Predator 212cc Governor Removal Dyno Results ~ The Road To Horsepower Ep2

On todays episode of The Road To Horsepower we find out if removing the governor makes more power!!! We install a billet flywheel, throttle top plate, and 18lbs valve springs. Check out the links below and let us know what you think!!!
Parts & Products Used In This Video
18Lbs Valve Springs - bit.ly/2QPD34e
Throttle Top Plate - bit.ly/3buiBOs
Billet Flywheel - bit.ly/2vDOft1
Slipstream Flywheel - bit.ly/3C4kFM9
Stage 2 Kit - bit.ly/3HdeCGE
Air Filter & Jet - bit.ly/3kZ96wr
Header - bit.ly/3Wx2bf4
Build Your Own Header Kit - bit.ly/2NDPdM9
3 Disc Racing Clutch - bit.ly/2HXseYN
Juggernaut CVT Pulley - bit.ly/3aAl355
Mega Moto Mini Bike Kit - bit.ly/3aPEfM6
Magnetic Oil Dipstick - bit.ly/3Ylg7do
MSD Coil - bit.ly/3wn8uX2
Amsoil - bit.ly/3TWtrmM
Merch & Events - bit.ly/33YbmtO
Check Out Go Power Sports for all your Go kart needs! bit.ly/2viX9vP
Parts & Tools used on the channel - amazon.com/shop/redbeardsgarage
Quantum Machinery- Siegmund Welding Table - bit.ly/36PHm6G
- Nargesa CC60 Bender - bit.ly/2xWDVxj
Prime Weld Tig 225x - amzn.to/3L4U3MG
Prime Weld MIG180- amzn.to/3KVUPvn
Amsoil Affiliate - bit.ly/3TWtrmM
Benchmark Abrasives (cut-off wheels, flap discs..) bit.ly/2SENg4f save 10% REDBEARD10
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*********Disclaimer*********
Please do not try to re-enact or recreate anything you see in these videos. We are trained professionals. Red Beards Garage does not take any responsibility for injury's created by doing so.
#RBGKarts #RedBeardsGarage
00:00 Intro
00:22 Stage 1 Recap
00:41 Stage 2 Plans
02:50 Removing the stock carb
03:43 How to remove the push rods
03:59 How to remove the cam
04:03 How to remove the oil sensor
04:18 How to remove the governor
04:33 How to remove the flywheel
05:00 How to remove the governor gear
05:30 Governor plug bolt size
05:41 Oil sensor plug bolt size
06:11 How to put a cam in
06:23 Stock Side cover torque specs
06:35 How to install 18lb Valve Springs
08:04 How to install a billet flywheel
09:25 How to hook up the throttle
09:53 Top speed test
11:51 Top speed test results/ comparison
12:09 Dyno Test - Stock
12:53 Dyno Stage 1
13:31 Dyno Governor Deleted
14:19 Dyno results breakdown

[@danielmott8830]

Fantastic Vids. Love the walk through of the upgrades and setting expectations. This info will be super helpful if you're building on a budget; knowing when to buy what parts in what order. Keep up the great work!

[@weebinniec]

This is 100% the way to make a mini petrol head. Once you understand the basics on a small engine the sky’s the limit. Your way of making videos and teaching are second to none.

[@markyoung9964]

Every dyno test creates half a dozen more testing combinations!- to infinity and beyond! You’re doing great,exciting videos

[@kwatt-engineer796]

Thanks for the work you are doing for all of us. You have just kicked the tech content of your channel up to the next level. Your dyno results with the cam have convinced me to stick with the stock cam on my off-road build where low speed torque will be more useful than max HP at high RPM. I can hardly wait for the 440 series of tests.

[@westie4ageturbo.749]

Greg dont forget that its not just peak hp and torque. Area under the curve makes a huge difference The amount of the rev range that is increased makes a bigger gain than a peak hp that is felt at the top of the rev range I could not see ( not sure that the scale is the same between the two results or im just blind) that there was more power under the curve in the later pull. Great series !!

[@CastleBravo187]

Some of the best how to camera work I've seen. The editing and narration is also top notch. This is like the gold standard guys I hope you're very proud of your work! I'm loving this series!!!

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you man. It really means a lot to her positive thoughts.

[@regularpit1508]

​@@RedBeardsGarage I wish for oil temp to know if it actually stays cooler in a certain RPM range

[@FZ1RIDER]

About a year ago I bought my first used monster Moto (just a roller) put a brand new 224 predator, with the help of your videos I did away with governor completely, put real mikuni carb and performance exhaust, I stretched the bike 6 in and others things like steering damper and a nice chain tensioner. Now I'm ready to go billet rod, flywheel and some headwork and let's not forget a cam. I'm not exactly sure how far I want to go with valves and cam size but with your videos I've got all the info I need. You've been a big help and thanks for your outstanding work and videos.

[@CraftComputing]

This is such a great series so far. It's awesome seeing you dive into, step by step, what can be done with engines like this.

[@Bdmrr]

Did not expect to see you here lol .

[@tommybally03]

absolutely fantastic videos, it’s really nice to see the parts proven. This will help so many people plan their projects and budget appropriately.

[@tgeesliniii2747]

The progression already this early in the series is awesome. Keep up the great work.

[@philip4x4guy]

I had a magnet come off a stage 1 motor but heavy cart and steep hill got the rpm to who knows? Broke the magneto off the block and went through the sheet metal cover, convinced me I'd want a flywheel if I was going to turn it up!

[@nadesbro6872]

Me and my brother are rebuilding one and have a billet rod and flywheel and putting a Mikuni carb on it.

[@MrWarwick15]

Thanks for all your great content in 2022 Guys! Happy New Year and all the best from me, an English Guy living in France. Rich. Take good care of yourselves X

[@adambailey9828]

Bro. I can’t say thank you enough. I have been waiting. To get the juggernaut for about five months now in this video made me go and look to see if they were in stock. I have never ordered something faster.

[@curtbelshe]

This is the best small engine/go kart mini bike site on the web. This series passes on REAL knowledge that can be acted upon. Thanks for the great videos and great camera work/editing. It give me confidence (maybe false confidence) to act upon the information I see here. Thanks so much. Now what I really need is a way to upgrade my engine AND have electric starter….. I don’t think there is a billet flywheel with the starter teeth is there?

[@mikemuzzell5167]

Great segment. Engine masters small engine edition. 😊. I haven’t watched your videos in a couple years. I’m sorry. But now that I’m back you’ve done a fantastic job with this KZbin channel. I remember you leaving your job for this. Good job Greg.

[@PaulThomas-qo9vy]

Great data & video Greg! Yes, a UEGO (Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen) wideband from now on. This will answer questions I've had for years about whether air-cooled gasoline engines should be run richer than water-cooled (to keep it from overheating the air-cooled eng.), OR just the same AFR as water-cooled. Greg, please include a CHT (cylinder head temp) thermocouple (spark plug ring type is fine) also.Get spares, they are delicate. This will help see effects of AFR changes on CHT & detonation threshold. 👍😎

[@bryanboyer5415]

How about adding a supplement video for each episode. Details about tools needed, products installed and fuel/lubricants used. I know a lot of people are new to small engines. Details mentioned previously in an episode supplemental video would be appreciated by many. Thanks for taking the time produce these videos. You are providing a service needed by DIY people. 😃

[@denniswenn8429]

you guy deserve more attention to this channel, so underrated

[@markyoung9964]

I agree. Red Beard is the hardest working man on you tube. His behind the scenes efforts are enormous!

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you!

[@sasquatch_886]

I highly recommend when doing this to get a vm22 carburetor at the minimum. Ditch having an annoying spring throttle cable setup and attaches directly into the carburetor. More performance, easier, cheaper.

[@kraftzion]

You could try an offset key to set the advance back before adding the cam and carb. I think you are right and the advance doesn't play well with the current configuration. Also can check non advanced and advanced after carb/cam upgrade.

[@a1racer441]

im enjoying the real-world test and tune series with dyno results, I was not expecting the dyno results because it seemed to be a ton quicker, I was assuming it made a bit more power not just moved the power around in the rpm range.

[@WorldofTon]

another bangin' video RB. Can't hardly wait for the next one.

[@jameshleba8463]

hot dang bubba, you arent making us wait for those dyno builds! I cant wait to see what the end of this series shows for an ultralight build.

[@bryduhbikeguy]

Thank you again for another great year of videos.Your builds and play always entertain and teach us.I hope the New Year sees your family safe and happy still,and that we may continue to enjoy watching your videos.Happy Trails to all who view.

[@DarkLinkAD]

This might be your greatest series ever, its gonna be hard to step up from this presentation and info quality.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you!

[@reviewaccount469]

I don't remember any challenging builds in 2022, but I hope '23 will be an outstanding year for content.

[@rocknrye9273]

Can't wait to see a 22mm Carb, 22lb Springs & a Hot265 in it! That's what I have. I'm hoping 15hp 🙏 lol plus got the billet side cover.

[@albinklein7680]

You can adjust the timing about 3-4 degrees with offset flywheel keys. If one is available in that size.I was lucky one time because my crank had the same key as the camshaft from a Mercedes diesel. Mercedes sells those offset keys for high mileage engines with worn timing chains.

[@ScarletKnightmare]

I learned on Chevy smallblocks, but this community of Predator engine enthusiasts is somehow much cooler. I dig it man. It's grassroots 👍🏼

[@GrantOakes]

Very interesting! I think you're absolutely right about the carb restricting the torque and hp at the higher revs.

[@modelnutty6503]

true, but these type engines do have a lower rpm speed limit too if you want them to last a little while. maximizing torque+horses under 5K may be the better goal, along with starting its power band at lower rpm's too. no intent to troll with that, these splash oil types are what they are.

[@lautarocasas6]

@@modelnutty6503once u want anything over 10hp u need to juice all the rpms over 7k+ to build it at the engine displacement

[@SurlyMike]

The timing advance makes more sense along with the performance cam. I wonder what would happen if you pulled some timing out with this exact setup, I'd bet you get some torque back down low.

[@montanasoftware5954]

This is the way it should be done. I wish I had a small engine dyno. Please do this with a Briggs Vanguard 23HP 627cc engine. Thanks!

[@brianbugher5156]

I’m loving this this is cool to see the type of stuff a small engines. Get to see it with a 4 6 8 cylinder car motors but never with lawnmowers. I like this a lot.

[@MichaelMartin-bl9qj]

First off love the channel, keep up the great work. I do a lot of garden tractor pulling. I see your getting a good bit of after market parts which is great news. I'd be really cautious with turning those kind of rpms with a stock cast crankshaft. that's the heart beat of the motor. and when it goes, it takes out everything inside your motor. You may want to get your rotating assy balanced. That will definitely help with harmonic vibration in which is a crank shaft killer from high rpms.

[@Wilson_Racing]

Have you thought about a chain tensioner for the dyno? That chain was dangerously floppy on the last pull

[@modelnutty6503]

the flailing/noise can throw readings down some too.

[@johnp6046]

Great video series! I needed a 7/16 x 3/4” bolt for oil sensor hole on mine to keep it clear of the rod.

[@hollygish]

Love the series! Very informative and the format is great.

[@chuckb9867]

Red beard is the best I love a lot of focus on safety helmets when riding like you were and scared of flywheel exploding don't blame you thanks for telling youngsters awesome series

[@1979augistine]

Hope you and you family had a wonderful Christmas and hopefully the new years brings you all that you wish . Thanks for all the great videos and hard work you have provided so many with awesome entertainment huge , huge thank you

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thanks for the support!

[@cotycaudle427]

Wow... This was an incredibly thorough video!

[@nathanielbarbeau4821]

I’m going to pick up a 224 for my first go-kart build. Can’t wait to modify it like this!

[@codykinney7590]

An interesting series, that I'm gonna follow all the way through! Thank you for putting in the work and being so informative. If your near western North Carolina I'd love to meet you and work with you, see I'm also a red beard and love working in the garage

[@wesleyrutter1940]

Would be nice to see the stock timing using an 8 degree key with the billet flywheel.

[@AzzasBuildsandadventures]

Hey Red Beard...i dont have anything to do with these motors anymore but am injoying this series so far.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thanks for sharing!

[@bud009m]

should also test differences in 22mm, 24mm and 28mm carbs

[@burtmoore2101]

Awesome video everyone! We just removed the governor on our new 224 engine and are waiting to upgrade the rod and flywheel before we fire it up too! We also swapped the cam and valve springs for maximum effort 👌

[@chriscollison3136]

I have basically the exact stage swap less the makuni carb to the Nibbi 28mm racing and wheni ram it with my phone on speedo application I hit 52mph. I have a short header and it sounds like a Harley. Can’t really afford togo any further cause someone stole my bike and soled it for 300$ worth of drugs I’ve been told! Probly won’t be able to get another bike for a while cause of the whole Covid and being the only one whitout kids on my crew so I got laid off! Anywho love the channel! My first and only subscription! Be safe

[@nathanhiemstra8228]

I CANNOT wait until the next one! I love small engine upgrades!

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you for watching

[@kylereese4822]

@@RedBeardsGarage An idea... a 3 cylinder radial engine using 3 250cc cylinders, bores/heads/rods... and for cooling use a beetle fan/shroud oh and fit to a shortened beetle and g/box.... ? Home made Radial engine video.. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKmXYoCHZ62ea80&ab_channel=LetsLearnSomething The Shorty Beetle.. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGjPZoGDf9x6lbM

[@Kingjulian-]

Love these dyno tests.keep up the great work

[@lawrencecoleman7850]

Loving this series keep up the great work

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@lawrencecoleman7850]

@@RedBeardsGarage I feel like this series show us how much gain we are getting from what parts we are getting I can't wait until you put the non hemi Head on the hemi block I want to do that to my engine but I don't know about the roller rockers and push rod length cause of the head being milled I may have to go with the non hemi Head and not have it milled do you build engines for people if they were to pay for it upfront

[@tinygaragepowersports0122]

Spot on about the ignition timing moving your powerband. Can we all take a moment to give the stock connecting rod a round of applause?? It was revving into the 6K territory and held! Very impressive. I'd also love to see a spark plug shootout. I am NOT a fan of the Torch Chinesium plugs....I put an NGK BPR6ES-11 in my Hemi and I swear to the Almighty it started and idled easier, ran crisper, and felt overall better. NGK goes in every engine I own :D Curious to see if minor gains can be found in plug type/gap.

[@brandoncoffyn8024]

Been a week I really can't wait for the next video

[@smsservicesall]

I'm excited to see that stage too but it seem like that chain on the dyno needs tensioner

[@lonniemiller4078]

Just found your channel and very much love the content u put there but was wondering if you have or could do a video on how to set up a rpm gauge???

[@benjaminevans1171]

Best small engine series ever 👍👍👍

[@darwindodge6260]

I would like to see a test with different timing changes to see if you can get anymore out of that set up

[@xXPXSERXx]

ik this has been out for a min but its still helping me to this day

[@jaredbudzinski8434]

I can’t wait to see the supercharged engines on here!

[@bertusbredenhann7215]

Lol just love dyno vids... Even if it's a mini bike motor. Very cool

[@donaldyurko1284]

I love this!! Thank you for posting!

[@GrimFate1]

I can't wait to see this thing at the full upgrade

[@MuckCanada]

New to the channel, loving it:) Why the oil sensor delete? I'm sure the answer is well known but I haven't touched a small engine in 20 years outside of maintenance.

[@Buses2Bikes]

Excellent series guys. I'm watching intently to see what I could be doing to my Minibike. One question I had concerning the Dyno readings. Do you think the Clutch might also contribute to the weird readings? I don't recognize the clutch that is on the engine when you show the Dyno runs.

[@travissiegenthaler9355]

Great video. Very informative. I have one extra washer that I'm not sure where it goes. Is there a washer between the cam shaft and flywheel side of the inner housing? It's a bit smaller diameter than the washer on the Governor gear.

[@brandoncoffyn8024]

I'm over here already ready to watch the next episode lol 😆

[@RedBeardsGarage]

I'm really enjoying this too! I don't want to leave the garage. lol

[@butziporsche8646]

That increase in the previous video (state 1) was quite impressive especially considering how minor the mods were.

[@christopherbice862]

makes me wonder about a valve spring upgrade on the stage 1

[@theworstgamervr]

So the next video should be, the mikuni on a gov delete then like a thinner head gasket then port and polish before we ever get into talking a cam. Be interesting to see what head work will really do. Thinner head gasket should make alot of power honestly

[@RDarrylB]

Cool series! I noticed that you didn't adjust the valve lash. Is that because you didn't change the cam, so the stock settings "should" be fine, or was that just an oversight? Thanks for what you do!

[@daevincaldwell3201]

In older videos you never used the throttle plate, or used the tools for the valves. You would use a spring tensioner.

[@tjslifeispie]

Love this series man!!!

[@greatbull67]

Im really enjoying these. Thank you

[@kyleturzinski3694]

Awesome video but my 7/16 x 1” bolt hits the crank shaft when installed. Will have to find a 3/4” long bolt

[@mikesbarn1858]

You might try opening the coil gap to 60 thousand for more performance.

[@chrisssmallengines7163]

Good videos , I noticed on the dyno that he drive chain looks very loose because it flying around so much . Could a bigger chain a little tighter help .

[@DanITGuy]

LOVE IT REDBEARD!! KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING!! #REDRUNNINWILD #WATCHTHIS #SMALLENGINEDYNO

[@brandongouge]

You are truly a gift to the mini bike community but very detrimental to my wallet 🤣. For real though, great work brother! We appreciate all the effort and detail you put into making these videos.

[@Minibike817]

Love this series 👏👏

[@dillonking2624]

Can’t wait to see the next one

[@wishbone20t]

I believe the billet flywheel is also heavier than the original that is going to reduce power. Rotating mass is a big factor in racing engines, You want to build a racing engine as light as possible but strong enough to stay together. 1lb stationery equals 6 lbs spinning- at the scale it might be ounces but it still makes a huge difference.

[@turneynicholas]

Hoping that at the end of the series we'll see a ghost on the Dyno

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will do a ghost in the next week or so.

[@johnsheetz6639]

This is a cool series!

[@NONAME-kw3pu]

GX 200 Honda modified on youtube flat top piston and billet rod, NR RACING .274 CAM. 27 & 25 mm valves in a fully ported cylinder head. extreme SA carbs. The head is milled to give about 11.4 compression ratio and runs 1.2 ratio billet rocker arms with their dual valve springs and aluminum retainers.... ~.333" lift with that cam and 1.2 rockers

[@jakedrew7365]

Good stuff. Thanks for doing all this.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

You bet

[@wickedcomics7942]

Love the videos learning so much question is why do you remove the oil sensor

[@possumcreektradingcompany]

Really enjoy your channel and videos! Quick question…I just replaced 6.5 hp with a 7.5 hp side shaft on my sons Hammerhead. The Series 30 clutch converter is too small inner diameter to fit on the new shaft. The old one is 3/4 and online recommends going to a 1 inch, but that seems too big. Do you have any idea which size would work for us? Thanks.

[@tsuinburedo8247]

Just got a brand new 212 Hemi for cheap, did some tricks to it, stock rod, stock cam, switched the head over to a non hemi head. Got it spinning to 5700 rpm. Has about a solid 4 hours and it’s great.

[@lawrencecoleman7850]

What did you do to switch the head to a non hemi I'm thinking about doing the same thing

[@tsuinburedo8247]

@@lawrencecoleman7850 you need a hon hemi head ofc, and stock length non hemi pushtubes. The ones I have are 5.34”

[@timothywilliams2021]

You should only do one change at a time. That way you can tell what difference each change makes.

[@chipbruner2412]

Hey RB! Awesome Series! Could you add Watts to the list of output stats of the dyno? I would like to see that number as well! Thanks!

[@GodschildinNC]

can you do a dyno run with a torque converter in place? It would be interesting to see the curves. I like this series. So cool to see actual numbers.

[@wildefox1478]

Just found your channel and subbed, I just picked up a Predator 212 hemi from Harbor Freight for my Doodlebug mini bike build and it's interesting to see how the different upgrades affect the performance. I intend on leaving it stock for a little while but will eventually do some mods to it. Should I disconnect the oil sensor, will the oil sensor cause problems bouncing around on a mini bike?

[@seansysig]

RBG The Road To Horsepower Analytics is great content and explains better the stages. How about adding dollars per stage of upgrade. Also I’m 6’2” 280 lbs. looking for full suspension off road mini bike and ideas?

[@snitch216]

I'm new here. Great content. I'd love to beef up a lawnmower engine. I'd love to watch that series.

[@christopherbice862]

Looking at the dyno results, would a valve spring upgrade on the stage 1 pay off? It looked like it might be based on the dyno curve.

[@joshy_h_8088]

would be cool to see a flywheel explode.... u know... for scientific purposes... to see what the limit really is

[@RedBeardsGarage]

I want to but a little scared lol. They say they’re violent when they go.

[@joshy_h_8088]

@@RedBeardsGarage I'd be a little scared too... the unknown is always sketchy

[@GrantOakes]

@@RedBeardsGarage Operate the dyno by remote from the next zip code, that'll make it much safer, LOL.

[@RogerSegerJr]

We had one come apart back in 2002. It was on a Robin that we were building for a go cart. The owner of the shop lost his left arm when it grenaded & we were both behind safety shields. Lesson learned: Leave the governor until you have the flywheel rated for what you want.

[@njmxjunkie3128]

@@RedBeardsGarage it’s IF they go….. I’ve ran 100s both plastic and cast iron never seen one blow. Although the plastics highly likely to eventually go

[@dougdroen7519]

Great video Can't seem to find the link to what type of air tool your using

[@travishall67]

Those stiffer valve springs will also suck up a little power with all else being equal. I understand you need them to be stronger to avoid the potential float issue but everything is a trade-off. It takes power to make power. Not trying to criticize your video at all. I enjoyed it and thank you for sharing. Just saying the stiffer valve springs might be somewhat responsible for you not seeing the power gains you were hoping to here. 🍻

[@amandahanson8188]

You should add the link for the valve holding air tool. That was slick not gonna lie.

[@modelnutty6503]

fair enough! generally most 4 strokes peak horse+torque's intersect about 5150 rpm (easy to remember its the code for crazy), but most Briggs types can't oil much past 4500, all splash no pressure at ANY bearings, so you're kinda stuck unless ya don't care if it pops. better realistic strategy is maximizing horse+torques at a lower rpm, is more carburetor+flow+fuel+mixture dependent and specific! (check out UTG and DV "mission impossible 318" project) where does that go? carb size and jetting, ports bowls and valves, then exhaust pulse diameter+length tuning. changing timing and valve lift can change the other factors.. (is a module reading rpm and adjusting+advancing spark timing out there to be had? even a VW bug has a vacuum advance distributor to help make power.) to me this means factory valve springs may suffice, governor in place is OK too. if you have a lathe+skills, factory cam minus .010 from opposite of lobes = more lift, .015 or .020 spacers under the springs = a bit more pre-load to snap them shut quick. lightening and re-balancing factory flywheel+crank may do a lot for accelerating through its power band.. which isn't very big to begin with, that you want starting sooner at lower RPM's so they don't run dry and burn up (no power) for spinning TOO darn fast. there's a potential for a 46-4800 rpm max power low budget mod-build, that runs stronger with less risk of self destruction, by spending more time than money on it. when done its more about "what gear ratio?". shave the block and head? head gasket thickness? compression ratio and fuel choice is relative to *everything* above, from what I've been seeing... "all the above" is a bit of a strategy+goal shift for making more usable power. if its fuel injection instead, there's potential to force the intake a little bit (3-4 lbs?) using a 40-50 mm electric ducted fan unit for a model jet, just to boost power+acceleration a few seconds. 3lb (3/14) could give 21%, 4lb (4/14) maybe 28% more power.. the 14 roughly being normal ambient air 14 psi. small ducted fan and ESC aren't expensive and could be fit into an air filter. its all just stuff to think about and experiment with, slower revving engines do like higher octane fuels, helps torque.

[@timothyhackett7372]

ive had a stock flywheel come apart before.. just after removing the governor arm i put the engine back on the cart with the clutch removed then started the engine. it immediately revved to the moon because i forgot to put a return spring on the throttle. i backed away because i thought it was a lost cause, and sure enough the stock flywheel magnet came off at what sounded like 6-7000 rpm. the magnet had so much energy it ripped the coil off the block, mounts included, then went through the cover and continued to collect the carburetor on its way to the stratosphere.