pricing your work - business of blacksmithing

Continuing our earlier discussion on selling ones work, I thought I would offer some thoughts on how to price your work. This discussion on the business of blacksmithing is mostly just my random thoughts.
Blacksmithing as a Business by Nol Putnam
www.anvilmag.com/smith/blcasab...
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The following list provides just a few resources to help you find supplies and equipment for blacksmithing.
www.piehtoolco.com/
www.centaurforge.com/
www.blacksmithsdepot.com/
www.blacksmithbolt.com/
www.oldworldanvils.com/
www.nimbaanvils.com/
fontaninianvilandtool.com/
www.abana.org/
www.mcmaster.com
kensironstore.com/
Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.

[@ichtheanforge6468]

I was at a show recently and another vendor recognized me from last year. I was on my way to the forge to try to fix some sad little forks I had previously forged out for myself and my family to use. Admittedly, they weren't very serviceable as they were the first forks I had ever done. The vendor sees them and asks, "What have you got there?" I showed him the forks and he wanted to buy them. I told him they weren't for sale and weren't worth selling. He insisted. I figure I had at that point put about half an hour into each of the four forks. So I just told him $20 for the 4 of them. I felt the price was too low honestly, but he scowled and said, "That's too much! I get forged forks from [a big box store] for $2.50 a piece. But they are discontinuing them." I told him I had far more time than that into each fork and they weren't for sale. I told the resident blacksmith at the show about the incident. It angered him a little and he pointed out that the other guy wasn't getting hand-forged forks for $2.50. He was getting cheap Chinese stuff that was made to look hand-forged.

[@BlackBearForge]

Selling to other dealers is always a hassle. Sometimes its worth it, but sometimes its just a pain.

[@mking3219]

Theres the problem with the crafts,I say boycott cheap Chinese copies,buy American, Canadian, wherever, merry Christmas!

[@gfhbj5472]

0000

[@ScrolledAgain]

The most impactful part for me was thinking for the sake of other makers, this goes for any field you work in. By driving down your price you are hurting your whole field. Business classes don't tell you this, in an age where a lot of store fronts are closing to go online its important we keep these things in mind so we do not negatively impact our entire field.

[@3870TheDad]

John, this is a necessary talk that most new Blacksmiths never have. If they are fortunate to have a mentor that will talk to them about things, they might get a small discussion on this subject. You have had the pragmatic approach that looks at blacksmithing as a business. Your advice it's worth a whole bunch more than that of another hobbyist blacksmith. Don't sell yourself short, you just have a class on "Blacksmithing Business 301 - Are you in a Business or hobby?" The tuition is pretty steep.

[@scottwood6769]

Stephen Lockwood Not just blacksmiths, all business

[@daxtonkane9951]

Thank you for the free, yet priceless, knowledge. I just started learning the trade a bit over a month ago and your channel has been an amazing resource. Thank you so so much!

[@DomMini]

Unfortunately some people don’t understand what you just explained. They look at something and have a price in their head and have no idea what it actually cost to make it. I feel this concept is what actually caused the downfall of America with outsourcing.

[@BlackBearForge]

True. But it goes much deeper. People have only so much to spend and are convinced that more is better, even if it cheap and disposable. So they would rather buy 5 things that won't last instead of paying a crafts person for a single thing that will survive past their life time.

[@DomMini]

Black Bear Forge You are absolutely right, we live in a disposable society. It’s a shame.

[@90mastika]

2 years later: 10 (ten) downvotes and 2,3k up. Good speech, sir.

[@Michaelthorg]

The hotdogs at the shows always get me too

[@ShaminMike]

Probably the best video I’ve seen on pricing your work. For some reason a few things just clicked thank you brother

[@MikeBullockOnline]

This was an interesting piece. And I'm not even a blacksmith! The presentation may have wandered back and forth, but I think you did a great job of conveying some financial concepts in a very straight forward way. I have 20+ years of experience working as a technologist (think software and web) for large company along with half a dozen years running a small business with a partner. In the corporate world we call something like your automatic hammer a capital expense or capital purchase. The dollars don't all go to the operating expense line for the month of the purchase. The accounting group categorizes the item purchased and we recognize x% of the expense each month over that lifetime. This is very typical and very sensible . . . if done responsibly (naturally you can find businesses that try to hide expense or defer expense by classifying stuff inappropriately). The same concept is totally applicable for a small businesses. The small business I run is a tanning salon. We treat durable, high value, equipment like a tanning bed as a capital expense vs an operational expense. Understanding how all this plays out is super important. For example, it is critical to understand operating expenses vs cash flows and such. In this context you don't want to skew average numbers with large purchases (e.g. that automatic hammer) when understanding monthly profitability. It is just as critical to understand, however, that while your average monthly expenses are $x, you will certainly run into all manner of scenarios where you need to pay out 3x, 5x or 10x in a given month. If something like that hammer is critical to your business, you better be accruing (fancy finance word for setting aside or saving) money every month in your bank account for when you'll need to replace it. I think a lot of small businesses fail because they aren't properly capitalized and able to deal with those 3x, 5x, 10x months. With respect to marketing, I'm going out on a limb and guessing that black smith work is totally boutique. By this I mean that you are by definition never going to be chasing anything remotely mass market. The latter will always belong to the large retailers and that steady flow of super cheap goods from overseas. I'm not making a value judgment here one way or the other mind. Just saying. . . Personally, I buy as much boutique, personally crafted stuff I can afford to- afford here means price, but also availability and other things. My experience is that when selling into boutique markets it is very, very important to tell your story to your customer. Tell them who you are, how you make your product, why you make your product. Etc. You are never going to win based on price. If price is my motivation, my new hammer is coming from harbor freight! But maybe I really like the idea of owning something that another human being made with care and hard won skill. You know, something that I can pass on to my kid one day along with a story about how it was made and why it is special. . .

[@BlackBearForge]

thanks

[@FornaxusCrucible]

Every production job has 4 basic components: Materials, Labor, Overhead, and Profit. Overhead includes "new" equipment costs (amortized over time), rent/lease, power, fuel, and expendable materials (buffing compounds, oils, waxes, etc). Labor is based on what your time is worth (and can be variable based on the difficulty of the project, but it's easier to keep it consistent). Profit for most production goods, regardless of industry, is between 18% and 22%. You can build a straight up formula for this (I did in my business), but you also have to think about your market, and what people will pay. This could cut into your profit, but should never cut into any of the other components.

[@FornaxusCrucible]

I typed this out about 1/3 of the way through this video - you covered pretty much everything I mentioned. Great video, man!

[@j.r.5130]

Thanks- this is very informative

[@KrisKustomPaint]

I wish I could give this two thumbs up. A lot of the same concepts apply the custom car builds and restorations. I agree whole heartedly that people under valuing their work is a downward drag on an entire industry.

[@frankclarkjr6369]

Yup ! Yup! Yup! I do restoration work also, know what it's all about bro.

[@thomasanderson7164]

I can't believe they're is 12 thumbs down.. how in the world could you dislike this? He's giving you priceless knowledge! Thank you sir for your knowledge and time.

[@allyblair]

thank you for this John. It helps.

[@BlackBearForge]

I am glad it helps.

[@Stewspot]

As an active board member of my local of the Canadian Federation of Musicians fighting for fair pay for all I will recommend your video for viewing. The lessons taught are as relevant to the music trade (and all trades) as they are to blacksmithing. Far too many artists under value their worth. Bravo!

[@CreachterZ]

Very wise. Blacksmith or not. Thank you, sir!

[@BlackBearForge]

You are very welcome

[@JarlSeamus]

There's an old saying about Nobody ever owns a business, the business owns you.

[@BlackBearForge]

I haven't heard that before. But it sounds pretty darned accurate.

[@jjppres]

As a business owner I agree wholeheartedly.

[@5x535]

Seems like, working at not being owned by my business was another job in itself.

[@scottwood6769]

Earthdrumz Anyone who has been in business for themselves would say, Amen

[@ronnie2115]

4 years later, but THANK YOU!. Always nice to hear your experiences and insight.

[@DKphin]

I really like these talks about the business

[@TC-um2ti]

I have always thought, “Knowing your overhead keeps the roof over your head.” You speak true.

[@sl.m4906]

This is the talk that i needed the most... And i am three years late... Glad i started watching your videos and this pops up in my recommendations.

[@BlackBearForge]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ewsblacksmithing]

I rewatch this video all the time and keep up on your videos about the budget shop. You should do a “redo” of this video. I think you have touched on all the little points in newer videos but putting it all back into one would be nice

[@geoffreynewton5839]

John I have had a saddlery business for over 40 years and what you have explained is exactly what we deal with every day. If you are in a “craft “ type business it is very hard to get paid what your time and experience is worth. I do the same as you; find core, mundane jobs that you can make good money on and then you can afford to get a bit less for the jobs that you want to do.

[@mrarmyveteran7355]

This video has about the best guide for pricing ones work, in just about every craft. Hopefully people understand how informative it truly is. Thank you for the lesson.

[@BlackBearForge]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@chrisfeist5782]

Your dead Wright I'm just starting hoping to get workshop a fue miles away from my rental home .and yes hoping to sell later and yes that off people should get fare money for there goods. I think your probably the most honest person on the utube.your down to earth and not a big I'm like most.thanks for the great work and videos. You have. Your the best.

[@unrussleablejimmies4428]

Thank you very much for empowering me to be successful. This information is something we should learn in high school but alas im 33 andjust now able to appreciate the importance of record keeping.

[@MJHemmer]

Thanks for the insight on the business side!

[@TheEvertw]

Great advice! Anyone thinking of starting their own business should hear this, not just blacksmiths.

[@smk6650]

This is an excellent video. Thank you as always.

[@donsambo5488]

As someone looking to start learning, this video is insanely important. It's helping me to visualize and prioritize my long term goals and I thank you for making it.

[@thuss5162]

Retired self employed craftsman that was the worst part of being self employed craftsman you can never get your time out of a project! so tuff to work for yourself and make a profit as far as the shows where else can you get a smoked turkey leg!

[@The-Khatalyst]

I am super later to this obviously (I just started blacksmithing) and I really appreciate your statement of bringing down the price for everyone by selling your work cheap. I've been woodworking since I was in high school, and I recently talked to another woodworker who was selling his turned stuff for very cheap. I asked him why he was doing it. He said, "Well I'm retired, I'm not trying to make money, I am just trying to break even and have fun." I told him that was good for him, but I am not retired and he was taking business away from me by selling his stuff for a break even price. In mind mind it's borderline immoral to sell your work for break even just because you can.

[@tinymission7821]

Everyone has the right to set their own price. But, the thing is, many buyers are willing to pay more. They can see a higher price as higher quality. They feel better about the purchase knowing it is making a difference in a creator’s life. I have been in the creative world my entire life. It’s not easy but if you rise to somewhere in the upper part of your field of creativity, you can ask and get the price you need to make ends meet. I create somewhere in the $300,000 range of products a year. I can create at the speed of $200 an hour or more. I am well paid for the small town that I live in. I’m in the top 15% of earners in my field of creating nationwide. That’s not really saying a lot to be honest, but I can honestly say I love what I do and l love my job. It took me many years to get to this level though. I am very focused and very fast. I have customers watch me and just marvel at my talent. I’ve had a lawyer watch me create something for him and he said “That was just amazing to watch.” I’ve received tips in the hundreds of dollars from customers before. I’m not bragging about my work, I’m simply saying, if you can be a shining light in your creative field, you can make a decent living in that field. You can command higher prices. Your work will be sought after. I work for a small business, I don’t own it. I get time and a half for overtime, paid holidays and nice yearly bonuses too. But, in return, I see to it that I turn out the quality of work and the amount of work that it takes to make that business successful because that is also the key to my success. I also have a creative business of my own. I do exactly the same thing there. I look for what the customer wants and that is what I create. Never try to make a customer like what you like. Listen carefully to what they want and then create it. Do more, do it faster, do it better. Amaze them with quality. Be charming, be knowledgeable, be a listener, be kind, be humble as well. Always remember you are selling yourself as well as your creations. They go hand in hand. When someone buys your items, thank them for making it possible for your creative journey to continue. Let them know that they make a true difference in your life. They will remember that. And they will feel good about their purchase of your creations.

[@jackdawg4579]

you covered a lot of ground John, and you did it well. I cant think of any business related content you didnt cover, except taxes, and that would be so different for different places, you couldn't cover it. My blacksmithing is only a hobby, and I suspect I will probably never sell anything on principal as my real world job is running a business (for someone else) and the enjoyment I get out of my blacksmithing is getting away from all of that business related milarky! having said that - my relatives end up with a lot of steel christmas and birthday presents :)

[@BlackBearForge]

I do look forward to the day I can return to smithing just for my own purposes.

[@8MADJACK]

I liked it and the "rambling" is good insight into the thought process behind it. I agree on the boredom, you need satisfaction, making tons of boring widgets is going to suck the joy out of life, so good mindset to me.

[@EnduroQueb]

I am so agreed with you will not selling my works for a price of a burger

[@R_Arizona]

Thank you sir for your videos. I’m just starting at this a bit late in life. I have 25 years in my current profession and it is about time to retire. I am learning from your videos and taking classes at school. Thank you for this video it’s really good for thought

[@BlackBearForge]

Best of luck!

[@Guitarplayer724]

Same with me, I'm 56 and just now starting out as a beginner blacksmith. John's video's have been a godsend.

[@curtisdahl3249]

Thanks for everything you do I am a retired welder/ instructor/ inspector and am doing some artisan type work and use a propane forge and have an anvil and some basic blacksmith tools and have learned a ton from you so thanks again and keep doing what your doing cheers Curtis

[@manfoodchannel]

Thank you yes you ramble but we all do this subject is one that needs it tho I'm just setting my forge at the age of 42 I didn't my blacksmithing training in my 20s I worked in iron foundrys from the age of 16 was a furnace man by the age of 20 pretty young in the city I live at least most people don't get to run a furnace till there closer to 30 I lost that job due to being badly hurt one morning ended my life as the king of the smiths making the metal but I have a passion for metal and working with it your videos and Alex steel and Christ iron works made me see that being a smith wasn't just something I love and have a passion for but you guts have shown me the truth witch is still smith a very much needed and now I'm learning so much I never learn in my training a bout honestly using my skills to make money videos like this are so help full please keep up the hard work

[@stuartmcintosh5709]

John, your helping people to understand that there’s a real world out there when it comes to experiences and other things, you’ve just hit the nail on the head as some of us over the pond would say, it’s a thumbs up 👍 for that. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@BlackBearForge]

Thanks

[@thatsthewayitgoes9]

Thank you

[@Northfordtrailcam]

I teach a career counseling class to graduate students at a public university. This semester, I required that each student present on a hobby; who their family influencers where (if any); if they could turn this hobby into a business; and, if they'd even want to. I took a tomahawk to class...and their eyes nearly popped out!

[@yoitsgunattack]

I am doing a blacksmithing degree and I asked my teachers and both of them said as a ball park they aim for make about £60 an hour to pay off tools and rent and stuff and about £15 of that becomes a salary

[@Aco747lyte]

Excellent advice; your knowledge is invaluable! ...My daughter does the maths on our products and our prospecting tools make significant profit. However, she keeps her apprentice test pieces which I feel is representative of her dedicated craftsmanship. Thank you very much for this - much of your advice is already being used! ~Wendi and Molly 🌻

[@bijouboi1]

This was actually a great video. Very intelligent, frank conversation about basic business that all new craft/trades people should watch. I am a trades person with a small business and every point you made rang true for me!

[@johnjude2685]

Maybe just a hobby but I have spent money on the shop, tools, sandpaper, electric and not a whole lot lot of gifts coming to me I do now hopefully will get some of my money back as my skills grow

[@MrSquishles]

This is probably a skill that can be useful for any proffession.

[@Paulkellar]

Great advice I was just thinking about this today

[@emeryjoiner1216]

I have been watching you show for about 2 months and I really in joy see what you make I would like to get in to it how can I get started in it my name is Emery I'm for Alabama I couldn't find any places to get the tools to get started

[@David-fv7zg]

Somehething else to think about. If you cant keep an item on the shelf, selling it so quickly you cant make enough, then you need to charge a little more, slow down the sales so you can work at a reasonable pace while making more per piece.

[@Stangconvertible4]

I have just begun my own small part time business. I cannot thank you enough for sharing your experience and what choices to make. I really appreciate it.

[@BlackBearForge]

Enjoy the journey

[@charlesstreet1447]

Love your videos. This video was very helpful.

[@UsDiYoNa]

Much obliged.

[@bluesteelworx]

Been welding for 45 years, ready to retire and work like this from home, thank you for the info.

[@Camper-kw5yr]

Still relevant 2 years on. I am just starting as a hobby. But as I have been talking, people have been asking/inquirying about various items. Hell I can barely make a decent 'S' hook let alone a knife. But it got me thinking that I should make sure I quote people a fair price for my work. Even if my work takes much more time to produce.

[@matttaimuty5397]

Right on the money. ( pun intended) This is the unpleasant truth about our industry. We don't make what we ar ed worth. It's a labor of love that pays the Bill's, hopefully. Nobody get rich blacksmithing. But. We sure as $#@! enjoy doing it. 🥰

[@squattingturtle7976]

Way to explain cost to your customers. Still loving your videos.

[@kennardchristensen4303]

Years ago my boss told me to use the 333 method, 1/3 cost, 1/3 labor, 1/3 profit and never sell yourself short

[@jimmysblacksmithing462]

Hello again, I commented on this video from the iPad which somehow the channel is messed up, just wanted to clarify that so you know who it is. I have two accounts and one is the wrong one. Please forgive my ignorance as far as computer knowledge. Very open to learning, but just not pressing the right buttons here and there. Anyways your video is awesome I guess it's a couple years old by now. But still very helpful and definitely even in 100 years from now or more. If we still have these electronic devices. Thanks again for sharing it's still ringing in my head even though I'm coloring with granddaughter. Have a beautiful day and stay well keep up the Great work as always. Jim

[@bobrees4363]

Good advice. One thing I will add, take a bookkeeping class. My Dad tried to tell me to take Bookkeeping in high school, but of course I knew better (Ha). Fast forward a few decades and I finally took the class in college, after twenty years in the Navy. I consider it the one best class I took while getting my Business degree. Most of the classes I considered as just a refresher of what I learned in high school, which is a sad state of the education system in this country.

[@opa_plays_mw5318]

The San Mai Santoku (Chef's knife) I'm making now, I have 3 hours of hands on time at the forge and profiling (more for anneal and testing that anneal by drilling pin holes), I've still got to heat treat and finish grind (2 hours at least), then polish (5 hours for the last knife this size) and put, shape, and finish the handle (4 more). Call it 15 hours of hands on, many more tempering. If I charged as a skilled craftsman, say 75 and hour, that would be $1, 125. I passed my last chef's knife to a pro chef I know, he used it for a week and he said he could not afford it after I told him how many hours of hands on time it takes. I've got about 3k into the hobby not counting the1300 in lessons I've paid out. The promise I made myself is to not take a dime out of the pocket of local bladesmiths (including the one teaching me). So, I gave him the knife. It's a Hobby, I make 2 a month and it keeps me healthy.

[@xCraZYx247]

I'm just starting into the blacksmithing trade (setting up my forge next week) but your videos including this one have been so educational and helpful. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar but above all else an amazing human being. Thank you for your time and your videos.

[@WilliamHearnTOEFL_Tutor]

This was a college level economics class worth $1,400. Thank you very much!!!

[@BlackBearForge]

Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful

[@WilliamHearnTOEFL_Tutor]

@@BlackBearForge My son is turning 15 this January and has been talking about blacksmithing for several years now. Santa just bought him a small, 2 burner forge, an ASO, and the basic blacksmithing tools to get started. We have not been able to find a blacksmith to give him lessons, so I'll be having him watch all of your excellent videos as well. Thank you!!

[@user-cw8rc1ex3t]

И это правильно. Главное пробовать, тренироваться, практиковаться. Получилось так, что в месте моего проживания нет кузнецов. И всё что я умею по прошествии 10 лет-всё благодаря книгам и KZbin.

[@WilliamHearnTOEFL_Tutor]

@@user-cw8rc1ex3t Same here my friend. All blacksmiths have retired, so I am learning from KZbin. Finally got the forge lit and made a chisel yesterday. Today, I am making a pair of tongs for knife making. May you be ever prosperous!

[@mikep.coplin6800]

Don't forget about checking in your area for a hand crafted product tax exsemption also a UE power usage tax credit write off exsemption forms. I seen some stuff online a long time ago and thought to myself " do these hand made craftsmen even know about it ? " Just some sharing thoughts !

[@henryneyens5066]

Great advise, thank you.

[@michaelhayes1678]

Thanks for the talk. It's a really important topic to consider, even for the hobbyist, because even a beginner hobbyist has an overhead to meet. Thanks a million and more!

[@eduardsberzins5806]

The best of the best!

[@dustyedmonds8170]

Thank you so much for being willing to share your experience and ramblings as you call them. I will be using this in my business to better my understanding of keeping better track of where my time is going. I really appreciate what you do.

[@BlackBearForge]

Glad it was helpful!

[@bentoombs]

Great info. 👍👍

[@heatherrockwell9224]

Thank you for sharing how to price our work. I think you were pretty easy to follow. I really enjoy all your videos. I have made a lot of the projects. I look forward to learning more.

[@acdcfreak01]

Great video 👍👍👍👍👍 thank you 👏👏

[@leperejoe1536]

Good info John.

[@abitoffblacksmithing9985]

Very good information! Thank you!

[@GWIRailroad]

Thank You very informative. Have a great week.

[@mitchelleastman6998]

Thank you. This helped me very much

[@mrprimenumbers6448]

Thank you, that does help.

[@olivergroce4216]

This was an education that I needed, Thank you sir.

[@mikewhipp2984]

Great video John. Very informative.

[@TardyTardigrade]

I am so glad that I found your channel. I just started blacksmithing about 2 weeks ago, little homemade forge in the backyard. All I have done so far is heat and hammer rebar to practice technique. Don't even have a real anvil yet. Trying to crowd fund for proper tools and equipment without much luck, being poor is not conducive to jumping into the smithing trade. I would love to actually apprentice for a blacksmith, but am not holding my breath for that. Anyway, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your videos. They are very informative and straightforward. This one especially, as I didn't even consider all the recordkeeping involved or pricing approaches. Keep up the great work and hope to see more from you in the future.

[@BlackBearForge]

Glad your enjoying the videos. Keep your eyes open for used tools and anvil like pieces of scrap. There are lots of make do options if you’re imaginative.

[@RenatSavi]

Thank you for sharing your thougts on this important topic

[@nicolaasporter3215]

Good stuff John. Thank you for the service of giving perspective as well as knowledge.

[@monkeyonfetanyl]

Thanks! :D helped me with my project

[@finleycole978]

Thanks for the video john its really helpful. And thanks for spending your time to help others out

[@dennisfischer9930]

Really well done, Black Bear Forge. tons of insights. thanks so much for sharing all this.

[@berniewolf6740]

Loved this.... "rambling" or not. Good stuff.

[@marianomorales7154]

Really really Good talk thanks a lot for your words

[@iwdavey]

Thank you. Very thought out

[@thatlittleworkshop]

I enjoyed the video I think your approach is bang on for any small business or home based venture. Lke your approach to your videos, you don't try to be a comedian or an entertainer but manage to do both quite naturally while just being a blacksmith. Thanks for the great videos 👍

[@hdee2678]

Thanks this was GOOD!

[@electricspaghetti3507]

very good video

[@robphone4895]

Very usefull info! Goes for a lot of small businesses.

[@jamesaldridge4381]

Thanks this answered a lot of questions .

[@asf130thecompany7]

You just made the whole complicated maths easy to figure out sir ^^ Very much thank you ^^

[@richardsolomon8076]

Thank you John, I've always worked for others and needed some help figuring out how much my own stuff was worth, lots of sensible things to take into account. Thanks again

[@evilgrin123]

These fundamentals hold true for any business. Thank you for highlighting it for black smithing. Very good video.

[@johnsantillo5904]

Thank you for this video, John. I myself am not a blacksmith but after watching a lot of your videos I am very interested in learning. Everything you said is perfectly applicable to any small business, really. One of my hobbies is making maple syrup which I love doing, but at this stage in my life it is difficult and remains a hobby because of the time invested. I enjoy doing it the old fashioned way boiling sap over a wood fire, and people love it, but to boil off 40 gallons of water that way takes the bulk of the day which doesn’t include the time to split wood or any other prep work. To do all that work for one gallon that I could maybe sell for $100 means that for now it has to stay a hobby. My wife’s grandfather was a very talented woodworker but never tried to sell anything he made because he could never justify asking what would have been a fair price for his time. I’m rambling so I’ll cut it off and just say thanks again and I look forward to the next video!

[@TAS1303]

Thanks. Like Adam said at WTF, very helpful.

[@JunkyBlake]

You are a saint among us steel beaters

[@bret354]

Thank you John

[@BlackBearForge]

You are welcome

[@BeastlyIronworks]

Thank you so much John. I'm s long time sub but not really a lot of comments. Every video you is inspirational to me and enjoy everything you do. Keep up the great work. Best regards. David

[@neilyeag]

Excellent discussion. I keep up with most of the cost factors, where I get hung up is trying to calculate the consumables. Like you said, abrasives, gas, finishing supplies, glue ect. Thanks for posting this.

[@xxxclampgodxxx5511]

Wow John you went pretty deep on that one. People don’t realize what it takes to have a small company and turn a profit Most people think everyone is making a mint. Being a contractor for 30 years isn’t as good as most people think. But you hit the nail on the head explaining what goes into pricing you labor time and materials and it’s even harder it you have a payroll to worry about also. The employees must get paid first other wish you don’t have a business. Thx again and another good on .... Paul..

[@BlackBearForge]

So true. If I had employees I think they would have a better pay and benefits package than I can give myself. But I don't see me ever wanting that much business.

[@xxxclampgodxxx5511]

Black Bear Forge I’m so glad that is over for me now being retired. But you would never now it I’m always in the shop blacksmithing do something grinding cleaning up sometimes just playing around. Thx John you really are a big help ...Paul...