Predator 212cc Stage 1 With Dyno Results ~ The Road to Horsepower Ep1

[@TheShepard5348]

Loud pipes save life's --- Jesus Christ saves soul's --- but ------------ mufflers make horse power. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[@jeanlawson9133]

AIN'T IT JUST AIN'T IT 😎

[@fish_R_stinky69]

@@thehemiolds455 False. If you make the straight pipe longer, it will make MORE power than the muffler.

[@RC_Trailblazers]

Back pressure and exhaust scavenging are real things. Having a little bit of back pressure in either a longer pipe or even in this case a muffler causes a small vacuum between the strokes in the pipe and head when the exhaust valve opens and the exhaust gasses are forced out. That little vacuum helps pull more of the burnt gasses from the cylinder head allowing the next combustion cycle to burn cleaner and make more power since there is more clean air and less burnt air if you will. To much back pressure can hurt performance though too. Hence why millions of dollars go into R&D when building a high performance engine.

[@SpACeCruizeR2o3]

My bike is faster when I add the wd40 homemade can on but with the 3stage from go powersports go on get u a d battery maglight hollow it out pop it on and man u will have alot more deeper power then I messed around at the electric department at home depot scored me a trumpet attachment from the light lamp section it really makes it faster now too on the cheap

[@fish_R_stinky69]

@@jeanlawson9133 Mufflers don't make horsepower.

[@mikesbarn1858]

The whole concept is awesome. Helps everyone decide how far they want to go. This may be your best series yet.

[@warpedangel20]

This will be the true game changer. I won't be able to get enough of this.

[@lizzard7473]

The world needed this. Thank you for this build.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you for watching!

[@chickenlittle5916]

Amen

[@cupwalker24.7]

Harbor freight has kept a ton of lady's and gentleman on the track and on the road for many years !! And that deserves more than tons of respect.... Without these engines alot of people's dreams would not be able to be accomplished in life .

[@srmatrong]

9:19 just to let everyone know. The header pipe they put in the description, they had to weld the pipe and the fitting together, it does not come pre put together

[@johnmattinson3513]

You should make a score board like the British top gear used to do but with hp numbers instead of lap times. You should include engine cost and stage. Like first would be, stock 212 $129 6.5 hp, Then 212 stage one $200 9 hp. You could add to it every episode.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

I will do that sir. Thanks for the idea. Ill give you a shout out when we do that!

[@james10739]

I didn't expect that much of a difference

[@michaelnelson7305]

One thing to consider is A/F ratio, keeping it consistent after each change will give better results. After removing the muffler, the engine may have been too lean to make power....

[@fish_R_stinky69]

Then it'll make LOADS more power when you rejet it.

[@kinotransam]

That A/F Ratio sensor would really improve your tuning capabilities to get the max power. If the 17.7 AFR that was displayed is what that engine was actually producing, it's entirely way too lean. Most naturally aspirated engines like to be between 12-13.5 AFR. General rule of thumb is the right timing for torque, and the right AFR for horsepower, but both tuning aspects effect both parameters in different ways.

[@davidperryman1759]

I love this series… I’ve always wondered just what performance differences there are with each stage of performance mods! Thanks guys, y’all are great! Keep up the good work

[@davidperryman1759]

I don’t have telegram

[@michealarburn9861]

It's the most fantastic idea for a series ever! I didn't have four wheelers or dirt bikes growing up I was fortunate enough to have a pile of yard carts. I always built traded and swapped trying to squeeze more power from them. It will be amazing to see the before and after results of all the types of stuff I used to do. I will be here for every one of these.

[@transformationproject3583]

I extended a light fun kart the same way they did lil red here for an adult, 212 with carb upgrades and a header, no governor. torque converter with a 48 tooth sprocket. around 4' of ground clearance. I weight 265lbs clothed. Results: around 43mph, spins tires easy in gravel with live axle, fast acceleration, I can stop and climb any hill out here with ease, it will drive through fields with 4' tall grass no problems. It always starts with ease. If I do anything it would be add a billet flywheel for safety. I rap mine out but never hold it there. I have driven this kart for miles on road trips instead of taking my atv. Cool thing is im the only one out here in my rural area cruising one of these things. Honestly im not sure why more people dont have one lol. It just seems the big blocks are more work. I would consider twin 212s. Ive found since I was a kid that the lighter frames and more reliable engines were always the best combination for care free fun. I do have a vintage mcculloch f1 frame and im seriously considering selling off some of my prized junk and getting a tillotson 225 for it. I think if you dont leave them floored all the time it would be another reliable kart.

[@ryanswiggart7553]

Got in an argument with the tech barn last weekend when they claimed no mufflers make more power. Thanks for proving me right!

[@CastleBravo187]

I've got a Pred 212cc sitting new in the box in my garage, I'm looking forward to this series!!!

[@billbalke7572]

I love what you do !!! Saves alot of us from the expensive mistakes and helps us get it right the first time. Thanks to your sponsors for helping you out ...

[@miketee2444]

This is a fairly simple idea that I'm sure many have wondered the answers to. Many have wondered that actually had the equipment and means to find answers. You are just the one that took the time to plan the tests and gather what is needed to get data. Thanks, it's not a lazy man's game for sure. I always knew y'all had it going in the right direction.

[@tommybally03]

Finally a no BS way to see what each modification does! Absolutely what we (your viewers) wanted! I would ask the you please consider running a test tube (exhaust with bung and wide band 02 sensor) to keep an eye on the air to fuel ratio. There by ensuring that each fuel mod isn’t adding too much or too little fuel. If you’re interested in doing so I might have an new extra wide band and gauge squirreled away in my garage.

[@danf4616]

Stage 1 Speed Gains are actually: 0 - 35 ---> 20.1%, 0 - 39 ---> 33.5% Still pretty darn good! 👍👍

[@donduck6195]

Yes yes yes!!! This is what I've been waiting for. I know you're going to be doing lots of other Dyno tuning, but if you are taking requests... I would love to see a dyno shootout between a gx390, predator 420, Duramax 440, and predator 459. Stock / stage 1 for all of them. I would love to know if the Honda is underpowered and if the Duramax makes their claimed HP etc. Keep up the badass videos

[@chipbruner2412]

Excellent job RB and crew! Awesome way to start a series!

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you for supporting!

[@jasongrinnell1986]

Wow! What a game changer. Love seeing the results with the modified parts.

[@ericmorgan7657]

This is so awesome,Thank You!!!!......I pray you do a wildcat 223.

[@jwish29]

Very excited for this series. Maybe only show one of the dyno runs from each variation though? Seemed to drag on seeing the entire pull of each run.

[@montanasoftware5954]

Awesome video! Please do this with a Briggs 627 vanguard 23hp engine. Thanks!

[@TheWildernessFamily]

No Hemi's near us. Would love to see a Predator224 build like this! That is what we plan on buying.

[@cjsexton5380]

Ya this is the best video for the small engine community in awhile

[@TheFastKart]

@redbeards garage - Lets prove its the timing causing the torque loss by putting an offset key in to retard the timing 4 degrees. We all need to see this in action to be sure we know what works and what doesn't. Thank you for a great series of videos!

[@SRT-Dani]

Can’t wait for the 224 dyno run

[@jeffreypowell3427]

Enjoyed the video, and thanks for investing in the dyno, it’s good to finally be able to see some numbers on these parts.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Big thanks to Mark for the dyno. Its a game changer for sure.

[@delandbrooks3291]

This makes the mods comparable. I want to see this same testing done against a Ghost.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will in an upcoming video.

[@TheFastKart]

Awesome! Finally, we've got a guy that's providing the straight-up no bull scoop on what works and what doesn’t. Thank you RB and thank you Aimsoil for making it possible. Can't wait for more of this!

[@jimciancio9005]

Awesome tool my man! Thanks for someone finally doing something like this with actual numbers to back up the claims! And let me know when you have a Dyno capable of handling a Briggs Vanguard 570 fully modified billet, chrome-moly and roller everything inside and out, oh and its also superchargerd via a Eaton belt driven supercharger. I'd be afraid of it breaking your new machine there!?!? Lol! Believe it makes somewhere up in the triple digits if not right at them? But definitely worth the time and effort to make these videos to show the differences between the modified engines and how they change its characteristics and performance levels. Where you may gain power you may lose torque and this will be really interesting to see how it goes with a billet flywheel??? I believe the one on the Vanguard was something stupid weight wise difference? Like almost 20lbs down to a 7+lb flywheel. It was worth the money to get one of the ARC billet wheels when you're acceleration more than quadruples off idle!

[@cedhome7945]

Might want a chain guide/tension just to be safe. Great to see what gets the most gains for your bucks

[@RedBeardsGarage]

The floppy side of the chain is the return. I will be building a few guards to protect from several things lol.

[@officiallistengreatmuzik]

What is a chain guide/tension? I've had issues on my gokart with the chain break since I've did a stage 1 upgrade

[@chadtetrault1386]

Looking forward to seeing how rocker ratio changes the powerband depending on camshaft selection

[@madixj]

Awesome! I definitely noticed a difference when I added the stage 1 kit! The only problem I found was that if I put any jet bigger than stock, the engine would have terrible valve float, but I found the stock jet with an upgraded emulsion tube worked great and I'm loving it!

[@jeffrykopis5468]

Well, hell, bud, why not put stiffer springs CO in? You can do it by hand in under an hour! 24 lb springs won't float with a stock cam.

[@madixj]

@Jeffry Kopis yeah, the only problem is if I replace the springs, I'll then probably blow up the flywheel/rod, and I can't really afford billet parts or a new engine right now 😅

[@jeffrykopis5468]

@@madixj If it still has the governor in it, can it turn much over 5000?

[@madixj]

@Jeffry Kopis if it has the governor, you're fine, but I took the governor out 🫤

[@morgunfreedom4346]

Going to be a great series... How about flathead briggs up on there

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will be doing that soon sir. Thanks for watching!

[@thewildernessfactor2667]

Love the vid I’ve done lots of big bore kits and stroker cranks on the gy6 engines, now I’m looking forward building my 212 on my go kart now because of you

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We have everything you can think of coming. Stay tuned and thanks for watching!!!

[@lungsup]

This will be like Richard Holdener's videos proving what works and what doesn't. Useful beyond description.

[@a1racer441]

I liked this shows a very clear with numbers and real world test before and after.

[@glenproctor795]

With no muffler it's running lean ...still needs bigger jet with no muffler....or getting drag pipe sag... great video

[@OGTtom]

Great information Greg , thank you , will definitely watch the next video .

[@Thorbrook]

That's awesome. Can't wait for the next one. It's definitely my new fav series

[@TheFastKart]

Redbeard can you please post the dyno charts so we can see the curves. I want to know more than just peak HP and Torque. It's the area under the curves that counts, not just the peak.

[@charlesgraham9954]

sweet.! iv been waiting for a channel to do this, I'm glad its u RBG.

[@seansysig]

RBG awesome series! Can’t wait for next video in he series.

[@3dconceptsofutah757]

Thanks Red Beard! Great to see the data! Like you mentioned, it's hard to quantify stuff just by feel. Cheers mate!

[@rollinwithrobbie]

I hope you do a stock muffler shoot out. Maybe a semi built 212 testing the stock 212 and 224 mufflers... i am trying to make a lil more power with my 212 generator.

[@kevindangeleit6679]

Would like to see a comparison with performance parts and a stock muffler to see how much restriction there is on overall hp.

[@jonathanzimmerman2976]

I can't wait till you get everything possible done to it and see the numbers enjoy your show Merry Christmas and God bless

[@devivoman]

For sure this needed to happen, you have been showing a true talent with your build and fabrication quality on KZbin for some time now, I'm glad that you will be delivering this content. Thank you for bringing it to us.

[@kevinjohnson9372]

This pretty neat stuff show what a thin head gasket or porting may do b4 u cam swap it I know u mentioned non hemi head for compression bump and valve to piston clearance

[@brianking1138]

Great video. I am looking forward to the rest of them.

[@LordFred69]

just bought a 224 cc so appreciate this video

[@lloydbaker7099]

Great addition to the channel

[@troysmoliak4924]

I would just like to say Merry Christmas and a Happy New Years to you red beard and your family I really don't hope you're having a good one God bless and amen to all of you my respect from Canada. Oh yeah I almost forgot Lonnie Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year's to you and your family as well.

[@jitsnydzer6302]

The next episode is the one I want to see. When you add a flywheel to a 212 it becomes FAR more expensive than a modded gy6, I'm curious to see how much that extra money will net you with ~40cc more displacement. Can a 2x more expensive 212 setup top the extremely cost effective gy6 lol

[@everettdavenport3135]

Great video. Would like to see a non hemi built the way I build them on the dyno. Just to know what they make. I go kart race with them

[@Goblingimp]

just wanted to say i love your channel every video is so clean and professional

[@MrSaaadpanda]

Could you do a continuation of this video with just changing the jets to see if you can gain more power from it before it runs to lean like going up and down one size from stock that would be a cool video to see on the dyno since you are the only one online that has a dyno for theses types of engines. again thank you for posting all these videos!!!

[@tblosser8921]

most likely the power loss without the muffler was from heat soak, when doing comparisons always do the test the same way, this is the same reason at the drag strip everybody has there hoods off and fans going between every round.

[@marvicty]

This dyno is a game changer plus Lonnie in the vids is always a good thing

[@mlindsay527]

I like seeing some real numbers! Pick up an adjustable jet for the stock carb so you can tweak the A/F mix without having to swap jets between runs. I’d also like to see a O2 sensor on an exhaust for tuning.

[@devenbelanger8463]

I love this series. Great work. Educational and informative.

[@DangOldHillBilly]

GOOD STUFF. Can not wait to see the Predator 224. Excellent job guys.

[@GibsonsGarage]

Love the fact you can get hard numbers to put behind these engines now. Make me want to build a drag shopping cart

[@mmoncure11]

Great start to the series, I really appreciate you doing the muffler vs the header. Edit, did you get it all the way to 5k rpm just by removing the throttle stop screw and the governor in? did the valves float?

[@fastcars63]

I have a land and sea dynamometer. My saying is, if you don’t dyno you really don’t know, and I have a super flow, flow bench we test carburetors, heads for carts, even air filters and more if you want it to go it’s really got to flow

[@josephschmier3733]

I love this stuff and the way your doing it. I would love to see preditor Goast vs tillison stage 1

[@clivecole1290]

Excellent, you cant beat empirical data, well done

[@clayhunna7357]

Great series look forward to seeing the figures on a big block. thnx RBG an team

[@ProbeGT2]

This series is really cool! One suggestion, if you can get your hands on a lower stall clutch, we could better see the low-mid range power gains or losses. I never expected a stage one to be that good. I'm trying to find parts to upgrade my briggs and stratton 15hp in my snowdog, i wonder if most of the clone parts would fit.

[@abels_04]

I would say add the performance to dollar ratio as well.

[@daevincaldwell3201]

I’m getting into this small engine world coming from v8 mustang engines. This series is matching exactly what I will be doing through these next few months. I’ll be stopping at stage 3 with a non-hemi 212 similar to your “billet everything” video you’ve posted before. Can’t wait to see the results! I’ll be subscribed and watching all of them!

[@robertwall713]

Wow dude thanks for doing this and sharing it with us !! Currently I am starting a build using and old Bucket Bug go cart that I have picked up from a guy that builds some truly amazing 5 HP Briggs motors, Kato gets upwards of 50 HP out of a crazy built up consisting of custom cast crankcases and the works. Because of parts availability I am using a 212 clone and in the first steps I will be doing the standard stuff like a round slide 26 mm carb, cast flywheel and valve springs and a custom exhaust by me. after I get bored with that combination I will be experimenting with camshafts , cylinder head work and compression ratios. I will be following along closely with your progress, I really like the methods and work you do! Like you I like mufflers I want my performance to do the talking!!!

[@DanielTD2]

Awesome video, can’t wait to see the full build!

[@yoster77]

This series is great!

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thanks for watching!

[@JCTEAM60]

This series is going to be awesome. Great idea to show what effects these actual upgrades have.

[@andyb9994]

Great vid glad to see you got a dyno, we use these engines on race Karts, and this is super helpful info... Thanks!!!💯

[@zachariekelley]

Hay Red Beard could you dyno test a 228r? That would be neat. ✌️

[@8eightfab520]

Can you do the Dyno again with the stock muffler? I ended up taking my pipe and muffler off as it's way too loud and I ended up losing 2 mph on my top speed run with the pipe and muffler on. The stock muffler for me is great as it's way quieter, keep the neighbors from calling the cops on the kiddo and I when we ride around the neighborhood.

[@NatashaB]

Love this. Would also love to see similar rundown for a 420 in the future!

[@shark11175]

Beautiful Editing and Video!

[@kirkclegg5960]

I have plans to build one of these soon. This will be so very helpful!!!

[@TheWildernessFamily]

From my research, the non-hemi model offers better part compatibility and modding options. I sure hope you do a non-hemi 224 build soon :).

[@Haulinbassracing]

how much of the performance change is just the jet? doesnt seem like it needs anything else with the governor still installed, airflow mods like intake and exhaust usually only make a difference if your limited at higher rpm. when you do the governor video could you possibly add, stock with just a jet change, then possibly retest with exhaust and intake separately so we can see what every change makes sort of like engine masters or richard holdner but little guy engines

[@rollinwithrobbie]

I think higher rpms youll get better results with no muffler... we shall see where the dyno leads us. Thanks so much for making these videos for us man that dyno is a game changer.🙌🙌

[@georgedreisch2662]

Might be interesting to add a pipe extension to figure out whether the loss without the muffler was for length. Maybe even try varying length for affect?

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

would be awesome if yall ever got your hands on a honda gx360 twin inline liquid cooled lawn mower engine. 13hp, 20 ft lbs with a tiny carb and awful cast iron ex manifold.

[@igokarts4510]

Had to pop some popcorn for this one.

[@sethgarrett1994]

Love what you're doing brother I'm glad to see you guys doing this the right way with a good reliable dyno

[@051570orion]

I like all the videos you do but these tutorial/instructional videos are really good

[@Spirit_Lanayru]

I'm very excited to see how much power it takes to make that minibike go 50. My personal record on my Coleman CT200U with a mild Honda GX270/44 Series torque converter swapped on is currently 53 MPH

[@NE_OffRoading]

Loved everything about this I remade your yerf dog 32001 and have the 440cc duromax, If that gains 35% hp that'd insane that'd be 24.3. Would love to see that test

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will have big block and v twin stuff coming soon. Just waiting on a few parts to come in.

[@oniefields83]

Man I’m building a 480cc big block I wished I had access to a dyno to see what hp it makes

[@3GingerCats]

ok I'm looking forward to when you put a fire 265 cam (or a Dynocams CM grind), porting of a non hemi head with (0.030) between the top of the flat top piston at TDC and the head... this is basically what I'm running with the cast alloy PVL flywheel from Dynocams and once again I had a race with my neighbours racing mower with a 16hpV twin B&S (had to push start him a few times) and the little 212cc is I think about 16hp but is definitely quicker than the 16hp V twin

[@redman112010]

I used to run a Honda "13hp" 390cc with about 30hp on a pulling tractor. Turned about 6500 to 7000rpm all the way down the track.

[@redman112010]

Also had a Honda 20hp vtwin with at least 50hp that was a torque monster on a pulling tractor.

[@ClericChris]

I'm glad you have a sponsor, it helps pay to do crazy stuff so we can make an educated decision. So, knowing what we know now, you'd have to be a lunatic to put Amsoil in a Predator, then bolt-ons. Let's do the math $40 of oil and $70 in parts .... to gain 2 HP ..... on a $100 6.5HP engine. MADNESS! It's maybe better to just cram in a bigger one.

[@steve310t]

I would like to see some testing with the "stage 1" but a mikuni style carb. Seems like a pretty good progression to me

[@jamesevensen7565]

Might be interesting to play with different length headers just to find the drop off point, When it helps vs when it hurts