa.

[@kyleman605]

That machiavelli with the blued fittings is beautiful... i have one with satin fittings and black grip but seeing how amazing it looks on that rack I kind of want to get another haha

[@brittoncooke1890]

Careful there Roland, using a sword with two hands can lead to the realization that the Longsword is the queen of all swords and cause you to abandon your excellent work with the sword and buckler ;) At first glance, looking at the pommel doesn't suggest it would be appropriate for two handed grips. To me at least. It is interesting that you found the opposite to be true. Very intriguing.

[@swordandshield]

+Britton Cooke , hahaha! No fear - I am unlikely to ever consider a weapon the queen of swords that only was a short episode at the very end of the age of the sword. Clearly, the single-handed sword, that was the choice of fighting men for millenia, much rather deserves that title - but I guess deep in your heart you know that anyway! Yes, gripping a cocked hat pommel this way certainly was a eureka moment, not only for me but all the others who tried at out at WMAW. However, I would not go as far as saying that any later longsword maneuver is easily doable with this kind of pommel. Such swords were probably rather used like great swords, although we see two-handed sword use by unarmoured swordsmen as early as c.1200+.

[@brittoncooke1890]

+Roland Warzecha "... but I guess deep in your heart you know that anyway!..." shhh... maybe... hehe.

[@swordandshield]

***** aah - the good ole days!

[@Wraithninja1]

@WBBH The longsword is very cool, but weren't sword and buckler or similar weapon combinations (scottish targe) used for a much longer span of time than the in Europe? Thus, I think sword and buckler would also remain very popular in your scenario.

[@patrickkelly5590]

Very interesting theory on sword development. Thank you.

[@swordandshield]

You are welcome.

[@JTWilliams74]

Where did you get those gloves? They look fantastic!

[@swordandshield]

+Jake Williams Von Starcher , thank you. I made them myself.

[@JTWilliams74]

+Roland Warzecha Do you happen to know what kind of leather they are made of? I love the look of them and they don't seem too restrictive. And I wanted to mention that I've slightly adapted this grip you've proposed to one of my longswords which has a very large wheel pommel and a very short grip compared to other longswords and I found that having the bottom hand in a pistol grip like you mention gives me much more control and flexibility. And I've also discovered unintentionally that - for me at least - cuts such as a schielhau feel far easier with this pistol grip - with a short-gripped sword that is. And point control is excellent, it's very secure.

[@swordandshield]

Jake Williams Von Starcher My gloves are made of vegetable tanned calf leather. As for gripping a sword: Yes, I know this kind of Eureka moments very well. Fine motor skills are unfortunately fairly neglected in the HEMA community, at least when it comes to medieval swordsmanship. We are only just discovering a new planet there, that makes all the difference. Happy to read that you embarked on that quest, too! It is a rewarding one.

[@JTWilliams74]

+Roland Warzecha Thank you! And your videos have been very inspiring and insightful to me. I've noticed the trend of HEMA becoming more of a sport than a martial art and while it is cool to see HEMA growing and expanding - I myself am rather new - I can very much see what you mean when you talk about people's obsession with "full speed" sparring in full gear. To me, your method of more controlled freeplay seems very grounded in reality, the plays that I see you and your students perform fascinate me because I don't see them very often elsewhere. And your use of fencing with sharp swords seems so logical when you think of blade binds but also of the mentality of a medieval fighter. It seems the best way to overcome the fear of a sharp sword and to really test a fighter's control of his/her weapon. Sorry for the long ramble, but I'm a huge fan of your work, it's given me a whole new perspective on HEMA and what it means. My only regret is that I don't live close enough to attend your classes!

[@swordandshield]

Jake Williams Von Starcher thank you so much for this comment of yours. It really makes me happy to see that my passionate work is being appreciated and makes sense to others. Hoping to meet you at some point. All the best, Roland

[@SuperDraupnir]

Is this a famous event in the USA? Ive never heard of it. Is it bigger than Longpoint?

[@lancerd4934]

Very interesting theory. Now how will you explain type V pommels? In a time of mainly simple, geometric pommel designs they seem so out of place.

[@swordandshield]

+lancer D What do you mean V pommels? Like Oakeshott's type V ones? The fishtail pommels? These are actually one of the best examples for the concept of form following function, in my opinion.

[@lancerd4934]

Roland Warzecha Wow thanks for replying Roland :) Yes the fishtail style is what I meant. Could you elaborate on why that is please? I'm curious what advantage they would hold over a simpler scent stopper style. I do think they are beautiful, but I'm not sure i see the practicality of them.

[@swordandshield]

lancer D In contrast to a symmetrical scent stopper pommel, the fishtail shape tells you the sword's angulation: You can feel with your left hand where the crossguard terminals and the edges are.

[@lancerd4934]

Roland Warzecha Ah, cool. Thanks :)

[@swordandshield]

lancer D You are welcome.

[@JanPospisilArt]

Wouldn't a similar amount of control be achieved by gripping at the base of the pommel? I would even expect such cutouts of the circular shape at the base - meaning 180 degrees opposite. You'd have the same amount of space for the second hand + less chance of slippage.

[@swordandshield]

+JanPospisil42 Well, there is little risk of the sword slipping out of your hand when wielding it with one hand, is there?So I do not find this an issue in the first place. But the grip that I suggest offers two major advantages: A) It leaves the left in an ergonomicly optimal position and B) it extends handle length, thereby providing a longer lever.

[@JanPospisilArt]

+Roland Warzecha I ddin't meant throwing/losing the sword completely, rather losing grip of the bottom hand in an inopportune moment. I also didn't see quite clearly the way you were holding it, I thought you gripped only the bottom middle part. Would there be stances or sword moves where it would be more comfortable and efficient to hold the half closer to your body in your palm, and grip your fingers in the cut out parts? (tilting your hand down as opposed to up like you do now) Maybe for a thrust? Have you done any test cutting like this?

[@swordandshield]

+JanPospisil42 I am not quite sure if I fully understand the grip you suggest. But I think it is cool that I already have you pondering on pommel function. There may well be aspects that we are unaware of as of now. At any rate, discussing possible grips and their assets should be done sword in hand to bring up best results. The weapon instantly talks to you and there is an instant understanding that only sensing can provide. I did not have the opportunity to do cutting practice with it, but if the swords cuts well with one hand on the handle, it will likely cut even better with both. there is no doubt that two hands on a handle lend more control an better acceleration. Plus, I use swords all the time and this grip felt very good to me as a swordsman.

[@JanPospisilArt]

+Roland Warzecha n.2 is what I meant: i.imgur.com/smg87ws.jpg

[@swordandshield]

+JanPospisil42 thank you, this is very helpful. #1 is what I show in the video. #2 is interesting, but I guess it would result in an inconvenient bent of the wrist when extending the blade forward.

[@algomez8563]

the background sounds are similar to a RPG ambient noise

[@pradanap.m.3195]

Hmm. A pistol grip at exactly the right position to "post" the sword (in modern fencing terms). That'd be an epee judge's nightmare.

[@swordandshield]

+Pradana P. M. Hahaha!

[@sparrowhawk81]

This is a really cool insight, but the devil's advocate in my wants to ask: If people found themselves wanting to use a sword with two hands, and they were willing to redesign them to accommodate that, why not just start asking their smiths to make their swords with a longer grip? Are there technological limitations from the period that would keep them from simply lengthening the tang? I suppose even posing the question has just now made me realize there could be a few factors here: (1) If they wanted the option of continuing to use their sword as a single handed weapon with the same shield and thus wearing it in the same way, maybe some people felt that trying to wear or wield something with an actual longer grip on it would be cumbersome or otherwise inconvenient. (2) Perhaps they saw changing the pommel shape as a simpler more streamlined solution, one that they could actually get as a modification to their existing blades (though I suspect you would lose a bit of the grip length getting it re-peened).

[@swordandshield]

+Sparrowhawk I think (1) is the best answer. Context is everything, and in general, sword-fighting at the time was combat with sword and shield. As seen in the sources, a few of which are in the video.

[@sparrowhawk81]

+Decay I don't understand where you're coming from with this.

[@youngtuck3605]

At 2:55 do I hear some Phillip de Vitry?

[@swordandshield]

You sure are a connaisseur! I am impressed.

[@youngtuck3605]

+Roland Warzecha Ars nova for the win

[@swordandshield]

Charlie Broder I have looked it up and it is The Early Music Consort London.

[@youngtuck3605]

+Roland Warzecha thanks! Just downloaded their Philip de Vitry album off of iTunes. Beautiful stuff. Exactly how one would think the Middle Ages sounded like.

[@tamerofhorses2200]

It's so nice to see other people enjoying authentic music from ancient eras. The original works tend to be overlooked by the popular media and consequently, by most of the people.

[@sparrowhawk81]

I think I need to go to this so I can meet you.

[@swordandshield]

+Sparrowhawk Would be a pleasure. But it is only every two years, so next chance is september 2017.

[@Wraithninja1]

Would it, under any circumstances, be possible or advantageous to use this two handed grip with a buckler?

[@swordandshield]

Possible. But disc and wheel pommels are more convenient for some sword actions in buckler combat as seen in I.33.

[@Wraithninja1]

Interesting. What about fishtail pommels, like on Albion's Burgundian*, are they any impediment or advantage to I.33 techniques? I personally feel that you are a unique asset to the HEMA community with your specialization in I.33. Thank you for being so responsive and open with your information. *www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-burgundian-xviii.htm

[@swordandshield]

Thank you for your kind words, I am delighted to read this. I have not used that particular pommel style, so I cannot comment. But in general, I go by the rule that no weapon design is arbitrary. So if disc and wheel pommels were favoured in a particular context, then this is because they work best there. However, such contexts may vary wildly even within one period and region. So when I say wheel pommels work best for unarmoured sword & buckler as seen in I.33, that does not mean it was impossible with other styles. I can do I.33 style s&b with a langes messer, too, it is just not optimal for some moves. Also consider that unarmoured duelling is an extremely specific context and a swordsman might have had a different focus or even various ones which all affected his choice of weapon.

[@ulflidsman3064]

Roland, where can I get a pair of gloves like yours?

[@swordandshield]

+Ulf Lidsman, I have made them myself. I provide images and useful links regarding tailoring historical gloves in this album: facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.445842678882598.1073741902.266934476773420&type=3

[@ulflidsman3064]

Thank you Roland. I'll check them

[@AngloSaxon1]

Really nice video, very well done :)

[@swordandshield]

+The Original English Martial Arts Channel, thank you.

[@eEdselEdsel]

Was this recorded at the DeKoven center?

[@swordandshield]

+E. Edsel Edsel Indeed it was.

[@benjohsmi1]

Interesting theory.

[@GhostOfHarrenhal]

Wouldn't that grip be too delicate wearing mail mittens? And how is it better than a wheel pommel?

[@swordandshield]

+GhostOfHarrenhal Well I am using it with leather gloves here and I do not see how any mail on the back of my gloves would inhibit fine motor skills. Plus, all efficient sword grips are delicate, in my humble opinion, but I have no problem applying them if the equipment that I use is historically accurately produced. Like my Wisby gauntlets do not interfere with my fine motor skills, either. But, of course, I would very much like to see others try out my proposed grip in period gear. The cocked hat pommel is not better than a wheel pommel. A wheel pommel allows for certain actions and techniques that I use in my regular practice, that would be rather difficult with the shape presented here. However, a single sword's wheel pommel does not allow for the same handle extension and control when using it with two hands. Would be really easy to demonstrate sword in hand. There are pros and cons with either design. It depends on the intended use which design would be better suited.

[@swordandshield]

+ThuleanPerspective This is because at this point in history, combat has shifted from being focused on shield binds to being focused on blade binds, due to the change in shield shape: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKPdgHuEZ9ete5o

[@swordandshield]

ThuleanPerspective Bitteschön.

[@swordandshield]

ThuleanPerspective Not for single combat, where the flat center-gripped round shield is superior. But for fighting in formation and on horseback, domed and curved shields are better suited. This mirrors, in a sense, a different fighting ethos, as well as different organisation of society and military.

[@swordandshield]

+ThuleanPerspective Classical Greek shields differ from medieval domed shields both in design as well as in use: They were less distinctly domed, but much larger, with one edge resting on the shoulder in single combat, the edge extended forward, unlike medieval domed or even curved shields, which do not allow for such an action. So in this regard, Greek shields are closer to Germanic/Viking round shields: The sword arm is not being exposed in this context.

[@h1zchan]

I was going to buy a blunt longsword for solo practices and maybe some sparing but now having seen your video I'm tempted to buy one of these swords instead, just to experiment with the techniques. Unfortunately I cannot afford an Albion. That's way to costly for an experiment. Do you think this one would serve the purpose just as well? (Looks a bit too cheap but I haven't been able to find that particular pommel shape elsewhere, apart from albion of course) www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH6954F&name=Medieval+Sword+-+-+Stage+Combat+Version

[@swordandshield]

+Henrick Likesrabbits I cannot comment on the handling qualities of this practice sword, as I am not familiar with it, but the pommel should work fine for your purposes. Hope that helps.

[@h1zchan]

***** Yeah I'm glad i didn't go ahead with the purchase. Sadly we don't get many choices here in Australia. The transportation cost combined with the exchange rate makes any decent sword manufacturers out of reach for those of us who don't earn big bucks

[@andrewplck]

Mhmmm... Albion... :)

[@jacklederer6106]

+RubberKidney - seconded

[@junichiroyamashita]

So is this one kind of ante litteram bastard sword ?

[@swordandshield]

Define "bastard sword", please.

[@junichiroyamashita]

Roland Warzecha a sword with an arming sword blade and handle lenght but with a pommel long enough to be feasible with a two handed use i was asking this mostly beacause the two handed grip here is kind of peculiar

[@axlefoxe]

Roland has the uncanny ability to hold swords in the most ridiculous ways and prove everyone else wrong 😆 way to use biomechanics and and open mind to find things everyone else misses😅.

[@sirVhailor]

This is really far-fetched. And the guy's steps are way too slow.

[@swordandshield]

+sirVhailor Why would it be far-fetched that form follows function? And my step is slow because it is demonstration at a reduced pace. But I guess you are rather disapproving of the foot moving well after the sword. Well, let me share with you the secret why so far I have won every single fight against any opponent who insisted on hastily stepping into the danger zone: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmGvoaakhJV4arc

[@SuperDraupnir]

+sirVhailor Roland only does slow fencing.

[@swordandshield]

spndrp That's right. … and Neo does, too.

[@swordandshield]

+spndrp I do not know why, but YT denies me to directly reply to your query regarding WMAW in your other comment (privacy settings?). So I hijack this thread: The Western Martial Arts Workshop is focused on teaching rather than competition and it has a much longer tradition than Longpoint. Here is the impressive schedule of the past event: wmaw.us/2015/Schedule.asp This is the international line up of instructors: wmaw.us/2015/Instructors.asp