Predestination (Aquinas 101)

[@tropifiori]

I did my catechism in the early 1970s when Vatican 2 changes hadn’t quite settled in and the old Boston Catechism had been put aside. It was all pretty sketchy. I am a scientist by training with no real basis in Theology or Philosophy and find it all hard to understand despite me trying to read more about my Faith. These lectures are immeasurably helpful and I hope you can do more of them. Frank

[@ThomisticInstitute]

We plan to keep releasing them!

[@bigbearn1383]

As a scientist , do you follow a Cartesian darwenian philosophy. Another words , do you believe that what you know today has always been the same in the past. If so, you will never know what happened before the fall. Only history can tell us that. There is no scientific proof of the big bang, molecule to man evolution. In fact , science when done honestly says that there is genetic entropy, sedimentation can be explained by a global flood, geocentrism works ( Galileo was wrong is still is ) I suggest you visit the Kolbe centre as it offers scientific evidence , metaphysical and theological principles that follow the teaching if the Church on origins. A good book is Robert Sungenis' Galileo was wrong the Church was right . Also youtube the Eucharistic miracles, statues weeping and investigations from expert scientists. God bless and good luck

[@neuronneuron3645]

@@ThomisticInstitute Why do you only respond to the compliments

[@arete7884]

Anything outside group think is insult , way to think like an npc

[@enderwiggen3638]

@@neuronneuron3645why waste time taking food from children to feed dogs

[@trebmaster]

Thank you for clarifying to the reformed Calvinist crowd that Aquinas is not one of them. They are now claiming that.

[@edrash1]

As one who is Reformed, I see no difference in our doctrine of providence and predestination and that of St. Thomas. Where do you think we differ?

[@BeataeStigmata]

As a Thomist I see no difference. How is it different from standard Calvinism

[@evancawley3236]

​@@edrash1he doesn't say God predestined anyone to sin. Calvinist do

[@michaeltamajong2988]

To be fair, I have never heard a Calvinist saying God predestined anyone to sin

[@BeataeStigmata]

@@evancawley3236 that’s not true, God removes His grace so that sin abounds, but God does not force one to do evil. Both thomist and Calvinist believe this

[@Samuel-dt3ik]

It seems quite true that a lot of modern Catholics balk at the idea of predestination. As a convert, when I first listened to a lecture on Catholic predestination by Fr Thomas Joseph White it blew my mind!

[@ThomisticInstitute]

That's the course listening for this episode at www.aquinas101.com . . .

[@Samuel-dt3ik]

@@ThomisticInstitute lol brilliant, very good lecture

[@garancejaquet5369]

They balk because they do not understand what predestination is.

[@leonardobaldini7196]

@@ThomisticInstitute excuse me, I don't understand how a person who suddenly dies from, let's say, a stroke or an heart attack is "under God's providence" .. Please, tell me the answer

[@brackguthrie9470]

@@leonardobaldini7196 What do you mean "under God's providence". Dying is a natural state.

[@donfrazier9350]

As a Reformed Protestant this channel has rocked me on my heels. The theologians presenting this material obviously love God and the Holy Scriptures and are striving, with all their might, to convey the truths of the Christian faith. While I don't fully agree with some of their conclusions I am convinced that they are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and are doing what Christ commanded - making His disciples. I have signed up for the Aquinas 101 course and look forward to better understanding the teachings of Thomas Aquinas.

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Thanks for your comment, Don - it is very edifying to read! May the Lord bless us both as we seek him in faith with all our strength! And if you're ever thinking about perhaps becoming Catholic (of course, we believe deeply that it is founded by Christ and has remained faithful to Him -- and that you can receive many powerful graces through the Church's sacraments), we'd be happy to help put you in touch with someone you might talk to about it.

[@davidrasch3082]

Predestined we are. Our mission is to make choices consistent with His will for us. That is the hard part for me.

[@erinnncatherine]

I'm right there with you, brother. Let's hold tightly to hope. His Blood is still enough. God bless ya!

[@duelz9366]

Why is that our mission? What does it matter what choices we make if we are predestined?

[@juliusrendon5936]

@@duelz9366 because we still need to choose it you can choose not to be with Gods plan or you can

[@raquelcastillo4954]

"It is important to cooperate with this grace!"

[@helpmaboabb]

Or else...

[@juliusrendon5936]

@@helpmaboabb or else you deal with your consequences

[@helpmaboabb]

@@juliusrendon5936 thank you for making my case for me so clearly

[@Onlyafool172]

​@@helpmaboabbits important to eat! Or else you starve! Its important to work! or else you dont get paid! Its important to follow the law! Or else you get arrested! But when God does its wrong

[@bestpossibleworld2091]

You guys do a great job. Ironically, St. Thomas may be the one who bridges between faithful Catholics and Protestants that are Classical Theists.

[@angelsanabria4457]

Amen!

[@weareanalog]

God bless you dear brother thank you so much for this. May you persevere, pray for me, Daniel

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Praying!

[@johnmceachern5098]

Another thumbs up! These videos help immensely in understanding Saint Thomas Aquinas. I wish you all every good thing God has planned for you!

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Thanks! All the best to you and yours!

[@amaraheising4672]

Thank you Father Legg, the clearest explanation I have listened to. Thank you Father for your saying yes to God, choosing to give your talents and time to Him and us in the Church vs the legal world, which I acknowledge needs intelligent, ethical, men, but their loss has been our great gain.

[@benjamin927]

As a franciscan I say Bravo!

[@MTCatholic]

I remember when I was in Catholic high school dating a girl that was Calvinist. I was lead to believe I was going over to her elders house to eat dinner and visit one night but as I arrived was sat down to challenge my Catholic faith in an attempt to convert me and predestination was the topic at the dinner table among 4 of their church elders. Because I had an amazing aplogietics teacher at my Catholic high school I was able to stand my ground and defend our faith. My teacher asked me to look at it this way, imagine you are at the bottom of a maze or spider web. Because God loves us so much to allow us free will imagine the spider web as a choices through our free will as paths that we decide to take. At the very end of that spider web is the end of your life and God. thank God for that moment because I dug into our faith further and because I dug in discovered more and more beauty and truth in waves that sealed my faith through our churches teachings.

[@jalapeno.tabasco]

if God is omnipotent and omniscient, predestination is true there's no way around it either God knows who will be saved or he doesnt either God chooses who to make and how to make them or he doesn't if God chooses how to make a person, and knows their life, he determines if they will be saved or not before they're even born

[@charles21137]

@@jalapeno.tabascotrue, but people will ignore basic logic to worship their idol called “free will”

[@jalapeno.tabasco]

@@charles21137 yeah, i want feel good gummy bear Christianity the original comment said >>Because God loves us so much to allow us free will

[@pepehaydn7039]

TRUE, but in that case God is the "intellectual" Autor of evil. Logic is logic for all.

[@iam_stephanos]

@@jalapeno.tabasco Does Omniscience and Omnipotence mean God can't see all possible scenarios a human can take regarding whether he will accept God's grace. Or are you saying God only sees one outcome a human can take? Also, are you saying Jesus' death on the cross wasn't for all people and only for the people he wanted to be saved?

[@alberijh]

Muchas gracias por el video. Dios los bendiga, saludos desde Argentina.

[@superdavidss]

I enjoy so much your channel. It's great blessing of knoweledge.

[@disguisedcentennial835]

I’m a Protestant, but I love these videos. I don’t agree with the original sin concept, but I love Thomism’s unification of faith and logic. I’ve been studying Aquinas recently because my friends often speak of him in our Christian circles(we are made up of many different branches, debating and discussing with each other to find the ultimate truths).

[@yalechuk6714]

So how do you account for the fallen state of man?

[@henrybenjaminstoneking238]

You dont agree with it because you believe in "sinning boldly" which is directly contrary to the Teaching of JESUS, "SIN NO MORE" or "Be Perfect" therefore, you are not really a protestant, but a Satanist Thomas Aquinas is somewhat problematic too, as he possibly was a humanist, and not a spiritual man He will not save you Only the Truth of JESUS and the Catholic Church will save you The Fallen nature of mankind is so visible today, as JESUS taught, the return of the 8 demons parable, we are punished severely by HIS COMING and our refusal to follow him means we are more Fallen now, than at any other point before HIS coming We are cursed when we refuse all that HE Did to save us If you do not see how men run to sin instead of GOD when they are in despair, then you are still blind too, and not humble enough to admit it You need to admit you are blind to see, otherwise you are still in your sin, and still blind, and GOD cannot help you grow in power you are choosing sin over GOD like all pagans do You need to convert or give up the pagan bible study, it does nothing for you If you want to sin, then you will keep sinning boldly If you want to be saved then you must admit that sin kills men

[@ryanpatrickjones5147]

VERITAS! Keep these videos coming. Can't wait for the next one.

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Can't stop. Won't stop.

[@abashedsanctimony154]

Gospel of thomas is falsely rewritten, and not Canon. Pre-destination doctrine doesn't disuade an actual believer they are completely responsible for pre-faith regenerated belief and repentance.

[@ferenchortobagyi9704]

@@ThomisticInstitute Is the next one out yet? can't seem to find it or it goes by a different title?

[@arete7884]

When u understand psychology seems clear , predestination is real

[@sillythewanderer4221]

@@abashedsanctimony154 The Thomistic institute has nothing to do with the “gospel of Thomas”

[@maryjohnstone4777]

A wonderful video,puts one straight as well to knowing what our responsibility is towards living the Christian life.thsnks as always.

[@josephzammit8483]

St. John Bosco Guide, Teacher and Model for Priests: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6nRiqdvhpiMqqs

[@jaysonyata1992]

Thank you, it was great.

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Cheers!

[@gualula8641]

God bless you Father 🙏🏽

[@StephenAkers]

An image that runs through my mind thinking about this is one of a GPS. It seems like predestination might in a sense be that every human is destined for God, but is allowed to turn away, or "go off course," but God always provides aid (grace) or "guidance" (e.g. "rerouting") which can help someone to choose him and course-correct. Does this seem like a fair analogy?

[@ThomisticInstitute]

It gives a good indication . . . In effect, grace is intrinsically efficacious but resistible.

[@markjhornbacher8164]

@@ThomisticInstitute If someone resists grace, was the grace they resisted still intrinsically efficacious?

[@ThomisticInstitute]

@@markjhornbacher8164 Mark, this is an excellent question. St. Thomas argued that it is. Others have argued that it is not. The question has not been solemnly defined by the Church so there are, in the Catholic tradition, a variety of legitimate options. Here are two good resources on the question, one from Lawrence Feingold (www.hebrewcatholic.net/09-10-sufficient-and-efficacious-grace) and the other from John Hardon (www.therealpresence.org/archives/Grace/Grace_015.htm).

[@markjhornbacher8164]

@@ThomisticInstitute Thank you! It looks like the Feingold link is not working. But I did a search on the website and found it. Here is the link: www.hebrewcatholic.net/09-10-sufficient-and-efficacious-grace/

[@markjhornbacher8164]

@@ThomisticInstitute Are either or both of these sources representing of the view of St Thomas?

[@RockSmithStudio]

John 15:16 NRSV "You did not choose me but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that will last, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name."

[@peterk.6930]

what does that actually mean? nothing else then I chose you (as disciples)

[@christopherdas2841]

Very well explained!

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Thank you!

[@mcgrathbissaillon2689]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe St. Thomas Aquinas would have some helpful insight on the role angels and demons have in the moving of an individual's will and thus, reception of God's grace. I hope I don't sound radical, but I am trying to recover a devotion to my guardian angel, one that my grandparents clung to ardently throughout their entire lives'. They were devout Catholics. I watched the Thomistic Institute's video on angels and demons, but I think one that dives deeper into prayer and the purpose of one's guardian angel would be beneficial. As always, GO FRIARS!

[@chaldeanking]

Father Rippenger goes in detail about this.

[@kristindreko1998]

Thank you for this video! May our Lord Jesus Christ bless you!

[@marvinpineda8693]

I think it’s a good book to read in-between other novels. It magnifies the a human being like a debate to a disaster never ending. It’s like, holding it up to non believers, saying it’s the disclaimer preface to other fictional material, then wondering why that disclaimer was printed in the first place. - _What else do you know?_

[@nazimdjedaa2829]

Can't wait to hear the answer to how can a man turn away from God and refuse His grace!

[@ThomisticInstitute]

St. Thomas teaches that the grace of God is intrinsically efficacious, but resistible. He speaks of resistibility in terms of posing impediments to the infusion of grace. When speaking of sin, he says this occurs by defect of the agent, defect of the instrument, or indisposition of the matter (See ST Ia Q. 49, a. 1 at aquinas101.thomisticinstitute.org/st-ia-q-49#FPQ49A1THEP1) Regardless of the precise source of inordinate character of the act, it issues in some way from the free person's choice against being from God and for God in the way that God wills. In the end, our lives can only be had as a gift, and every sin is, at root, a rejection of the gratuity of God's self-offering, a choice to incline to self or to incline to God by one's power.

[@nazimdjedaa2829]

@@ThomisticInstitute Many thanks! Could you also expand (in a future video?) about St Thomas' teaching on selective unconditional election and negative reprobation (thinking of ST I,q.23,a.3 and ST I,q.23,a.5)?

[@ThomisticInstitute]

@@nazimdjedaa2829 We don't have plans for this in the current course, but we hope to drill down on a handful of especially difficult topics in coming years. We'll be sure to keep this in mind! Cheers!

[@gusbeau1]

Thank You, dear God for The one Holy Catholic Apostolic Faith. Grant us the grace necessary to “hang on”. God bless your loyal ones.

[@samoinborut1339]

Thank you.

[@dakabaka4912]

WOW! This channel is awesome!

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@juliannevillecorrea]

Thank you !

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Our pleasure!

[@Ransomonious]

I appreciated this.

[@johnyanke7335]

Thanks for the videos. Hard to find stuff not influenced by modernism, especially in big channels like this.

[@mikeschmoll7762]

How can we cooperate with God's grace as sinners if we in our natural state are "dead in our treaspasses and sins" as apostle Paul said.

[@minimalis4601]

Keren nih. Mantap

[@brentonstanfield5198]

As a Calvinist, I really enjoy your videos. My question would go specifically to the point made about God not being the cause of rejection in any way. Since we cannot save ourselves without grace, and since grace is effective and causes us to choose God, then how can we say that God does not “in any way” the cause our rejection? It would seem to me that by creating people, to whom he does not give effective grace, he has “in some way” caused their rejection. An analogy might be this: If a car needs a driver to move, and I make 2 cars, but only drive one... then in some way, the car that doesn’t move is caused by me not to move. We can see that the car that doesn’t move is caused to be stationary by me in a different way than the car that moves is caused by me to be moved... but the condition of both cars (stationary or moving) is caused by me.

[@ThomisticInstitute]

God is the total cause of being, but since sin (and hence condemnation) is a privation, God is not its cause. Properly speaking, it does not have a "per se" or direct cause. The Council of Quirzy (also spelled Quiercy), which condemned the heretical views of Gottschalk in the 9th century, put it this way: "That some men are saved is the gift of the one who saves. That some perish is the fault of those who perish."

[@pepehaydn7039]

You are right in your appreciation, although wrong in your faith. Thomism, in its bañecian interpretation has struggled for centuries to scape the label of “calvinism”. If one assumes a system of ante praevisa merita predestination, God is responsible for the damnation of those non-predestined. We agree that he is not to blame for it, but He is just responsible because in permitting evil, he has decreed it. Calvin was right and honest! Yes, he was! The only predestinatary system that can be rstionally supported is Calvin’s. The Thomist system is a mere theological opinion in the Catholic Church, permitted as an school’s opinion: NO MORE. Conscious catholics tend not to reject predestination in itself, but to consider it an inexcrutsble mystery, rejecting, by the way, all explanations because all of them are problematic. God saves, God wills all men to be saved, Christ died for all men, BUT some men perish. Why? I dont know but predestination is the worsr way possible to explain it.

[@jddeklerk]

Brenton, your question represents hyper Calvinism. Calvinism as expressed in the canons of dort are in line with what was said in this video about predestination. Hyper Calvinism was also expressly rejected by the Synod of Dort.

[@brentonstanfield5198]

@@jddeklerk - How does my question represent hyper-Calvinism?

[@jddeklerk]

@@brentonstanfield5198 Because the question is making God "in some way" responsible for the wicked action of the reprobate (those passed by and not elected by God unto glory WCF 3.6-7). The Westminster Confession says God is not the "author of sin", nor does his decree violate the "will of creatures", and his decree does not take away "the liberty or contingency of second causes" (WCF 3.1). God's decree does include that evil "comes to pass", but the way that it comes to pass is through the will of creatures. Sin is caused by creatures and not by God. That is the Calvinist position. Therefore the Canons of Dort 1.5 say "The CAUSE or blame for this unbelief, as well as for all other sins, IS NOT AT ALL IN GOD, BUT IN MAN."

[@fernandolh6538]

I wonder if there's not a mistake in the English transcription of the subtitles: I think that in 06:15 and following fr. Legge meant:"... God's eternal plan to grant grace to a rational creature..." instead of '...God's eternal plan to grant grace to irrational creature...', which doesn't make much (any!) sense. I'm just posting this in case any non-English speaking reading the English subtitles, just like me, wondered what he meant. Apart from that, thank you the TI for these wonderful videos. God bless!

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Yes, you're right! It should be fixed now. Let us know if you find other errors. Nice work and thank you!

[@joonie8103]

Question: Corinthians 3:16, NIV: "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst ..how can we see this passage when God says God's spirit itself in within you not just grace except is we did say that grace of God is God ? I don't understand it

[@AntCamLola]

We can also interpret Ephesians that we are born of good nature, a clean slate, in the image of God, but can use our free will to do wicked things unless we repent and realign ourselves back to Christ. The church never taught that we are born damaged, in fact Christ tells us all children belong in the kingdom of God. Romans does not state that we inherit Adam sin, we inherit mortality.

[@guavaguy4397]

Would it be wrong to explain it like committing a crime against a person. If the person forgives you he is responsible for your conciousness being lightened. If he doesn't forgive you/you don't try and get it it is your fault?

[@MrLuke255]

If God doesn’t move anyone towards rejecting His grace, what is the cause of one rejecting it? If you say “temptations from the devil”, what is the root cause of them? Why is the devil this way?

[@DonaldFranciszekTusk]

Good point. We know from the Scripture that when temptation arise, there is always enough grace. (Should we think that only catholics get enough grace?)

[@brunochxca321]

Then predestination is a sign for us of the love of God our Lord

[@777theright88]

How does this differ from Molinism?

[@soupeverywhere9565]

Molina did pull a lot from Aquinas. He was well known for his commentaries on the Summa.

[@riley.p.p]

This is like the BibleProject but for Catholic Philosophy

[@allanlangat2813]

I was trying to figure out why I like the two. Intrinsically they have the same methodology and their subject is God and mans contemplation of Him as he seeks to explain the world around him and strive to reach the ‘Beatitudal ‘ Love .

[@toriomain]

I was thinking the same thing!

[@benaim7925]

I like the aesthetics.

[@themotivator2587]

I really need to hear another take on Aquinas. Dr. William Marshner presents Thomism in such a way that God is portrayed as a neglectful parent to those who do not attain eternal salvation. Is this really Thomism? Or is Marshner not accurately presenting Thomism?

[@SKyrim190]

So...let me see if I understand this correctly...St. Thomas of Aquinas idea of predestination is closer to what the Church recently teaches in the idea of "universal call to sainthood"? Because God calls all of us to be saints, and He provides the necessary means for us to attain that sainthood, in this way He has "predestined" us to be saints with Him in Heaven, but when we come short of that calling it is not by God's predestination, because He will never be the cause of sin or imperfection. Did I got that right?

[@nomnombr]

I think so!

[@JeremyLewisHoff]

Could someone kindly tell me whether I have correctly understood the key differience with how Aquinas understands the resistabillity of grace, contra Augustine? Augustine sees all grace as intrinsically efficacious (or irresistible), since the creaturely will has nothingness as its only independent source. Therefore the only thing that distingishes sufficient grace from efficient grace is the strength of the impulse from God. Aquinas, however, makes a real distinction between the nature of sufficient grace versus intrinsically effectual grace, since, following Aristotle, the creaturely will is actually informed by being, as opposed to the platonic notion that the creature is devoid of the actual substance of being. This means that sufficient grace must be cooperated with by the will (which has actually been informed by grace) in order for it to go from potency to act, thus grounding the responsibillity of the will to act. Augustine, on the other hand, places all the responsibility to act with the will of God alone. Have I understood this correctly?

[@joaop.r.4129]

I know thomists differ antecedent will and consequent will, in talking about God’s universal salvific will. I ask: is it authoritative teaching of the Church or any kind of authoritative teaching (theologian consensus, maybe) that there is a will in God that all and each man to be saved?

[@nomnombr]

There is a teaching similar to that: "universal call to sainthood"

[@nownzoberstone9378]

So if I don't do what god wants of me? what would that be?

[@p00tis]

So no, but actually yes.

[@JesusLiftedMySins]

I’m a Lutheran in theology but I love learning from you Catholics and there are so many things I admire about your tradition! How would a catholic understand Romans 9 with the verses about vessels of honor and dishonor?

[@loremipsum2989]

Please consult the excellent book of Charles Journet "The Meaning of Grace" from 1959, in English for example from 1997, Part One, 3. Speech "The Predestination" , Chapters 8-10. Greetings from Germany!

[@alphazero5614]

A potter has the freedom to shape vessels to any use he wills and to use that vessel so shaped to perform whatever service he wills it is necessary to perform, from simple household use like storage containers, to personal use, to use in a formal banquet. In the same way God as the Creator has the freedom to shape people or nations in anyway He pleases in order to serve whatever function or to play whatever role He intends to be played out the stage of human history. The potter's vessel cannot see the necessity of its shape in relation to its function anymore than Israel as a covenant people, or each of us, for that matter, can ultimate understand God's divine plan. But like the useful vessel we have no right to complain to the potter [God] about the shape or usefulness He has assigned to us. God is not accountable to us, we are accountable to Him.

[@JesusLiftedMySins]

@@alphazero5614 real

[@AntCamLola]

There is a lot of evidence that Augustine’s thinking were influenced by Pelagius, he infuriated him and chased him to the extremes

[@realcosmicmystic]

Do we have libertarian free will according to Aqunias? In other words if everything was the same in our brain and all circumstances being equal, could we have chose otherwise after the fact?

[@matt8637]

From what I see, it seems that the Catholic church at least teaches that the will was weakened by sin, though not extinguished (language is from Trent, Session 6). They want to maintain something that looks like libertarian free will, as they are likely trying not to sound Calvinist. However, the statements in the Second Council of Orange concerning the will hardly seem libertarian. "Free will" seems to be a phrase that Catholic teaching has committed to since the early centuries, so now that have to accommodate it, even though they know the will has been corrupted by sin. Their teachings have "choice" to come before the regenerating actions of God grace. However, may we all stay prayerful, praying for understanding a good/charitable motive in our understanding of these matters.

[@rustyshackelford3590]

How is this different from the Calvinist predestination?

[@T_frog1]

Rusty Shackelford I think "predestination" is the wrong word to use. God knows what's going to happen but doesn't decide it, so that's not the same as Calvinism

[@rustyshackelford3590]

Trevor G Scott I heard about this. Calvinism and some of what Thomas Aquinis said was what is called double predestination. But the single predestination or common belief of predestination is that God knows everything that will happen but he doesn’t pick who goes to hell before they are born.

[@oracleoftroy]

​@@T_frog1 I get how that might make sense if God was just a passive observer of some other god's creation and decided to get involved. But how does that work if God is the creator and sustainer of everything? Knowing the consequences of taking an action and then freely taking the action anyway helps establish intent.

[@byron8657]

Amongst the Apostles St Paul is the one who suffered the most when he was preaching in Asia Minor Greek cities and Rome! He used his intellect and Will power in the full service to spread the Goodnews of our Salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ! He was a Pharisee before member of the Sanhedrin its like the Court of Law during that time very well verse with the Torah and the Old Testament he is brave and zealous! And these qualities were used by our Good Lord Jesus Christ when he was blinded temporarily by a bright light vision of the Power of Redeeming Grace from God! Hes life was turned upside down 360 degrees upon his conversion to Christian faith! Amazing Grace how sweet thy sound The Saviour saves a wrecked like me i once was lost but now im found was blind but now i see! K

[@lovejesuschrist3063]

Interesting. Is pre-destination completely fixed? Given that Our Lady of Fatima said that many souls go to Hell because they have no one to pray for them, doesn't this suggest that our final destination not only depends on our own free will, but on other people's free will too (if, in their charity, they agree to pray for us)? So if others have a say in our destination, does this mean our fate is not necessarily set in stone?

[@lovejesuschrist3063]

@Catalina Silos Thanks Catalina.

[@JJCollinsSouthwest]

~4:45 why is it not possible or in man's nature to be friends w/ God? Is not man inherently interrelational? To quickly state these things are 'above us' needs to be explored further. It does not seem to me that supernatural powers are required to have a relationship with God.

[@reformedcatholic457]

I was watching a Thomist discuss theology and he mentioned Calvin and it seems like they view Calvin very highly that he called Calvin a Saint, which was very surprising to me. I find these videos very interesting as Aquinas drew a lot from Augustine as did both Luther and Calvin.

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Hmm . . . interesting. I don't think that a Catholic Thomist would ordinarily refer to Calvin as a saint. Do you know who the speaker was?

[@reformedcatholic457]

@@ThomisticInstitute Dr.Taylor O'Neill.

[@ThomisticInstitute]

@@reformedcatholic457 Can you point to the place in which he does?

[@reformedcatholic457]

@@ThomisticInstitute Sure. Here is the link he says it between 6:30-6:34 m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXeqkmRjrLekfKc

[@grasshopper801]

There's such a thing as Protestant Thomism. It exists as the main alternative to presuppositionalism in the various Reformed sects, and is also somewhat popular among Lutherans.

[@DiamondSplendid-yy7dg]

I have question, Jesus died on the cross in full obedience and walked with God... so if he was predestined to do all these things does that mean it all comes to the will of the person. Your able to have free will but obedience to the plan of God is necessary as well because you would be like a robot if you didn't walk the path God wanted you to be in. Right? Can anyone elaborate and explain a little more to me

[@alphazero5614]

God predestines the salvation of some, that predestination is based on His infallible foreknowledge of how individuals would freely respond to grace through their own will. We are not automatons but possess libertarian freedom. Jesus perfectly obeyed the Father out of his own free choice of divine filial love. His will was in no way compelled, but united with God's in shared love. I do not understand precisely what you mean by, "...but obedience to the plan of God is necessary as well because you would be like a robot if you didn't walk the path God wanted you to be in." We cooperate with God whose predestination respects our capacity for real moral choices.

[@danielwatts796]

Question here, does he cause our acceptance of salvation? I was chatting with a calvinist who believes that God makes people accept their salvation. The elect have no choice but to accept their salvation

[@danielwatts796]

Would appreciate some further reading on this idea, I find the calvinist idea of salvation troubling

[@josephmariaotf]

@@danielwatts796 Of course it is troubling: It's a 16th century heresy from a Frenchman called John that states the loving mighty just God creates people with no true freewill just to be lost in Hell; that the whole world should preach that Jesus did not die for the whole world.

[@aidanmays7825]

If it is our our Nature which causes is to sin how could you say that God has not predestined our sin when both our Nature and our Soul are of God's careful creation

[@9mmaster538]

God did not predestine all unto life, those that He did predestine, will in fact cooperate with that Grace, it is an absolute certainty. Only when God makes you able will you cooperate. The Spirit makes you willing. Once you are made willing, you still make a choice, that is, you exercise your free will. This is how God's sovereignty in salvation and mans free will are in unison. But do not be mistaken, it is God, who from first to last, is the Captain of your salvation. If you believe in Jesus unto salvation it's simply because of God's mercy in choosing, redeeming, calling, justifying, sanctifying and preserving you unto glory! To God alone goes all the praise!

[@DangerLinds]

But doesn't Baptism wash away original sin? Why are we still, then, prone to sin?

[@krzysztofciuba271]

be careful on the meaning of baptism- I see you repeat just your local Pastor. Original sin is an expression totally different from a (personal) sin. K.Rahner rightly showed the term just points to the necessary source to the beginning of evil on which the next generation had not an influence but are just born in such area of sinfulness not caused by themselves. It is a right pure logic like in mathematics; The book of Genesis is just a story and not history. These lazy bumps, pastors do not know it; I do not know why

[@haydongonzalez-dyer2727]

Awesome

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Thank you! May the Lord bless you!

[@jrgames29]

So had there been no fall, you would still need Christ to bestow grace onto creation (i.e. the gift of eternal life)?

[@jodibarrick2152]

If Adam had not have sinned in the garden he would have lived in the garden forever; sin is what brought death. Is this right?

[@TheNYCGoldenGlover]

I am a devout believer in the only Salvation being one that comes from the Lord and have always seen the inherent danger in Pelagianism, that said the same question has stayed with me since my years as an altar boy, about three decades ago. There are genuinely decent and kind people who were not brought up Catholic. There are genuinely decent people before Christ and Church dogma. In addition to a few hundred more variations ranging from my beloved Grandmother who was never much for church and whom loved a stiff drink or two or six to my father, not a Catholic and a rather terrible person but in my humble opinion not terrible enough for eternal damnation, etc, to my dear agnostic friend whom thinks the Faith is inane but would sacrifice selflessly for anyone I have received several dozen clergy and philosophers, but have never been satistifed. I think to think that our prayers for them and devotion can lead to Salvation. In fact, as much of a hot head as I can be, I genuinely do not hate anyone and certainly do not wish damnation on a single soul alive now or long dead. I am enjoying your channel very much and during these trying times when even the Church itself is seemingly rudderless and in turmoil, having a place to turn is very comforting. God Bless

[@kevfreeman5482]

We see through a glass darkly and only God knows the end from the beginning! I put my assurance in this - God sees hearts! God knows hearts!

[@TheNYCGoldenGlover]

@@kevfreeman5482 i like to believe this as well but it does go contrarian to Church doctrine.

[@nicholasdavis2777]

Wait I thought that Catholics didnt beleive in predestination? Would this make you close to a calvinist?

[@nomnombr]

Calvin believes in Double Predestination

[@oracleoftroy]

Everyone who cares a smigion about what the Bible says affirms predestination because scripture talks about it. There are a few different ways people explain it, though Calvin in particular was very keen to show that his ideas were not new and would point to scripture and the fathers and theologians throughout church history to show precursors to his systematic. He borrowed heavily from Aquinas and Augustine in his doctrine of predestination. The other commenter is correct that he affirmed "double" predestination, but I suspect he incorrectly thinks it means equal ultimacy, which pretty much everyone rejects as error.

[@Elwood_McCable]

Let there be no confusion: God can discriminate between those worthy of salvation. But God alone can do this. For any person to declare themself or any other elect among all others, more deserving of our Lord's light than any other, is heresy and counter to the message of Jesus Christ. God alone, is judge. Who along us can declare than some are saved, others not? Jesus told us that God's kingdom is ready for ANY who would be saved.

[@BlackAngusReviews]

God Created all and knows all. God is a mysterious being with three persons, father son and spirit. Jesus Is present as the trinity before creation. If sin exists, than how is it not created by God? He created satan who introduced sin, with god knowing that turn beforehand.He created us knwoing we would fall, so how is this not an elaborate cruel game where we don't really have a choice? I ask this trying to truly reconcile all of these established points in the plot. Can you please explain

[@eduardoschiavon5652]

Amazing videos! Would it be possible for you guys to do some videos on a (summarized) Catholic view of Salvation through the eyes of Thomism?

[@ThomisticInstitute]

Stay tuned for our videos on Christology and sacraments!

[@mattmessuh]

In what ways (if any) does Thomas see this in relation to providence? In SCG he says that God in some sense wills evil (and everything), and if I remember correctly, it was due to God’s knowledge and will being one. I’ll try to find the exact reference when I get home, but I would guess you probably have some insight even without it.

[@krzysztofciuba271]

God wills evil? Check it. In OT there are some of these types of expressions (typical for Semitic mind contra Greek). Evil(and sin) is the privation of good (and being); therefore, there is no causal relation between being (god) and the lack of being/good, called evil.

[@mattmessuh]

That’s fine, but it would be God’s will for the person/thing to lack the perfection. If a person commits a murder, it was God’s will that the person committed the murder. Whether you believe that’s a privation, corruption, transgression, etc., the act itself (which has a privation) was willed by God.

[@krzysztofciuba271]

@@mattmessuh ? you (and God) cannot will that is not existent (privation)."it was God’s will that the person committed the murder"?.i.e. God caused or forced him to make an evil action? Don't be silly.God foresaw it (as in God there is "tomorrow", but only "now") but not cause it. The probability laws and statistics of some events do not cause or force these events to happen.

[@mattmessuh]

@@krzysztofciuba271 It seems you’re unfamiliar with Thomistic metaphysics, specifically in relation to theology proper. You’re trying to put a real distinction between God’s knowledge and His will, but Thomas does not allow for that.

[@krzysztofciuba271]

@@mattmessuh u are talking about yourself if you claim "God wills a person committed a murder".Sorry, don't waste my time anymore

[@d.o.7784]

In simple words, can you tell me the REAL LIFE application of “saved by grace” vs “saved by faith and/or work”? If Pelagianism is wrong, then we you back to “saved by faith alone” not by work, since work, and i mean good work, is not gonna take us anywhere ?

[@fnsdjkovnsdkvn]

What was condemned at the council of Trent was "those who by 'faith alone' mean mere mental assent" iirc. I.e., the whole "i think jesus is God so ill go to heaven" type. A recent pope (i think either JP2 or benedict) pointed out Catholics can assent to "faith alone" if what is meant (as some protestants point out) is faith as in *faithful*ness. This fact was the centerpiece of the joint proclamation on salvation the Catholic church signed along with Lutherans and some others. All said the issue with "faith alone" is you can take it one of two ways. A very bad, antinomian way, and a more reasonable way better stated in other language. "Saved by grace" also emphasizes we receive something now - grace - which empowers us to do God's will to some extent in this life. Some, but not all, Protestants that assert "faith alone" at least seem to forget that fact, even when they do claim the more reasonable understanding of "faith alone".

[@chaldeanking]

🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@deusimperator]

Let's put this in very easy terms ... How do you know you are predestined? You are a member of the Catholic Church in good standing (ie having sanctifying grace). As a Catholic you belong to the Church which is predestined for heaven. Since no one is predestined to hell, it is possible for the electe to pray the non-predestined into heaven. In fact, G-d does want the prayers of the elect so that He can act on their behalf. The Jewish people believed that it was their praying of the siddur (Jewish Divine Office consisting of the Tehillim) was what provided the graces necessary for Gentiles to be saved. Why would not the prayers of the monks etc praying the liturgy of the hours have the same effect today? G-d is consistent always ... so why would this not be the case?

[@Brillemeister]

My understanding of the Catholic concept of predestination (which I admit I'm not totally sure of), per reading the Summa, is that one is either predestined and will go to Heaven, or non-predestined and won't go to Heaven, with no third option. In the scenario you described of people going to Heaven with the aid of the prayers of the elect, per the previously described view of predestination, said recipients of these prayers would themselves be members of the elect as evidenced by their entrance into Heaven. Please, someone correct me if I've misinterpreted anything.

[@TonyOmila7x]

AMEN.

[@keithduff9344]

Predestination for the Elect just means that God chose them before satan's katebole (foundation), or satan's overthrow or rebellion. We all have free will to follow our Father, or not.

[@blackpearl1218]

As someone who isn’t a catholic but really appreciates their works. I find that the idea of heresy is a massive hindrance to understanding. Speaks to an over all crisis Christian’s are facing as whole

[@djg585]

It is certainly true that man can not by natural means lift himself out of sin into friendship with God. Yet in a mysterious way Jesus used the natural means of His own suffering and death to effect our salvation. Jesus infused this natural means with Divine love, rather than resorting to a miracle to save us.

[@matt8637]

From what I see, it seems that the Catholic church at least teaches that the will was weakened by sin, though not extinguished (language is from Trent, Session 6). They want to maintain something that looks like libertarian free will, as they are likely trying not to sound Calvinist. However, the statements in the Second Council of Orange concerning the will hardly seem libertarian. "Free will" seems to be a phrase that Catholic teaching has committed to since the early centuries, so now that have to accommodate it, even though they know the will has been corrupted by sin. Their teachings have "choice" to come before the regenerating actions of God grace. However, may we all stay prayerful, praying for understanding a good, pure and charitable motive in our understanding of these matters.

[@joeytavez7055]

My boi smart as a whip

[@Hn-zu1qu]

I'm not certain if Pelagians have a modern equivalent. While their doctrine is false, they truly led exceedingly righteous lives. I wouldn't say the same of modern hedonists

[@zachm.6572]

I can’t help but feel that this isn’t a full treatment of St. Thomas’ view. I remember reading Thomas as saying that God, in His providence, has determined that there being a number of the damned is a good higher than for all to be saved, thus the damned exist by God’s will to show off His full attributes. I must admit that this doctrine has me on the edge of despair since the traditional Catholic teaching is that one can be regenerate and partaking of grace in the sacraments, but not be elect causing one to fall before death because of God’s will.

[@theunnoticable6780]

I am 2 years late but I did find this quote to be even more worrying: "Even if by a special privilege their predestination were revealed to some, it is not fitting that it should be revealed to everyone; because, if so, those who were not predestined would despair; and security would beget negligence in the predestined." - Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, Part I, Question 23, Article 1.

[@T_frog1]

So we believe that God knows who's going to heaven but doesn't decide it. That's not really "predestination", as most people know it. I think that's the wrong word to use

[@jaymccreery6713]

predestination is Gods plan if a world was ever to fall to sin .a plan that was made long before any world fell the plan of redemption so you are predestined to be saved but freewill means many will choose there own way not obey christs words and there choice will be honoured with eternal death

[@riptorn3591]

If God works within us to be saved, He alone chose to save us, which He knew He would do before He created us because He’s not learning anything new. That’s the same a Calvinistic understanding of predestination. Just adding language to dress it up Catholic. Augustine and Aquinas were more Calvinistic in predestination than Catholics today.

[@Mkvine]

Except Calvin rejected free will while Augustine and Aquinas maintained it.

[@oracleoftroy]

​@@Mkvine Weird that they reject it when all their confessions affirm free will. Are you sure you aren't confusing certain libertarian philosophies of free will that set man's will as completely autonomous from God with the notion of free will itself? Those ideas are certainly incompatible with God as creator and sustainer of everything, but Calvinists have always affirmed that God establishes our human free will and the liberty and contingency of second causes by what he ordains per WCF 3.1.

[@Lili-Benovent]

Predestination- The very notion that an omniscient (all knowing) God who knows everything including the thoughts and motives, noble and ulterior, of every human being that has ever, or will ever be born means that everything must be predestined by him. He knows before you are born everything that will happen to you and whether you will be a fit person to live in his fantasy land in the sky after your death. If he can look into the future what is the purpose of a judgment at some later stage, why would he judge us if he knows everything beforehand, is it so the godly can gloat over being smarter than the rest of us because they passed some test? If the punishment for not following his multitude of rules is that we suffer being burned forever then why not consign us to that destination immediately upon our demise, why the judgment process? In fact, if this all knowing presence knows the outcome of our fate before we are born then why permit us to be born at all? He only wants the pure of heart to live in his Heaven, that seems to be his ultimate goal, so instead of allowing us to live a life of temptation and sin (which offends him) why doesn't he look into the future of each of his creations and select the good from the bad before they complete their lives of sin, which he must already know about if he is truly omniscient? This is just one small area of question about the personality of this so called God, there are thousands of other parts of his attitude towards humankind which should be examined in detail. If he created us just so he could allow us to be tortured for eternity then he is sadly deficient in the sense of justice that he has supposedly imprinted on the minds of most human beings. SOME GOD.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do. Consider what the Bible teaches. God created humans in his image. (Genesis 1:26) Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will. To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”-Isaiah 48:18. Our success or failure is not determined by fate. If we want to succeed at an endeavor, we must work hard. “All that your hand finds to do,” says the Bible, “do with your very power.”(Ecclesiastes 9:10) It also says: “The plans of the diligent one surely make for advantage.”-Proverbs 21:5. Free will is a precious gift from God, for it lets us love him with our “whole heart”-because we want to.-Matthew 22:37. Doesn’t God control all things? The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14) Similarly, for now, he chooses to tolerate those who misuse their free will to harm others. But God will not do so indefinitely.-Psalm 37:10, 11.

[@josephcamm9374]

How do i know if God has predestined me for salvation?

[@J.A000]

Everyone is predestined to the necessary grace for your salvation. But you can refuse it and, instead, choose your sins.

[@sensational_cellar8606]

Hasn’t Popw Francis said non-Christians can be saved? Eg. members of other religions.

[@user-7lf7w]

How can protestant listen to this and say we are believing in work based salvation 😕

[@mariabrar6290]

Nadri Nadr Nihal

[@jpmvidal]

6:15 Your conclusion that "God does not predestine us to evil" appears to be a fallacy when you affirm that human nature is sinful and that "God is the author of our human nature."

[@Mkvine]

The fallacy seems to be on your end. God did not create human nature evil, it became evil because of human free will.

[@93556108]

I agree to a certain portion ofthis video presentation but I respectfully disagree to your interpretation of Ephesians 1:3, 4 as this verse in its historical context doesn't teach about soteriology. I beg to differ from your interpretation of Eph1 verse 3- 4, in its historical and immediate context, the word personal pronoun plural "us" refers to Paul and the apostles, instead of us as a believer in Christ, as the apostles chosen by Jesus to serve his ministry from the foundation of the world (John15:16). From verse 5 to 12 the "us" and "we" are alson the apostles too. But in this verse 13 there is a change of personal pronoun to "you" meaning the Gentiles ; "Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, " also alluding to Eph2:11-13 the uncircumcision and Eph3:5-6 the mystery. Any comments please. Thank you.

[@estebanpayan7296]

I don't understand. From what I understand of the Summa question 23, it's clear to me God picks winners and losers. What's the point of any of this if I cannot at least reach out to Jesus for the salvation only he can give?

[@MattisWell.20]

“THE PROBLEM OF THE HUMAN WILL is not that of wills that are free but must somehow be persuaded to choose God and the good. Rather, the problem is that of the human will bound in darkness and the fear of death - until the love of God penetrates and sets it free. Freedom of will is not the ability to choose between good and evil, based on nothing inherent in the chooser. Otherwise, there would be nothing to differentiate the exercise of the will from random events. Rather, freedom of will is the ability to act according to one’s true inherent nature. The true and inherent nature of humans is that of persons created in the image of God and to be like God. Being thus created, our true and inherent will is to seek God and the good - that is when the will is competent. A will that is competent is one that is fully developed, fully informed, and not beset by hindering factors. But where one is not mature, or has been deceived, or is bound, we cannot say that their will is free. So, for example, Lord Jesus said that whoever sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34). One who is a slave to sin does not have free will, for their will is in bondage, and not able to act according to their inherent nature. For another example, from the cross, Lord Jesus prayed for those who were crucifying him (which would include us all), “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” Their will was not free because it was not fully informed. In the case of Adam and Eve in the garden, their will was not competent because they were deceived, bound by the deception of the devil. St. Irenaeus of Lyon, one of the Church Fathers from the 2nd century, taught that Adam and Eve were deceived because they were not yet mature. God’s plan of salvation, enacted through Christ, does not require that God ignore, override, or otherwise cancel out the free will of anyone. Quite the opposite, Christ has come to set free our human will, so that we may act according to our true nature as persons created to bear the image of God and to be like God.” ~ Jeff Doles

[@duelz9366]

How do you know you have the correct interpretation of the Bible?

[@J.R2023]

Because it was shared by the apostles succesors, not like the gringo movement protestantism is today.

[@Christian.Portugues.Francisco]

Reading Eph and then give your Philos. interpretation based on a tradition is not truthful. You should go into the text and get the meaning from its original author and intention (ultimatly all scirptures is brathed out by God, but the meens by which he gave the scirptures are men 2 Tim 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:20-21) The scirptures also says that the human is not weekend by sin, but that he is fallen and death and a slave of sin, an rebell against God, unable to do good and that no one does it and unable to come to him (John 8:31ff Joh 6:44 and Rom 3:10-18) Salvation is alone from the Lord by Grace to Faith and not of Works like Eph 2:8-9 for the Elect of God, which he predestend before the fundation of the world to salvation by his own Choice of free grace and love! May God give you Grace and save you! Read the Bible Sir

[@anthonybardsley4985]

I could more save myself be any of my own .than I could pick myself up by my boot straps .

[@johnscotto2434]

I am a practicing Roman Catholic. I would like an answer to this ....and I have struggled with this. 1. God is Omniscient.....ALL KNOWING 2. God is Omnipotent.... ALL POWERFUL God knows all the hairs on my head, i forget the passage in the Bible. He knows if i am going to Heaven or Hell....All Knowing I cant buck this because He is All Powerful, right. Im not trying to be a smart ass, but this seems to be a stacked deck. I know , we hear that we have free will......but how can you have free will against an all knowing and all powerful. God??? I sound like a heretic I guess. How can i live for 100 years , commit a Mortal Sin (just saying) and be sentenced for eternity to HELL...... It seem like getting a J-walking ticket and getting a Death Sentence. I would really like some help with this.... God forgive me for posting this

[@carlosc619]

Is not only “committing” a sin is where your hear are when you die. God is love and want you to be saved, do you want to be saved?

[@aisthpaoitht]

So can one mortally sin accidentally? That is, can one mortally sin if one does not intend to sever the relationship with God?

[@helpmaboabb]

I don't know this...did Aquinas ever address the question of why man had to be created in order to have a destiny in the first place?

[@fredgillespie5855]

I would suggest that you have the wrong idea about Pelagius' teaching. Pelagius came from the British church which was quite different and separate from the Roman Church. The Roman church was teaching - "by grace alone," that is that since man is a sinner by nature there was no point in trying to be good. Paul addresses this problem when he asks - "shall we then continue in sin that grace may abound? Romans ch.6:2. Pelagius saw this problem in Rome and emphasised that the individual had to play his part and strive for righteousness but that the grace of God would cover his failings. If the individual simply gave into sin and made no effort to overcome sin, as many were doing, then his sins were not covered by grace - he remained in his sins.