Preventing Tip Burn: Hydroponic Lettuce (Indoor LED Grow Light) PPFD Experiment

[@Albopepper]

*Watch PART 2* of this series covering Light Duration: ► Light Cycles & DLI: kzbin.info/www/bejne/moLPgH1nr9uihqs _Check out my other reviews:_ *"1000" LED Grow Lights Shootout pt 1:* kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWfRaYmei6x-ers *"1000" LED Grow Lights Shootout pt 2:* kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZ7NgIawiKtgfqs *Spider Farmer SF300 / SF600:* kzbin.info/www/bejne/iInFg2CemL2Yh5Y *Active Grow LoPro Max 320W:* kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnTElqaflLJoerM *Maxsisun MG3000:* kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqiZXqponN6VndE This UPS power station can backup a grow light! ► kzbin.info/www/bejne/nmTWhoh-eKqkmNU Check out my *Grow Light Cost Calculator:* kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4XSipuvhb-AjNU _Learn more about artificial lighting and plant growth:_ ► What is PAR vs ePAR Light? kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYbTdoRqoLpkapo ► The impact of Red or Blue light on plant growth: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZfMmXhqftp5q7c ► To avoid Tip Burn: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXm6l2d-m85mnqM

[@mr702s]

Finally! One of the first gardening youtubers I've ever seen to reference an academic research paper.

[@SeamusHarper1234]

That's one of the comments where I whish I could upvote multiple times, so instead have a cookie 🍪

[@KENNETHFRANCISRODRIGUES]

This is one of the best channels for indoor gardening. I was impressed by the technical data on lighting. Saved me a lot of money as I do not have to redo the tests. This practical research of high academic value!

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for watching Kenneth. I really appreciate it!

[@o0Avalon0o]

I never knew this was so complicated, but I love learning about it anyway

[@elmerkilred159]

I just started using indoor lights (this year) for my starts because the price-point came down for LED lamps, and Sansi has the E-26 socket bulb, so I don't have to invest money into some sort of pricey fixture. The Sansi 15w Full spectrum lights are pretty nice to use... Thank you for reviewing this brand, it's one of the reasons I purchased them. One of the things that I have found that using these lights are that a lot of my cactus and succulent plants that are in the proximity of the lights are all growing/turning/bending toward that light source. Since I grow on old recycled plate glass shelves, the light that penetrates the shelf onto the cactus and succulents below are actually stimulating growth in the plants. (about a distance of 42" to 48"). This is pretty impressive because the shelves are 1/2" plate glass. There is a refraction element going on that probably dims down a UV spectrum/or IR spectrum. Anyway, thank you again for your review.

[@a12vguru]

I'm a NEWBIE an I have setup a small grow table 5' x 3'. My lettuce has tip burn and a different kind grew super tall. now I can start figuring out which cause and effect i'm having. THANK YOU!!!!!!

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for watching! I hope the info was able to help. As you get the kinks worked out, I hope you have some great results! :D

[@randomjohn]

This is the video that keeps on giving. Just had my first case of inner tip burn with some Baby Butterhead lettuce. I think I've had my light source too close on all of my lettuce, I'm going to bump up the height a few inches. I just got a 30W full spectrum Sansi for my dwarf determinate tomato plant, they certainly pump out some serious light.

[@Mr91495osh]

I use 12 on and 12 off. I use two twenty watt colored LEDs AND one 50 watt white CFL at 10 inches with a computer fan for circulation and I am getting leaf burn! Great info! Thank you,

[@hye2271]

Your speaking sound is easy to understand. English is not my first language.. but your channel is so helpful to me. thank you so much.

[@Albopepper]

Thank-you very much my friend! And welcome to my channel!!! :-D

[@Pamlg]

thank you for this. I have not been able to grow lettuce without inner tip burn. I thought I needed to keep them closer to the lights. Most videos say it'd due to calcium deficiency but don't explain it the way you have in this video as it relates to the lights. I'll come back and update in a couple month once the next batch is ready...with no tip burn I hope 🤞

[@Albopepper]

Glad this info was able to help. I hope you get good results!

[@inkpen9547]

How thoughtful to share your expirement. Saving us all the time and wonder. I truly appreciate this work 👍

[@jeffsullivan3362]

I have a lettuce experiment of my own going on right now. I have 5 week old lettuce from seed growing in 2 different systems, 1 aquaponic, the other hydroponic w/ air stones. I've attempted to keep everything the same (except nutrients of course) using regular HO T-5 fixtures at the same height. The hydroponic lettuce shows inner and outer tip burn while the aquaponic lettuce seems fine and actually a little better growth. Only other difference is water temperature and occasional ph fluctuation in the aquaponics. Just wanted to add this info to your findings. I raised the lights.

[@jeffsullivan3362]

There is about a 20 degree difference in water temp with the aquaponics being around 80.

[@Familytripyoutube]

Great video!! The art of a good teacher: speaking simple about something not so simple. ;-)

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for watching and for sharing your positive feedback! xD

[@NiMareQ]

Incredible this is already 5 years old. How did I stumble upon this only now?

[@waynecribbs8853]

Great video! I enjoy your plant experiments and dedication to finding the best combination of environmental factors. Keep up the good work!

[@robertovelazquez6366]

Thanks for this video, very useful. I love that you always try to explain the concepts with experiments.

[@JebGardener]

Really good info. I think temp is the bigger cause compared to light. I'm trying to think how to properly isolate heat though. Maybe a glass separator or something?

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for watching Jeb! I had often suspected temperature as a possible cause as well. But these 15w LEDs throw virtually no heat. It all gets drawn through the ceramic heat sink above the diodes. After running the 2nd test, I was able to really see the significance of excess light intensity. The lettuce stayed low and compact. So there was plenty of distance from the LED for heat dissipation, but it still suffered tip burn.

[@derekstaroba]

AlboPepper - Drought Proof Urban Gardening i put a 9w led on a plant overnite last night and found a couple leaves were just very slightly wilted and the very tip (nearly unnoticeable). My guess is a fan would help but i may have gave it too much nutrients. I didnt notice any overnight growth though. This is the first i tried this. I was thinking that maybe these plants should not be getting constant light and need to rest like us

[@carolinehonse35]

Jeb, I love your videos but you scare my 3 Dachshunds. They bark and hide under a blanket when you make those weird faces.

[@Mr91495osh]

Jeb Gardener what’s your opinion on fish oil

[@WatchinLeague]

@@Albopepper Super late but red light causes stretching and white/blue spectrums reduce stretching.

[@NiMareQ]

At 6:50 you say you switched to full spectrum white. What color temperature would be optimal? Would e.g. 3800K have more "red" light in it than 5600K?

[@Albopepper]

I've used 5000K and it worked fine. Even down 3200K should be ok. It depends on the plant type. If you're talking specifically about lettuce, having a little Far Red has been shown to boost growth. But extra blue / UV can help with pigment production in red lettuce. So I try to get a broad spectrum. Many devoted LED grow light with use 4 different colors.

[@Topsrite]

An oldie, but truly good information, thanks

[@C3Voyage]

Very good video AP. Enjoyed the testing and results!

[@Albopepper]

Thanks Brent! I greatly appreciate it. :-D

[@TheNorthwestForager]

It's very interesting just how fine tuned LED's have to be for growing properly. They seem to have a very strong focal point.

[@Albopepper]

Yes, I agree totally. This particular form factor has a very narrow beam. I've tested other models from other companies and some of them are even more focused. The SANSI ones have a slightly better spread. But still, they seem best suited for a single plant.

[@TheNorthwestForager]

I wonder if a lens or diffusor of some sort would help remedy this problem?

[@jeffsullivan3362]

Thank you. I've been growing lettuce successfully in my basement aquaponics system but lately I noticed as I let it grow longer and taller it's been getting tip burn. Obviously just the fact it's getting closer to the light. Might add a fan too. I'm using 4 ft florescent lights.

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for watching Jeff!

[@GrowingAnswers]

Great job! This answer thoughts I had about previous and future experiments of my own. I also have an outline for future videos of my own that will be touching on the subject of lighting as well. I’ve also done a similar experiment with red/blue lighting and found similar results in growth as expected. I can always count on your videos to take it a step further. Thanks for an excellent job!

[@Albopepper]

Thank-you very much Ryan! I appreciate all of your support. Tests likes these are so fun! xD

[@GrowingAnswers]

I have just done a review for these lights in which I referenced and linked this video.

[@laurence345]

Nice tash bro you look like Luigi👍👍

[@yvanchartrand]

Thank you so much once again for another great video, this is very generous of you to share your findings with us.

[@Albopepper]

Thank-you Yvan! I appreciate your support. :-D

[@yvanchartrand]

What EC is a good target? I am growing indoor under T5 at 17celcius, I have read from 1.2 to 2.3EC, is that too high? Also do you keep the same solution during the whole growing period or do you change it every two weeks? Thanks in advance.

[@PlasmaBurns]

This video explains another reason why you would want a dimmer on your LED light system - to help deal with tip burn.

[@Albopepper]

That would be an excellent solution!

[@genesmith8781]

Great video packed with useful information. Thanks for sharing your experiments and the results.

[@pfrischknecht]

Great video man... Good stuff. Seems like we need some experimentation with this phenomenon... I found it really interesting that in the wrong spectrum combination, the plants just grew right up to the light. That could have interesting applications. (Niche)

[@Albopepper]

Hi Peter, thanks for watching! Yes, I was honestly quite shocked to see how the lettuce responded under the Red/Blue LEDs. It makes me wonder how much testing these products get during their R&D phase. Of course, in blooming applications as a supplemental light source, they may work really great.

[@Flintsmooth]

I have 2 types of leaf lettuce, one has outer tip burn but is growing big and fast, the other has no tip burn but is slow as molasses, it's 2 inches high after 3 months! I am using white LEDs, 4000k and 5000k. (colored LEDs are fad bullshit!) I don't know the PAR values but the LUX reading is around 50,000. Last year I had no trouble but I had dimmer lights, so I will try lowering the light level. My humidity level is 'normal' and there are no fans. Thanks for your video!

[@NoahNobody]

I love these experiments

[@Albopepper]

Thanks Noah!

[@yapdog]

Thanx for the info! Would've been nice to see if increased airflow helped the first plant avoid tip burn, tho.

[@jeffbarron6148]

I once read that inner tip burn is caused by shallow roots drying up. My DWC Romaine is now having this problem and I have identified what I think are the problem roots. It looks like the water level is just getting a little too low and the roots growing out the side of the rockwool are air pruning. This is with HLG 5000K 135 w LEDs. I am thinking the solution is to more properly place the tap root through the rockwool so more of the roots are near the bottom and can not be air pruned.

[@gereral1_jackofalltrades]

I run sf600 spiderfarm light. What light duration would you suggest hanging light 10 inch above buttercrunch lettuce. Currently I'm running 14 on 8 off. Should I be running less time on. Any tips can help. I cannot raise lights any higher because of bookshelf I'm using

[@vanniyo8988]

You can lower humidity as well to increase transpiration

[@anonlf8398]

Interesting info even though i don't grow lettuce but carnivorous plants that need a lot of direct sun light. I have a Sansi 24w at 5 inches of the venus fly trap, I don't know if it will get tip burn. I think lettuce and carnivorous plants don't react the same at light even though they both grow outside. I think carnivorous plants leaves are more tolerant to strong light so it's probably fine that the Sansi light is very close to the plant.

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for sharing your experience! I've found that my flytraps grow short, stubby and magenta when given bright light.

[@FordPasscheatcodes]

I've been having this problem with my romaine lettuce. My light is pretty low. Ill try raising it a bit to see if i can get this under control.

[@Albopepper]

Hopefully that helps!

[@PATRICKCHUAD]

Thanks for sharing

[@John50129]

As always I find your videos entertaining, informative and well made. Keep up the good work. A quick question if you have the time. I think your SIP is probably one of the best designs I have seen. I want to build one or several. My question is ..... How far will Peat Moss wick vertically?

[@Albopepper]

Hi John! Thanks for watching. :-D Also, for you kind words about my SIP designs. I would expect peat moss to wick at least 12 inches vertically. But I've never tested it to see what the maximum wicking potential is.

[@pedclarkemobile]

@@Albopepper the longer the fibre the better, Coco coir is excellent for wicking, adding a surfactant to the nutrient solution helps too. (I hope this is useful info 3 years after you asked the question!) 🙄

[@growstar6646]

Wonderful video! A great experiment! The channel is just a bomb ) We did the same experiment . And we got very similar results for lettuce . Hydroponics optimum value of 300 18 hours per day . Or 350 16 hours a day . Over the tops of the plant . For soil it is better 150 than 300. Because of the speed of feeding

[@DreidMusicalX]

I was wondering if the taste is different from being grown outdoors and doing this with leds or different lighting? Sorry I am new to this and learning.

[@CanerKilinc]

Hi Is there any specific led growing light that you can recommend today?

[@raffiboy1234]

what are the kelvins of these new white lights

[@carlososorio8291]

buenas noches para hacer una pregunta que ciclo de luz usas

[@MarcoVandenBroucke]

Nice information, things are now clarifying in own project too. Thx

[@randomjohn]

Wow, great stuff. Lots of relevant stuff for me.

[@giagu6377]

How to deal with outer tipburn? I transplanted some basil seedlings into potting soil, water whenever the surface is dry, sitting next to a window with good lighting & airflow and their leaves were just slowly brown and curl up...

[@Albopepper]

Without photos, it's hard to say. If the light was super intense, they could be getting sunburn. But it might also be a disease like basil downy mildew or root rot. I'm assuming they weren't overfertilized, which could cause nutrient burn.

[@ethomasp]

What's the Kelvin value for the broad spectrum light?

[@maxgomez8967]

Hello AlboPepper, can you do a experiment of effect of fan in tip burn of a lettuce with DLI of 16 or 20 in future videos?

[@mtndan6969]

Is there a life to the lights, meaning will it give light but lose spectrum intensity?

[@kddacraker]

Hi how much lux does ideally lettuce should have ? any idea ?

[@dexxxxxxxx]

Hello, Would you please help me with my Hydroponic set up for commercial purpose?

[@RetroBerner]

Great info, this will help me grow the best lettuce ever. Thanks, I can't wait to smoke it!

[@Albopepper]

LOL, thanks for watching!

[@bedsbay1]

Your videos are on point and very relevant but I would like to see you make suggestions when it come to what equipment you think is the best or what you recommend?

[@myname20onehondred]

So many experiments in one

[@Albopepper]

I never expected it to go the way it did. But I'm always discovering new things with each test! ;-)

[@saipreetham2400]

Really A very good video. A small clarification, what is your recomendation for light to plant distance for better results and yeild.

[@Nova_st3r]

Thanks so much for your real test

[@Albopepper]

Thank-you for watching! :-D

[@sMileHighCity]

Your videos are great!. Thanks for posting

[@larembatoe2488]

Thanks...very helpfull 🙏🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩

[@minicat3640]

This is excellent information! Thank you!

[@carolinehonse35]

Your videos are sensational! Typically I use t5's for growing green leafy vegetables but now I've added a couple of Galaxyhydro Dimmable LED Grow Light, 96W (300W for combined 100 bulbs) Indoor Plants Grow Lights with UV and IR for fruiting vegetables. The problem is I have 5 level shelving units and I don't have a clue how close to put them to the mature flowering/fruiting plants. Help! If my shelves are about 18 inches apart do I need to crank down the wattage and how far? I just need a guesstimate starting point that won't fry the plants while I fiddle with the distances and variable wattage. Thanks for any help you can offer.

[@KiengLe]

In your test, white led is better for growing?. Healthy plants.

[@Albopepper]

Yes. My white version of the same light worked much better with lettuce.

[@leandrosouzabio]

Could you tell me the Kelvin rating of the full spectrum model from SANSI? It looks yellow from the pictures I googled. I saw they have a full spectrum model that has a yellowsh white color. I could not find a bluish white. Is that one in the video bluish or yellowsh white? I want to grow desert plants.

[@kennyfucker1]

If i put 20 of these sansi lights on a board, can i use it to flower happy plants? Not to be "cheap" but to be fun

[@Albopepper]

It's not a practical thing to do, but yes, it would work.

[@kennyfucker1]

@@Albopepper heheheh maybe i can buy them in bulk. Im gonna look at the sansi site

[@gillenzfluff8380]

My garden soil must be good I never had tip burn on lettuce or any other plants for that matter, I sometimes get blossom end rot on tomatoes from erratic watering though.

[@juancruzabregu7243]

How is the light flow in lumens?

[@John-lc1uq]

Does anyone make a light that is totally just for lettuce?

[@shortvids6547]

Does the sansi brand have consistent wattage on their lights as far as your experience goes?

[@Mike-qd7wd]

Do you Think that a shorter light duration could have solved the issue as well? I know it would slow growth, but I have a small space that is limited vertically as well.

[@hectormora-romero5868]

It was caused by the reds and far red spectrum that made the first batch stretch ultimately, he would want a more blue spectrum for more compact plants(other factors to consider also).

[@KiengLe]

Why s your white led have yellow color

[@Ulim151]

Really interesting. Ive been growing some lettuce under red blue LED and its just acting all wierd. Its extremly stunted and has tip burn but all the other plants like the spectrum it seems. I dont care for lettuce at all though so i dont mind it dying. But definetly something interesting that lettuce doesnt accept red blue LED.

[@thammanoonkapanya4255]

Hello. You have said "under highly light level, growth rate is boosted" But if the plant can't transpire fast enough, they can't supply the increasing demand for Ca2+ that will lead out tip burn. So, my question is can we reduce the out tip burn by increasing Ca2+ in water source instead of reducing light time or light intensity? Please answer my question🙏🙏🙏

[@Albopepper]

The problem isn't a lack of calcium. The problem is that the plant can't draw it up fast enough. Adding extra calcium to the solution won't fix that.

[@thammanoonkapanya4255]

@@Albopepper Sorry, I miss some key point. It not out tip burn but is inner tip burn case. Tip burn caused by plant can't transpire fast enough to pull high demand of nutrient. I think we have two ways to solve it. Using fan to increase transpire = plant gain more Ca2+ or let they use the same transpire rate but increase Ca2+ concentration in water = plant gain more Ca2+ right?

[@nemo9396]

What are full spectrum LED made of? Are they off the shelf regular white LED lights?

[@Albopepper]

The video description has a link to the SANSI lights. And their product listing shows the spectrum.

[@pfrischknecht]

I have wanted to test led proximity... overall. Light density is far greater up close, losing most of it's intensity within the first few inches. Controlling light intensity and distance from plants I think we can greatly improved the efficiency of energy/light conversion and plant delivery. I can imagine a bunch of quadcopters doing it 😀. But till that day, even just moving the light fixture up manually at a fixed known rate would provide some interesting data. Lastly, anybody knows what happens to plants if we "flicker" the lights? Since LEDs has no startup lag or "warm up/down" cycle (like hid), I wonder: how to plants react to frequencies other than 60Hz. Love your shows... Maybe some of these ideas have already been tested, just point me in the right direction 😀

[@dankadybong7948]

Peter Frischknecht . i once had flucker with muh hdi 150w. turns out i wired the + and ground in the wrong nuts. for some reason, it didnt matter. it did run but with flicker and small sound of electric short. i never wired it right so i have no proof it was that, but i'm pretty sure.

[@Mr91495osh]

Peter Frischknecht the inverse square Law.. double the distance, times four the area covered by light and decreases the light intensity by four.

[@leet0809]

Very informative!

[@Albopepper]

Cool! Thanks for watching. :)

[@gydrichbomberg7121]

I love your illustrations.. do you make em yourself? do you have a book on hydroponics and or your topics?

[@Albopepper]

Thanks Gydrich! I'm a graphic designer and I build all of my graphics and illustrations myself. I've never done a book, but that would certainly be a cool idea. :-)

[@gydrichbomberg7121]

@@Albopepper cool, your content is very informative and your graphics are great. only starting to learn this subject matter now but your explanations make it easier to understand thank you

[@fnurbz]

You sir, are awesome

[@koreanjoe]

Great video. Subbed

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for your support kj! :)

[@descono3158]

i like your channel man! Thanks

[@Albopepper]

Thanks for watching! :-)

[@miikeydobodobo5304]

I just ordered a marshydro tsw2000 what do you recommend is the best height and strength to her for my butterhead may queen lettuces? 25%50%75%100% dimmer, sorry I’m new to all this haha

[@Albopepper]

It will depend on the number of plants / coverage area. Also, the light cycle duration will impact how intense the light can be before the plants start to get tip burn.

[@miikeydobodobo5304]

@@Albopepper I just checked the specs at 25% it’s 250ish ppfd in the corners of my 3x3 tent so I should be ok at 12-18” I’m rounding it doesn’t o your best results in this test thanks

[@angelp.537]

Hi LUIGI! and you are wearing green too. Where is Mario? 😀

[@ginarichardson6097]

Can I grow lettuce by my window & avoid inner tip burn or do I have to invest in light bulbs?

[@Albopepper]

Try it on your window first and see how it works out.

[@williamwesley5078]

OMG BRO I WANT THAT "CHLOROPHYL JUNKIE" SHIRT, that is right down my Alley

[@Albopepper]

Awesome man! You can order any of my shirt designs from my Spreadshirt store: shop.spreadshirt.com/albopepper/ :-D

[@chewee2k]

Thanks for the info.

[@ArcturanMegadonkey]

great info. Liked and sub'd

[@GrowDaddy]

Ugh I am getting outer tip burn but just a little

[@Albopepper]

Doh!

[@ikyitching]

Is 16 hours light too long for lettuces? Can it encourage bolting?

[@Albopepper]

16 hours will work ok for lettuce as long as the light intensity is not too high. And of course, you need a good color spectrum. I say this based on the varieties that I've tested. If there is a cultivar out there that bolts under 16 hour light, I am not aware. FYI: In the Lettuce Handbook PDF that I reference in the description, the researchers were growing lettuce seedlings under 24 hr light.

[@veger2001]

Wow really cool info .. Thank you :)

[@benmartin4489]

I grow lettuce all year in the UK. With just water .

[@Albopepper]

Cool! They need nutrients too though.

[@ridhwanchandra4109]

Thankyouuu!!

[@Mr91495osh]

What’s your opinion on fish oil?

[@Albopepper]

hmm... What is the context of your question? I'm not sure what you mean about fish oil. Are you asking about consuming it as dietary supplement?

[@Mr91495osh]

Fish oil used as fertizer

[@Albopepper]

Oh, I see. You mean fish emulsion? I've used it in the past. It is a little stinky, but some people swear by it. Moving forward, I would not buy it anymore. I use clean nutrient powders for hydroponics. And I use a simple, all-purpose organic fertilizer for my outdoor garden.

[@KiengLe]

White led=blurple =15w?

[@Albopepper]

Yes, both light colors are 15 watts.

[@KiengLe]

@@Albopepper try to use phyto 20w

[@impulsiveurge5837]

wow is your green shirt intentional? you look like luigi here

[@rogeraguilar3940]

Voice sounds like one of those after school special for kids sounds like you can do great reading children's books to groups of kids lol

[@ihreMaskeSitztNichtRichtig]

Good infos here, thx Flyin' #TOMARS 👍

[@tk-maker]

Sometimes I am very confused, there was a guy looks excatly like you, maybe a twin? but he is a profesional drone pilot (Mr Steele) but you are hydrophonic expert.😆

[@robertroigsantamaria]

with the red+blue lights the plants were probably missing some wavelenghts, and went to the source trying to get some. nowadays you can get ... . some so called full spectrum leds, that are basically red+blue but have some IR, and UV and are suposed to work better. for less than 2$ you can get a 20watt you can connect directly to the mains 120/220v you just need some heat dissipation.

[@dankadybong7948]

robert roig . its probably 8w in reality. leds are run below 50% bcuz at 100% they would only last a few seconds. i dont get why they dont just say the actual and nominal watt values, and explain why, that way it would be honest.

[@Albopepper]

Dankady Bong - Each LED tests at least 14.5w ACTUAL power draw at the wall. I measured it with my KillAWatt meter.

[@dankadybong7948]

AlboPepper - Drought Proof Urban Gardening . i meant in general in the amazon and aliexpress ads... it causes confusion.

[@ItsAnonymousGuy]

'Latuca Sativa' xD

[@samhenke4923]

Train the lettuce.

[@kickinwinghotboi883]

"TIP URN"

[@rl1111rl]

That was most informative. Thank you!