Principles for Orthodox YouTube / Debate / Evangelism - Father Josiah Trenham

[@ProtectingVeil]

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[@DRiceArizona]

I do a horrible job at not engaging online in a polite manner on topics I disagree with. I needed this message to recenter my mind.

[@ProtectingVeil]

Blessed struggle!

[@chardeemacdennis357]

I was terrible until I began my journey into Orthodoxy. I'm much more civil now, but there's still room for improvement 😅

[@ayonio5723]

Great wisdom from Fr Josiah as always!

[@richruggiero750]

Fr. Josiah always comes off to me as the spiritual adult in the room. When he talks I listen.

[@deanaburnham9571]

Yes Father! I've been repenting for referring to someone as a "Papal Protestant" when they were rude regarding Orthodoxy. It was my comeback as I was defending Orthodoxy. But how arrogant of me. And so, yes, I repent whenever this returns to my mind. I do not want to argue, hurt anyone's feelings on purpose, and I do not want to offend our blessed Lord. Thank you Father Josiah so much for your holy words here in this video

[@prayunceasingly2029]

I believe scripture says speak the truth in love? I don't read scripture enough

[@prayunceasingly2029]

Ephesians 4 : 15, is the verse. I also failed in speaking the truth in love. May God have mercy on me!

[@deanaburnham9571]

Would like a heart from Father 😂

[@thatsabignomydude]

Excellent words from Fr. Josiah!

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

Needed to hear this! Thank you Father! ☦️

[@timothyjordan5731]

Jay should watch this.

[@diananoonen2262]

Every word...Amen. Thank you Father.

[@taasch2505]

I have a lot of accounting for. This is one thing. I have a short temper. It takes a lot of effort for me when being insulted not to get physical. It physically hurts me to hold it in. But I have for over 20 years now. I am quick to go low when they go low. I am new to Orthodoxy and have not practiced Christianity in 22 years. I am getting into it for real now. I've attended 3 Liturgies now in a row and I felt inspired and ashamed. But I felt cleansed somehow and the parishioners made me feel so much better. I'm already making friends. Thank you for keeping it real and preaching, Father. You've been a beacon of light, knowledge, and wisdom for me. You're one of my inspirations for joining the church. One day I will come and meet you; promise. I look forward to that day too.

[@ProtectingVeil]

Good strength...Godspeed!

[@deanaburnham9571]

​​@@ProtectingVeil Two of us converting to Orthodoxy--a Dominican tertiary and I a professed Benedictine were living in SoCal and never went to a Divine Liturgy there--- but elsewhere in my case, to become familiarized. But gee, we all could have had the joy of meeting you Fr Josiah Trenham

[@CatholicSamurai]

Thank you, Father. As I've heard as a general exhortation for life: it is a good thing to strive to live peacably with all men!

[@kathiegettinger8374]

Amen. Thank you Fr. Josiah.

[@jamesbradwell8556]

Thank you for this timely message

[@prosoblue]

Thank you for your wisdom Father Josiah, I'm new to Orthodoxy, only a catechumen, but I feel like I am being called to evangelism, especially in my local area. I have found a treasure trove of faith that I want to share with everyone. If anyone has any advice on how to get started feel free to let me know.

[@ProtectingVeil]

Thanks to God! I'd encourage you to follow in the footsteps of St. Paul, who after conversion spent three years in the desert (Galatians 1:17)! Before you can evangelize, you first need to prepare...when the time comes, God willing, you should have the blessing and guidance of your priest and bishop. May God continue to guide and inspire you!

[@IOANNIS132]

🥇This was excellent thankyou. We likewise hope to improve our hospitality, communication, and delivery. Thank you again beloveds.. PV, Fr. Josiah and family. 🥰

[@bolshoefeodor6536]

I always stumble back into arrogance, pride, and dismissiveness when engaging heterodox who - to me and my pride - appear to be picking a fight. With atheists, the temptation is even more severe. Pray for me Brothers and Sisters, for humility, patience and love, with those who stand in opposition to our Lord and His Church. Anger is justifiable, but ONLY in and with our Lord's guidance and direction! Ortherwise it is just pride, aggression, envy, and curiosity! Sins! I asked about this in confession once. The priest said "just live the Holy Gospel, day to day. Devote yourself to the sacraments, prayer, fasting and serving. Be the love and conversion you would love to see, and it will happen by the Lord's grace!". He is a wonderful priest, wise beyond his years, and the Holy Spirit spoke to me through him that day.

[@ronnieblanchet4072]

Hey man, if my engagement was offensive to you the other day, my apologies. Please forgive me. God bless you n’ Lord willin’ maybe we will get to engage later. Till then, thanks again for posting about Oliver Anthony. SOLI DEO GLORIA (To The Glory Of God Alone) Father, Son & Holy Spirit -Ronnie

[@IAMFISH92]

This is much needed.

[@k.scotsparks9247]

Thanks for all. +

[@ourusalife]

When was this originally recorded?

[@ProtectingVeil]

20...19 maybe? This is the last of the series...

[@ourusalife]

@@ProtectingVeil Thank you.

[@UnworthySeraphim]

Sadly, it seems that some people are perhaps not understanding, or not acknowledging the difference between defending the Orthodox Faith againat heretics within the Church, and Evangelizing those outside of the church. Yes, some Saints and Holy Fathers used very strong and even derogatory language against certain heretics and blasphemers who were in the church, and who had refused to repent after being corrected in their heretical beliefs. I don't believe this gives any reason to then justify our own use of such "rhetoric" and language towards the heterodox outside of the Church if we see ourselves as engaging in Evagelistic outreach. Outreach to the non initiated is completely different than the rebuking of those initiated members who have taken on heretical beliefs. St Nicholas did not just strike some random pagan who rejected the Gospel. Perhaps the Beatitudes that Christ Himself gave us as those virtues which are truly Blessed, along with the fruit of the Holy Spirit which St Paul describes for us ought to be our primary sources of how we conduct ourselves with and towards our fellow men. And where and when we fail may God have mercy upon us and help us to acquire the virtues we lack

[@JayDyer]

Good advice but: The fathers mock and insult often in their rhetoric against opponents: if your entire argumentation was insults that’s one thing and it would be a failure and an abuse of rhetoric, but to argue all insults or mockeries are inherently sinful is not true and is also a hyper pious standard no one actually matches up to. Jesus even mocked at times calling people “dogs” etc.

[@RajVeesa]

Fair enough I guess.

[@007shlomo]

Digital platforms saturated with trolling, gaslighting and hyper abusive behaviors designed to provoke outraged responses in kind NEED to be subverted with a HPS, (Hyper Pious Standard).

[@CatholicSamurai]

The delusion that because some of the greatest masters of the Christian spiritual life did something at some point, means that anybody and everybody from the average joe onward, should do likewise... is utter delusion, prelest. I suppose there's nothing wrong with any ol Tom, Dick, and Harry just radomly becoming a stylite, or wandering aimlessly about half-naked, or hanging out near brothels every night? "The venerable saints did these!" It is an insulting distortion of the holy work of the saints of God to so carelessly appeal to their acts in order to justify and excuse wholesale such behavior that would be unbecoming of the average Christian (or worse, downright sinful). I, for my part, certainly do not believe that I have achieved such heights of the spiritual life as to know how and when to openly insult, namecall, slur, and/or mock others in holy witness to Christ.

[@BibleIllustrated]

"So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets" and "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire." Mocking is inherently sinful. Yes, the Fathers did it, we all do it, but we shouldn't. And one has to wonder how effective this mocking was at converting people; it probably did well for upholding orthodoxy, but as for converting people, not as much.

[@Judges.]

@@BibleIllustrated I have a question, so Christ mocking the Pharisees by calling them 'white washed tombs' is sinful? If to not follow Christ who are we to follow? I don't think mocking is inherently sinful because that would make Christ himself a sinner but I also believe that I cannot judge others because I would be condemning/judging the disposition of their soul without having the knowledge to do so as St. Dorotheos says. But then again, the Fathers mocked and insulted the heretics. To condemn them would be me pretending to be more pious than them. I guess what it boils down to weather the anger is righteous or not because the Fathers mocked people who opposed God, calling evil, evil. I'll stick to calling one's actions foolish instead of the person. I'm still uncertain.

[@sshields2173]

I would like to understand the orthodox view on the opinion that hesychasm is equivalent to hinduism and thus orthodox practice and belief has become heretical. I would also like to understand the orthodox position on phyletism and ecumenism and how all the patriarchs have become ecumenism and are thus infected with heresy. How can the true church be identified on Earth if the only two contenders (those with apostolic succession) Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy accuse each other of being riddled with heresy, and if both produce good and bad fruit?

[@Regular_Pigeon]

they can't both be right, but they can both be wrong. seems easy to me which one it is.

[@jamesbradwell8556]

I have quite a lot of experience with Indian religions, both Buddhism and Hinduism, and I can assure you that hesychasm is not equivalent to Hinduism. If you're asking are they similar in practice, the practice is not the same. Hesychasm emphasizes repentance and centering the mind in the heart to pray to Christ from the heart. Hindu yoga has many forms, but they mostly involve manipulating the subtle energy of the body in order to achieve exalted states of ecstasy/depersonalization. If you're asking if they're similar in terms of theory, the answer would vary a little bit depending on the school of Hindu theory, but for all of them I would still say no, they're very different. Hope that helps. As for the rest, I'd encourage you to just visit a parish and see for yourself. Then you will get an idea of what kind of fruit is being produced.

[@consciousstream5036]

Exactly correct. Great response.@@jamesbradwell8556

[@prayunceasingly2029]

Im definitely no expert but I think Hesychasm is a mystical form of prayer for certain monks. Most lay people and if I'm not mistaken, most priests, don't practice Hesychasm on a regular basis. It's a monastic traditional practice of silent prayer I think? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[@jacobbaradaeus6250]

Ummm only two contenders?. To be precise, the Syriac Arameans, the Greeks, the Romans, the Copts, the Ethiopians and Eritreans, the Armenians, the East Aramean Babylonians, and the Indians all have Apostolic foundations and Apostolic succession - not just the Greeks and Romans.

[@tomcondon6169]

Hi, I am interested about Orthodox Christianity. I would like to get along. I have encountered a lot of hostility from Orthodox videographers. I don't know Orthodox, I know 8t was part of the Catholic Church, and split off. I have heard speakers about Catholicism. As a Christian, we believe Jesus redeemed us from sin through one single act, his death on the cross and descent into death, then rising again. That 8s our Redemption. Catholics have an elaborate bunch of practices, and they still can't count on being redeemed. Catholic doesn't seem to be Christian at all, more like Pope-ism, and really, the Pope is the Caesar of Rome, so call him Caesar. I think Caesar created Catholicism in his own image, from the Roman Empire to the Holy Roman Empire, more of a cult. The Pope is said to believe he owns all land on earth, and all people. Jesus said those who lead into captivity will be led into captivity. Not looking good for old popey. Is this an accurate portrayal of Orthodoxy?

[@lucduchien]

Father Josiah is a good source on the internet for information on Orthodox Christianity. I'm not sure if this talk will clear up some of these things, but it will probably be beneficial for you to listen to. These are good questions for a local Orthodox Priest if there is one near you. Find a church nearby and give them a call to ask these questions. I have found the answers given by the Orthodox to satisfy my desire to understand Church history. I pray you find answers.

[@tomcondon6169]

@@lucduchien Thank you. I have reached out to several videographer, never a peep. I have, contacted the Russian Orthodox church a couple blocks from my old home, the Holy Virgin Cathedral, 6210 Geary Blvd, San Francisco, CA 94121. I only, called once, no one got back to me, and looking online, I couldn't understand their service structure. I used to see their clergy on the bus, or walking about. I will give them another try. I would be interested in connecting, even getting involved, but some structure outside of the Christian structure would not be, what to say? I was born, baptised, first Commu ioned, confirmed and served as an altar boy in Catholic Church. Then at 17, I became a Christian, and have been for 45 years, (maybe. I never give specifics online that could be used to derive my personal I formation like my birth date). I have an established relationship with the Lord, and have the Holy Spirit to guide me. I look to the promises made me through Jesus' shed blood to redeem me.

[@ProtectingVeil]

@@tomcondon6169 May God continue to guide your steps...I would encourage you to visit the church you mentioned and to speak with a priest there...that's the best path forward!

[@tomcondon6169]

@@ProtectingVeil Thank you. God bless you.

[@vsevolodtokarev]

May God help you fulfill your interest in Orthodox Christianity. I'd say it's Roman Catholicism that seceded from Orthodox Christianity. Since the ancient times, Christianity (it was Orthodox Christianity, there was no other kind, though since the times of the Apostles various heresies emerged and disappeared) was organized into three large subdivisions, called Patriarchates: one in Europe, with center in Rome, one in Asia, with center in Antioch, and one in Africa, with center in Alexandria; later, two more Patriarchates were introduced, with centers in Constantinople and Jerusalem; though the Orthodox Church was (and still is) subdivided this way for practical purposes, it remains One Church ecclesiologically. Pope of Rome was one of the five Patriarchs - which is to say, chief bishop in his Patriarchate; we commemorate quite a few ancient Popes or Rome as saints. Something was going very wrong in the Roman Patriarchate at the end of the first millennium, and in year 1054 communion between Rome and Constantinople (and the rest of Orthodox world) was formally broken. So, no, you did not draw an accurate portrayal of Orthodoxy. I daresay you are also making a very crude and unfair caricature of Roman Catholicism; but then again, I never knew Roman Catholicism from inside. Videographers, and "online Orthodox" in general, might not properly represent what Orthodoxy is; it's very intimate. The cathedral your tried to contact is rather remarkable one, it was founded by bishop John Maximovich, wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, a saint of almost our days, whose relics rest in the crypt under the cathedral. Why don't you ask him to introduce you to his church and his Church? He has died 60 years ago, but that's nothing, God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live unto Him. Their services schedule looks very straightforward: vigil on Saturday afternoon, two Liturgies on Sunday morning; also, Liturgy on most feast days, some preceded by a vigil the night before. I would think after a liturgy on a lesser feast day is a good time to catch a priest to ask some questions.

[@arkrou]

Respectful and civil debates with heretics is not exactly an Orthodox tradition, not sure where you got that from

[@josiahkeen]

What do you advocate that you think Fr. Josiah is discouraging?

[@arkrou]

@@josiahkeen The idea that "respectful and civil debates" means much in the Orthodox tradition. This is modernist thinking. Have you read patristic literature? The arguments were often neither civil nor respectful towards heretics. So what exactly tradition is that ecumenical podcast reviving? It's not the Orthodox tradition that's for sure, so why is Fr. Josiah promoting it so enthusiastically?

[@campomambo]

Just because plenty of other saints did not do so doesn't mean there is only one right way to go about dialoguing with the heterodox. Plenty of saints have had civil debates and discussions with heretics as well. A good example is St Christodoulos the Philosopher.

[@arkrou]

@@campomambo Our Tradition is not defined by one saint. The tradition is not "civil and respsectul debates". Justin Martyr, Iraneus, Hippolytus, John Chrysostom, Eusebius, Athanasius, Basil the Great... do I have to continue? Fr. Josiah should not coopt the Holy Tradition to support whatever weird modernist idea he has for this video. If he wants to have civil and respectful debates with schismatics, he can do as he pleases and answer to God as he knows best, he's a priest and I'm not. But don't tell us this is our Tradition, we're not stupid. This is novelty and modernist.

[@campomambo]

If you would like some more examples than just that one saint, I offer to you St Catherine the Great Martyr and the Holy Apostle Paul both of whom engaged in public debate to convert others to the faith. It really doesn't matter if you can list a lot of saints who did not engage in civil debate. Like I said previously, there are plenty of saints who did. When St Simeon chose the life of a stylite, he was the first to do it, but the holy elders of his day recognized that despite its novelty it was of God. Please be careful not to go condemning things that you don't have certain knowledge of. There are plenty of people that have been guilty of judging holy men out of their own ignorance, like Abp Stephen did with St Symeon the New Theologian.

[@lawrencerockwood7623]

Deliberate infamy,.

[@bayreuth79]

There are no such things as Orthodox Principles of KZbin engagement. Josiah Trenham is giving his personal opinion as to how we should conduct ourselves online; but Josiah Trenham’s opinions are not coterminous with the Orthodox faith. What I find objectionable about such people as Fr Josiah is that they tend to make themselves the official voice of the orthodox faith- but they are not. This is Fr Josiah’s opinion; nothing more.

[@johnsambo9379]

Thank you.