Primary vs. Secondary Fermentation, Explained

[@mindyholiday8391]

This is good content, thanks for sharing your prospective. Good INFO..

[@letswineaboutit]

Thank you!!

[@aboujaoudecharles1468]

Thanks for the clarification of terms in using the word of fermentation and conditioning i like it ! Actually i started to brewing a home wine maker and i found that KZbinr filled with different opinions on how to make a home wine by adding a yeast and different chemical product while my neighbor is from old school never added anything to his wine process and turn to be amazing taste and for that reasons i started to be envolved by doing it. So what do you think of that ! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us

[@SquishMasterSInc]

You explained this perfectly, just what I needed to hear. You got a new follower as well 🥂

[@letswineaboutit]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@mdspider]

When making wine from grapes with the skins on I give it 10 days (punch down cap every day). and then rack it off the skins but making sure I get some of the lees from the bottom of the fermenter. I don't really consider that primary and secondary. I consider that an extended primary.

[@letswineaboutit]

I know that it's common practice to rack the wine off the skins after 10 or so days, but I cannot figure out why one would do that. What's the benefit of taking the wine away from the fruit material that would otherwise continue to infuse flavors, tannins, etc. into the wine?

[@mdspider]

@@letswineaboutit The year that I let it sit on the skins for 30 days instead of 10, it stressed my yeast and gave it a sulfur smell. I only do this with grapes though. Other fruits stay minimum of 30 in primary.

[@dockofthebaycountrywines69]

Great explanation!

[@letswineaboutit]

Thank you!

[@jimdent351]

Yeast lying at the bottom of the vessel will NOT suddenly start moving around to consume the suspended sugars above it. If the yeast is lying on the bottom of the bucket then it's life cycle is mostly over anyway.

[@PbFoot]

although i agree with your basic definition of primary vs secondary fermentation, there are chemical reactions and transformations occurring after you rack the wine/brew off the yeast into a secondary vessel, not to mention preventing potential autolysis. yeast might not be the cause of the reactions in secondary, if all the sugars have been converted, but other types of fermentation is happening, as well as degassing, diacetyl rest (in beer making), etc. maybe thats a blurry line between secondary and conditioning though. personally, i think secondary is when you rack off into another "open" system where gases can still escape, and conditioning (to me) is when you bottle and mature your brew in a "sealed" container.

[@letswineaboutit]

I wonder, though, even given what you’re saying whether secondary ‘fermentation’ is correct there, because other than MLF (which may happen in primary or not at all), no fermentation goes on once you rack (as far as I’m aware, none of those chemical reactions and transformations amount to fermentation), so the term is technically incorrect. It just seems clearer to me to call secondary something besides ‘fermentation’. You don’t have to call it conditioning - perhaps that’s better suited to the bottled stage, say - but I think a less misleading/confusing label is certainly in order, at least for the new home brewer. What do you think?

[@PbFoot]

@@letswineaboutit i guess it all depends on how you define "fermentation." technically its defined as a chemical breakdown of a substance by bacteria, yeast, or other microorganisms. so by that definition, if a bio-chemical reaction is occurring, then secondary is still "fermentation." if, however, you define it as yeast, specifically, converting sugars/starches to co2 and alcohol, then thats another story. i do agree with you that the terms have become confusing, because many use them to describe a stage of production rather than whats happening chemically. does that make sense?

[@letswineaboutit]

Good point that fermentation encompasses a broad range of phenomena. I guess the only question is whether those chemical reactions you've alluded to in secondary are caused by microorganisms, because not all chemical reactions amount to fermentation. What were you thinking of specifically? I appreciate the correction, though. I should have given more consideration to what fermentation actually is, and what happens to wine as it bulk ages. Still, one could press the point that if you bottle soon after primary, then should we say our wine is still in secondary "fermentation" in the bottles because those chemical reactions are still going on?

[@PbFoot]

@Let's Wine About It i wish i could say i knew exactly what is/might be happening chemically in "secondary" besides malolactic or diacetyl rest. i have a broad understanding of what might be happening, but you never really know unless you test or taste. lol and the spectrum of reactions only goes up if you're doing anything that might have wild cultures and not just specific yeast strains. like, if you're brewing with fruit that hasn't been stabilized/pasteurized, chances are there's going to be something on there thats doing some work in your brew. regarding bottling wine soon after primary, thats the fuzzy line for me, between "secondary" and "conditioning." because it seems to me both of those terms can be used to describe the same process. like with champagne, the goal is to have carbonation, but is that "secondary," or "conditioning," or just "methode champenoise?" even if you have a still wine, chances are it will taste different after some time in the bottle, and unless you stabilized/pasteurized, some of those changes will be a result of biochemical activity, so i think that still falls in the realm of "fermentation." 🤷‍♂️

[@letswineaboutit]

@@PbFoot Excellent analysis! I will put more thought into what the best system of categorization might be.

[@stanleygrover2162]

I agree fermentation and conditioning. But with reds I would say 2nd fermentation with bacterium for malolactic fermentation.

[@Oatmilkis]

Riddle me this, if I am making one gallon of wine, how long do I let it ferment? When do I know fermentation is over?

[@letswineaboutit]

It all depends! The cheeky but correct answer is to let it ferment until it’s done! Let it go until you see no airlock activity, and have taken two gravity readings a few weeks apart and those readings come out the same.

[@TL50-r9f]

I have a banana wine, with real bananas, still fermenting after 3 months, Primary was done after 3 weeks. It almost looks done bubbler slowing again, so I will wait 2 more weeks and swirl the fermenter to see if fermentation continues after it degasses CO2 for a day or two. I started Klingon Blood wine recipe from City steady brews and Blueberry mint wine , my creation, both started today. A great wine takes time and patience.

[@Crizzoify]

Man that cleared up a lot for me...pun intended.

[@letswineaboutit]

It's what I'm here for haha

[@stanleygrover2162]

Had a a lot of red wine diamonds. Before learning about malolactic fermentation.

[@letswineaboutit]

What’s a red wine diamond?

[@royalecrafts6252]

fermentation still happens after "primary" fermentation, thats why bottles explode

[@Persiancouplelife]

The facial expressions are completely unnecessary

[@marcharrison9847]

I like his enthusiasm

[@lemuelseale1640]

Its just how some people talk.

[@williamsmith7593]

Ty bro!

[@gasfrommyanusi0i594]

Those red eyes don't lie lol

[@somethingelse8042]

Thx

[@TL50-r9f]

Primary fermentation occurs when actual diced fruit is incorporated at the beginning rather than only the juice of the fruit. Primary is done in 3 to 4 weeks and the brew bag is pulled out.

[@davidbattrick3690]

I feel conditioned!!!

[@janstewart2041]

I feel aged

[@letswineaboutit]

@@janstewart2041 I feel secondary fermentationed.

[@janstewart2041]

@@letswineaboutit let’s skip all these steps and just drink it lol 😂